<< I've read (and we have had some reports here on IOL) that Mike Mentzer never
really used his own Heavy Duty system of one set per exercise. According to an
eye-witness who saw Mike working out in his prime, he would do 2-3 warmup sets
(half-pyramid) in each exercise, before hitting his one max set. A pretty
conventional method.

Can you confirm this observation? >>

Mike never claimed otherwise. Just about everyone in the HIT camp, with the
exception of Arthur Jones, confirms the wisdom of warming up with submax sets
before doing a "work set." The only times Mike did not advise doing warmup sets
was in mid-workout, when the involved muscles were already warmed up from
previous exercises.

This is a semantical conflict, not one regarding a training philosophy.

Steve

--


> << Henrik, its been a while since I read exactly what Mike would state
> to do, did he not advocate a warm up?? >>
>
> Ken, thanks for the eye witness report from Gold's '78. Great stuff. I
honestly haven't studied Mentzer's training theories in detail, because his
basic ideas of going all out in one set (warm-up or not) never appealed to
me.
>
  >
> >
> Henrik
>
  Henrik:
     Mentzer was a big advocate of HIT which, by it's very nature, precludes
doing a large volume of work. As he had stated and written numerous times,
"You can train long, or you can train hard, but you can't train hard for
very long." Nobody, I'm sure, would question this premise.
    Mike had taken the training philosophy of Arthur Jones and fine-tuned it
to make them more applicable to bodybuilders, whom Jones eventually grew to
despise. For a time, Mentzer was advocating two sets of each exercise,
sometimes expanding on this and going up to perhaps 6 total sets per body
part, which is still very abbreviated when compared to the 20 plus sets
performed by most physique champions. Early on, Jones and Nautilus Sports
Medical Industries were advocating 2 to 3 sets of an exercise, but over the
years reduced this volume to only one set to failure done in a circuit, with
the entire workout lasting no more that 20 minutes. In many ways I feel the
current gym scene could be improved by offering such circuit programs as an
intro to resistance exercise for new members. For the most part, the average
man or woman wouldn't need much more than this. What eventually happened to
the clubs that featured Nautilus machines was that the machines became bar
stools for the Spandex set. It was this scenario that led to the oft heard
claim that "Nautilus doesn't work." Done that way, it's not surprising. You
can fault club management for this. The members really don't know any
better.
    Does such HIT training work? In the short run, yes. I've seen it work,
having been confirmed with pre and post body comp testing. Major downfall on
such a program is with long term compliance. How long can we be expected to
run full tilt into a brick wall? Most people lack the testicular fortitude
for such severe training. The more intelligent among us will opt to climb
over or go around that wall.
    Mike Mentzer, before he died, was pushing one set of four or five
exercises per session, done only once every 4 or 5 days. He felt this was
what was needed for his personal training clients, many of whom he referred
to as 'recovery morons'. It would seem that the volume of Mentzer's later
programs was approaching zero......not, at least in my opinion, an adequate
program.
    Many of my own clients could be labeled in such uncharitable terms as
well, but the reason for this is that many of them are leading a rock 'n
roll party lifestyle, are sleep deprived, malnourished, and many times hung
over. Life is about choices.
Keep on pumpin'!
Jim

Your Body Revival is printed, cartoned and shipped as of this morning --
the pallets are on a truck heading across the country and will arrive
sometime next week. *Perfect* time for a couple days away.

We're heading out later this morning for a spur-of-the-moment trip a an
unknown direction (whichever way looks sunny; we're in a fog over here) and
will be back late Wednesday. In the meanwhile, Bill's graciously agreed to
moderate, even though he's too busy doing the tax returns of
procrastinating Bay Area Americans (let this be a reminder call to the rest
of you procrastinating American IOLers -- you'll sleep easier and have less
muscle-eating cortisol if you knuckle down and get those returns done!).

BK's in charge. I think I nominate Johnny as first on deck. :)

Laree

Wow, great numbers.  Congrats on your placing.

	 I have a question, if you don't mind.  How does one cycle
powerlifting and bodybuilding?  I'd like to focus on increasing my poundages
but am unsure of what type of program to follow.  Thanks for any help you
can offer.

Congratulations Corey, your always a winner when you do your best.

-----Original Message-----
From: Corey M. Pavitt [mailto:pavittchiro@...]
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 1:45 AM
To: IronOnline@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [IOL] A Tough, Fun Contest


Friends,

I'm sorry to report that we'll have to wait until 2003 for the Mr. Alaska
title.  The show this year was the biggest and most competetive I have seen
yet.  And unfortunately the most obvious steroid use.

I was by far the most highly conditioned competitor at the show. This caused
quite a ruckus and many had me pegged for the overall.  In the end the
judges went for size and I was edged out of the lightheavy weight title by a
short kid, not as hard or tight, but fully developed and pretty cut.  The
overall went to a very deserving heavyweight, a tall man with a wide back
and unbelievable narrow hips and a good overall package.

>well i did check out bomber blend on dave
>draper.com...u get a case of 6 for $144 but how long
>will it take for them to deliver considerin i'm livin
>in india..and are there any other delivery charges...?
>and in how many months should i see good results
>...say an inch on arms...considering i work out 5 days
>a week..
>vishal

Hi, Vishal,

Shipping overseas is either *very* expensive -- depending on to where; it
sometimes doubles the price of the product -- or takes 2-3 months for
delivery. I love the Bomber Blend, but really, this is not the way I'd be
going if I lived in India. Because part two is that our post office no
longer insures parcels shipped to India, Pakistan, Indonesia, among other
countries... too many packages disappear before arriving at the customer's
house. This means that people are paying for stuff that they don't get.
Very iffy.

Do you have health food stores? And do they have protein powder there?

Personally, I'd make some compromises with the deck stacked this heavily
against me.

Laree

>>Good day to all. I am currently useing Beverly International to help me
prepare and have been with them for 5 weeks now and I have to say that it has
been all good. Both the product and the service has been great and I have been
seeing excellent results.

   kenbaudoux <baudoux.kr@...> wrote: --- In IronOnline@y..., "Susan
Rodriguez" wrote:
> Just my .02 on Beverly International.............at least the
customer
> service aspect of it--SUPERB! I did their fax back program where
you send
> them all your info like height, weight, your diet, workout, etc.
and they
> help you put together a diet to suit your particular goal (put on
muscle,
> lose fat, whatever your goal is). I sent my fax to them before I
left work
> and 15 minutes after I got home, they called me. I spoke with one
of their
> representatives who explained everything in detail to me, as well
as emailed
> me my diet plan, tips, etc. All for FREE! :-) Can't beat free,
can ya!?!
> I ordered some of their recommended products and received my order
in 2
> days. I start on their products tomorrow, I'll let you all know
what I
> think of them after using them for a while.
>
> Susan in VA

Hi Corey,

Congrats on the Fantastic second place, its a great achievement
good luck next year...I know your achievements keep me motivated.

As for the Juicers...I'd settle for my health and s
natural look anyday.

Take Care

Al



>Thanks again to all my IOL friends for all your support, motivation, and
>wisdom.  You have all become very important to me and part of why I feel I
>am truly blessed.
>
>Corey
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

<< My online portfolio is >http:www.creativehotlist.com/j_preston< >>

Excellent work, Jeff.

Steve

Wow!  1300 total!  That's a great first meet!  Congrats!

Shredder

<< Wouldn't our own Dave Draper be perfect as THOR!
> --- just a thought :-) >>
>
> Even he'd get thor thwinging that hammer. . . .
>
> Thteve
>


Watth tho funny about that?

Thylvether the cat

absolutey no pain, just very a symetrical cross shape, a horizontal ridge
line at the bottom of the pecs, and vertical in the middle of the abs. you
can press on it and there is no pain of discomfort. i don't believe it's an
abd pop out.

just weird. of course when you kids run out of the room screaming like
something is going to pop out and grab does get your heart rate up.

to many sci-fi movies i guess.

greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "kenbaudoux" <baudoux.kr@...>
To: <IronOnline@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 9:43 PM
Subject: [IOL] Re: the bulge


> --- In IronOnline@y..., "docweb" <docweb@g...> wrote:
> > whew, one of my kids came over for dinner today and i showed him,
> he thought
> > it was an alien or something
> >
> > greg
> >
>
> Hey Greg, is this painful???? You have heard of abdominal "pop out"
> I assume?
>
> Ken B.

Garage is good.   Unless you really get crazy on spending for
equipment, you'll eventually hit a breakpoint and then get cheaper
than the gym alternative.

Pros far outweigh the cons.  I agree wiht Tim's analysis of pro/con,
though usually if motivation flags for me, I just switch my routine
around and it is re-energized.


--- In IronOnline@y..., Tim Davies <tdavies1965@y...> wrote:
> Joe In Richmond...
>
> GARAGE RAT indeed - I happen to currently be one of
> those and with every Iron addict there are PROS and
> CONS. Some of mine go like this
<snip>>
>
> --- jszach@m... wrote:
<snip>
> > gym. I can't wait for the day where I can become a
> > garage rat!
> >
> > Joe in Richmond

--- In IronOnline@y..., <gary.edwards@c...> wrote:

> I completed my first full powermeet on Saturday.
> my total of 1300 was a PR for the same reason..
> Now I have a standard to improve upon...
> I got a second place trophy behind the winner at
> 1350..
> ..really great.. GaryE

We are proud to know ya!

     marty b et al

In a message dated 4/1/02 9:30:28 AM Central Standard Time,
pavittchiro@... writes:


> The Mr. Alaska report in a nutshell:  I am constantly aware of how truly
> blessed I am, I am in the best shape of my life, and I am enjoying training
> and clean eating more than I ever have.  They had better watch out next
> year
> :)
>
>

Corey,

Congrats on being your very best at the Mr. Alaska!  With your attitude,
taking the title is only a matter of time.

Shredder


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey, Randy, welcome, how 'bout those teenagers, having fun with my almost
17 year old son (not!).  I work out at 4:40 AM, 4:15 sounds way to early.
How long do your workouts go?

JohnH

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:38:33 -0800
    From: "Randy Crist" <rcrist@...>
Subject: RE:  Intro.


I am married with two children (son-17 and daughter-13).  I have been in
the
environmental/haz waste business for over 13 years now.  I am a born and
raised Southern Californian, currently living in Ontario, CA.

I train at 4:15 am at 24 hour fitness in Ontario and train 7 days per week.
Mon-Fri, I train with weights and do cardio. Sat-Sun, I do cardio only.  I
train each body part only once per week, one body part per day.  I train as
heavy as possible, using strict form and never dropping below 6 reps.  I
try
to include compound movements whenever possible and have begun doing
deadlifts this week after 20 years of neglect.

I'm glad to be part of this group and look forward to contributing whenever
possible.  I will be at the IOL bash in the fall and hope to meet many of
you.

Corey,

When you do your best and you do it right (no drugs) that's what
counts.  Congratulations.

Dennis

--- In IronOnline@y..., "Henrik Nielsen" <henrik7@g...> wrote:
> I seem to remember seeing somewhere that he once again went back to
Caribbean to become a newspaper reporter, but don't know this for
sure. A guy at my gym who follows the conversation on the GetBig
message boards (where some of the current pro's post a lot) told me
that a Rick Wayne had posted there asking if anyone could confirm
that Gunnar Rosbo had died (Remember him?). Don't know if it's the
same Rick Wayne. BTW Gunnar is alive and well and living here in
Scandinavia.
>
> Henrik

I absolutely remember Gunnar, incredible arms and eve more incredible
forearms, thought he was going to be a real threat then he
disappeared, I think maybe he injured himself? Is he the still active?

Ken B.

I get so much spam it's amazing my computer doesn't weigh 740 lbs from all
the junk
in my mailbox.  It's a real problem.  Thing is my business is email
marketing I've been
doing opt in's for 7 years.  I know sometimes people get mad when they sign
up for stuff
and then get email but they really shouldn't. I get mad mostly when i get
stuff I know I never
signed up for.



At 07:37 AM 3/31/02 -0800, you wrote:
><< Once on your account page, scroll down to "Member Information" and click
>on "Edit your marketing preferences" (the link immediately below your email
>addresses). On the next page, you'll find a list of "Special Offers &
>Marketing  Communications," followed by the line "I would like to receive
>information about..." and a list of services Yahoo is offering. You'll find
>all the "yes" buttons checked. Change all the "yes" buttons to "nos." Now
>scroll down to the bottom, where it says "Other Delivery: Indicate other
>ways you want to receive the special offers and marketing communications you
>have selected." You'll find the options "via U.S. mail" and "via phone"
>checked "Yes." Yahoo's gonna let people call you on the TELEPHONE. Do ya
>really think??!! Don't forget to SAVE your changes -- maybe it said FINISH,
>I can't remember. Laree >>

Thanks, Henrick!  It must have taken you quite some time to type that all out
for us -- and English isn't even your native tongue.  Thank you for the gift to
our group!
BTW -- I thought "Muscle Wars" "Muscletown, USA" and even "Gorilla Suit" were
fascinating inside accounts of the world of bodybuilding.  Are there any more
contemporary accounts out there worth perusing?  Has Rick Wayne come up with
anything of a more recent vintage?
Paul W.Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Friends,

I'm sorry to report that we'll have to wait until 2003 for the Mr. Alaska
title.  The show this year was the biggest and most competetive I have seen
yet.  And unfortunately the most obvious steroid use.

I was by far the most highly conditioned competitor at the show. This caused
quite a ruckus and many had me pegged for the overall.  In the end the
judges went for size and I was edged out of the lightheavy weight title by a
short kid, not as hard or tight, but fully developed and pretty cut.  The
overall went to a very deserving heavyweight, a tall man with a wide back
and unbelievable narrow hips and a good overall package.

After the prejudging, all the feed back I got was that I had the class in
the bag and that the overall was going to be between myself and the
heavyweight winner.  Apparently I totally stood out in the line up.  I was
therefore taken by surprise when I was announced 2nd.  It was a big
disapointment not to get into the overal and also to be beaten by someone
not nearly as hard and also on juice.

Fortunately I have had such a positive experience getting ready for this
contest and had such a blast doing it that I am already itching to improve
my back and overall size so that I won't get sand (or snow in our case)
kicked in my face next year.  The promoter gave my family 5 front row seats
and I had a total blast doing my free routine with my family and a good
friend up front.  I received fantastic applause during the whole routine and
have never had more fun on stage.

Each year I keep building on my previous experience and this year was the
most productive yet.  I have learned so much and fully expect to make even
more dramatic improvements this year.  I have been remis the last few weeks
in my journal, so I will send a synopsis soon of what I found really worked
this year and what didn't and how I think I should approach this next year.

I haven't taken my photos yet.  I will probably take a couple of days for my
stomach to go down after last night and today's eating  :) so I might wait
until thsi weekend.  At any rate, I will get some photos off to Laree soon.

The Mr. Alaska report in a nutshell:  I am constantly aware of how truly
blessed I am, I am in the best shape of my life, and I am enjoying training
and clean eating more than I ever have.  They had better watch out next year
:)

Thanks again to all my IOL friends for all your support, motivation, and
wisdom.  You have all become very important to me and part of why I feel I
am truly blessed.

Corey

<< Henrik, its been a while since I read exactly what Mike would state
to do, did he not advocate a warm up?? >>

Ken, thanks for the eye witness report from Gold's '78. Great stuff. I honestly
haven't studied Mentzer's training theories in detail, because his basic ideas
of going all out in one set (warm-up or not) never appealed to me.

<< Hey Henrik whatever happened to Mr. Muscle Wars Rick Wayne anyway? >>

I seem to remember seeing somewhere that he once again went back to Caribbean to
become a newspaper reporter, but don't know this for sure. A guy at my gym who
follows the conversation on the GetBig message boards (where some of the current
pro's post a lot) told me that a Rick Wayne had posted there asking if anyone
could confirm that Gunnar Rosbo had died (Remember him?). Don't know if it's the
same Rick Wayne. BTW Gunnar is alive and well and living here in Scandinavia.

Henrik

<< Wouldn't our own Dave Draper be perfect as THOR!
--- just a thought :-) >>

Even he'd get thor thwinging that hammer. . . .

Thteve

> I didn't bulk very well, I think I have more fat
> that I would have liked. Oh
> well, I know for next time.
> jam

__________________________

I read somewhere that once you reach your genetic
potential (some of us are more genetic than others :),
almost every additional pound of muscle acquired will
also add a pound of fat to go with it. Most of us are
suppose to fall into this category. I am sure that
this isn’t 100% true, but at a minimum you probably
have to have an extremely disciplined lifestyle to
reach any further goals if they are possible at all.

I believe that I have some personal experience with
this in that when I tried to bulk up, I found that I
put on as much fat as muscle. When I slowly leaned up
andbrought my fat levels back to where they were
originally, I was back to the same size and weight
that I was originally (my shape was slightly better,
but only noticable to myself).

Any comments or personal eperiences out there to share
on this subject?


On another note, for all of you out there that want to
put on muscle without exercising at all... there is a
way!

It seems that your body adds a 1/4 poind of muscle for
structural support for every 4 pounds of fat you add.

See ya at Mickey D’s! :)

Bill

______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca

I completed my first full powermeet on Saturday.  Weighed in at 216
and entered the 220 masters class.  For squats I started conservative
so I'd be sure to get in.. 360 for my opener ..easy.. then 400 and
finally 435lbs.. had more but I wanted to get all three in my first
meet.. For bench I opened with 320 , went to 350 and both went easy.
I tried 360 for my third and didn't quite have it.. My bench is down,
but I improved from two weeks ago..Then to deads..450 opener.. easy..
500 second attempt.. tough but more left.. Then I went for 515 for my
last attempt.. big effort and I got it..A new PR for me.. of course
the squat was a PR since it was my first squat in competition and my
total of 1300 was a PR for the same reason.. Now I have a standard to
improve upon...I got a second place trophy behind the winner at
1350.. The BEST lifter was a 275lb 5' 8" mass of muscle who squatted
700, benched 600 and deadlifted 700 for a 2000lb. total...AWESOME..he
did a fourth bench at 625 that was good for a state record but didn't
count in the total..WOW..There was also a 145 lb. lifter who did a
500lb. deadlift..really great.. GaryE

hi stingo...
             thanx for ur advice....and thats the
reason y i have decided to buy "bomber blend"
i'm gonna buy 6 tubs in order to get the the 6th one
free....but the most important question is ..what is
the weight of 1 tub ? i hope its 1 kg.
????
in that way if its 6kgs( 6000 gms) i can use it for 60
days(100 gms per day...2 servings of 50 each)...3
months...since..i work out 5 days a week....20 days in
a month on an avg.
can i put on atleast an inch on my arms in these 3
months if i take this suppliment..how good are the
resuls gonna be ???
reply
vishal

--- Stingo <chopchopp1@...> wrote:
> BOMBER BLEND......
>
> Bigger tub and what's more it's FULL!!! Not half
> empty like the other brands out there.
> Buy 6 and the price equates to getting the 6th one
> for free!!!
>
> TASTES GREAT TOO and shakes up nicely. 38grams of
> protein per serving!
>
> -Stingo

The new Dolfzine is on line at http://www.dolfzine.com with articles by Dave
Draper, Fred Hatfield, Sal Arria, Vince McConnell and Jim Ganley to name a
few.  There are some interesting articles on training women as well as
step-by-step article on getting ripped and manipulating calories.  There is
also a very useful article (I think) on self-defense.  Also there are 6
never-before-seen-fotos of pro bodybuilders.

Please drop by and take a look.

ron

www.dolfzine.com

used as spacers.


--- Rick Cartwright <rick_c@...> wrote:
> One day a few months ago I arrived at the gym in the
> AM to find a 2.5 on
> each side of the Leg Press. Nothing else! Go figure.
>
> Rick


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

Here is something to keep you smooooooth. :)

http://www.xtreme3.com/register_flash.html


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In IronOnline@y..., "Susan Rodriguez" <mzsuz2u@c...> wrote:
> Just my .02 on Beverly International.............at least the
customer
> service aspect of it--SUPERB!  I did their fax back program where
you send
> them all your info like height,  weight, your diet, workout, etc.
and they
> help you put together a diet to suit your particular goal (put on
muscle,
> lose fat, whatever your goal is).  I sent my fax to them before I
left work
> and 15 minutes after I got home, they called me.  I spoke with one
of their
> representatives who explained everything in detail to me, as well
as emailed
> me my diet plan, tips, etc.  All for FREE!  :-)  Can't beat free,
can ya!?!
> I ordered some of their recommended products and received my order
in 2
> days.  I start on their products tomorrow, I'll let you all know
what I
> think of them after using them for a while.
>
> Susan in VA
>


Susan please do, I know I would be interested in what they are
offering.

Ken B.