Hi John

I understand your point very well and yes one has to
come out of the situation completely and totally.

We have to cry  We cry! Feel the pain, The yearning
exists to have that personality back in our lives, in
form or the other.  Yes the personality sometimes
appears in another form, and I make it a point to
accept it as God's gift.

The opportunity is perhaps to realize and become aware
of one's own temporary existence and role in this
universe and begin to live on a moment to moment
basis.

And the realization that could we be just a mere body?
with so much of wisdom and understanding?

Just a few organs tied together to form a physical
structure compatible for existence on Earth?

Perhaps seems tough to believe.  So the "one" present
in the body lying there, is no more in that body.
He's in a higher state. He's everywhere. Does this
thought give comfort?  Truth is what gives comfort.
Let our minds not rationalize.  They are not equipped
to handle anything beyond 5 senses.

The Names Sandeep and John are needed for some
paperwork here in this world. Its me connected to you
right now.

Theres definitely a difference between losing one's
dear one a day ago and 3 years ago.  Time teaches and
guides, and we learn and these incidents sometimes
help us struggle to get the higher picture, the total
picture.

In fact most of the time in life, the inner eye sees a
different world and outer eye another.  And once we
close our eyes, what we see is the truth.

We know it, and yet sometimes ignore it during happy
times, and then comes the lesson where we have no
alternative but to look deeply and understand "Whats
going on?"

Yes, the person has left this world, his/her worldly
identity has come to an end, but for his spirit, its a
transitional phase, and he/she is still connected with
his near and dear ones, as long as the relationship is
not complete.

We are in constant interaction with so many people at
the same time, many of them dead too, since there's
opportunity for us to realize that we still need to
change, in order for those relationships to complete,
be it childhood memories, or anything else.

I feel in touch with the people who are no more in
this world, and God presents so many interesting ways
to make me feel their presense around us.

I know John, its tough to always be happy and in good
times, and sadness keeps knocking at the door at
times.

Believe me, I am going to ask God this question when I
happen to meet HIM?

I am not going to let HIM go, without answering this
question.

He is answerable to us in all appropriate ways.

Lots of Love
Sandeep




--- J Hum <jhum07@...> wrote:

> Linda, the great hope in this life is that we will
> be raised from the dead, one day, and be reunited
> with God first, and with those we love. I believe
> that too.
>
> My writing to Sandeep wasn't to discourage that, but
> to bring a word of caution from what I've
> experienced. Many people that are grieving the loss
> of a loved one are not comforted with the thought
> their loved ones are in a better place. This is not
> a commentary about those that have died, but the
> feelings of those that are alive, hurting, and
> trying to work through overwhelming feelings.
>
> It's similar to people saying to grievers, "it's
> been quite awhile now. You just need to get over
> it." That's not helpful. It doesn't mean it's coming
> from a mean heart or someone that doesn't care, but
> it doesn't uplift the person that's "not getting
> over it."
>
> But Linda, I'm glad you brought it up because I
> would not want to seem like I was discouraging our
> eternal hope.
>
> John
>
> Linda Hatchett <lindajean3@...> wrote:
> I for one found Sandeeps comments very comforting.
> I have saved it so I can read it whenever I feel
> sad.
>
> I really appreciate what she wrote and don't think I
> could face this life without those I've lost if I
> wasn't confident that they have just moved on to
> another (better) place and that we will all be
> together at some point.
>
> I would not want to be a part of any group that left
> the spiritual aspects of living and dieing out of
> the conversation.  I'm not a regular church goer,
> and by some peoples view, probably not a very good
> Christian.  But I have worked out my own beliefs and
> I feel them very strongly...these do include a
> connection with God and the next life.
>
> Linda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: J Hum
> To: Grief_Group@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 1:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Grief_Group] Hi Lisa
>
>
> Hi Sandeep,
> Thanks for writing.
> I appreciated many things you wrote in response to
> Lisa's posting, and I'm sure you have been really
> strengthened and encouraged as you've worked through
> the grief of losing your father. I would like to add
> a word of caution for our group, here, though, that
> a completely "spiritual" approach to grief or losing
> a loved one is not always helpful to everyone.
>
> In fact, sometimes it can be a hindrance because
> they're trying to sift through really difficult
> emotions, and the thought of our eternal destination
> can seem more overwhelming than helpful. One of the
> reasons why is that they hear that God is now taking
> care of their loved ones, but the griever wonders
> why God didn't "take care" of their loved ones
> before they died (I think of the story of Lazarus
> and his sisters in the Bible in John chapter 11).
>
> I add this word of caution because I don't want
> anyone here to feel that they have to see their
> loved one in a certain state (celestial beings
> watching over them) if it increases the hurt they're
> currently experiencing in grief.
>
> This is not to say we don't talk about these
> important things, here, and that we have to check
> our beliefs "in at that door," but that we share in
> a way of the things that have helped us, and not
> that everyone has to experience their grief in the
> same way.
>
> I hope that doesn't come across harsh or judgmental.
>
> John
>
> Sandeep Khurana <powerphenomenon@...> wrote:
> Dear Lisa,
>
> Its a tough phase to go through Lisa but time heals
> and we begin to understand that he who has left his
> body is there in the spiritual form always with us,
> to
> guide us,
>
> and that we are also here to fulfil our purpose on
> this planet, and we become aware of the purpose
> through our desires.
>
> I lost my Dad a few years, it was unbelievable when
> the Dr said, your father is no more
>
> "No More? what do you mean by no more, theres
> nothing
> like no more."
>
> My heart was like shattered and dead.  Life was
> frustrating, meanlingless, directionless to an
> extent.
> And I cried, time after time.
>
> After a lot of inner journey I realized that my
> father
> is no more in the old body and god has blessed him
> with his next assignment, and the next form is
> higher
> and blissful,
>
> if u close ur eyes, the smiling face of your father
> shall appear, blissful, free and connected with you
> even more, closer to you than before, blessing you
> every moment.
>
> Since there was a time in history, when his(your
> father's) father also left for his heavenly abode,
> and
> he missed and yearned to be with him but only after
> completing his "work" on this planet.  Now they r
> together and watching you and connected to you
> spiritually.
>
> Be aware of this eternal connection witn your
> forefathers Lisa, its there to help you and guide
> you.
>
> Also Think of the responsibilities you have for the
> next generation. And you are a just a pearl in this
> necklace of life.
>
> We are all here to fulfill our mission, our energy
> exchange, For example I dont know u physically, you
> have not seen me, yet it does not matter.
>
> I feel what you are going thru and wish the best for
> you.
>
> We are linked together by this unconditional love,
> and
> this is eternal.
>
> So take care, keep sharing whatever you feel, about
> the present, and about being with your father
>
>
> God Bless you
> Sandeep
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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> phone.
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I for one found Sandeeps comments very comforting.  I have saved it so I can read it whenever I feel sad.

 

I really appreciate what she wrote and don't think I could face this life without those I've lost if I wasn't confident that they have just moved on to another (better) place and that we will all be together at some point.

 

I would not want to be a part of any group that left the spiritual aspects of living and dieing out of the conversation.  I'm not a regular church goer, and by some peoples view, probably not a very good Christian.  But I have worked out my own beliefs and I feel them very strongly...these do include a connection with God and the next life.

 

Linda

----- Original Message -----

From: J Hum

To: Grief_Group@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 1:47 PM

Subject: Re: [Grief_Group] Hi Lisa

Hi Sandeep,

Thanks for writing.

I appreciated many things you wrote in response to Lisa's posting, and I'm sure you have been really strengthened and encouraged as you've worked through the grief of losing your father. I would like to add a word of caution for our group, here, though, that a completely "spiritual" approach to grief or losing a loved one is not always helpful to everyone.

 

In fact, sometimes it can be a hindrance because they're trying to sift through really difficult emotions, and the thought of our eternal destination can seem more overwhelming than helpful. One of the reasons why is that they hear that God is now taking care of their loved ones, but the griever wonders why God didn't "take care" of their loved ones before they died (I think of the story of Lazarus and his sisters in the Bible in John chapter 11).

 

I add this word of caution because I don't want anyone here to feel that they have to see their loved one in a certain state (celestial beings watching over them) if it increases the hurt they're currently experiencing in grief.

 

This is not to say we don't talk about these important things, here, and that we have to check our beliefs "in at that door," but that we share in a way of the things that have helped us, and not that everyone has to experience their grief in the same way.

 

I hope that doesn't come across harsh or judgmental.

 

John

Sandeep Khurana <powerphenomenon@...> wrote:

Dear Lisa,

Its a tough phase to go through Lisa but time heals
and we begin to understand that he who has left his
body is there in the spiritual form always with us, to
guide us,

and that we are also here to fulfil our purpose on
this planet, and we become aware of the purpose
through our desires.

I lost my Dad a few years, it was unbelievable when
the Dr said, your father is no more

"No More? what do you mean by no more, theres nothing
like no more."

My heart was like shattered and dead.  Life was
frustrating, meanlingless, directionless to an extent.
And I cried, time after time.

After a lot of inner journey I realized that my father
is no more in the old body and god has blessed him
with his next assignment, and the next form is higher
and blissful,

if u close ur eyes, the smiling face of your father
shall appear, blissful, free and connected with you
even more, closer to you than before, blessing you
every moment.

Since there was a time in history, when his(your
father's) father also left for his heavenly abode, and
he missed and yearned to be with him but only after
completing his "work" on this planet.  Now they r
together and watching you and connected to you
spiritually.

Be aware of this eternal connection witn your
forefathers Lisa, its there to help you and guide you.

Also Think of the responsibilities you have for the
next generation. And you are a just a pearl in this
necklace of life.

We are all here to fulfill our mission, our energy
exchange, For example I dont know u physically, you
have not seen me, yet it does not matter.

I feel what you are going thru and wish the best for
you.

We are linked together by this unconditional love, and
this is eternal.

So take care, keep sharing whatever you feel, about
the present, and about being with your father


God Bless you
Sandeep











           
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----- Original Message -----

From: J Hum

To: Grief_Group@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 1:47 PM

Subject: Re: [Grief_Group] Hi Lisa

Hi Sandeep,

Thanks for writing.

I appreciated many things you wrote in response to Lisa's posting, and I'm sure you have been really strengthened and encouraged as you've worked through the grief of losing your father. I would like to add a word of caution for our group, here, though, that a completely "spiritual" approach to grief or losing a loved one is not always helpful to everyone.

 

In fact, sometimes it can be a hindrance because they're trying to sift through really difficult emotions, and the thought of our eternal destination can seem more overwhelming than helpful. One of the reasons why is that they hear that God is now taking care of their loved ones, but the griever wonders why God didn't "take care" of their loved ones before they died (I think of the story of Lazarus and his sisters in the Bible in John chapter 11).

 

I add this word of caution because I don't want anyone here to feel that they have to see their loved one in a certain state (celestial beings watching over them) if it increases the hurt they're currently experiencing in grief.

 

This is not to say we don't talk about these important things, here, and that we have to check our beliefs "in at that door," but that we share in a way of the things that have helped us, and not that everyone has to experience their grief in the same way.

 

I hope that doesn't come across harsh or judgmental.

 

John

Sandeep Khurana <powerphenomenon@...> wrote:

Dear Lisa,

Its a tough phase to go through Lisa but time heals
and we begin to understand that he who has left his
body is there in the spiritual form always with us, to
guide us,

and that we are also here to fulfil our purpose on
this planet, and we become aware of the purpose
through our desires.

I lost my Dad a few years, it was unbelievable when
the Dr said, your father is no more

"No More? what do you mean by no more, theres nothing
like no more."

My heart was like shattered and dead.  Life was
frustrating, meanlingless, directionless to an extent.
And I cried, time after time.

After a lot of inner journey I realized that my father
is no more in the old body and god has blessed him
with his next assignment, and the next form is higher
and blissful,

if u close ur eyes, the smiling face of your father
shall appear, blissful, free and connected with you
even more, closer to you than before, blessing you
every moment.

Since there was a time in history, when his(your
father's) father also left for his heavenly abode, and
he missed and yearned to be with him but only after
completing his "work" on this planet.  Now they r
together and watching you and connected to you
spiritually.

Be aware of this eternal connection witn your
forefathers Lisa, its there to help you and guide you.

Also Think of the responsibilities you have for the
next generation. And you are a just a pearl in this
necklace of life.

We are all here to fulfill our mission, our energy
exchange, For example I dont know u physically, you
have not seen me, yet it does not matter.

I feel what you are going thru and wish the best for
you.

We are linked together by this unconditional love, and
this is eternal.

So take care, keep sharing whatever you feel, about
the present, and about being with your father


God Bless you
Sandeep











           
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I have been very blessed with 2 good parents.  I could go on and on but I won't.  If you ever need to vent you can email me.  Watching someone you love decline is awful and I am here to listen if you ever need an ear.

Lisa

J Hum <jhum07@...> wrote:

Wow, Lisa, that was awesome. What a great description of your father. Now I miss him too

lol.

 

Please don't apologize for length in your writing. Feel free to write till you feel like stopping. If someone doesn't want to read, here, they can skip over it. But for those who want to read, and probably more importantly for you who wants to write, it's a blessing.

 

I think if my wife and kids described me, it might sound similar to your dad. I can tell because reading his bio, I aspire to be what he was!

 

How did he feel about his illness? Did he feel shorted on life, or was he a guy that just kind of rolled with the things that came his way? Prolonged illness is so difficult. That poor man went through so much, and you all went through it with him. He was better off because of that, but I'm sure it was still really hard on everyone.

 

I would like to respond to your comments/questions:

What my friends don't understand is that his death is as much a part of my day as his life was and I don't know how to deal with that yet really.  Make sense?

I think friends try to be helpful, but it's an awkward thing for many because so few are really around death and dying. Part of grieving is holding on to specific memories out of fear we're going to forget or move past our loved ones. With time, the memories tend to get reshaped and we move past some of the painful parts (like the final days or weeks when a loved one might have been in real pain or really scared at the prospects of dying) and start gravitating towards the good times.

It's just hard when it's someone as wonderful as your dad was. There's no way to replace the compliments, or his attitude, and we see the total opposite of that in the media, movies, etc. everyday that we all long for more people like your dad to be around us. However, I'm sure you have quite a few of your dad's attributes and bless people around you because of it. That doesn't help you to not miss him, but it's a beautiful reflection of his life and legacy.

Have you lost a parent or a loved one?

I'm actually going through it right now. My mom has memory loss and we had to place her in a care facility and dad is declining daily. I'm running out of writing time and this is getting a bit long already too, but I'll write more about my losses later. Thanks for asking.

Take care,

John

Hi John,

I love your name that was my Dad's name.  Close friends and my mom called him Johnny.  First, he had been sick for decades really so it was not unexpected.  But the decline after his surgery was unexpected. Once he was back in the hospital though we knew he would not be home.  He was 59 by less than a month.  The story of his illness is really long so I will try to keep it within the cliff notes version.  As time goes on I will tell you more stories that happened to him.  There are many.

His illness started with kidney failure.  I don't know if anyone close to you has ever had a terminal illness but it's a circle you start with this and that causes this and the meds you have to take to help with one thing cause another.  He was on dialysis for a few years until he had a kidney transplant.  He got double pneumonia and was actually in ICU for 3 months and then in a regular room a month in 1987.  He actually got that because when you are on Tetracyclene (sp) it breaks down your ammunities and he just didn't realize he was that sick until it was too late.  Anyway, while he was sick he lost alot of weight I would bet he weighed no more than 110 lbs and he was 5'11.  He never gained the weight back so from then on he was weaker than before.  Anyway, his blood didn't clot after he got sick so he was always having to have transfusions.  He got Hep C from a transfusion before they knew what it was or how to prevent it and from that he got Scirosis (sp) of the liver.  The Scirosis causes verisees (sp) which is where the blood vessels in either your stomach or intestines (I'm not sure which) burst and cause internal bleeding and cause you to throw up blood.  He started losing weight he didn't have to lose and they never figured out why.  He really started getting weaker alot faster about 6 months ago.  Looking back I noticed a change in him.  In the end his dr.'s recommended surgery to remove a cist under his left arm and to remove the shunt that they had used for dialysis.  (His vessels were collapsing so they kept having to move the shunt and build up his veins to get him thru the dialysis).  He was so thin and weak at that point the rest of us couldn't figure out why they did the surgery or why we let them.  After the surgery he came home for a week and then was back in the hospital and he was there for about 2 weeks until he passed away.  We knew, in the beginning they said he would probably last 3 months but he was not going to get to come home.  We would have to put him in what they call Life Care because they provide dialysis.  They could never release him because he was so thin I would guess by this point he weighed less than 100 lbs and his heart would race and they would have to shock it back to a normal.   They kept having to take him off the dialysis machines early because he was too weak to finish.  He wasn't (and hadn't been really in a while) eating so they put him on a feeding tube.  The dr.'s at this point started telling us we had months, then something would happen and it would be weeks or days then it would go back to months.  I asked his nurse what she thought and (after some coaxing) she said 4 days and he lasted 3.  It was peaceful.  He just slowly left.  We watched the monitor (actually we had been watching from day 1) just slow down.  Several days before he was not responding to us really.  His eyes were open and sometimes he would respond to movement but to you or your voice.  I was not with him when it happened but my brother was and he said he just exhaled.  I'm glad it was peaceful.  This was still pretty long but it was just the tip of the iceberg.  I can go into more detail later. He went thru some pretty horrible things things that would make anyone else just crawl into a dark hole and not come out.

That brings me to the person he was.  He was without a doubt the strongest most loyal person I've ever known and I'm sure ever will.   If someone came to see him he was more worried about making them ok with his condition than telling you what he was going thru.  When people asked him he would say he was great and would turn the conversation to them.  He was salesman, too, he sold Lear Jets and small planes like Piper and Beechcraft (before they went under).  Also, if I had a friend over he would talk to them and ask them about their lives and make them feel important.  No matter how much time passed from 1 visit to the next he would remember their kids names jobs, etc. because he knew those things were important to them.  He was my biggest fan and supporter.  We live close to each other and they take care of my daughter after school so I saw him everyday and talked to him on the phone at least once a day to check on him.  Everytime I talked to him or saw him he would tell me how much he loved me how proud of me he was.  He would say things like "you look nice" or "I like your hair that way" like specific compliments.  He would always say when you get to where you're going remember the people in the room are lucky when you walk to be graced with your presence.  He did the same for my mom.  We also said "I love you" everytime we spoke or saw each other no matter how many times we had already talked that day.  Some of this was probably because he was so ill and every year had a life threatening incident where we thought he was not coming home.  So we never had the luxury of time so we always said and did what needed to be done.  I am so proud of him.  Other people will still walk up to me to tell me that when they were looking for a salesman and they asked around for an honest one in every instance the one name that kept coming up was my Dad's.  There are so many examples I could give you.  I will tell 1 more story.  My parent's and some of their friends were talking about another man that was not there.  My dad said that this man truly honored his family.  The other husband then said no the only man that I have ever met that truly honors and repects his family in front of them and away from them is Johnny.  He said my dad even in a group of men he has never even given the impression that he does not adore his family in all the years he'd known him.  I love that story so I had to tell you.  To be honest this is just the tip of the iceberg on how good a person he was.

I'm sorry this is so long I will keep my future posts shorter.  Thank you for emailing me and asking about him.  I love to talk about him and need to talk about him.  What my friends don't understand is that his death is as much a part of my day as his life was and I don't know how to deal with that yet really.  Make sense?

Have you lost a parent or a loved one? 

Thanks for responding,

Lisa

J Hum <jhum07@...> wrote:

Hi Lisa,

It's good to hear from you. Sorry for your loss. For some August to Feb. might seem like a long time, but it's not really that long of a time of grieving for such a significant loss. In fact, it's not that long of a time for someone that wasn't that close to their parent, and you described your relationship as "very close," so the ongoing hurt is to be expected in many ways.

 

If it would be helpful for you, maybe you could share with us about your dad. What was he like, what was your relationship like, and how did he die (was it "expected")?

 

Thanks for writing.

John

Lisa <lisahicks13@...> wrote:

Hello, I joined this group because I lost my father August 21.  We
were very close.  I had no idea how hard this would be and how hard
it would be to comprehend what "forever" really means.  I still
haven't.  Hopefully someone who has been thru this will have some
words of wisdom.

Lisa
Saragypsy

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I love your name that was my Dad's name.  Close friends and my mom called him Johnny.  First, he had been sick for decades really so it was not unexpected.  But the decline after his surgery was unexpected. Once he was back in the hospital though we knew he would not be home.  He was 59 by less than a month.  The story of his illness is really long so I will try to keep it within the cliff notes version.  As time goes on I will tell you more stories that happened to him.  There are many.

His illness started with kidney failure.  I don't know if anyone close to you has ever had a terminal illness but it's a circle you start with this and that causes this and the meds you have to take to help with one thing cause another.  He was on dialysis for a few years until he had a kidney transplant.  He got double pneumonia and was actually in ICU for 3 months and then in a regular room a month in 1987.  He actually got that because when you are on Tetracyclene (sp) it breaks down your ammunities and he just didn't realize he was that sick until it was too late.  Anyway, while he was sick he lost alot of weight I would bet he weighed no more than 110 lbs and he was 5'11.  He never gained the weight back so from then on he was weaker than before.  Anyway, his blood didn't clot after he got sick so he was always having to have transfusions.  He got Hep C from a transfusion before they knew what it was or how to prevent it and from that he got Scirosis (sp) of the liver.  The Scirosis causes verisees (sp) which is where the blood vessels in either your stomach or intestines (I'm not sure which) burst and cause internal bleeding and cause you to throw up blood.  He started losing weight he didn't have to lose and they never figured out why.  He really started getting weaker alot faster about 6 months ago.  Looking back I noticed a change in him.  In the end his dr.'s recommended surgery to remove a cist under his left arm and to remove the shunt that they had used for dialysis.  (His vessels were collapsing so they kept having to move the shunt and build up his veins to get him thru the dialysis).  He was so thin and weak at that point the rest of us couldn't figure out why they did the surgery or why we let them.  After the surgery he came home for a week and then was back in the hospital and he was there for about 2 weeks until he passed away.  We knew, in the beginning they said he would probably last 3 months but he was not going to get to come home.  We would have to put him in what they call Life Care because they provide dialysis.  They could never release him because he was so thin I would guess by this point he weighed less than 100 lbs and his heart would race and they would have to shock it back to a normal.   They kept having to take him off the dialysis machines early because he was too weak to finish.  He wasn't (and hadn't been really in a while) eating so they put him on a feeding tube.  The dr.'s at this point started telling us we had months, then something would happen and it would be weeks or days then it would go back to months.  I asked his nurse what she thought and (after some coaxing) she said 4 days and he lasted 3.  It was peaceful.  He just slowly left.  We watched the monitor (actually we had been watching from day 1) just slow down.  Several days before he was not responding to us really.  His eyes were open and sometimes he would respond to movement but to you or your voice.  I was not with him when it happened but my brother was and he said he just exhaled.  I'm glad it was peaceful.  This was still pretty long but it was just the tip of the iceberg.  I can go into more detail later. He went thru some pretty horrible things things that would make anyone else just crawl into a dark hole and not come out.

That brings me to the person he was.  He was without a doubt the strongest most loyal person I've ever known and I'm sure ever will.   If someone came to see him he was more worried about making them ok with his condition than telling you what he was going thru.  When people asked him he would say he was great and would turn the conversation to them.  He was salesman, too, he sold Lear Jets and small planes like Piper and Beechcraft (before they went under).  Also, if I had a friend over he would talk to them and ask them about their lives and make them feel important.  No matter how much time passed from 1 visit to the next he would remember their kids names jobs, etc. because he knew those things were important to them.  He was my biggest fan and supporter.  We live close to each other and they take care of my daughter after school so I saw him everyday and talked to him on the phone at least once a day to check on him.  Everytime I talked to him or saw him he would tell me how much he loved me how proud of me he was.  He would say things like "you look nice" or "I like your hair that way" like specific compliments.  He would always say when you get to where you're going remember the people in the room are lucky when you walk to be graced with your presence.  He did the same for my mom.  We also said "I love you" everytime we spoke or saw each other no matter how many times we had already talked that day.  Some of this was probably because he was so ill and every year had a life threatening incident where we thought he was not coming home.  So we never had the luxury of time so we always said and did what needed to be done.  I am so proud of him.  Other people will still walk up to me to tell me that when they were looking for a salesman and they asked around for an honest one in every instance the one name that kept coming up was my Dad's.  There are so many examples I could give you.  I will tell 1 more story.  My parent's and some of their friends were talking about another man that was not there.  My dad said that this man truly honored his family.  The other husband then said no the only man that I have ever met that truly honors and repects his family in front of them and away from them is Johnny.  He said my dad even in a group of men he has never even given the impression that he does not adore his family in all the years he'd known him.  I love that story so I had to tell you.  To be honest this is just the tip of the iceberg on how good a person he was.

I'm sorry this is so long I will keep my future posts shorter.  Thank you for emailing me and asking about him.  I love to talk about him and need to talk about him.  What my friends don't understand is that his death is as much a part of my day as his life was and I don't know how to deal with that yet really.  Make sense?

Have you lost a parent or a loved one? 

Thanks for responding,

Lisa

J Hum <jhum07@...> wrote:

Hi Lisa,

It's good to hear from you. Sorry for your loss. For some August to Feb. might seem like a long time, but it's not really that long of a time of grieving for such a significant loss. In fact, it's not that long of a time for someone that wasn't that close to their parent, and you described your relationship as "very close," so the ongoing hurt is to be expected in many ways.

 

If it would be helpful for you, maybe you could share with us about your dad. What was he like, what was your relationship like, and how did he die (was it "expected")?

 

Thanks for writing.

John

Lisa <lisahicks13@...> wrote:

Hello, I joined this group because I lost my father August 21.  We
were very close.  I had no idea how hard this would be and how hard
it would be to comprehend what "forever" really means.  I still
haven't.  Hopefully someone who has been thru this will have some
words of wisdom.

Lisa
Saragypsy

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Dear Lisa,

Its a tough phase to go through Lisa but time heals
and we begin to understand that he who has left his
body is there in the spiritual form always with us, to
guide us,

and that we are also here to fulfil our purpose on
this planet, and we become aware of the purpose
through our desires.

I lost my Dad a few years, it was unbelievable when
the Dr said, your father is no more

"No More? what do you mean by no more, theres nothing
like no more."

  My heart was like shattered and dead.  Life was
frustrating, meanlingless, directionless to an extent.
And I cried, time after time.

After a lot of inner journey I realized that my father
is no more in the old body and god has blessed him
with his next assignment, and the next form is higher
and blissful,

if u close ur eyes, the smiling face of your father
shall appear, blissful, free and connected with you
even more, closer to you than before, blessing you
every moment.

Since there was a time in history, when his(your
father's) father also left for his heavenly abode, and
he missed and yearned to be with him but only after
completing his "work" on this planet.  Now they r
together and watching you and connected to you
spiritually.

Be aware of this eternal connection witn your
forefathers Lisa, its there to help you and guide you.

Also Think of the responsibilities you have for the
next generation. And you are a just a pearl in this
necklace of life.

We are all here to fulfill our mission, our energy
exchange, For example I dont know u physically, you
have not seen me, yet it does not matter.

I feel what you are going thru and wish the best for
you.

We are linked together by this unconditional love, and
this is eternal.

So take care, keep sharing whatever you feel, about
the present, and about being with your father


God Bless you
Sandeep












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Hello, I joined this group because I lost my father August 21.  We
were very close.  I had no idea how hard this would be and how hard
it would be to comprehend what "forever" really means.  I still
haven't.  Hopefully someone who has been thru this will have some
words of wisdom.

Lisa
Saragypsy

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Hello, I joined this group because I lost my father August 21.  We
were very close.  I had no idea how hard this would be and how hard
it would be to comprehend what "forever" really means.  I still
haven't.  Hopefully someone who has been thru this will have some
words of wisdom.

Lisa
Saragypsy

John,

Thanks so much for writing back. I'm curious how different it is running a grief group face to face with others, in comparison with your involvement with this online group? Do you run this group as well or are you a group member? I am looking forward to running my own group someday. How did you go about starting a group? Are you constantly reliving your own grief while helping others with theirs? I'm sorry I actually have so many questions, but I won't bombard you with them all at once. Thanks again for your response.

-Melissa

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Hi. My name is Melissa, and I am working on my  masters in marriage
and family therapy. I am learning how to run various groups, and am
cruious about running groups like this online. I lost my 25 year old
brother in a car accident back in 1999, and have watched my family
go through so many extreme changes over the last five years. My hope
is that one day I will be able to help bereaved families cope with
their loss, and reorginize their family system. I look forward to
chatting with some of you to get a better idea about your
experiences with this group of any other grief grop for that matter.
As I begin to journey down this road, I would like to be able to
offer the best kind of help for grieving families. The best way I
know how to do this is to get to know more families like my own who
have had to deal with a loss, and start a new life.

Hi. My name is Melissa, and I am working on my  masters in marriage
and family therapy. I am learning how to run various groups, and am
cruious about running groups like this online. I lost my 25 year old
brother in a car accident back in 1999, and have watched my family
go through so many extreme changes over the last five years. My hope
is that one day I will be able to help bereaved families cope with
their loss, and reorginize their family system. I look forward to
chatting with some of you to get a better idea about your
experiences with this group of any other grief grop for that matter.
As I begin to journey down this road, I would like to be able to
offer the best kind of help for grieving families. The best way I
know how to do this is to get to know more families like my own who
have had to deal with a loss, and start a new life.

Hello, Jay and group.  Thanks for your message.  What I mean by spiritual
Dad is that William was older than me and knew the Lord longer.  I could
talk with him about anything and we had good counsel together.  When we
would get together, we would share our concerns about things that were
going on in our lives.  We would ask each other what the other person
thought about it.  Then we would both pray silently about it and when we
compared the understanding we both got from the Lord, it was the same.
It was amazing how the Lord gave us that kind of unity in the Spirit.
Well, these past few days have been very hard for some reason so I don't
really know what else to say.  Kind of out of words.

Thanks.  Meagan

Hi, my name is Meagan.  I would first like to say that I am very sorry
for all your losses.  I lost my spiritual Dad in 2002 and it is still
very hard.  It was very sudden, and I was with him when he died.  This
was terribly hard, but I wouldn't have had it any other way.  I am very
glad I could be there for him and the family.  I was his family too, and
I was closer to him than my own family.  Honestly, I have never been
closer to anyone else except our Lord Jesus.  I hope I can be of
encouragement and help in this group.  Take care everyone, and try to
take care of your bodies because you'll be less likely to get sick.

Praying for you.

Meagan

Hi, my name is Meagan.  I would first like to say that I am very sorry
for all your losses.  I lost my spiritual Dad in 2002 and it is still
very hard.  It was very sudden, and I was with him when he died.  This
was terribly hard, but I wouldn't have had it any other way.  I am very
glad I could be there for him and the family.  I was his family too, and
I was closer to him than my own family.  Honestly, I have never been
closer to anyone else except our Lord Jesus.  I hope I can be of
encouragement and help in this group.  Take care everyone, and try to
take care of your bodies because you'll be less likely to get sick.

Praying for you.

Meagan

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----- Original Message -----

From: javamama92

To: Grief_Group@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 7:54 PM

Subject: [Grief_Group] A TRIBUTE TO ALL MOTHERS

MESSAGE SENT TO ME, MADE ME THINK OF MY MOM (PASSED 09/30/04);

For those who are lucky to still be blessed with your Mom this is
>beautiful. For those who aren't, this is even more beautiful.
>
>The young mother set her foot on the path of life. "Is this the long
way?" she asked.
>And the guide said "Yes, and the way is hard. And you will be old
>before you reach the end of it. But the end will be better than the
beginning."
>
>But the young mother was happy, and she would not believe that
anything
>could be better than these years.
>
>So she played with her children, she fed them and bathed them, and
>taught them how to tie their shoes and ride a bike and reminded them
to
>feed the dog, and do their homework and brush their teeth.
>
>The sun shone on them, and the young Mother cried, "Nothing will
ever be lovelier than this."
>
>Then the nights came, and the storms, and the path was sometimes
dark,
>and the children shook with fear and cold, and the mother drew them
>close and covered them with her arms, and the children
said, "Mother, we
>are not afraid, for you are near, and no harm can come."
>
>And the morning came, and there was a hill ahead, and the children
>climbed and grew weary, and the mother was weary. But at all times
she
>said to the children, "A little patience and we are there."
>
>So the children climbed, and as they climbed they learned to weather
>the storms. And with this, she gave them strength to face the world.
Year
>after year, she showed them compassion, understanding, hope, but
most of all unconditional love.
>
>And when they reached the top they said, "Mother, we would not have
done it without you."
>
>The days went on, and the weeks and the months and the years, and
the
>mother grew old and she became little and bent. But her children
were
>tall and strong, and walked with courage. And the mother, when she
lay
>down at night, looked up at the stars and said, "This is a better
day than
>the last, for my children have learned so much and are now passing
these
>traits on to their children."
>
>And when the way became rough for her, they lifted her, and gave her
>their strength, just as she had given them hers.
>One day they came to a hill, and beyond the hill, they could see a
>shining road and golden gates flung wide.
>
>And mother said: "I have reached the end of my journey. And now I
know
>the end is better than the beginning, for my children can walk with
>dignity and pride, with their heads held high, and so can their
children after them."
>
>And the children said, " You will always walk with us, Mother, even
>when you have gone through the gates." And they stood and watched
her as
>she went on alone, and the gates closed after her. And they
said: "We
>cannot see her, but she is with us still. A Mother like ours is more
than a
>memory. She is a living presence."
>
>Your Mother is always with you. She's the whisper of the leaves as
you
>walk down the street, she's the smell of certain foods you remember,
>flowers you pick and perfume that she wore, she's the cool hand on
your brow
>when you're not feeling well, she's your breath in the air on a cold
>winter's day. She is the sound of the rain that lulls you to sleep,
the colors of a
>rainbow, she is Christmas morning.
>
>Your Mother lives inside your laughter. And she's crystallized in
every tear drop.
>A mother shows every emotion..........happiness, sadness, fear,
jealousy,
>love, hate, anger, helplessness, excitement, joy, sorrow.....and all
the
>while, hoping and praying you will only know the good feelings in
life.
>
>She's the place you came from, your first home, and she's the map
you
>follow with every step you take. She's your first love, your first
friend,
>even your first enemy, but nothing on earth can separate you. Not
time,
>not space...............not even death!
>
>PASS THIS ON TO ALL THE MOTHERS AND DAUGHTERS AND SONS YOU KNOW....
>MAY WE NEVER TAKE OUR MOTHERS FOR GRANTED

MESSAGE SENT TO ME, MADE ME THINK OF MY MOM (PASSED 09/30/04);

For those who are lucky to still be blessed with your Mom this is
>beautiful. For those who aren't, this is even more beautiful.
>
>The young mother set her foot on the path of life. "Is this the long
way?" she asked.
>And the guide said "Yes, and the way is hard. And you will be old
>before you reach the end of it. But the end will be better than the
beginning."
>
>But the young mother was happy, and she would not believe that
anything
>could be better than these years.
>
>So she played with her children, she fed them and bathed them, and
>taught them how to tie their shoes and ride a bike and reminded them
to
>feed the dog, and do their homework and brush their teeth.
>
>The sun shone on them, and the young Mother cried, "Nothing will
ever be lovelier than this."
>
>Then the nights came, and the storms, and the path was sometimes
dark,
>and the children shook with fear and cold, and the mother drew them
>close and covered them with her arms, and the children
said, "Mother, we
>are not afraid, for you are near, and no harm can come."
>
>And the morning came, and there was a hill ahead, and the children
>climbed and grew weary, and the mother was weary. But at all times
she
>said to the children, "A little patience and we are there."
>
>So the children climbed, and as they climbed they learned to weather
>the storms. And with this, she gave them strength to face the world.
Year
>after year, she showed them compassion, understanding, hope, but
most of all unconditional love.
>
>And when they reached the top they said, "Mother, we would not have
done it without you."
>
>The days went on, and the weeks and the months and the years, and
the
>mother grew old and she became little and bent. But her children
were
>tall and strong, and walked with courage. And the mother, when she
lay
>down at night, looked up at the stars and said, "This is a better
day than
>the last, for my children have learned so much and are now passing
these
>traits on to their children."
>
>And when the way became rough for her, they lifted her, and gave her
>their strength, just as she had given them hers.
>One day they came to a hill, and beyond the hill, they could see a
>shining road and golden gates flung wide.
>
>And mother said: "I have reached the end of my journey. And now I
know
>the end is better than the beginning, for my children can walk with
>dignity and pride, with their heads held high, and so can their
children after them."
>
>And the children said, " You will always walk with us, Mother, even
>when you have gone through the gates." And they stood and watched
her as
>she went on alone, and the gates closed after her. And they
said: "We
>cannot see her, but she is with us still. A Mother like ours is more
than a
>memory. She is a living presence."
>
>Your Mother is always with you. She's the whisper of the leaves as
you
>walk down the street, she's the smell of certain foods you remember,
>flowers you pick and perfume that she wore, she's the cool hand on
your brow
>when you're not feeling well, she's your breath in the air on a cold
>winter's day. She is the sound of the rain that lulls you to sleep,
the colors of a
>rainbow, she is Christmas morning.
>
>Your Mother lives inside your laughter. And she's crystallized in
every tear drop.
>A mother shows every emotion..........happiness, sadness, fear,
jealousy,
>love, hate, anger, helplessness, excitement, joy, sorrow.....and all
the
>while, hoping and praying you will only know the good feelings in
life.
>
>She's the place you came from, your first home, and she's the map
you
>follow with every step you take. She's your first love, your first
friend,
>even your first enemy, but nothing on earth can separate you. Not
time,
>not space...............not even death!
>
>PASS THIS ON TO ALL THE MOTHERS AND DAUGHTERS AND SONS YOU KNOW....
>MAY WE NEVER TAKE OUR MOTHERS FOR GRANTED

 
What I'm confused about is life basically. And about my future. She was supposed to be in it, and we had our future all planned out. Yes they were just dreams, but it had me looking forward to something and I don't have that anymore. I'm trying to find something that will keep me going, something to look forward to.

Did she leave a note or a letter explaining why she took her life? If she was making plans for her future with you it doesn't sound like she didn't think there would be a future. Somehow the pain she was feeling inside overwhelmed her ability to carry on in life and fulfill those plans.

 

If you would like to talk about some of those plans, Petra, and your friend that died, I'd like hearing about her/those plans.

 

As for your thoughts about the future. Right now you're hurting pretty badly. If you had been in a car accident or something a few months ago and sustained serious injury, you'd still be recovering. You were hurt, emotionally, a few months ago and you deserve the same opportunity to heal from the deep hurt. Future plans might seem a bit overwhelming. Maybe just think about the things of the day and go from there?

My prayers certainly go out to you, Petra, at this time.

Take care,

John

Hi John,
thanks for replying. My best friend tried ending her life but it was
like a year ago, I talkd her out if it because I knew about it. She
hasn't tried it since then. So this did come as in a surprise in a
way. I didn't know she had this in mind or else I would've talked her
out of it for sure, and she knew that, that's why she didn't talk to
me for coule days before she did it.
What I'm confused about is life basically. And about my future. She
was supposed to be in it, and we had our future all planned out. Yes
they were just dreams, but it had me looking forward to something and
I don't have that anymore. I'm trying to find something that will
keep me going, something to look forward to. People are telling me to
take it one day at a time. That is what I do. But one glare at the
future, and my thoughts just change. I'm just having a lot of mixed
emotions. :(
Petra


--- In Grief_Group@yahoogroups.com, J Hum <jhum07@y...> wrote:
> Hi Petra,
> Thanks for writing.
>
> I'm really sorry to hear about your best friend. What a tragic
situation.
>
> If it's only been two months, no wonder you're feeling depressed
and still hurting so much.
>
> Did you have any idea that was going to happen or did it come as a
surprise to you?
>
> Also, you said you were really confused. What confuses you? It's
such a difficult situation, I would guess you have a lot of
conflicting emotions. I know I did just reading about the details.
>
> John
>
> Petra <petra7841@y...> wrote:
>
> First I would like to say sorry to everyone who lost someone!
> I joined this group because I lost my best friend almost 2 months
> ago. She was my age (15) and she chose to end her life herself. She
> had a tough life. I'm really confused, and it's been 2 months  but
it
> feels like it was just yesterday. I see the memories, the funeral,
> and everything in my head 24/7 and I'm always depressed. :(
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
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>  Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.

First I would like to say sorry to everyone who lost someone!
I joined this group because I lost my best friend almost 2 months
ago. She was my age (15) and she chose to end her life herself. She
had a tough life. I'm really confused, and it's been 2 months  but it
feels like it was just yesterday. I see the memories, the funeral,
and everything in my head 24/7 and I'm always depressed. :(

First I would like to say sorry to everyone who lost someone!
I joined this group because I lost my best friend almost 2 months
ago. She was my age (15) and she chose to end her life herself. She
had a tough life. I'm really confused, and it's been 2 months  but it
feels like it was just yesterday. I see the memories, the funeral,
and everything in my head 24/7 and I'm always depressed. :(

Hi Theresa,

Sorry I've not responded as quickly as I would have liked to.

I didn't lose my grandmother this Christmas. In fact, it's been a
few, but I do miss her still.

We had a special bond. My grandfather didn't treat her great and
after he died, she had a much better life.

I had her on my heart and so I visted her just before she died. I
was living a couple of states away at the time so I had to make a
special trip, but I felt strongly that I needed to. When I got
there, she was concerned about money and who was going to care for
a relative that had been living with her. I had a strong sense
things would work out and told her that.

I talked to her about her faith in God. She said when she was young
that she got very sick and was going to die. An angel appeared to
her and from that time on she had faith--she didn't do things such
as drink, smoke, and some other "vices" she explained to me.

As we were having that talk about faith, she started crying with joy
about hearing that God loved her and cared about her. It was an
incredible time for both of us.

She died Christmas Eve. When she was found Christmas Day, she was
sitting in her chair, with Christmas cards and a pen in her hand,
and she had died smiling.

I've always felt it was a great blessing to have that special time
with grandma just before she died. So I really miss her, but I'm
also encouraged in my faith by that visit I had with her at the end
of her life.

I'm sure you had great talks with your aunt about things that
mattered to you.

John



--- In Grief_Group@yahoogroups.com, treeka2005@a... wrote:
> hello john thank you so much for writing me back. you lost your
grandma just
> before christmas ,iam very sorry to hear that because i know
holidays are hard
> enough  when you lose someone. i am glad that you set up this
site. i do try
> to think my aunt did not suffer and from what i read from you it
sounds like
> your grandmother didn't either. my aunt had a heart attack due to
a blood clot
> so i know there was no suffering but yet some days it still
doesn't help how
> about you? do you do the what if's or if i just would of did this
type of
> thing. my aunt was like my sister because i  am the only child and
she lived withus
> for along time she took care of me since i was a baby  i grew up
with her.
> then she moved home to my gram's and then when i got married and
had kids she
> took care of mine. she was a part of my everyday life  we were
like frick and
> frack. she had a very warm heart. she was so funny i loved when
she cracked
> jokes her and i would get on alaughing kick for like 20 minutes
straight.  my 11
> year old misses her very much she kinda doated on him.please tell
me about your
>
grandmother.
    thank
> you again
>

>                theresa

hello john thank you so much for writing me back. you lost your grandma just before christmas ,iam very sorry to hear that because i know holidays are hard enough  when you lose someone. i am glad that you set up this site. i do try to think my aunt did not suffer and from what i read from you it sounds like your grandmother didn't either. my aunt had a heart attack due to a blood clot so i know there was no suffering but yet some days it still doesn't help how about you? do you do the what if's or if i just would of did this type of thing. my aunt was like my sister because i  am the only child and she lived withus for along time she took care of me since i was a baby  i grew up with her. then she moved home to my gram's and then when i got married and had kids she took care of mine. she was a part of my everyday life  we were like frick and frack. she had a very warm heart. she was so funny i loved when she cracked jokes her and i would get on alaughing kick for like 20 minutes straight.  my 11 year old misses her very much she kinda doated on him.please tell me about your grandmother.                                                            thank you again

                                                                                             theresa

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          hello  i joined because i am not sure what else to do. my aunt who was like my mom and sister in one,passed away this past may2004 four days after my daughter was born. she died unexpectadely at 56. my mom and i were the only ones very close to her. i cant seem to get past the fact that she is gone and not coming back. now my mom  doesn't want to talk about her anymore because she doesn't want to get upset. everyone keeps telling me life goes on i should get over it that it has been 7 months. i can not talk to any one any more they dont want to hear it. what should i do?

 

                                                                                      thankyou

                                                                             please help me

Merry Christmas.

I say that with the reservation that this is not a merry or happy
time for many that have suffered the loss of a loved one during this
season.

My most significant loss during this time of year was my grandmother.
She was found just before Christmas sitting in her chair filling out
Christmas cards. She had a smile on her face. I suppose it's one of
those great endings most of us hope we have when our days are
finished.

I had a wonderful visit with her just before she died. She really
shared from her heart, which wasn't typical for her, and we enjoyed a
significant time together that I'm so glad I got to have with her.