I posted some photos and circuit details of the red LED array I recently built
in the "Files" section.

 

I'm new to this group. I found it while researching the use of 670nm red light for wound healing. Also, last September I read an article "LED Light And Green Tea Cream Smooth Facial Wrinkles." (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090909103013.htm )

I told a friend about the article and later built a hand held unit containing 54 5mm 2800MCD red (670 nm) LEDs powered from a 6VDC wall transformer. I gave her the unit to see if it would actually reduce wrinkles using the green tea protocol.

I was wondering if anyone here is using red LED light and green tea for facial wrinkles, or has used red LED light for any other purpose.

Also, I'd be happy to share the circuit and construction details if anyone is interested.

I'm new to this group. I found it while researching the use of 670nm red light
for wound healing. Also, last September I read an article "LED Light And Green
Tea Cream Smooth Facial Wrinkles." 
(http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090909103013.htm )

I told a friend about the article and later built a hand held unit containing 54
5mm 2800MCD  red (670 nm) LEDs powered from a 6VDC wall transformer. I gave her
the unit to see if it would actually reduce wrinkles using the green tea
protocol.

I was wondering if anyone here is using red LED light and green tea for facial
wrinkles, or has used red LED light for any other purpose.

Also, I'd be happy to share the circuit and construction details if anyone is
interested.

--- In LEDeffects@yahoogroups.com, V <lights@...> wrote:
>
> Hi neurowurm,
>
> they have some nice LEDs here as well. A bit pricey however.
>
> http://www.roithner-laser.com/
>
>
>
> Take care,
>  V


Yeah, the shipping from europe is a killer, though.
I bought three of the 850 nm 1 watt LEDs from lightobject.com. One I mounted on
a handle with switch, with a 12 volt 1.25 amp adapter the resistors for the LEDs
are 30 ohm (I used ceramic 10 watters from old TVs). I used a nickel-plated
cabinetry finishing washer (15 cents) which I polished up with Brasso to focus
the beam angle from 160 degrees to maybe 30 degrees. Seems to work great for
brain, pain or Viagral uses.

Hi V,

Well, I tried the Dollar Store laser on my wife's triiger points for 10 minutes.
Didn't do a thing.

Is 5mw too weak, perhaps?  What is the typical ratings on the lasers they use
for stuff like that?  20mw maybe?

-Ken Bagwell

Hi kenancy2000,

depending on what you use it for, yes it will still work, 660 is better but
other colors work also.

Take care,
  V


> Hi V,

> Would a 645nm wavelength red laser still be about as good as a 660?

> I got a cheap $1 laser pen from the Dollar Tree.  645 nm, 5mw.

> -Ken Bagwell



--

Hi V,

Would a 645nm wavelength red laser still be about as good as a 660?

I got a cheap $1 laser pen from the Dollar Tree.  645 nm, 5mw.

-Ken Bagwell

Hi neurowurm,

they have some nice LEDs here as well. A bit pricey however.

http://www.roithner-laser.com/



Take care,
  V


> Going for these. The 3-chip 200 mW (I assume they mean mw/Steradia
> ns) are on another page. 850 nm is 25% less absorbed by water than
> 880 nm (better effects). Yee ha! Woot!

> http://www.lightobject.com/1Watt-850nm-Infrared-IR-LED-P57.aspx

> Btw, I was wondering about putting a beam spreader or diffuser in
> front of the 730 nm laser from a CD burner. Laser diodes and
> especially LEDs are hard to find an expensive between 700 and 800 nm. Any
ideas?





--

Hi neurowurm,

yeah I bought some of these 3 chip ones on ebay as well you can get them on ebay
too 20 pieces for 16 bucks. about the same price.

http://cgi.ebay.com/20x-10mm-Triple-Chip-200mW-Infrared-IR-LED-Night-Vision_W0QQ\
itemZ350257738854QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518cfcf466&_trks\
id=p3286.c0.m14


Well you would have to get a beam spreader that works with infrared. Then how
many mw do you have might be better to ge for the high power LEDs they used on
magnetikon years back.
http://www.optodiode.com/


Take care,
  V


> Going for these. The 3-chip 200 mW (I assume they mean mw/Steradia
> ns) are on another page. 850 nm is 25% less absorbed by water than
> 880 nm (better effects). Yee ha! Woot!

> http://www.lightobject.com/1Watt-850nm-Infrared-IR-LED-P57.aspx

> Btw, I was wondering about putting a beam spreader or diffuser in
> front of the 730 nm laser from a CD burner. Laser diodes and
> especially LEDs are hard to find an expensive between 700 and 800 nm. Any
ideas?





--

Going for these. The 3-chip 200 mW (I assume they mean mw/Steradia ns) are on
another page. 850 nm is 25% less absorbed by water than 880 nm (better effects).
Yee ha! Woot!

http://www.lightobject.com/1Watt-850nm-Infrared-IR-LED-P57.aspx

Btw, I was wondering about putting a beam spreader or diffuser in front of the
730 nm laser from a CD burner. Laser diodes and especially LEDs are hard to find
an expensive between 700 and 800 nm. Any ideas?

--- In LEDeffects@yahoogroups.com, RoseOttoGroups <slpedigo@...> wrote:
>
> Are those messages archived anyplace we can search them?
>
> I have a friend with what the medical people say is a permanent brain
> injury.  His intimates (wife, kids, parents) can tell but most other
> people think he's normal uncles he gets hysterical/stubborn about
> something. He's very accident prone (how do you shoot a nail thru
> fingers on both hands at once?) Seems to be more analytical in doing the
> mechanical things--auto repair, home renovation, ditch digging, fence
> build, etc. They try not to let him do any of it alone because it means
> a trip to the ER. Since the motor to the backhoe blew, there's only
> ladders and electric tools to cause harm now.
>
> Shoot if shining the infrared LED array might help some brain cells be
> restored/healed I'd lend them mine for a few months.
>
> Saralou


It sure does. 880 is good, 850 nm is better. Over the inion, the bony bump at
the back of the skull (cerebellum). Can't say what it will do in the case of
brain injury, though.

Howdy V, How important is the 590nM  yellow frequency , for collegen  production
?  BG Micro has some yellow -greenish LED's at a good price.  Thanks, Frank
Also I'd like to make a portable water purifier foe camping  useing  UV LED's 
BG Micro has  them for $1.49  Thanks

 

Hi RoseOttoGroups,

here is a smart drug tha has been used for stuff like that. its widely available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam

Take care,
V

> Are those messages archived anyplace we can search them?

> I have a friend with what the medical people say is a permanent brain
> injury. His intimates (wife, kids, parents) can tell but most other
> people think he's normal uncles he gets hysterical/stubborn about
> something. He's very accident prone (how do you shoot a nail thru
> fingers on both hands at once?) Seems to be more analytical in doing the
> mechanical things--auto repair, home renovation, ditch digging, fence
> build, etc. They try not to let him do any of it alone because it means
> a trip to the ER. Since the motor to the backhoe blew, there's only
> ladders and electric tools to cause harm now.

> Shoot if shining the infrared LED array might help some brain cells be
> restored/healed I'd lend them mine for a few months.

> Saralou

> V wrote:
>>

>> Hi sol,

>> Actually what I used it for was intelligence increase and only applied
>> it to one part of the brain, the point at the back where the skull
>> stick out the furthest is right over a certain brain part.

>> time of application was about 2 minutes a day sometimes I would go up
>> to 4 but it is recommended to only do it for 2 minutes a day every day
>> and it takes about 3 to 4 weeks to notice the effect. it fact I notice
>> notice it until I used 20 20 hindsight and saw that you had been
>> buying stack of books and reading them due to an avid thirst for
>> knowledge.
>> When you stop do the infrared treatments it gradually fades out.
>> I have made some helmet kits for a couple of others for them to
>> experiment with, only heard back from one that said it may have helped
>> with test scores in school.

>> I was part of a yahoo group that dealt only with this subject and then
>> eventually owned that group. I shut it down after it was no longer
>> active. Still have all the info and messages.

>> Take care,
>> V

>> > V wrote:
>> >> the standard 880 Infrared penetrates into the brain pretty well I
>> have tried it myself with good results a few years ago.

>> --

--

Hi RoseOttoGroups,

here is a smart drug tha has been used for stuff like that. its widely
available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam


Take care,
  V


> Are those messages archived anyplace we can search them?

> I have a friend with what the medical people say is a permanent brain
> injury.  His intimates (wife, kids, parents) can tell but most other
> people think he's normal uncles he gets hysterical/stubborn about
> something. He's very accident prone (how do you shoot a nail thru
> fingers on both hands at once?) Seems to be more analytical in doing the
> mechanical things--auto repair, home renovation, ditch digging, fence
> build, etc. They try not to let him do any of it alone because it means
> a trip to the ER. Since the motor to the backhoe blew, there's only
> ladders and electric tools to cause harm now.

> Shoot if shining the infrared LED array might help some brain cells be
> restored/healed I'd lend them mine for a few months.

> Saralou

> V wrote:
>>

>> Hi sol,

>> Actually what I used it for was intelligence increase and only applied
>> it to one part of the brain, the point at the back where the skull
>> stick out the furthest is right over a certain brain part.

>> time of application was about 2 minutes a day sometimes I would go up
>> to 4 but it is recommended to only do it for 2 minutes a day every day
>> and it takes about 3 to 4 weeks to notice the effect. it fact I notice
>> notice it until I used 20 20 hindsight and saw that you had been
>> buying stack of books and reading them due to an avid thirst for
>> knowledge.
>> When you stop do the infrared treatments it gradually fades out.
>> I have made some helmet kits for a couple of others for them to
>> experiment with, only heard back from one that said it may have helped
>> with test scores in school.

>> I was part of a yahoo group that dealt only with this subject and then
>> eventually owned that group. I shut it down after it was no longer
>> active. Still have all the info and messages.

>> Take care,
>> V

>> > V wrote:
>> >> the standard 880 Infrared penetrates into the brain pretty well I
>> have tried it myself with good results a few years ago.


>> --





--

 

Hi sol,

Actually what I used it for was intelligence increase and only applied it to one part of the brain, the point at the back where the skull stick out the furthest is right over a certain brain part.

time of application was about 2 minutes a day sometimes I would go up to 4 but it is recommended to only do it for 2 minutes a day every day and it takes about 3 to 4 weeks to notice the effect. it fact I notice notice it until I used 20 20 hindsight and saw that you had been buying stack of books and reading them due to an avid thirst for knowledge.
When you stop do the infrared treatments it gradually fades out.
I have made some helmet kits for a couple of others for them to experiment with, only heard back from one that said it may have helped with test scores in school.

I was part of a yahoo group that dealt only with this subject and then eventually owned that group. I shut it down after it was no longer active. Still have all the info and messages.

Take care,
V

> V wrote:
>> the standard 880 Infrared penetrates into the brain pretty well I have tried it myself with good results a few years ago.


--

Hi sol,

Actually what I used it for was intelligence increase and only applied it to one
part of the brain, the point at the back where the skull stick out the furthest
is right over a certain brain part.

time of application was about 2 minutes a day sometimes I would go up to 4 but
it is recommended to only do it for 2 minutes a day every day and it takes about
3 to 4 weeks to notice the effect. it fact I notice notice it until I used 20 20
hindsight and saw that you had been buying stack of books and reading them due
to an avid thirst for knowledge.
When you stop do the infrared treatments it gradually fades out.
I have made some helmet kits for a couple of others for them to experiment with,
only heard back from one that said it may have helped with test scores in
school.

I was part of a yahoo group that dealt only with this subject and then
eventually owned that group. I shut it down after it was no longer active. Still
have all the info and messages.

Take care,
  V


> V wrote:
>> the standard 880 Infrared penetrates into the brain pretty well I have tried
it myself with good results a few years ago.

>>
> Do you mind saying what you used it for, and how many times a day for
> what period of time per treatment, and how long a period did you use it
> (i.e, days, weeks, months)?
> I am wondering if it helps only physical brain conditions?
> thanks,
> sol


--

V wrote:
> the standard 880 Infrared penetrates into the brain pretty well I have tried
it myself with good results a few years ago.
>
>
Do you mind saying what you used it for, and how many times a day for
what period of time per treatment, and how long a period did you use it
(i.e, days, weeks, months)?
I am wondering if it helps only physical brain conditions?
thanks,
sol

the standard 880 Infrared penetrates into the brain pretty well I have tried it
myself with good results a few years ago.

Yeah they made a helmet with 1070nm LEDs in there for the dementia.
I have read about it. Looks pretty good, but the 1070 LEDs I found are very
expensive and have only very low intensity.

Take care,
  V


> I've been reading a lot about LEDs lately and came across a
> discussion on a forum (skin care I think) where a representative of
> Lightstim made some comments about their new anti-ageing product
> which has amber (yellow at 590nm) as well as red and infrared.
> Previous models did not have amber. She said that with the old model
> they had a certain percentage of returns but with the new models the
> returns had gone down to almost nil - meaning it appeared that more
> people found them effective. I know this is a rep talking but I have
> also seen other comments on forums about the amber giving more noticable
results.

> I'm interested in all applications of LEDs, but especially the new
> research into high intensity 1070nm infrared which appears to be
> able to penetrate deep into the brain to reverse dementia. I wonder
> if it would also be useful for gut disbiosis, which is my condition,
> due to mercury poisoning. I could also do with help with the brain
> fog that comes with that! Thought about using standard infrared but
> I'm not sure it would penetrate far enough.

> Nicola


> --- In LEDeffects@yahoogroups.com, "luthierret" <luthierret@...> wrote:

>> I'm new to this group. I have built and/or tried a number of electronic
>> devices in the past. Frequency healing like Royal Rife has proven to do
>> a lot of good. Then I came across a contact who said that he had healed
>> himself of tooth decay. He was to have a root canal, but the
>> orthodontist said that he would have to remove two teeth and part of his
>> jaw. With 660 NM array transmitted with frequencies, he was completely
>> healed.

>> It convinced me, so I started to study. I came across this;


>> Skin Rejuvenation, Collagen Stimulation, Yellow Light, 590-nm
>> The 590 nm wavelength will effectively Photo-Energize and stimulate
>> collagen formation while inhibiting the production of undesirable
>> interstitial collagenase (MMP1), which destroys collagen and reduces
>> skin elasticity. The 590 nm intense LED light (yellow color) achieves
>> the two (2) most desired objectives for skin rejuvenation.

>> 1. Increase and improvement of collagen formation and foundation.

>> 2. Delay of existing collagen breakdown (reduction of MMP1).
>> The increased collagen production capacity of the 590 nm wavelength
>> improves skin texture, smoothness, strength and thickness.

>> I also have a document from a Dr. Haltiwanger on cancer. Haltiwanger
>> states that cancer is a state where the nitrochondria of a cell goes
>> dormant. The mitrochondria is like the main chip on a computer. If it
>> doesn't function the cell doesn't die, it reverts into a primitive
>> state, resembling a fungus or mold. If the mitrochondria is reactivated
>> and/or stimulated, then the cell either recovers or dies.

>> If what V writes below from Dr Dotson is true, then LEDs have some
>> chance of reversing cancer. There is much research to be done.
>> Dick


>> > >> > --- In LEDeffects@yahoogroups.com, V <vzon17@> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > >> >>   Though heat production is responsible for some of the response
>> in "target tissue", most of the effect that one gets with the various
>> types of phototherapy reported is due to direct photoactivation of
>> cells. I have spent several months now collecting and reviewing multiple
>> published articles on low level light therapy - 20-30 years worth -
>> hundreds and hundreds of articles. It most instances, the light source
>> can be anything - laser, LED, incandescent, fluorescent - if it is
>> properly filtered/managed to produce the desired treatment result. We
>> have multiple lasers in our office - excimer, diode, YAG - and multiple
>> LED based devices - Gentlewaves, Max7, numerous prototypes of our own
>> construction. The latter devices have been used for everything from
>> wound healing, to pain relief, to various ophthalmic conditions...
>> >
>> > >> >>   There are all manner of variables, of course, but the response
>> of biologic cells is amazingly constant to certain wavelengths (red and
>> near IR = most common active wavelengths - thought, others are also
>> active for various things) and power levels (typically 1-4 J/cm2, rarely
>> higher levels in the 7-9 J/cm2 may give added benefit). There is almost
>> no added benefit to laser light sources over LED, for instance, except
>> for higher power levels which can translate into shorter treatment times
>> and - maybe - deeper penetration in some tissue. Polarized light sources
>> come close to matching laser sources in many instances. There seems to
>> be little benefit between pulsed or continuous wave sources in most
>> applications. Multiple different wavelengths may be of benefit in some
>> applications.
>> >
>> > >> >>   We can assert these things about photobiomodulation (the most
>> proper term for what we are attempting to do) - with the proper light
>> therapy "code" we can get:
>> >
>> > >> >>   *Mitochondrial activation
>> > >> >>   *Non-mitochondrial activation (cell walls, cytoplasm)
>> >
>> > >> >>   *Some common photoacceptor  molecules are: nnHemoglobin,
>> nMyoglobin, nCytochrome c oxidase, nNADH-dehydrogenase
>> >
>> > >> >>   *Gene UP-regulation (nIntegrins, nidogens, laminin, actin,
>> kinesin motor proteins, semaphorins/collapsins)
>> >
>> > >> >>   *Gene DOWN-regulation (nCytokine receptors: nInterleukin-1,
>> interleukin-10, macrophage inflammatory protein-2; nProapoptotic
>> proteins:nApoptosis activator Harikiri (HRK), programmed cell death1
>> protein precursor (PDCD-1; PD-1), receptor-interacting protein (RIP)
>> >
>> > >> >>   n*ATP production can be increased/decreased
>> >
>> > >> >>   n*DNA/RNA production can be increased/decreased
>> > >> >>   n*Cells "re-set" genetically to be more "normal"
>> > >> >>   n*Cell proliferation can be increased/decreased
>> > >> >>   n*Cell adhesiveness can be increased/decreased
>> > >> >>   n*Pathogens can be killed
>> > >> >>   n*Bone growth can be stimulated
>> > >> >>   *Pain can be reduced (as effective as NSAIDS)
>> > >> >>   n*MMP enzymes can be down-regulated
>> > >> >>   *nFibroblasts can be increased - numbers and activity
>> > >> >>   n*ECM can be increased
>> > >> >>   n*Neuro-protection and neuro-regeneration
>> > >> >>   n*Bioregulatory/hormonal systems can be modulated
>> > >> >>   n*Mental states/conditions can be modulated
>> > >> >>   n*Protection against toxins - chemical, radiation
>> > >> >>   n*Blood flow can be increased
>> > >> >>   n*Tissue swelling can be reduced
>> > >> >>   *nVEGF can be down-regulated
>> > >> >>   n*Collagen and pro-collagen promoted
>> > >> >>   n*Angiogenesis promoted
>> > >> >>   n*Macrophage activity can be increased/decreased
>> > >> >>   n*Lymphocvte activity can be increased/decreased
>> > >> >>   n*Apoptosis decreased
>> > >> >>   n*Production of Growth Factors promoted - such as  nKGF
>> (Keratinocyte), nTGF (Transforming), nPDGF (Platelet-derived)
>> >
>> > >> >>   nWhat does this mean? Proven.
>> > >> >>   n*Significant reductions in healing times (50-80%)
>> > >> >>   n*Significant improvement in wound strength (nSoft tissue and
>> bone)
>> > >> >>   n*Improved bone to implant adhesion
>> > >> >>   n*Significant reductions in pain (as effective as oral NSAIDs)
>> > >> >>   n*Significant temporal effects (up to months)
>> > >> >>   When one hears claims about the superiority of one particular
>> device, one needs to be very careful about falling for sales hype. One
>> can achieve similar therapeutic results with a wide array of devices, I
>> believe. The wattage of a particular laser is really a "so what" and
>> often translates into nothing more than "I've got a bigger you-know-what
>> than you do!" Unless, a company can produce real, supportive research
>> data that is independly verified, then all claims are suspect.
>> >
>> > >> >>   The photobio effect of low level light is tremendously
>> powerful if it is the right "dose" (wavelength, power, etc.). One FDA
>> approved device, for instance, the Gentlewaves by Light Bioscience, is a
>> double panel of 590nm yellow LEDs. It emits about 0.1J/cm2 (!) in its 40
>> second treatment time. 8 of these treatments over one month will result
>> in visible wrinkle reduction and obvious skin rejuvenation. The effect
>> continues for 6-12 months! This treatment is proven to reduce
>> inflammation (the MMP cascade), reduce collagenase production (what
>> gives us wrinkles), and switches on new collagen production. We have had
>> one in my office for nearly three years and it is very real
>> >
>> > >> >>   Hopefully some of this will be of help to a few out there. I
>> just don't know how productive it is to endlessly debate the power
>> output or superiority of some particular "laser" device. ...And, we are
>> not just after heat generation - therefore, do not need microwave or u/s
>> devices!
>> >
>> > >> >>   Robert S. Dotson, M.D.
>> > >> >>   Refractive Surgery Center
>> > >> >>   Oak Ridge, Tennessee
>> > >> >>   USA
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >> --
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >





--

I've been reading a lot about LEDs lately and came across a discussion on a
forum (skin care I think) where a representative of Lightstim made some comments
about their new anti-ageing product which has amber (yellow at 590nm) as well as
red and infrared. Previous models did not have amber. She said that with the old
model they had a certain percentage of returns but with the new models the
returns had gone down to almost nil - meaning it appeared that more people found
them effective. I know this is a rep talking but I have also seen other comments
on forums about the amber giving more noticable results.

I'm interested in all applications of LEDs, but especially the new research into
high intensity 1070nm infrared which appears to be able to penetrate deep into
the brain to reverse dementia. I wonder if it would also be useful for gut
disbiosis, which is my condition, due to mercury poisoning. I could also do with
help with the brain fog that comes with that! Thought about using standard
infrared but I'm not sure it would penetrate far enough.

Nicola


--- In LEDeffects@yahoogroups.com, "luthierret" <luthierret@...> wrote:
>
> I'm new to this group. I have built and/or tried a number of electronic
> devices in the past. Frequency healing like Royal Rife has proven to do
> a lot of good. Then I came across a contact who said that he had healed
> himself of tooth decay. He was to have a root canal, but the
> orthodontist said that he would have to remove two teeth and part of his
> jaw. With 660 NM array transmitted with frequencies, he was completely
> healed.
>
> It convinced me, so I started to study. I came across this;
>
>
> Skin Rejuvenation, Collagen Stimulation, Yellow Light, 590-nm
> The 590 nm wavelength will effectively Photo-Energize and stimulate
> collagen formation while inhibiting the production of undesirable
> interstitial collagenase (MMP1), which destroys collagen and reduces
> skin elasticity. The 590 nm intense LED light (yellow color) achieves
> the two (2) most desired objectives for skin rejuvenation.
>
> 1. Increase and improvement of collagen formation and foundation.
>
> 2. Delay of existing collagen breakdown (reduction of MMP1).
> The increased collagen production capacity of the 590 nm wavelength
> improves skin texture, smoothness, strength and thickness.
>
> I also have a document from a Dr. Haltiwanger on cancer. Haltiwanger
> states that cancer is a state where the nitrochondria of a cell goes
> dormant. The mitrochondria is like the main chip on a computer. If it
> doesn't function the cell doesn't die, it reverts into a primitive
> state, resembling a fungus or mold. If the mitrochondria is reactivated
> and/or stimulated, then the cell either recovers or dies.
>
> If what V writes below from Dr Dotson is true, then LEDs have some
> chance of reversing cancer. There is much research to be done.
> Dick
>
>
> > >> > --- In LEDeffects@yahoogroups.com, V <vzon17@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >> >>   Though heat production is responsible for some of the response
> in "target tissue", most of the effect that one gets with the various
> types of phototherapy reported is due to direct photoactivation of
> cells. I have spent several months now collecting and reviewing multiple
> published articles on low level light therapy - 20-30 years worth -
> hundreds and hundreds of articles. It most instances, the light source
> can be anything - laser, LED, incandescent, fluorescent - if it is
> properly filtered/managed to produce the desired treatment result. We
> have multiple lasers in our office - excimer, diode, YAG - and multiple
> LED based devices - Gentlewaves, Max7, numerous prototypes of our own
> construction. The latter devices have been used for everything from
> wound healing, to pain relief, to various ophthalmic conditions...
> >
> > >> >>   There are all manner of variables, of course, but the response
> of biologic cells is amazingly constant to certain wavelengths (red and
> near IR = most common active wavelengths - thought, others are also
> active for various things) and power levels (typically 1-4 J/cm2, rarely
> higher levels in the 7-9 J/cm2 may give added benefit). There is almost
> no added benefit to laser light sources over LED, for instance, except
> for higher power levels which can translate into shorter treatment times
> and - maybe - deeper penetration in some tissue. Polarized light sources
> come close to matching laser sources in many instances. There seems to
> be little benefit between pulsed or continuous wave sources in most
> applications. Multiple different wavelengths may be of benefit in some
> applications.
> >
> > >> >>   We can assert these things about photobiomodulation (the most
> proper term for what we are attempting to do) - with the proper light
> therapy "code" we can get:
> >
> > >> >>   *Mitochondrial activation
> > >> >>   *Non-mitochondrial activation (cell walls, cytoplasm)
> >
> > >> >>   *Some common photoacceptor  molecules are: nnHemoglobin,
> nMyoglobin, nCytochrome c oxidase, nNADH-dehydrogenase
> >
> > >> >>   *Gene UP-regulation (nIntegrins, nidogens, laminin, actin,
> kinesin motor proteins, semaphorins/collapsins)
> >
> > >> >>   *Gene DOWN-regulation (nCytokine receptors: nInterleukin-1,
> interleukin-10, macrophage inflammatory protein-2; nProapoptotic
> proteins:nApoptosis activator Harikiri (HRK), programmed cell death1
> protein precursor (PDCD-1; PD-1), receptor-interacting protein (RIP)
> >
> > >> >>   n*ATP production can be increased/decreased
> >
> > >> >>   n*DNA/RNA production can be increased/decreased
> > >> >>   n*Cells "re-set" genetically to be more "normal"
> > >> >>   n*Cell proliferation can be increased/decreased
> > >> >>   n*Cell adhesiveness can be increased/decreased
> > >> >>   n*Pathogens can be killed
> > >> >>   n*Bone growth can be stimulated
> > >> >>   *Pain can be reduced (as effective as NSAIDS)
> > >> >>   n*MMP enzymes can be down-regulated
> > >> >>   *nFibroblasts can be increased - numbers and activity
> > >> >>   n*ECM can be increased
> > >> >>   n*Neuro-protection and neuro-regeneration
> > >> >>   n*Bioregulatory/hormonal systems can be modulated
> > >> >>   n*Mental states/conditions can be modulated
> > >> >>   n*Protection against toxins - chemical, radiation
> > >> >>   n*Blood flow can be increased
> > >> >>   n*Tissue swelling can be reduced
> > >> >>   *nVEGF can be down-regulated
> > >> >>   n*Collagen and pro-collagen promoted
> > >> >>   n*Angiogenesis promoted
> > >> >>   n*Macrophage activity can be increased/decreased
> > >> >>   n*Lymphocvte activity can be increased/decreased
> > >> >>   n*Apoptosis decreased
> > >> >>   n*Production of Growth Factors promoted - such as  nKGF
> (Keratinocyte), nTGF (Transforming), nPDGF (Platelet-derived)
> >
> > >> >>   nWhat does this mean? Proven.
> > >> >>   n*Significant reductions in healing times (50-80%)
> > >> >>   n*Significant improvement in wound strength (nSoft tissue and
> bone)
> > >> >>   n*Improved bone to implant adhesion
> > >> >>   n*Significant reductions in pain (as effective as oral NSAIDs)
> > >> >>   n*Significant temporal effects (up to months)
> > >> >>   When one hears claims about the superiority of one particular
> device, one needs to be very careful about falling for sales hype. One
> can achieve similar therapeutic results with a wide array of devices, I
> believe. The wattage of a particular laser is really a "so what" and
> often translates into nothing more than "I've got a bigger you-know-what
> than you do!" Unless, a company can produce real, supportive research
> data that is independly verified, then all claims are suspect.
> >
> > >> >>   The photobio effect of low level light is tremendously
> powerful if it is the right "dose" (wavelength, power, etc.). One FDA
> approved device, for instance, the Gentlewaves by Light Bioscience, is a
> double panel of 590nm yellow LEDs. It emits about 0.1J/cm2 (!) in its 40
> second treatment time. 8 of these treatments over one month will result
> in visible wrinkle reduction and obvious skin rejuvenation. The effect
> continues for 6-12 months! This treatment is proven to reduce
> inflammation (the MMP cascade), reduce collagenase production (what
> gives us wrinkles), and switches on new collagen production. We have had
> one in my office for nearly three years and it is very real
> >
> > >> >>   Hopefully some of this will be of help to a few out there. I
> just don't know how productive it is to endlessly debate the power
> output or superiority of some particular "laser" device. ...And, we are
> not just after heat generation - therefore, do not need microwave or u/s
> devices!
> >
> > >> >>   Robert S. Dotson, M.D.
> > >> >>   Refractive Surgery Center
> > >> >>   Oak Ridge, Tennessee
> > >> >>   USA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >> --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
>

Skin Rejuvenation, Collagen Stimulation, Yellow Light, 590-nm
The 590 nm wavelength will effectively Photo-Energize and stimulate collagen formation while inhibiting the production of undesirable interstitial collagenase (MMP1), which destroys collagen and reduces skin elasticity. The 590 nm intense LED light (yellow color) achieves the two (2) most desired objectives for skin rejuvenation.

1. Increase and improvement of collagen formation and foundation.

2. Delay of existing collagen breakdown (reduction of MMP1).

Hi sol,

Actually i don't know if either will help eczema or hives, you would have to try
it to see. Have not read anything on that use. I am not a medical person and
have to do my research on the net to find out those answers.

I am not saying it does not work on a trigger point. there are some companies
the use LED wands with single or multiple LEDs on the tip for healing by putting
certain frequencies on points on the body. so it seems they would work as well.
If you know what you are doing. Also you can go higher in power level with a
laser but I don't know if that matters in some cases. I am not a health
practitioner in  anyway so I can't say.


Take care,
  V


> V wrote:
>> Red 660 speeds up healing

>> infrared 880 increases circulation relieves pain

>>
> Do either one of the above help eczema or hives?
> And are you saying that they cannot help trigger points?
> thanks,
> sol


--

Well the treatment time for lasers is important and depends on the laser and I
don't know what the times are. Too much can be a problem with a laser.

I don't sell lasers because they are a lot more difficult and expensive to make
than LEDs and they only treat one tiny spot at a time.

the leds can treat a larger area at one time so its more convenient for many
applications. laser are good for some things that LEDs won't do also.

Take care,
  V


> If it's not inconvenient, that would be awesome.

> Do you happen to know if a stronger laser, say 10-20 mw, reduces
> the amount of treatment time, or is it dangerous to use something much higher
than 5mw?

> Any reason you don't sell lasers?

> -Ken Bagwell

> P.S.  I guess I need to find out if home treatment with a laser pen
> is actually safe or not.  I read somewhere that if one points the
> laser too far away from the trigger point itself, one can cause
> damage.  Got me some lernin' to do.


> --- In LEDeffects@yahoogroups.com, V <lights@...> wrote:

>> Hi ken,

>> Well i don't sell those lasers but if you got a high quality laser pointer
that has equal to or greater than 5 mw output then that would be good. I can
track one down online if you like.

>> Take care,
>>  V


>> > Hi V,

>> > Is there a red laser light available that can penetrate a trigger point in
a muscle?

>> > My wife has ever-present trigger points in her neck, and I read
>> > below that lasers can penetrate deeper than an LED.  Since these
>> > trigger points are well under the skin layers, I thought maybe a
>> > laser light of the proper wavelength might be helpful for a muscle
>> > that has a trigger point in it (both for pain, nd possibly for healing).

>> > Do you sell those, or know someone who does?  If not, can you give me some
advice?

>> > I'm still interested in buying LED array of yours for hair growth,
>> > though.  So this post if a different issue.

>> > -Ken Bagwell

>> > --- In LEDeffects@yahoogroups.com, V <vzon17@> wrote:


>> >>   Though heat production is responsible for some of the response in
"target tissue", most of the effect that one gets with the various types of
phototherapy reported is due to direct photoactivation of cells. I have spent
several months now collecting and reviewing multiple published articles on low
level light therapy - 20-30 years worth - hundreds and hundreds of articles. It
most instances, the light source can be anything - laser, LED, incandescent,
fluorescent - if it is properly filtered/managed to produce the desired
treatment result. We have multiple lasers in our office - excimer, diode, YAG -
and multiple LED based devices - Gentlewaves, Max7, numerous prototypes of our
own construction. The latter devices have been used for everything from wound
healing, to pain relief, to various ophthalmic conditions...

>> >>   There are all manner of variables, of course, but the response of
biologic cells is amazingly constant to certain wavelengths (red and near IR =
most common active wavelengths - thought, others are also active for various
things) and power levels (typically 1-4 J/cm2, rarely higher levels in the 7-9
J/cm2 may give added benefit). There is almost no added benefit to laser light
sources over LED, for instance, except for higher power levels which can
translate into shorter treatment times and - maybe - deeper penetration in some
tissue. Polarized light sources come close to matching laser sources in many
instances. There seems to be little benefit between pulsed or continuous wave
sources in most applications. Multiple different wavelengths may be of benefit
in some applications.

>> >>   We can assert these things about photobiomodulation (the most proper
term for what we are attempting to do) - with the proper light therapy "code" we
can get:

>> >>   *Mitochondrial activation
>> >>   *Non-mitochondrial activation (cell walls, cytoplasm)

>> >>   *Some common photoacceptor  molecules are: nnHemoglobin, nMyoglobin,
nCytochrome c oxidase, nNADH-dehydrogenase

>> >>   *Gene UP-regulation (nIntegrins, nidogens, laminin, actin, kinesin motor
proteins, semaphorins/collapsins)

>> >>   *Gene DOWN-regulation (nCytokine receptors: nInterleukin-1,
interleukin-10, macrophage inflammatory protein-2; nProapoptotic
proteins:nApoptosis activator Harikiri (HRK), programmed cell death1 protein
precursor (PDCD-1; PD-1), receptor-interacting protein (RIP)

>> >>   n*ATP production can be increased/decreased

>> >>   n*DNA/RNA production can be increased/decreased
>> >>   n*Cells "re-set" genetically to be more "normal"
>> >>   n*Cell proliferation can be increased/decreased
>> >>   n*Cell adhesiveness can be increased/decreased
>> >>   n*Pathogens can be killed
>> >>   n*Bone growth can be stimulated
>> >>   *Pain can be reduced (as effective as NSAIDS)
>> >>   n*MMP enzymes can be down-regulated
>> >>   *nFibroblasts can be increased - numbers and activity
>> >>   n*ECM can be increased
>> >>   n*Neuro-protection and neuro-regeneration
>> >>   n*Bioregulatory/hormonal systems can be modulated
>> >>   n*Mental states/conditions can be modulated
>> >>   n*Protection against toxins - chemical, radiation
>> >>   n*Blood flow can be increased
>> >>   n*Tissue swelling can be reduced
>> >>   *nVEGF can be down-regulated
>> >>   n*Collagen and pro-collagen promoted
>> >>   n*Angiogenesis promoted
>> >>   n*Macrophage activity can be increased/decreased
>> >>   n*Lymphocvte activity can be increased/decreased
>> >>   n*Apoptosis decreased
>> >>   n*Production of Growth Factors promoted - such as  nKGF (Keratinocyte),
nTGF (Transforming), nPDGF (Platelet-derived)

>> >>   nWhat does this mean? Proven.
>> >>   n*Significant reductions in healing times (50-80%)
>> >>   n*Significant improvement in wound strength (nSoft tissue and bone)
>> >>   n*Improved bone to implant adhesion
>> >>   n*Significant reductions in pain (as effective as oral NSAIDs)
>> >>   n*Significant temporal effects (up to months)
>> >>   When one hears claims about the superiority of one particular device,
one needs to be very careful about falling for sales hype. One can achieve
similar therapeutic results with a wide array of devices, I believe. The wattage
of a particular laser is really a "so what" and often translates into nothing
more than "I've got a bigger you-know-what than you do!" Unless, a company can
produce real, supportive research data that is independly verified, then all
claims are suspect.

>> >>   The photobio effect of low level light is tremendously powerful if it is
the right "dose" (wavelength, power, etc.). One FDA approved device, for
instance, the Gentlewaves by Light Bioscience, is a double panel of 590nm yellow
LEDs. It emits about 0.1J/cm2 (!) in its 40 second treatment time. 8 of these
treatments over one month will result in visible wrinkle reduction and obvious
skin rejuvenation. The effect continues for 6-12 months! This treatment is
proven to reduce inflammation (the MMP cascade), reduce collagenase production
(what gives us wrinkles), and switches on new collagen production. We have had
one in my office for nearly three years and it is very real

>> >>   Hopefully some of this will be of help to a few out there. I just don't
know how productive it is to endlessly debate the power output or superiority of
some particular "laser" device. ...And, we are not just after heat generation -
therefore, do not need microwave or u/s devices!

>> >>   Robert S. Dotson, M.D.
>> >>   Refractive Surgery Center
>> >>   Oak Ridge, Tennessee
>> >>   USA





>> --





--

V wrote:
> Red 660 speeds up healing
>
> infrared 880 increases circulation relieves pain
>
>
Do either one of the above help eczema or hives?
And are you saying that they cannot help trigger points?
thanks,
sol

If it's not inconvenient, that would be awesome.

Do you happen to know if a stronger laser, say 10-20 mw, reduces the amount of
treatment time, or is it dangerous to use something much higher than 5mw?

Any reason you don't sell lasers?

-Ken Bagwell

P.S.  I guess I need to find out if home treatment with a laser pen is actually
safe or not.  I read somewhere that if one points the laser too far away from
the trigger point itself, one can cause damage.  Got me some lernin' to do.


--- In LEDeffects@yahoogroups.com, V <lights@...> wrote:
>
> Hi ken,
>
> Well i don't sell those lasers but if you got a high quality laser pointer
that has equal to or greater than 5 mw output then that would be good. I can
track one down online if you like.
>
> Take care,
>  V
>
>
> > Hi V,
>
> > Is there a red laser light available that can penetrate a trigger point in a
muscle?
>
> > My wife has ever-present trigger points in her neck, and I read
> > below that lasers can penetrate deeper than an LED.  Since these
> > trigger points are well under the skin layers, I thought maybe a
> > laser light of the proper wavelength might be helpful for a muscle
> > that has a trigger point in it (both for pain, nd possibly for healing).
>
> > Do you sell those, or know someone who does?  If not, can you give me some
advice?
>
> > I'm still interested in buying LED array of yours for hair growth,
> > though.  So this post if a different issue.
>
> > -Ken Bagwell
>
> > --- In LEDeffects@yahoogroups.com, V <vzon17@> wrote:
>
>
> >>   Though heat production is responsible for some of the response in "target
tissue", most of the effect that one gets with the various types of phototherapy
reported is due to direct photoactivation of cells. I have spent several months
now collecting and reviewing multiple published articles on low level light
therapy - 20-30 years worth - hundreds and hundreds of articles. It most
instances, the light source can be anything - laser, LED, incandescent,
fluorescent - if it is properly filtered/managed to produce the desired
treatment result. We have multiple lasers in our office - excimer, diode, YAG -
and multiple LED based devices - Gentlewaves, Max7, numerous prototypes of our
own construction. The latter devices have been used for everything from wound
healing, to pain relief, to various ophthalmic conditions...
>
> >>   There are all manner of variables, of course, but the response of
biologic cells is amazingly constant to certain wavelengths (red and near IR =
most common active wavelengths - thought, others are also active for various
things) and power levels (typically 1-4 J/cm2, rarely higher levels in the 7-9
J/cm2 may give added benefit). There is almost no added benefit to laser light
sources over LED, for instance, except for higher power levels which can
translate into shorter treatment times and - maybe - deeper penetration in some
tissue. Polarized light sources come close to matching laser sources in many
instances. There seems to be little benefit between pulsed or continuous wave
sources in most applications. Multiple different wavelengths may be of benefit
in some applications.
>
> >>   We can assert these things about photobiomodulation (the most proper term
for what we are attempting to do) - with the proper light therapy "code" we can
get:
>
> >>   *Mitochondrial activation
> >>   *Non-mitochondrial activation (cell walls, cytoplasm)
>
> >>   *Some common photoacceptor  molecules are: nnHemoglobin, nMyoglobin,
nCytochrome c oxidase, nNADH-dehydrogenase
>
> >>   *Gene UP-regulation (nIntegrins, nidogens, laminin, actin, kinesin motor
proteins, semaphorins/collapsins)
>
> >>   *Gene DOWN-regulation (nCytokine receptors: nInterleukin-1,
interleukin-10, macrophage inflammatory protein-2; nProapoptotic
proteins:nApoptosis activator Harikiri (HRK), programmed cell death1 protein
precursor (PDCD-1; PD-1), receptor-interacting protein (RIP)
>
> >>   n*ATP production can be increased/decreased
>
> >>   n*DNA/RNA production can be increased/decreased
> >>   n*Cells "re-set" genetically to be more "normal"
> >>   n*Cell proliferation can be increased/decreased
> >>   n*Cell adhesiveness can be increased/decreased
> >>   n*Pathogens can be killed
> >>   n*Bone growth can be stimulated
> >>   *Pain can be reduced (as effective as NSAIDS)
> >>   n*MMP enzymes can be down-regulated
> >>   *nFibroblasts can be increased - numbers and activity
> >>   n*ECM can be increased
> >>   n*Neuro-protection and neuro-regeneration
> >>   n*Bioregulatory/hormonal systems can be modulated
> >>   n*Mental states/conditions can be modulated
> >>   n*Protection against toxins - chemical, radiation
> >>   n*Blood flow can be increased
> >>   n*Tissue swelling can be reduced
> >>   *nVEGF can be down-regulated
> >>   n*Collagen and pro-collagen promoted
> >>   n*Angiogenesis promoted
> >>   n*Macrophage activity can be increased/decreased
> >>   n*Lymphocvte activity can be increased/decreased
> >>   n*Apoptosis decreased
> >>   n*Production of Growth Factors promoted - such as  nKGF (Keratinocyte),
nTGF (Transforming), nPDGF (Platelet-derived)
>
> >>   nWhat does this mean? Proven.
> >>   n*Significant reductions in healing times (50-80%)
> >>   n*Significant improvement in wound strength (nSoft tissue and bone)
> >>   n*Improved bone to implant adhesion
> >>   n*Significant reductions in pain (as effective as oral NSAIDs)
> >>   n*Significant temporal effects (up to months)
> >>   When one hears claims about the superiority of one particular device, one
needs to be very careful about falling for sales hype. One can achieve similar
therapeutic results with a wide array of devices, I believe. The wattage of a
particular laser is really a "so what" and often translates into nothing more
than "I've got a bigger you-know-what than you do!" Unless, a company can
produce real, supportive research data that is independly verified, then all
claims are suspect.
>
> >>   The photobio effect of low level light is tremendously powerful if it is
the right "dose" (wavelength, power, etc.). One FDA approved device, for
instance, the Gentlewaves by Light Bioscience, is a double panel of 590nm yellow
LEDs. It emits about 0.1J/cm2 (!) in its 40 second treatment time. 8 of these
treatments over one month will result in visible wrinkle reduction and obvious
skin rejuvenation. The effect continues for 6-12 months! This treatment is
proven to reduce inflammation (the MMP cascade), reduce collagenase production
(what gives us wrinkles), and switches on new collagen production. We have had
one in my office for nearly three years and it is very real
>
> >>   Hopefully some of this will be of help to a few out there. I just don't
know how productive it is to endlessly debate the power output or superiority of
some particular "laser" device. ...And, we are not just after heat generation -
therefore, do not need microwave or u/s devices!
>
> >>   Robert S. Dotson, M.D.
> >>   Refractive Surgery Center
> >>   Oak Ridge, Tennessee
> >>   USA
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>

Hi ken,

Well i don't sell those lasers but if you got a high quality laser pointer that
has equal to or greater than 5 mw output then that would be good. I can track
one down online if you like.

Take care,
  V


> Hi V,

> Is there a red laser light available that can penetrate a trigger point in a
muscle?

> My wife has ever-present trigger points in her neck, and I read
> below that lasers can penetrate deeper than an LED.  Since these
> trigger points are well under the skin layers, I thought maybe a
> laser light of the proper wavelength might be helpful for a muscle
> that has a trigger point in it (both for pain, nd possibly for healing).

> Do you sell those, or know someone who does?  If not, can you give me some
advice?

> I'm still interested in buying LED array of yours for hair growth,
> though.  So this post if a different issue.

> -Ken Bagwell

> --- In LEDeffects@yahoogroups.com, V <vzon17@...> wrote:


>>   Though heat production is responsible for some of the response in "target
tissue", most of the effect that one gets with the various types of phototherapy
reported is due to direct photoactivation of cells. I have spent several months
now collecting and reviewing multiple published articles on low level light
therapy - 20-30 years worth - hundreds and hundreds of articles. It most
instances, the light source can be anything - laser, LED, incandescent,
fluorescent - if it is properly filtered/managed to produce the desired
treatment result. We have multiple lasers in our office - excimer, diode, YAG -
and multiple LED based devices - Gentlewaves, Max7, numerous prototypes of our
own construction. The latter devices have been used for everything from wound
healing, to pain relief, to various ophthalmic conditions...

>>   There are all manner of variables, of course, but the response of biologic
cells is amazingly constant to certain wavelengths (red and near IR = most
common active wavelengths - thought, others are also active for various things)
and power levels (typically 1-4 J/cm2, rarely higher levels in the 7-9 J/cm2 may
give added benefit). There is almost no added benefit to laser light sources
over LED, for instance, except for higher power levels which can translate into
shorter treatment times and - maybe - deeper penetration in some tissue.
Polarized light sources come close to matching laser sources in many instances.
There seems to be little benefit between pulsed or continuous wave sources in
most applications. Multiple different wavelengths may be of benefit in some
applications.

>>   We can assert these things about photobiomodulation (the most proper term
for what we are attempting to do) - with the proper light therapy "code" we can
get:

>>   *Mitochondrial activation
>>   *Non-mitochondrial activation (cell walls, cytoplasm)

>>   *Some common photoacceptor  molecules are: nnHemoglobin, nMyoglobin,
nCytochrome c oxidase, nNADH-dehydrogenase

>>   *Gene UP-regulation (nIntegrins, nidogens, laminin, actin, kinesin motor
proteins, semaphorins/collapsins)

>>   *Gene DOWN-regulation (nCytokine receptors: nInterleukin-1, interleukin-10,
macrophage inflammatory protein-2; nProapoptotic proteins:nApoptosis activator
Harikiri (HRK), programmed cell death1 protein precursor (PDCD-1; PD-1),
receptor-interacting protein (RIP)

>>   n*ATP production can be increased/decreased

>>   n*DNA/RNA production can be increased/decreased
>>   n*Cells "re-set" genetically to be more "normal"
>>   n*Cell proliferation can be increased/decreased
>>   n*Cell adhesiveness can be increased/decreased
>>   n*Pathogens can be killed
>>   n*Bone growth can be stimulated
>>   *Pain can be reduced (as effective as NSAIDS)
>>   n*MMP enzymes can be down-regulated
>>   *nFibroblasts can be increased - numbers and activity
>>   n*ECM can be increased
>>   n*Neuro-protection and neuro-regeneration
>>   n*Bioregulatory/hormonal systems can be modulated
>>   n*Mental states/conditions can be modulated
>>   n*Protection against toxins - chemical, radiation
>>   n*Blood flow can be increased
>>   n*Tissue swelling can be reduced
>>   *nVEGF can be down-regulated
>>   n*Collagen and pro-collagen promoted
>>   n*Angiogenesis promoted
>>   n*Macrophage activity can be increased/decreased
>>   n*Lymphocvte activity can be increased/decreased
>>   n*Apoptosis decreased
>>   n*Production of Growth Factors promoted - such as  nKGF (Keratinocyte),
nTGF (Transforming), nPDGF (Platelet-derived)

>>   nWhat does this mean? Proven.
>>   n*Significant reductions in healing times (50-80%)
>>   n*Significant improvement in wound strength (nSoft tissue and bone)
>>   n*Improved bone to implant adhesion
>>   n*Significant reductions in pain (as effective as oral NSAIDs)
>>   n*Significant temporal effects (up to months)
>>   When one hears claims about the superiority of one particular device, one
needs to be very careful about falling for sales hype. One can achieve similar
therapeutic results with a wide array of devices, I believe. The wattage of a
particular laser is really a "so what" and often translates into nothing more
than "I've got a bigger you-know-what than you do!" Unless, a company can
produce real, supportive research data that is independly verified, then all
claims are suspect.

>>   The photobio effect of low level light is tremendously powerful if it is
the right "dose" (wavelength, power, etc.). One FDA approved device, for
instance, the Gentlewaves by Light Bioscience, is a double panel of 590nm yellow
LEDs. It emits about 0.1J/cm2 (!) in its 40 second treatment time. 8 of these
treatments over one month will result in visible wrinkle reduction and obvious
skin rejuvenation. The effect continues for 6-12 months! This treatment is
proven to reduce inflammation (the MMP cascade), reduce collagenase production
(what gives us wrinkles), and switches on new collagen production. We have had
one in my office for nearly three years and it is very real

>>   Hopefully some of this will be of help to a few out there. I just don't
know how productive it is to endlessly debate the power output or superiority of
some particular "laser" device. ...And, we are not just after heat generation -
therefore, do not need microwave or u/s devices!

>>   Robert S. Dotson, M.D.
>>   Refractive Surgery Center
>>   Oak Ridge, Tennessee
>>   USA





--

Yellow is mostly used for wrinkles and collagen building

415 Blue is used for acne

470 blue can be used for jaundice and MRSA
and some degree on acne I believe.

Red 660 speeds up healing

infrared 880 increases circulation relieves pain


Take care,
  V


> Hi V,

> I've heard about the red LED and lasers before, but don't know much about the
other colors.

> Can you tell me what yellow, blue, or other colors do?  just a quick breakdown
would be fine.

> Thank you, V.  This light therapy stuff looks really interesting.

> -Ken Bagwell



--

Hi V,

I've heard about the red LED and lasers before, but don't know much about the
other colors.

Can you tell me what yellow, blue, or other colors do?  just a quick breakdown
would be fine.

Thank you, V.  This light therapy stuff looks really interesting.

-Ken Bagwell

Hi V,

Is there a red laser light available that can penetrate a trigger point in a
muscle?

My wife has ever-present trigger points in her neck, and I read below that
lasers can penetrate deeper than an LED.  Since these trigger points are well
under the skin layers, I thought maybe a laser light of the proper wavelength
might be helpful for a muscle that has a trigger point in it (both for pain, nd
possibly for healing).

Do you sell those, or know someone who does?  If not, can you give me some
advice?

I'm still interested in buying LED array of yours for hair growth, though.  So
this post if a different issue.

-Ken Bagwell

--- In LEDeffects@yahoogroups.com, V <vzon17@...> wrote:
>
>
>   Though heat production is responsible for some of the response in "target
tissue", most of the effect that one gets with the various types of phototherapy
reported is due to direct photoactivation of cells. I have spent several months
now collecting and reviewing multiple published articles on low level light
therapy - 20-30 years worth - hundreds and hundreds of articles. It most
instances, the light source can be anything - laser, LED, incandescent,
fluorescent - if it is properly filtered/managed to produce the desired
treatment result. We have multiple lasers in our office - excimer, diode, YAG -
and multiple LED based devices - Gentlewaves, Max7, numerous prototypes of our
own construction. The latter devices have been used for everything from wound
healing, to pain relief, to various ophthalmic conditions...
>
>   There are all manner of variables, of course, but the response of biologic
cells is amazingly constant to certain wavelengths (red and near IR = most
common active wavelengths - thought, others are also active for various things)
and power levels (typically 1-4 J/cm2, rarely higher levels in the 7-9 J/cm2 may
give added benefit). There is almost no added benefit to laser light sources
over LED, for instance, except for higher power levels which can translate into
shorter treatment times and - maybe - deeper penetration in some tissue.
Polarized light sources come close to matching laser sources in many instances.
There seems to be little benefit between pulsed or continuous wave sources in
most applications. Multiple different wavelengths may be of benefit in some
applications.
>
>   We can assert these things about photobiomodulation (the most proper term
for what we are attempting to do) - with the proper light therapy "code" we can
get:
>
>   *Mitochondrial activation
>   *Non-mitochondrial activation (cell walls, cytoplasm)
>
>   *Some common photoacceptor  molecules are: nnHemoglobin, nMyoglobin,
nCytochrome c oxidase, nNADH-dehydrogenase
>
>   *Gene UP-regulation (nIntegrins, nidogens, laminin, actin, kinesin motor
proteins, semaphorins/collapsins)
>
>   *Gene DOWN-regulation (nCytokine receptors: nInterleukin-1, interleukin-10,
macrophage inflammatory protein-2; nProapoptotic proteins:nApoptosis activator
Harikiri (HRK), programmed cell death1 protein precursor (PDCD-1; PD-1),
receptor-interacting protein (RIP)
>
>   n*ATP production can be increased/decreased
>
>   n*DNA/RNA production can be increased/decreased
>   n*Cells "re-set" genetically to be more "normal"
>   n*Cell proliferation can be increased/decreased
>   n*Cell adhesiveness can be increased/decreased
>   n*Pathogens can be killed
>   n*Bone growth can be stimulated
>   *Pain can be reduced (as effective as NSAIDS)
>   n*MMP enzymes can be down-regulated
>   *nFibroblasts can be increased - numbers and activity
>   n*ECM can be increased
>   n*Neuro-protection and neuro-regeneration
>   n*Bioregulatory/hormonal systems can be modulated
>   n*Mental states/conditions can be modulated
>   n*Protection against toxins - chemical, radiation
>   n*Blood flow can be increased
>   n*Tissue swelling can be reduced
>   *nVEGF can be down-regulated
>   n*Collagen and pro-collagen promoted
>   n*Angiogenesis promoted
>   n*Macrophage activity can be increased/decreased
>   n*Lymphocvte activity can be increased/decreased
>   n*Apoptosis decreased
>   n*Production of Growth Factors promoted - such as  nKGF (Keratinocyte), nTGF
(Transforming), nPDGF (Platelet-derived)
>
>   nWhat does this mean? Proven.
>   n*Significant reductions in healing times (50-80%)
>   n*Significant improvement in wound strength (nSoft tissue and bone)
>   n*Improved bone to implant adhesion
>   n*Significant reductions in pain (as effective as oral NSAIDs)
>   n*Significant temporal effects (up to months)
>   When one hears claims about the superiority of one particular device, one
needs to be very careful about falling for sales hype. One can achieve similar
therapeutic results with a wide array of devices, I believe. The wattage of a
particular laser is really a "so what" and often translates into nothing more
than "I've got a bigger you-know-what than you do!" Unless, a company can
produce real, supportive research data that is independly verified, then all
claims are suspect.
>
>   The photobio effect of low level light is tremendously powerful if it is the
right "dose" (wavelength, power, etc.). One FDA approved device, for instance,
the Gentlewaves by Light Bioscience, is a double panel of 590nm yellow LEDs. It
emits about 0.1J/cm2 (!) in its 40 second treatment time. 8 of these treatments
over one month will result in visible wrinkle reduction and obvious skin
rejuvenation. The effect continues for 6-12 months! This treatment is proven to
reduce inflammation (the MMP cascade), reduce collagenase production (what gives
us wrinkles), and switches on new collagen production. We have had one in my
office for nearly three years and it is very real
>
>   Hopefully some of this will be of help to a few out there. I just don't know
how productive it is to endlessly debate the power output or superiority of some
particular "laser" device. ...And, we are not just after heat generation -
therefore, do not need microwave or u/s devices!
>
>   Robert S. Dotson, M.D.
>   Refractive Surgery Center
>   Oak Ridge, Tennessee
>   USA
>

Well the lasers in the laser combs are the red. the laser they use are usually 5
mw or less output so it seems the LEDs should work fine as they have a higher
output per LED than those small lasers. Maybe i should make an attachment to the
LED units so they can be used as a comb or brush :-)



Take care,
  V


> The reason why I asked was I also heard about some other light product
> being used to REMOVE body hair... I'm not sure if it was UV or what.
>
> After hearing about the laser comb, and then this product, I was pretty
> confused about which effect light therapy would have on hair.
>
> Will
>
>
> In a message dated 9/24/2009 3:58:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> kenancy2000@... writes:

> Trying  to find the right one to re-grow hair.  My wife has thin hair on
> top.

> Yeah, I heard about the laser comb.  It's $500.  I doubt  it's worth it.

> Thank you, V.

> -Ken Bagwell

> --- In  LEDeffects@yahoogroups.com, cassius622@... wrote:

>> Hi,
>>
>> I don't know the answer to this myself, but your  question raises one of
> my
>> own..
>>
>> Are you  trying to use an LED to *thin* your hair, or are you trying to
> grow
>>  more? I thought there was a commercial LED comb on the market  reputed
> to
>> regrow  hair...  I can't imagine LED's can both  thin AND regrow...
>>
>> Will
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 9/24/2009 2:31:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight  Time,
>> kenancy2000@... writes:

>> Hi   V,

>> Can you tell me which LED I should get if I want to try  one out for
> hair
>> thinning?

>> -Ken   Bagwell





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