----- Original Message -----

From: Maryann Willis

To: gsowatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:12 PM

Subject: RE: [GSOwatch] Re: wasting ones time

 

I have one more good story to add to others.  An individual began taking AA into the local jail and announced at a meeting he was doing it.  I have done lots of jails and prisons in the past and it appealed to me so I began going.  He got sick and can't continue but I am still there every Sunday.  I have one other that will fill in for me if I can't be there.  Believe me there are enough there that need it and I always tell them I am there to pass on what was so freely given to me and they can take it if they so choose.  Hopefully when some get out I will see them in regular meetings or perhaps take them back into the jail with me.  I really feels good when they always let me go afterwards unlike jails long ago.  I have been richly blessed.
 
I did the service thing for many years and only learned about frustration.  Now I learn about gratitude.
 
Maryann
 

---

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
From: jim_011591@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:38:38 +0000
Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: wasting ones time

 

It is good to feel that I am not alone in my sentiments regarding contemporary AA.

A few of us are in the midst of breaking our group away from the service structure. We will do our service locally like we already are doing by carrying our group's message into the local detoxes four times a month. We won't buy literature from AAWS/GSO. We are already buying Big Books from thrift stores and giving them away. So we won't sell literature. As a group the only services we provide are a meeting where an alcoholic can find other alcoholics that are doing the work and reading the book. At the meeting it will be about sponsorship and nothing else.

I'm rather excited about this. It feels good to be excited about AA again.
Jim

--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, Antara <antaraaaa@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi ya Guys n Gals,
> � 
> I am so happy to say this�  (what John�  wrote) is almost exactly� where I am at with AA these days and I have never been happier.
> The only difference is that I am involved with the prison service, and as a result of that, must deal with a bit of the ego/power mad aspects of the sick service strucuture (remember this is the country where " Big Book Meetings" have been deemed to be banished " outside the service structure, LOL)
> � 
> Life is good and I am so grateful for the wisdom and service you all have so generously� shared with� me. I am nearly 8 years away from a drink now, and happily so,and I do consider you all to have been a great part of this present state I enjoy, as I spent many unhappy years in AA previous to this. The Truth has indeed set me free!
> � 
> I am blessed beyond measure, and feel I owe you a great deal.
> � 
> Cheers,
> � 
> Mary
>
> --- On Sat, 7/25/09, John <deuscaritasest@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: John <deuscaritasest@...>
> Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: wasting ones time
> To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 12:47 AM
>
>
> � 
>
>
>
> Are you saying you are leaving AA altogether ?
>
> I considered this myself at one point a few years ago, after finding out the truth about GSO and AAWS. But I love the "original" untainted AA and what it gave to me 25 years ago. So I have had to find my own "AA" that I can stick with and have faith in.
>
> These days, I don't get involved with the organized service structure at all. I don't seek to be a personality or a power driver at intergroup or region. My service consists of working one to one with the alcoholic who still suffers, sharing at the meetings, and taking on the small mundane tasks necessary for the group to function, like washing up, putting out chairs etc. I only go to small groups who's financial power barely covers the rent, and who simply don't have the funds to support intergroup or GSO. We don't buy coffee or biscuits as a group, individuals volunteer to buy the coffee and biscuits to bring to the meeting and those individuals are not expected to put into the pot. We just cover the rent, that's all. We only have one book available �" the big book - and one pamphlet �" the "where to find meetings" directory.
>
> Since I started doing AA this way, my sobriety is so much more simple and enjoyable. I used to be heavily involved at intergroup and region, and I have to say it did nothing for my spiritual growth other that to awaken me to the sad reality of GSO and AAWS. Which is why I evemtually joined this forum. Thank you for your time.
> Best wishes.
>
> John
>
> --- In GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com, dave smith <soberstar22@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> > � 
> > The total LETHARGY amonst members here in the UK to the great AAWS and GSB" rip-offs" is quite amazing..
> > � Having presented the evidence and truth about these "organisations" operating both in the UK and USA to my home group at a conscience meeting---there was more interest in the cost of the chocolate biscuits (� cookies) � than the fact that AA was being used as a money making "tool"
> > In fact ,after being ignored and � rejected at all levels with this evidence and proof-my answer is to let the goof-balls carry on being "conned" and to leave the "Fellowship " forthwith..
> > � 
> > Its like flogging a dead-horse-- the brainwashing is now over 70 years old and you aint going to change that !!!
> > � 
> > After all, the "trustees" are earning good money here in the UK----like £ 600 a week on average in claims and allowances-- so they are not going to let that change in a hurry !
> > � 
> > Its all very sad,but like anything that involves "megga" money --poor old AA is being fooled by those "Trusted Servants" that we should never trust..
> > � 
> > I wish you well in your endevours--for me --well Iam happy leaving because after 17 years I found out the truth..and no longer put money in the "pot"
> > � 
> > Thats why the buried Bill W facing down--so he could see where he was going !!
> > � 
> > Best Wishes
> > � 
> > Dave S
> > � 
> > � 
> > � 
> > � 
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com <GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com <GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com>
> > Subject: [GSOwatch] New poll for GSOwatch
> > To: GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com
> > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:50 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> > GSOwatch group:
> >
> > <b>Context:< /b><br />
> > As I've surfed around on this list and other sites that are
> > generally negative about the state of AAWS and/or the AA
> > "organization" as a whole, I'm struggling for an appropriate
> > response and where I should put my "passion" for AA. It is
> > still true that AA saved my life, but, I think our much of
> > the Conference and our service structure as it exists today
> > is at cross purposes with the spirit and intent of our
> > spiritual principles.< br />
> > <b>Question: </b>
> > <i>What should we do to get the General Service Conference
> > AAWS board, Grapevine board, General Service board, and
> > GSO (management and staff) more aligned with the spirit and
> > processes indicated by our spiritual principles?< /i>
> >
> > o Write letters and advocate for change using the existing conference process.
> > o Advocate for change (as above) and withhold funds to make a point.
> > o Look toward like minded individuals to start another organization that learns from the mistakes of the current one.
> > o Talk about the problems anywhere we can - being careful not to confuse people about our recovery program vs. the organization.
> > o Pray - only God can fix this mess and this process will either work or it won't.
> > o Give up and advocate <i>against</ i> AA as it exists today.
> > o Do nothing - God is in charge and will fix this in His way and in His time.
> > o Other - none of the above are appropriate responses.
> >
> > To vote, please visit the following web page:
> > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/GSOwatch/ surveys?id= 12922322
> >
> > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> > web site listed above.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>

---

NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here.

----- Original Message -----

From: jim_011591

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 7:38 AM

Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: wasting ones time

 

It is good to feel that I am not alone in my sentiments regarding contemporary AA.

A few of us are in the midst of breaking our group away from the service structure. We will do our service locally like we already are doing by carrying our group's message into the local detoxes four times a month. We won't buy literature from AAWS/GSO. We are already buying Big Books from thrift stores and giving them away. So we won't sell literature. As a group the only services we provide are a meeting where an alcoholic can find other alcoholics that are doing the work and reading the book. At the meeting it will be about sponsorship and nothing else.

I'm rather excited about this. It feels good to be excited about AA again.
Jim

--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, Antara <antaraaaa@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi ya Guys n Gals,
> � 
> I am so happy to say this�  (what John�  wrote) is almost exactly� where I am at with AA these days and I have never been happier.
> The only difference is that I am involved with the prison service, and as a result of that, must deal with a bit of the ego/power mad aspects of the sick service strucuture (remember this is the country where " Big Book Meetings" have been deemed to be banished " outside the service structure, LOL)
> � 
> Life is good and I am so grateful for the wisdom and service you all have so generously� shared with� me. I am nearly 8 years away from a drink now, and happily so,and I do consider you all to have been a great part of this present state I enjoy, as I spent many unhappy years in AA previous to this. The Truth has indeed set me free!
> � 
> I am blessed beyond measure, and feel I owe you a great deal.
> � 
> Cheers,
> � 
> Mary
>
> --- On Sat, 7/25/09, John <deuscaritasest@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: John <deuscaritasest@...>
> Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: wasting ones time
> To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 12:47 AM
>
>
> � 
>
>
>
> Are you saying you are leaving AA altogether ?
>
> I considered this myself at one point a few years ago, after finding out the truth about GSO and AAWS. But I love the "original" untainted AA and what it gave to me 25 years ago. So I have had to find my own "AA" that I can stick with and have faith in.
>
> These days, I don't get involved with the organized service structure at all. I don't seek to be a personality or a power driver at intergroup or region. My service consists of working one to one with the alcoholic who still suffers, sharing at the meetings, and taking on the small mundane tasks necessary for the group to function, like washing up, putting out chairs etc. I only go to small groups who's financial power barely covers the rent, and who simply don't have the funds to support intergroup or GSO. We don't buy coffee or biscuits as a group, individuals volunteer to buy the coffee and biscuits to bring to the meeting and those individuals are not expected to put into the pot. We just cover the rent, that's all. We only have one book available �" the big book - and one pamphlet �" the "where to find meetings" directory.
>
> Since I started doing AA this way, my sobriety is so much more simple and enjoyable. I used to be heavily involved at intergroup and region, and I have to say it did nothing for my spiritual growth other that to awaken me to the sad reality of GSO and AAWS. Which is why I evemtually joined this forum. Thank you for your time.
> Best wishes.
>
> John
>
> --- In GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com, dave smith <soberstar22@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> > � 
> > The total LETHARGY amonst members here in the UK to the great AAWS and GSB" rip-offs" is quite amazing..
> > � Having presented the evidence and truth about these "organisations" operating both in the UK and USA to my home group at a conscience meeting---there was more interest in the cost of the chocolate biscuits (� cookies) � than the fact that AA was being used as a money making "tool"
> > In fact ,after being ignored and � rejected at all levels with this evidence and proof-my answer is to let the goof-balls carry on being "conned" and to leave the "Fellowship " forthwith..
> > � 
> > Its like flogging a dead-horse-- the brainwashing is now over 70 years old and you aint going to change that !!!
> > � 
> > After all, the "trustees" are earning good money here in the UK----like £ 600 a week on average in claims and allowances-- so they are not going to let that change in a hurry !
> > � 
> > Its all very sad,but like anything that involves "megga" money --poor old AA is being fooled by those "Trusted Servants" that we should never trust..
> > � 
> > I wish you well in your endevours--for me --well Iam happy leaving because after 17 years I found out the truth..and no longer put money in the "pot"
> > � 
> > Thats why the buried Bill W facing down--so he could see where he was going !!
> > � 
> > Best Wishes
> > � 
> > Dave S
> > � 
> > � 
> > � 
> > � 
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com <GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com <GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com>
> > Subject: [GSOwatch] New poll for GSOwatch
> > To: GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com
> > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:50 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> > GSOwatch group:
> >
> > <b>Context:< /b><br />
> > As I've surfed around on this list and other sites that are
> > generally negative about the state of AAWS and/or the AA
> > "organization" as a whole, I'm struggling for an appropriate
> > response and where I should put my "passion" for AA. It is
> > still true that AA saved my life, but, I think our much of
> > the Conference and our service structure as it exists today
> > is at cross purposes with the spirit and intent of our
> > spiritual principles.< br />
> > <b>Question: </b>
> > <i>What should we do to get the General Service Conference
> > AAWS board, Grapevine board, General Service board, and
> > GSO (management and staff) more aligned with the spirit and
> > processes indicated by our spiritual principles?< /i>
> >
> > o Write letters and advocate for change using the existing conference process.
> > o Advocate for change (as above) and withhold funds to make a point.
> > o Look toward like minded individuals to start another organization that learns from the mistakes of the current one.
> > o Talk about the problems anywhere we can - being careful not to confuse people about our recovery program vs. the organization.
> > o Pray - only God can fix this mess and this process will either work or it won't.
> > o Give up and advocate <i>against</ i> AA as it exists today.
> > o Do nothing - God is in charge and will fix this in His way and in His time.
> > o Other - none of the above are appropriate responses.
> >
> > To vote, please visit the following web page:
> > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/GSOwatch/ surveys?id= 12922322
> >
> > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> > web site listed above.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>

It is good to feel that I am not alone in my sentiments regarding contemporary
AA.

A few of us are in the midst of breaking our group away from the service
structure. We will do our service locally like we already are doing by carrying
our group's message into the local detoxes four times a month. We won't buy
literature from AAWS/GSO. We are already buying Big Books from thrift stores and
giving them away. So we won't sell literature. As a group the only services we
provide are a meeting where an alcoholic can find other alcoholics that are
doing the work and reading the book. At the meeting it will be about sponsorship
and nothing else.

I'm rather excited about this. It feels good to be excited about AA again.
Jim


--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, Antara <antaraaaa@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi ya Guys n Gals,
>  
> I am so happy to say this  (what John  wrote) is almost exactly where I am
at with AA these days and I have never been happier.
> The only difference is that I am involved with the prison service, and as a
result of that, must deal with a bit of the ego/power mad aspects of the sick
service strucuture (remember this is the country where " Big Book Meetings" have
been deemed to be banished " outside the service structure, LOL)
>  
> Life is good and I am so grateful for the wisdom and service you all have so
generously shared with me. I am nearly 8 years away from a drink now, and
happily so,and I do consider you all to have been a great part of this present
state I enjoy, as I spent many unhappy years in AA previous to this. The Truth
has indeed set me free!
>  
> I am blessed beyond measure, and feel I owe you a great deal.
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Mary
>
> --- On Sat, 7/25/09, John <deuscaritasest@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: John <deuscaritasest@...>
> Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: wasting ones time
> To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 12:47 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Are you saying you are leaving AA altogether ?
>
> I considered this myself at one point a few years ago, after finding out the
truth about GSO and AAWS. But I love the "original" untainted AA and what it
gave to me 25 years ago. So I have had to find my own "AA" that I can stick with
and have faith in.
>
> These days, I don't get involved with the organized service structure at all.
I don't seek to be a personality or a power driver at intergroup or region. My
service consists of working one to one with the alcoholic who still suffers,
sharing at the meetings, and taking on the small mundane tasks necessary for the
group to function, like washing up, putting out chairs etc. I only go to small
groups who's financial power barely covers the rent, and who simply don't have
the funds to support intergroup or GSO. We don't buy coffee or biscuits as a
group, individuals volunteer to buy the coffee and biscuits to bring to the
meeting and those individuals are not expected to put into the pot. We just
cover the rent, that's all. We only have one book available �" the big book -
and one pamphlet �" the "where to find meetings" directory.
>
> Since I started doing AA this way, my sobriety is so much more simple and
enjoyable. I used to be heavily involved at intergroup and region, and I have to
say it did nothing for my spiritual growth other that to awaken me to the sad
reality of GSO and AAWS. Which is why I evemtually joined this forum. Thank you
for your time.
> Best wishes.
>
> John
>
> --- In GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com, dave smith <soberstar22@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >  
> > The total LETHARGY amonst members here in the UK to the great AAWS and GSB"
rip-offs" is quite amazing..
> >  Having presented the evidence and truth about these "organisations"
operating both in the UK and USA to my home group at a conscience
meeting---there was more interest in the cost of the chocolate biscuits
( cookies)  than the fact that AA was being used as a money making "tool"
> > In fact ,after being ignored and  rejected at all levels with this evidence
and proof-my answer is to let the goof-balls carry on being "conned" and to
leave the "Fellowship " forthwith..
> >  
> > Its like flogging a dead-horse-- the brainwashing is now over 70 years old
and you aint going to change that !!!
> >  
> > After all, the "trustees" are earning good money here in the UK----like £
600 a week on average in claims and allowances-- so they are not going to let
that change in a hurry !
> >  
> > Its all very sad,but like anything that involves "megga" money --poor old AA
is being fooled by those "Trusted Servants" that we should never trust..
> >  
> > I wish you well in your endevours--for me --well Iam happy leaving because
after 17 years I found out the truth..and no longer put money in the "pot"
> >  
> > Thats why the buried Bill W facing down--so he could see where he was going
!!
> >  
> > Best Wishes
> >  
> > Dave S
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com <GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com>
wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com <GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com>
> > Subject: [GSOwatch] New poll for GSOwatch
> > To: GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com
> > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:50 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> > GSOwatch group:
> >
> > <b>Context:< /b><br />
> > As I've surfed around on this list and other sites that are
> > generally negative about the state of AAWS and/or the AA
> > "organization" as a whole, I'm struggling for an appropriate
> > response and where I should put my "passion" for AA. It is
> > still true that AA saved my life, but, I think our much of
> > the Conference and our service structure as it exists today
> > is at cross purposes with the spirit and intent of our
> > spiritual principles.< br />
> > <b>Question: </b>
> > <i>What should we do to get the General Service Conference
> > AAWS board, Grapevine board, General Service board, and
> > GSO (management and staff) more aligned with the spirit and
> > processes indicated by our spiritual principles?< /i>
> >
> > o Write letters and advocate for change using the existing conference
process.
> > o Advocate for change (as above) and withhold funds to make a point.
> > o Look toward like minded individuals to start another organization that
learns from the mistakes of the current one.
> > o Talk about the problems anywhere we can - being careful not to confuse
people about our recovery program vs. the organization.
> > o Pray - only God can fix this mess and this process will either work or it
won't.
> > o Give up and advocate <i>against</ i> AA as it exists today.
> > o Do nothing - God is in charge and will fix this in His way and in His
time.
> > o Other - none of the above are appropriate responses.
> >
> > To vote, please visit the following web page:
> > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/GSOwatch/ surveys?id= 12922322
> >
> > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> > web site listed above.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>

Hi Dave

I agree with Dennis.  I had the same experience down here in Cornwall, UK.  A
few of us started a meeting where we study the Big Book.  As John said, my AA is
so much simpler and more enjoyable these days.

ATB

Rob



--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, dave smith <soberstar22@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
> �
> The total LETHARGY amonst members here in the UK to the great AAWS and GSB"
rip-offs" is quite amazing..
> �Having presented the evidence and truth about these "organisations" operating
both in the UK and USA to my home group at a conscience meeting---there was more
interest in the cost of the chocolate biscuits (�cookies) �than the fact that AA
was being used as a money making "tool"
> In fact ,after being ignored and �rejected at all levels with this evidence
and proof-my answer is to let the goof-balls carry on being "conned" and to
leave the "Fellowship " forthwith..
> �
> Its like flogging a dead-horse--the brainwashing is now over 70 years old and
you aint going to change that !!!
> �
> After all, the "trustees" are earning good money here in the UK----like � 600
a week on average in claims and allowances--so they are not going to let that
change in a hurry !
> �
> Its all very sad,but like anything that involves "megga" money --poor old AA
is being fooled by those "Trusted Servants" that we should never trust..
> �
> I wish you well in your endevours--for me --well Iam happy leaving because
after 17 years I found out the truth..and no longer put money in the "pot"
> �
> Thats why the buried Bill W facing down--so he could see where he was going !!
> �
> Best Wishes
> �
> Dave S
> �
> �
> �
> �
>
>
> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com <GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com <GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [GSOwatch] New poll for GSOwatch
> To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:50 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> GSOwatch group:
>
> <b>Context:< /b><br />
> As I've surfed around on this list and other sites that are
> generally negative about the state of AAWS and/or the AA
> "organization" as a whole, I'm struggling for an appropriate
> response and where I should put my "passion" for AA. It is
> still true that AA saved my life, but, I think our much of
> the Conference and our service structure as it exists today
> is at cross purposes with the spirit and intent of our
> spiritual principles.< br />
> <b>Question: </b>
> <i>What should we do to get the General Service Conference
> AAWS board, Grapevine board, General Service board, and
> GSO (management and staff) more aligned with the spirit and
> processes indicated by our spiritual principles?< /i>
>
> o Write letters and advocate for change using the existing conference process.
> o Advocate for change (as above) and withhold funds to make a point.
> o Look toward like minded individuals to start another organization that
learns from the mistakes of the current one.
> o Talk about the problems anywhere we can - being careful not to confuse
people about our recovery program vs. the organization.
> o Pray - only God can fix this mess and this process will either work or it
won't.
> o Give up and advocate <i>against</ i> AA as it exists today.
> o Do nothing - God is in charge and will fix this in His way and in His time.
> o Other - none of the above are appropriate responses.
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/GSOwatch/ surveys?id= 12922322
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!
>

----- Original Message -----

From: John

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 3:47 PM

Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: wasting ones time

 

Are you saying you are leaving AA altogether ?

I considered this myself at one point a few years ago, after finding out the truth about GSO and AAWS. But I love the "original" untainted AA and what it gave to me 25 years ago. So I have had to find my own "AA" that I can stick with and have faith in.

These days, I don't get involved with the organized service structure at all. I don't seek to be a personality or a power driver at intergroup or region. My service consists of working one to one with the alcoholic who still suffers, sharing at the meetings, and taking on the small mundane tasks necessary for the group to function, like washing up, putting out chairs etc. I only go to small groups who's financial power barely covers the rent, and who simply don't have the funds to support intergroup or GSO. We don't buy coffee or biscuits as a group, individuals volunteer to buy the coffee and biscuits to bring to the meeting and those individuals are not expected to put into the pot. We just cover the rent, that's all. We only have one book available � the big book - and one pamphlet � the "where to find meetings" directory.

Since I started doing AA this way, my sobriety is so much more simple and enjoyable. I used to be heavily involved at intergroup and region, and I have to say it did nothing for my spiritual growth other that to awaken me to the sad reality of GSO and AAWS. Which is why I evemtually joined this forum. Thank you for your time.
Best wishes.

John

--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, dave smith <soberstar22@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>  
> The total LETHARGY amonst members here in the UK to the great AAWS and GSB" rip-offs" is quite amazing..
>  Having presented the evidence and truth about these "organisations" operating both in the UK and USA to my home group at a conscience meeting---there was more interest in the cost of the chocolate biscuits ( cookies)  than the fact that AA was being used as a money making "tool"
> In fact ,after being ignored and  rejected at all levels with this evidence and proof-my answer is to let the goof-balls carry on being "conned" and to leave the "Fellowship " forthwith..
>  
> Its like flogging a dead-horse--the brainwashing is now over 70 years old and you aint going to change that !!!
>  
> After all, the "trustees" are earning good money here in the UK----like � 600 a week on average in claims and allowances--so they are not going to let that change in a hurry !
>  
> Its all very sad,but like anything that involves "megga" money --poor old AA is being fooled by those "Trusted Servants" that we should never trust..
>  
> I wish you well in your endevours--for me --well Iam happy leaving because after 17 years I found out the truth..and no longer put money in the "pot"
>  
> Thats why the buried Bill W facing down--so he could see where he was going !!
>  
> Best Wishes
>  
> Dave S
>  
>  
>  
>  
>
>
> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com <GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com <GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [GSOwatch] New poll for GSOwatch
> To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:50 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> GSOwatch group:
>
> <b>Context:< /b><br />
> As I've surfed around on this list and other sites that are
> generally negative about the state of AAWS and/or the AA
> "organization" as a whole, I'm struggling for an appropriate
> response and where I should put my "passion" for AA. It is
> still true that AA saved my life, but, I think our much of
> the Conference and our service structure as it exists today
> is at cross purposes with the spirit and intent of our
> spiritual principles.< br />
> <b>Question: </b>
> <i>What should we do to get the General Service Conference
> AAWS board, Grapevine board, General Service board, and
> GSO (management and staff) more aligned with the spirit and
> processes indicated by our spiritual principles?< /i>
>
> o Write letters and advocate for change using the existing conference process.
> o Advocate for change (as above) and withhold funds to make a point.
> o Look toward like minded individuals to start another organization that learns from the mistakes of the current one.
> o Talk about the problems anywhere we can - being careful not to confuse people about our recovery program vs. the organization.
> o Pray - only God can fix this mess and this process will either work or it won't.
> o Give up and advocate <i>against</ i> AA as it exists today.
> o Do nothing - God is in charge and will fix this in His way and in His time.
> o Other - none of the above are appropriate responses.
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/GSOwatch/ surveys?id= 12922322
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!
>

Are you saying you are leaving AA altogether ?

I considered this myself at one point a few years ago, after finding out the
truth about GSO and AAWS. But I love the "original" untainted AA and what it
gave to me 25 years ago. So I have had to find my own "AA" that I can stick with
and have faith in.

These days, I don't get involved with the organized service structure at all. I
don't seek to be a personality or a power driver at intergroup or region. My
service consists of working one to one with the alcoholic who still suffers,
sharing at the meetings, and taking on the small mundane tasks necessary for the
group to function, like washing up, putting out chairs etc. I only go to small
groups who's financial power barely covers the rent, and who simply don't have
the funds to support intergroup or GSO. We don't buy coffee or biscuits as a
group, individuals volunteer to buy the coffee and biscuits to bring to the
meeting and those individuals are not expected to put into the pot.  We just
cover the rent, that's all.  We only have one book available � the big book -
and one pamphlet � the "where to find meetings" directory.

Since I started doing AA this way, my sobriety is so much more simple and
enjoyable. I used to be heavily involved at intergroup and region, and I have to
say it did nothing for my spiritual growth other that to awaken me to the sad
reality of GSO and AAWS. Which is why I evemtually joined this forum. Thank you
for your time.
Best wishes.

John





--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, dave smith <soberstar22@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
> �
> The total LETHARGY amonst members here in the UK to the great AAWS and GSB"
rip-offs" is quite amazing..
> �Having presented the evidence and truth about these "organisations" operating
both in the UK and USA to my home group at a conscience meeting---there was more
interest in the cost of the chocolate biscuits (�cookies) �than the fact that AA
was being used as a money making "tool"
> In fact ,after being ignored and �rejected at all levels with this evidence
and proof-my answer is to let the goof-balls carry on being "conned" and to
leave the "Fellowship " forthwith..
> �
> Its like flogging a dead-horse--the brainwashing is now over 70 years old and
you aint going to change that !!!
> �
> After all, the "trustees" are earning good money here in the UK----like � 600
a week on average in claims and allowances--so they are not going to let that
change in a hurry !
> �
> Its all very sad,but like anything that involves "megga" money --poor old AA
is being fooled by those "Trusted Servants" that we should never trust..
> �
> I wish you well in your endevours--for me --well Iam happy leaving because
after 17 years I found out the truth..and no longer put money in the "pot"
> �
> Thats why the buried Bill W facing down--so he could see where he was going !!
> �
> Best Wishes
> �
> Dave S
> �
> �
> �
> �
>
>
> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com <GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com <GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [GSOwatch] New poll for GSOwatch
> To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:50 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> GSOwatch group:
>
> <b>Context:< /b><br />
> As I've surfed around on this list and other sites that are
> generally negative about the state of AAWS and/or the AA
> "organization" as a whole, I'm struggling for an appropriate
> response and where I should put my "passion" for AA. It is
> still true that AA saved my life, but, I think our much of
> the Conference and our service structure as it exists today
> is at cross purposes with the spirit and intent of our
> spiritual principles.< br />
> <b>Question: </b>
> <i>What should we do to get the General Service Conference
> AAWS board, Grapevine board, General Service board, and
> GSO (management and staff) more aligned with the spirit and
> processes indicated by our spiritual principles?< /i>
>
> o Write letters and advocate for change using the existing conference process.
> o Advocate for change (as above) and withhold funds to make a point.
> o Look toward like minded individuals to start another organization that
learns from the mistakes of the current one.
> o Talk about the problems anywhere we can - being careful not to confuse
people about our recovery program vs. the organization.
> o Pray - only God can fix this mess and this process will either work or it
won't.
> o Give up and advocate <i>against</ i> AA as it exists today.
> o Do nothing - God is in charge and will fix this in His way and in His time.
> o Other - none of the above are appropriate responses.
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/GSOwatch/ surveys?id= 12922322
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!
>

Hi Group,
  There was an item in this months delegate report that GSO will soon have an
option available to contribute to GSO by credit card on the GSO website. Has any
one got anymore info on this?
  I keep going back and forth with wondering if this is a good idea or not. On
the one hand, GSO will probably see contributions go up. This would be a good
thing and a step in the right direction to becoming fully self supporting and
not relying on literature sales. Then again, this might also open the door for
members (and others) to actually purchase literature directly from the website .
This could have the effect of really blurring the lines of where the money is
coming from, (i.e. outside sources) and how to differentiate a contribution from
a member, and lit.sales, if it all goes into the same pot at AAWS. It seems that
AAWS will have to be the corporation that sets up the contribution thingy since
GSO isn't anything legally known under the law and exists only in our heads. If
the line between contributions and lit. sales gets too cumbersome , lit. sales
will in effect become the same thing as contributions.

Greg

Message Alert - You Have 1 Important Unread Message!
http://adoniasp.zoomshare.com/files/sexygirl.htm

Context:

As I've surfed around on this list and other sites that are generally negative about the state of AAWS and/or the AA "organization" as a whole, I'm struggling for an appropriate response and where I should put my "passion" for AA.

It is still true that AA saved my life, but, I think much of our Conference and our service structure, as it exists today, is at cross purposes with the spirit and intent of our spiritual principles.

Action:

As I'm a relatively new participant in this forum, I thought it might be cool to find out what others are thinking about.  I know I still have to make up my own mind (I will, over time - probably years - and change often along the way) but I find myself way conflicted as to how much and how severe my actions should be. 

The poll is at: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/GSOwatch/surveys?id=12922322 .

Unfortunately, as this was my 1st poll on Y!, the introductory email included formatting which was not appropriate - it was a mess....

If there is a better way to get and share this sort of perspective and opinion, I hope you all will guide me.

Many thanx,

Ed

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
GSOwatch group:

<b>Context:</b><br />
As I've surfed around on this list and other sites that are
generally negative about the state of AAWS and/or the AA
"organization" as a whole, I'm struggling for an appropriate
response and where I should put my "passion" for AA.  It is
still true that AA saved my life, but, I think our much of
the Conference and our service structure as it exists today
is at cross purposes with the spirit and intent of our
spiritual principles.<br />
<b>Question:</b>
<i>What should we do to get the General Service Conference
AAWS board, Grapevine board, General Service board, and
GSO (management and staff) more aligned with the spirit and
processes indicated by our spiritual principles?</i>

   o Write letters and advocate for change using the existing conference process.
   o Advocate for change (as above) and withhold funds to make a point.
   o Look toward like minded individuals to start another organization that
learns from the mistakes of the current one.
   o Talk about the problems anywhere we can -  being careful not to confuse
people about our recovery program vs. the organization.
   o Pray - only God can fix this mess and this process will either work or it
won't.
   o Give up and advocate <i>against</i> AA as it exists today.
   o Do nothing - God is in charge and will fix this in His way and in His time.
   o Other - none of the above are appropriate responses.


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSOwatch/surveys?id=12922322

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Now add the "other than AA" versions of the BB and the numbers really get grim.


--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Lawyer" <ejlawyer@...> wrote:
>
> Dennis, Greg, and group,
>
>
>
> In Seattle at the 1990 International Convention I believe they gave Neil
> Wing (?) the 10 millionth copy of the book, Alcoholics Anonymous.
> So that means between 1975 and 1990 AA sold 9 million copies. Now between
> 1990 and 2005 they sold 25 million and our membership is still (?) below 2
> million.
>
> Doesn't bode to well for Alcoholics Anonymous that it has shown no growth,
> (actually it has declined) in quite a few years now.
>
>
>
>               Jay
>
>
>
> Hi Greg;
>
>
>
> The peace below about book sales was sent to me by a friend some years ago
> which you might find interesting. It is pretty close to your statement. The
> main difference is AA claimed the 1 millionth book was sold in 1975.
>
>
>
> -------------------
>
>
>
> The following analysis might be of interest to you:
>
>
>
> AA has recently announced that the 20 millionth copy of the Big Book
> has been sold. They noted that the one million book mark was reached
> in 1975.
>
>
>
> In 1975 AA claimed 750,000 members, which is remarkably close to the
> number of sales (in fact, this coincidence leads me to the
> hypothesis that Bill Wilson used the tally of Big Book sales to
> estimate AA membership).
>
>
>
> But look at what has happened in the last 25 years. AA has sold an
> additional 19 million books, but its worldwide membership has
> stalled at slightly under 2 million.
>
>
>
> While in 1975, there was 1. 25 Big Books per AA member, today there
> are 10 Big Books per AA member.
>
>
>
> From a slightly different angle, it is instructive to compare the
> growth of AA membership to the sale of Big Books over the last 25
> years. For that period, it took the sale of 16 Big Books to get one
> additional member for AA.
>
>
>
> (The figures for the last decade would no doubt be even worse. AA
> doubled its membership from 1975-1988 --750,000 to 1.6 million-- and
> has had slow or stagnant membership growth since 1988.)
>
>
>
> ----------------------
>
>
>
> Peace,
>
>
>
> Dennis M.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Greg <mailto:Greg@...>
>
> To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:32 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>
>
>
>
> Hi Dennis and Bill,
>
>  By 1976 there were 1,450,000 copies of the 1st two editions of the big book
> sold. We can compare that to the approximate membership of between 750,000
> and 1,000,000 people at that time.
>
>  Fast forward to 2005. Approximately 2 million members then but total big
> book sales are 25 million copies sold.
>
> Any thoughts?
> Greg
>
> --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Dennis <gratefuldennis@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Dennis <gratefuldennis@...>
> Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
> To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:34 PM
>
> Hi Bill;
>
>
>
> I don't know if this is what you were refering to but I will re-post it for
> those who may not have seen it. The figures come from our NY Headquarters
> and were published in the forwords of the Big Books.
>
>
>
> AA growth rate:
>
>
>
> In Box 459 from Oct./Nov. 2001, is the big sell issue for the New Forth
> Edition. In attempting to sell the point that all is well on the 'carrying
> the message' frontline the New York Headquarters justify the need for the
> new edition by letting us know how much we have grown since the Third
> Edition. They claim we have grown from 440,000 in the US/Canada AA to over 2
> million worldwide. Why are they using the US/Canada figures and comparing it
> to the world figures when the world figures are in the Third Edition as 1
> million? Maybe they haven't read the Third Edition forward? (Note: They have
> since changed I think, not sure though because I don't have a 4th Edition.)
>
>
>
> Maybe they did the comparison that way because our growth rate in the
> US/Canada Section has been stagnate over the last decade and has actually
> decreased these past few years, even admittedly by the Conference reports.
> Since some places like Russia and Mexico has seen large increases maybe the
> creators of this spin just wanted to capitalize on the success of others,
> although both translations of the book, Russian and Spanish, have been the
> subject of litigations.
>
>
>
> Well now that the Forth Edition is out I can once again practice my high
> school math to see how well we are really doing. Here it is folks:
>
>
>
> In 1939 we had 100 sober members.
>
>
>
> In 1955 - 150,000
>
>
>
> In 1976 - 1,000,000 (Note: GSO has claimed 750,000 members in 1975 but
> 1,000,000 in the Big Book which would be an even worse growth rate)
>
>
>
> In 2001 - 2,000,000 (Note: Just under)
>
>
>
> From 1939 - 1955 was 16 Years and we grew at a ratio of 1 to 1,500 or our
> growth rate was 1 to 93.7 per year or a percentage of 9,370% a year.
>
>
>
> From 1955 to 1976 a period of 21 years that dropped dramatically to 1 to
> 66.6 or 1 to 3.1 per year for a percentage of 310% per yr.
>
>
>
> From 1976 to 2001 a period of 25 years it fell like the 1929 stock market to
> a ratio of only 1 to 2 or 1 to .08 per year and our growth rate dwindled to
> 8% a year.
>
>
>
> If you take into consideration that the world population has doubled since
> 1960 to 1999 so the number of potential members has also doubled it don't
> look so good for our future. It has been estimated that around 10% of the
> population are alcoholics. If we lower that to 5% we still get 300 million
> alcoholics in the world and actually 14,289,700 just in the USA. Every year
> we get 3.5 million new drunks to work with in the world.
>
>
>
> Now if you also take into consideration that the early members didn't have
> half their members referred from treatment centers, and they also had the
> social stigma about alcoholism, and didn't have drunks on television, and
> didn't have the massive corporate literature distribution like from
> Hazelden, and masses of therapist, psychologist, and judges sending folks to
> AA then our growth rate actually sucks. To look at it in a more dismal way,
> every drunk that was sober in AA in 1976 only carried the message to one
> other drunk in twenty-five years. "Don't see anything the matter here, Ma.
> Ain't it grand the wind stopped blowin'?"
>
>
>
> Peace,
>
>
>
> Dennis M.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: bbfreeaa
>
> To: GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com
>
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:06 AM
>
> Subject: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>
>
>
> I'm trying to find paper I've seen many times here showing AA's growth
> history, especially noting that is has seen no growth for the past 15-20
> years after years of phenomenal growth. Can someone send that to me or post
> it here. Thanks
>
> B
>

Sorry for the late reply.  Thanks Dennis for your input.

B

--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis" <gratefuldennis@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bill;
>
> I don't know if this is what you were refering to but I will re-post it for
> those who may not have seen it. The figures come from our NY Headquarters
> and were published in the forwords of the Big Books.
>
> AA growth rate:
>
> In Box 459 from Oct./Nov. 2001, is the big sell issue for the New Forth
> Edition. In attempting to sell the point that all is well on the 'carrying
> the message' frontline the New York Headquarters justify the need for the
> new edition by letting us know how much we have grown since the Third
> Edition. They claim we have grown from 440,000 in the US/Canada AA to over 2
> million worldwide. Why are they using the US/Canada figures and comparing it
> to the world figures when the world figures are in the Third Edition as 1
> million? Maybe they haven't read the Third Edition forward? (Note: They have
> since changed I think, not sure though because I don't have a 4th Edition.)
>
> Maybe they did the comparison that way because our growth rate in the
> US/Canada Section has been stagnate over the last decade and has actually
> decreased these past few years, even admittedly by the Conference reports.
> Since some places like Russia and Mexico has seen large increases maybe the
> creators of this spin just wanted to capitalize on the success of others,
> although both translations of the book, Russian and Spanish, have been the
> subject of litigations.
>
> Well now that the Forth Edition is out I can once again practice my high
> school math to see how well we are really doing. Here it is folks:
>
> In 1939 we had 100 sober members.
>
> In 1955 - 150,000
>
> In 1976 - 1,000,000 (Note: GSO has claimed 750,000 members in 1975 but
> 1,000,000 in the Big Book which would be an even worse growth rate)
>
> In 2001 - 2,000,000 (Note: Just under)
>
> From 1939 - 1955 was 16 Years and we grew at a ratio of 1 to 1,500 or our
> growth rate was 1 to 93.7 per year or a percentage of 9,370% a year.
>
> From 1955 to 1976 a period of 21 years that dropped dramatically to 1 to
> 66.6 or 1 to 3.1 per year for a percentage of 310% per yr.
>
> From 1976 to 2001 a period of 25 years it fell like the 1929 stock market to
> a ratio of only 1 to 2 or 1 to .08 per year and our growth rate dwindled to
> 8% a year.
>
> If you take into consideration that the world population has doubled since
> 1960 to 1999 so the number of potential members has also doubled it don't
> look so good for our future. It has been estimated that around 10% of the
> population are alcoholics. If we lower that to 5% we still get 300 million
> alcoholics in the world and actually 14,289,700 just in the USA. Every year
> we get 3.5 million new drunks to work with in the world.
>
> Now if you also take into consideration that the early members didn't have
> half their members referred from treatment centers, and they also had the
> social stigma about alcoholism, and didn't have drunks on television, and
> didn't have the massive corporate literature distribution like from
> Hazelden, and masses of therapist, psychologist, and judges sending folks to
> AA then our growth rate actually sucks. To look at it in a more dismal way,
> every drunk that was sober in AA in 1976 only carried the message to one
> other drunk in twenty-five years. "Don't see anything the matter here, Ma.
> Ain't it grand the wind stopped blowin'?"
>
> Peace,
>
> Dennis M.
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: bbfreeaa
>   To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:06 AM
>   Subject: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>
>
>
>
>
>   I'm trying to find paper I've seen many times here showing AA's growth
> history, especially noting that is has seen no growth for the past 15-20
> years after years of phenomenal growth. Can someone send that to me or post
> it here. Thanks
>
>   B
>

Hi Greg,
Unfortunately it is just a dream. The more money they need, the more the need
for litigation and punitive action. The two go hand in hand.
Jim


--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, Greg <Greg@...> wrote:
>
> Over Heard in a dream: "So what if we sell boxcar loads of literature to
Hazelden, at least we won't sue anybody ever again."
>
> Greg
>
> --- On Mon, 6/29/09, jim_011591 <jim_011591@...> wrote:
>
> From: jim_011591 <jim_011591@...>
> Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: AA Growth History
> To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 8:55 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       Both at our pre-conference and at our delegate's report I heard this
justification for selling literature to outside agencies:
>
>
>
> "So what if we sell boxcar loads of Big Books to Hazelden and other
facilities. They still end up in the hands of alcoholics."
>
>
>
> --- In GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com, "Dennis" <gratefuldennis@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Good point Maryann. That may also explain why the majority of literature
>
> > sales is from outside the fellowship. It is a paradox that the publisher
>
> > using the AA name sells mostly outside the fellowship and the outside
>
> > publisher (Anonymous Press) doesn't like to sell outside the fellowship at
>
> > all.
>
> >
>
> > Peace,
>
> >
>
> > Dennis M.
>
> >
>
> >   ----- Original Message -----
>
> >   From: Maryann Willis
>
> >   To: gsowatch@yahoogroup s.com
>
> >   Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:47 AM
>
> >   Subject: RE: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >   A Big Book is sold or given as part of the cost to each individual who
>
> > shows up at a treatment center.  Many go back over and over and receive a
>
> > book every time.  I know one who had gone 21 times and was considering going
>
> > again.  That probably is only one explaination.
>
> >
>
> >   Maryann
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
> >   To: GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com
>
> >   From: Greg@
>
> >   Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:32:20 -0700
>
> >   Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >         Hi Dennis and Bill,
>
> >
>
> >          By 1976 there were 1,450,000 copies of the 1st two editions of the
>
> > big book sold. We can compare that to the approximate membership of between
>
> > 750,000 and 1,000,000 people at that time.
>
> >
>
> >          Fast forward to 2005. Approximately 2 million members then but
>
> > total big book sales are 25 million copies sold.
>
> >
>
> >         Any thoughts?
>
> >         Greg
>
> >
>
> >         --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Dennis <gratefuldennis@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >           From: Dennis <gratefuldennis@ ...>
>
> >           Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>
> >           To: GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com
>
> >           Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:34 PM
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >           Hi Bill;
>
> >
>
> >           I don't know if this is what you were refering to but I will
>
> > re-post it for those who may not have seen it. The figures come from our NY
>
> > Headquarters and were published in the forwords of the Big Books.
>
> >
>
> >           AA growth rate:
>
> >
>
> >           In Box 459 from Oct./Nov. 2001, is the big sell issue for the New
>
> > Forth Edition. In attempting to sell the point that all is well on the
>
> > `carrying the message' frontline the New York Headquarters justify the need
>
> > for the new edition by letting us know how much we have grown since the
>
> > Third Edition. They claim we have grown from 440,000 in the US/Canada AA to
>
> > over 2 million worldwide. Why are they using the US/Canada figures and
>
> > comparing it to the world figures when the world figures are in the Third
>
> > Edition as 1 million? Maybe they haven't read the Third Edition forward?
>
> > (Note: They have since changed I think, not sure though because I don't have
>
> > a 4th Edition.)
>
> >
>
> >           Maybe they did the comparison that way because our growth rate in
>
> > the US/Canada Section has been stagnate over the last decade and has
>
> > actually decreased these past few years, even admittedly by the Conference
>
> > reports. Since some places like Russia and Mexico has seen large increases
>
> > maybe the creators of this spin just wanted to capitalize on the success of
>
> > others, although both translations of the book, Russian and Spanish, have
>
> > been the subject of litigations.
>
> >
>
> >           Well now that the Forth Edition is out I can once again practice
>
> > my high school math to see how well we are really doing. Here it is folks:
>
> >
>
> >           In 1939 we had 100 sober members.
>
> >
>
> >           In 1955 �" 150,000
>
> >
>
> >           In 1976 �" 1,000,000 (Note: GSO has claimed 750,000 members in
1975
>
> > but 1,000,000 in the Big Book which would be an even worse growth rate)
>
> >
>
> >           In 2001 �" 2,000,000 (Note: Just under)
>
> >
>
> >           From 1939 �" 1955 was 16 Years and we grew at a ratio of 1 to
1,500
>
> > or our growth rate was 1 to 93.7 per year or a percentage of 9,370% a year.
>
> >
>
> >           From 1955 to 1976 a period of 21 years that dropped dramatically
>
> > to 1 to 66.6 or 1 to 3.1 per year for a percentage of 310% per yr.
>
> >
>
> >           From 1976 to 2001 a period of 25 years it fell like the 1929 stock
>
> > market to a ratio of only 1 to 2 or 1 to .08 per year and our growth rate
>
> > dwindled to 8% a year.
>
> >
>
> >           If you take into consideration that the world population has
>
> > doubled since 1960 to 1999 so the number of potential members has also
>
> > doubled it don't look so good for our future. It has been estimated that
>
> > around 10% of the population are alcoholics. If we lower that to 5% we still
>
> > get 300 million alcoholics in the world and actually 14,289,700 just in the
>
> > USA. Every year we get 3.5 million new drunks to work with in the world.
>
> >
>
> >           Now if you also take into consideration that the early members
>
> > didn't have half their members referred from treatment centers, and they
>
> > also had the social stigma about alcoholism, and didn't have drunks on
>
> > television, and didn't have the massive corporate literature distribution
>
> > like from Hazelden, and masses of therapist, psychologist, and judges
>
> > sending folks to AA then our growth rate actually sucks. To look at it in a
>
> > more dismal way, every drunk that was sober in AA in 1976 only carried the
>
> > message to one other drunk in twenty-five years. "Don't see anything the
>
> > matter here, Ma. Ain't it grand the wind stopped blowin'?"
>
> >
>
> >           Peace,
>
> >
>
> >           Dennis M.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >             ----- Original Message -----
>
> >             From: bbfreeaa
>
> >             To: GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com
>
> >             Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:06 AM
>
> >             Subject: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >             I'm trying to find paper I've seen many times here showing AA's
>
> > growth history, especially noting that is has seen no growth for the past
>
> > 15-20 years after years of phenomenal growth. Can someone send that to me or
>
> > post it here. Thanks
>
> >
>
> >             B
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
> >   Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that's right for you.
>
> >
>

I don't think so Dennis. Like I said in a previous post, GSO doesn't care about
how many the message actually gets carried to. Their concern is the bottom line,
how many units get moved. Then they send the delegates back to pander for money.
Service lemmings. Sheep who never question anything and blindly worship the
sacred cow. Maybe not all the delegates are that way, but the majority of the
ones from our area have been.


--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis" <gratefuldennis@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim;
>
> > They still end up in the hands of alcoholics. <
>
> That is a great line. I wonder if they would even consider that same
> philosophy, even more so, can apply to the AA BBSG and Section Mexico?
>
> I think the key word there is "sell."
>
> Peace;
>
> Dennis M.
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: jim_011591
>   To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:55 PM
>   Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: AA Growth History
>
>
>
>
>
>   Both at our pre-conference and at our delegate's report I heard this
> justification for selling literature to outside agencies:
>
>   "So what if we sell boxcar loads of Big Books to Hazelden and other
> facilities. They still end up in the hands of alcoholics."
>
>   --- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis" <gratefuldennis@> wrote:
>   >
>   > Good point Maryann. That may also explain why the majority of literature
>   > sales is from outside the fellowship. It is a paradox that the publisher
>   > using the AA name sells mostly outside the fellowship and the outside
>   > publisher (Anonymous Press) doesn't like to sell outside the fellowship
> at
>   > all.
>   >
>   > Peace,
>   >
>   > Dennis M.
>   >
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: Maryann Willis
>   > To: gsowatch@yahoogroups.com
>   > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:47 AM
>   > Subject: RE: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > A Big Book is sold or given as part of the cost to each individual who
>   > shows up at a treatment center. Many go back over and over and receive a
>   > book every time. I know one who had gone 21 times and was considering
> going
>   > again. That probably is only one explaination.
>   >
>   > Maryann
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > ----------------------------------------------------------
>   > To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
>   > From: Greg@
>   > Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:32:20 -0700
>   > Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > Hi Dennis and Bill,
>   >
>   > By 1976 there were 1,450,000 copies of the 1st two editions of the
>   > big book sold. We can compare that to the approximate membership of
> between
>   > 750,000 and 1,000,000 people at that time.
>   >
>   > Fast forward to 2005. Approximately 2 million members then but
>   > total big book sales are 25 million copies sold.
>   >
>   > Any thoughts?
>   > Greg
>   >
>   > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Dennis <gratefuldennis@> wrote:
>   >
>   >
>   > From: Dennis <gratefuldennis@>
>   > Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>   > To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
>   > Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:34 PM
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > Hi Bill;
>   >
>   > I don't know if this is what you were refering to but I will
>   > re-post it for those who may not have seen it. The figures come from our
> NY
>   > Headquarters and were published in the forwords of the Big Books.
>   >
>   > AA growth rate:
>   >
>   > In Box 459 from Oct./Nov. 2001, is the big sell issue for the New
>   > Forth Edition. In attempting to sell the point that all is well on the
>   > `carrying the message' frontline the New York Headquarters justify the
> need
>   > for the new edition by letting us know how much we have grown since the
>   > Third Edition. They claim we have grown from 440,000 in the US/Canada AA
> to
>   > over 2 million worldwide. Why are they using the US/Canada figures and
>   > comparing it to the world figures when the world figures are in the
> Third
>   > Edition as 1 million? Maybe they haven't read the Third Edition forward?
>   > (Note: They have since changed I think, not sure though because I don't
> have
>   > a 4th Edition.)
>   >
>   > Maybe they did the comparison that way because our growth rate in
>   > the US/Canada Section has been stagnate over the last decade and has
>   > actually decreased these past few years, even admittedly by the
> Conference
>   > reports. Since some places like Russia and Mexico has seen large
> increases
>   > maybe the creators of this spin just wanted to capitalize on the success
> of
>   > others, although both translations of the book, Russian and Spanish,
> have
>   > been the subject of litigations.
>   >
>   > Well now that the Forth Edition is out I can once again practice
>   > my high school math to see how well we are really doing. Here it is
> folks:
>   >
>   > In 1939 we had 100 sober members.
>   >
>   > In 1955 - 150,000
>   >
>   > In 1976 - 1,000,000 (Note: GSO has claimed 750,000 members in 1975
>   > but 1,000,000 in the Big Book which would be an even worse growth rate)
>   >
>   > In 2001 - 2,000,000 (Note: Just under)
>   >
>   > From 1939 - 1955 was 16 Years and we grew at a ratio of 1 to 1,500
>   > or our growth rate was 1 to 93.7 per year or a percentage of 9,370% a
> year.
>   >
>   > From 1955 to 1976 a period of 21 years that dropped dramatically
>   > to 1 to 66.6 or 1 to 3.1 per year for a percentage of 310% per yr.
>   >
>   > From 1976 to 2001 a period of 25 years it fell like the 1929 stock
>   > market to a ratio of only 1 to 2 or 1 to .08 per year and our growth
> rate
>   > dwindled to 8% a year.
>   >
>   > If you take into consideration that the world population has
>   > doubled since 1960 to 1999 so the number of potential members has also
>   > doubled it don't look so good for our future. It has been estimated that
>   > around 10% of the population are alcoholics. If we lower that to 5% we
> still
>   > get 300 million alcoholics in the world and actually 14,289,700 just in
> the
>   > USA. Every year we get 3.5 million new drunks to work with in the world.
>   >
>   > Now if you also take into consideration that the early members
>   > didn't have half their members referred from treatment centers, and they
>   > also had the social stigma about alcoholism, and didn't have drunks on
>   > television, and didn't have the massive corporate literature
> distribution
>   > like from Hazelden, and masses of therapist, psychologist, and judges
>   > sending folks to AA then our growth rate actually sucks. To look at it
> in a
>   > more dismal way, every drunk that was sober in AA in 1976 only carried
> the
>   > message to one other drunk in twenty-five years. "Don't see anything the
>   > matter here, Ma. Ain't it grand the wind stopped blowin'?"
>   >
>   > Peace,
>   >
>   > Dennis M.
>   >
>   >
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: bbfreeaa
>   > To: GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com
>   > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:06 AM
>   > Subject: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>   >
>   >
>   > I'm trying to find paper I've seen many times here showing AA's
>   > growth history, especially noting that is has seen no growth for the
> past
>   > 15-20 years after years of phenomenal growth. Can someone send that to
> me or
>   > post it here. Thanks
>   >
>   > B
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > ----------------------------------------------------------
>   > Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that's right for you.
>   >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: jim_011591

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:55 PM

Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: AA Growth History

Both at our pre-conference and at our delegate's report I heard this justification for selling literature to outside agencies:

"So what if we sell boxcar loads of Big Books to Hazelden and other facilities. They still end up in the hands of alcoholics."

--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis" <gratefuldennis@...> wrote:
>
> Good point Maryann. That may also explain why the majority of literature
> sales is from outside the fellowship. It is a paradox that the publisher
> using the AA name sells mostly outside the fellowship and the outside
> publisher (Anonymous Press) doesn't like to sell outside the fellowship at
> all.
>
> Peace,
>
> Dennis M.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Maryann Willis
> To: gsowatch@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:47 AM
> Subject: RE: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>
>
>
>
>
> A Big Book is sold or given as part of the cost to each individual who
> shows up at a treatment center. Many go back over and over and receive a
> book every time. I know one who had gone 21 times and was considering going
> again. That probably is only one explaination.
>
> Maryann
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
> From: Greg@...
> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:32:20 -0700
> Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>
>
>
>
> Hi Dennis and Bill,
>
> By 1976 there were 1,450,000 copies of the 1st two editions of the
> big book sold. We can compare that to the approximate membership of between
> 750,000 and 1,000,000 people at that time.
>
> Fast forward to 2005. Approximately 2 million members then but
> total big book sales are 25 million copies sold.
>
> Any thoughts?
> Greg
>
> --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Dennis <gratefuldennis@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Dennis <gratefuldennis@...>
> Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
> To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:34 PM
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Bill;
>
> I don't know if this is what you were refering to but I will
> re-post it for those who may not have seen it. The figures come from our NY
> Headquarters and were published in the forwords of the Big Books.
>
> AA growth rate:
>
> In Box 459 from Oct./Nov. 2001, is the big sell issue for the New
> Forth Edition. In attempting to sell the point that all is well on the
> `carrying the message' frontline the New York Headquarters justify the need
> for the new edition by letting us know how much we have grown since the
> Third Edition. They claim we have grown from 440,000 in the US/Canada AA to
> over 2 million worldwide. Why are they using the US/Canada figures and
> comparing it to the world figures when the world figures are in the Third
> Edition as 1 million? Maybe they haven't read the Third Edition forward?
> (Note: They have since changed I think, not sure though because I don't have
> a 4th Edition.)
>
> Maybe they did the comparison that way because our growth rate in
> the US/Canada Section has been stagnate over the last decade and has
> actually decreased these past few years, even admittedly by the Conference
> reports. Since some places like Russia and Mexico has seen large increases
> maybe the creators of this spin just wanted to capitalize on the success of
> others, although both translations of the book, Russian and Spanish, have
> been the subject of litigations.
>
> Well now that the Forth Edition is out I can once again practice
> my high school math to see how well we are really doing. Here it is folks:
>
> In 1939 we had 100 sober members.
>
> In 1955 � 150,000
>
> In 1976 � 1,000,000 (Note: GSO has claimed 750,000 members in 1975
> but 1,000,000 in the Big Book which would be an even worse growth rate)
>
> In 2001 � 2,000,000 (Note: Just under)
>
> From 1939 � 1955 was 16 Years and we grew at a ratio of 1 to 1,500
> or our growth rate was 1 to 93.7 per year or a percentage of 9,370% a year.
>
> From 1955 to 1976 a period of 21 years that dropped dramatically
> to 1 to 66.6 or 1 to 3.1 per year for a percentage of 310% per yr.
>
> From 1976 to 2001 a period of 25 years it fell like the 1929 stock
> market to a ratio of only 1 to 2 or 1 to .08 per year and our growth rate
> dwindled to 8% a year.
>
> If you take into consideration that the world population has
> doubled since 1960 to 1999 so the number of potential members has also
> doubled it don't look so good for our future. It has been estimated that
> around 10% of the population are alcoholics. If we lower that to 5% we still
> get 300 million alcoholics in the world and actually 14,289,700 just in the
> USA. Every year we get 3.5 million new drunks to work with in the world.
>
> Now if you also take into consideration that the early members
> didn't have half their members referred from treatment centers, and they
> also had the social stigma about alcoholism, and didn't have drunks on
> television, and didn't have the massive corporate literature distribution
> like from Hazelden, and masses of therapist, psychologist, and judges
> sending folks to AA then our growth rate actually sucks. To look at it in a
> more dismal way, every drunk that was sober in AA in 1976 only carried the
> message to one other drunk in twenty-five years. "Don't see anything the
> matter here, Ma. Ain't it grand the wind stopped blowin'?"
>
> Peace,
>
> Dennis M.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: bbfreeaa
> To: GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:06 AM
> Subject: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>
>
> I'm trying to find paper I've seen many times here showing AA's
> growth history, especially noting that is has seen no growth for the past
> 15-20 years after years of phenomenal growth. Can someone send that to me or
> post it here. Thanks
>
> B
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that's right for you.
>

Both at our pre-conference and at our delegate's report I heard this
justification for selling literature to outside agencies:

"So what if we sell boxcar loads of Big Books to Hazelden and other facilities.
They still end up in the hands of alcoholics."




--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis" <gratefuldennis@...> wrote:
>
> Good point Maryann. That may also explain why the majority of literature
> sales is from outside the fellowship. It is a paradox that the publisher
> using the AA name sells mostly outside the fellowship and the outside
> publisher (Anonymous Press) doesn't like to sell outside the fellowship at
> all.
>
> Peace,
>
> Dennis M.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Maryann Willis
>   To: gsowatch@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:47 AM
>   Subject: RE: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>
>
>
>
>
>   A Big Book is sold or given as part of the cost to each individual who
> shows up at a treatment center.  Many go back over and over and receive a
> book every time.  I know one who had gone 21 times and was considering going
> again.  That probably is only one explaination.
>
>   Maryann
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
>   From: Greg@...
>   Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:32:20 -0700
>   Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>
>
>
>
>         Hi Dennis and Bill,
>
>          By 1976 there were 1,450,000 copies of the 1st two editions of the
> big book sold. We can compare that to the approximate membership of between
> 750,000 and 1,000,000 people at that time.
>
>          Fast forward to 2005. Approximately 2 million members then but
> total big book sales are 25 million copies sold.
>
>         Any thoughts?
>         Greg
>
>         --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Dennis <gratefuldennis@...> wrote:
>
>
>           From: Dennis <gratefuldennis@...>
>           Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>           To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
>           Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:34 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>           Hi Bill;
>
>           I don't know if this is what you were refering to but I will
> re-post it for those who may not have seen it. The figures come from our NY
> Headquarters and were published in the forwords of the Big Books.
>
>           AA growth rate:
>
>           In Box 459 from Oct./Nov. 2001, is the big sell issue for the New
> Forth Edition. In attempting to sell the point that all is well on the
> `carrying the message' frontline the New York Headquarters justify the need
> for the new edition by letting us know how much we have grown since the
> Third Edition. They claim we have grown from 440,000 in the US/Canada AA to
> over 2 million worldwide. Why are they using the US/Canada figures and
> comparing it to the world figures when the world figures are in the Third
> Edition as 1 million? Maybe they haven't read the Third Edition forward?
> (Note: They have since changed I think, not sure though because I don't have
> a 4th Edition.)
>
>           Maybe they did the comparison that way because our growth rate in
> the US/Canada Section has been stagnate over the last decade and has
> actually decreased these past few years, even admittedly by the Conference
> reports. Since some places like Russia and Mexico has seen large increases
> maybe the creators of this spin just wanted to capitalize on the success of
> others, although both translations of the book, Russian and Spanish, have
> been the subject of litigations.
>
>           Well now that the Forth Edition is out I can once again practice
> my high school math to see how well we are really doing. Here it is folks:
>
>           In 1939 we had 100 sober members.
>
>           In 1955 � 150,000
>
>           In 1976 � 1,000,000 (Note: GSO has claimed 750,000 members in 1975
> but 1,000,000 in the Big Book which would be an even worse growth rate)
>
>           In 2001 � 2,000,000 (Note: Just under)
>
>           From 1939 � 1955 was 16 Years and we grew at a ratio of 1 to 1,500
> or our growth rate was 1 to 93.7 per year or a percentage of 9,370% a year.
>
>           From 1955 to 1976 a period of 21 years that dropped dramatically
> to 1 to 66.6 or 1 to 3.1 per year for a percentage of 310% per yr.
>
>           From 1976 to 2001 a period of 25 years it fell like the 1929 stock
> market to a ratio of only 1 to 2 or 1 to .08 per year and our growth rate
> dwindled to 8% a year.
>
>           If you take into consideration that the world population has
> doubled since 1960 to 1999 so the number of potential members has also
> doubled it don't look so good for our future. It has been estimated that
> around 10% of the population are alcoholics. If we lower that to 5% we still
> get 300 million alcoholics in the world and actually 14,289,700 just in the
> USA. Every year we get 3.5 million new drunks to work with in the world.
>
>           Now if you also take into consideration that the early members
> didn't have half their members referred from treatment centers, and they
> also had the social stigma about alcoholism, and didn't have drunks on
> television, and didn't have the massive corporate literature distribution
> like from Hazelden, and masses of therapist, psychologist, and judges
> sending folks to AA then our growth rate actually sucks. To look at it in a
> more dismal way, every drunk that was sober in AA in 1976 only carried the
> message to one other drunk in twenty-five years. "Don't see anything the
> matter here, Ma. Ain't it grand the wind stopped blowin'?"
>
>           Peace,
>
>           Dennis M.
>
>
>             ----- Original Message -----
>             From: bbfreeaa
>             To: GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com
>             Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:06 AM
>             Subject: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History
>
>
>             I'm trying to find paper I've seen many times here showing AA's
> growth history, especially noting that is has seen no growth for the past
> 15-20 years after years of phenomenal growth. Can someone send that to me or
> post it here. Thanks
>
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>   Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that's right for you.
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Maryann Willis

To: gsowatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:47 AM

Subject: RE: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History

A Big Book is sold or given as part of the cost to each individual who shows up at a treatment center.  Many go back over and over and receive a book every time.  I know one who had gone 21 times and was considering going again.  That probably is only one explaination.
 
Maryann
 

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To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
From: Greg@soberalcoholic.com
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:32:20 -0700
Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History

Hi Dennis and Bill,  By 1976 there were 1,450,000 copies of the 1st two editions of the big book sold. We can compare that to the approximate membership of between 750,000 and 1,000,000 people at that time.  Fast forward to 2005. Approximately 2 million members then but total big book sales are 25 million copies sold. Any thoughts? Greg --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Dennis <gratefuldennis@sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: Dennis <gratefuldennis@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 4:34 PM Hi Bill;   I don't know if this is what you were refering to but I will re-post it for those who may not have seen it. The figures come from our NY Headquarters and were published in the forwords of the Big Books.   AA growth rate:   In Box 459 from Oct./Nov. 2001, is the big sell issue for the New Forth Edition. In attempting to sell the point that all is well on the �carrying the message� frontline the New York Headquarters justify the need for the new edition by letting us know how much we have grown since the Third Edition. They claim we have grown from 440,000 in the US/Canada AA to over 2 million worldwide. Why are they using the US/Canada figures and comparing it to the world figures when the world figures are in the Third Edition as 1 million? Maybe they haven�t read the Third Edition forward? (Note: They have since changed I think, not sure though because I don�t have a 4th Edition.)   Maybe they did the comparison that way because our growth rate in the US/Canada Section has been stagnate over the last decade and has actually decreased these past few years, even admittedly by the Conference reports. Since some places like Russia and Mexico has seen large increases maybe the creators of this spin just wanted to capitalize on the success of others, although both translations of the book, Russian and Spanish, have been the subject of litigations.       Well now that the Forth Edition is out I can once again practice my high school math to see how well we are really doing. Here it is folks:   In 1939 we had 100 sober members.   In 1955 � 150,000   In 1976 � 1,000,000 (Note: GSO has claimed 750,000 members in 1975 but 1,000,000 in the Big Book which would be an even worse growth rate)   In 2001 � 2,000,000 (Note: Just under)   From 1939 � 1955 was 16 Years and we grew at a ratio of 1 to 1,500 or our growth rate was 1 to 93.7 per year or a percentage of 9,370% a year.   From 1955 to 1976 a period of 21 years that dropped dramatically to 1 to 66.6 or 1 to 3.1 per year for a percentage of 310% per yr.   From 1976 to 2001 a period of 25 years it fell like the 1929 stock market to a ratio of only 1 to 2 or 1 to .08 per year and our growth rate dwindled to 8% a year.   If you take into consideration that the world population has doubled since 1960 to 1999 so the number of potential members has also doubled it don�t look so good for our future. It has been estimated that around 10% of the population are alcoholics. If we lower that to 5% we still get 300 million alcoholics in the world and actually 14,289,700 just in the USA. Every year we get 3.5 million new drunks to work with in the world.   Now if you also take into consideration that the early members didn�t have half their members referred from treatment centers, and they also had the social stigma about alcoholism, and didn�t have drunks on television, and didn�t have the massive corporate literature distribution like from Hazelden, and masses of therapist, psychologist, and judges sending folks to AA then our growth rate actually sucks. To look at it in a more dismal way, every drunk that was sober in AA in 1976 only carried the message to one other drunk in twenty-five years. "Don't see anything the matter here, Ma. Ain't it grand the wind stopped blowin'?"   Peace,   Dennis M.   ----- Original Message ----- From: bbfreeaa To: GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:06 AM Subject: [GSOwatch] AA Growth History I'm trying to find paper I've seen many times here showing AA's growth history, especially noting that is has seen no growth for the past 15-20 years after years of phenomenal growth. Can someone send that to me or post it here. Thanks B

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Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that�s right for you.

The live web link to view all the errors on my website (Validation errors) has
been canceled by that website. The good news is I saved a pdf document of all
the errors on my site.

The link to view the errors: http://www.silkworth.net/site-validator.pdf

There are hyperlinks of every page with errors. Just click on the link and
choose web view. It opens up in a regular web page so you can see where the
errors are marked in red.

I'm glad I saved the pdf. Still waiting on calls or emails.

Your's in service,
Ever greatful,
Jim Myers,
http://www.silkworth.net/