Simon Dankel wrote:
>
> I'm not convinced if getting omega-3s only from
> vegetable sources (e.g. relying on Udo's Choice
> and/or flax) is optimal, as omega-3s from fish
> may have unique properties of their own when
> supplied in larger amounts than the body is able to
> convert.
>
> Sincerely,
> Simon
>
Fish, mammals and birds (eggs) do not manufacture omega-3s within
their own physiology. They get omega-3s from various plant sources
and concentrate them within their bodies to varying degrees. Global
warming is killing off the micro-flora of the oceans, so the
plankton are suffering and right up the food chain to the salmon,
cod etc. that we eat.

Your best bets are to (a) fight global warming and (b) demand grass-
fed beef (c) use fish-oil supplements from a reputable supplier.  As
an additional precaution, write to the supplement supplier and ask
them two things:

(i) about their testing for pollutants in their fish oil and whether
they comply with the standards applying in your country (in
Australia and the US those standards are laughable - see Barry
Sears' recent books).

(ii) also ask them about the contents of the fish-oil capsules. Most
capsules contain 240mg of omega-3s in 1,000mg. Ask the suplier what
the remaining 760mg comprises. If it is omega-6s, then you could be
doing yourself more harm than good.

Keith

Last night I was reading through the NHE book trying to find out if
there was any discussion on the source of omega 3 in foods. I guess
what I was trying to find out was if the omega 3 content can be
determined by the number of grams of poly- or mono-unsaturated fats,
but what I realized is that omega 3 can be found in more than one
source of fat, correct? Also, can I expect to get enough omega 3 in my
diet by using olive oil, eating dark green leafy vegetable and
snacking on walnuts?

One more thing, what brands of multi-vitamins are you all taking? I
found Life Essence by Pure Essence Labs to contain a large amount of
nutrients, so I thought that I'd just pass that along. If anyone takes
anything else that they like I'd be interested in hearing from you.

Thanks!

Luke,

I've been lifting for years as well, though sometimes sporadically because of university. I've been doing HIE seriously (starting all the way back at beginner) since September 2004. In that time I'm up about 13 pounds LBM while hovering around 10-12% body fat. I'm fairly happy with that result considering I have a relatively small frame.

I've been doing advanced for about 30 weeks and it still seems to be working well for me. I often leave the gym feeling shattered after a 30-40 minute workout. Out of a group of 20 weightlifters in the gym, I often find I'm the only one sweating because its so intense!

I find the important exercises to really concentrate on are at the beginning of the workout: bench press, rowing, squat, lunges, curls and tri-press. If I can improve my lifts in these exercises then I'm happy. I'm not sure how heavy your lifts are at this point, but remember that strength will only go so far. Once your genetic potential is reached you have to rely on qualitative progression, which is what advanced HIE is all about.

Also, how good are you at assessing overtraining? This is one of the easiest identifiable causes for plateaus.

Rob is doing a supplement review from what I hear from Simon, although I have no clue on the time line. General supplements I take include a high potency multivitamin/mineral, vit. C & E, magensium, zinc, flax, GLA and protein powder. I also cycle creatine and periodically take glutamine if I can afford it.

There is also the possibility of pro-hormones if you're really serious about weightlifting and can afford the exorbitant prices. But first I would get the BF% down and try out advanced HIE.

Regards,

Joel

On 1/6/06, Luke Buckley <bpx_91@...> wrote:

Joel

 

Ive been lifting for years but only doing HIE int. since August and progress is pretty much at a halt so im about to start advanced.

what are your thoughts on the advanced? have you made much progress and how long have you been doing it?

Also i thought i read somewhere that Rob is doing a supplement review, do you know if that is the case??....any supplements you are using that you recommend?

cholesterol has been checked and everything is ok there.

Ive re-read pg 131 NHE and will cut down on fat intake in an effort to get BF down.

 

Luke

Joel Rosart < joel.rosart@...> wrote:

Luke,

How long have you been lifting? I'm assuming at least a year since you started on the HIE intermediate plan.

Anyhow, the general NHE plan was formulated to be a very muscle sparing diet. Reliance on fat for energy, frequent protein feedings and cyclical carb loading are just some of the mechanisms by which this is accomplished. By adding in weight training, its almost guaranteed you won't lose any lean body mass; in fact, you may gain some. Just not as much as on the bodybuilding plan. Unless you're training for a specific sport, I think losing 5 pounds of fat will do just as much for your physique as gaining a few pounds of muscle.

Rob never strictly says it in NHE, but there is a need to switch between the general and BB plans from time to time in order to keep BF% low. My opinion is that almost everyone should start NHE on the general plan to establish that they can lose BF on it. That way if BF creeps up too high they know they have an effective diet they can fall back on.

Regards,

Joel

On 1/4/06, Luke Buckley <bpx_91@...> wrote:

Hey Joel,

thanks for the info. I will give the supersetting a go in momentum and leave consolidation as is except for the additional olympic lift.

I am worried if i go back to normal eating plan then i may lose lean mass and strength with the BF due to a reduction in calories or is this not the case?

I know i need to lose BF and will re-read pg 131 of NHE to see if it helps.

 

Getting blood test in morning to check cholesterol and potassium/sodium ratio. Will let you know how it turns out but thanks again for your help, appreciated.

 

Luke

Joel Rosart <joel.rosart@... > wrote:

Hi Luke,

My understanding is that you should aim to superset all RAM-paired, assigned exercises for the advanced program. Its the ultimate in workout efficiency, although there are some practical considerations to keep in mind. Personally, I find supersetting plie lunge and side lunge to be one of the worst forms of torture imaginable. Plus, my cardiovascular system gives out long before the muscles do, so I avoid supersetting these 2 exercises. As a rule, I would try to superset almost every exercise; you'll soon figure out which pairs are incompatible for you.

When adding supersets to the advanced HIE program, I would gradually introduce them over a couple of months rather than go from 0 supersets to 4 or 5 in a single workout. They're much more demanding so its best to avoid overtraining by introducing them slowly.

Rob has created the HIE workout progams to be highly versatile and effective for almost anyone who uses them. Certainly your chest may be recovered in 5 days rather than 7, but by adding supersets this may change. Also remember that lack of muscle soreness is not a good indicator of recovery. The only real way of determining full recovery is to attempt a workout and compare your lifts.

Lastly, I should draw your attention to page 131 in NHE, stating that: "the bodybuilders' NHE eating plan is designed for healthy athletes." And on the next page: "the bodybuilders' plan is not designed to be a fat-reducing diet." At 26.5% BF, I think your primary goal should be reducing it to the teens using the general eating plan and HIE. You were obviously eager to start building muscle straight away, but I think increasing your body mass any higher than it currently is would be a mistake. Have you had a blood lipid profile done recently?

There are some negative hormonal effects associated with higher BF values, including lower insulin sensitivity, GH output and testosterone. Simply by dropping 10% BF your hormonal status should improve markedly and help you achieve the results you're after.

Regards,

Joel

On 12/26/05, bpx_91 < bpx_91@...> wrote:

Ive done the intermediate HIE program and am now putting together
Advanced program. It says in HIE to employ supersets during momentum
workouts but it does not say if we are supposed to do that on each
and every set of momentum....is this the case,or is it on some?
Next question is about chest training..in HIE it says in a
hypothetical(cant remember what page) "if your chest has recovered
from a workout in 5days but you do not train it again for 8days,you
will not get the same benefit than if you trained it on the 5th
day." In the program laid out for us as you all know it has only one
chest workout per week.I feel that i am recovered by Thurs/Fri if i
train chest monday so what do we do in this situation?
The last thing i want to know is why my progress is slow. I started
in August on intermediate and BB eating plan. Gradual increases in
strength at first and body weight went up about 4kg along with bf
about 2 more % to 86kg,26.5%....i am thinking i must be eating too
many calories fo bf to go up,so ive dropped it a little and my
weight has also gone down with bf aswell,so i am almost the same
weight and composition as 4-5 months ago. I have been following it
all very carefully too. Its frustrating all i can say is i have
gained a little strength although that is slowing. what am i doing
wrong?.
I wonder if the anabolic boost from carbs after a workout is worth a
try?
Any information is much appreciated thanks to everyone.

Luke

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Luke,

How long have you been lifting? I'm assuming at least a year since you started on the HIE intermediate plan.

Anyhow, the general NHE plan was formulated to be a very muscle sparing diet. Reliance on fat for energy, frequent protein feedings and cyclical carb loading are just some of the mechanisms by which this is accomplished. By adding in weight training, its almost guaranteed you won't lose any lean body mass; in fact, you may gain some. Just not as much as on the bodybuilding plan. Unless you're training for a specific sport, I think losing 5 pounds of fat will do just as much for your physique as gaining a few pounds of muscle.

Rob never strictly says it in NHE, but there is a need to switch between the general and BB plans from time to time in order to keep BF% low. My opinion is that almost everyone should start NHE on the general plan to establish that they can lose BF on it. That way if BF creeps up too high they know they have an effective diet they can fall back on.

Regards,

Joel

On 1/4/06, Luke Buckley <bpx_91@...> wrote:

Hey Joel,

thanks for the info. I will give the supersetting a go in momentum and leave consolidation as is except for the additional olympic lift.

I am worried if i go back to normal eating plan then i may lose lean mass and strength with the BF due to a reduction in calories or is this not the case?

I know i need to lose BF and will re-read pg 131 of NHE to see if it helps.

 

Getting blood test in morning to check cholesterol and potassium/sodium ratio. Will let you know how it turns out but thanks again for your help, appreciated.

 

Luke

Joel Rosart <joel.rosart@... > wrote:

Hi Luke,

My understanding is that you should aim to superset all RAM-paired, assigned exercises for the advanced program. Its the ultimate in workout efficiency, although there are some practical considerations to keep in mind. Personally, I find supersetting plie lunge and side lunge to be one of the worst forms of torture imaginable. Plus, my cardiovascular system gives out long before the muscles do, so I avoid supersetting these 2 exercises. As a rule, I would try to superset almost every exercise; you'll soon figure out which pairs are incompatible for you.

When adding supersets to the advanced HIE program, I would gradually introduce them over a couple of months rather than go from 0 supersets to 4 or 5 in a single workout. They're much more demanding so its best to avoid overtraining by introducing them slowly.

Rob has created the HIE workout progams to be highly versatile and effective for almost anyone who uses them. Certainly your chest may be recovered in 5 days rather than 7, but by adding supersets this may change. Also remember that lack of muscle soreness is not a good indicator of recovery. The only real way of determining full recovery is to attempt a workout and compare your lifts.

Lastly, I should draw your attention to page 131 in NHE, stating that: "the bodybuilders' NHE eating plan is designed for healthy athletes." And on the next page: "the bodybuilders' plan is not designed to be a fat-reducing diet." At 26.5% BF, I think your primary goal should be reducing it to the teens using the general eating plan and HIE. You were obviously eager to start building muscle straight away, but I think increasing your body mass any higher than it currently is would be a mistake. Have you had a blood lipid profile done recently?

There are some negative hormonal effects associated with higher BF values, including lower insulin sensitivity, GH output and testosterone. Simply by dropping 10% BF your hormonal status should improve markedly and help you achieve the results you're after.

Regards,

Joel

On 12/26/05, bpx_91 < bpx_91@...> wrote:

Ive done the intermediate HIE program and am now putting together
Advanced program. It says in HIE to employ supersets during momentum
workouts but it does not say if we are supposed to do that on each
and every set of momentum....is this the case,or is it on some?
Next question is about chest training..in HIE it says in a
hypothetical(cant remember what page) "if your chest has recovered
from a workout in 5days but you do not train it again for 8days,you
will not get the same benefit than if you trained it on the 5th
day." In the program laid out for us as you all know it has only one
chest workout per week.I feel that i am recovered by Thurs/Fri if i
train chest monday so what do we do in this situation?
The last thing i want to know is why my progress is slow. I started
in August on intermediate and BB eating plan. Gradual increases in
strength at first and body weight went up about 4kg along with bf
about 2 more % to 86kg,26.5%....i am thinking i must be eating too
many calories fo bf to go up,so ive dropped it a little and my
weight has also gone down with bf aswell,so i am almost the same
weight and composition as 4-5 months ago. I have been following it
all very carefully too. Its frustrating all i can say is i have
gained a little strength although that is slowing. what am i doing
wrong?.
I wonder if the anabolic boost from carbs after a workout is worth a
try?
Any information is much appreciated thanks to everyone.

Luke

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Hi Luke,

My understanding is that you should aim to superset all RAM-paired, assigned exercises for the advanced program. Its the ultimate in workout efficiency, although there are some practical considerations to keep in mind. Personally, I find supersetting plie lunge and side lunge to be one of the worst forms of torture imaginable. Plus, my cardiovascular system gives out long before the muscles do, so I avoid supersetting these 2 exercises. As a rule, I would try to superset almost every exercise; you'll soon figure out which pairs are incompatible for you.

When adding supersets to the advanced HIE program, I would gradually introduce them over a couple of months rather than go from 0 supersets to 4 or 5 in a single workout. They're much more demanding so its best to avoid overtraining by introducing them slowly.

Rob has created the HIE workout progams to be highly versatile and effective for almost anyone who uses them. Certainly your chest may be recovered in 5 days rather than 7, but by adding supersets this may change. Also remember that lack of muscle soreness is not a good indicator of recovery. The only real way of determining full recovery is to attempt a workout and compare your lifts.

Lastly, I should draw your attention to page 131 in NHE, stating that: "the bodybuilders' NHE eating plan is designed for healthy athletes." And on the next page: "the bodybuilders' plan is not designed to be a fat-reducing diet." At 26.5% BF, I think your primary goal should be reducing it to the teens using the general eating plan and HIE. You were obviously eager to start building muscle straight away, but I think increasing your body mass any higher than it currently is would be a mistake. Have you had a blood lipid profile done recently?

There are some negative hormonal effects associated with higher BF values, including lower insulin sensitivity, GH output and testosterone. Simply by dropping 10% BF your hormonal status should improve markedly and help you achieve the results you're after.

Regards,

Joel

On 12/26/05, bpx_91 <bpx_91@...> wrote:

Ive done the intermediate HIE program and am now putting together
Advanced program. It says in HIE to employ supersets during momentum
workouts but it does not say if we are supposed to do that on each
and every set of momentum....is this the case,or is it on some?
Next question is about chest training..in HIE it says in a
hypothetical(cant remember what page) "if your chest has recovered
from a workout in 5days but you do not train it again for 8days,you
will not get the same benefit than if you trained it on the 5th
day." In the program laid out for us as you all know it has only one
chest workout per week.I feel that i am recovered by Thurs/Fri if i
train chest monday so what do we do in this situation?
The last thing i want to know is why my progress is slow. I started
in August on intermediate and BB eating plan. Gradual increases in
strength at first and body weight went up about 4kg along with bf
about 2 more % to 86kg,26.5%....i am thinking i must be eating too
many calories fo bf to go up,so ive dropped it a little and my
weight has also gone down with bf aswell,so i am almost the same
weight and composition as 4-5 months ago. I have been following it
all very carefully too. Its frustrating all i can say is i have
gained a little strength although that is slowing. what am i doing
wrong?.
I wonder if the anabolic boost from carbs after a workout is worth a
try?
Any information is much appreciated thanks to everyone.

Luke

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--- In HormonalFitness@yahoogroups.com, Joel Rosart
<joel.rosart@g...> wrote:
>
> Upon further reading on PubMed, selenium toxicity is very real
and can occur
> at levels over 800 mcg per day. The safe limit would be 600
micrograms,
..............
> BUT, there's a caveat: the selenium toxicity threshold is
lowered
> by vitamins C and E. SO, if someone were supplementing with
9 grams of
> vitamin C and 1200 I.U. of vitamin E, they could easily handle
the 1200 mcg
> of selenium that Rob recommends taking during infection in
his flu report.

Hi Joel, Everyone,

New poster here. ;-) Thanks for the helpful info!

A correction, though:  For the "caveat'"to make sense, the word
"lowered" should be replaced by "raised".

If the toxicity threshold (the point at which the substance begins
to become toxic) is really lowered,  a smaller amount would be
toxic, not a greater amount.

If the threshold was  raised, a greater amount could be tolerated
without toxicity. This seems to be the effect of the vitamins C/E,
as indicated by the rest of your post.

So if the word "lowered' is in fact correct, ...then taking vitamins
C/E will INCREASE the danger of toxicity, not reduce it.

For the meaning to be clear, either the "caveat" sentence, or the
ones that follow it, ...need to be changed.

Comment?

Thanks,

Larry

Hi Joel,

Thanks for the information. I've taken it all in and have adjusted my
diet accordingly.  Flax oil seems to be really effective.   During
the holidays I had both good physical and emotional stamina &
energy.

I'll keep an eye on the BF% and will periodically lean out.  I am
hoping the BF% increase will be minimal.

I look foward to seeing how this all works out this year and will
keep you updated.

Cheers,

Jim





--- In HormonalFitness@yahoogroups.com, Joel Rosart
<joel.rosart@g...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Sounds like a plan, just remember to periodically lean out. Muscle
is
> important to good health but equally so is low BF%. On each cycle
(be it 2,
> 6, 12 months, whatever) really try to get a lower BF% then you've
ever had
> previously. In the end I'd say 10% would be a realistic goal for
most.
>
> Here is Udo Erasmus's article comparing flaxseed oil and fish oil:
>
> http://www.udoerasmus.com/articles/udo/fish_oil_pv.htm
>
> Here's a quote regarding DHA overdosing:
>
> When the body has as much DHA as it needs, feedback inhibition
stops further
> conversion. Without this inhibition, toxicity could result from
excess DHA
> production. Let me give an example. An analysis of fish oil studies
showed
> that too much fish oil increases inflammation due to the extreme
sensitivity
> of DHA to damage caused by oxidative stress4. Giving n-3 in the
more stable
> form of ALA is safer because it gives the body better metabolic
control and
> prevents DHA overdosing. Some prominent Canadian health researchers
have
> stated for more than 10 years that they prefer the basic n-3 ALA to
fish
> oils because of this better metabolic control that ALA affords the
body.
>
> My guess is that this would only be of concern when administering
large
> therapeutic doses of fish oil, maybe 4 tbsp's or more? I'd have to
look into
> it further.
>
> Headaches or nausea are common if a person is not accustomed to
eating large
> quantites of fats and oils. This should disappear after a couple of
weeks,
> although I would recommend spreading your fat intake over the day
anyways to
> achieve better satiety, digestion, etc. No need to take the 3 tbsp
of
> flaxseed oil all at once.
>
> Joel
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12/23/05, jrpw10 <jrpw10@y...> wrote:
> >
> >  Hi Joel,
> >
> > Thanks for responding.
> >
> > Well, in terms of the "wow", I've not been up to date with my
reading
> > on the NHE group site and have mainly been focusing on the book.
> > Recently, I think I've read about 25-35 emails in the archive
> > searching on "fat."
> >
> >
> > I only have a couple of questions right now as your response
provided
> > just what I was looking for.
> >
> > I will be incramentaly bumping up my fats/oils intake while
> > monitoring bodyfat% and strength increases.  When bf increases too
> > much, I'll back off a bit. This should land me an approximate
> > tolerance level.  And if strength levels decrease, I'll bump it up
> > and accept small levels of bf increase for the gain in strength.
> >
> > Here's my 2 questions.
> >
> > 1.  In regards to concerns about the short comings of consuming
fish
> > oils where Udo stated, "the largest one being that long chain oils
> > are more unstable than short chain oils and hence are more prone
to
> > causing oxidative damage in large doses."   Is there any word on
what
> > would be considered "large" doses of fish oil?
> >
> > 2. I get a headache when taking more than one tbsp of oil at a
time
> > (in a shake or on solid food)  Have you heard of this and is
there a
> > way around it or is it just a matter of adjusting to it over time?
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > P.S.  Ah summer . . . just a dream for us New Englanders right
now :/
> > 6 more months to go!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >    Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> >
>

Ive done the intermediate HIE program and am now putting together
Advanced program. It says in HIE to employ supersets during momentum
workouts but it does not say if we are supposed to do that on each
and every set of momentum....is this the case,or is it on some?
Next question is about chest training..in HIE it says in a
hypothetical(cant remember what page) "if your chest has recovered
from a workout in 5days but you do not train it again for 8days,you
will not get the same benefit than if you trained it on the 5th
day." In the program laid out for us as you all know it has only one
chest workout per week.I feel that i am recovered by Thurs/Fri if i
train chest monday so what do we do in this situation?
The last thing i want to know is why my progress is slow. I started
in August on intermediate and BB eating plan. Gradual increases in
strength at first and body weight went up about 4kg along with bf
about 2 more % to 86kg,26.5%....i am thinking i must be eating too
many calories fo bf to go up,so ive dropped it a little and my
weight has also gone down with bf aswell,so i am almost the same
weight and composition as 4-5 months ago. I have been following it
all very carefully too. Its frustrating all i can say is i have
gained a little strength although that is slowing. what am i doing
wrong?.
I wonder if the anabolic boost from carbs after a workout is worth a
try?
Any information is much appreciated thanks to everyone.

Luke

Hi Joel,

Thanks for responding.

Well, in terms of the "wow", I've not been up to date with my reading
on the NHE group site and have mainly been focusing on the book.
Recently, I think I've read about 25-35 emails in the archive
searching on "fat."


I only have a couple of questions right now as your response provided
just what I was looking for.

I will be incramentaly bumping up my fats/oils intake while
monitoring bodyfat% and strength increases.  When bf increases too
much, I'll back off a bit. This should land me an approximate
tolerance level.  And if strength levels decrease, I'll bump it up
and accept small levels of bf increase for the gain in strength.

Here's my 2 questions.

1.  In regards to concerns about the short comings of consuming fish
oils where Udo stated, "the largest one being that long chain oils
are more unstable than short chain oils and hence are more prone to
causing oxidative damage in large doses."   Is there any word on what
would be considered "large" doses of fish oil?

2. I get a headache when taking more than one tbsp of oil at a time
(in a shake or on solid food)  Have you heard of this and is there a
way around it or is it just a matter of adjusting to it over time?

Jim

P.S.  Ah summer . . . just a dream for us New Englanders right now :/
6 more months to go!

Thanks for the feedback!

Yes - I have seen Rob's thoughts on soy...in moderation.  Unfortunately, in
order to get the high protein with limited carbs, there are few other
options besides soy.  Most other protein powders carry carbs with them.

I will keep looking and would appreciate any other suggestions.


>From: Joel Rosart <joel.rosart@...>
>Reply-To: HormonalFitness@yahoogroups.com
>To: HormonalFitness@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [HormonalFitness] Re: vegan diets
>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:33:05 +1030
>
>Nathaniel, 4 bunches of broccoli?!? Granted, that will provide 70 grams of
>protein but it's also a lot of food! (Also low in lysine, methionine and
>tryptophan as Simon mentioned). I'm not sure what you consider a "bunch" to
>be, but according to the USDA nutrient database its 5.4 pounds!!! I'm not
>sure I've ever eaten 63 grams of fibre in a day.....
>
>Drake, have you read Rob's stance regarding soy?
>
>http://extique.com/askrob/soy-vs-whey.htm
>
>Rob is definitely pro soy in moderation. Therefore, I think it would be
>possible to do NHE by eating a moderate amount of soy products and also
>supplementing with soy powders that are phytoestrogen free (they do exist).
>As a vegan I'm sure you already know the supplements that are of extra
>benefit to you.
>
>I would certainly be interested in your experiences doing NHE vegan, I
>don't
>think we've had that many on this board!
>
>Best of luck,
>
>Joel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On 12/18/05, Nathaniel Geiger <nathanielg1987@...> wrote:
> >
> > In terms of protein quantity only, you can easily get a day's supply
> > of protein from eating 3 or 4 broccoli bunches a day(since broccoli
> > carbs do not count on the NHE eating plan) and adding nuts and other
> > veggies.  I think they even sell protein powders derived from
> > vegetables. You will probably have to learn about amino acid combining
> > to do this, however. And you will need to supplement with vitamins of
> > course.
> >
> > --- In HormonalFitness@yahoogroups.com, "Drake Taylor"
> > <veganman23@h...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi -
> > >
> > > I recently finished reading NHE and it looks like, unless I am going
> > > to use lots of soy (which I don't think it a real good thing because
> > > of phytoestrogens), vegans can't really do this.   Does anyone else
> > > have a different understanding?  I e-mailed Rob about this, but
> > > haven't heard anything back yet.
> > >
> > > Drake
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> >   Diet nutrition
>health<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Diet+nutrition+health&w1=Diet+nutrit\
ion+health&w2=Fitness+nutrition&w3=Food+nutrition+health&w4=Health+fitness+nutri\
tion&w5=Health+hi+nutrition+ocular&w6=Health+nutrition&c=6&s=161&.sig=13J7JMheyJ\
eOwkrWfu0y0Q>
>Fitness
> >
>nutrition<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Fitness+nutrition&w1=Diet+nutriti\
on+health&w2=Fitness+nutrition&w3=Food+nutrition+health&w4=Health+fitness+nutrit\
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_rBV84xY7eg>
>Food
> > nutrition
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tion&w5=Health+hi+nutrition+ocular&w6=Health+nutrition&c=6&s=161&.sig=8AiMXwm7Ai\
I8JX5wwN7veA>
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> > fitness
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+nutrition&w5=Health+hi+nutrition+ocular&w6=Health+nutrition&c=6&s=161&.sig=gwUH\
-fjwD8ZtAL8rwskr0Q>
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> > hi nutrition
>ocular<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+hi+nutrition+ocular&w1=Diet+n\
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2eZPXZZL4ZPfBfuBw>
>Health
> >
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n+health&w2=Fitness+nutrition&w3=Food+nutrition+health&w4=Health+fitness+nutriti\
on&w5=Health+hi+nutrition+ocular&w6=Health+nutrition&c=6&s=161&.sig=09jy9UTomDlX\
U3ZbHmJFuQ>
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> >

Hi everyone,

I've been looking through the archives on the former NHE list for
information on planning high fat/oil meals.   In one particular
message Joel detailed the fats and oils he included in his 6 meals
per day.

I got a "wow" out of it as I've been fiddling with much lower amounts
for the past couple of years.  I've recently increased to 3 tbsp of
flax oil daily.  Some of the effects, mainly increases in daily
energy and mental focus have been dramatic.

Before this, I was taking in 1.5 tbsp fish oil and 1-2 tbsp olive oil
plus meat fats and 2 servings of cheese daily. This was across 5
meals per day with 35 to 50 grams of protein per meal and 20 to 40
grams of quality carbs (mostly vegetables and fruits) per day. I also
upcycle on Wednesday and Saturday early evenings.

I think I've not been including enough fats and oils as for some time
now (last 8 months) my strength increases and bodyfat% have remained
pretty much the same.

  I'm 5' 8"  157 lbs  16% bf (down from 25% about 2 years ago.  I was
170 then)

I follow HIE lifting M W F and interval aerobic training Th and Sat.

Here's the "fats in the meals" message I found from Joel.
(I have added some questions below)

*******************************************************************

Meal 1 + 2: 4 tbsp cream, 1 tbsp flax oil, 1 tbsp olive oil with
protein shakes

Meal 3: Meat fat with nuts or seeds

Meal 4: 1 tbsp salad dressing, 1 tbsp sunflower seeds, 1 tbsp olive
oil, meat fat

Meal 5: Cottage cheese or regular cheese fat, 3 tbsp ground flaxseed,
1
tbsp peanut butter

Meal 6: Meat fat, 1 tbsp flax oil, butter fat

********************************************************************

Here's my questions.

A. Joel, are you still consuming this much fat in this kind of fat
type distribution?

B. It was mentioned in the message that when needing to build
strength/muscle one adds more fat, but that that can increase bodyfat
%.  Is there always this trade off?  Or,is it a matter of tweaking it
until strength desires are met and fat increases are minimal?

C. I read in one of the messages that it is recommended at least 3
tablespoons of flax seed oil be consumed daily.  Is this been enough
to balance off the other fats included above?

D. Finally, I've been reading adds regarding fish oils.   These adds
claim the ALA conversion from Flax Oils to omega 3 is not efficient
enough.  Is this true and if so, does it really matter?

Thanks!

Jim

P.S.  I really like the new spamless site  :)

Thanks for the feedback Mark and Joel.  I'm going to give it a shot
for a while and see if it does anything for me.  I purchased GNC's
PM Protein mix.

Mick

--- In HormonalFitness@yahoogroups.com, Joel Rosart
<joel.rosart@g...> wrote:
>
> Mickey,
>
> Personally, I'm not a huge fan of eating or consuming protein
supplements
> right before bed; I think it affects my sleeping patterns. That
said, there
> certainly could be some benefit to taking casein at night,
especially if
> training in the afternoon or later.
>
> Have you read the Ask Rob regarding casein and whey?
>
> http://extique.com/askrob/whey-vs-casein-protein.htm
>
> You may get some benefit but don't expect it to work like magic.
>
> Regards,
>
> Joel
>
>
>
>
> On 12/13/05, Mark Miller <mam@s...> wrote:
> >
> > Mickey,
> > Didn't know about casein protein and did a little research.
Seems to
> > make sense to take casein protein at night since it's absorbed
slower
> > and the need for protein is not as immediate, which is the
benefit for
> > whey protein.
> >
> > On a comical side note; Look up "casein" in the dictionary and it
> > says "A white, tasteless, odorless protein precipitated from
milk by
> > rennin. It is the basis of cheese and is used to make plastics,
> > adhesives, paints, and foods."
> >
> > Hmmm...used to make plastics, adhesives, paints...?  That's some
> > serious stuff.  :-)
> >
> > Mark

Haha, sorry FOUR bunches is 5.4 pounds. =)

Joel



--- In HormonalFitness@yahoogroups.com, Joel Rosart
<joel.rosart@g...> wrote:
>
> Nathaniel, 4 bunches of broccoli?!? Granted, that will provide 70
grams of
> protein but it's also a lot of food! (Also low in lysine,
methionine and
> tryptophan as Simon mentioned). I'm not sure what you consider
a "bunch" to
> be, but according to the USDA nutrient database its 5.4 pounds!!!
I'm not
> sure I've ever eaten 63 grams of fibre in a day.....
>
> Drake, have you read Rob's stance regarding soy?
>
> http://extique.com/askrob/soy-vs-whey.htm
>
> Rob is definitely pro soy in moderation. Therefore, I think it
would be
> possible to do NHE by eating a moderate amount of soy products and
also
> supplementing with soy powders that are phytoestrogen free (they
do exist).
> As a vegan I'm sure you already know the supplements that are of
extra
> benefit to you.
>
> I would certainly be interested in your experiences doing NHE
vegan, I don't
> think we've had that many on this board!
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Joel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12/18/05, Nathaniel Geiger <nathanielg1987@y...> wrote:
> >
> > In terms of protein quantity only, you can easily get a day's
supply
> > of protein from eating 3 or 4 broccoli bunches a day(since
broccoli
> > carbs do not count on the NHE eating plan) and adding nuts and
other
> > veggies.  I think they even sell protein powders derived from
> > vegetables. You will probably have to learn about amino acid
combining
> > to do this, however. And you will need to supplement with
vitamins of
> > course.
> >
> > --- In HormonalFitness@yahoogroups.com, "Drake Taylor"
> > <veganman23@h...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi -
> > >
> > > I recently finished reading NHE and it looks like, unless I am
going
> > > to use lots of soy (which I don't think it a real good thing
because
> > > of phytoestrogens), vegans can't really do this.   Does anyone
else
> > > have a different understanding?  I e-mailed Rob about this, but
> > > haven't heard anything back yet.
> > >
> > > Drake
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> >   Diet nutrition health<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Diet+nutrition+health&w1=Diet+nutrition+health&w2=Fitness+nutr
ition&w3=Food+nutrition+health&w4=Health+fitness+nutrition&w5=Health+
hi+nutrition+ocular&w6=Health+nutrition&c=6&s=161&.sig=13J7JMheyJeOwk
rWfu0y0Q> Fitness
> > nutrition<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Fitness+nutrition&w1=Diet+nutrition+health&w2=Fitness+nutritio
n&w3=Food+nutrition+health&w4=Health+fitness+nutrition&w5=Health+hi+n
utrition+ocular&w6=Health+nutrition&c=6&s=161&.sig=-
LZK5VRs_g7_rBV84xY7eg> Food
> > nutrition health<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Food+nutrition+health&w1=Diet+nutrition+health&w2=Fitness+nutr
ition&w3=Food+nutrition+health&w4=Health+fitness+nutrition&w5=Health+
hi+nutrition+ocular&w6=Health+nutrition&c=6&s=161&.sig=8AiMXwm7AiI8JX
5wwN7veA>  Health
> > fitness nutrition<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+fitness+nutrition&w1=Diet+nutrition+health&w2=Fitness+n
utrition&w3=Food+nutrition+health&w4=Health+fitness+nutrition&w5=Heal
th+hi+nutrition+ocular&w6=Health+nutrition&c=6&s=161&.sig=gwUH-
fjwD8ZtAL8rwskr0Q> Health
> > hi nutrition ocular<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+hi+nutrition+ocular&w1=Diet+nutrition+health&w2=Fitness
+nutrition&w3=Food+nutrition+health&w4=Health+fitness+nutrition&w5=He
alth+hi+nutrition+ocular&w6=Health+nutrition&c=6&s=161&.sig=__Etb2eZP
XZZL4ZPfBfuBw> Health
> > nutrition<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+nutrition&w1=Diet+nutrition+health&w2=Fitness+nutrition
&w3=Food+nutrition+health&w4=Health+fitness+nutrition&w5=Health+hi+nu
trition+ocular&w6=Health+nutrition&c=6&s=161&.sig=09jy9UTomDlXU3ZbHmJ
FuQ>
> >  ------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >    -  Visit your
group "HormonalFitness<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HormonalFitness>
"
> >    on the web.
> >
> >    -  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >     HormonalFitness-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<HormonalFitness-
unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> >    -  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> >    Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> >
>

In terms of protein quantity only, you can easily get a day's supply
of protein from eating 3 or 4 broccoli bunches a day(since broccoli
carbs do not count on the NHE eating plan) and adding nuts and other
veggies.  I think they even sell protein powders derived from
vegetables. You will probably have to learn about amino acid combining
to do this, however. And you will need to supplement with vitamins of
course.

--- In HormonalFitness@yahoogroups.com, "Drake Taylor"
<veganman23@h...> wrote:
>
> Hi -
>
> I recently finished reading NHE and it looks like, unless I am going
> to use lots of soy (which I don't think it a real good thing because
> of phytoestrogens), vegans can't really do this.   Does anyone else
> have a different understanding?  I e-mailed Rob about this, but
> haven't heard anything back yet.
>
> Drake
>

Hi -

I recently finished reading NHE and it looks like, unless I am going
to use lots of soy (which I don't think it a real good thing because
of phytoestrogens), vegans can't really do this.   Does anyone else
have a different understanding?  I e-mailed Rob about this, but
haven't heard anything back yet.

Drake

Mickey,
Didn't know about casein protein and did a little research.  Seems to
make sense to take casein protein at night since it's absorbed slower
and the need for protein is not as immediate, which is the benefit for
whey protein.

On a comical side note; Look up "casein" in the dictionary and it
says "A white, tasteless, odorless protein precipitated from milk by
rennin. It is the basis of cheese and is used to make plastics,
adhesives, paints, and foods."

Hmmm...used to make plastics, adhesives, paints...?  That's some
serious stuff.  :-)

Mark

--- In HormonalFitness@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mixsterdude@y...>
wrote:
>
> First, I'd like to thank Simon for starting this new group.
>
> I was wondering if any of you folks use casein protein at night.  If
> so, have you noticed any improvement in your recovery?  What product
> are you using?
>