Guelph byelection videos of police debate ouster

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-5082977892897508546&hl=en-CA
is the video taken by my guy on the outside of the hall. It
does give some idea of the loudness. It is the only audio of
me or video with the police. Rogers cut to break when the
cops came onstage. It's not particularly clear but it does
have the only pictures of me and the police right at the
very end.

Monday night started at the Rogers Cable studio where I did
my 2 minute presentation, probably to make up for the two
hours my opponents were about to get later tonight. And then
off to try to get in on the Chamber of Commerce meeting.
Some reports:

Monday, August 25, 2008
All Candidates Tonight!
Adam A. Donaldson
http://guelphbyelectionbeat.blogspot.com/2008/08/all-candidates-tonight.html

AAD: This is the big one tonight boys and girls: the Chamber
of Commerce sponsored All Candidates debate at the River Run
Centre in the Co-Operators Hall. If you can't make it down
to the River Run, then you can tune in to the debate
televised live on Rogers Channel 20 on your cable dial.

The CoC did a survey of the major candidates and posted
their answers on their website. Click the link to find out
what they had to say on the issues important to the Chamber
of Commerce.

JCT: Just like the CoC publicized only the majors, they only
surveyed the majors. The Chamber of Commerce trying to fix
the election odds.
---

Wednesday, August 27, 2008
Old Man Yells At Cloud and Other Stories
http://guelphbyelectionbeat.blogspot.com/2008/08/old-man-yells-at-cloud-and-othe\
r.html
AAD: I taped the all-candidates debate hosted by the Chamber
of Commerce Monday night because I was unable to attend in
person. Apparently I missed the best part when Independent
candidate John Turmel spent the better first 25 minutes of
the debate - oh, how did the Mercury blog put it - "having a
tantrum." Turmel was upset because the debate was limited to
the four main parties. Apparently the whole thing ended with
the Guelph Police escorting the candidate from the Co-
Operators' Hall at the River Run Centre.
But back to the issues,

JCT: Democracy isn't an issue and fighting to uphold my
democratic rights is a tantrum. So says Adam A. Donaldson.
---

Wednesday Aug 27 2008
JCT: There was still one meeting to which the "anti-poverty
engineer" has not been invited: the Guelph Wellington
Coalition for Social Justice and Make Poverty History debate
at Dublin United church. Another confrontation coming up.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-4789545668249618314&hl=en-CA

I parked outside and waited until I'd seen a few other
candidates go in before I went in, not wearing my hard-hat
or party sticker. I sought out the organizers and told one
young man to add a chair to the debate and there'll be no
problem. He said it was already being discussed and he
wanted to do a taped interview for his University of Guelph
radio show. So I gave him the pitch for access to the Bank
of Canada's interest-free source of currency as he followed
me out to the car to get my presentation props.

The meeting was opened to all candidates and Karen Levenson
of Animal & Environmental Rights and Kornelius "Kase"
Klevering of the Marijuana parties were there. Phil Bender,
the Libertarian had not come uninvited. Too bad. Going
uninvited sometimes results in getting invited to try to
score some votes too, a chance someone who does not disrupt
and stays home never gets. I guess the Libertarian figures
they should have the liberty to exclude whom they wish just
like Libertarians figure bank networks should have the
liberty to loanshark new credits to whom they wish!

I turned on the videocamera and pointed it at the audience.
I'm not going to edit it down when I upload it, you'll get
the boring ones with the good stuff.

They were a fun audience and at one point I ended a pretty
interesting answer asking: "You know I was banned from
speaking the other night by the Chamber of Commerce. Is
there anyone here who thinks I should have also been banned
from here tonight?"

And waited, and waited, and then came a few "No"s and I sat
down. Not one person thought I should have been banned and
yet the Mercury reported that the majority of the crowd at
the Chamber of Commerce debate voted that I should be
banned. Sure, the Chamber audience might have been comprised
of fat cats while this audience comprised of people trying
to help the poor. And this audience got a chance to hear my
pitch while the fat cats did not. But the complete absence
of vote to ban by one group compared to an alleged majority
among the city's fat cats still seems incongruous. Did a
majority really vote to ban me from the fat cat debate? How
to catch a lie with stats. Maybe the Engineer can figure it
out.

The complete video has been uploaded to Google so you can
hear what went on for the 1 hour 40 minutes before my
battery conked out. The last 25 minutes I may have on my
audiorecorder.

My intro is at 8:50 minutes in to 11:30. Major points:

They had us all seated at tables beside the lectern and I
wanted to stand to make my presentation. Though the Green
and the Animal Alliance (AA) had spoken to the mikes on the
table, I approached the lectern asking if I could use it.
the moderator said no. The others weren't using it. I said
let them. I want to. But no. I explained: "they say I wave
my hands." So I stood and counted on my stentorian voice to
reach the mike as well as the back of the room.

Turmel: I got into politics on two lines of poetry:
Why represent our wealth with their chips for a fee,
When we can represent our wealth with our chips for free?
Google for "Great Canadian Gambler," "TajProfessor," I come
up but I was the Teaching Assistant of Canada's only
Mathematics of Gambling Course, I figured out that interest
is the reason we're all being kept poor. My elections are to
reprogram the Bank of Canada's computer so we can log on to
borrow what we need interest-free to pay off all our debts
and student loans and after that, all payments go against
principal. They force us to go to the loansharks, the Royal,
the Scotia, the TD and paying interest. I want access to the
Bank of Canada's computer.
Well, after all those elections, I got into the Guinness
Book of Records, but I also got invited to the United
Nations during the United Millennium Assembly.
Remember when all these major politicians were there, the
biggest group of world leaders in history? Well, I was there
too. There's the newspaper showing me with the President of
the US, President of China, Prime Minister of Britain,
Prime Minister of Israel, and John Turmel. And I got to do
the speech on banking. An in the Millennium Declaration, it
says we're going to restructure the global financial
architecture with an alternative time-based currency. So
someday, you're going to be able to log onto the Bank of
Canada's computer, like PayPal, borrow what you need to
settle up all your debts, all payments go against principal,
and you can pay it with cash or with work. it's called the
"Time standard of money." And if you Google for "time
standard of money," I come up because I coined it at the
United Nations. Someday, it isn't going to be only the Gold
standard of money, the stuff standard of money, now the time
standard of money too where people's worth will be their
collateral, not just their stuff. So you've got to do your
homework. Do you want to stay debt slaves all your lives?
Google for "anti poverty engineer," I come up. Or "anti-
poverty software." Do your homework. I'm John The Engineer
Turmel, thank you.

While Kase Klevering was bemoaning the waste of police
enforcing prohibition against a plant, I quipped "Cops and
Gardeners.

I wish I could spend more time transcribing but I'm only
going to give you the points from now on

Question #1:

Why the gap between rich and poor is widening and what would
my policies do to make sure citizens have the means to
house, clothe, and feed themselves.

23:50 Turmel:
Difference between scarcity and poverty....
What causes poverty? Usury, mort-gage, 11 for 10, death-
gamble, same chips chasing less collateral, Shift B
inflation, too much foreclosure. Isaiah 55... credit's okay.
Nehemiah on usury. BoC card, economic freedom with access to
the bank of your state. Pay bake with work. That's how
heaven works... give us today... no debt-chasing heaven.
I'm here to engineer Heaven.

30:35 Turmel:
I respond to Green's statement:
1988 Green Party Economic Platform used to endorse LETS
software. On the Timebanking bandwagon. They could have this
rocket engine powering their platform but someone took it
off their platform. Greens used to propose interest-free
banking as Green and someone took it off.

Question #2:

Carbon Tax? How to protect low-income Canadians?

37:30 Turmel:
Think outside the box. Cut back transport by eliminating
death-gamble export competition. Add the 11th chair so all
survive. Export surpluses. Insane competition to pay 11 when
the banks only loaned us 10.

49:40 Turmel:
In 1993 I went on Parliament Hill with 7 pounds of marijuana
and was charged with possession for the purpose of
trafficking to the Prime Minister. But I got 4000 people's
charges dropped. No lawyer's ever done that and they didn't
even mention my name. But another point is this:
"I was barred from the debate two nights ago, do you think I
should have been barred from the debate tonight? Anybody?"
I think people realized I'd pulled off a coup on the CPAC-
Rogers-Chamber of Commerce gang.

Question #3: Non-profit health care.

59:30 Turmel:
Out of the box again, we need less sick people.
Off the bottle, get on the herbal.
All the cancer deaths and they knew of the studies.
UoSask study says marijuana regrows brain
cells. Alcohol destroys. Destroying cells gives hangover,
regrowing cells feels good. Why I'm so sharp and they're so
dull. Rich people can afford health care, like in the 50s.
Once all are rich... Marijuana threatens industries but
credit lines nullify opposition.

Public question: Why vote Green or NDP,

JCT: It's a fixed question that says "let the Green propound
Green and the NDP propound NDP and no one else may propound
their own but must propound the two I've limited everyone
to. No fair. Right? Fight? I asked to comment. The moderator
couldn't imagine why I'd want to comment to a fixed
question. The questioner again repeated his biased condition
that I explain why to vote for the two he limited us to.

1h:10:00
Turmel: Why vote for them or not. In logic, there's always
the "or not" to be considered.
Neither of these parties has a program to deal with interest
rates. and now that prices are going up, the bankers are
going to have to raise interest rates to businesses to bring
down prices. Interest rate medicine.

The time-keeper decided to stand up and insist I abide by
the biased conditions set out in the question. A point of
order. I was asked Why NDP and Green?

Turmel: A question that excludes everybody but those two, is
that fair.
Questioner: It's my question.
Turmel: Does the questioner have the right to exclude
candidates of his choice.
Questioner: It's my vote and I want you to say which of the
two I should vote for.
Turmel: That isn't fair.

Public Question #2:
Seal hunt.
1h15:10 Turmel Comment:
Why the need, why poaching? They need the money. I can
finance the transition.
We'll have to tackle the cow-hunt next.

Public Question #3:
What vision, integrity and stewardship mean to us.

1h19:20l Turmel:
My vision of an interest-free world... only high-tech
candidate or vision of the others. Anything new? I'll bet.
Google for timebanks. You have the right to suffer.
Cause of poverty is usury. Solution like Guelph LETS can be
relearned.

Public Question #4:
United Nations Millennium Declaration Goal of .7% not met
against World poverty

1h25:30 Turmel:
It's charity. Loansharks or hand-outs. Never in between.
UN C6 for time-based currency someday. 58 countries now.
Argentina went broke but then paid off debts. Didn't make
the news. We could too.

Public Question #5:
Responsibility for reforming welfare and unemployment
insurance

1h34:15 Turmel:
Get rid of welfare and UI and replace with friendly credit.
And if you die negative, it's divvied up over the whole
database like my "pay as you burn, not up front" home fire
insurance. http://www.cyberclass.net/turmel/abprogs.htm

Public Question #6:
Financial Support to the Arts

Turmel:
Arts thrive with populations with jobs. Arts and
restaurants when people have money to spend.

Public Question #7: Domestic violence
Turmel: An interest-free credit card lets them escape. Why
do they stay if not poverty prevents their escape?
Extinction of species, poaching, why? Poverty again. Getting
rid of deathgambles will allow not just the saving of women
and children but also animals.

JCT: Frank Valeriote said he's an expert on family violence,
that I may have the solution to everything else in the world
but that I don't have a clue about why women stay in an abusive
relationship. (Big round of applause)
Turmel: Why then, do they like it?

JCT: Seems everyone is satisfied that there are many reasons
he doesn't have to cite because he's an expert. He responded
about how seriously he takes it.

Turmel: So why do they stay? You said you knew some reasons
(other than poverty) and you haven't given us one. They
don't like it.

JCT: Some people shouted their dismay.
Turmel: He said he had some, he didn't give me one.

Final Statements:
Turmel:
I'll pay Your tax for army and police to handle strife;
I'll pay Your tax for doctors, nurses who protect my life;
I'll pay Your tax for all engaged repairing road and sewer,
I'll pay Your tax for social servants helping out the poor;
I'll even pay Your tax for bureaucrats with no regret;
But I'll object to paying tax for interest on debt.
Every time they talked about not enough money, I pointed out
it was caused by the interest and we can fix it.

You also saw me use all these props, all these gimmicks, to
explain unusual program. Well, a few years ago I was in
Brantford on the Rogers debate and the moderator didn't
like the fact that I had all these entertaining props to
show people. So by the next election, he banned all props,
the Ted Rogers way, boring and grey.
And here's a picture of me showing my little sticker here at
the Rogers debate and the police take me away.
Next week, on the 3rd, Rogers is infecting another debate
with the Mercury. She just called me today to say, hey,
we're doing the Rogers rules, no buttons, no hats, no props,
no flyers, no press clippings, nothing.
I said "really? Then be ready for the same kind of trouble
you got last time."
If I can't turn up my party flyer, if you think you can ban
this, you're going to have the same kind of war they got the
last time. (applause) How dare they ban our buttons? Have
they ever banned your buttons in Guelph before? Right? Or is
this new?

JCT: That was the end. The next morning, I was surprised to
see that I had been put on the front page!

http://news.guelphmercury.com/article/373733
http://media.guelphmercury.com/images/55/60/e98490e045d281e4115454b54006.jpeg
Good, healthy debate
Mainstream, fringe candidates duke it over social justice
issues
August 28, 2008
Rob O'Flanagan Mercury Staff

GUELPH
-Mike Nagy is known for environmentalism, but Guelph's Green
party candidate spoke passionately on social issues during
an all-candidates debate with a social justice focus last
night.

A basement meeting hall at Dublin Street United Church was
packed, hot and heavy with a fiery mood -- a mood that
emanated not only from the candidates, but also from the
audience of about 150, many of them long-standing social
activists. The all-candidates debate was sponsored by the
Guelph/Wellington Coalition for Social Justice and Make
Poverty History.

The preservation of Canada's public health-care system was
foremost on the minds of this segment of Guelph's voting
public.

Independent candidate John Turmel admitted that he used
"props and gimmicks" to get his message across. His plan is
a singular cure-all in which all citizens are given an
interest-free line of credit by the government. Such a move
would effectively eliminate poverty, spur the economy and
solved a host of social problems.

The audience was willing to give Turmel's well-rehearsed
antics the benefit of the doubt initially, but his
repetitiveness eventually wore on their patience. Many booed
him as the night progressed.

Valeriote's ire was raised when Turmel tried to extend his
"interest-free credit card" panacea to the issue of abused
women.

"Why do they stay?" Turmel asked of women who stay in
abusive relationships. "Do they like it? No, it's because of
poverty. They stay because they got no money."

Valeriote, who, as a lawyer, represented many women who were
victims of violence, was visibly offended by Turmel's
comment.

"John, I'm sorry, but you may have the solution to
everything else in the world, but you haven't got a clue
about why women stay." The audience applauded.

Marijuana party candidate Kornelis Klevering proved he was
about more than smoking weed. Klevering defined a vision of
a world run on biofuel, using plants like hemp to generate
energy, and turning the old Guelph Correctional Centre into
a medical marijuana grow operation.
roflanagan@...
---

JCT: So they mention he knew many reasons why women stay but
not that he didn't cite one.

As for people getting bored by the same answer, I'm dealing
with one cause of many symptoms. Those treating each symptom
have a solution to each symptom. I have the same answer to
the one cause. Add money to solve the shortage!

And of course, we have the last word by the Mercury editors:
Phil Andrews and Greg Rothwell:


http://news.guelphmercury.com/article/373724
There's no room for vandals, Bozos

JCT: Always the nasty resorting to calling names. This
sounds like they're seriously upset.

PA&GR: While we're certain voters and candidates here would
be up for the challenge, there are some things that have
occurred here in the past month that we shouldn't endure any
longer.

JCT: Something happened that shouldn't be endured.

PA&GR: Top of the list is the degree of theft and vandalism
of campaign signs we've seen during the byelection cycle.
While all four mainstream parties have been victimized, the
Conservatives and Liberals have been the most aggrieved. And
the most troublesome aspect in this campaign period has been
the introduction of arson into the mix, including the use of
a blowtorch to destroy signs. The campaign staff of the
various candidates have been surprisingly measured in their
comments on whether this vandalism has been orchestrated or
is the efforts of malcontents who would likely be spray-
painting graffiti if they didn't have political candidates
to annoy. It would be nice to think that as Sept. 8
approaches, this insulting, anti-democratic activity will
tail off. But with the prospect that another six or so weeks
of electioneering could soon be upon us, sadly we expect it
will continue.

Just as intolerable as the destruction of campaign property
was the abysmal behaviour of fringe party candidate John
Turmel at an all-candidates forum on Monday night.

JCT: Not the abysmal behaviour of the undemocratic debate
organizers but the abysmal behavior of the victim.

PA&GR: Turmel -- an independent whose sole claim to fame

JCT: I've already pointed out these editors haven't done
very much research before coming to this ill-informed
conclusion. It's better to keep the mouth shut and be
thought ill-informed than to open it and remove all doubt.

PA&GR: seems to be the number of municipal, provincial and
federal campaigns where he's officially been registered as a
candidate -- was escorted from the River Run Centre after he
disrupted for about 25 minutes the televised debate
organized by the Chamber of Commerce.

JCT: I disrupted the meeting rather than just quietly
participate unlike the other candidates who quietly
participated?

PA&GR: His ostensible reason for protest was the fact that
neither he nor the three other fringe candidates had been
invited to participate in the debate.

JCT: My ostensible reason seemed to be the lack of democracy
but my real reason was because I like disrupting.

PA&GR: But when he proudly proclaims how often he's been
ejected from debates in other communities, it's hard to
think he doesn't enjoy making an ass of himself.

JCT: I enjoy making an ass of the organizers of the
undemocratic meeting. The fact I fight for my rights on a
regular basis, whenever the cheats make their moves, is
considered here making an ass of myself.

PA&GR: But he did more than that Monday, when he grabbed one
candidate's water glass and drank from it. It was an
intimidating act and we're glad the police were called to
remove Turmel from the premises.

JCT: Help, police, he took an intimidating sip of water.

PA&GR: We wrote last week that democracy is a big tent with
room to accommodate a variety of voices during an election
campaign. But there's no room for clowns under this big top.

JCT: So they accepted democracy last week though they didn't
like it and this week, they don't accept democracy any more.
I'm called clown for resisting the dictators of the debate.

PA&GR: Turmel fit that bill Monday. The only thing missing
from his pathetic performance was a Bozo nose.

JCT: So, we know for sure the Big Brother ethics of the
Mercury editors influencing the Guelph readership. That
they're reduced to name-calling is fun. These ass-holes
don't even realize what bad air they're passing with their
name-calling of the victim of their media friends'
corruption.
---

Aug 29, 2008
Fringe Candidate Boasts He's Proud of His Ousters
http://www.guelphtribune.ca/news/article/141443

ED: One of the four fringe candidates who weren't invited to
take part in Monday's televised debate spent almost half an
hour haranguing the crowd before he was finally escorted out
by police.

The four main candidates were already seated at a table in
the River Run Centre's Co-operators Hall waiting for the
debate to start when John Turmel suddenly started pacing in
front of them, talking loudly.

"You know, in Brantford the police took me away four times"
from debates where he wasn't invited to participate, he told
the crowd.

"This is going to happen every meeting where I can't go... I
do this every time," said Turmel, a Brantford resident who
is running as an independent in the Guelph byelection. He
said his platform includes "interest-free banking... I want
to get rid of debt slavery."

Some members of the crowd tried to convince him to leave,
and one asked him how he could justify turning the event
into "a three-ring circus."

JCT: It was already a 4-ring circus, I mas making it 8.

ED: Another audience member called for a show of hands about
whether he should be stay. Most people in the crowd voted
for him to go. But Turmel, whose online Wikipedia entry
states that the 57-year-old has unsuccessfully run for
government positions 66 times before now, refused to leave
until four Guelph Police officers arrived at about 7:12 p.m.
- 12 minutes after the scheduled start of the debate. The
Wikipedia entry says Turmel holds the record in the Guinness
Book of Records for participating in and losing the most
elections.

At one point before the scheduled start, debate moderator
and Guelph Chamber of Commerce president Lloyd Longfield
took hold of a square piece of baggage that Turmel had
brought and tried to remove it. Both men ended up tugging at
the baggage, and there was some shoving before Turmel
managed to retrieve it from Longfield.

JCT: Someone broke the censorship and mentioned the fight
over my briefcase. Glad to know who broke it. Maybe I should
ask a Small Claims Court Judge for a new one?

ED: Turmel was eventually joined at the front of the hall by
Karen Levenson, who is running in the local byelection as
the Animal Alliance Environment Voters candidate, and by her
party leader, Liz White. They smiled and nodded as Turmel
kept talking loudly. White told reporters her party is
lodging a complaint with Elections Canada about not being
invited to Monday's debate, on the grounds that the Guelph
Chamber of Commerce is making a "non-monetary contribution"
to the campaigns of the four main candidates by inviting
only them. Two other fringe candidates - Libertarian Philip
Bender and Marijuana Party candidate Kornelis "Kase"
Klevering - are also running in the byelection.

The Guelph Mercury, which is organizing this byelection's
other televised debate along with Rogers Television, has
indicated all eight candidates can take part in its debate
set for Wednesday Sept. 3 from 7-9 p.m. at Guelph Place on
Michener Road. To be accepted by Elections Canada as a
candidate in a riding, there is no need to live there.
However, a candidate needs to get at least 100 signatures
from residents of the riding, said returning officer Anne
Budra. She said her office checks the names listed to ensure
they match up with the addresses listed.
Candidates also need to pay a $1,000 deposit "to sort of
show they are serious about running in the campaign," Budra
said Wednesday.
---

http://www.guelphtribune.ca/news/article/141472
Election fatigue
Editorial
Aug 29, 2008
A jarring presence
Thumbs down to John Turmel for disrupting Monday's televised
byelection debate. A most unfortunate spectacle.

JCT: I guess if I'd have stayed home and accepted being
cheated quietly, I'd have gotten his thumbs up? They are
looking for a guy who'd show leadership by taking their
cheating like a man.
---

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/PrintArticle.aspx?e=1177172
Susan Gamble
A little guy with a lot of luck

JCT: Headline is about another little guy with luck before
getting to me:

SG: He's got to be Canada's quirkiest politician.

Brantford's John Turmel already holds the Guinness World
Record for "most elections contested" but he appears to be
aiming for a new title: "most political debates removed
from."

JCT: Last year, I did send an application to Guinness for
most removals by police in one election. And for Liberal
Dave Levac for having an opponent removed from debating him
four times in one election.

SG: John -- the accordion-playing, poker-winning poet -- was
escorted by police from a debate in Guelph this week. It was
his way of protesting the fact that the debate, hosted by
the Chamber of Commerce and aired by Rogers and CPAC,
shunned independent politicians like Turmel. The debate also
excluded candidates from the Animal Alliance Environment
Voters, the Libertarians and the Marijuana Party. "If they
won't let me participate in an open debate, I'll disrupt
things until I'm put out," says John.

JCT: Actually, I'll protest loudly, which is termed
disruption, but which I term "civil disobedience."

SG: The Guelph byelection is John's 67th election and he's
worried that the prime minister will ruin everything by
calling a general election.

Meanwhile, John's looking into running in the Obama/McCain
contest and -- moving into the realm of fantasy-- the Matt
Santos/Arnold Vinnick election from the television show The
West Wing.

JCT: That's in comparison for Prime Minister of the Planet
vote on the Internet. I've been saving up their issues and
will be dealing with them when McCain is nominated.

SG: He's also busy organizing a rebellion against Rogers'
rules about not allowing candidates to wear party buttons or
use other propaganda. "It's a revolution against the boring
and grey way."

JCT: Against the boring and grey Ted Rogers TV way.

Next is the CJOY-radio (1460) all-candidates debate!