>Tracy


Given the number of PhD programs in nursing today (approaching 80) .
. . it is hard to justify why one would seek an advanced degree
outside one's discipline. Few departments in the academy, and rightly
so, consider hiring their own graduates, and fewer consider employing
a faculty member who does not have their advanced degree within the
discipline in which they are prepared to teach and conduct research.
Nursing, for a variety of reasons, has been slow adopt this academic
standard. Historically, there was a time when nurses did not have the
options for doctoral education (very few programs existed). . . and
so to prepare the development of PhD programs and research scientists
. . . nurses were given the opportunity to seek advanced degrees in a
wide variety of fields (i. e. the nurse scientists programs were an
example from the 60s and 70s). Getting a PhD outside of the
discipline within one's imposes other limitations, such as not
bringing a diversity of perspectives when one is educated outside of
the institution they are currently employed.

Howard



>Tracy,
>
>I will endeavor to take a likely unpopular position on this.
>
>Valerie is correct when she states that the preference voiced by nurse
>educators is for a phd in nursing... BUT...
>
>First, are you already at the institution you want to remain at? If so
>and they accept the idea of doing the EdD you will likely not
>experience any loss in a program that will be easier for you to
>complete. That is, if they accept it for tenure and promotion you will
>experience little economic or political advantage in taking an
>arguably more difficult (travel & expense) program...
>
>Second, look at the completion rates for the choices you have. Many
>are called, few are chosen. While you are always an individual and can
>WILL yourself to complete regardless of the experiences of others,
>going through a program with a 10% completion rate v a program with a
>75% completion rate is likely to present a lot of difficult
>challenges. There may be all manner of reasons for the different rates
>of success but it should be an important consideration in your
>decision-making. Doctorate status is different than prolonged doctoral
>student or doctoral candidate status...
>
>Third, do you want to do research and if so in what area? It may or
>may not be important for you to pick one v the other. BUT - it will
>also be important to consider the classes you take - if you load up on
>stats, qual research - options that may not be available because of
>time, cost, and access to a broad variety of classes at the distant
>site - it might hurt you more to do the nursing program and not get
>the research content you would need... Of course, you need to assess
>the ability to do cross-disciplinary courses in each program if this
>is where you want to go.
>
>In general, nursing like social work, tends to focus on perceived
>inadequate market supplies without assessing market demand. Is there a
>nursing shortage - perhaps... Is there a great market demand for
>nurses - not quite so clear. There is certainly a great demand for
>low-cost nursing staff - not such a great demand for higher cost,
>value added nursing staff. So if health care organizations can hire
>nurses cheaply enough to be indifferent to whether they are skilled to
>do more than clerical work, many poorly operated health care
>organizations will hire cheap nurses. It is not at all so clear that
>health care organizations can or do distinguish between nurses at
>different performance levels. Nursing education, in general, would
>have to be demonstrated to behave differently than health care
>organizations before I would act on faith...
>
>Fourth, what are the economic consequences, as best you can forecast
>them? If it will take you more time to complete the nursing program
>there are likely costs associated with that. How long will it take to
>achieve the same relative economic position in the two programs? How
>long do you expect to stay in nursing education? Will there be a
>plateau each way in the future or will there be a point at which the
>benefits of the nursing phd will become far more valuable than the EdD
>program? If you like where you are and are going to plateau at the
>same salary and position level no matter which program you complete -
>it probably makes sense to get there sooner... In short, what is the
>marginal economic and social advantage of the nursing phd at 5, 10,
>15, 20, 30 years from the start of your doctoral program?
>
>In the faculty market the same applies as in the RN environment. Many
>look at the relative paucity of nursing PhDs in education and suggest
>shortages - but many schools are addressing the shortage by hiring
>more non-tenure track MS prepared faculty and faculty from other
>disciplines to fill their faculty positions.
>
>Many schools, for budgetary or political reasons, will hire the lowest
>cost personnel to fill positions - nursing PhDs may not be thrilled
>teaching undergrads and may just be painting themselves into a corner
>where their skills sets are narrow while the skills sets desired by
>academic institutions are fairly broad. If 'teaching' is your primary
>goal - it may be to your advantage to be in an education program where
>there may be more emphasis on teaching expertise - i.e. you will see
>people with good education skills and have many courses that emphasize
>good education skills.
>
>Just on a lark I applied to the community college nursing program in
>FL where I 'live.' one might assume they would be jumping for joy to
>have a nursing phd even apply - that does not appear to be the case. I
>would be highly unlikely to take the position even if offered because
>I do not want to teach in a CC setting - but it is sobering to
>consider that I am likely the only PhD in nursing that even applied
>and to misquote George Tenet - it is not a 'slam dunk.' Demand is very
>different than supply! Of course, they may realize that I would not
>want to stay for very long teaching 3 - 5 classes per semester because
>of 'shortages' in faculty but the same is true in other institutions -
>some schools will find the nursing PhD desirable and some will find it
>undesirable.
>
>I could, of course, go on forever. A small part of the consideration
>should be the collective consciousness among nursing educators that a
>nursing phd is 'obviously' the best answer - but most of your
>attention should be focused on far more pragmatic considerations that
>address your very unique circumstances...
>
>bear
>
>
>--- In Martha_E_Rogers@yahoogroups.com, "Tracy Edwards" <tracy_e@c...>
>wrote:
>> I have a personal question for the group.
>>
>>
>>
>> I want to get my PhD. I have 3 options.
>>
>> 1. PhD in Education through my parent institution of
>where I
>> teach. (1/2 off tuition for faculty)
>>
>> 2. Online PhD in nursing. Focus of the program not
>really in
>> my interest area, but is do-able.
>>
>> 3. Drive a total of 6 hours round trip to the "closest"
>> traditional PhD program to Oklahoma City.
>>
>>
>>
>> If my plans are to remain in some component of nursing education
>(teaching,
>> research, etc), would I be better served by an education PhD or a
>nursing
>> PhD?
>>
>>
>>
>> I am stuck between the Education and Nursing option. I would like
>to hear
>> your opinions on the subject.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Tracy Edwards
>>
>>
>>
>> Ps. Please reply to me @ tracy_e@c... so as to not clog up the group
>> e-mail.
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--

Howard Karl Butcher, RN, PhD, APRN, BC

Assistant Professor John A. Hartford Foundation Building Academic
Geriatric Nursing Capacity Scholar
The University of Iowa College of Nursing
324 Nursing Building
Iowa City, Iowa 52242-1121
howard-butcher@...
www.nursing.uiowa.edu/sites/users/hbutcher/index.htm
(319)-335-7039/Fax (319)-335-9990