Audiology - Hard of Hearing Audiologists

Messages In This Digest (5 Messages)

1a.

Re: 4th year externships From: satchers

1b.

Re: 4th year externships From: J. Young

1c.

Re: 4th year externships From: Julia Fitzer

1d.

Re: 4th year externships From: J. Young

1e.

Re: 4th year externships From: Suzanne Yoder

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Messages

1a.

Re: 4th year externships

Posted by: "satchers" Samuel.Atcherson@...   satchers

Wed Dec 5, 2007 5:17 am (PST)

Hi Julie,

Although I didn't have to look for a 4th year externship, I did have
to look for a job prior to completion of my masters degree, called a
"clinical fellowship" (laughing).

My experience during my job search and interviews back in 2000 is
similar to what Mark was saying. Potential employers were much more
interested in how well I could get the job done. As soon as they found
out I had a hearing loss (whether I told him before the interview or
during the interview), some would immediately ask how well I could
communicate with staff and patients on the phone, how I would do
listening checks, etc. I was prepared for all those questions as I had
an answer for each one. Although this wasn't said by any of my
interviewers directly, I got this gut feeling that they couldn't help
but think how much money they might be losing if there was a
disruption of communication caused by my hearing loss. No matter how
hard people might try, I just don't think that everyone views hearing
loss in a positive light, even among audiologists! We have to remember
that during an interview for a job (or a 4th year externship), not
only are we being interviewed, but the interviewer is also being
interviewed. We have to have our interviewing skills down pat. If
there is too much focus on our hearing loss or on accommodations, we
have to be smart about how to steer the interview back in a more
productive, meaningful session. Or else, it impinges on possible
discrimination, and that's no fun for anyone.

At the same time, I also agree with the statements Suzanne makes. The
4th year externship would be better viewed as a place where "you put
it all together" and not as a place where you are still "finding
yourself". I also agree that the 4th year is not to be viewed as a
job, but another year of solid learning. Any one, hearing loss or not,
would do well to find a 4th year externship where learning will
continue to happen in the form of preparing for the real world. The
student seeking a 4th year externship should be selective, and not
just take anything that comes their way. Hearing loss or not, the
student should want to seek a place where they can continue to be
mentored, continue to learn, and continue to mature. You should feel
ready to tackle the world when you get that degree. (This very idea is
profoundly different than the Masters degree and clinical fellowship
approach.)

Self-disclosure is a very personal choice. In working with the
Association of Medical Professionals with Hearing Losses (AMPHL) for
several years now, it seems to me across disciplines (Medicine,
veterinary medicine, nursing, psychology, etc) that the more severe
the hearing loss, or the more impact hearing loss has on one's life,
the more it helps to disclose the hearing loss up front. This is not
to say that this is the only choice. But it seems to me that if we are
concerned enough about our hearing loss (or hearing abilities), then
the perception of others about us might be the same. This is where
attitude has to kick in. This is where self-confidence and competence
has to kick in. This is where we have to sell ourselves, despite our
hearing loss. Sometimes, we have to demonstrate how we successfully
turn our "disability" into "ability".

Best wishes,

Sam

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Messages in this topic (11)

1b.

Re: 4th year externships

Posted by: "J. Young" audiologydoctor@...   jill_aud

Wed Dec 5, 2007 6:40 am (PST)

What an interesting discussion! Makes me "re-live" my life as a 4th year
student! How fun!

I was fortunate to obtain my 4th year placement at Walter Reed Army Medical
Center in Wash.DC. It was a fabulous experience, I wouldn't trade it for
anything. It really pulled everything together for me, as I did rotations
in hearing aids, auditory diagnostics, vestibular diagnostics, some physical
therapy, aural rehabilitation, cochlear implants, and research! I had
*ten*supervisors! Wow! Talk about tough! It was tough.

I used an FM System all the way through my 4th year. I used it with all my
patients...I put the microphone directly on them and used my t-coil. They
never knew I had a hearing loss. They just assumed it was normal for
everyone to wear a microphone during a hearing test.

I also used it in our weekly staffing, monthly departmental meetings, etc.

The only place I had a tough time was in the operating room of the cochlear
implant rounds. I wasn't allowed to take the FM with me. Hearing aids were
okay, but FM was not! I did electrode testing on the implant prior to the
surgeon closing the wound. My supervisor was always with me. I learned how
to do it, but with the masks over the faces of everyone in that room...it
was just a situation that my supervisor and I decided I would probably never
do again in my life.

I didn't disclose my hearing loss when I interviewed for the position. My
main supervisor (the BIG boss) never asked me about the severity of my
hearing loss. She knew it was severe, but at the end of my 4th year she
purposely told me that she didn't want to know my audiogram because she
didn't want to place any bias' against me. She wanted to give me as much
equality with normal hearing students as she could. At the time, I thought
that was really nice of her. :)

There was one set back that I had that I'd like to share. About nine-months
into my year-long externship, I had a review with my main supervisor. She
gave me A+ remarks across the board. One week later, she called me into her
office and dropped my grade to a B-.

I never understood how it happened, but apparently some of the other staff
had concerns that had never been brought to my attention. One story I got
was that a hearing aid patient asked me a question and I missed what he
said. So, I asked the patient to repeat the question.

One supervisor took it as a weakness that I had to ask a patient to repeat a
question. This person never told me about it at the time it happened. Make
sure the lines of communication are open with EVERYONE you work with. I
think some supervisors are scared to discuss our hearing loss with us. So,
it is really important that you have a positive attitude and that you try to
laugh about your hearing loss. It really does put everyone at ease and
hopefully, supervisors will feel like they can work with you if you act
comfortable with your abilities.
Good discussion. It's nice to see some activity here again!

Jill
On Dec 5, 2007 8:17 AM, satchers <Samuel.Atcherson@...> wrote:

> Hi Julie,
>
> Although I didn't have to look for a 4th year externship, I did have
> to look for a job prior to completion of my masters degree, called a
> "clinical fellowship" (laughing).
>
> My experience during my job search and interviews back in 2000 is
> similar to what Mark was saying. Potential employers were much more
> interested in how well I could get the job done. As soon as they found
> out I had a hearing loss (whether I told him before the interview or
> during the interview), some would immediately ask how well I could
> communicate with staff and patients on the phone, how I would do
> listening checks, etc. I was prepared for all those questions as I had
> an answer for each one. Although this wasn't said by any of my
> interviewers directly, I got this gut feeling that they couldn't help
> but think how much money they might be losing if there was a
> disruption of communication caused by my hearing loss. No matter how
> hard people might try, I just don't think that everyone views hearing
> loss in a positive light, even among audiologists! We have to remember
> that during an interview for a job (or a 4th year externship), not
> only are we being interviewed, but the interviewer is also being
> interviewed. We have to have our interviewing skills down pat. If
> there is too much focus on our hearing loss or on accommodations, we
> have to be smart about how to steer the interview back in a more
> productive, meaningful session. Or else, it impinges on possible
> discrimination, and that's no fun for anyone.
>
> At the same time, I also agree with the statements Suzanne makes. The
> 4th year externship would be better viewed as a place where "you put
> it all together" and not as a place where you are still "finding
> yourself". I also agree that the 4th year is not to be viewed as a
> job, but another year of solid learning. Any one, hearing loss or not,
> would do well to find a 4th year externship where learning will
> continue to happen in the form of preparing for the real world. The
> student seeking a 4th year externship should be selective, and not
> just take anything that comes their way. Hearing loss or not, the
> student should want to seek a place where they can continue to be
> mentored, continue to learn, and continue to mature. You should feel
> ready to tackle the world when you get that degree. (This very idea is
> profoundly different than the Masters degree and clinical fellowship
> approach.)
>
> Self-disclosure is a very personal choice. In working with the
> Association of Medical Professionals with Hearing Losses (AMPHL) for
> several years now, it seems to me across disciplines (Medicine,
> veterinary medicine, nursing, psychology, etc) that the more severe
> the hearing loss, or the more impact hearing loss has on one's life,
> the more it helps to disclose the hearing loss up front. This is not
> to say that this is the only choice. But it seems to me that if we are
> concerned enough about our hearing loss (or hearing abilities), then
> the perception of others about us might be the same. This is where
> attitude has to kick in. This is where self-confidence and competence
> has to kick in. This is where we have to sell ourselves, despite our
> hearing loss. Sometimes, we have to demonstrate how we successfully
> turn our "disability" into "ability".
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Sam
>
>
>

--
J. Young, Au.D., F-AAA
Board Certified in Audiology

2280 Optiz Blvd. #340
Woodbridge, VA 22191
Phone: (703)878-0777
Fax: (703)583-1777

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Messages in this topic (11)

1c.

Re: 4th year externships

Posted by: "Julia Fitzer" fitzerjulie@...   fitzerjulie

Wed Dec 5, 2007 7:23 am (PST)

When I was taking case histories in APD clinic, I
found that it was so much information that I would
often repeat what the patients said back to them, as a
way of confirming I was getting the often complicated
stories straight with all the details. One supervisor
took that as a problem- she felt like I was asking
patients to repeat themselves too much. Your story
about the supervisor who thought you shouldn't ask a
patient to repeat a question reminded me of this
experience- and even audiologists with normal hearing
from time to time have to ask a patient to repeat! If
I ever were to do APD again, I might restructure
things a bit to do a little less parroting information
back to patients, but still, given the legal and
clinical importance of getting case history details
straight, I didn't think it was unreasonable at the
time to confirm my understanding with the patients.

Sometimes I'm just amazed at how audiologists act when
confronted with dealing with a hearing loss in a
student or a colleague- the people we would think
would be the most understanding. I admit that there
are probably some limitations on what I can do,
realistically, like you had that experience with the
operating room. Still, it takes some trial and error
to find out what I can do well and what I probably
shouldn't do. Once I get out in the real world, I can
focus on getting a job situation that fits me well,
and maybe consider private practice in order to really
have control over things. Some people have suggested
academia to me as a way of having the flexibility, as
they also think I have some potential in
teaching/research. Still... I've been amazed
sometimes at the audiology community.

Julie

__________________________________________________________
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1d.

Re: 4th year externships

Posted by: "J. Young" audiologydoctor@...   jill_aud

Wed Dec 5, 2007 8:30 am (PST)

I know it's interesting how the audiology field sometimes handles
audiologist with hearing loss. Just ask the people who so desperately try
to get us the services we need at AAA!!! But I think it's safe to say it
gets better and easier every year.

I realized after sending my post that I should have told you how my
externship ended.

After about six-weeks of "opening the lines of communication" and intensive
hard work at making sure I listen to what my patients say....my grade went
back up to an A. And I was proud to have worked with everyone at WRAMC. I
stayed with them for four-months after my externship was over, as they
needed a little extra help through their summer months. And I would've
stayed if they had a permanent opening!

So it was a good ending!

On Dec 5, 2007 10:23 AM, Julia Fitzer <fitzerjulie@...> wrote:

> When I was taking case histories in APD clinic, I
> found that it was so much information that I would
> often repeat what the patients said back to them, as a
> way of confirming I was getting the often complicated
> stories straight with all the details. One supervisor
> took that as a problem- she felt like I was asking
> patients to repeat themselves too much. Your story
> about the supervisor who thought you shouldn't ask a
> patient to repeat a question reminded me of this
> experience- and even audiologists with normal hearing
> from time to time have to ask a patient to repeat! If
> I ever were to do APD again, I might restructure
> things a bit to do a little less parroting information
> back to patients, but still, given the legal and
> clinical importance of getting case history details
> straight, I didn't think it was unreasonable at the
> time to confirm my understanding with the patients.
>
> Sometimes I'm just amazed at how audiologists act when
> confronted with dealing with a hearing loss in a
> student or a colleague- the people we would think
> would be the most understanding. I admit that there
> are probably some limitations on what I can do,
> realistically, like you had that experience with the
> operating room. Still, it takes some trial and error
> to find out what I can do well and what I probably
> shouldn't do. Once I get out in the real world, I can
> focus on getting a job situation that fits me well,
> and maybe consider private practice in order to really
> have control over things. Some people have suggested
> academia to me as a way of having the flexibility, as
> they also think I have some potential in
> teaching/research. Still... I've been amazed
> sometimes at the audiology community.
>
> Julie
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
>
>
>

--
J. Young, Au.D., F-AAA
Board Certified in Audiology

2280 Optiz Blvd. #340
Woodbridge, VA 22191
Phone: (703)878-0777
Fax: (703)583-1777

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Messages in this topic (11)

1e.

Re: 4th year externships

Posted by: "Suzanne Yoder" suzanneyoder2001@...   suzanneyoder2001

Wed Dec 5, 2007 8:52 am (PST)

Julie,

I think that would be wonderful. We need more literature on student accommodations. I think that we are still in the "Master's Mindset" and even that was a weak mindset. I never really understood how this profession could be so lax in its educational standards. From what I have learned of many of my mentors educating yourself has been "organic" from the start. Meaning, you learn as you go, hit or miss. What were they thinking?

I know what you mean about finding the time to write. Time never seems to offer itself up! Suzanne Y. Yoder, AuDDoctor of Audiology Licensed Audiologist - PA

To: HOHAudiologists@...: fitzerjulie@...: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:09:08 -0800Subject: RE: [HOHAudiologists] 4th year externships

Suzanne,You've captured a lot of what I've been feeling, whenyou wrote about being open to "learning with you" and"finding your solutions." I'm wondering if that whole notion of being open tolearning with you, and finding your solutions, can becast into a light that applies to everyone, not justhard of hearing students. Sometimes it can be hardasking for that extra bit from supervisors, especiallyat offsite placements when the teaching isn'tnecessarily their primary focus. Maybe the idea thateveryone has strengths and weaknesses and differentlearning needs.I've had some random conversations with Sam Atchersonabout things, and I'm really thinking about, some timein the future when time allows, sitting down andwriting about the clinical education process and whatneeds to be considered with hearing impaired students.Not so much the nuts and bolts of accommodations, butrather giving people some sense of what it's like andhow to approach it philosophically. As of now, I'll be at AAA in Charlotte. :)Thanks everyone for your comments and perspectives!Julie__________________________________________________________Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ

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