It's ironic that when Congress reclassified steroids as controlled substances in
1989 that the American Medical Association was against doing that!

The rationale for controlling drugs is not one of the "government telling you
what to do"; instead, it's agencies of the government controlling substances
that can bring harm to those using them. Steroids are NOT harmless. Left
ventricle problems leading to death is a well known effect of using them. Many
of the harmful effects journalists delight in reporting simply aren't true.
What's more, any reasonable male should have a baseline testosterone test
performed by age 35 in order to have a standard to measure against as the years
pass and andropause sets in. In these United States menopause receives
tremendous attention while andropause is tacitly ignored. Male health depends on
healthy levels of test and hormone replacement therapy using either synthetic
steroids or bio-identical naturals is an appropriate protocol - for health.

If we're going to have competition, it seems only rational to set a standard
regarding drugs. There are a number of drug-free organizations which do
mandatory testing of all competitors to ensure drug-free. That's the way
bodybuilding was up until the early sixties; since then it's been a massive
culture of lies and deceipt. Anyone - Mike Mentzer included - who touts a system
of training and/or nutritional while lying about their steroid use is an
intentional liar and deceiver, out to take your money and good faith. The
refreshing element to Ellington Darden's books is they are full of drug-free
natural HIT athletes with impressive physiques that got that way with what
Arthur Jones called "honest work". Until athletes learn to train hard enough
with intensity, all talk of drugs is for weaklings unwilling or unable or both
to do hard work. Iron Man Magazine carries many articles every month promoting
drug-free natural training for those strong enough of character to Work Out!!!

I'm afraid that advocating drugs even without using them is what we see in
families of alcholics and drug-abusers: enablers. I've seen the Irongame go
downhill since 1962 and am just plain sick and tired of it and the freaks it
produces. Go back and take a look at some amazing physiques from the forties and
fifties to see what drug-free means. Or read Ell Darden's books. He wrote the
New HIT through being inspired by Art Jones' disgust with the perverted state of
bodybuilding to show the natural way.


----- Original Message -----
From: clint michels
To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 3/21/2007 10:21:20 PM
Subject: Re: [HIT Digest] Re: Darden Book


not to disagree with you view, but you might want to look at it like this. why
would the fact that someone uses drugs effect how you view the person?? if a
person takes drugs the choice is theirs. if a person( well refer to as person-x
in this post) is willing to lose 20 years off their life in the persuit of a
ultimate goal i dont think a critic should complain. if a 3rd party thinks its
cheating that person-x is willing to take any path possible to achieve a dream,
would person-x lead a more fullfilled life in the event that they dont achieve
that goal w-out? it could also be viewed unfair that a person is born with
superior genetics. a person needs to make do with what they were born with, and
supplementing drugs might just give them the advantage they need. if in the
pursuit of that goal they defeat a person that wasnt willing to take drugs...it
could be considered the defeated person wasnt willing to do everything possible
to obtain their dream. i dont take
any illegal substances but i do think the government shouldnt be able to tell
someone what they can and cant take. they can certainly " educate the public"
but the fact that cigarettes and alcohol are legal shows how ignorant the
government is. they only legalize things they can make money off of. ( steroids
cant even touch how deadly alcohol and tobacco are)

and the best part is that we get to see better entertainment when we watch
sporting event and such spectacles.

-peace.

Hank Kearns <hkearns4@...> wrote:
I agree with the xhawks97. Yes, there are people who took steroids,
growth hormones, EPO, and did not suffer health issues, but the use
of illegal performance enhancing drugs is, in my opinion, ruining
sport and even fitness. I was born near York, PA where steroids were
first used in USA. It devastated the York Barbell lifting team.
Personally I do not even bother watching the Olympics. Maybe the ping-
pong champ is not using something, but even there if I would had to
bet, would bet they are taking something that is illegal.

People who use illegal drugs to enhance their physical stature are
frauds. Look at pictures of those individuals before using and after.
There is a huge difference. It was not their training approach, or
hard work or discipline it was artificial.

If you could keep the drugs to the “professionals” you might have an
argument, but it does not stop there. The temptation to look like
Arnold is huge for those young men and even women who want to be the
best.

Hank Kearns

On Mar 8, 2007, at 4:19 PM, xhawks97 wrote:

> I would have to say that drugs negate a lot of athletes
> performance/records -
>
> don't you think Bonds use of steriods kinds of negates any claim he
> will have to the home run record.
>
> I don't think McGuire will make the HOF now that he is being
> associated with drug use
>
> also, just think if Mantle wasn't such a drinker how many more HR's
> he would have hit
>
> I don't see how it is murky - you either play and compete clean or
> you don't
>
> --- In Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com, "hmmmhmmhm" wrote:
> >
> > If they used drugs then so what. Lots of people do, it is
> certainly
> > not a unusual thing. Just Google famous drug users does the use of
> > drugs negate any of there work? When you start attributing things
> to
> > drugs you run into very murky waters.
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> >
> >
> > > i enjoyed your post. the end result of mentzer unfortunately was
> an
> > early death.
> > > but im sure he new the risks and compaired that to an early
> death.
> > i didnt know he used coke and pot so much.
> > >
> > > i still enjoy his readings.
> > >
> > > i think one of the biggest problems with steroids( as with most
> > drugs) its a gateway drug. its normally never used by itself.
> > >
> > > that being said i dont think roids used intelligably would
> result
> > in negative effect so much and in most cases increase life(but
> sadly
> > too much is the normal case). since they're illegal they dont have
> > enough science to help prosper in the cause.
> > >
> > > as far as roid rage i think it only personafies a ones
> > personality. so if your already an a-hole you will act like a
> bigger
> > one. if your a more on the sane side you wont act up as much(
> > assuming your not overdoing them, but once again that not the
> norm)
> > >
> > > so in the end i guess its apersonal decision.
> > >
> > > Ken ONeill wrote:
> > > Very interesting commentary and personal observations,
> Dr.
> > Dave.
> > >
> > > In our popular culture these days we tend to look at steroids as
> > performance drugs while at the same time viewing cocaine and
> marijuana
> > as recreational drugs: that is, we understand the latter drugs to
> be
> > mind-altering substances while assuming steroids simply make
> muscles
> > grow, perhaps having adverse side-effects, and that's it. Nothing
> > could be further from the truth. Steroids, especially in large
> > quantites, are themselves very potent mind-altering drugs. Taken
> for
> > long periods of time, they alter the user's personality. Here in
> Texas
> > there have been one or two post-steroid depression related
> suicides of
> > high school football players - and that's kids taking smaller
> > quantities for short periods of time.
> > >
> > > I trust most of you have heard of 'roid rage, the kind of hair
> > trigger extreme anger rages steroid users sometimes snap into.
> That's
> > just the tip of the iceberg. Like Dr Dave, I, too, have been around
> > serious steroid users for most of my life. Those drugs came on the
> > scene in the very early 1960s, there use becoming rampid by 1965.
> And
> > that was only dianobol, but taken in large daily doses. Users not
> only
> > become big and strong but develop a personal sense of
> inviolabilty -
> > nothing can happen to them - while the universe now revolves around
> > them. paranoia sets in too, resulting in their social world
> becoming
> > increasingly shrunken and narrowed down. Cant forget what amounts
> to
> > meglomania - they're the center of the universe, the smartest,
> > strongest, wisest, etc., while naturally invalidating and
> depricating
> > everyone else.
> > >
> > > As mentioned, with withdrawl, depression usually sets in. For one
> > thing, large scale use can result in permanent testicular atrophy
> and
> > profound andropause - that is, their testicles shrink to the size
> of
> > dried up raisins, and they produce no testosterone. For most,
> however,
> > that's a relatively temporary thing, taking upwards of six months
> for
> > the system to restart - and with great loss of strength and size.
> > Hence all that made them the center of the universe now wastes
> away,
> > leaving a shadow of one's former inflated self. Can you imagine the
> > coping, the depression, and the need for healthily adjusted ego
> > strength to cope with that - something woefully lacking in most
> > bodybuilders.
> > >
> > > Left ventricle diseases seem to occur as a result as well,
> leading
> > to early fatal heart attacks.
> > >
> > > So, now what's the synergy of large amounts of steroids coupled
> with
> > cocaine and pot? Synergy implies a condition in which adding them
> all
> > up the result is greater than the sum - that is, one plus one
> likely
> > equals five in effect. The Mentzers may have brought their
> emotional
> > discord to bodybuilding - given two brothers with borderline
> > personalities it seems like a family condition - but the use of all
> > those drugs cannot but have made it much, much worse. How sad. May
> > they rest in peace.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: David Lewandowski
> > > To: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: 2/22/2007 1:26:35 PM
> > > Subject: [HIT Digest] Re: Darden Book
> > >
> > > Ken is so right about heavy drug use in not only the Mentzers
> but in
> > society as a whole. My friend from high school was Ray Mentzer's
> and
> > Benny Poda's training partner. I worked for Ray for a month at his
> gym
> > in Redondo Beach almost 20 years ago though I trained there for
> about
> > 2 years. My friend was a brilliant guy until he started to do
> steroids
> > and along with Mentzer would snort cocaine before working out.
> > Afterwards, they would smoke pot to calm down from the coke. He
> would
> > try to inject Ray Mentzer with an 18 gauge needle and it would snap
> > because of all the scar tissue. The scar tissue had to be
> surgically
> > removed. He would do 5cc at a time twice a week and 100 Anavar a
> day
> > plus other many other orals! Benny took so many that the whites of
> his
> > eyes were very yellow. Ray did a 950lb parallel squat wearing only
> a
> > belt, gym shorts, and a t-shirt. He weighed 305lbs at the time.
> > >
> > > Ray was a quite an intelligent man as was Mike though I would
> have
> > to say after being around Ray and watching him have several mental
> > breakdowns, both he and Mike were socially retarded in that they
> could
> > not converse about normal things or with those of average
> intelligence
> > especially halfwits. With that being said both were very loyal and
> > quite kind to those that were in their inner circle. Neither gave
> > their friendship easily.
> > >
> > > My high school friend totally lost his mind. I lived with him
> for 4
> > months during which time he slept at the most 1.5hrs a night. He
> went
> > from having a well paying job at 16y.o. with his own apartment and
> > eventually working for the same company as an aerospace engineer to
> > being a box boy for a Rite Aid somewhere in Northern California.
> > Unbeknownst to me he was also extremely abusive to his girlfriend.
> He
> > was sent to Florida quite often to work on the Space Shuttle and
> had a
> > girlfriend down there. He secretly married her and then lived most
> of
> > the time in California with his girlfriend. He became super
> secretive
> > and paranoid.
> > >
> > > All the above rambling does have a point. The point being
> regardless
> > of their personal life all had exceptional ideas about training. I
> > have benefited tremendously from Heavy Duty(Mike's form of HIT).
> It's
> > easy to cast stones at those whose ideas we disagree with. We can
> find
> > fault even with that which doesn't matter much like their
> > personalities and personal life and throw away their very useful
> ideas
> > along with the thought of them. On the other hand, those that we
> share
> > beliefs and values with just seem so nice and charming to the point
> > that we give credence to any intellectual drivel that may come from
> > their mouths. For example, many could not integrate the thought
> that
> > Marion Jones could be such a nice person and yet take all kinds of
> > drugs and lie about it. We learn very little from those we agree
> with.
> > Learning to love your enemy is actually learning to love yourself
> > unconditionally.
> > >
> > > Dr. Dave
> > > Man-Up-Now.com
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Somebody should tell us right at the start of out lives, that we
> > are dying. Then we might live life to the limit, every minute of
> every
> > day. Do it! I say. Whatever it is you want to do, do it now! There
> are
> > only so many tommorrows. -----MICHEAL LANDON
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
> > > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To get this in a Digest form, please go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest
and change your subscription settings.

The HIT Digest is a feature of Cyberpump! http://www.cyberpump.com

HIT Digest email addresses:
Post message: Hitdigest@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: Hitdigest-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: Hitdigest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: Hitdigest-owner@yahoogroups.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hitdigest

Please review the Rules of the Digest at
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitdigest/rules.html
------------------------------------

Got a question, check out the HIT FAQ first.
http://www.cyberpump.com/hitfaq/
------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

"Somebody should tell us right at the start of out lives, that we are dying.
Then we might live life to the limit, every minute of every day. Do it! I say.
Whatever it is you want to do, do it now! There are only so many tommorrows.
-----MICHEAL LANDON

---------------------------------
It's here! Your new message!
Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]