Thanks for the comments.

I do have to raise a question. While Mentzer somehow noted progress with his
clients, what was his method of measurement for recovery? Was he doing blood
analysis as the Soviet coaching system did to pinpoint with precision the
recovery of an athlete? Microscopic analysis to determine white cell count?
Urine analysis to determine relative acidity? Or just guessing?

Jones was out of the business long before Fred Hatfield and others spent time in
the Soviet Union during the middle to late seventies, learning not only training
methods, but how those training methods were geared to precise scientific
measurement of an athlete's conditioning on a case by case basis. What's more,
the Soviet system introduced what we'd call stress management techniques to
educate voluntary control of autonomic nervous system factors geared to reducing
cortisol levels and other symptoms of over training. Such techniques were also
employed by Dr Karlis Ullis of UCLA medical school during his tenure as a sports
medicine physician/coach - including Olympic athletes.

I raise such questions simply because the Irongame has had many an "expert"
offering "scientific proclamations" in the absence of any solid methods and
measurements that are the backbone of genuine science. What's more, genuine
scientific reporting always includes a description of methods of measurement,
including specific equipment and how it was used. As a result, anyone else can
reduplicate the method for themselves.

Back in the early 80s, one of Weider's magazines ran a series on Soviet sport,
reporting on periodization that was so successful for Soviet athletes, and on
the nature of overtraining. There's not a lot that's mysterious about overtonus,
and there's a lot you can do about it. Since the blood becomes acidic,
overtraining can be more rapidly recovered from by means of adding a dose of
apple cider vinegar or baking soda to your daily intake - both are alkaline,
hence both neutralize acidity, thereby restoring pH to the desired level. A
simple home microscope can be used to count white blood cells with samples taken
by swabbing the inside of your cheek in the oral cavity. Blood testing requires
a laboratory.

The company Balco in the news of late due to supplying designer steroids to
baseball players, etc., originally started out dealing with over training and
performance optimization. Another side effect of over training is depletion of
electrolytes. The found athletes from all sorts of sports to be low in zinc and
magnesium. Putting them on standard calcium/magnesium supplements resulted in no
improvement. They found calcium present in all sorts of supplements - you have
to read the label's fine print of ingredients. Turns out the calcium competes
with uptake of both zinc and magnesium, so it's best to take them some hours
apart. ZMa came out of that work. All three electrolytes also effect blood
acidity, hence speed up recovery.

Stress mediates against all sorts of hormonal and metabolic processes. Books
have been written on the topic. Pelletier's Mind As Healer, Mind As Slayer is
still valid, and draws on Seyle's The Stress of Life and Stress without
Distress. Anyone using opiates and stimulatnts obviously did not have better
sense of stress management, much less its disasterous effects on the body and
training.

The gyms of the world have many well intentioned trainers in them. Many keep
records, resulting in successful training systems. Exercise physiology is an
emerging new discipline, at least west of the former Soviet empire. Poliquin's
work has done more to bring the wisdom of the holist science of Soviet sports to
the West. And laboratories are doing lots more work, albeit not always to the
satisfaction of high performance athletes. There is, however, an immense
difference between anecdotal information and hard core exercise science. Mr
Mentzer's observations should be taken into account, but not raised beyond the
level of discourse they are - Mentzer and science were miles apart.
nevertheless, taking Mentzer's findings and analysing them vis-a-vis deeper
scientific knowledge surely will result in vastly improved systems.

If  you go back to the August 2005 issue of Ironman Magazine, you will find my
interview with Dr. John Ivy there. John's work addresses recovery through
Nutrient Timing. His book outlines it in greater detail. And of all things, he
doesn't have a product to sell you. Instead, his simple little book will educate
you regarding the metabolic processes that occur during and after working out,
and how some simple ingredients make up a nutrient drink which in combination
with its use at crucial times does a lot to offset overtraining, and a lot to
stimulate natural anabolic hormonal responses.

In other words, while interesting, Mentzer's ideas stand as amateurish, imbued
with faulty presuppositions simply because he didn't do his homework. Those
knowing astonishingly less about the physiology of recovery and practical ways
to enhance it, are simply misled.

Now, that doesn't dis on HIT. In fact, it offers ways of improving HIT. At my
age I train 4-5 times weekly using the latest innovations of HIT and nutrient
timing. Anything less than four times weekly and I'm under trained. I dare say
if I'd known of these things in my 30s or 40s, I would have had the successes I
wanted then with a more youthful physiology to support them. And that's how I
learned that over training consists of a lot of variables, most of which are in
your control, resulting in shorter recovery times. Just imagine what Mentzer
would have done had he known that!



Ken ONeill
Long Life Fitness
kayoneill@...



----- Original Message -----
From: clint michels
To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 4/28/2006 2:26:30 PM
Subject: Re: [HIT Digest] once a week training


mikes book is based on the study of countless numbers of clients he has trained
over the years. it consisted of the general population with a very wide spectrum
of diversified genetics(some on and some not on the sauce).his findings are very
hard to dispute(arthur jones studies even more so, although i think mike has
refined hit a little better). when he was training on juice he worked out 3-4
days a week. he modified his training methods dramatically when he exited pro
body building.his findings were alifes work as he died after making his last
training video and barely getting his last book printed. as  far as muscles
recovering your leaving out the overall human system that need to recover. not
just the muscles. that is why it can take weeks before the novice and advanced
can return to the gym because they drain their reserves so dramatically when
they w-out.growth can only occur when the overall system has recovered. once
again i must state arthur jones and mike mentzer
have done numerous studies on the OVERALL population not just a small portion
with no financial gain to alter their results. when they talk about hit they
know what they are talking about. id recommend you read hit the mike mentzer
way. -peace.

Ken ONeill <kayoneill@...> wrote:  I'd heartily recommend Ellington
Darden's advise on nutrition, or John Berardi's - see John's From Scrawny to
Brawny for his advise on both training and diet (he holds a PhD in sports
nutrition along with some bodybuilding and power lifting titles, all drug-free).
The reason I mention them in preference to Mentzer is that Mike's actual
experience was tainted by performance enhancing agents, hence unless you're on
the sauce you'll not recapitulate his outcomes.

Newer scientific findings indicate recovery times, hence frequency of training,
vary. Legs require 96 hours for recuperation, while most everything else does
just fine with 72 hours. As such, a one week interval may actually result in
diminished returns - although is far better than overtraining with too great a
frequency and volume. That also says staggered upper body workouts can be
incorporated.

Ken ONeill
Long Life Fitness
kayoneill@...



----- Original Message -----
From: hmmmhmmhm
To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 4/26/2006 9:31:21 AM
Subject: Re: [HIT Digest] once a week training


Thanks Clint the thing i find hard to take in is im not that
advanced and the results mentzer speaks of on the onece a week two
set workout are amazing and mine at best were two rep increases . And
ive been told ive got fairly good genetics for building a fair bitt
of muscle. I find it hard to believe im at that stage yet of adding
more days as im nowhere near  my potential.I have considered cutting
it down to one sett a workout on my current once a week routine, what
do you think have you ever tryed that? Also id be intressted on your
opinion on protein? as i no Mentzer didnt go in for loads to be used
he seemed to foremost advocate a well balenced diet. Ive never gone
in for having loads as ive not noticed much difference between being
on it and not.
>  Cheers Jeremy
> once you stop making progress you need to regulate your frequency
and duration of w-out. it sounds like your duration is pretty good.so
id look to add another 3-5 days until you start making gains again.
alot of people think this is extreme but im on a 2-3 week rest
between workouts and i normally experience great gains. im a very
firm believer in mike mentzers methods and they havent failed me yet.
once you get to a three week rest though if you become that advanced
you probably dont need to worry about gains anymore because your
reaching the upper limit of your genetic potential not to say that
you couldnt get any bigger but youd be pushing it. peace.
>
> hmmmhmmhm <hmmmhmmhm@...> wrote:  Hi just joined but due to sheer
frustration i thought id post this.
> {i apologise if this is a old topic}
> I am on the once a week workout plan outlined in Mike Mentzers "The
> wisdom of Mike Mentzer" my workout is
> Stiff leg dead lifts with dips deads i do 5 to 8 reps and dips 6 to
> 10 reps.
> The next workout a week later i do squats 8 to 15 reps with close
> grip chins 6 to 10 reps
> The next week ill do work out one but i swap dips for pre exhaust
on
> shoulders, i do dumbell raises about 10 reps straight into seated
> front shoulder barbell press which is 2 to 4 reps.
> Then next time i do work out one ill do dipps again.
> I use forced reps and negatives every other work out.I only do one
> work set with 3 to 4 warm ups.
> Ive been on this for 5 months to begin with i made good progress
> more or less every workout i was on creatine to.Then about 2months
> ago i stopped making any real improvements ive stopped the creatine
> but this didnt make a drmmatic effect as ive not got weaker ive
just
> stagnated.
> And i have lost weight my metabalism has spedd up, which im happy
> about as i havent tryed to lose it really but i have lost fat even,
> though ive been eating more, junk food etc
> I woundered if any one else is on a similar work out and how there
> getting on? My diets the same more or less apart from more junk
food.
> I may just need to add more days but since this once a week thing
> hasnt worked much better than, my previous once every 4 days i am
> apprehensive. Any thoughts would be welcome?
> Thanks Jeremy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> and change your subscription settings.
>
> The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com
>
> HIT Digest email addresses:
>   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
>   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
>
> Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> ------------------------------------
>
> Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>     Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.
>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low
rates.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>









To get this in a Digest form, please go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
and change your subscription settings.

The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com

HIT Digest email addresses:
   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest

Please review the Rules of the Digest at
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
------------------------------------

Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
------------------------------------




SPONSORED LINKS Health fitness franchise Fitness health Health fitness product
Fitness nutrition Health nutrition Womens health fitness magazine



YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





To get this in a Digest form, please go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
and change your subscription settings.

The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com

HIT Digest email addresses:
   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest

Please review the Rules of the Digest at
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
------------------------------------

Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
------------------------------------




   SPONSORED LINKS
         Health fitness franchise   Fitness health   Health fitness product    
Fitness nutrition   Health nutrition   Womens health fitness magazine

---------------------------------
   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


     Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.

     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------





---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





To get this in a Digest form, please go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
and change your subscription settings.

The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com

HIT Digest email addresses:
   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest

Please review the Rules of the Digest at
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
------------------------------------

Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
------------------------------------




SPONSORED LINKS Health fitness franchise Fitness health Health fitness product
Fitness nutrition Health nutrition Womens health fitness magazine



YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

  Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I do a total upper body workout on monday and legs on thursday and
miss one leg workout a month because i never fail to go up in weight
or reps and need the extra rest.




> -- - Hi Chris id be intrested to hear how often you train? The guy
i
> train with had 4 months off training due to injury and he has come
> back stronger from Jeremy
> >
> > One workout i was doing rear deltoids. I was doing the standing
> cable
> > rear delt crossover which is the best exercise for it also.
> >
> > I warmed up . I then stuck the weight on the weight i thought i
> would
> > do around 8 reps with.
> >
> > I did the set and i stopped at 2 reps and said wow this is light.
> >
> > I then went up in weight and at the 2nd rep it still felt light.
So
> i
> > stopped, rested and  put the weight on 60 pounds heavier than the
> > weight i would normally use.
> >
> > The thing is it was a month since i last did the exercise.
> >
> > I then did my one set to failure and did 11 reps and went up 60
> > pounds on an exercise where its hard to even go up 5 pounds.
> >
> > You would think i would get sore, or get some effect from this
set.
> >
> > But day after day, week after week , nothing. No soreness, no
> growth.
> > Just feel like i did before i did the workout.
> >
> > 2 and 1/2 months later went bye. I woke up and i felt like my
rear
> > deltoids were beatin with a baseball bat. I felt like i did as if
i
> > just finished the set of fly's.
> >
> > I couldnt even go in to lift that day or the next. For the next
> week
> > i could feel my rear delts getting bigger and stronger.
> >
> > Since it can take a week to recover from doing one set to failure
> and
> > going up just 5 pounds or 1 rep, . It wasnt hard for me to
> understand
> > really why it might take so long to recover from going up 60
pounds
> > and 4 reps.
> >
> > Someone will say it takes longer for me to recover. The answer to
> > that is no. I have one of  the greatest recovery abilities of
> almost
> > anyone except pros on steroids.  More later , chris
> >
>

can you tell us more about it? is aviform a brand name or a grade of whey?

Ken ONeill
Long Life Fitness
kayoneill@...



----- Original Message -----
From: hmmmhmmhm
To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 4/28/2006 9:21:03 AM
Subject: [HIT Digest] aviform protein


Hi id like to no if any one has used the Whey protein aviform do? its
called "ultra whey protein isolate 94" im thinking of giveing it a go
its cheep but has no swetners etc in it
Cheers Jeremy







To get this in a Digest form, please go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
and change your subscription settings.

The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com

HIT Digest email addresses:
   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest

Please review the Rules of the Digest at
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
------------------------------------

Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
------------------------------------




SPONSORED LINKS Health fitness franchise Fitness health Health fitness product
Fitness nutrition Health nutrition Womens health fitness magazine



YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

  Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mikes book is based on the study of countless numbers of clients he has trained
over the years. it consisted of the general population with a very wide spectrum
of diversified genetics(some on and some not on the sauce).his findings are very
hard to dispute(arthur jones studies even more so, although i think mike has
refined hit a little better). when he was training on juice he worked out 3-4
days a week. he modified his training methods dramatically when he exited pro
body building.his findings were alifes work as he died after making his last
training video and barely getting his last book printed. as  far as muscles
recovering your leaving out the overall human system that need to recover. not
just the muscles. that is why it can take weeks before the novice and advanced
can return to the gym because they drain their reserves so dramatically when
they w-out.growth can only occur when the overall system has recovered. once
again i must state arthur jones and mike mentzer
  have done numerous studies on the OVERALL population not just a small portion
with no financial gain to alter their results. when they talk about hit they
know what they are talking about. id recommend you read hit the mike mentzer
way. -peace.

Ken ONeill <kayoneill@...> wrote:  I'd heartily recommend Ellington
Darden's advise on nutrition, or John Berardi's - see John's From Scrawny to
Brawny for his advise on both training and diet (he holds a PhD in sports
nutrition along with some bodybuilding and power lifting titles, all drug-free).
The reason I mention them in preference to Mentzer is that Mike's actual
experience was tainted by performance enhancing agents, hence unless you're on
the sauce you'll not recapitulate his outcomes.

Newer scientific findings indicate recovery times, hence frequency of training,
vary. Legs require 96 hours for recuperation, while most everything else does
just fine with 72 hours. As such, a one week interval may actually result in
diminished returns - although is far better than overtraining with too great a
frequency and volume. That also says staggered upper body workouts can be
incorporated.

Ken ONeill
Long Life Fitness
kayoneill@...



----- Original Message -----
From: hmmmhmmhm
To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 4/26/2006 9:31:21 AM
Subject: Re: [HIT Digest] once a week training


Thanks Clint the thing i find hard to take in is im not that
advanced and the results mentzer speaks of on the onece a week two
set workout are amazing and mine at best were two rep increases . And
ive been told ive got fairly good genetics for building a fair bitt
of muscle. I find it hard to believe im at that stage yet of adding
more days as im nowhere near  my potential.I have considered cutting
it down to one sett a workout on my current once a week routine, what
do you think have you ever tryed that? Also id be intressted on your
opinion on protein? as i no Mentzer didnt go in for loads to be used
he seemed to foremost advocate a well balenced diet. Ive never gone
in for having loads as ive not noticed much difference between being
on it and not.
>  Cheers Jeremy
> once you stop making progress you need to regulate your frequency
and duration of w-out. it sounds like your duration is pretty good.so
id look to add another 3-5 days until you start making gains again.
alot of people think this is extreme but im on a 2-3 week rest
between workouts and i normally experience great gains. im a very
firm believer in mike mentzers methods and they havent failed me yet.
once you get to a three week rest though if you become that advanced
you probably dont need to worry about gains anymore because your
reaching the upper limit of your genetic potential not to say that
you couldnt get any bigger but youd be pushing it. peace.
>
> hmmmhmmhm <hmmmhmmhm@...> wrote:  Hi just joined but due to sheer
frustration i thought id post this.
> {i apologise if this is a old topic}
> I am on the once a week workout plan outlined in Mike Mentzers "The
> wisdom of Mike Mentzer" my workout is
> Stiff leg dead lifts with dips deads i do 5 to 8 reps and dips 6 to
> 10 reps.
> The next workout a week later i do squats 8 to 15 reps with close
> grip chins 6 to 10 reps
> The next week ill do work out one but i swap dips for pre exhaust
on
> shoulders, i do dumbell raises about 10 reps straight into seated
> front shoulder barbell press which is 2 to 4 reps.
> Then next time i do work out one ill do dipps again.
> I use forced reps and negatives every other work out.I only do one
> work set with 3 to 4 warm ups.
> Ive been on this for 5 months to begin with i made good progress
> more or less every workout i was on creatine to.Then about 2months
> ago i stopped making any real improvements ive stopped the creatine
> but this didnt make a drmmatic effect as ive not got weaker ive
just
> stagnated.
> And i have lost weight my metabalism has spedd up, which im happy
> about as i havent tryed to lose it really but i have lost fat even,
> though ive been eating more, junk food etc
> I woundered if any one else is on a similar work out and how there
> getting on? My diets the same more or less apart from more junk
food.
> I may just need to add more days but since this once a week thing
> hasnt worked much better than, my previous once every 4 days i am
> apprehensive. Any thoughts would be welcome?
> Thanks Jeremy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> and change your subscription settings.
>
> The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com
>
> HIT Digest email addresses:
>   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
>   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
>
> Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> ------------------------------------
>
> Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>     Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.
>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low
rates.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>









To get this in a Digest form, please go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
and change your subscription settings.

The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com

HIT Digest email addresses:
   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest

Please review the Rules of the Digest at
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
------------------------------------

Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
------------------------------------




SPONSORED LINKS Health fitness franchise Fitness health Health fitness product
Fitness nutrition Health nutrition Womens health fitness magazine



YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





To get this in a Digest form, please go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
and change your subscription settings.

The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com

HIT Digest email addresses:
   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest

Please review the Rules of the Digest at
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
------------------------------------

Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
------------------------------------




   SPONSORED LINKS
         Health fitness franchise   Fitness health   Health fitness product    
Fitness nutrition   Health nutrition   Womens health fitness magazine

---------------------------------
   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


     Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.

     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------





---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi id like to no if any one has used the Whey protein aviform do? its
called "ultra whey protein isolate 94" im thinking of giveing it a go
its cheep but has no swetners etc in it
Cheers Jeremy

Hi all,

   I made a little writing error, weeks should have been months, I have been on
the D.C.T. abut 10 months, give or take.

   Wayne

   Hi there all,

   the below is a little up-date from my last one, back on the 30
   reppers, 20 was to easy hehehe only joking,

   This working from the purest isolation to a not so much isolation
   and then to maybe a compound movement is working far better then I
   ever though.

   Hi John, see you did not except my apology, you did get it ??? Did
   you not ??? All I can do is say sorry again. Can not believe it's
   nearly a year on John Casler's, Direst Compensation Training, below
   is my interpretation of John's training, as you can see there is
   nearly full linear progress for about 9 months.

   Here my triceps pulley extension, I did this training on all
   bodyparts if you want more information please say, but I just
   thought I would put these lifts, reps, sets in, all other bodyparts
   went roughly the same as this. Weight was added to each set on each
   new training session, and remember I am an advanced lifter, 45, and
   been training
   for over 30 years.

   Direct Compensation training,

   1/2 rep speed,

   Hypertrophy,
   Set 1, 30 reps, rest 5 minutes, set 2, add 25% 15 reps, rest 5
   minutes, set 3 Add 15% 10 reps, set 4, drop down weight to your
   first or second sets weights, And do a full stop at the top and
   bottom to take advantage of Good recognition Of the role of stretch
   in sarcolemma (cell membrane of a muscle fiber or muscle Cell. The
   membrane is designed to receive and conduct stimuli.) Disruption.

   Strength,
   Set 1, 20 reps, rest 5 minutes, set 2, add 25% 15 reps, rest 5
   minutes, set 3 add 15% 10 reps, set 4, which is 5 reps, drop down
   weight to your second sets weights, and do a full stop at the top
   and bottom to take advantage of Good recognition of the role of
   stretch in sarcolemma (cell membrane of a muscle fiber or muscle
   cell. The membrane is designed to receive and conduct stimuli.)
   Disruption.

   The Mental, Metabolic, and Motor limits are explored with this type
   of training and "each" can create its own limiting factor. To reach
   Maximum Potential, one must be prepared to recognize the stimulus
   needed for the goal (load/volume/time wise) and develop each of
   those limiting factors to allow maximum or high percentage results.

   On the fist few sessions the first set was not to failure, but after
   about 8
   Sessions all sets were to complete failure.

   30, 15, 10, 10,
   30, 15, 10, 10,
   28, 15, 10, 10,
   30, 15, 10, 10,
   30, 15, 10, 10,
   30, 15, 10, 10,
   30, 15, 8, 10,
   30, 15, 11, 10,
   32, 15, 10, 10,
   30, 16, 10, 10,
   33, 18, 15, 10,
   27, 16, 11, 10,
   28, 15, 10, 10,
   30, 13, 11, 10,
   24, 15, 10, 10,
   27, 15, 10, 10,
   28, 12, 8, 10,
   30, 15, 10, 10,
   30, 14, 8, 10,
   25, 15, 10, 10,
   30, 12, 10, 10
   24, 15, 7, 10,
   25, 12, 7, 10,
   26, 15, 10, 10,
   30, 14, 10, 9,
   29, 15, 10, 10
   Here I rested for 10 days and decided to add more weigh and lower
   the first set
   To 20,
   20, 12, 8, 10,
   21, 14, 10, 11,
   21, 14, 6, 12,
   20, 15, 8, 12,
   20, 13, 8, 12,
   20, 11, 10, 10,
   20, 12, 8, 10,
   18, 15, 9, 11,
   21, 15, 7, 10,
   20, 13, 10, 10,
   20, 13, 9, 9,
   20, 15, 9, 10,
   20, 11, 10, 10,
   20, 12, 7, 10,
   17, 13, 7, 10

   After about 9 weeks of Direct Compensation Training, with just about
   full progress, I decided to change from a more isolation exercise
   the pulley triceps extension, to the a slightly less isolation
   exersices, the triceps pressdown, with uses more of the stabilises,
   and you can use more weight.

   Used the same weight (except first set) that I was using on the
   pulley triceps extension, on the triceps pressdown, tonight, here
   are the good results,

   30, 16, 13, 15,

   The great thing on this program is I reached the weight (far more
   now) I was using at the start of the program, for 10 reps, for 30
   reps; Wow can't believe that. I have similar results on, the leg
   extension, Finnish off with one set leg curls, leg press, alternate
   leg press and leg extension each three to four days, machine lateral
   raise, and Finnish off with one set shoulder press, machine curls,
   or EZ curls calf raise, nautilus pullover, Finnish off with one set
   pulldowns or rows, wrist curl, reverse curl, shrugs and dead lifts.

   Wayne









   To get this in a Digest form, please go to
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
   and change your subscription settings.

   The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com

   HIT Digest email addresses:
     Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
     Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
     Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
     List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com

   Shortcut URL to this page:
     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest

   Please review the Rules of the Digest at
   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
   ------------------------------------

   Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
   ------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

www.ironmind.com

Captains of Crush Gripper. Check out the website and it will tell
you all about them.

Happy Crushing.




--- In Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Lurie <dl1021@...> wrote:
>
> extremesgs extremesgs wrote:
> > CoC gripper: 1 X max time hold OR max reps, OR gripper I can't
close:
> > forced
> > reps  OR Farmer's Walk, OR Wrist Roller.
> I'm almost afraid to ask...What is a CoC gripper?
>

Hi there all,

the below is a little up-date from my last one, back on the 30
reppers, 20 was to easy hehehe only joking,

This working from the purest isolation to a not so much isolation
and then to maybe a compound movement is working far better then I
ever though.

Hi John, see you did not except my apology, you did get it ??? Did
you not ??? All I can do is say sorry again. Can not believe it's
nearly a year on John Casler's, Direst Compensation Training, below
is my interpretation of John's training, as you can see there is
nearly full linear progress for about 9 months.

Here my triceps pulley extension, I did this training on all
bodyparts if you want more information please say, but I just
thought I would put these lifts, reps, sets in, all other bodyparts
went roughly the same as this. Weight was added to each set on each
new training session, and remember I am an advanced lifter, 45, and
been training
for over 30 years.

Direct Compensation training,

1/2 rep speed,

Hypertrophy,
Set 1, 30 reps, rest 5 minutes, set 2, add 25% 15 reps, rest 5
minutes, set 3 Add 15% 10 reps, set 4, drop down weight to your
first or second sets weights, And do a full stop at the top and
bottom to take advantage of Good recognition Of the role of stretch
in sarcolemma (cell membrane of a muscle fiber or muscle Cell. The
membrane is designed to receive and conduct stimuli.) Disruption.

Strength,
Set 1, 20 reps, rest 5 minutes, set 2, add 25% 15 reps, rest 5
minutes, set 3 add 15% 10 reps, set 4, which is 5 reps, drop down
weight to your second sets weights, and do a full stop at the top
and bottom to take advantage of Good recognition of the role of
stretch in sarcolemma (cell membrane of a muscle fiber or muscle
cell. The membrane is designed to receive and conduct stimuli.)
Disruption.

The Mental, Metabolic, and Motor limits are explored with this type
of training and "each" can create its own limiting factor. To reach
Maximum Potential, one must be prepared to recognize the stimulus
needed for the goal (load/volume/time wise) and develop each of
those limiting factors to allow maximum or high percentage results.

On the fist few sessions the first set was not to failure, but after
about 8
Sessions all sets were to complete failure.

30, 15, 10, 10,
30, 15, 10, 10,
28, 15, 10, 10,
30, 15, 10, 10,
30, 15, 10, 10,
30, 15, 10, 10,
30, 15, 8, 10,
30, 15, 11, 10,
32, 15, 10, 10,
30, 16, 10, 10,
33, 18, 15, 10,
27, 16, 11, 10,
28, 15, 10, 10,
30, 13, 11, 10,
24, 15, 10, 10,
27, 15, 10, 10,
28, 12, 8, 10,
30, 15, 10, 10,
30, 14, 8, 10,
25, 15, 10, 10,
30, 12, 10, 10
24, 15, 7, 10,
25, 12, 7, 10,
26, 15, 10, 10,
30, 14, 10, 9,
29, 15, 10, 10
Here I rested for 10 days and decided to add more weigh and lower
the first set
To 20,
20, 12, 8, 10,
21, 14, 10, 11,
21, 14, 6, 12,
20, 15, 8, 12,
20, 13, 8, 12,
20, 11, 10, 10,
20, 12, 8, 10,
18, 15, 9, 11,
21, 15, 7, 10,
20, 13, 10, 10,
20, 13, 9, 9,
20, 15, 9, 10,
20, 11, 10, 10,
20, 12, 7, 10,
17, 13, 7, 10

After about 9 weeks of Direct Compensation Training, with just about
full progress, I decided to change from a more isolation exercise
the pulley triceps extension, to the a slightly less isolation
exersices, the triceps pressdown, with uses more of the stabilises,
and you can use more weight.

Used the same weight (except first set) that I was using on the
pulley triceps extension, on the triceps pressdown, tonight, here
are the good results,

30, 16, 13, 15,

The great thing on this program is I reached the weight (far more
now) I was using at the start of the program, for 10 reps, for 30
reps; Wow can't believe that. I have similar results on, the leg
extension, Finnish off with one set leg curls, leg press, alternate
leg press and leg extension each three to four days, machine lateral
raise, and Finnish off with one set shoulder press, machine curls,
or EZ curls calf raise, nautilus pullover, Finnish off with one set
pulldowns or rows, wrist curl, reverse curl, shrugs and dead lifts.

Wayne

extremesgs extremesgs wrote:
> CoC gripper: 1 X max time hold OR max reps, OR gripper I can't close:
> forced
> reps  OR Farmer's Walk, OR Wrist Roller.
I'm almost afraid to ask...What is a CoC gripper?

Randall Strossen owns Ironmind. What a compelling catalogue they produce. Hide
your credit card when you get that catalog!

McCallum ran a column in Muscular Development when John Grimek editted it as a
York publication in the sixties. Many of us waited impatiently around the time
it was due in the mail to read McCallum's latest installment. He could write a
compelling article as a story. And he advocated breathing squats, not as
something he invented, but as an old standby way of packing on mass over the
short term. Dennis Weiss, the Yukon Hercules, also advocates them, Dennis is
about my age, wrote for years in the Rader's Ironman, and may have published
with Hardgainer as well. I seem to remember Ironman's publisher, Peary Rader,
had great success with them in the 30s.

McCallum's book is well worth reading. After his death, McCallum either got
cooperation from his descendants or purchased the rights from them, then
gathered all the articles into a single book. The book is pre-Arthur Jones, no
doubt something he read or was in the same stream of thought with. McCallum was
also big on the 5x5 routine of compound mass builders.

A lot of people dis on those methods as being "old school". Frankly, they're
tried and true for many an irongame practitioner. I see them not as old school
but as perennial truthes. Part of the great experiment is finding out what works
for you, or modified works for you, and eliminating what doesn't.

It should also be known that exercise science did not really exist at that time.
Last year I published a cover story article in Ironman on Nutrient Timing, a
long interview with Dr John Ivy, chair of the dept of kinesiology at the
University of Texas, Austin. Spent several hours with him in his office. Since
we're the same age, we talked about how he'd forged a career. I left high school
wanting to do the things he's done, but there were no programs, no laboratories
at that time. John attended college on baseball and football scholarships, and
only in his junior year had a class from a new PhD that took him from a PE major
into sports physiology. After two post-doc positions in  research labs, he
struck out on a professorship tenure track position, literally creating his part
of the field. A move to Austin resulted in being permanently settled and
developing his labs. Dr John Berardi was an adjunct with him for a spell. John's
incredibly fit, looking far  younger than he is. Yes, he trains four times
weekly.

All of which is to say John, myself, Randall Strossen and others grew up with
the McCallums as our mentors in print. By the time Art Jones was publishing, he
had little scientific material to cite. He, too, created a discipline. And
spurred laboratory based research - not nearly enough of it by my standards and
interests.

Another figure at UT Austin are Terry and Jan Todd. Their Todd-McLean Physical
Culture archive is the largest special collections of strength related books,
periodicals, ephemera, private papers, etc., in the world with more than 200,000
items. Terry was with Strength and Health in the 60s, the first super
heavyweight powerlifting champion, then author. Jan was the first woman to squat
in excess of 500 lbs close to 30 years ago; at 58/59 she still deadlifts over
400! They wrote the first books on powerlifting and senior weight training. And
Terry coaches the amazing Mark Henry (those three hundred pound barbell plates
out at their ranch are awesome).

So, with all this discussion, we're still in the early stages of an emerging
science. And far from a place where there's enough evidence for a fair trial.
That leaves us all free to be living laboratories and living experiments in
bodybuliding. awesome.

Ken ONeill
Long Life Fitness
kayoneill@...



----- Original Message -----
From: xhawks97
To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 4/27/2006 1:34:29 PM
Subject: Re: [HIT Digest] SuperSquats


The book is by Randall Stossen - I believe he owns or runs Ironmind
as well. There are quotes in the book from Mccallum that date back
to the early 60's so it probably is the same program just rehashed.
I think Dr Dave has something with the rotating of routines to avoid
the boredom you mention

--- In Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com, "Ken ONeill" <kayoneill@...> wrote:
>
> Haha. That's an old, old routine, one made famous probably in the
1930s, if not earlier. Every so often it reappears under a new name
by a new author, pretending to be a breakthrough. I believe Ironmind
has a version of it in print, if it's not the same as the one
mentioned in this thread.
>
> I did that routine when I was 19 years old, back in 1963. And
lasted the six weeks. That was the pre-Arthur Jones era, in fact,
almost the pre-power rack/isometronics era. Brutal? Yes. Demanding?
yes. boring? incredibly so. And a real test for separating the
willful from those finding excuses to rationalize failure of nerve.
Does it work? Incredibly so.
>
> As with Jones and Mentzer, it's a moment in Irongame history that
has been superceded by newer, now laboratory and coaching based,
muscle science. For a fairly new trainer, however, it will pack on a
lot of muscle. So will a routine based on squats, deadlifts, bent
rowing, bench presses and behind the neck presses.
>
> Any of these methods demand one thing: throw away or at least
suspend everything you've read and JUST DO IT. And eat right and
sleep right.
>
> Ken ONeill
> Long Life Fitness
> kayoneill@...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: xhawks97
> To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 4/26/2006 11:09:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [HIT Digest] SuperSquats
>
>
> The Supersquats book is an easy read and is built around the 20
rep
> breathing squat and a whole body routine performed 2 to 3 times a
> week. The recomendation is to rotate this I believe he mentions
> every 6 weeks with a 5 x 5 routine.
>
> I have to agree with Miguel - The 20 reppers are brutal and I
> couldn't imagine being faced with having to do them more than once
a
> week. I suppose that's why he has the switch up every 6 weeks
>
> Wayne - how long did you do 20's for and how many times a week did
> you squat ??
>
>
> --- In Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Angel Perez
> <metalhead2_mx@> wrote:
> >
> > When I've tried double-digit squats, it was so
> > stressful I couldn't seem to progress.
> >
> > Wayne, 400x20 is impressive (if a full range was
> > used), too bad it didn't work for what you wanted.
> >
> >  --- WAYNE <waynegr@> escribió:
> >
> > >
> > >   I had to stop squatting for knee pain, and bad
> > > knees, they are fine now, I also got bad headaches
> > > from them. I was squatting well over 400lbs for 20
> > > reps. as soon as I switched to other exercises,
> > > namely leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls.
> > > Within 2 to 4 weeks of switching to these exercises
> > > I measured a ¾ in increase in my both legs.
> > >
> > >   The reason I stuck to squats for so long was
> > > because of people saying how great an exercise it is
> > > and that if you keep on adding weight eventually you
> > > will get bigger. The old strength = size argument, I
> > > did not gain size on squats.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   However I have hear some do gain size with the
> > > squats, and I have hear some say the book is great,
> > > and some say the book is not very good. I am more
> > > for pure hypertrophy only, with the likes of
> > > isolation movements, I find the prime action of the
> > > muscle, what it evolved to do primary, builds it far
> > > better than "most" compound movements, that is not
> > > at all to say I am against compounds.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   Wayne
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   Lenny,
> > >
> > >   I was always curious about that SuperSquats book.
> > >   Every time someone mentions it, they mention it's
> > >   great.  What's the routine it proposes?
> > >
> > >    --- extremesgs extremesgs
> > > <extremesgs@>
> > >   escribió:
> > >
> > >   > sacredsystem....   you beat me to it.
> > >   >
> > >   > et. al,
> > >   >
> > >   > I have tried the program in the book, and it did
> > > not
> > >   > work. In fact, I stuck
> > >   > to it better than I'd stuck with any other
> > > program
> > >   > (with age came
> > >   > discipline). i went back to a strict, but
> > >   > calorie-sensible diet, along with
> > >   > a variation of the Super Squats routine, and
> > > started
> > >   > making my gains almost
> > >   > immediately. That's what works for me, and has
> > > since
> > >   > high school.
> > >   >
> > >   > Write a book? hmmm  now there's an idea.
> > > Someone
> > >   > beat me to it- its
> > >   > called "Super Squats: How to gain 30 pounds of
> > >   > muscle in 6 weeks"  and it
> > >   > works for me...     but maybe not for you.
> > >   >
> > >   > L
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >
> > >
> > >   __________________________________________________
> > >   Correo Yahoo!
> > >   Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y
> > > antispam ¡gratis!
> > >   Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> > >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> > >   and change your subscription settings.
> > >
> > >   The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump!
> > > http://www.cyberpump.com
> > >
> > >   HIT Digest email addresses:
> > >     Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
> > >     Subscribe:
> > > Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >     Unsubscribe:
> > > Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >     List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >   Shortcut URL to this page:
> > >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> > >
> > >   Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> > >   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> > >   ------------------------------------
> > >
> > >   Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> > >   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> > >   ------------------------------------
> > >
> > >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Correo Yahoo!
> > Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
> > Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> and change your subscription settings.
>
> The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com
>
> HIT Digest email addresses:
>   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
>   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
>
> Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> ------------------------------------
>
> Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>









To get this in a Digest form, please go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
and change your subscription settings.

The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com

HIT Digest email addresses:
   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest

Please review the Rules of the Digest at
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
------------------------------------

Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
------------------------------------





YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

  Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, I have John's books - he gave me a set of everything last year. He's in the
mode you mention, something I cannot and will not do. Those low rep ranges never
added an iota of size for me but did make me stronger for a spell. That's not to
dis on his system, merely to state that such is inappropriate for myself.

His DVD and Gourmet Nutrition are incredibly good. Our doctor, a board certifier
in life extension medicine and Paleo Diet fan, got my wife on that diet a few
months ago for a variety of reasons. One night I put the Berardi DVD on the
computer to watch, headphones on, as she was watching a movie. After a few
minutes she wanted to hear what he was saying along with his Powerpoint
presentation. She watched the whole video, looked at the book, then went
shopping the next day. John actually takes you through a grocery store showing
you how to shop, read labels, etc  in both the book and video. What I like about
the book is that it's not confined to bland food but has an international flavor
with healthy use of spices and herbs.

In my opinion, based on personal experience, I believe a range of varying reps
is important. Hypertrophy or growth with progressive resistance needs to hit a
spectrum of muscle fiber types. the 6-10 range promotes growth, but bigger
growth includes a set or two taken to exhaustion with upwards of 15 reps (higher
still for calves and forearms) to ensure developing those capillary beds that
make master bodybuilders high endurance athletes. lower reps don't address that
development.

Ken ONeill
Long Life Fitness
kayoneill@...



----- Original Message -----
From: xhawks97
To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 4/27/2006 1:24:13 PM
Subject: Re: [HIT Digest] once a week training


Ken -

Do you have Berardi's book ?? I saw a copy at the local bookstore
and glanced thru it quickly. I did notice that he had 4 or 5
different phases and one of them was 5x5 training


--- In Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com, "Ken ONeill" <kayoneill@...> wrote:
>
> I'd heartily recommend Ellington Darden's advise on nutrition, or
John Berardi's - see John's From Scrawny to Brawny for his advise on
both training and diet (he holds a PhD in sports nutrition along
with some bodybuilding and power lifting titles, all drug-free). The
reason I mention them in preference to Mentzer is that Mike's actual
experience was tainted by performance enhancing agents, hence unless
you're on the sauce you'll not recapitulate his outcomes.
>
> Newer scientific findings indicate recovery times, hence frequency
of training, vary. Legs require 96 hours for recuperation, while
most everything else does just fine with 72 hours. As such, a one
week interval may actually result in diminished returns - although
is far better than overtraining with too great a frequency and
volume. That also says staggered upper body workouts can be
incorporated.
>
> Ken ONeill
> Long Life Fitness
> kayoneill@...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hmmmhmmhm
> To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 4/26/2006 9:31:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [HIT Digest] once a week training
>
>
> Thanks Clint the thing i find hard to take in is im not that
> advanced and the results mentzer speaks of on the onece a week two
> set workout are amazing and mine at best were two rep increases .
And
> ive been told ive got fairly good genetics for building a fair
bitt
> of muscle. I find it hard to believe im at that stage yet of
adding
> more days as im nowhere near  my potential.I have considered
cutting
> it down to one sett a workout on my current once a week routine,
what
> do you think have you ever tryed that? Also id be intressted on
your
> opinion on protein? as i no Mentzer didnt go in for loads to be
used
> he seemed to foremost advocate a well balenced diet. Ive never
gone
> in for having loads as ive not noticed much difference between
being
> on it and not.
> >  Cheers Jeremy
> > once you stop making progress you need to regulate your
frequency
> and duration of w-out. it sounds like your duration is pretty
good.so
> id look to add another 3-5 days until you start making gains
again.
> alot of people think this is extreme but im on a 2-3 week rest
> between workouts and i normally experience great gains. im a very
> firm believer in mike mentzers methods and they havent failed me
yet.
> once you get to a three week rest though if you become that
advanced
> you probably dont need to worry about gains anymore because your
> reaching the upper limit of your genetic potential not to say that
> you couldnt get any bigger but youd be pushing it. peace.
> >
> > hmmmhmmhm <hmmmhmmhm@> wrote:  Hi just joined but due to sheer
> frustration i thought id post this.
> > {i apologise if this is a old topic}
> > I am on the once a week workout plan outlined in Mike
Mentzers "The
> > wisdom of Mike Mentzer" my workout is
> > Stiff leg dead lifts with dips deads i do 5 to 8 reps and dips 6
to
> > 10 reps.
> > The next workout a week later i do squats 8 to 15 reps with
close
> > grip chins 6 to 10 reps
> > The next week ill do work out one but i swap dips for pre
exhaust
> on
> > shoulders, i do dumbell raises about 10 reps straight into
seated
> > front shoulder barbell press which is 2 to 4 reps.
> > Then next time i do work out one ill do dipps again.
> > I use forced reps and negatives every other work out.I only do
one
> > work set with 3 to 4 warm ups.
> > Ive been on this for 5 months to begin with i made good progress
> > more or less every workout i was on creatine to.Then about
2months
> > ago i stopped making any real improvements ive stopped the
creatine
> > but this didnt make a drmmatic effect as ive not got weaker ive
> just
> > stagnated.
> > And i have lost weight my metabalism has spedd up, which im
happy
> > about as i havent tryed to lose it really but i have lost fat
even,
> > though ive been eating more, junk food etc
> > I woundered if any one else is on a similar work out and how
there
> > getting on? My diets the same more or less apart from more junk
> food.
> > I may just need to add more days but since this once a week
thing
> > hasnt worked much better than, my previous once every 4 days i
am
> > apprehensive. Any thoughts would be welcome?
> > Thanks Jeremy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> > and change your subscription settings.
> >
> > The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump!
http://www.cyberpump.com
> >
> > HIT Digest email addresses:
> >   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
> >   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> >
> > Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> > http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> > http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >     Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.
> >
> >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously
low
> rates.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> and change your subscription settings.
>
> The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com
>
> HIT Digest email addresses:
>   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
>   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
>
> Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> ------------------------------------
>
> Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Health fitness franchise Fitness health Health
fitness product
> Fitness nutrition Health nutrition Womens health fitness magazine
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>









To get this in a Digest form, please go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
and change your subscription settings.

The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com

HIT Digest email addresses:
   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest

Please review the Rules of the Digest at
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
------------------------------------

Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
------------------------------------





YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

  Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Hi James:
>
> In response to your post below, I'm moved to suggest the two items would
> benefit from being separated - and, it seems like you did that anyway.
>
> Before mentioning those, one comment: the "scientific findings" did, in fact,
> appear within a peer referreed scientific publiction, and wasn't something
> from "the Weider research clinic". Maybe that's a joke needing explaining. For
> decades Weider publications made reference to the authority of the Weider
> Research Clinic. Nobody ever saw the place, no photos ever appeared other than
> that of a doorway for the clinic, one with it's name on the door. Maybe it's a
> modern urban legend, but as it goes one bodybuilder visiting Weider's
> headquarters in the Simi Valley opened that door - finding it was really a
> broom closet. There was no clinic in reality.
>
> First point: I'm in full agreement regarding individual differences.
>
> Second point: You write: "However, if you are not training with HIT or other
> high intensity styles, then these scientific findings on recovery may work." I
> think the begs the issue. The research  design presupposed intensity of
> effort. The real measure of intensity is internal, and in rare instances with
> a good mentor or coach.
>
> Over the last 35 years I've seen many systems calling themselves HIT. So much
> so that all I can say is HIT is used for so many seemingly contradictory
> systems of training that it's come to mean next to nothing - that is, it
> doesn't seem to have an indentity, or at least not the one many people assume.
> Many take HIT to mean the one set to failure way of training, then with that
> once or twice weekly training of muscle groups. It didn't, however, mean that
> from the get go - Arthur Jones stressed three times weekly training, and more
> than one exercise per body part. He stressed "intensity of effort" as the key
> to HIT. Everyone else that's come along has also stressed Intensity of effort
> to point of exhaustion.
>
>
> So, the question is this: is HIT an open or closed system? If it's a closed
> system, then no amount of new science can alter it or improve it. Closed
> systems hold that there's nothing new to learn; that they've got the full
> truth.
>
> In my opinion, we're still learning. Science is one path to enhancing our
> training. The other path is written in sweat, dedication, and true grit: it's
> made up of individuals coming together to forums such as this, pooling their
> knowledge and experience.
>
> For my part, once weekly training has always left me undertrained or
> over-recovered.
>
> One of my friends went to his version of Brawn or HIT in the early 90s. For
> several years he started gaining 9-10 pounds a year. As a competitor in
> drug-free, natural competition, that startling change resulted in friends
> suspecting he'd betrayed the drug-free path, going on the  sauce. He hadn't.
> He cut his workouts back to three per week, each working different bodyparts
> once weekly. He told me he'd gone to a hard gainers/brawn like routine. I
> recently read through fifteen years of his training diaries. I can't say he
> went to McRoberts' hard gainer system. While cutting back the number of
> workouts, he likely does upwards of 20 sets once weekly - per bodypart. I
> hesitate to call his training volume. At best, it's a sort of "volume of
> intensity", using a warm up pyramid to ensure joints are loosened up - he's
> middle aged with a host of places once injured that now need warming up - then
> a descending pyramid of drop sets done to failure. He seems to be getting a
> full range of fiber stimulating hypertrophy reps including those that
> endurance training builds.
>
> now for the morning coffee.
Thanks for the detailed and informative response Ken. As for the coffee, the
stronger the roast the better.........

     James

Hi Wayne:

There are squats, then there are squats. super squat type programs, like
Poliquin's GVT, are intended as short term, quick gain solutions. Done long term
they will result in exhaustion.

Ken ONeill
Long Life Fitness
kayoneill@...



----- Original Message -----
From: WAYNE
To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 4/27/2006 1:25:19 PM
Subject: Re: [HIT Digest] SuperSquats


Hi there,

I did squats and different squat routines for years, the size gain was
definitely not from squats.

Wayne


   Hi Wayne it seems to me that your size increase in your legs could
   well have been from the squats. I seem to have to wait a while for a
   size increase to follow a strenghth increase and, ive heard this is a
   common thing. And as the gapp was only 2 to 4 weeks i think this
   could have been the case.
   >  From Jeremy
   >  --- WAYNE <waynegr@...> escribió:
   >
   > >
   > >   I had to stop squatting for knee pain, and bad
   > > knees, they are fine now, I also got bad headaches
   > > from them. I was squatting well over 400lbs for 20
   > > reps. as soon as I switched to other exercises,
   > > namely leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls.
   > > Within 2 to 4 weeks of switching to these exercises
   > > I measured a ¾ in increase in my both legs.
   > >
   > >   The reason I stuck to squats for so long was
   > > because of people saying how great an exercise it is
   > > and that if you keep on adding weight eventually you
   > > will get bigger. The old strength = size argument, I
   > > did not gain size on squats.
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >   However I have hear some do gain size with the
   > > squats, and I have hear some say the book is great,
   > > and some say the book is not very good. I am more
   > > for pure hypertrophy only, with the likes of
   > > isolation movements, I find the prime action of the
   > > muscle, what it evolved to do primary, builds it far
   > > better than "most" compound movements, that is not
   > > at all to say I am against compounds.
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >   Wayne
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >   Lenny,
   > >
   > >   I was always curious about that SuperSquats book.
   > >   Every time someone mentions it, they mention it's
   > >   great.  What's the routine it proposes?
   > >
   > >    --- extremesgs extremesgs
   > > <extremesgs@...>
   > >   escribió:
   > >
   > >   > sacredsystem....   you beat me to it.
   > >   >
   > >   > et. al,
   > >   >
   > >   > I have tried the program in the book, and it did
   > > not
   > >   > work. In fact, I stuck
   > >   > to it better than I'd stuck with any other
   > > program
   > >   > (with age came
   > >   > discipline). i went back to a strict, but
   > >   > calorie-sensible diet, along with
   > >   > a variation of the Super Squats routine, and
   > > started
   > >   > making my gains almost
   > >   > immediately. That's what works for me, and has
   > > since
   > >   > high school.
   > >   >
   > >   > Write a book? hmmm  now there's an idea.
   > > Someone
   > >   > beat me to it- its
   > >   > called "Super Squats: How to gain 30 pounds of
   > >   > muscle in 6 weeks"  and it
   > >   > works for me...     but maybe not for you.

-- - Hi Chris id be intrested to hear how often you train? The guy i
train with had 4 months off training due to injury and he has come
back stronger from Jeremy
>
> One workout i was doing rear deltoids. I was doing the standing
cable
> rear delt crossover which is the best exercise for it also.
>
> I warmed up . I then stuck the weight on the weight i thought i
would
> do around 8 reps with.
>
> I did the set and i stopped at 2 reps and said wow this is light.
>
> I then went up in weight and at the 2nd rep it still felt light. So
i
> stopped, rested and  put the weight on 60 pounds heavier than the
> weight i would normally use.
>
> The thing is it was a month since i last did the exercise.
>
> I then did my one set to failure and did 11 reps and went up 60
> pounds on an exercise where its hard to even go up 5 pounds.
>
> You would think i would get sore, or get some effect from this set.
>
> But day after day, week after week , nothing. No soreness, no
growth.
> Just feel like i did before i did the workout.
>
> 2 and 1/2 months later went bye. I woke up and i felt like my rear
> deltoids were beatin with a baseball bat. I felt like i did as if i
> just finished the set of fly's.
>
> I couldnt even go in to lift that day or the next. For the next
week
> i could feel my rear delts getting bigger and stronger.
>
> Since it can take a week to recover from doing one set to failure
and
> going up just 5 pounds or 1 rep, . It wasnt hard for me to
understand
> really why it might take so long to recover from going up 60 pounds
> and 4 reps.
>
> Someone will say it takes longer for me to recover. The answer to
> that is no. I have one of  the greatest recovery abilities of
almost
> anyone except pros on steroids.  More later , chris
>

Let me add this, too....

Though Darden's diet and training plans did not work well for me, I did pull
out TONS of useful and helpful information from his book!

I am a firm believer in looking at all the stuff you can find, and getting
from each idea/concept/program what you can, and what works for you.

Doing so has brought me to my program, one that I've been doing on and off
for a few years now.

Squat: 1X20 (Super Squats)

Calf Raise: 1X15-20

Overhead Press: 1X8-12 (Darden), or 1X 30sec. pos/30 Sec. neg (Darden/Jones)

Hise Shrug: 1X20 (Super Squats, and another article I'd read, and HIT
Digest)

Row: 1X8-12

Dip: 1 X 30sec/30sec OR Neg Dip, or Neg Pushup: 1X max time (80+ sec. now)
(Darden/Jones, and unknown article)

Curls: 21's 7 full reps, 7 lower-half reps, 7 upper half reps (unknown
article), then 5 sec. hold at      middle (Darden/Jones)

Neck Bridge: 1 or 2 X 20  (Dardens's web site "How big is your neck?") OR
neck harness 1 X 20

Trunk Lift: 1 X max (Darden) OR Side Lifts/Butterfly Kicks/Modified Crunch:
2 X 30 (Police Academy)

CoC gripper: 1 X max time hold OR max reps, OR gripper I can't close: forced
reps  OR Farmer's Walk, OR Wrist Roller.

The book is by Randall Stossen - I believe he owns or runs Ironmind
as well. There are quotes in the book from Mccallum that date back
to the early 60's so it probably is the same program just rehashed.
I think Dr Dave has something with the rotating of routines to avoid
the boredom you mention

--- In Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com, "Ken ONeill" <kayoneill@...> wrote:
>
> Haha. That's an old, old routine, one made famous probably in the
1930s, if not earlier. Every so often it reappears under a new name
by a new author, pretending to be a breakthrough. I believe Ironmind
has a version of it in print, if it's not the same as the one
mentioned in this thread.
>
> I did that routine when I was 19 years old, back in 1963. And
lasted the six weeks. That was the pre-Arthur Jones era, in fact,
almost the pre-power rack/isometronics era. Brutal? Yes. Demanding?
yes. boring? incredibly so. And a real test for separating the
willful from those finding excuses to rationalize failure of nerve.
Does it work? Incredibly so.
>
> As with Jones and Mentzer, it's a moment in Irongame history that
has been superceded by newer, now laboratory and coaching based,
muscle science. For a fairly new trainer, however, it will pack on a
lot of muscle. So will a routine based on squats, deadlifts, bent
rowing, bench presses and behind the neck presses.
>
> Any of these methods demand one thing: throw away or at least
suspend everything you've read and JUST DO IT. And eat right and
sleep right.
>
> Ken ONeill
> Long Life Fitness
> kayoneill@...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: xhawks97
> To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 4/26/2006 11:09:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [HIT Digest] SuperSquats
>
>
> The Supersquats book is an easy read and is built around the 20
rep
> breathing squat and a whole body routine performed 2 to 3 times a
> week. The recomendation is to rotate this I believe he mentions
> every 6 weeks with a 5 x 5 routine.
>
> I have to agree with Miguel - The 20 reppers are brutal and I
> couldn't imagine being faced with having to do them more than once
a
> week. I suppose that's why he has the switch up every 6 weeks
>
> Wayne - how long did you do 20's for and how many times a week did
> you squat ??
>
>
> --- In Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Angel Perez
> <metalhead2_mx@> wrote:
> >
> > When I've tried double-digit squats, it was so
> > stressful I couldn't seem to progress.
> >
> > Wayne, 400x20 is impressive (if a full range was
> > used), too bad it didn't work for what you wanted.
> >
> >  --- WAYNE <waynegr@> escribió:
> >
> > >
> > >   I had to stop squatting for knee pain, and bad
> > > knees, they are fine now, I also got bad headaches
> > > from them. I was squatting well over 400lbs for 20
> > > reps. as soon as I switched to other exercises,
> > > namely leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls.
> > > Within 2 to 4 weeks of switching to these exercises
> > > I measured a ¾ in increase in my both legs.
> > >
> > >   The reason I stuck to squats for so long was
> > > because of people saying how great an exercise it is
> > > and that if you keep on adding weight eventually you
> > > will get bigger. The old strength = size argument, I
> > > did not gain size on squats.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   However I have hear some do gain size with the
> > > squats, and I have hear some say the book is great,
> > > and some say the book is not very good. I am more
> > > for pure hypertrophy only, with the likes of
> > > isolation movements, I find the prime action of the
> > > muscle, what it evolved to do primary, builds it far
> > > better than "most" compound movements, that is not
> > > at all to say I am against compounds.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   Wayne
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   Lenny,
> > >
> > >   I was always curious about that SuperSquats book.
> > >   Every time someone mentions it, they mention it's
> > >   great.  What's the routine it proposes?
> > >
> > >    --- extremesgs extremesgs
> > > <extremesgs@>
> > >   escribió:
> > >
> > >   > sacredsystem....   you beat me to it.
> > >   >
> > >   > et. al,
> > >   >
> > >   > I have tried the program in the book, and it did
> > > not
> > >   > work. In fact, I stuck
> > >   > to it better than I'd stuck with any other
> > > program
> > >   > (with age came
> > >   > discipline). i went back to a strict, but
> > >   > calorie-sensible diet, along with
> > >   > a variation of the Super Squats routine, and
> > > started
> > >   > making my gains almost
> > >   > immediately. That's what works for me, and has
> > > since
> > >   > high school.
> > >   >
> > >   > Write a book? hmmm  now there's an idea.
> > > Someone
> > >   > beat me to it- its
> > >   > called "Super Squats: How to gain 30 pounds of
> > >   > muscle in 6 weeks"  and it
> > >   > works for me...     but maybe not for you.
> > >   >
> > >   > L
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >
> > >
> > >   __________________________________________________
> > >   Correo Yahoo!
> > >   Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y
> > > antispam ¡gratis!
> > >   Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> > >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> > >   and change your subscription settings.
> > >
> > >   The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump!
> > > http://www.cyberpump.com
> > >
> > >   HIT Digest email addresses:
> > >     Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
> > >     Subscribe:
> > > Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >     Unsubscribe:
> > > Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >     List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >   Shortcut URL to this page:
> > >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> > >
> > >   Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> > >   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> > >   ------------------------------------
> > >
> > >   Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> > >   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> > >   ------------------------------------
> > >
> > >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Correo Yahoo!
> > Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
> > Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> and change your subscription settings.
>
> The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com
>
> HIT Digest email addresses:
>   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
>   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
>
> Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> ------------------------------------
>
> Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

One workout i was doing rear deltoids. I was doing the standing cable
rear delt crossover which is the best exercise for it also.

I warmed up . I then stuck the weight on the weight i thought i would
do around 8 reps with.

I did the set and i stopped at 2 reps and said wow this is light.

I then went up in weight and at the 2nd rep it still felt light. So i
stopped, rested and  put the weight on 60 pounds heavier than the
weight i would normally use.

The thing is it was a month since i last did the exercise.

I then did my one set to failure and did 11 reps and went up 60
pounds on an exercise where its hard to even go up 5 pounds.

You would think i would get sore, or get some effect from this set.

But day after day, week after week , nothing. No soreness, no growth.
Just feel like i did before i did the workout.

2 and 1/2 months later went bye. I woke up and i felt like my rear
deltoids were beatin with a baseball bat. I felt like i did as if i
just finished the set of fly's.

I couldnt even go in to lift that day or the next. For the next week
i could feel my rear delts getting bigger and stronger.

Since it can take a week to recover from doing one set to failure and
going up just 5 pounds or 1 rep, . It wasnt hard for me to understand
really why it might take so long to recover from going up 60 pounds
and 4 reps.

Someone will say it takes longer for me to recover. The answer to
that is no. I have one of  the greatest recovery abilities of almost
anyone except pros on steroids.  More later , chris

Hi there,

I did squats and different squat routines for years, the size gain was
definitely not from squats.

Wayne


   Hi Wayne it seems to me that your size increase in your legs could
   well have been from the squats. I seem to have to wait a while for a
   size increase to follow a strenghth increase and, ive heard this is a
   common thing. And as the gapp was only 2 to 4 weeks i think this
   could have been the case.
   >  From Jeremy
   >  --- WAYNE <waynegr@...> escribió:
   >
   > >
   > >   I had to stop squatting for knee pain, and bad
   > > knees, they are fine now, I also got bad headaches
   > > from them. I was squatting well over 400lbs for 20
   > > reps. as soon as I switched to other exercises,
   > > namely leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls.
   > > Within 2 to 4 weeks of switching to these exercises
   > > I measured a ¾ in increase in my both legs.
   > >
   > >   The reason I stuck to squats for so long was
   > > because of people saying how great an exercise it is
   > > and that if you keep on adding weight eventually you
   > > will get bigger. The old strength = size argument, I
   > > did not gain size on squats.
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >   However I have hear some do gain size with the
   > > squats, and I have hear some say the book is great,
   > > and some say the book is not very good. I am more
   > > for pure hypertrophy only, with the likes of
   > > isolation movements, I find the prime action of the
   > > muscle, what it evolved to do primary, builds it far
   > > better than "most" compound movements, that is not
   > > at all to say I am against compounds.
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >   Wayne
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >   Lenny,
   > >
   > >   I was always curious about that SuperSquats book.
   > >   Every time someone mentions it, they mention it's
   > >   great.  What's the routine it proposes?
   > >
   > >    --- extremesgs extremesgs
   > > <extremesgs@...>
   > >   escribió:
   > >
   > >   > sacredsystem....   you beat me to it.
   > >   >
   > >   > et. al,
   > >   >
   > >   > I have tried the program in the book, and it did
   > > not
   > >   > work. In fact, I stuck
   > >   > to it better than I'd stuck with any other
   > > program
   > >   > (with age came
   > >   > discipline). i went back to a strict, but
   > >   > calorie-sensible diet, along with
   > >   > a variation of the Super Squats routine, and
   > > started
   > >   > making my gains almost
   > >   > immediately. That's what works for me, and has
   > > since
   > >   > high school.
   > >   >
   > >   > Write a book? hmmm  now there's an idea.
   > > Someone
   > >   > beat me to it- its
   > >   > called "Super Squats: How to gain 30 pounds of
   > >   > muscle in 6 weeks"  and it
   > >   > works for me...     but maybe not for you.
   > >   >
   > >   > L
   > >   >
   > >   >
   > >   >
   > >   >
   > >   >
   > >
   > >
   > >   __________________________________________________
   > >   Correo Yahoo!
   > >   Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y
   > > antispam ¡gratis!
   > >   Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >   To get this in a Digest form, please go to
   > >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
   > >   and change your subscription settings.
   > >
   > >   The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump!
   > > http://www.cyberpump.com
   > >
   > >   HIT Digest email addresses:
   > >     Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
   > >     Subscribe:
   > > Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   > >     Unsubscribe:
   > > Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   > >     List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
   > >
   > >   Shortcut URL to this page:
   > >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
   > >
   > >   Please review the Rules of the Digest at
   > >   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
   > >   ------------------------------------
   > >
   > >   Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
   > >   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
   > >   ------------------------------------
   > >
   > >   Yahoo! Groups Links
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
   > > removed]
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > >
   >
   >
   > __________________________________________________
   > Correo Yahoo!
   > Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
   > Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
   >








   To get this in a Digest form, please go to
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
   and change your subscription settings.

   The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com

   HIT Digest email addresses:
     Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
     Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
     Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
     List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com

   Shortcut URL to this page:
     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest

   Please review the Rules of the Digest at
   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
   ------------------------------------

   Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
   ------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ken -

Do you have Berardi's book ?? I saw a copy at the local bookstore
and glanced thru it quickly. I did notice that he had 4 or 5
different phases and one of them was 5x5 training


--- In Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com, "Ken ONeill" <kayoneill@...> wrote:
>
> I'd heartily recommend Ellington Darden's advise on nutrition, or
John Berardi's - see John's From Scrawny to Brawny for his advise on
both training and diet (he holds a PhD in sports nutrition along
with some bodybuilding and power lifting titles, all drug-free). The
reason I mention them in preference to Mentzer is that Mike's actual
experience was tainted by performance enhancing agents, hence unless
you're on the sauce you'll not recapitulate his outcomes.
>
> Newer scientific findings indicate recovery times, hence frequency
of training, vary. Legs require 96 hours for recuperation, while
most everything else does just fine with 72 hours. As such, a one
week interval may actually result in diminished returns - although
is far better than overtraining with too great a frequency and
volume. That also says staggered upper body workouts can be
incorporated.
>
> Ken ONeill
> Long Life Fitness
> kayoneill@...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hmmmhmmhm
> To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 4/26/2006 9:31:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [HIT Digest] once a week training
>
>
> Thanks Clint the thing i find hard to take in is im not that
> advanced and the results mentzer speaks of on the onece a week two
> set workout are amazing and mine at best were two rep increases .
And
> ive been told ive got fairly good genetics for building a fair
bitt
> of muscle. I find it hard to believe im at that stage yet of
adding
> more days as im nowhere near  my potential.I have considered
cutting
> it down to one sett a workout on my current once a week routine,
what
> do you think have you ever tryed that? Also id be intressted on
your
> opinion on protein? as i no Mentzer didnt go in for loads to be
used
> he seemed to foremost advocate a well balenced diet. Ive never
gone
> in for having loads as ive not noticed much difference between
being
> on it and not.
> >  Cheers Jeremy
> > once you stop making progress you need to regulate your
frequency
> and duration of w-out. it sounds like your duration is pretty
good.so
> id look to add another 3-5 days until you start making gains
again.
> alot of people think this is extreme but im on a 2-3 week rest
> between workouts and i normally experience great gains. im a very
> firm believer in mike mentzers methods and they havent failed me
yet.
> once you get to a three week rest though if you become that
advanced
> you probably dont need to worry about gains anymore because your
> reaching the upper limit of your genetic potential not to say that
> you couldnt get any bigger but youd be pushing it. peace.
> >
> > hmmmhmmhm <hmmmhmmhm@> wrote:  Hi just joined but due to sheer
> frustration i thought id post this.
> > {i apologise if this is a old topic}
> > I am on the once a week workout plan outlined in Mike
Mentzers "The
> > wisdom of Mike Mentzer" my workout is
> > Stiff leg dead lifts with dips deads i do 5 to 8 reps and dips 6
to
> > 10 reps.
> > The next workout a week later i do squats 8 to 15 reps with
close
> > grip chins 6 to 10 reps
> > The next week ill do work out one but i swap dips for pre
exhaust
> on
> > shoulders, i do dumbell raises about 10 reps straight into
seated
> > front shoulder barbell press which is 2 to 4 reps.
> > Then next time i do work out one ill do dipps again.
> > I use forced reps and negatives every other work out.I only do
one
> > work set with 3 to 4 warm ups.
> > Ive been on this for 5 months to begin with i made good progress
> > more or less every workout i was on creatine to.Then about
2months
> > ago i stopped making any real improvements ive stopped the
creatine
> > but this didnt make a drmmatic effect as ive not got weaker ive
> just
> > stagnated.
> > And i have lost weight my metabalism has spedd up, which im
happy
> > about as i havent tryed to lose it really but i have lost fat
even,
> > though ive been eating more, junk food etc
> > I woundered if any one else is on a similar work out and how
there
> > getting on? My diets the same more or less apart from more junk
> food.
> > I may just need to add more days but since this once a week
thing
> > hasnt worked much better than, my previous once every 4 days i
am
> > apprehensive. Any thoughts would be welcome?
> > Thanks Jeremy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> > and change your subscription settings.
> >
> > The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump!
http://www.cyberpump.com
> >
> > HIT Digest email addresses:
> >   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
> >   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> >
> > Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> > http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> > http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >     Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.
> >
> >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously
low
> rates.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> and change your subscription settings.
>
> The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com
>
> HIT Digest email addresses:
>   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
>   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
>
> Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> ------------------------------------
>
> Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Health fitness franchise Fitness health Health
fitness product
> Fitness nutrition Health nutrition Womens health fitness magazine
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi James:

In response to your post below, I'm moved to suggest the two items would benefit
from being separated - and, it seems like you did that anyway.

Before mentioning those, one comment: the "scientific findings" did, in fact,
appear within a peer referreed scientific publiction, and wasn't something from
"the Weider research clinic". Maybe that's a joke needing explaining. For
decades Weider publications made reference to the authority of the Weider
Research Clinic. Nobody ever saw the place, no photos ever appeared other than
that of a doorway for the clinic, one with it's name on the door. Maybe it's a
modern urban legend, but as it goes one bodybuilder visiting Weider's
headquarters in the Simi Valley opened that door - finding it was really a broom
closet. There was no clinic in reality.

First point: I'm in full agreement regarding individual differences.

Second point: You write: "However, if you are not training with HIT or other
high intensity styles, then these scientific findings on recovery may work." I
think the begs the issue. The research  design presupposed intensity of effort.
The real measure of intensity is internal, and in rare instances with a good
mentor or coach.

Over the last 35 years I've seen many systems calling themselves HIT. So much so
that all I can say is HIT is used for so many seemingly contradictory systems of
training that it's come to mean next to nothing - that is, it doesn't seem to
have an indentity, or at least not the one many people assume. Many take HIT to
mean the one set to failure way of training, then with that once or twice weekly
training of muscle groups. It didn't, however, mean that from the get go -
Arthur Jones stressed three times weekly training, and more than one exercise
per body part. He stressed "intensity of effort" as the key to HIT. Everyone
else that's come along has also stressed Intensity of effort to point of
exhaustion.


So, the question is this: is HIT an open or closed system? If it's a closed
system, then no amount of new science can alter it or improve it. Closed systems
hold that there's nothing new to learn; that they've got the full truth.

In my opinion, we're still learning. Science is one path to enhancing our
training. The other path is written in sweat, dedication, and true grit: it's
made up of individuals coming together to forums such as this, pooling their
knowledge and experience.

For my part, once weekly training has always left me undertrained or
over-recovered.

One of my friends went to his version of Brawn or HIT in the early 90s. For
several years he started gaining 9-10 pounds a year. As a competitor in
drug-free, natural competition, that startling change resulted in friends
suspecting he'd betrayed the drug-free path, going on the  sauce. He hadn't. He
cut his workouts back to three per week, each working different bodyparts once
weekly. He told me he'd gone to a hard gainers/brawn like routine. I recently
read through fifteen years of his training diaries. I can't say he went to
McRoberts' hard gainer system. While cutting back the number of workouts, he
likely does upwards of 20 sets once weekly - per bodypart. I hesitate to call
his training volume. At best, it's a sort of "volume of intensity", using a warm
up pyramid to ensure joints are loosened up - he's middle aged with a host of
places once injured that now need warming up - then a descending pyramid of drop
sets done to failure. He seems to be getting a full range of fiber stimulating
hypertrophy reps including those that endurance training builds.

now for the morning coffee.



Ken ONeill
Long Life Fitness
kayoneill@...



----- Original Message -----
From: sacredsystem
To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 4/27/2006 6:37:56 AM
Subject: Re: [HIT Digest] once a week training





These "scientific" findings may work for some people, but if I trained legs
with only 96 hours of rest and dips or deadlifts with only 72 hours of rest
It would be impossible for me to make any gains. I need AT LEAST a week to
recover from deadlifts or any leg work. The best scientific findings are the
ones my body tells me. However, if you are not training with HIT or other
high intensity styles, then these scientific findings on recovery may work.



James aka Sacredsystem






To get this in a Digest form, please go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
and change your subscription settings.

The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com

HIT Digest email addresses:
   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest

Please review the Rules of the Digest at
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
------------------------------------

Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
------------------------------------




SPONSORED LINKS Health fitness franchise Fitness health Health fitness product
Fitness nutrition Health nutrition Womens health fitness magazine



YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

  Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dave Draper's website now has a HIT section that's rather interesting -
including the tale of how HIT was developed over the years, and a HIT primer:


http://davedraper.com/HIT-HD-primer.html

Ken ONeill
Long Life Fitness
kayoneill@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Clint, et. al.

I did the diet as outlined in Darden's book. It had the same negative
results that it had for Clint. I am open minded, so I will say that it could
very well work for some people- according to reports, it has!  Though, like
most programs, it is not for all. I have done the Super Squats routine
several times-high calorie and all- and have gained muscle while losing fat.
Its just how my body is. Not for everyone, as we saw in the posts. We must
realize, that there are still people out there who make gains from HVT (high
volume training) (though I can't see why they'd want to waste all that
valuable time in the gym....).

Ken,

There may be research that indicates that the people researched have muscles
that do recover in X hours or so. At the risk of sounding sarcastic, I will
paraphrase an article I once read by saying this: Do our bodies know what an
hour, a day, or a week is? I think not. With that in mind, how can we give
that alotted time as "adequate time" for recovery, etc. Our bodies recover
at different rates based on a variety of factors: AGE, metabolism, calorie
intake, REST, activity level, intensity of exercise, and so on. Personally,
I recovered best-and GAINED best- with about 5 or 6 days between killer
workouts. This was with a great diet, not much activity between, and lots of
rest (8-9 hours sleep). I have a baby now, so that sleep part is all gone...
    :-)

Point is, as I said above and previously, we can't put the lable on one
program as the Holy Grail of size and strength. We have a large selection of
programs: Darden/Jones, Heavy Duty, Super Squats, HVT (cringe!), etc.   We
help each other discover all of the systems out there, and what works for
them. I only found that Super Squats works for me through LOTS of
experimentation.

No hard feelings to anyone, I just think we need to stay open minded about
the "Different strokes for different folks" idea.

Great discussions on here everyone!
Keep up the good work!

L




Message: 14
    Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:42:34 -0500
    From: "Ken ONeill" <kayoneill@...>
Subject: Re: once a week training

I'd heartily recommend Ellington Darden's advise on nutrition, or John
Berardi's
- see John's From Scrawny to Brawny for his advise on both training and diet
(he
holds a PhD in sports nutrition along with some bodybuilding and power
lifting
titles, all drug-free). The reason I mention them in preference to Mentzer
is
that Mike's actual experience was tainted by performance enhancing agents,
hence
unless you're on the sauce you'll not recapitulate his outcomes.

Newer scientific findings indicate recovery times, hence frequency of
training,
vary. Legs require 96 hours for recuperation, while most everything else
does
just fine with 72 hours. As such, a one week interval may actually result in
diminished returns - although is far better than overtraining with too great
a
frequency and volume. That also says staggered upper body workouts can be
incorporated.

Ken ONeill
Long Life Fitness
kayoneill@...

> Newer scientific findings indicate recovery times, hence frequency of
> training, vary. Legs require 96 hours for recuperation, while most everything
> else does just fine with 72 hours. As such, a one week interval may actually
> result in diminished returns - although is far better than overtraining with
> too great a frequency and volume. That also says staggered upper body workouts
> can be incorporated.
These "scientific" findings may work for some people, but if I trained legs
with only 96 hours of rest and dips or deadlifts with only 72 hours of rest
It would be impossible for me to make any gains. I need AT LEAST a week to
recover from deadlifts or any leg work. The best scientific findings are the
ones my body tells me. However, if you are not training with HIT or other
high intensity styles, then these scientific findings on recovery may work.



James aka Sacredsystem

Thanks ken ill look into the books. I see what you mean about
Mentzer but he admitts freely about the juice and,  i dont think he
had many clients using them. I have read in interviews him say that
even he was still over training and that if he started again even if
he were on the juice he would train with far less frequency, and
would have made faster progress as a result.
Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com, "Ken ONeill" <kayoneill@...> wrote:
>
> I'd heartily recommend Ellington Darden's advise on nutrition, or
John Berardi's - see John's From Scrawny to Brawny for his advise on
both training and diet (he holds a PhD in sports nutrition along with
some bodybuilding and power lifting titles, all drug-free). The
reason I mention them in preference to Mentzer is that Mike's actual
experience was tainted by performance enhancing agents, hence unless
you're on the sauce you'll not recapitulate his outcomes.
>
> Newer scientific findings indicate recovery times, hence frequency
of training, vary. Legs require 96 hours for recuperation, while most
everything else does just fine with 72 hours. As such, a one week
interval may actually result in diminished returns - although is far
better than overtraining with too great a frequency and volume. That
also says staggered upper body workouts can be incorporated.
>
> Ken ONeill
> Long Life Fitness
> kayoneill@...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hmmmhmmhm
> To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 4/26/2006 9:31:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [HIT Digest] once a week training
>
>
> Thanks Clint the thing i find hard to take in is im not that
> advanced and the results mentzer speaks of on the onece a week two
> set workout are amazing and mine at best were two rep increases .
And
> ive been told ive got fairly good genetics for building a fair bitt
> of muscle. I find it hard to believe im at that stage yet of adding
> more days as im nowhere near  my potential.I have considered
cutting
> it down to one sett a workout on my current once a week routine,
what
> do you think have you ever tryed that? Also id be intressted on
your
> opinion on protein? as i no Mentzer didnt go in for loads to be
used
> he seemed to foremost advocate a well balenced diet. Ive never gone
> in for having loads as ive not noticed much difference between
being
> on it and not.
> >  Cheers Jeremy
> > once you stop making progress you need to regulate your frequency
> and duration of w-out. it sounds like your duration is pretty
good.so
> id look to add another 3-5 days until you start making gains again.
> alot of people think this is extreme but im on a 2-3 week rest
> between workouts and i normally experience great gains. im a very
> firm believer in mike mentzers methods and they havent failed me
yet.
> once you get to a three week rest though if you become that
advanced
> you probably dont need to worry about gains anymore because your
> reaching the upper limit of your genetic potential not to say that
> you couldnt get any bigger but youd be pushing it. peace.
> >
> > hmmmhmmhm <hmmmhmmhm@> wrote:  Hi just joined but due to sheer
> frustration i thought id post this.
> > {i apologise if this is a old topic}
> > I am on the once a week workout plan outlined in Mike
Mentzers "The
> > wisdom of Mike Mentzer" my workout is
> > Stiff leg dead lifts with dips deads i do 5 to 8 reps and dips 6
to
> > 10 reps.
> > The next workout a week later i do squats 8 to 15 reps with close
> > grip chins 6 to 10 reps
> > The next week ill do work out one but i swap dips for pre exhaust
> on
> > shoulders, i do dumbell raises about 10 reps straight into seated
> > front shoulder barbell press which is 2 to 4 reps.
> > Then next time i do work out one ill do dipps again.
> > I use forced reps and negatives every other work out.I only do
one
> > work set with 3 to 4 warm ups.
> > Ive been on this for 5 months to begin with i made good progress
> > more or less every workout i was on creatine to.Then about
2months
> > ago i stopped making any real improvements ive stopped the
creatine
> > but this didnt make a drmmatic effect as ive not got weaker ive
> just
> > stagnated.
> > And i have lost weight my metabalism has spedd up, which im happy
> > about as i havent tryed to lose it really but i have lost fat
even,
> > though ive been eating more, junk food etc
> > I woundered if any one else is on a similar work out and how
there
> > getting on? My diets the same more or less apart from more junk
> food.
> > I may just need to add more days but since this once a week thing
> > hasnt worked much better than, my previous once every 4 days i am
> > apprehensive. Any thoughts would be welcome?
> > Thanks Jeremy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> > and change your subscription settings.
> >
> > The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com
> >
> > HIT Digest email addresses:
> >   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
> >   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> >
> > Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> > http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> > http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >     Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.
> >
> >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously
low
> rates.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> and change your subscription settings.
>
> The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com
>
> HIT Digest email addresses:
>   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
>   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
>
> Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> ------------------------------------
>
> Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Health fitness franchise Fitness health Health
fitness product
> Fitness nutrition Health nutrition Womens health fitness magazine
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

In something I posted earlier today I left something out that's vital for
consideration, if not implementation. Then I took off, remembered it, and it's
haunted me all day.

Doing just a 6-8 or 8-10 rep range is fraught with one error. If you read
Darden's recent article at t-nation.com about watching Casey Viator train, what
you'll find is that Viator trained to failure - that is, he didn't stop at a
fatiguing 10 reps with Jones screaming in his ear - he went for broke. Then went
on to one or two more movements for the same body part without rest.

Drop sets, DC sets, x-rep sets all do the same. And what they're doing is not a
set of 6, 8 or 10. that produces only one kind of hypertrophy. If  you read the
Darden article, you'll conclude that Viator excelled not only in strength but in
endurance. those sets were cumulative for a muscle group. and being so, they
called upon endurance factors - the kind you can also get to with an all out set
of 15 reps. time under tension is one variable, the other is stimulating
mitochondrial biogenesis - the development of rich capillary beds that also
contribute to the size and shape of a muscle. staying in the 6,8, or 10 rep does
just part of the job. to optimize results you need a rich deep pump from getting
to those higher reps or by drop sets.


Ken ONeill
Long Life Fitness
kayoneill@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Haha. That's an old, old routine, one made famous probably in the 1930s, if not
earlier. Every so often it reappears under a new name by a new author,
pretending to be a breakthrough. I believe Ironmind has a version of it in
print, if it's not the same as the one mentioned in this thread.

I did that routine when I was 19 years old, back in 1963. And lasted the six
weeks. That was the pre-Arthur Jones era, in fact, almost the pre-power
rack/isometronics era. Brutal? Yes. Demanding? yes. boring? incredibly so. And a
real test for separating the willful from those finding excuses to rationalize
failure of nerve. Does it work? Incredibly so.

As with Jones and Mentzer, it's a moment in Irongame history that has been
superceded by newer, now laboratory and coaching based, muscle science. For a
fairly new trainer, however, it will pack on a lot of muscle. So will a routine
based on squats, deadlifts, bent rowing, bench presses and behind the neck
presses.

Any of these methods demand one thing: throw away or at least suspend everything
you've read and JUST DO IT. And eat right and sleep right.

Ken ONeill
Long Life Fitness
kayoneill@...



----- Original Message -----
From: xhawks97
To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 4/26/2006 11:09:10 AM
Subject: Re: [HIT Digest] SuperSquats


The Supersquats book is an easy read and is built around the 20 rep
breathing squat and a whole body routine performed 2 to 3 times a
week. The recomendation is to rotate this I believe he mentions
every 6 weeks with a 5 x 5 routine.

I have to agree with Miguel - The 20 reppers are brutal and I
couldn't imagine being faced with having to do them more than once a
week. I suppose that's why he has the switch up every 6 weeks

Wayne - how long did you do 20's for and how many times a week did
you squat ??


--- In Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Angel Perez
<metalhead2_mx@...> wrote:
>
> When I've tried double-digit squats, it was so
> stressful I couldn't seem to progress.
>
> Wayne, 400x20 is impressive (if a full range was
> used), too bad it didn't work for what you wanted.
>
>  --- WAYNE <waynegr@...> escribió:
>
> >
> >   I had to stop squatting for knee pain, and bad
> > knees, they are fine now, I also got bad headaches
> > from them. I was squatting well over 400lbs for 20
> > reps. as soon as I switched to other exercises,
> > namely leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls.
> > Within 2 to 4 weeks of switching to these exercises
> > I measured a ¾ in increase in my both legs.
> >
> >   The reason I stuck to squats for so long was
> > because of people saying how great an exercise it is
> > and that if you keep on adding weight eventually you
> > will get bigger. The old strength = size argument, I
> > did not gain size on squats.
> >
> >
> >
> >   However I have hear some do gain size with the
> > squats, and I have hear some say the book is great,
> > and some say the book is not very good. I am more
> > for pure hypertrophy only, with the likes of
> > isolation movements, I find the prime action of the
> > muscle, what it evolved to do primary, builds it far
> > better than "most" compound movements, that is not
> > at all to say I am against compounds.
> >
> >
> >
> >   Wayne
> >
> >
> >
> >   Lenny,
> >
> >   I was always curious about that SuperSquats book.
> >   Every time someone mentions it, they mention it's
> >   great.  What's the routine it proposes?
> >
> >    --- extremesgs extremesgs
> > <extremesgs@...>
> >   escribió:
> >
> >   > sacredsystem....   you beat me to it.
> >   >
> >   > et. al,
> >   >
> >   > I have tried the program in the book, and it did
> > not
> >   > work. In fact, I stuck
> >   > to it better than I'd stuck with any other
> > program
> >   > (with age came
> >   > discipline). i went back to a strict, but
> >   > calorie-sensible diet, along with
> >   > a variation of the Super Squats routine, and
> > started
> >   > making my gains almost
> >   > immediately. That's what works for me, and has
> > since
> >   > high school.
> >   >
> >   > Write a book? hmmm  now there's an idea.
> > Someone
> >   > beat me to it- its
> >   > called "Super Squats: How to gain 30 pounds of
> >   > muscle in 6 weeks"  and it
> >   > works for me...     but maybe not for you.
> >   >
> >   > L
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >
> >
> >   __________________________________________________
> >   Correo Yahoo!
> >   Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y
> > antispam ¡gratis!
> >   Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> >   and change your subscription settings.
> >
> >   The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump!
> > http://www.cyberpump.com
> >
> >   HIT Digest email addresses:
> >     Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
> >     Subscribe:
> > Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >     Unsubscribe:
> > Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >     List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >   Shortcut URL to this page:
> >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> >
> >   Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> >   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> >   ------------------------------------
> >
> >   Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> >   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> >   ------------------------------------
> >
> >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Correo Yahoo!
> Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
> Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
>








To get this in a Digest form, please go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
and change your subscription settings.

The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com

HIT Digest email addresses:
   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest

Please review the Rules of the Digest at
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
------------------------------------

Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
------------------------------------





YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

  Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Wayne it seems to me that your size increase in your legs could
well have been from the squats. I seem to have to wait a while for a
size increase to follow a strenghth increase and, ive heard this is a
common thing. And as the gapp was only 2 to 4 weeks i think this
could have been the case.
>  From Jeremy
>  --- WAYNE <waynegr@...> escribió:
>
> >
> >   I had to stop squatting for knee pain, and bad
> > knees, they are fine now, I also got bad headaches
> > from them. I was squatting well over 400lbs for 20
> > reps. as soon as I switched to other exercises,
> > namely leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls.
> > Within 2 to 4 weeks of switching to these exercises
> > I measured a ¾ in increase in my both legs.
> >
> >   The reason I stuck to squats for so long was
> > because of people saying how great an exercise it is
> > and that if you keep on adding weight eventually you
> > will get bigger. The old strength = size argument, I
> > did not gain size on squats.
> >
> >
> >
> >   However I have hear some do gain size with the
> > squats, and I have hear some say the book is great,
> > and some say the book is not very good. I am more
> > for pure hypertrophy only, with the likes of
> > isolation movements, I find the prime action of the
> > muscle, what it evolved to do primary, builds it far
> > better than "most" compound movements, that is not
> > at all to say I am against compounds.
> >
> >
> >
> >   Wayne
> >
> >
> >
> >   Lenny,
> >
> >   I was always curious about that SuperSquats book.
> >   Every time someone mentions it, they mention it's
> >   great.  What's the routine it proposes?
> >
> >    --- extremesgs extremesgs
> > <extremesgs@...>
> >   escribió:
> >
> >   > sacredsystem....   you beat me to it.
> >   >
> >   > et. al,
> >   >
> >   > I have tried the program in the book, and it did
> > not
> >   > work. In fact, I stuck
> >   > to it better than I'd stuck with any other
> > program
> >   > (with age came
> >   > discipline). i went back to a strict, but
> >   > calorie-sensible diet, along with
> >   > a variation of the Super Squats routine, and
> > started
> >   > making my gains almost
> >   > immediately. That's what works for me, and has
> > since
> >   > high school.
> >   >
> >   > Write a book? hmmm  now there's an idea.
> > Someone
> >   > beat me to it- its
> >   > called "Super Squats: How to gain 30 pounds of
> >   > muscle in 6 weeks"  and it
> >   > works for me...     but maybe not for you.
> >   >
> >   > L
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >
> >
> >   __________________________________________________
> >   Correo Yahoo!
> >   Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y
> > antispam ¡gratis!
> >   Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> >   and change your subscription settings.
> >
> >   The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump!
> > http://www.cyberpump.com
> >
> >   HIT Digest email addresses:
> >     Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
> >     Subscribe:
> > Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >     Unsubscribe:
> > Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >     List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >   Shortcut URL to this page:
> >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> >
> >   Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> >   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> >   ------------------------------------
> >
> >   Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> >   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> >   ------------------------------------
> >
> >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Correo Yahoo!
> Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
> Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
>

I use full range on all lifts.
   I also know some more people that have squatted with out much in the way of
size gains.

   Wayne


   When I've tried double-digit squats, it was so
   stressful I couldn't seem to progress.

   Wayne, 400x20 is impressive (if a full range was
   used), too bad it didn't work for what you wanted.

    --- WAYNE <waynegr@...> escribió:

   >
   >   I had to stop squatting for knee pain, and bad
   > knees, they are fine now, I also got bad headaches
   > from them. I was squatting well over 400lbs for 20
   > reps. as soon as I switched to other exercises,
   > namely leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls.
   > Within 2 to 4 weeks of switching to these exercises
   > I measured a ¾ in increase in my both legs.
   >
   >   The reason I stuck to squats for so long was
   > because of people saying how great an exercise it is
   > and that if you keep on adding weight eventually you
   > will get bigger. The old strength = size argument, I
   > did not gain size on squats.
   >
   >
   >
   >   However I have hear some do gain size with the
   > squats, and I have hear some say the book is great,
   > and some say the book is not very good. I am more
   > for pure hypertrophy only, with the likes of
   > isolation movements, I find the prime action of the
   > muscle, what it evolved to do primary, builds it far
   > better than "most" compound movements, that is not
   > at all to say I am against compounds.
   >
   >
   >
   >   Wayne
   >
   >
   >
   >   Lenny,
   >
   >   I was always curious about that SuperSquats book.
   >   Every time someone mentions it, they mention it's
   >   great.  What's the routine it proposes?
   >
   >    --- extremesgs extremesgs
   > <extremesgs@...>
   >   escribió:
   >
   >   > sacredsystem....   you beat me to it.
   >   >
   >   > et. al,
   >   >
   >   > I have tried the program in the book, and it did
   > not
   >   > work. In fact, I stuck
   >   > to it better than I'd stuck with any other
   > program
   >   > (with age came
   >   > discipline). i went back to a strict, but
   >   > calorie-sensible diet, along with
   >   > a variation of the Super Squats routine, and
   > started
   >   > making my gains almost
   >   > immediately. That's what works for me, and has
   > since
   >   > high school.
   >   >
   >   > Write a book? hmmm  now there's an idea.
   > Someone
   >   > beat me to it- its
   >   > called "Super Squats: How to gain 30 pounds of
   >   > muscle in 6 weeks"  and it
   >   > works for me...     but maybe not for you.
   >   >
   >   > L
   >   >
   >   >
   >   >
   >   >
   >   >
   >
   >
   >   __________________________________________________
   >   Correo Yahoo!
   >   Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y
   > antispam ¡gratis!
   >   Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >   To get this in a Digest form, please go to
   >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
   >   and change your subscription settings.
   >
   >   The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump!
   > http://www.cyberpump.com
   >
   >   HIT Digest email addresses:
   >     Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
   >     Subscribe:
   > Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   >     Unsubscribe:
   > Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   >     List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
   >
   >   Shortcut URL to this page:
   >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
   >
   >   Please review the Rules of the Digest at
   >   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
   >   ------------------------------------
   >
   >   Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
   >   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
   >   ------------------------------------
   >
   >   Yahoo! Groups Links
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been
   > removed]
   >
   >
   >
   >


   __________________________________________________
   Correo Yahoo!
   Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
   Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/




   To get this in a Digest form, please go to
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
   and change your subscription settings.

   The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com

   HIT Digest email addresses:
     Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
     Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
     Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
     List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com

   Shortcut URL to this page:
     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest

   Please review the Rules of the Digest at
   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
   ------------------------------------

   Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
   ------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Supersquats book is an easy read and is built around the 20 rep
breathing squat and a whole body routine performed 2 to 3 times a
week. The recomendation is to rotate this I believe he mentions
every 6 weeks with a 5 x 5 routine.

I have to agree with Miguel - The 20 reppers are brutal and I
couldn't imagine being faced with having to do them more than once a
week. I suppose that's why he has the switch up every 6 weeks

Wayne - how long did you do 20's for and how many times a week did
you squat ??


--- In Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Angel Perez
<metalhead2_mx@...> wrote:
>
> When I've tried double-digit squats, it was so
> stressful I couldn't seem to progress.
>
> Wayne, 400x20 is impressive (if a full range was
> used), too bad it didn't work for what you wanted.
>
>  --- WAYNE <waynegr@...> escribió:
>
> >
> >   I had to stop squatting for knee pain, and bad
> > knees, they are fine now, I also got bad headaches
> > from them. I was squatting well over 400lbs for 20
> > reps. as soon as I switched to other exercises,
> > namely leg presses, leg extensions, leg curls.
> > Within 2 to 4 weeks of switching to these exercises
> > I measured a ¾ in increase in my both legs.
> >
> >   The reason I stuck to squats for so long was
> > because of people saying how great an exercise it is
> > and that if you keep on adding weight eventually you
> > will get bigger. The old strength = size argument, I
> > did not gain size on squats.
> >
> >
> >
> >   However I have hear some do gain size with the
> > squats, and I have hear some say the book is great,
> > and some say the book is not very good. I am more
> > for pure hypertrophy only, with the likes of
> > isolation movements, I find the prime action of the
> > muscle, what it evolved to do primary, builds it far
> > better than "most" compound movements, that is not
> > at all to say I am against compounds.
> >
> >
> >
> >   Wayne
> >
> >
> >
> >   Lenny,
> >
> >   I was always curious about that SuperSquats book.
> >   Every time someone mentions it, they mention it's
> >   great.  What's the routine it proposes?
> >
> >    --- extremesgs extremesgs
> > <extremesgs@...>
> >   escribió:
> >
> >   > sacredsystem....   you beat me to it.
> >   >
> >   > et. al,
> >   >
> >   > I have tried the program in the book, and it did
> > not
> >   > work. In fact, I stuck
> >   > to it better than I'd stuck with any other
> > program
> >   > (with age came
> >   > discipline). i went back to a strict, but
> >   > calorie-sensible diet, along with
> >   > a variation of the Super Squats routine, and
> > started
> >   > making my gains almost
> >   > immediately. That's what works for me, and has
> > since
> >   > high school.
> >   >
> >   > Write a book? hmmm  now there's an idea.
> > Someone
> >   > beat me to it- its
> >   > called "Super Squats: How to gain 30 pounds of
> >   > muscle in 6 weeks"  and it
> >   > works for me...     but maybe not for you.
> >   >
> >   > L
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >
> >
> >   __________________________________________________
> >   Correo Yahoo!
> >   Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y
> > antispam ¡gratis!
> >   Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> >   and change your subscription settings.
> >
> >   The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump!
> > http://www.cyberpump.com
> >
> >   HIT Digest email addresses:
> >     Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
> >     Subscribe:
> > Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >     Unsubscribe:
> > Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >     List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >   Shortcut URL to this page:
> >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> >
> >   Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> >   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> >   ------------------------------------
> >
> >   Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> >   http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> >   ------------------------------------
> >
> >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Correo Yahoo!
> Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
> Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
>

I'd heartily recommend Ellington Darden's advise on nutrition, or John Berardi's
- see John's From Scrawny to Brawny for his advise on both training and diet (he
holds a PhD in sports nutrition along with some bodybuilding and power lifting
titles, all drug-free). The reason I mention them in preference to Mentzer is
that Mike's actual experience was tainted by performance enhancing agents, hence
unless you're on the sauce you'll not recapitulate his outcomes.

Newer scientific findings indicate recovery times, hence frequency of training,
vary. Legs require 96 hours for recuperation, while most everything else does
just fine with 72 hours. As such, a one week interval may actually result in
diminished returns - although is far better than overtraining with too great a
frequency and volume. That also says staggered upper body workouts can be
incorporated.

Ken ONeill
Long Life Fitness
kayoneill@...



----- Original Message -----
From: hmmmhmmhm
To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 4/26/2006 9:31:21 AM
Subject: Re: [HIT Digest] once a week training


Thanks Clint the thing i find hard to take in is im not that
advanced and the results mentzer speaks of on the onece a week two
set workout are amazing and mine at best were two rep increases . And
ive been told ive got fairly good genetics for building a fair bitt
of muscle. I find it hard to believe im at that stage yet of adding
more days as im nowhere near  my potential.I have considered cutting
it down to one sett a workout on my current once a week routine, what
do you think have you ever tryed that? Also id be intressted on your
opinion on protein? as i no Mentzer didnt go in for loads to be used
he seemed to foremost advocate a well balenced diet. Ive never gone
in for having loads as ive not noticed much difference between being
on it and not.
>  Cheers Jeremy
> once you stop making progress you need to regulate your frequency
and duration of w-out. it sounds like your duration is pretty good.so
id look to add another 3-5 days until you start making gains again.
alot of people think this is extreme but im on a 2-3 week rest
between workouts and i normally experience great gains. im a very
firm believer in mike mentzers methods and they havent failed me yet.
once you get to a three week rest though if you become that advanced
you probably dont need to worry about gains anymore because your
reaching the upper limit of your genetic potential not to say that
you couldnt get any bigger but youd be pushing it. peace.
>
> hmmmhmmhm <hmmmhmmhm@...> wrote:  Hi just joined but due to sheer
frustration i thought id post this.
> {i apologise if this is a old topic}
> I am on the once a week workout plan outlined in Mike Mentzers "The
> wisdom of Mike Mentzer" my workout is
> Stiff leg dead lifts with dips deads i do 5 to 8 reps and dips 6 to
> 10 reps.
> The next workout a week later i do squats 8 to 15 reps with close
> grip chins 6 to 10 reps
> The next week ill do work out one but i swap dips for pre exhaust
on
> shoulders, i do dumbell raises about 10 reps straight into seated
> front shoulder barbell press which is 2 to 4 reps.
> Then next time i do work out one ill do dipps again.
> I use forced reps and negatives every other work out.I only do one
> work set with 3 to 4 warm ups.
> Ive been on this for 5 months to begin with i made good progress
> more or less every workout i was on creatine to.Then about 2months
> ago i stopped making any real improvements ive stopped the creatine
> but this didnt make a drmmatic effect as ive not got weaker ive
just
> stagnated.
> And i have lost weight my metabalism has spedd up, which im happy
> about as i havent tryed to lose it really but i have lost fat even,
> though ive been eating more, junk food etc
> I woundered if any one else is on a similar work out and how there
> getting on? My diets the same more or less apart from more junk
food.
> I may just need to add more days but since this once a week thing
> hasnt worked much better than, my previous once every 4 days i am
> apprehensive. Any thoughts would be welcome?
> Thanks Jeremy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To get this in a Digest form, please go to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
> and change your subscription settings.
>
> The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com
>
> HIT Digest email addresses:
>   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
>   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
>
> Please review the Rules of the Digest at
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
> ------------------------------------
>
> Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
> http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>     Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.
>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low
rates.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>









To get this in a Digest form, please go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
and change your subscription settings.

The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com

HIT Digest email addresses:
   Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
   Subscribe:    Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
   Unsubscribe:  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   List owner:   Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest

Please review the Rules of the Digest at
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
------------------------------------

Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
------------------------------------




SPONSORED LINKS Health fitness franchise Fitness health Health fitness product
Fitness nutrition Health nutrition Womens health fitness magazine



YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

  Visit your group "Hitdigest" on the web.

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]