GSOwatch : Messages : 1444-1473 of 7156

> I do not think an endeavor to "educate the fellowship" is a wise thing
> to attempt - such an activity would be a lecture.


Education does not mean lecturing.

I do a lot of consulting work with organizations.  Since I do not have
punative power to force anyone to do anything, I must instead rely
upon the power of facts so that others realize it is in their best
interests to pursue a different path.

Which was the point of my original suggestion...that we need to create
new and expanded means of distributing those facts to the fellowship.


.

#1472

From: "Sherry C. Hartsell" <hartsell@...>
Date: Fri Dec 1, 2006 4:21 am
Subject: RE: Re: If you want change you need a simple message

sherry_c_h

Offline

“a roving workshop, and a newsletter “

I TOO would be interested in any material you have found useful in such an effort.

Sherry c.h.

-----Original Message-----
From: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mbrandfssr
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:34 PM
To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: If you want change you need a simple message

--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis" <gratefuldennis@...> wrote:
>
> >
> mailings, lots of letter writing, on and on. I personally have been
involved > with others in a roving workshop, and a newsletter that had
a mailing of > hundreds across the country,

Tell me more about this roving workshop. What did it involve and
where did you conduct these workshops?

I do a lot of seminars/workshps around the various steps and would
welcome the thought of putting together some info sessions for our
local GSRs

#1471

From: "mbrandfssr" <MBrandFSSR@...>
Date: Fri Dec 1, 2006 2:33 am
Subject: Re: If you want change you need a simple message

mbrandfssr

Offline

--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis" <gratefuldennis@...> wrote:
>
> >
> mailings, lots of letter writing, on and on. I personally have been
involved > with others in a roving workshop, and a newsletter that had
a mailing of > hundreds across the country,

Tell me more about this roving workshop.  What did it involve and
where did you conduct these workshops?

I do a lot of seminars/workshps around the various steps and would
welcome the thought of putting together some info sessions for our
local GSRs

#1470

From: "Dennis" <gratefuldennis@...>
Date: Fri Dec 1, 2006 12:06 am
Subject: Re: Lectures

gratefuldenn...

Offline

When I am at a Big Book study and our old home group was like Linda�s book study, I don�t just read the book but share my experience with it. That is a major part of my A.A. experience so not to share it would be dishonest. What has driven out newcomers and even oldtimers is sharing experiences not related to A.A. not those sharing from our main text that outlines our program of recovery. As far as I am concerned if it is not in the Book then it is not A.A. The example our little group set was helping people fine sobriety which was equal to the other 40 groups in town all put together from our little group.

Peace,

Dennis M.

----- Original Message -----

From: johngillen10509

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 1:12 PM

Subject: [GSOwatch] Lectures

I do not think an endeavor to "educate the fellowship" is a wise thing
to attempt - such an activity would be a lecture.

I set an example for 20-30 AA members/attendees every day. My only
message is my example - if I am not present within an AA meeting -
there is no example/no message. Words are meaningless unless verified
by example.

I live in a very small town of about 2,000 including all the various
minorities. I am a member of a minority race in my hometown. We have
one gas station, and the nearest traffic light is more than 20 miles
to the south. My neighborhood is on an island - there are no cross
"roads" - only small neighborhoods. There is about 20 miles of road to
the northwest that dead ends.

There is no place to hide (for long), and everyone knows just about
everything - our main pastime is observing each other - there is very
little privacy, folks do not have heat or airconditioning - the
windows are always open.

I haven't always lived this way - used to be in small town NY in AA
groups of 100 or more. Some of the individual examples were a bit more
exciting, but we really did not know the children, spouses, parents,
and extended families; nor did we work side by side with each other on
the job and in non-AA community affairs.

The uselessness of lectures is obvious in a small town. We have
examples that blaze like fireworks - and we know that alcoholism
strikes randomly, as does sobriety and repeated attempts to drink like
a gentleman/lady. The effects are more obvious than any lecture -
everyone knows - no matter what minority - we all know, and we all suffer.

The big world out there is no different - it just takes larger
statistics to provide the experiantial lectures. The slaughter on the
highways, the vacant looks of the medicated, the crime. Folks in AA
don't need lectures --- if we merely set an example of speaking only
of our actual experiance - avoiding what could/might/should and quit
giving advice "for the newcomer" and "this is what I was told" ---
people will listen.

There is no need to steal time from an AA meeting of experiance
stregnth and hope to read or quote from any text for any reason. Those
60 minutes are so precious - and so many of them are sacraficed on the
alter of ritual to please someone who would rather zone out while
someone else is reading from a book.

Reading/quoting is a far, far cry from sharing our experiance stregnth
and hope.... and it is almost always wrapped in a lecture.

What to do? When chairing a meeting - simply skip over the reading
stuff and minimize the announcements. Yes, someone might object, and
yes that might be uncomfortable - and your action and response will be
your example.

J

#1469

From: "Bill" <bbfreeaa@...>
Date: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:35 pm
Subject: Re: Lectures

bbfreeaa

Offline

Mmmmmmmmmm, create a vaccuum and something will fill the void
eventually.  I've been (unfortunatly) to too many meetings where
nothing was EVER read from the Big Book.  They usually disintegrate
into "theories", how bad my day was, my inner child or some other
nonsense.  I find the Book to be a great anchor to avoid 60 minutes of
babble and nonsense.  Just my take on it.
Bill


--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "johngillen10509"
<johngillen10509@...> wrote:
>
> I do not think an endeavor to "educate the fellowship" is a wise thing
> to attempt - such an activity would be a lecture.
>
> I set an example for 20-30 AA members/attendees every day. My only
> message is my example - if I am not present within an AA meeting -
> there is no example/no message. Words are meaningless unless verified
> by example.
>
> I live in a very small town of about 2,000 including all the various
> minorities. I am a member of a minority race in my hometown. We have
> one gas station, and the nearest traffic light is more than 20 miles
> to the south. My neighborhood is on an island - there are no cross
> "roads" - only small neighborhoods. There is about 20 miles of road to
> the northwest that dead ends.
>
> There is no place to hide (for long), and everyone knows just about
> everything - our main pastime is observing each other - there is very
> little privacy, folks do not have heat or airconditioning - the
> windows are always open.
>
> I haven't always lived this way - used to be in small town NY in AA
> groups of 100 or more. Some of the individual examples were a bit more
> exciting, but we really did not know the children, spouses, parents,
> and extended families; nor did we work side by side with each other on
> the job and in non-AA community affairs.
>
> The uselessness of lectures is obvious in a small town. We have
> examples that blaze like fireworks - and we know that alcoholism
> strikes randomly, as does sobriety and repeated attempts to drink like
> a gentleman/lady. The effects are more obvious than any lecture -
> everyone knows - no matter what minority - we all know, and we all
suffer.
>
> The big world out there is no different - it just takes larger
> statistics to provide the experiantial lectures. The slaughter on the
> highways, the vacant looks of the medicated, the crime. Folks in AA
> don't need lectures --- if we merely set an example of speaking only
> of our actual experiance - avoiding what could/might/should and quit
> giving advice "for the newcomer" and "this is what I was told" ---
> people will listen.
>
> There is no need to steal time from an AA meeting of experiance
> stregnth and hope to read or quote from any text for any reason. Those
> 60 minutes are so precious - and so many of them are sacraficed on the
> alter of ritual to please someone who would rather zone out while
> someone else is reading from a book.
>
> Reading/quoting is a far, far cry from sharing our experiance stregnth
> and hope.... and it is almost always wrapped in a lecture.
>
> What to do? When chairing a meeting - simply skip over the reading
> stuff and minimize the announcements. Yes, someone might object, and
> yes that might be uncomfortable - and your action and response will be
> your example.
>
> J
>

#1468

From: "johngillen10509" <johngillen10509@...>
Date: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:12 pm
Subject: Lectures

johngillen10509

Online Now

I do not think an endeavor to "educate the fellowship" is a wise thing
to attempt - such an activity would be a lecture.

I set an example for 20-30 AA members/attendees every day. My only
message is my example - if I am not present within an AA meeting -
there is no example/no message. Words are meaningless unless verified
by example.

I live in a very small town of about 2,000 including all the various
minorities. I am a member of a minority race in my hometown. We have
one gas station, and the nearest traffic light is more than 20 miles
to the south. My neighborhood is on an island - there are no cross
"roads" - only small neighborhoods. There is about 20 miles of road to
the northwest that dead ends.

There is no place to hide (for long), and everyone knows just about
everything - our main pastime is observing each other - there is very
little privacy, folks do not have heat or airconditioning - the
windows are always open.

I haven't always lived this way - used to be in small town NY in AA
groups of 100 or more. Some of the individual examples were a bit more
exciting, but we really did not know the children, spouses, parents,
and extended families; nor did we work side by side with each other on
the job and in non-AA community affairs.

The uselessness of lectures is obvious in a small town. We have
examples that blaze like fireworks - and we know that alcoholism
strikes randomly, as does sobriety and repeated attempts to drink like
a gentleman/lady. The effects are more obvious than any lecture -
everyone knows - no matter what minority - we all know, and we all suffer.

The big world out there is no different - it just takes larger
statistics to provide the experiantial lectures. The slaughter on the
highways, the vacant looks of the medicated, the crime. Folks in AA
don't need lectures --- if we merely set an example of speaking only
of our actual experiance - avoiding what could/might/should and quit
giving advice "for the newcomer" and "this is what I was told" ---
people will listen.

There is no need to steal time from an AA meeting of experiance
stregnth and hope to read or quote from any text for any reason. Those
60 minutes are so precious - and so many of them are sacraficed on the
alter of ritual to please someone who would rather zone out while
someone else is reading from a book.

Reading/quoting is a far, far cry from sharing our experiance stregnth
and hope.... and it is almost always wrapped in a lecture.

What to do? When chairing a meeting - simply skip over the reading
stuff and minimize the announcements. Yes, someone might object, and
yes that might be uncomfortable - and your action and response will be
your example.

J

#1467

From: "Linda" <soberlady@...>
Date: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:11 pm
Subject: December 2006 Grapevine is out

sobrlady

Offline

Hi gang,

This is just a brief note to say the new Grapevine is out. The did print my protest, but they left off a good bit of it.

Here is the text I sent them, and if you'd like, you can compare it to the actual printed text.

The editors did leave in the main gist of my discussion, and for that I give them credit. I really didn't think they would.

"Hi,

The person who wrote the article, I believe, skewed the meaning of the phrase "Meeting Makers Make It" that is in general use in meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous today. While I believe that Stephen T., of Harrisburg, PA was sincere in his discussion, it is NOT the usual intent of that expression. I believe his experience was out of the ordinary. Most existing meetings have people who step up to the plate when the need arises. I could be wrong; I have been wrong before.

The way it is used here in our town in California, the implication is that going to lots of meetings (those that say this also say they go to 3 or more meetings a day), and not drinking between meetings is how the AA program works. These people are sponsoring others and telling them that, as well; to the detriment of the REAL alcoholic, who will NOT be able to stay sober on meetings alone. He may stop drinking, but will inevitably be "struck drunk" using the "Meeting Makers Make It" mantra. Absence of alcohol will increase the discomfort of the REAL alkie, not improve it. We drink because we must, and absence of alcohol only exacerbates the mental obsession. I believe the people who use this statement to newcomers and/or at meeting level may not be real alcoholics, as defined by the Big Book on page 30; "We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals - usually brief - were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness."

The real AA sponsor, or member for that matter, will encourage the newcomer to become involved in getting meetings up and running, i.e. making the coffee, setting up chairs and tables, cleaning up the room after the meeting, serve as greeter at the door, chair and secretary meetings as the newcomer grows and changes. It is NOT as a result of "Meeting Makers Make It". They will get the new person involved in reading the Big Book, frequently sitting with them to explain how the book applies to recovering from Alcoholism. The sponsor will also work with the newcomer to take the steps of Alcoholics Anonymous according to the directions found in the Big Book.

I have come to learn that the ONLY program that is AA is that found between the title page and The Doctor's Nightmare in the Book called Alcoholics Anonymous. THAT is the message that needs to be shared at AA meetings. That we need to get a sponsor who has taken all 12 steps FROM that Big Book, and has a sponsor who has done the same. The sponsor can be a person who steps forward when a new person comes into the meeting and offers to guide the newbie until a permanent sponsor can be found, if that doesn't turn out to be the initial contact.

This email began as an indignant response to the story "Meeting Makers Make It", however it has become a discussion about how meetings make the newcomer aware that there is a real solution to their problems, and brings hope to those that seek an answer to their dilemma.

The ONLY thing that "Meeting Makers Make" is meetings."

AA Hugs,
Linda E.,
Recovered by God's Grace
dos 6/22/76
http://aabutte-glenn.org
"The truth never harmed anyone - but it frequently hurts when it conflicts with our old ideas. The truth will set you free - right after it makes you madder than hell."

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#1466

From: "Linda" <soberlady@...>
Date: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:03 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Information required

sobrlady

Offline

I've got a rep as something of a renegade. Until 3 weeks ago when I rotated out, I led a Big Book Study. In that study we read the 5th Chapter AND the traditions from the BB, and while the 7th basket is going around, we go around the room and introduce ourselves. THEN we read, and study the book, a line, a word, a sentence, and no more than a paragraph at a time. It takes us a year and a half to get through the first 164 plus the roman numeral pages, and we all come out with a better understanding. It is a true discussion/study since we read and comment w/o all the "who are you's" and "what are you's" that happens in regular meetings in between "shares".

I'm a renegade because I insist we read and study from the book only, not pieces of paper that contains the same information, sometimes typed wrong by a well-meaning member.

Also know as a renegade because we had group consciences for 6 years or more in order to totally convert this meeting to a REAL study. For a long time it was a "Living Sober" group, and we read and studied the book "Living Sober" which bored most of us out of our minds. Then it became an either/or Big Book or Living Sober and most of chose to read randomly from the book. There was no continuity, or sense of context during this time. And of course, every 3 or 4 months calling for group conscience. Part of the problem was a lonnnnng time sober guy, who by his own admission had never done the steps from the book, and believed all we needed was "Living Sober" to maintain sobriety. This guy was well-loved and highly thought of. He DID help a lot of people. He wouldn't sponsor, since he hadn't done the steps, but would help newbies find a step sponsor, for which I give him true acknowledgement. I loved him as well. BUT he was a thorn. He'd get wind of the group conscience and bring a boat-load of other members and vote the Study down every time.

Then, another long time sober guy became the meeting leader, and a small "steering committee" got together and created a meeting format and called for a group conscience, and this time even though Louie was there, it passed. To the everlasting credit of the group. Now we are a real book study, with an ever-increasing membership.

Neither this town, nor the entire district 15 which comprises 2 counties, had never seen a REAL book study.

It is the kind of study I participated in for almost 20 years in my former area, before we moved here. I am proud to call it my home group.

My point in this long missive? To say that time, patience, group consciences, real caring and love of the fellowship (the REAL fellowship of the heart) is what is needed. This area was going the way of "Meeting Makers Make It" sobriety, and consequently hardly any newcomers were taking this thing seriously, and of course, not staying sober. "Swinging door AA" as some call it.

This group doesn't support GSO/GSB/AAWS at ALL. Our money stays local. It is where it is best utilized, also by group conscience.

AA Hugs,
Linda E.,
Recovered by God's Grace
dos 6/22/76
http://soberlady.com
http://aabutte-glenn.org
http://aastories.com
http://aaonline.org (live aa meetings around the clock)
http://anonpress.org/bb/ (the Big Book online)
"The truth never harmed anyone - but it frequently hurts when it conflicts
with our old ideas. The truth will set you free - right after it makes you
madder than hell."

----- Original Message -----

From: "mbrandfssr" <MBrandFSSR@...>

To: <GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 5:35 AM

Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: Information required

> --- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, Antara <antaraaaa@...> wrote:
>>
>> Dennis: Just for fun I used to say something from the book and not
> mention it was from the book and then sit back and watch people
> disagree with it.
>>
>
> I once watched a meeting start late because the chairperson couldn't
> find a copy of How It Works...despite the fact he had three copies of
> the Big Book sitting right there with him at the head table.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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#1465

From: Antara <antaraaaa@...>
Date: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: Re: If you want change you need a simple message

antaraaaa

Offline

I do put a lot of effort into it. I talk to as many people as I can, I show the websites ( which are a HUGE thankless effort --unpaid work done by a dedicated few here, and with their own money from what I gather) and I explain as much as I can to those willing to listen. Sometimes I am just an obnoxious BIOTCH about it too as this seems to get people to listen more attently, lol. I don't take the fallout personally. I am a member of a tiny lil group where we don't buy literature from the places where the problems begin..and we can tell ya why.

Oh, and I pray a lot about it. Have to or I would go mental....

Truth is I have always favoured a crazy " Tie yerself in chains to the doors of AAWS and make a big stink " course of action.......but what then? I am not really all that visionary in this. Far as I can see, most people still hold that AAWS and AA are one and the same.......and as soon as we begin the long n arduous process of sharing information, you can almost see the "TRAITOR" sign flash over thier foreheads.

Seems to me many here have dedicated their lives to this effort of steady and consistant information gathering and sharing. Again: what would you have people do?

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#1464

From: "Dennis" <gratefuldennis@...>
Date: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: Re: If you want change you need a simple message

gratefuldenn...

Offline

>Yet, I don't see a lot of effort being put into educating the fellowship at large whay they should give a sh!t about any of this.<

This website is to educate the fellowship. We are members of the fellowship. Many here have been involved with area newsletters, general service, mailings, lots of letter writing, on and on. I personally have been involved with others in a roving workshop, and a newsletter that had a mailing of hundreds across the country, the AA BBSG book project, and with a few others mailing with snail mail very large envelopes filled with facts about the issues we were discussing at the time. I even went to NY, Germany, Mexico and Dallas to discuss what we can do and to visit the other side of the litigations. Some here have websites with lots of information, some travel speaking about the minority opinion. As the recent post shows many have went to Groups and Intergroups, Districts, Areas, Regional Forums, and Conferences. We also mailed numerous open letters to Delegates, Trustees, Areas, and Central Intergroup offices. The results were about fifty-fifty from one open letter mailing with some asking us for more info and the others telling us to go jump in a lake.

Any new ideas are certainly welcomed. There is also the fact that Mae brought up and I do relate with things like getting verbally shouted at with profanity because I was passing out information on the litigations at an Area Assembly. Shortly after that they cancelled the Corrections Committee that I was Chair of without discussion or vote.

Peace,

Dennis M.

----- Original Message -----

From: mbrandfssr

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 5:42 AM

Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: If you want change you need a simple message

--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "bruce johanson" <bajohanson@...> wrote:
>
> No offense but I AM rather insulted! Not only am I disseminator of
dangerous information, anti AA and speak multitudes of AA blasphemy
but now it is my fault others don't give a rats ass and don't want to
read anything more than what pleases them in the Sunday Funnies.
>

I suspect your reply is tongue-in-cheek, but it does lead to a larger
issue.

I admire a lot of the people who post here. Their knowledge and
comprehension of the larger issues facing AA is impressive. Yet, I
don't see a lot of effort being put into educating the fellowship at
large whay they should give a sh!t about any of this.

#1463

From: mae <mae56lindacan@...>
Date: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:10 pm
Subject: Re: Simple Suggestion

mae56lindacan

Offline

I love it!

mae

----- Original Message ----
From: Greg <Greg@...>
To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 10:48:26 PM
Subject: [GSOwatch] Simple Suggestion

Hi Everbody,

What if the GSB made an announcement to all of AA that the Big Book contains the "recovery program"?

( This shouldn't create any controversy. )

Then the next month, the GSB could announce to AA that, "The General Service Board of Alcoholics Anonymous claims no proprietary right in the recovery program, for these twelve steps, as all spiritual truths, may now be regarded as available to all mankind."

I'm not a lawyer, but I think this means that the GSB doesn't "own" the recovery program(big book?) or the twelve steps. Does Available=free? ( Lot's of controversy here!)

Hey wait a minute! The second "announcement" is from the By-laws of the GSB,which were adopted in1957.

Oh well. I thought it was simple. Simple but not easy.

What do you think?

Greg

Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

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#1462

From: mae <mae56lindacan@...>
Date: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:09 pm
Subject: Re: Re: If you want change you need a simple message

mae56lindacan

Offline

because when I do, I am yelled at, accused of being a liar, and my sobriety is questioned. People do not like to have their belief system tampered with. What we need to do is to present the facts, without emotional involvement and allow people to make up their own minds.

mae

----- Original Message ----
From: mbrandfssr <MBrandFSSR@...>
To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:42:40 AM
Subject: [GSOwatch] Re: If you want change you need a simple message

--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroup s.com, "bruce johanson" <bajohanson@ ...> wrote:
>
> No offense but I AM rather insulted! Not only am I disseminator of
dangerous information, anti AA and speak multitudes of AA blasphemy
but now it is my fault others don't give a rats ass and don't want to
read anything more than what pleases them in the Sunday Funnies.
>

I suspect your reply is tongue-in-cheek, but it does lead to a larger
issue.

I admire a lot of the people who post here. Their knowledge and
comprehension of the larger issues facing AA is impressive. Yet, I
don't see a lot of effort being put into educating the fellowship at
large whay they should give a sh!t about any of this.

Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

#1461

From: "mbrandfssr" <MBrandFSSR@...>
Date: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:42 pm
Subject: Re: If you want change you need a simple message

mbrandfssr

Offline

--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, "bruce johanson" <bajohanson@...> wrote:
>
> No offense but I AM rather insulted! Not only am I disseminator of
dangerous information, anti AA and speak multitudes of AA blasphemy
but now it is my fault others don't give a rats ass and don't want to
read anything more than what pleases them in the Sunday Funnies.
>

I suspect your reply is tongue-in-cheek, but it does lead to a larger
issue.

I admire a lot of the people who post here.  Their knowledge and
comprehension of the larger issues facing AA is impressive.  Yet, I
don't see a lot of effort being put into educating the fellowship at
large whay they should give a sh!t about any of this.

#1460

From: "mbrandfssr" <MBrandFSSR@...>
Date: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:35 pm
Subject: Re: Information required

mbrandfssr

Offline

--- In GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com, Antara <antaraaaa@...> wrote:
>
> Dennis: Just for fun I used to say something from the book and not
mention it was from the book and then sit back and watch people
disagree with it.
>

I once watched a meeting start late because the chairperson couldn't
find a copy of How It Works...despite the fact he had three copies of
the Big Book sitting right there with him at the head table.

.

#1459

From: Antara <antaraaaa@...>
Date: Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:15 pm
Subject: Re: re: Information required

antaraaaa

Offline

Dennis: Just for fun I used to say something from the book and not mention it was from the book and then sit back and watch people disagree with it.

.....roflmao..........

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#1458

From: "Dennis" <gratefuldennis@...>
Date: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:50 pm
Subject: Re: re: Information required

gratefuldenn...

Offline

Hi Linda;

I wouldn’t be able to resist telling that fellow alky that I am very sorry to tell you this but as I was pulling into the parking lot I accidentally ran over your disease doing pushups out there.

I also used to hear people say that the farther they are away from their last drink the closer they are to the next one. I would then say the further I get from my last drink the more opportunity I have to work on myself, help others and build a closer relationship with God who then allows me to be even farther away from my last drink.

Just for fun I used to say something from the book and not mention it was from the book and then sit back and watch people disagree with it.

Peace,

Dennis M.

----- Original Message -----

From: Linda

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:31 PM

Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] re: Information required

Evening all,

Reminds me of an experience I have every time this certain fella is at the same meeting I am. I begin my sharing with that line from my sigtag, i.e., I am Linda, Alcoholic, Recovered by God's Grace and the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous." then I share on whatever is au courant at the time, my personal ES&H - at the end of the meeting I am alternately cussed out, made amends to, and/or told I disagree totally with what you say about being recovered by this certain fella. He is entitled to his opinion about my share, of course, but obviously doesn't share the experience of being recovered. His disease, he says, is out in the parking lot doing push-ups. Yikes!

I just smile and move on.

It's weird tho!

AA Hugs,
Linda E.,
Recovered by God's Grace
dos 6/22/76
http://soberlady.com
http://aabutte-glenn.org
http://aastories.com
http://aaonline.org (live aa meetings around the clock)
http://anonpress.org/bb/ (the Big Book online)
"The truth never harmed anyone - but it frequently hurts when it conflicts
with our old ideas. The truth will set you free - right after it makes you
madder than hell."

----- Original Message -----

From: Kenny

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 3:29 PM

Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] re: Information required

Evening Mae and all,

Having shared the similar situation more than once I have to remind myself that God doesn't place a lit candle in a lighted room.

Kenny

-------Original Message-------

From: mae

Date: 11/28/2006 9:01:13 AM

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [GSOwatch] re: Information required

Good morning all,

First of all, I would like to thank everyone for stepping up to the plate and eagerly providing the information I was looking for. Unfortunately, for this instance, it was to no avail.

I attended my monthly Friday night meeting and I was treated as devil incarnate. The women in attendance were not willing and open to listen to anything I had to say. I was yelled at, accused of being a liar, and even my sobriety was questioned. I know some time ago we had a discussion on these boards about challenging peoples� beliefs. I was witness to a dramatic outburst because I talked about New York and what had transpired. I liken the situation to one of someone telling a wee child that Santa Claus does not exist.

But with all that happened, I discovered an important fact. The promises really do come true.

Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

I am amazed at my response to these women. Calm and assertive. (Norm thank you.) I truly understood God was with me that night.

I am grateful to this group. Thank you for being who you are. This may seem like an endless battle, however one step at a time. We plant seeds. If it wasn�t for your encouragement and support (and answers to my endless questions,) I would have walked away from the doors of AA.

With gratitude,

mae

Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

#1457

From: "Sherry C. Hartsell" <hartsell@...>
Date: Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:59 am
Subject: RE: re: Information required

sherry_c_h

Offline

Linda, the fellow you speak of in your group---has clones all over the country J, and thank God for them.

I am now content to let those folks who contend they are “RECOVERING” not “RECOVERED” have it their way, besides, they no doubt know their actual condition better than we do, and they demonstrate that with their contention.

Sherry C. H., alive by God’s grace, and sober since 12-28-67 because A.A. works very well, for which old sherry is as grateful as he knows how to be.

-----Original Message-----
From: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 11:32 PM
To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] re: Information required

Evening all,

Reminds me of an experience I have every time this certain fella is at the same meeting I am. I begin my sharing with that line from my sigtag, i.e., I am Linda, Alcoholic, Recovered by God's Grace and the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous." then I share on whatever is au courant at the time, my personal ES&H - at the end of the meeting I am alternately cussed out, made amends to, and/or told I disagree totally with what you say about being recovered by this certain fella. He is entitled to his opinion about my share, of course, but obviously doesn't share the experience of being recovered. His disease, he says, is out in the parking lot doing push-ups. Yikes!

I just smile and move on.

It's weird tho!

----- Original Message -----

From: Kenny

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 3:29 PM

Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] re: Information required

Evening Mae and all,

Having shared the similar situation more than once I have to remind myself that God doesn't place a lit candle in a lighted room.

Kenny

-------Original Message-------

From: mae

Date: 11/28/2006 9:01:13 AM

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [GSOwatch] re: Information required

Good morning all,

First of all, I would like to thank everyone for stepping up to the plate and eagerly providing the information I was looking for. Unfortunately, for this instance, it was to no avail.

I attended my monthly Friday night meeting and I was treated as devil incarnate. The women in attendance were not willing and open to listen to anything I had to say. I was yelled at, accused of being a liar, and even my sobriety was questioned. I know some time ago we had a discussion on these boards about challenging peoplesʼ beliefs. I was witness to a dramatic outburst because I talked about New York and what had transpired. I liken the situation to one of someone telling a wee child that Santa Claus does not exist.

But with all that happened, I discovered an important fact. The promises really do come true.

Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

I am amazed at my response to these women. Calm and assertive. (Norm thank you.) I truly understood God was with me that night.

I am grateful to this group. Thank you for being who you are. This may seem like an endless battle, however one step at a time. We plant seeds. If it wasnʼt for your encouragement and support (and answers to my endless questions,) I would have walked away from the doors of AA.

With gratitude,

mae

Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

#1456

From: "bruce johanson" <bajohanson@...>
Date: Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:02 am
Subject: RE: re: Information required

pagan50

Offline

Mae,

Ahh, yes! When all else fails call into play ones sobriety. Been there with that experience! (roflmao) Yes, if you disagree you “obviously” are on a dry drunk as you are “obviously” restless, irritable and discontent! And too, there is always that person that will read or quote from the Big Book “we have ceased fighting everything and everyone.”

The best of your email to me is your self realization. That gets to them more than anything this being rather calm and assertive as they are flailing around. Way to go girl!!!! JJJ And as one guy asked me “how the hell do you even stay sober?” to which I replied “I don’t and God does it for me!” And then his face got even redder.

This kind of situation is almost a “rite of passage” to this group! (hehe)

Perhaps, maybe, just one person will start to consider what you brought for in a week or two or even a month from now? That is progress.

Bruce Johanson

From: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mae
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:55 AM
To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [GSOwatch] re: Information required

Good morning all,

First of all, I would like to thank everyone for stepping up to the plate and eagerly providing the information I was looking for. Unfortunately, for this instance, it was to no avail.

I attended my monthly Friday night meeting and I was treated as devil incarnate. The women in attendance were not willing and open to listen to anything I had to say. I was yelled at, accused of being a liar, and even my sobriety was questioned. I know some time ago we had a discussion on these boards about challenging peoples� beliefs. I was witness to a dramatic outburst because I talked about New York and what had transpired. I liken the situation to one of someone telling a wee child that Santa Claus does not exist.

But with all that happened, I discovered an important fact. The promises really do come true.

Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

I am amazed at my response to these women. Calm and assertive. (Norm thank you.) I truly understood God was with me that night.

I am grateful to this group. Thank you for being who you are. This may seem like an endless battle, however one step at a time. We plant seeds. If it wasn�t for your encouragement and support (and answers to my endless questions,) I would have walked away from the doors of AA.

With gratitude,

mae

Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

__________ NOD32 1887 (20061128) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

#1455

From: "Linda" <soberlady@...>
Date: Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:31 am
Subject: Re: re: Information required

sobrlady

Offline

Evening all,

I just smile and move on.

It's weird tho!

----- Original Message -----

From: Kenny

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 3:29 PM

Subject: Re: [GSOwatch] re: Information required

Evening Mae and all,

Having shared the similar situation more than once I have to remind myself that God doesn't place a lit candle in a lighted room.

Kenny

-------Original Message-------

From: mae

Date: 11/28/2006 9:01:13 AM

To: GSOwatch@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [GSOwatch] re: Information required

Good morning all,

First of all, I would like to thank everyone for stepping up to the plate and eagerly providing the information I was looking for. Unfortunately, for this instance, it was to no avail.

I attended my monthly Friday night meeting and I was treated as devil incarnate. The women in attendance were not willing and open to listen to anything I had to say. I was yelled at, accused of being a liar, and even my sobriety was questioned. I know some time ago we had a discussion on these boards about challenging peoples� beliefs. I was witness to a dramatic outburst because I talked about New York and what had transpired. I liken the situation to one of someone telling a wee child that Santa Claus does not exist.

But with all that happened, I discovered an important fact. The promises really do come true.

Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

I am amazed at my response to these women. Calm and assertive. (Norm thank you.) I truly understood God was with me that night.

I am grateful to this group. Thank you for being who you are. This may seem like an endless battle, however one step at a time. We plant seeds. If it wasn�t for your encouragement and support (and answers to my endless questions,) I would have walked away from the doors of AA.

With gratitude,

mae

Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.