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Probabilistic v Unpredictability   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #14 of 1605 |
Re: [Martha_E_Rogers] Probabilistic v Unpredictability


OK, this backwoods brother will bite.

I tend to agree with Brother Bear's assessment about use of the term
unpredictable. The term does seem to have multi-conceptual use. As an excuse
to not "Scientifically" explore a pattern or phenomenon I would substitute the
concept of "Objectively Unmeasurable". When something cannot be reduced to a
number in an equation or a figure on a graph it is often deemed unworthy of
"Proper Scientific Research". I feel the key word in the last sentence is
"reduce", a concept among Unitary Scientist often considered "Sin" or "Fightin'
Words".

I'm not sure where this discussion began Bear, but it reminds me of defending my
Masters thesis against a panel of die hard, femanist, objective, reductionists.
Oops, my wife will kill me for that one, but it was a traumatic experience. One
lone, younger, male nurse practioner student against all those old........ I
digress. They are all respected friends and know how I like to tease them about
their horror when I presented a Unitary based position to my arguments that none
were prepared to discuss. I passed and survived well for the experience. Back
on topic. When arguments about statistical concepts errupt we usually end up
trying to defend the Unitary perspective. I took the opposite approach and
presented my position from the standpoint that they were using the out-dated
concepts of a paternalistic system that bases worth on objective measurement
with the admitted inability to measure significant phenomena. Without being
condescending I presented an integrated approach
that allowed acknowledgment of the unmeasurable and value to all pattern
manifestations, measureable and unmeasurable. A few of you may have seen my
model back in 1999? at convention.

So, I guess my question would be this. With this discussion are we defending
the Unitary position or exploring the use of statistical concept within the
SUHB?


Any takers?

GURU


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Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:12 pm

kdrn
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Message #14 of 1605 |
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Hi all, We have hit the entirely arbitrary and capricious magical number of 30 members. During our meeting in Savannah we spent a few minutes following ...
bear
tc_spirit
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Dec 8, 2003
7:48 pm

OK, this backwoods brother will bite. I tend to agree with Brother Bear's assessment about use of the term unpredictable. The term does seem to have...
kelly rutherford
kdrn
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Dec 12, 2003
12:22 am

Dear B & G - I'm not sure if this is a bit or a bite, but here goes. Pondering the penchant to dichotomize on unitary phenomenon I wonder why we don't talk...
mahanley
emiehanley
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Dec 12, 2003
6:00 am

Hi all, Glad to see some discussion starting. As i mentioned on the old ls, there is a collection of emails dating back to 1997. It would likely be a big job...
Bear
tc_spirit
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Dec 12, 2003
5:32 pm

Colleagues, Based on the dialogue following my keynote address at the Savannah SRS Conference in November, my understanding is that we are exploring the...
Jacqueline Fawcett
jacquelinefa...
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Dec 12, 2003
11:07 am

Some thouhts that have been swimming around. I checked the OED... as i suspected improbable refers to unlikely in an extreme form. so, for example - the...
bear
tc_spirit
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Dec 13, 2003
6:50 pm

Hi I am not capable of original thought like Bear, so have to depend on throwing in a quote from somebody else, in this case from Thomas Mann's Magic Mountain:...
Francis Biley
sys812000
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Dec 13, 2003
10:30 pm

Good points Fran... I would harken to the consideration that when it comes to inequities of access to or protection from health care services (being mindful of...
bear
tc_spirit
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Dec 13, 2003
11:55 pm

Hi Bear et al, Yes quite right Bear, and I loved the Cat link! As a recent paper on Caring suggested (?author), for all the academic posturing and all that has...
Francis Biley
sys812000
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Dec 14, 2003
10:24 pm

Just a note on Fran's note regarding work on caring..."defining caring" is not what most scholars who study caring in nursing are interested in...what many are...
Savina Schoenhofer
savibus1940
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Dec 14, 2003
11:55 pm

Some tentative definitions related to 'probabilistic', and I note that the OED definitions toward the bottom probably will sustain some deep thought about how...
Bear
tc_spirit
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Dec 15, 2003
1:00 am

Hi, Thank you for your response Savina; which ironically perhaps and as you acknowldege, identifies the heart of the problem. Paley, for it was him...asserted...
Francis Biley
sys812000
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Dec 15, 2003
11:41 am

OOOOOOOOOO... Teacher already giving assignments! Actually, glossary is good idea. With all the multi-definition concepts floating around, a good consensual...
kelly rutherford
kdrn
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Dec 15, 2003
6:03 am

Colleagues, I cannot locate a specific definition that Martha used for probabilistic. Thus, I suggest that we use a dictionary definition. My unabridged...
Jacqueline Fawcett
jacquelinefa...
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Dec 15, 2003
11:44 am

In response to "Transcending" the need for a glossary: I agree that is the "ideal" But, as a student who had just read Martha's works, felt "the call", but...
kelly rutherford
kdrn
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Dec 15, 2003
9:40 pm

Hi Kelly, Yes I very much agree with that, having myself, all of us (?) passed through that puzzlement stage, now I just try to live it rather than try to...
Francis Biley
sys812000
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Dec 15, 2003
10:27 pm

definitely dissertation... am at that stage where i am almost indifferent between revising latest copy and simply burning all known copies. only the question...
bear
tc_spirit
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Dec 15, 2003
10:40 pm

Definitely NOT pretentious Fran. I would say practical. Many things are easier to live than understand. Consider the musician vs the music theorist, etc.......
kelly rutherford
kdrn
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Dec 16, 2003
4:33 am

Colleagues, The idea of improbables is most interesting! Jacqui ... From: mahanley [mailto:mahanley@...] Sent: Fri 12/12/2003 12:59 AM To:...
Jacqueline Fawcett
jacquelinefa...
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Dec 12, 2003
10:12 pm

As an admirer, not a practitioner of SUHB, some thoughts on Jacqui's questions have occurred to me. In reverse order, in re qualitative approaches only:...
Savina Schoenhofer
savibus1940
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Dec 13, 2003
3:19 pm

Colleagues, This comes in response to Bear's thoughts of December 13th regarding unpredictability. I was expecially interested in Bear's comments about...
Jacqueline Fawcett
jacquelinefa...
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Dec 16, 2003
2:21 pm

i would say yes, because what is revealed through the statistical piece is a manifestation of the whole--and represents either experiences, perceptions or...
alison rushing
alison_r0022
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Dec 16, 2003
3:26 pm

I would echo Ali's sentiment - perhaps with an analogy to the cosmos. There is an underlying pattern to the universe which exists as a whole. Among the...
Bear
tc_spirit
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Dec 16, 2003
4:13 pm

bear, i wouldn't "factor out and replace" anything w/ anything--maybe there are multiple universes that co-exist--but they would still be just manifestations...
alison rushing
alison_r0022
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Dec 26, 2003
2:22 am

I recently read "On the Quantum Mechanics of Consciousness, with Application to Anomalous Phenomena" by R. G. Jahn and J. Dunne. I have a particular interest...
Valerie Eschiti
dioptase1
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Dec 16, 2003
4:38 pm

Hi OK, Ive constructed a glossary page at http://medweb.uwcm.ac.uk/martha/ Interested to hear what people think. I had a little trouble trying to seperate out...
Francis Biley
sys812000
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Dec 17, 2003
9:19 am

Colleagues, I finally have had some time to check out what Martha had to say about four-dimensionality. See below. Jacqui Four-Dimensionality “The human...
Jacqueline Fawcett
jacquelinefa...
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Jan 8, 2004
4:34 pm

Re four-dimensionality discussion: In 1994, Martha shared a change - she chose to change four-dimensionality to pandimensionality, saying that the definition,...
A Farren
arlenefarren
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Jan 8, 2004
5:29 pm

Arlene, Thank you for your contribution. Martha did, indeed, change four-dimensionality to pandimensionality. Jacqui ... From: A Farren...
Jacqueline Fawcett
jacquelinefa...
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Jan 10, 2004
8:14 pm

Hi Yes, my initial request for a definition was meant to indicate a bit of irony in asking for a def of four dimensionality, but I think its may be important...
Francis Biley
sys812000
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Jan 10, 2004
11:58 pm
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