I have been reading your e-mails for at least 3 years. I am legally
blind and have my computer read them to me.
I have had times when I missed some e-mails because Yahoo insists on
me reactivating my account. Being blind this can often take hours to
sort out . Mostly if I ignore them I start getting your e-mails again.
Anyway - Have you any idea what was meant when the last GSC decided
to review the Big Book as it has remained through 4 Editions


Marie
Pitt Meadows BC, Canada

----- Original Message -----

From: ianperry

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 12:45 AM

Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] Is this the "AA" we are in? Non-Professional?

So what has this pedigree got to do with OUR PRIMARY PURPOSE.

Ian

----- Original Message -----

From: johngillen10509

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 8:10 AM

Subject: [GSOwatch] Is this the "AA" we are in? Non-Professional?

We need to accept the obvious:

Canadian Named A.A.'s New Chairperson of the General Service Board

May 9, 2005 - (TORONTO, ON) � Albertan Leonard M. Blumenthal, LL.D, a Class A (non-alcoholic) trustee of Alcoholics Anonymous since 2000, was elected Chairperson of the organization's General Service Board. One of his first official appearances as Chair will be at the 2005 International A.A. Convention being held in Toronto from June 30 to July 3, 2005.

Len Blumenthal has been recognized over the years as one of Canada's most prominent professionals in the field of alcohol and drug abuse counseling and research. A long-time resident of Rolly View, Alberta, he worked for the Alberta Alcohol and Drug Abuse Commission (AADAC) for almost 30 years, from 1969 to 1998. He served as Chief Executive Officer of the Commission beginning in 1987.

In the course of his work, Blumenthal has acted as a consultant to Grant MacEwan Community College, the Department of the Attorney General and the Government of the Northwest Territories, for which he conducted a series of seminars with Native and non-Native Canadians, with special reference to management and control of alcohol and alcohol-related programs. In 1985, he was a speaker at the International Convention celebrating A.A.'s 50th anniversary in Montreal. In 1993, he was presented with the Eagle Feather, the highest honor of the Nechi Institute on Addictions, �gfor wisdom and bravery in working with Native Indian addiction problems.�h

�gWe look forward to holding the Alcoholics Anonymous International Convention in Toronto this upcoming summer. The last AA International Convention held in Canada was in 1985 in Montreal and drew over 44,000 people,�h Blumenthal said. �gWe are excited to be holding this celebration in Canada once again and bringing worldwide attention to this fellowship of men and women from across the world.�h

After his retirement from the AADAC, Blumenthal was appointed to the board of directors of the Capital Health Authority of Edmonton, which is responsible for 900,000 people. He also volunteered for the United Nations International Drug Control Programme (UNDCP) and the Organization of American Stats (OAS) Inter-American Commission of Drug Control.

As a class A trustee, Blumenthal serves as one of a vital group of professionals with various areas of expertise that they share generously for the good of A.A. Unlike A.A. members, who seek to maintain personal anonymity at the public level, class A trustees can face cameras and reporters, and be fully identified in the media.

The immediate Past Chair of the A.A. General Service Board, Elaine McDowell, Ph.D., who passed the gavel to Len Blumenthal in April, worked with the U.S. Federal Government as deputy director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, and as director of the Center for Substance Abuse Prevention (CSAP). Chairman Emeritus Gary A. Glynn, New York, is President and Chief Investment Officer of the U.S. Steel and Carnegie Pension funds.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: johngillen10509

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 8:10 AM

Subject: [GSOwatch] Is this the "AA" we are in? Non-Professional?

We need to accept the obvious:

Canadian Named A.A.'s New Chairperson of the General Service Board

May 9, 2005 - (TORONTO, ON) � Albertan Leonard M. Blumenthal, LL.D, a Class A (non-alcoholic) trustee of Alcoholics Anonymous since 2000, was elected Chairperson of the organization's General Service Board. One of his first official appearances as Chair will be at the 2005 International A.A. Convention being held in Toronto from June 30 to July 3, 2005.

Len Blumenthal has been recognized over the years as one of Canada's most prominent professionals in the field of alcohol and drug abuse counseling and research. A long-time resident of Rolly View, Alberta, he worked for the Alberta Alcohol and Drug Abuse Commission (AADAC) for almost 30 years, from 1969 to 1998. He served as Chief Executive Officer of the Commission beginning in 1987.

In the course of his work, Blumenthal has acted as a consultant to Grant MacEwan Community College, the Department of the Attorney General and the Government of the Northwest Territories, for which he conducted a series of seminars with Native and non-Native Canadians, with special reference to management and control of alcohol and alcohol-related programs. In 1985, he was a speaker at the International Convention celebrating A.A.'s 50th anniversary in Montreal. In 1993, he was presented with the Eagle Feather, the highest honor of the Nechi Institute on Addictions, �gfor wisdom and bravery in working with Native Indian addiction problems.�h

�gWe look forward to holding the Alcoholics Anonymous International Convention in Toronto this upcoming summer. The last AA International Convention held in Canada was in 1985 in Montreal and drew over 44,000 people,�h Blumenthal said. �gWe are excited to be holding this celebration in Canada once again and bringing worldwide attention to this fellowship of men and women from across the world.�h

After his retirement from the AADAC, Blumenthal was appointed to the board of directors of the Capital Health Authority of Edmonton, which is responsible for 900,000 people. He also volunteered for the United Nations International Drug Control Programme (UNDCP) and the Organization of American Stats (OAS) Inter-American Commission of Drug Control.

As a class A trustee, Blumenthal serves as one of a vital group of professionals with various areas of expertise that they share generously for the good of A.A. Unlike A.A. members, who seek to maintain personal anonymity at the public level, class A trustees can face cameras and reporters, and be fully identified in the media.

The immediate Past Chair of the A.A. General Service Board, Elaine McDowell, Ph.D., who passed the gavel to Len Blumenthal in April, worked with the U.S. Federal Government as deputy director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, and as director of the Center for Substance Abuse Prevention (CSAP). Chairman Emeritus Gary A. Glynn, New York, is President and Chief Investment Officer of the U.S. Steel and Carnegie Pension funds.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: johngillen10509

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 3:20 PM

Subject: [GSOwatch] Oh, oh - Someone changed the First Step:

  "Let's Look at the record."(Alcoholics Anonymous, pg. 50)
  "AA's Twelve Steps are a group of principles, spiritual in nature,
which, if practiced as a way of life, can expel the obsession to
drink and enable the sufferer to become happily and usefully whole."
(Forward, Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions)

Now, who would have guessed that if YOU do 12 Steps just right it
will have the POWER to remove the obsession to drink? Imagine that --
all ya gotta do is work those old Steps the RIGHT way. We really do
have the power!!!!!

Sounds like a scheme to me.

What the heck was the author of the 12x12 thinking? Makes ya wonder
who really wrote that book.

John G.



--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the GSOwatch
> group.
>
>   File        : /Letslook.doc
>   Uploaded by : thecarrierboys <Greg@...>
>   Description : Let's Look at the Record (flyer)
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSOwatch/files/Letslook.doc
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> thecarrierboys <Greg@...>
>

"Let's Look at the record."(Alcoholics Anonymous, pg. 50)
   "AA's Twelve Steps are a group of principles, spiritual in nature,
which, if practiced as a way of life, can expel the obsession to
drink and enable the sufferer to become happily and usefully whole."
(Forward, Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions)

Now, who would have guessed that if YOU do 12 Steps just right it
will have the POWER to remove the obsession to drink? Imagine that --
  all ya gotta do is work those old Steps the RIGHT way. We really do
have the power!!!!!

Sounds like a scheme to me.

What the heck was the author of the 12x12 thinking? Makes ya wonder
who really wrote that book.

John G.



--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the GSOwatch
> group.
>
>   File        : /Letslook.doc
>   Uploaded by : thecarrierboys <Greg@...>
>   Description : Let's Look at the Record (flyer)
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSOwatch/files/Letslook.doc
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> thecarrierboys <Greg@...>
>

We need to accept the obvious:

Canadian Named A.A.'s New Chairperson of the General Service Board

Len Blumenthal has been recognized over the years as one of Canada's most prominent professionals in the field of alcohol and drug abuse counseling and research. A long-time resident of Rolly View, Alberta, he worked for the Alberta Alcohol and Drug Abuse Commission (AADAC) for almost 30 years, from 1969 to 1998. He served as Chief Executive Officer of the Commission beginning in 1987.

In the course of his work, Blumenthal has acted as a consultant to Grant MacEwan Community College, the Department of the Attorney General and the Government of the Northwest Territories, for which he conducted a series of seminars with Native and non-Native Canadians, with special reference to management and control of alcohol and alcohol-related programs. In 1985, he was a speaker at the International Convention celebrating A.A.'s 50th anniversary in Montreal. In 1993, he was presented with the Eagle Feather, the highest honor of the Nechi Institute on Addictions, �gfor wisdom and bravery in working with Native Indian addiction problems.�h

�gWe look forward to holding the Alcoholics Anonymous International Convention in Toronto this upcoming summer. The last AA International Convention held in Canada was in 1985 in Montreal and drew over 44,000 people,�h Blumenthal said. �gWe are excited to be holding this celebration in Canada once again and bringing worldwide attention to this fellowship of men and women from across the world.�h

After his retirement from the AADAC, Blumenthal was appointed to the board of directors of the Capital Health Authority of Edmonton, which is responsible for 900,000 people. He also volunteered for the United Nations International Drug Control Programme (UNDCP) and the Organization of American Stats (OAS) Inter-American Commission of Drug Control.

As a class A trustee, Blumenthal serves as one of a vital group of professionals with various areas of expertise that they share generously for the good of A.A. Unlike A.A. members, who seek to maintain personal anonymity at the public level, class A trustees can face cameras and reporters, and be fully identified in the media.

The immediate Past Chair of the A.A. General Service Board, Elaine McDowell, Ph.D., who passed the gavel to Len Blumenthal in April, worked with the U.S. Federal Government as deputy director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, and as director of the Center for Substance Abuse Prevention (CSAP). Chairman Emeritus Gary A. Glynn, New York, is President and Chief Investment Officer of the U.S. Steel and Carnegie Pension funds.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the GSOwatch
group.

   File        : /Letslook.doc
   Uploaded by : thecarrierboys <Greg@...>
   Description : Let's Look at the Record (flyer)

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GSOwatch/files/Letslook.doc

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

thecarrierboys <Greg@...>

Anyone thought of hosting a hospitality suite at your state
convention.     Could provide a very low-key way of spreading the word
about some of the more nefarious practices at GSO.  You could create
low-level buzz at a conference over a weekend...buzz that might travel
back to home groups.

----- Original Message -----

From: Sober Alcoholic

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com ; greg@...

Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:42 PM

Subject: [GSOwatch] Lets Look at the Record

Hi Everybody,
 I am thinking about distributing this "Flyer" at the next District meeting. Please give me feedback, comments, concerns or tweaks.

 With love and in service, Greg

----- Original Message -----

From: Sober Alcoholic

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com ; greg@...

Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:42 PM

Subject: [GSOwatch] Lets Look at the Record

Hi Everybody,
 I am thinking about distributing this "Flyer" at the next District meeting. Please give me feedback, comments, concerns or tweaks.

 With love and in service, Greg

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/348 - Release Date: 5/25/2006

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/348 - Release Date: 5/25/2006

On Tue, 23 May 2006, Dennis wrote:

> There is an article by Tom J. in the April 65 OPPF. I don't know if that is
> what you are referring to but you can find it here either in htm or pdf
> formats.
>
> http://www.aamo.info/oppf/OPPF2April2005.htm

What the heck does AAWS need a $1 million computer for?

Ted H

John,
    I don't disagree with you at all.  It's messy.  We have got to pull
this thing back to basics (and I don't mean Wally P's Back to Basics
crap either).
                                       Bill



--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "John C." <vikingjunior@...> wrote:
>
> Of course I was generalizing with my post, am sure there are some
great people there and also am sure there are people who adopt our way
of life even with everything still in tact, far and few though.
>
>   Thing is Bill it shouldn't have to be this way of fighting like
cats and dogs, everything surrounding AA is controversial, there is NO
agreement on a common solution and there never will be. I have yet to
see anything in the last 10 tears to suggest we are trying to get back
to basics, nothing. I only see AAWS inc getting further and further
from our primary purpose. I went through that whole standing on the
fire line thing, more bad came out of it then good. Again it goes back
to what class of people dominate AA and AAWS, you are fighting a
lossing battle. When AA becomes 75% alcoholic again you may have a
chance but as it stands now, no way.
>
>    There is a such thing as to far gone and IMO AA is to far gone
today to ever be turned around. It might sound like am just being
negative and pesstimistic but I believe am being realistic here.
>
>    So  I commend your efforts and wish you the best.
>
>                                                                John C.
>
> Bill <bbfreeaa@...> wrote:
>   Hi John,
>    As I read your post I thought of a couple of comments.  First off,
> on your comment " most are just like the big cats in AAWS where there
> was no spiritual experience needed for sobriety." is not true for
> everyone at GSO.  I know several who are appalled at the ignorance of
> our principles.  They are dedicated Big Book folks and one of them
> tried to get rid of "Living Sober" as conference approved literature.
> They fight the good fight every day.  Yes, there are some who I
> wonder if they really drank the way I did.
>    As far as leaving groups because they don't talk AA or follow
> principles, yes, there are lots of those out there.  My home group,
> however, has a strong core that has kept our group solidly grounded in
> AA principles.  We believe that the Steps mean what they say...no
> exceptions.  We believe in the Traditions...no exceptions and autonomy
> is no excuse to break them.  And we are active in service, trying to
> exact some change through the structure and you bet it gets
frustrating.
>    The way we have achieved this at my home group is through strong
> sponsorship.  The environment of our meetings is not conducive to
> outside issues such as drugs or therapy.  They are solution oriented.
> Visitors have tried to crack us but we don't budge.  They will either
> do AA with us or go somewhere else.  We are solidly united on this.
> This take a lot of guts sometimes but it is worth it.  I have found
> that when established in a solid group like this, folks are more
> willing to listen to problems we perceive in AA without them calling
> us a bunch of kooks.
>    We just had the SW Regional Trustee in town this weekend for a
> grilling session.  He wants the Big Book price reduced to our cost to
> print it.  He wants the elimination of all "feel good" literature such
> as pamphlets and Living Sober gone.  He has pissed a lot of folks off
> up there in NY.  I'm damned proud of his efforts and support him all
> the way.
>    I guess what I'm saying is the key to making folks more aware of
> the craziness that sometimes comes from GSO is to establish
> credibility first.  Otherwise, we just become kooky people with long
> rants on a keyboard somewhere.  And to establish such credibility
> takes a lot of commitment and work.  Just my thoughts.
>                                                 Bill
>
>
> --- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "John C." <vikingjunior@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Greg,
> >
> >   I just had to respond because what you wrote is sooo real.
> Unfortunately I myself have fell out with many people who I call
> friends because of what you exactly described. I'm sometimes viewed as
> bashing AA. It's been my experience that most if not all have no clue
> what the Service Manual is or even own one. They barely even know what
> the traditions are. I have found that most just don't want to believe
> or even hear it. It's like am talking in some other language.
> >
> >   I have even left a BB meeting that I help start because of the
> stubbornness on the groups part to even look at the pages on top of
> pages of proof I have offered to make INFORMED group conscious.
> >
> >   In my experience the real problem with trying to better inform
> members of AA of the doings of AAWS inc. is that most are just like
> the big cats in AAWS where there was no spiritual experience needed
> for sobriety. When this kind of sobriety is achieved then the steps,
> traditions and concepts become a waste of paper to them. The BB makes
> no sense to them either while on the other hand books like Living
> Sober makes alot of sense.When this kind of sobriety is achieved then
> the steps, traditions and concepts become a waste of paper to them.
> The BB makes no sense to them either while on the other hand books
> like Living Sober makes alot of sense.
> >
> >   It's also my experience that most people who had a spiritual
> experience as a result of these steps are usually the only ones who
> might not be contempt prior to investigation when it comes to AAWS inc.
> >
> >   Greg there is a world of ignorance within AA and honestly if you
> find a way to communicate this information without being viewed as a
> AA basher then please let me know.
> >
> >   Personally I barely even go to AA meetings anymore as far as am
> concerned these hard drinkers have taken over most of AA and have
> distorted the message so bad that I get sick to my stomach to sit
> there and listen to it and trying to convey the AA message in it's
> original form has become to controversial and I saw no good coming out
> of it. I also have found that AA has become a place for high class
> alcoholics, it's hard to offer the 12 steps to a guy who still has
> money in the bank, a car in the garage and wife at home cooking.
> >
> >    I do have my institution commitments where I usually find the
> cream of the crop alcoholics who were just like me. They say AA was
> originally for low bottom drunks and it should of stayed that way, we
> should of had NO meetings and just continue to take the message into
> hospitals and asylums.
> >
> >   LOL I was sitting in a AA meeting the other day and the chair
> person preceded to spend 15 minutes reading all the dances and other
> non AA crap but if you say something they will whip out the " each
> group is autonomous" tradition, they know that tradition real well.
> >
> >    Maybe we should stop trying to save AA and just let in crumble so
> we can start over. Greg I wish you the best.
> >
> >                                                            John C.
> >
> > thecarrierboys <Greg@> wrote:
> >   Hi Everybody,
> >
> > I am a garden variety drunk.  How can I convey these important facts
> > I am learning here at GSO Watch concerning the government of AAWS Inc.
> > to other drunks without losing them when I open my mouth? I really
> > need to keep it simple for myself,in order to inform another drunk who
> > is as brain impaired as me, and who loves AA and all of the "BEST"
> > principles that it is "SUPPOSED"  to stand for.
> > I think I understand the article two changes in relation to the power
> > that it gives AAWS in litigation over copyrights and how the
> > conference is a rubber stamp of GSO, GSB which "is" AAWS Inc. and not
> > part of AA. But when I quote parts of the General Warranties of
> > Concept Twelve of The General Service Manual which is Conference
> > approved literature for North America but not Mexico since the Article
> > 2 change of the Conference Charter in 79' or 87',people don't have any
> > clue as to what I am talking about except that I am "attacking" our AA
> > (See, I lost myself again.)
> > My head hurts because I am unable to translate all of this into a
> > simple  statement that will get/keep the attention of those I need to
> > inform.
> >
> > Please help me to keep it simple, somehow!! I am not a lawyer and
> > neither are most of our beloved fellowship, but when it comes to
> > "bullshit", we know it when we step in it!! Help me to help more of
> > our friends to "step in" the bullshit of AAWS Inc. so that our beloved
> > fellowship isn't lost from within.
> >
> > With love and in service, Greg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >     Visit your group "GSOwatch" on the web.
> >
> >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  GSOwatch-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   SPONSORED LINKS
>         Article health wellness   Center for health and wellness
Health and wellness     Health and wellness program   Health wellness
product   Health and wellness job
>
> ---------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>     Visit your group "GSOwatch" on the web.
>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  GSOwatch-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>

Hi GSOwatchers,

 

My Dear Sweet Mama, 86 years old this past January, died this past Thursday after being in a nursing home for about a year.  Thankfully, I understand that it was VERY quick and painless, even though I don't know at this time what the details are.

 

Hi John,
   As I read your post I thought of a couple of comments.  First off,
on your comment " most are just like the big cats in AAWS where there
was no spiritual experience needed for sobriety." is not true for
everyone at GSO.  I know several who are appalled at the ignorance of
our principles.  They are dedicated Big Book folks and one of them
tried to get rid of "Living Sober" as conference approved literature.
They fight the good fight every day.  Yes, there are some who I
wonder if they really drank the way I did.
   As far as leaving groups because they don't talk AA or follow
principles, yes, there are lots of those out there.  My home group,
however, has a strong core that has kept our group solidly grounded in
AA principles.  We believe that the Steps mean what they say...no
exceptions.  We believe in the Traditions...no exceptions and autonomy
is no excuse to break them.  And we are active in service, trying to
exact some change through the structure and you bet it gets frustrating.
   The way we have achieved this at my home group is through strong
sponsorship.  The environment of our meetings is not conducive to
outside issues such as drugs or therapy.  They are solution oriented.
Visitors have tried to crack us but we don't budge.  They will either
do AA with us or go somewhere else.  We are solidly united on this.
This take a lot of guts sometimes but it is worth it.  I have found
that when established in a solid group like this, folks are more
willing to listen to problems we perceive in AA without them calling
us a bunch of kooks.
   We just had the SW Regional Trustee in town this weekend for a
grilling session.  He wants the Big Book price reduced to our cost to
print it.  He wants the elimination of all "feel good" literature such
as pamphlets and Living Sober gone.  He has pissed a lot of folks off
up there in NY.  I'm damned proud of his efforts and support him all
the way.
   I guess what I'm saying is the key to making folks more aware of
the craziness that sometimes comes from GSO is to establish
credibility first.  Otherwise, we just become kooky people with long
rants on a keyboard somewhere.  And to establish such credibility
takes a lot of commitment and work.  Just my thoughts.
                                                Bill


--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "John C." <vikingjunior@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>   
>   I just had to respond because what you wrote is sooo real.
Unfortunately I myself have fell out with many people who I call
friends because of what you exactly described. I'm sometimes viewed as
bashing AA. It's been my experience that most if not all have no clue
what the Service Manual is or even own one. They barely even know what
the traditions are. I have found that most just don't want to believe
or even hear it. It's like am talking in some other language.
>   
>   I have even left a BB meeting that I help start because of the
stubbornness on the groups part to even look at the pages on top of
pages of proof I have offered to make INFORMED group conscious.
>   
>   In my experience the real problem with trying to better inform
members of AA of the doings of AAWS inc. is that most are just like
the big cats in AAWS where there was no spiritual experience needed
for sobriety. When this kind of sobriety is achieved then the steps,
traditions and concepts become a waste of paper to them. The BB makes
no sense to them either while on the other hand books like Living
Sober makes alot of sense.When this kind of sobriety is achieved then
the steps, traditions and concepts become a waste of paper to them.
The BB makes no sense to them either while on the other hand books
like Living Sober makes alot of sense.
>   
>   It's also my experience that most people who had a spiritual
experience as a result of these steps are usually the only ones who
might not be contempt prior to investigation when it comes to AAWS inc.
>   
>   Greg there is a world of ignorance within AA and honestly if you
find a way to communicate this information without being viewed as a
AA basher then please let me know.
>   
>   Personally I barely even go to AA meetings anymore as far as am
concerned these hard drinkers have taken over most of AA and have
distorted the message so bad that I get sick to my stomach to sit
there and listen to it and trying to convey the AA message in it's
original form has become to controversial and I saw no good coming out
of it. I also have found that AA has become a place for high class
alcoholics, it's hard to offer the 12 steps to a guy who still has
money in the bank, a car in the garage and wife at home cooking.
>   
>    I do have my institution commitments where I usually find the
cream of the crop alcoholics who were just like me. They say AA was
originally for low bottom drunks and it should of stayed that way, we
should of had NO meetings and just continue to take the message into
hospitals and asylums.
>   
>   LOL I was sitting in a AA meeting the other day and the chair
person preceded to spend 15 minutes reading all the dances and other
non AA crap but if you say something they will whip out the " each
group is autonomous" tradition, they know that tradition real well.
>   
>    Maybe we should stop trying to save AA and just let in crumble so
we can start over. Greg I wish you the best.
>   
>                                                            John C.
>
> thecarrierboys <Greg@...> wrote:
>   Hi Everybody,
>
> I am a garden variety drunk.  How can I convey these important facts
> I am learning here at GSO Watch concerning the government of AAWS Inc.
> to other drunks without losing them when I open my mouth? I really
> need to keep it simple for myself,in order to inform another drunk who
> is as brain impaired as me, and who loves AA and all of the "BEST"
> principles that it is "SUPPOSED"  to stand for.
> I think I understand the article two changes in relation to the power
> that it gives AAWS in litigation over copyrights and how the
> conference is a rubber stamp of GSO, GSB which "is" AAWS Inc. and not
> part of AA. But when I quote parts of the General Warranties of
> Concept Twelve of The General Service Manual which is Conference
> approved literature for North America but not Mexico since the Article
> 2 change of the Conference Charter in 79' or 87',people don't have any
> clue as to what I am talking about except that I am "attacking" our AA
> (See, I lost myself again.)
> My head hurts because I am unable to translate all of this into a
> simple  statement that will get/keep the attention of those I need to
> inform.
>
> Please help me to keep it simple, somehow!! I am not a lawyer and
> neither are most of our beloved fellowship, but when it comes to
> "bullshit", we know it when we step in it!! Help me to help more of
> our friends to "step in" the bullshit of AAWS Inc. so that our beloved
> fellowship isn't lost from within.
>
> With love and in service, Greg
>
>
>
>
>
>    
> ---------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>    
>     Visit your group "GSOwatch" on the web.
>    
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  GSOwatch-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>    
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>    
> ---------------------------------
>

How about:

What time today are you going to quit using the "AA" name as part of
your corporate name? All it takes is a simple majority vote of a
quorum of the Trustees - nothing else is required. Nothing.

John G.

--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <bbfreeaa@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Gary,
>    I'll see what I can do.  We are supposed to receive a powerpoint
> presentation of the AA financial report soon.  My Delegate wants
me to
> set it up since she doesn't know much about computers.  This
should be
> interesting.  You ask good questions, thanks for the heads up.
>                                                         Bill
>
>
> --- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Becktell" <gk@> wrote:
> >
> > Bill,
> >     I have talked to the SW Regional Trustee several times and
agree
> that he
> > says he is against literature profits and much of the AAWS
Literature.
> > Unfortunately the only solution he has offered is for the Groups
to
> send so
> > much money that they won't need lit profits to do all they want
to
> do. So I
> > don't see the knight in shining armor thing. The groups, for
various
> > reasons, are not going to more than double their contributions
and
> the last
> > time they did reach the desired amount AAWS just raised their
budget
> and we
> > were back to huge lit profits to support everything they are
doing.
> >     In my Home Group, District and Area, if we can't afford to do
> something
> > we don't just start a business and make enough money to do it.
We do
> without
> > until the Seventh Tradition provides what we need to do more.
> >
> >     Here is a good project for you Bill, if you would be
interested.
> Last
> > year AAWS fired a whole bunch of employees, trying to save
money. In
> that
> > same period and since, has the travel budget decreased and by how
> much. (%)
> > How much $ is spent each year by the Trustees and managers to
travel
> and
> > stay in hotels and eat? I know that in the past this budget has
been
> huge. I
> > personally think it may be way out of line with who we are. Why
are
> Class A
> > Trustees being allowed to carry the AA message? We have real
> alcoholics up
> > there. It's not like we need professionals to spend our money to
go
> where
> > alcoholics already are carrying the message.
> >     At any rate, I am wondering if the GSB is cutting the parts
of the
> > budget that effect them personally. Could you find out for me?
> >
>
>
>
> >                 G
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill" <bbfreeaa@>
> > To: <GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:30 AM
> > Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: My Head Hurts
> >
> >
> > Hi John,
> >    As I read your post I thought of a couple of comments.  First
off,
> > on your comment " most are just like the big cats in AAWS where
there
> > was no spiritual experience needed for sobriety." is not true for
> > everyone at GSO.  I know several who are appalled at the
ignorance of
> > our principles.  They are dedicated Big Book folks and one of
them
> > tried to get rid of "Living Sober" as conference approved
literature.
> >  They fight the good fight every day.  Yes, there are some who I
> > wonder if they really drank the way I did.
> >    As far as leaving groups because they don't talk AA or follow
> > principles, yes, there are lots of those out there.  My home
group,
> > however, has a strong core that has kept our group solidly
grounded in
> > AA principles.  We believe that the Steps mean what they say...no
> > exceptions.  We believe in the Traditions...no exceptions and
autonomy
> > is no excuse to break them.  And we are active in service,
trying to
> > exact some change through the structure and you bet it gets
frustrating.
> >    The way we have achieved this at my home group is through
strong
> > sponsorship.  The environment of our meetings is not conducive to
> > outside issues such as drugs or therapy.  They are solution
oriented.
> >  Visitors have tried to crack us but we don't budge.  They will
either
> > do AA with us or go somewhere else.  We are solidly united on
this.
> > This take a lot of guts sometimes but it is worth it.  I have
found
> > that when established in a solid group like this, folks are more
> > willing to listen to problems we perceive in AA without them
calling
> > us a bunch of kooks.
> >    We just had the SW Regional Trustee in town this weekend for a
> > grilling session.  He wants the Big Book price reduced to our
cost to
> > print it.  He wants the elimination of all "feel good"
literature such
> > as pamphlets and Living Sober gone.  He has pissed a lot of
folks off
> > up there in NY.  I'm damned proud of his efforts and support him
all
> > the way.
> >    I guess what I'm saying is the key to making folks more aware
of
> > the craziness that sometimes comes from GSO is to establish
> > credibility first.  Otherwise, we just become kooky people with
long
> > rants on a keyboard somewhere.  And to establish such credibility
> > takes a lot of commitment and work.  Just my thoughts.
> >                                                 Bill
> >
> >
> > --- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "John C." <vikingjunior@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Greg,
> > >
> > >   I just had to respond because what you wrote is sooo real.
> > Unfortunately I myself have fell out with many people who I call
> > friends because of what you exactly described. I'm sometimes
viewed as
> > bashing AA. It's been my experience that most if not all have no
clue
> > what the Service Manual is or even own one. They barely even
know what
> > the traditions are. I have found that most just don't want to
believe
> > or even hear it. It's like am talking in some other language.
> > >
> > >   I have even left a BB meeting that I help start because of
the
> > stubbornness on the groups part to even look at the pages on top
of
> > pages of proof I have offered to make INFORMED group conscious.
> > >
> > >   In my experience the real problem with trying to better
inform
> > members of AA of the doings of AAWS inc. is that most are just
like
> > the big cats in AAWS where there was no spiritual experience
needed
> > for sobriety. When this kind of sobriety is achieved then the
steps,
> > traditions and concepts become a waste of paper to them. The BB
makes
> > no sense to them either while on the other hand books like Living
> > Sober makes alot of sense.When this kind of sobriety is achieved
then
> > the steps, traditions and concepts become a waste of paper to
them.
> > The BB makes no sense to them either while on the other hand
books
> > like Living Sober makes alot of sense.
> > >
> > >   It's also my experience that most people who had a spiritual
> > experience as a result of these steps are usually the only ones
who
> > might not be contempt prior to investigation when it comes to
AAWS inc.
> > >
> > >   Greg there is a world of ignorance within AA and honestly if
you
> > find a way to communicate this information without being viewed
as a
> > AA basher then please let me know.
> > >
> > >   Personally I barely even go to AA meetings anymore as far as
am
> > concerned these hard drinkers have taken over most of AA and have
> > distorted the message so bad that I get sick to my stomach to sit
> > there and listen to it and trying to convey the AA message in
it's
> > original form has become to controversial and I saw no good
coming out
> > of it. I also have found that AA has become a place for high
class
> > alcoholics, it's hard to offer the 12 steps to a guy who still
has
> > money in the bank, a car in the garage and wife at home cooking.
> > >
> > >    I do have my institution commitments where I usually find
the
> > cream of the crop alcoholics who were just like me. They say AA
was
> > originally for low bottom drunks and it should of stayed that
way, we
> > should of had NO meetings and just continue to take the message
into
> > hospitals and asylums.
> > >
> > >   LOL I was sitting in a AA meeting the other day and the chair
> > person preceded to spend 15 minutes reading all the dances and
other
> > non AA crap but if you say something they will whip out the "
each
> > group is autonomous" tradition, they know that tradition real
well.
> > >
> > >    Maybe we should stop trying to save AA and just let in
crumble so
> > we can start over. Greg I wish you the best.
> > >
> > >
John C.
> > >
> > > thecarrierboys <Greg@> wrote:
> > >   Hi Everybody,
> > >
> > > I am a garden variety drunk.  How can I convey these important
facts
> > > I am learning here at GSO Watch concerning the government of
AAWS Inc.
> > > to other drunks without losing them when I open my mouth? I
really
> > > need to keep it simple for myself,in order to inform another
drunk who
> > > is as brain impaired as me, and who loves AA and all of
the "BEST"
> > > principles that it is "SUPPOSED"  to stand for.
> > > I think I understand the article two changes in relation to
the power
> > > that it gives AAWS in litigation over copyrights and how the
> > > conference is a rubber stamp of GSO, GSB which "is" AAWS Inc.
and not
> > > part of AA. But when I quote parts of the General Warranties of
> > > Concept Twelve of The General Service Manual which is
Conference
> > > approved literature for North America but not Mexico since the
Article
> > > 2 change of the Conference Charter in 79' or 87',people don't
have any
> > > clue as to what I am talking about except that I
am "attacking" our AA
> > > (See, I lost myself again.)
> > > My head hurts because I am unable to translate all of this
into a
> > > simple  statement that will get/keep the attention of those I
need to
> > > inform.
> > >
> > > Please help me to keep it simple, somehow!! I am not a lawyer
and
> > > neither are most of our beloved fellowship, but when it comes
to
> > > "bullshit", we know it when we step in it!! Help me to help
more of
> > > our friends to "step in" the bullshit of AAWS Inc. so that our
beloved
> > > fellowship isn't lost from within.
> > >
> > > With love and in service, Greg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > >
> > >     Visit your group "GSOwatch" on the web.
> > >
> > >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >  GSOwatch-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/347 - Release Date:
5/24/2006
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/347 - Release Date:
5/24/2006
> >
>

Hi Gary,
    I'll see what I can do.  We are supposed to receive a powerpoint
presentation of the AA financial report soon.  My Delegate wants me to
set it up since she doesn't know much about computers.  This should be
interesting.  You ask good questions, thanks for the heads up.
                                                         Bill


--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Becktell" <gk@...> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>     I have talked to the SW Regional Trustee several times and agree
that he
> says he is against literature profits and much of the AAWS Literature.
> Unfortunately the only solution he has offered is for the Groups to
send so
> much money that they won't need lit profits to do all they want to
do. So I
> don't see the knight in shining armor thing. The groups, for various
> reasons, are not going to more than double their contributions and
the last
> time they did reach the desired amount AAWS just raised their budget
and we
> were back to huge lit profits to support everything they are doing.
>     In my Home Group, District and Area, if we can't afford to do
something
> we don't just start a business and make enough money to do it. We do
without
> until the Seventh Tradition provides what we need to do more.
>
>     Here is a good project for you Bill, if you would be interested.
Last
> year AAWS fired a whole bunch of employees, trying to save money. In
that
> same period and since, has the travel budget decreased and by how
much. (%)
> How much $ is spent each year by the Trustees and managers to travel
and
> stay in hotels and eat? I know that in the past this budget has been
huge. I
> personally think it may be way out of line with who we are. Why are
Class A
> Trustees being allowed to carry the AA message? We have real
alcoholics up
> there. It's not like we need professionals to spend our money to go
where
> alcoholics already are carrying the message.
>     At any rate, I am wondering if the GSB is cutting the parts of the
> budget that effect them personally. Could you find out for me?
>
>

>                 G
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill" <bbfreeaa@...>
> To: <GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:30 AM
> Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: My Head Hurts
>
>
> Hi John,
>    As I read your post I thought of a couple of comments.  First off,
> on your comment " most are just like the big cats in AAWS where there
> was no spiritual experience needed for sobriety." is not true for
> everyone at GSO.  I know several who are appalled at the ignorance of
> our principles.  They are dedicated Big Book folks and one of them
> tried to get rid of "Living Sober" as conference approved literature.
>  They fight the good fight every day.  Yes, there are some who I
> wonder if they really drank the way I did.
>    As far as leaving groups because they don't talk AA or follow
> principles, yes, there are lots of those out there.  My home group,
> however, has a strong core that has kept our group solidly grounded in
> AA principles.  We believe that the Steps mean what they say...no
> exceptions.  We believe in the Traditions...no exceptions and autonomy
> is no excuse to break them.  And we are active in service, trying to
> exact some change through the structure and you bet it gets frustrating.
>    The way we have achieved this at my home group is through strong
> sponsorship.  The environment of our meetings is not conducive to
> outside issues such as drugs or therapy.  They are solution oriented.
>  Visitors have tried to crack us but we don't budge.  They will either
> do AA with us or go somewhere else.  We are solidly united on this.
> This take a lot of guts sometimes but it is worth it.  I have found
> that when established in a solid group like this, folks are more
> willing to listen to problems we perceive in AA without them calling
> us a bunch of kooks.
>    We just had the SW Regional Trustee in town this weekend for a
> grilling session.  He wants the Big Book price reduced to our cost to
> print it.  He wants the elimination of all "feel good" literature such
> as pamphlets and Living Sober gone.  He has pissed a lot of folks off
> up there in NY.  I'm damned proud of his efforts and support him all
> the way.
>    I guess what I'm saying is the key to making folks more aware of
> the craziness that sometimes comes from GSO is to establish
> credibility first.  Otherwise, we just become kooky people with long
> rants on a keyboard somewhere.  And to establish such credibility
> takes a lot of commitment and work.  Just my thoughts.
>                                                 Bill
>
>
> --- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "John C." <vikingjunior@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Greg,
> >
> >   I just had to respond because what you wrote is sooo real.
> Unfortunately I myself have fell out with many people who I call
> friends because of what you exactly described. I'm sometimes viewed as
> bashing AA. It's been my experience that most if not all have no clue
> what the Service Manual is or even own one. They barely even know what
> the traditions are. I have found that most just don't want to believe
> or even hear it. It's like am talking in some other language.
> >
> >   I have even left a BB meeting that I help start because of the
> stubbornness on the groups part to even look at the pages on top of
> pages of proof I have offered to make INFORMED group conscious.
> >
> >   In my experience the real problem with trying to better inform
> members of AA of the doings of AAWS inc. is that most are just like
> the big cats in AAWS where there was no spiritual experience needed
> for sobriety. When this kind of sobriety is achieved then the steps,
> traditions and concepts become a waste of paper to them. The BB makes
> no sense to them either while on the other hand books like Living
> Sober makes alot of sense.When this kind of sobriety is achieved then
> the steps, traditions and concepts become a waste of paper to them.
> The BB makes no sense to them either while on the other hand books
> like Living Sober makes alot of sense.
> >
> >   It's also my experience that most people who had a spiritual
> experience as a result of these steps are usually the only ones who
> might not be contempt prior to investigation when it comes to AAWS inc.
> >
> >   Greg there is a world of ignorance within AA and honestly if you
> find a way to communicate this information without being viewed as a
> AA basher then please let me know.
> >
> >   Personally I barely even go to AA meetings anymore as far as am
> concerned these hard drinkers have taken over most of AA and have
> distorted the message so bad that I get sick to my stomach to sit
> there and listen to it and trying to convey the AA message in it's
> original form has become to controversial and I saw no good coming out
> of it. I also have found that AA has become a place for high class
> alcoholics, it's hard to offer the 12 steps to a guy who still has
> money in the bank, a car in the garage and wife at home cooking.
> >
> >    I do have my institution commitments where I usually find the
> cream of the crop alcoholics who were just like me. They say AA was
> originally for low bottom drunks and it should of stayed that way, we
> should of had NO meetings and just continue to take the message into
> hospitals and asylums.
> >
> >   LOL I was sitting in a AA meeting the other day and the chair
> person preceded to spend 15 minutes reading all the dances and other
> non AA crap but if you say something they will whip out the " each
> group is autonomous" tradition, they know that tradition real well.
> >
> >    Maybe we should stop trying to save AA and just let in crumble so
> we can start over. Greg I wish you the best.
> >
> >                                                            John C.
> >
> > thecarrierboys <Greg@> wrote:
> >   Hi Everybody,
> >
> > I am a garden variety drunk.  How can I convey these important facts
> > I am learning here at GSO Watch concerning the government of AAWS Inc.
> > to other drunks without losing them when I open my mouth? I really
> > need to keep it simple for myself,in order to inform another drunk who
> > is as brain impaired as me, and who loves AA and all of the "BEST"
> > principles that it is "SUPPOSED"  to stand for.
> > I think I understand the article two changes in relation to the power
> > that it gives AAWS in litigation over copyrights and how the
> > conference is a rubber stamp of GSO, GSB which "is" AAWS Inc. and not
> > part of AA. But when I quote parts of the General Warranties of
> > Concept Twelve of The General Service Manual which is Conference
> > approved literature for North America but not Mexico since the Article
> > 2 change of the Conference Charter in 79' or 87',people don't have any
> > clue as to what I am talking about except that I am "attacking" our AA
> > (See, I lost myself again.)
> > My head hurts because I am unable to translate all of this into a
> > simple  statement that will get/keep the attention of those I need to
> > inform.
> >
> > Please help me to keep it simple, somehow!! I am not a lawyer and
> > neither are most of our beloved fellowship, but when it comes to
> > "bullshit", we know it when we step in it!! Help me to help more of
> > our friends to "step in" the bullshit of AAWS Inc. so that our beloved
> > fellowship isn't lost from within.
> >
> > With love and in service, Greg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >     Visit your group "GSOwatch" on the web.
> >
> >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  GSOwatch-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/347 - Release Date: 5/24/2006
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/347 - Release Date: 5/24/2006
>

Greg,
    The ways that the truth is rejected are many, but the most popular is to
"shoot the messenger". If you want to inform (truthfully) the group
'conscience', then be ready to get 'shot'. It's not so bad if you have good
friends and a purpose in life. I find the bullets bounce off, and make a
funny noise doing it.
    I think it is a mistake (for me) to make this MO my primary purpose. I
must spend 50 times as much of my energy 'doing' AA. Then I take some time
for MO. Sometimes the difference between the MO people and the AAWS
apologists is very narrow. Some have power, others want it and would use it
the same, taking away other people's choices. It is dangerous business.
    The first thing I try to do is remind myself that it is not my job to
force my understandings on anyone else. It is my job to speak the truth as I
understand it, without forcing it down any AA member's throat.
    I like to keep it simple and I love to do a whole argument using only
AAWS literature. An example: Read them the Seventh Tradition. Read Bill's
deal in the Service manual about money made on AA literature not being
profit, but a contribution to GSO. Then ask, "If we sell literature outside
AA, aren't we accepting outside contributions? (The answer may never come
out of them but the squirming will.)
    Another: Read Warranty Five and Six from the Service Manual. Read Elaine
McDowell's Address from the 2004 Conference Report where she states that
they spent $227,000 to sue "the individual in Germany". Ask how we can
follow those Concepts and still sue anyone, for any reason what-so-ever?
(Squirming again, usually followed by accusations against your loyalty and
your mother.)
    Then I like to smile and walk away. Someone that observed the dialog
will come up to you later and ask for more info.
    One brick at a time, God's time, not mine.
                                                                            
    G



----- Original Message -----
From: "thecarrierboys" <Greg@...>
To: <GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:43 PM
Subject: [GSOwatch] My Head Hurts


Hi Everybody,

I am a garden variety drunk.  How can I convey these important facts
I am learning here at GSO Watch concerning the government of AAWS Inc.
to other drunks without losing them when I open my mouth? I really
need to keep it simple for myself,in order to inform another drunk who
is as brain impaired as me, and who loves AA and all of the "BEST"
principles that it is "SUPPOSED"  to stand for.
I think I understand the article two changes in relation to the power
that it gives AAWS in litigation over copyrights and how the
conference is a rubber stamp of GSO, GSB which "is" AAWS Inc. and not
part of AA. But when I quote parts of the General Warranties of
Concept Twelve of The General Service Manual which is Conference
approved literature for North America but not Mexico since the Article
2 change of the Conference Charter in 79' or 87',people don't have any
clue as to what I am talking about except that I am "attacking" our AA
(See, I lost myself again.)
My head hurts because I am unable to translate all of this into a
simple  statement that will get/keep the attention of those I need to
inform.

Please help me to keep it simple, somehow!! I am not a lawyer and
neither are most of our beloved fellowship, but when it comes to
"bullshit", we know it when we step in it!! Help me to help more of
our friends to "step in" the bullshit of AAWS Inc. so that our beloved
fellowship isn't lost from within.

With love and in service, Greg








Yahoo! Groups Links









--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.7.0/345 - Release Date: 5/22/2006



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/347 - Release Date: 5/24/2006

Greg,
    The ways that the truth is rejected are many, but the most popular is to
"shoot the messenger". If you want to inform (truthfully) the group
'conscience', then be ready to get 'shot'. It's not so bad if you have good
friends and a purpose in life. I find the bullets bounce off, and make a
funny noise doing it.
    I think it is a mistake (for me) to make this MO my primary purpose. I
must spend 50 times as much of my energy 'doing' AA. Then I take some time
for MO. Sometimes the difference between the MO people and the AAWS
apologists is very narrow. Some have power, others want it and would use it
the same, taking away other people's choices. It is dangerous business.
    The first thing I try to do is remind myself that it is not my job to
force my understandings on anyone else. It is my job to speak the truth as I
understand it, without forcing it down any AA member's throat.
    I like to keep it simple and I love to do a whole argument using only
AAWS literature. An example: Read them the Seventh Tradition. Read Bill's
deal in the Service manual about money made on AA literature not being
profit, but a contribution to GSO. Then ask, "If we sell literature outside
AA, aren't we accepting outside contributions? (The answer may never come
out of them but the squirming will.)
    Another: Read Warranty Five and Six from the Service Manual. Read Elaine
McDowell's Address from the 2004 Conference Report where she states that
they spent $227,000 to sue "the individual in Germany". Ask how we can
follow those Concepts and still sue anyone, for any reason what-so-ever?
(Squirming again, usually followed by accusations against your loyalty and
your mother.)
    Then I like to smile and walk away. Someone that observed the dialog
will come up to you later and ask for more info.
    One brick at a time, God's time, not mine.
                                                                            
    G



----- Original Message -----
From: "thecarrierboys" <Greg@...>
To: <GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:43 PM
Subject: [GSOwatch] My Head Hurts


Hi Everybody,

I am a garden variety drunk.  How can I convey these important facts
I am learning here at GSO Watch concerning the government of AAWS Inc.
to other drunks without losing them when I open my mouth? I really
need to keep it simple for myself,in order to inform another drunk who
is as brain impaired as me, and who loves AA and all of the "BEST"
principles that it is "SUPPOSED"  to stand for.
I think I understand the article two changes in relation to the power
that it gives AAWS in litigation over copyrights and how the
conference is a rubber stamp of GSO, GSB which "is" AAWS Inc. and not
part of AA. But when I quote parts of the General Warranties of
Concept Twelve of The General Service Manual which is Conference
approved literature for North America but not Mexico since the Article
2 change of the Conference Charter in 79' or 87',people don't have any
clue as to what I am talking about except that I am "attacking" our AA
(See, I lost myself again.)
My head hurts because I am unable to translate all of this into a
simple  statement that will get/keep the attention of those I need to
inform.

Please help me to keep it simple, somehow!! I am not a lawyer and
neither are most of our beloved fellowship, but when it comes to
"bullshit", we know it when we step in it!! Help me to help more of
our friends to "step in" the bullshit of AAWS Inc. so that our beloved
fellowship isn't lost from within.

With love and in service, Greg








Yahoo! Groups Links









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----- Original Message -----

From: Gary Becktell

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:08 PM

Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] Re: My Head Hurts

Bill,
    I have talked to the SW Regional Trustee several times and agree that he
says he is against literature profits and much of the AAWS Literature.
Unfortunately the only solution he has offered is for the Groups to send so
much money that they won't need lit profits to do all they want to do. So I
don't see the knight in shining armor thing. The groups, for various
reasons, are not going to more than double their contributions and the last
time they did reach the desired amount AAWS just raised their budget and we
were back to huge lit profits to support everything they are doing.
    In my Home Group, District and Area, if we can't afford to do something
we don't just start a business and make enough money to do it. We do without
until the Seventh Tradition provides what we need to do more.

    Here is a good project for you Bill, if you would be interested. Last
year AAWS fired a whole bunch of employees, trying to save money. In that
same period and since, has the travel budget decreased and by how much. (%)
How much $ is spent each year by the Trustees and managers to travel and
stay in hotels and eat? I know that in the past this budget has been huge. I
personally think it may be way out of line with who we are. Why are Class A
Trustees being allowed to carry the AA message? We have real alcoholics up
there. It's not like we need professionals to spend our money to go where
alcoholics already are carrying the message.
    At any rate, I am wondering if the GSB is cutting the parts of the
budget that effect them personally. Could you find out for me?

                                                                            
                G

----- Original Message -----

From: thecarrierboys

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 7:43 PM

Subject: [GSOwatch] My Head Hurts

Hi Everybody,

I am a garden variety drunk.  How can I convey these important facts
I am learning here at GSO Watch concerning the government of AAWS Inc.
to other drunks without losing them when I open my mouth? I really
need to keep it simple for myself,in order to inform another drunk who
is as brain impaired as me, and who loves AA and all of the "BEST"
principles that it is "SUPPOSED"  to stand for.
I think I understand the article two changes in relation to the power
that it gives AAWS in litigation over copyrights and how the
conference is a rubber stamp of GSO, GSB which "is" AAWS Inc. and not
part of AA. But when I quote parts of the General Warranties of
Concept Twelve of The General Service Manual which is Conference
approved literature for North America but not Mexico since the Article
2 change of the Conference Charter in 79' or 87',people don't have any
clue as to what I am talking about except that I am "attacking" our AA
(See, I lost myself again.)
My head hurts because I am unable to translate all of this into a
simple  statement that will get/keep the attention of those I need to
inform.

Please help me to keep it simple, somehow!! I am not a lawyer and
neither are most of our beloved fellowship, but when it comes to
"bullshit", we know it when we step in it!! Help me to help more of
our friends to "step in" the bullshit of AAWS Inc. so that our beloved
fellowship isn't lost from within.

With love and in service, Greg

Bill,
     I have talked to the SW Regional Trustee several times and agree that he
says he is against literature profits and much of the AAWS Literature.
Unfortunately the only solution he has offered is for the Groups to send so
much money that they won't need lit profits to do all they want to do. So I
don't see the knight in shining armor thing. The groups, for various
reasons, are not going to more than double their contributions and the last
time they did reach the desired amount AAWS just raised their budget and we
were back to huge lit profits to support everything they are doing.
     In my Home Group, District and Area, if we can't afford to do something
we don't just start a business and make enough money to do it. We do without
until the Seventh Tradition provides what we need to do more.

     Here is a good project for you Bill, if you would be interested. Last
year AAWS fired a whole bunch of employees, trying to save money. In that
same period and since, has the travel budget decreased and by how much. (%)
How much $ is spent each year by the Trustees and managers to travel and
stay in hotels and eat? I know that in the past this budget has been huge. I
personally think it may be way out of line with who we are. Why are Class A
Trustees being allowed to carry the AA message? We have real alcoholics up
there. It's not like we need professionals to spend our money to go where
alcoholics already are carrying the message.
     At any rate, I am wondering if the GSB is cutting the parts of the
budget that effect them personally. Could you find out for me?


                 G




----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill" <bbfreeaa@...>
To: <GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:30 AM
Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: My Head Hurts


Hi John,
    As I read your post I thought of a couple of comments.  First off,
on your comment " most are just like the big cats in AAWS where there
was no spiritual experience needed for sobriety." is not true for
everyone at GSO.  I know several who are appalled at the ignorance of
our principles.  They are dedicated Big Book folks and one of them
tried to get rid of "Living Sober" as conference approved literature.
  They fight the good fight every day.  Yes, there are some who I
wonder if they really drank the way I did.
    As far as leaving groups because they don't talk AA or follow
principles, yes, there are lots of those out there.  My home group,
however, has a strong core that has kept our group solidly grounded in
AA principles.  We believe that the Steps mean what they say...no
exceptions.  We believe in the Traditions...no exceptions and autonomy
is no excuse to break them.  And we are active in service, trying to
exact some change through the structure and you bet it gets frustrating.
    The way we have achieved this at my home group is through strong
sponsorship.  The environment of our meetings is not conducive to
outside issues such as drugs or therapy.  They are solution oriented.
  Visitors have tried to crack us but we don't budge.  They will either
do AA with us or go somewhere else.  We are solidly united on this.
This take a lot of guts sometimes but it is worth it.  I have found
that when established in a solid group like this, folks are more
willing to listen to problems we perceive in AA without them calling
us a bunch of kooks.
    We just had the SW Regional Trustee in town this weekend for a
grilling session.  He wants the Big Book price reduced to our cost to
print it.  He wants the elimination of all "feel good" literature such
as pamphlets and Living Sober gone.  He has pissed a lot of folks off
up there in NY.  I'm damned proud of his efforts and support him all
the way.
    I guess what I'm saying is the key to making folks more aware of
the craziness that sometimes comes from GSO is to establish
credibility first.  Otherwise, we just become kooky people with long
rants on a keyboard somewhere.  And to establish such credibility
takes a lot of commitment and work.  Just my thoughts.
                                                 Bill


--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "John C." <vikingjunior@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
>   I just had to respond because what you wrote is sooo real.
Unfortunately I myself have fell out with many people who I call
friends because of what you exactly described. I'm sometimes viewed as
bashing AA. It's been my experience that most if not all have no clue
what the Service Manual is or even own one. They barely even know what
the traditions are. I have found that most just don't want to believe
or even hear it. It's like am talking in some other language.
>
>   I have even left a BB meeting that I help start because of the
stubbornness on the groups part to even look at the pages on top of
pages of proof I have offered to make INFORMED group conscious.
>
>   In my experience the real problem with trying to better inform
members of AA of the doings of AAWS inc. is that most are just like
the big cats in AAWS where there was no spiritual experience needed
for sobriety. When this kind of sobriety is achieved then the steps,
traditions and concepts become a waste of paper to them. The BB makes
no sense to them either while on the other hand books like Living
Sober makes alot of sense.When this kind of sobriety is achieved then
the steps, traditions and concepts become a waste of paper to them.
The BB makes no sense to them either while on the other hand books
like Living Sober makes alot of sense.
>
>   It's also my experience that most people who had a spiritual
experience as a result of these steps are usually the only ones who
might not be contempt prior to investigation when it comes to AAWS inc.
>
>   Greg there is a world of ignorance within AA and honestly if you
find a way to communicate this information without being viewed as a
AA basher then please let me know.
>
>   Personally I barely even go to AA meetings anymore as far as am
concerned these hard drinkers have taken over most of AA and have
distorted the message so bad that I get sick to my stomach to sit
there and listen to it and trying to convey the AA message in it's
original form has become to controversial and I saw no good coming out
of it. I also have found that AA has become a place for high class
alcoholics, it's hard to offer the 12 steps to a guy who still has
money in the bank, a car in the garage and wife at home cooking.
>
>    I do have my institution commitments where I usually find the
cream of the crop alcoholics who were just like me. They say AA was
originally for low bottom drunks and it should of stayed that way, we
should of had NO meetings and just continue to take the message into
hospitals and asylums.
>
>   LOL I was sitting in a AA meeting the other day and the chair
person preceded to spend 15 minutes reading all the dances and other
non AA crap but if you say something they will whip out the " each
group is autonomous" tradition, they know that tradition real well.
>
>    Maybe we should stop trying to save AA and just let in crumble so
we can start over. Greg I wish you the best.
>
>                                                            John C.
>
> thecarrierboys <Greg@...> wrote:
>   Hi Everybody,
>
> I am a garden variety drunk.  How can I convey these important facts
> I am learning here at GSO Watch concerning the government of AAWS Inc.
> to other drunks without losing them when I open my mouth? I really
> need to keep it simple for myself,in order to inform another drunk who
> is as brain impaired as me, and who loves AA and all of the "BEST"
> principles that it is "SUPPOSED"  to stand for.
> I think I understand the article two changes in relation to the power
> that it gives AAWS in litigation over copyrights and how the
> conference is a rubber stamp of GSO, GSB which "is" AAWS Inc. and not
> part of AA. But when I quote parts of the General Warranties of
> Concept Twelve of The General Service Manual which is Conference
> approved literature for North America but not Mexico since the Article
> 2 change of the Conference Charter in 79' or 87',people don't have any
> clue as to what I am talking about except that I am "attacking" our AA
> (See, I lost myself again.)
> My head hurts because I am unable to translate all of this into a
> simple  statement that will get/keep the attention of those I need to
> inform.
>
> Please help me to keep it simple, somehow!! I am not a lawyer and
> neither are most of our beloved fellowship, but when it comes to
> "bullshit", we know it when we step in it!! Help me to help more of
> our friends to "step in" the bullshit of AAWS Inc. so that our beloved
> fellowship isn't lost from within.
>
> With love and in service, Greg
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>     Visit your group "GSOwatch" on the web.
>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  GSOwatch-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>









Yahoo! Groups Links










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Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/347 - Release Date: 5/24/2006

Greg,
     The ways that the truth is rejected are many, but the most popular is to
"shoot the messenger". If you want to inform (truthfully) the group
'conscience', then be ready to get 'shot'. It's not so bad if you have good
friends and a purpose in life. I find the bullets bounce off, and make a
funny noise doing it.
     I think it is a mistake (for me) to make this MO my primary purpose. I
must spend 50 times as much of my energy 'doing' AA. Then I take some time
for MO. Sometimes the difference between the MO people and the AAWS
apologists is very narrow. Some have power, others want it and would use it
the same, taking away other people's choices. It is dangerous business.
     The first thing I try to do is remind myself that it is not my job to
force my understandings on anyone else. It is my job to speak the truth as I
understand it, without forcing it down any AA member's throat.
     I like to keep it simple and I love to do a whole argument using only
AAWS literature. An example: Read them the Seventh Tradition. Read Bill's
deal in the Service manual about money made on AA literature not being
profit, but a contribution to GSO. Then ask, "If we sell literature outside
AA, aren't we accepting outside contributions? (The answer may never come
out of them but the squirming will.)
     Another: Read Warranty Five and Six from the Service Manual. Read Elaine
McDowell's Address from the 2004 Conference Report where she states that
they spent $227,000 to sue "the individual in Germany". Ask how we can
follow those Concepts and still sue anyone, for any reason what-so-ever?
(Squirming again, usually followed by accusations against your loyalty and
your mother.)
     Then I like to smile and walk away. Someone that observed the dialog
will come up to you later and ask for more info.
     One brick at a time, God's time, not mine.

     G



----- Original Message -----
From: "thecarrierboys" <Greg@...>
To: <GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:43 PM
Subject: [GSOwatch] My Head Hurts


Hi Everybody,

  I am a garden variety drunk.  How can I convey these important facts
I am learning here at GSO Watch concerning the government of AAWS Inc.
to other drunks without losing them when I open my mouth? I really
need to keep it simple for myself,in order to inform another drunk who
is as brain impaired as me, and who loves AA and all of the "BEST"
principles that it is "SUPPOSED"  to stand for.
  I think I understand the article two changes in relation to the power
that it gives AAWS in litigation over copyrights and how the
conference is a rubber stamp of GSO, GSB which "is" AAWS Inc. and not
part of AA. But when I quote parts of the General Warranties of
Concept Twelve of The General Service Manual which is Conference
approved literature for North America but not Mexico since the Article
2 change of the Conference Charter in 79' or 87',people don't have any
clue as to what I am talking about except that I am "attacking" our AA
(See, I lost myself again.)
  My head hurts because I am unable to translate all of this into a
simple  statement that will get/keep the attention of those I need to
inform.

  Please help me to keep it simple, somehow!! I am not a lawyer and
neither are most of our beloved fellowship, but when it comes to
"bullshit", we know it when we step in it!! Help me to help more of
our friends to "step in" the bullshit of AAWS Inc. so that our beloved
fellowship isn't lost from within.

  With love and in service, Greg








Yahoo! Groups Links









--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.7.0/345 - Release Date: 5/22/2006



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/347 - Release Date: 5/24/2006

Hi John,
    As I read your post I thought of a couple of comments.  First off,
on your comment " most are just like the big cats in AAWS where there
was no spiritual experience needed for sobriety." is not true for
everyone at GSO.  I know several who are appalled at the ignorance of
our principles.  They are dedicated Big Book folks and one of them
tried to get rid of "Living Sober" as conference approved literature.
  They fight the good fight every day.  Yes, there are some who I
wonder if they really drank the way I did.
    As far as leaving groups because they don't talk AA or follow
principles, yes, there are lots of those out there.  My home group,
however, has a strong core that has kept our group solidly grounded in
AA principles.  We believe that the Steps mean what they say...no
exceptions.  We believe in the Traditions...no exceptions and autonomy
is no excuse to break them.  And we are active in service, trying to
exact some change through the structure and you bet it gets frustrating.
    The way we have achieved this at my home group is through strong
sponsorship.  The environment of our meetings is not conducive to
outside issues such as drugs or therapy.  They are solution oriented.
  Visitors have tried to crack us but we don't budge.  They will either
do AA with us or go somewhere else.  We are solidly united on this.
This take a lot of guts sometimes but it is worth it.  I have found
that when established in a solid group like this, folks are more
willing to listen to problems we perceive in AA without them calling
us a bunch of kooks.
    We just had the SW Regional Trustee in town this weekend for a
grilling session.  He wants the Big Book price reduced to our cost to
print it.  He wants the elimination of all "feel good" literature such
as pamphlets and Living Sober gone.  He has pissed a lot of folks off
up there in NY.  I'm damned proud of his efforts and support him all
the way.
    I guess what I'm saying is the key to making folks more aware of
the craziness that sometimes comes from GSO is to establish
credibility first.  Otherwise, we just become kooky people with long
rants on a keyboard somewhere.  And to establish such credibility
takes a lot of commitment and work.  Just my thoughts.
                                                 Bill


--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "John C." <vikingjunior@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
>   I just had to respond because what you wrote is sooo real.
Unfortunately I myself have fell out with many people who I call
friends because of what you exactly described. I'm sometimes viewed as
bashing AA. It's been my experience that most if not all have no clue
what the Service Manual is or even own one. They barely even know what
the traditions are. I have found that most just don't want to believe
or even hear it. It's like am talking in some other language.
>
>   I have even left a BB meeting that I help start because of the
stubbornness on the groups part to even look at the pages on top of
pages of proof I have offered to make INFORMED group conscious.
>
>   In my experience the real problem with trying to better inform
members of AA of the doings of AAWS inc. is that most are just like
the big cats in AAWS where there was no spiritual experience needed
for sobriety. When this kind of sobriety is achieved then the steps,
traditions and concepts become a waste of paper to them. The BB makes
no sense to them either while on the other hand books like Living
Sober makes alot of sense.When this kind of sobriety is achieved then
the steps, traditions and concepts become a waste of paper to them.
The BB makes no sense to them either while on the other hand books
like Living Sober makes alot of sense.
>
>   It's also my experience that most people who had a spiritual
experience as a result of these steps are usually the only ones who
might not be contempt prior to investigation when it comes to AAWS inc.
>
>   Greg there is a world of ignorance within AA and honestly if you
find a way to communicate this information without being viewed as a
AA basher then please let me know.
>
>   Personally I barely even go to AA meetings anymore as far as am
concerned these hard drinkers have taken over most of AA and have
distorted the message so bad that I get sick to my stomach to sit
there and listen to it and trying to convey the AA message in it's
original form has become to controversial and I saw no good coming out
of it. I also have found that AA has become a place for high class
alcoholics, it's hard to offer the 12 steps to a guy who still has
money in the bank, a car in the garage and wife at home cooking.
>
>    I do have my institution commitments where I usually find the
cream of the crop alcoholics who were just like me. They say AA was
originally for low bottom drunks and it should of stayed that way, we
should of had NO meetings and just continue to take the message into
hospitals and asylums.
>
>   LOL I was sitting in a AA meeting the other day and the chair
person preceded to spend 15 minutes reading all the dances and other
non AA crap but if you say something they will whip out the " each
group is autonomous" tradition, they know that tradition real well.
>
>    Maybe we should stop trying to save AA and just let in crumble so
we can start over. Greg I wish you the best.
>
>                                                            John C.
>
> thecarrierboys <Greg@...> wrote:
>   Hi Everybody,
>
> I am a garden variety drunk.  How can I convey these important facts
> I am learning here at GSO Watch concerning the government of AAWS Inc.
> to other drunks without losing them when I open my mouth? I really
> need to keep it simple for myself,in order to inform another drunk who
> is as brain impaired as me, and who loves AA and all of the "BEST"
> principles that it is "SUPPOSED"  to stand for.
> I think I understand the article two changes in relation to the power
> that it gives AAWS in litigation over copyrights and how the
> conference is a rubber stamp of GSO, GSB which "is" AAWS Inc. and not
> part of AA. But when I quote parts of the General Warranties of
> Concept Twelve of The General Service Manual which is Conference
> approved literature for North America but not Mexico since the Article
> 2 change of the Conference Charter in 79' or 87',people don't have any
> clue as to what I am talking about except that I am "attacking" our AA
> (See, I lost myself again.)
> My head hurts because I am unable to translate all of this into a
> simple  statement that will get/keep the attention of those I need to
> inform.
>
> Please help me to keep it simple, somehow!! I am not a lawyer and
> neither are most of our beloved fellowship, but when it comes to
> "bullshit", we know it when we step in it!! Help me to help more of
> our friends to "step in" the bullshit of AAWS Inc. so that our beloved
> fellowship isn't lost from within.
>
> With love and in service, Greg
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>     Visit your group "GSOwatch" on the web.
>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  GSOwatch-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>

Hi Everybody,

I am a garden variety drunk.  How can I convey these important facts
I am learning here at GSO Watch concerning the government of AAWS Inc.
to other drunks without losing them when I open my mouth? I really
need to keep it simple for myself,in order to inform another drunk who
is as brain impaired as me, and who loves AA and all of the "BEST"
principles that it is "SUPPOSED"  to stand for.
I think I understand the article two changes in relation to the power
that it gives AAWS in litigation over copyrights and how the
conference is a rubber stamp of GSO, GSB which "is" AAWS Inc. and not
part of AA. But when I quote parts of the General Warranties of
Concept Twelve of The General Service Manual which is Conference
approved literature for North America but not Mexico since the Article
2 change of the Conference Charter in 79' or 87',people don't have any
clue as to what I am talking about except that I am "attacking" our AA
(See, I lost myself again.)
My head hurts because I am unable to translate all of this into a
simple  statement that will get/keep the attention of those I need to
inform.

Please help me to keep it simple, somehow!! I am not a lawyer and
neither are most of our beloved fellowship, but when it comes to
"bullshit", we know it when we step in it!! Help me to help more of
our friends to "step in" the bullshit of AAWS Inc. so that our beloved
fellowship isn't lost from within.

With love and in service, Greg