Susan
I appologize for the delay in your posting. Your post was identified
as spam. I finally figured out how to fix the spam issue with the
new filter settings. There shouldn't be further problems. If you
notice again that your messages are not posted within a day, your
message has been flagged. You may want to retype and/or resend with
a different subject line.

As for your question, please reconsider the decision for an amplified
stethoscope. The frequency response of a stethoscope is very poor
for listening to hearing aids. I tried it myself and even got a
modifided amplified stethoscope that would take a DAI. It sounded
terrible. I believe the freq response is like 100-500 Hz and that is
it. plus it is expensive.

other alteratives exist.

Have you considered a different type of listening scope with softer
and more flexible eartips that you can set on top of the hearing aid
mics? I have one that is a true lifesaver. I never could use the
traditional listening scope because they were too tight and rigid and
I could not set them on top of my microphone without smashing my
hearing aid into my skull.

another alternative is custom "earmold" that fits around your hearing
aid if you have an In-the-ear style. I hope our other list members
can explain further since I don't use this option.

Another alternative is to rig-up a personal listener or FM system
with a patch cord. If you use a personal listener you have to tape
the end of the listening scope to the enviromental microphone. Use a
neck loop, earbud, or headset in the audio out (which ever you
prefer). FM is a little more complicated and requires an external
microphone to the transmitter and follow above instructions.

Unfortunately you have to rely on the hearing aids and assistive
devices to be in top notch order. I check my aids about once every
other month in a test box to be sure the response is not changed and
I have my hearing checked frequently. I rarely rely on my listening
checks as the concluding test of hearing aid function. I use it very
crudely to determine, is there amplification? is there obvious
distortion? Does the t-coil function? etc... If the patient
complaint is not obvious to me I run specs. If the specs are good,
then I have a third person listen to the aids.

It helps to limit the number of return visits you get for the same
complaints!

Hope this all helps. Just a little FYI... there are pics of some of
these options on www.amphl.org.

Also you can search previous postings within Yahoo's group and see
what else was said on this topic. It is an ongoing discussion, for
sure.

Suzanne

--- In HOHAudiologists@yahoogroups.com, susan katsoulis
<katsoulis4@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I need to buy an amplified stethoset to do listening checks of
aids. I have a moderately severe cookie bite SNHL. I am also working
with someone who has more severe loss than I do and is also looking
for a new stethoset. Any suggestions?
>
> Susan
>
> Jayna Altman <jaynaaltman@...> wrote:
> Alright everyone... I contacted the Chairperson of
the event myself regarding accessibility issues for the convention.
Here is what she had to say below:
>
> Hi Jayna - thanks for contacting me about this issue. It is
important
> and I have some information below from the Convention Director,
Lisa, in regard to improving access for those with hearing loss:
> From Lisa:
> We are hoping to have Williams Sound Corp back again this year as
our
> ALD provider. They had great equipment and customer service. Some
> glitches but nothing we can't improve upon for 2008. We can
certainly
> use the Gallaudet students as room testers although the Williams
Sound
> people also checked the rooms - two sets of ears is always
better. To
> act as interpreters would be perhaps their biggest usefulness as
we
> always have difficulties in getting good interpreters and they
are very,
> very expensive as we have to get two "technical" interpreters per
person
> per day.
> So - others such as yourself have thought about this issue and
Lisa is
> working with Williams Sound to provide for FM systems and other
> personnel listening devices. We have a contact at Gallaudet
University
> so we will have access to sign language interpreters as well.
> Is there anything else you can think of? If so - please reply to
all
> so Lisa and I can both address the issues you raise. Also - we
will
> keep your name on file and re-contact you for assistance as
needed.
> Thanks again for your input!
> Therese
>
> With that in mind, please email me your suggestions for improved
communication at the conference. Constructive feedback...
>
> Thanks!
> Jayna
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Suzanne Yoder <suzanneyoder2001@...>
> To: HOHAudiologists@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:42:25 PM
> Subject: RE: [HOHAudiologists] Re: AudiologyNOW 2008 proposal (and
letter)
>
> Here's my input on this thread regarding the letter idea
and 2008 accommodations.
>
> ... since the group started getting together there has been a lot
of interest in moving forward with a group effort for the issues that
resurface in our conversations and meetings and listserv
discussions. There have been group letters, articles, letters to the
editor, meetings with AAA board, AAA staff, and heated debates on
SoundOff, etc, etc, etc.
>
> That is all great for continued effort and for becoming "slowly"
recognized as a group… but it has not been enough to solidify this
group. Members have fluctuated in involvement and commitment (myself
included this past year).
>
> As an individual, I have had what you might call success in
getting what I have asked for. AAA Staff knows me by name. Some
recognize my face. Some of the board members also (but this changes
every year). The vendor/provider of assistive devices gets a visit
from me at their booth and they hear my feedback. The AAA convention
chair, the staff and sometimes the entire board gets a letter from me
after the convention is over with my experiences and suggestions for
future changes. I feel that it has been somewhat successful as I
have been able to accomplish my goals, I was able to hear at the
convention this year. In fact, I had no complaints personally. I
worked out a few kinks early in the program and then used the
assistive devices successfully for the rest of the convention. But
that is just me. It has been heartbreaking to see so many problems
continue for others. It has also been a disappointment to me that I
was not able to move others to action and
> accomplish the group's goal as well as my own.
>
> Without a significant number coming forward the "group" just
seems like a collection of people who are never happy and happen to
be the same people every year. In fact I have come to realize that
one, two or three people cannot effectively represent the "group" and
attempts to do so have only been partially recognized by AAA and
probably won't gain much attention now or ever.
>
> I don't think a few swift kicks where it hurts is going to give
us more support. I don't think heated debates and conflict are the
best way to gain what we want. I do agree that supporters would. If
we have some supporters from all directions… board members, staff
members, other presenters, well-known audiologists, and directors for
other support-type groups I think we would be getting somewhere. I
believe we need more support, more involvement, more visibility.
Each person on this list can be a supporter. You can all make a
difference by writing and speaking on issues that we are dealing
with.
>
> I would like to end on a positive note. It is good to see some
spirit again. I think we can do this with the right attitude. I
know there are some very capable members and motivated members in our
group. I think we also have some members with connections. I am
happy to see renewed interest. I look forward to hearing about the
meeting with AAA this fall and I hope Sam is able to organize a group
letter if I have understood his intentions.
>
> The PBwiki is still available as a possible tool. Has anyone
tried to use the wiki or contribute to the "letter" template? Has
anyone tried to log on? I would like to hear your experiences and
feedback. Perhaps this can be the forum for us to work on projects
together. It certainly seems to be a useful idea… how practical it
is I cannot know.
>
> Any of you should feel free to contact me if you would like to
have copies of letters I wrote in the past, "minutes" from our
meetings, slideshows from our discussions, articles, or other
information about the group. I also have downloaded a number of
files onto this Yahoo Listserv… login to group's site to see the
files. Let me know if you have other questions I may be able to help
as I have acted as the group liaison over the years.
>
> Yours,
> Suzanne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HOHAudiologists@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:HOHAudiolog
ists@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Jayna Altman
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 3:40 PM
> To: HOHAudiologists@ yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: [HOHAudiologists] Re: AudiologyNOW 2008 proposal (and
letter)
>
> Brad:
>
> I got an ingenious idea for you since you come across so well
versed on HAT.
>
> They are currently accepting innovative proposals for the 2008
conference for speakers. Here is the link: http://www.audiolog
ynow.org/ present/proposal /
>
> You could center your presentation around common difficult
listening scenerios (such as the courtroom, emergency room,
conferences, etc)... by presenting it as different case studies, and
then present on the various HAT that can best accomodate these areas.
>
> Furthermore, if you do this presentation. ... because
manufacturers are also looking for ways to plug in their products...
you could talk to reps in terms of demonstrating the technology for
those in the audience.... which could lead to a potential sponsor for
improved accomodations at AAA.
>
> It could serve as a foundation, and an way to get our foot in the
door in terms of asking for better listening accomodations.
>
> Just an idea.....
>
> Let me know what you think!
>
> Jayna
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Brad Ingrao, AuD" <bingrao@e-audiology .net>
> To: HOHAudiologists@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:27:38 AM
> Subject: RE: [HOHAudiologists] Re: AudiologyNOW 2008 proposal (and
letter)
> OK folks, here is proof that the universe does in fact pay
attention to what's happening to us ants here on the ground. Just
this morning, the following thread appeared on the AAA listserv,
SoundOFF. I have removed the names of the respondents and have added
my comments to each post preceded by "[bi]" This is not to show how
smart I am, but rather to make a point about the lack of awareness of
the realities of providing access to speech in non-ideal conditions.
Here we go.
>
> It started with this post:
>
> Good morning everyone:
> A patient, who happens to be a lawyer, has difficulty hearing in
the court room. Specifically, this individual has been fit binaurally
with Phonak Savia 211 and needs additional assistance hearing the
judge, the person on the stand, the other lawyer, etc. I have no
concerns regarding the hearing instruments themselves; just trying to
come up with some viable solutions to assist in this environment.
Couple of things comes to mind but I was hoping to get some insight
from my colleagues. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
> XXX PhD, FAAA
> Vice President & General Manager
> Oaktree Products, Inc.
> [bi] OK kudos to this person for asking for advice, but given
where they work, I would have liked some more details about the loss,
speech-in-noise abilities, room acoustics, etc. Guess not.
> First reply out of the gate:
> Phonak makes an "iLINK" that may help
> xxx, AuD
> St Catharines Canada
> [bi] Yes, they do make this product. What data suggests that
this "may help?"
> next...
> Speak to the FM department at Phonak - the smartlink with ML9S
receivers couple to the Savias and should do the job for him.
> xxx
> Hearing Wellness Center
> West Palm Beach, FL 33405
> [bi] Of course, ask the people who sell the stuff. Maybe THEY
have some data to demonstrate how they "should" "do the job."
> next....
> What about an induction loop system? If the aids have T-coils (or
can be retrofitted) seems like that would be a cheaper alternative.
> xxx MS, FAAA
> Audiologist
> Advanced Ear Nose and Throat Associates, PC
> [bi] Here it is folks.. the bottom line. Who needs outcomes when
we can just shop for the cheapest solution?
> next...
> I fit a judge with the smartlink and Savias, he loves it. He
notices a big difference in the courtroom by setting up the mic on
the stand and such.
> Also, talk with Phonak FM department as they may have other
suggestions.
> xxx, Au.D. CCC-A
> Doctor of Audiology
> [bi] Back to the manufacturer and an offering of a single user
solution. Oh, and my favorite pet peeve: Redundancy on the
signature. If the folks on the AAA Listserv don't know that AuD
means "Doctor of Audiology" then we are all in a lot more trouble
than I thought.
> So, I jumped in with this:
> There are several ways to approach this, but all require looking
at the physical and acoustical data, rather than a catalog.
> 1) The patient's job requires optimal speech understanding at
distances well beyond the critical distance of any ear-level
microphone
> 2) Even though most court rooms have pa systems, the speakers are
generally also well beyond the critical distance of the ear level mics
> 3) The acoustics of the court room are most likely sub-optimal at
best.
> The solution set needs to include the "CCC" principle: Capture,
Carry, Couple
> If the court room already has a PA system, then these microphones
will capture the speech at a distance less than 6 inches, which
should be sufficient to maximize S/N
> While an inductance loop would technically work very well, there
are a couple of problems:
> - The need for each and every courtroom to be looped. Not a bad
idea as it would also provide access to anyone in the room with
hearing loss and a telecoil, however
> - Loops are not secure, and people outside the room can listen in
with a simple inductance receiver
> - Adjacent rooms will be able to hear each other
> FM would also seem like a logical choice because of the ease of
movement from room to room and relative ease of connecting the
transmitter to the existing hard wired PA, however
> - There are a finite numbers of channels available, and the
security issue above can still exist if someone had a receiver with
channel hopping ability
> - This only solves the problem for this particular patient, and
does nothing to promote universal accessibility for all people with
court business.
> Infrared is, IMO, the ideal solution for a coupe of reasons:
> - It can easily be added to existing PA
> - Receivers are readily available that allow for earphone, DAI
and neck loop coupling making the entire courtroom accessible
> - Since IR is line of sight, all transmissions stay within the
walls of the courtroom
> Please forward my email address to the court clerk so I can send
them a bill.
> Brad Ingrao, AuD
> [bi] Which was followed by:
> One consideration, besides all the others that were made, would
be the Phonic Ear Lexus/Oticon Amigo FM. The transmitter can be used
via "point and shoot", i.e. aim at the speaker in an ever narrowing
beam. I have a few college students using that, preferring it to
approaching the lecturer to use an FM mic attached to them.
> [bi] Another brand-specific recommendation for a solution that
only helps the lawyer.
> Then the loop guy replies to my post with:
> Brad,
> My information is that the loop can be configured such that only
the principals need to be "in the loop". I believe once you get
beyond about
> 4 feet from the perimeter, stray pick up is very unlikely.
> [bi] To which I reply:
> This is true, however, if you are going to provide access to all
persons in the courtroom, the loop would need to encompass the whole
room. Unless the walls separating adjacent rooms are 4 feet thick, or
you want to "corral"
> all the people with hearing loss into a space in the center of
the room at least 2 feet from any adjacent wall, then I still feel
this is not a good solution.
> The other problem with room loops is that, based on recurring
comments I read on consumer lisstervs, a significant number of people
are still being fit with hearing aids without telecoils, or if they
have them, they are not oriented for optimal function in room loops.
> Brad
> [bi] So it's now lunch time, but I predict this thread will not
see the end of business today. Here is the issue folks. Our
colleagues have no experience in thinking outside the box, and very
few know anything about universal design/accessibilit y. These are
the folks who run AAA and the convention. I'm not saying don't keep
up the fight for accommodations, but at least know what you're up
against, and consider shopping for another convention.
>
> Brad Ingrao
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
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>
> Susan Kilduff- Katsoulis
> 312 Ardsley Road
> Longmeadow, MA. 01106
> 413-567-7282
>
> ---------------------------------
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