Hi dancdiva!

Thank you for asking. I walked around the park where I live in a state of
shock for almost twenty minutes, then I decided to go into the laundry room so I
  could sit down. I collapsed before I got to the chair. All I had time to
take  with me when evicted was a little sack with a few clothes and toothpaste
thrown  in it, so I kept thinking, "How am I going to survive off of THIS? Where
do I GO  now? How will I get to a shelter if I can even find one? If I can't,
where will  I sleep tonight? I need to find a box or something to hide in.
What if I get  raped or beaten? I am going to lose all of my possessions!"
Thoughts like this  raced through my mind. I broke down and cried.

Then I said, "Well, I can't sit here and cry all day." I talked with  the
managers and got nowhere. They don't have a phone for tenants/former tenants  to
use except for a pay phone, so I spent all the quarters I had calling a
volunteer lawyer program, a resource center, etc. No one could help. I  realized
my
quarters were all gone. I became panicky.

I then thought of this one neighbor who always flirts with me, knocked on
his door, and asked if I could use his phone. It was humiliating because,
putting aside the fact I didn't even have time to bathe this morning, with all 
the
calls I had to make I ended up spending the entire day at his house. I
reached out and took his Mother's hand very briefly. I guess I really needed a 
hug
or something because I am not the type to initiate touching people I don't
know well. She smiled, which meant a lot to me. They are both really kind
people.

Finally, my cousin popped into my head. I thought, "Well, if he still works
on the fire department maybe he can tell me what to do." I had no idea which
unit he works at, and was absolutely floored by how fast they located him.
What  meant the world to me was how he knew just what to say and do (I am so
accustomed to the people I call/write letters to acting like, "I don't know what
to tell you. Good luck with it."). He was just super, though, and I thought,
"Someone is going to help me! Thank you, God!"

Terri

In a message dated 2/26/2008 10:04:34 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
dancdiva123@... writes:


terri..........where  were u ? during the time u had to leave ur home  / !
were u out in  the streets? iv been so worried !!!



“I don't understand why Cupid was  chosen to represent Valentine's Day.
When I think about romance, the last  thing on my mind is a
short, furtive toddler coming at me with a  weapon!”
~ Anonymous



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

terri..........where were u ? during the time u had to leave ur home  / !
were u out in the streets? iv been so worried !!!




In a message dated 2/26/2008 6:55:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
britthalo@... writes:

Terri wrote: Out of sheer desperation, I called a cousin of  mine who
works on the fire department and he literally came to the rescue!  I
mean, he went above and beyond. He came up with the funds for my  rent
and all late/legal fees (I have to pay him back, of course),  and
personally drove it down to the office of the regional manager,  and
talked her into letting me back in my home tonight!
>
> I  COULD KISS HIS FEET!







**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is a marvelous letter to all of us.  Thank you so much for writing it.  I'm
going to keep it handy and read it often.  It's such a good reminder that our
focus MUST remain on ourselves.  In the longrun, it's just not all that much
about "them", whether they meet enough criteria or not to be diagnosed with a
"title", to what degree "they" are mentally ill, or just plain "mean" and
egotistical; as far as I can research, the effects are about the same and even
the "treatment" is a matter of "doing the hard work of changing" regardless of
the "condition" or "disorder".    I'm coming more and more to the conclusion
that the best thing for us as partners/spouses AND them, as "Empathy-challenged"
people is for us to get healthy, inside- out, and develop that realization that
we do indeed "get what we settle for"....and stop settling!  Just stop settling!
And, accept whatever that stance leads to in our relationships. I'm so glad that
you held out to reach this brighter day,
  and that you now feel more like your real self again.  Funny, I was thinking
about that very thing on my way home today; how light and cheerful my
personality is apart from him.
   Be well.
   TruthSeekerForGood

Lola <loladucks@...> wrote:
           I have been out & away from BPD boyfriend of 3 1/2 years for 3 years
now. I
remember how broken, with my emotions in shreds & how unsalvagable I felt within
my self to move forward when it was over between us for the last time. It felt a
easier
& a more welcome idea would be, if I could just lay down & never wake.

A once happy go lucky, vibrant, always a smile on my face & quick to laugh
Woman. I
became a face in the mirror I could hardly reconize. Face red & puffy from
crying &
tense from worry, about what may lay ahead in each day. Walking on eggshells &
trying my best to run 20 feet ahead, to keep his path clear.

He kicked me to curb just as I was just getting into therapy & books with the
words
verbal abuse started showing up at our house. And today I say "bless his heart".
It
gave me the opportunity to repair & heal those broken & dented parts of me that
attracted this type of abusive partner to me. And stay far longer than any
emotionally
healthy person would do.

I first saw a woman on Oprah near the end of our relationship who spoke of just
the
sort of man I was involved with. I ran out that afternoon & got her book.
Reading it in
one sitting & highlighting parts of every page.

Just recieving my first computer I very quickly found BPD central. I remember
being at
DMV waiting for my # to be called as I sat with a highlighter maker & a print
out of
symtoms of BPD. By the time my # was called & I had gone down the list. There
was
more yellow on the paper than white.

That list was a real eye opener for me. I was clueless & truley thought if I
could just
get us thru this bad part with him. We could get on to the happy part of the
story &
he would so appreciate me when all was said & done. Only the bad, crazy parts
started & continued just a few days into our union & I think the only thing I
didn't
check on that symtom list was "if he kicked the dog".

That list allowed me to let go of my dream of ever having a healthy thriving
relationship with him. I thought I was the broken one. The one who couldn't get
it
right. When I was given a name for the circular conversations we kept having &
all
the very same mind f*** games he was playing me with all along. It was wild how
being informed freed me up in so many ways.

That was the first part of my healing & for me a biggy. To get informed about
what
was really going on. To be able to let go of falling in love with his potenial
once & for
all. Allow him to drift off, find his own way. Not to dig my heels in even
further &
think to myself "Ohh now he really needs me". His sickness was deep & I could
see
that now.

The second part & the part that has taken nearly as long, as that relationship
lasted.
Was to turn the focus onto me completely. Becoming whole, nurturing self love,
respect & worthyness. All that good stuff that doesn't allow for otherwise.

I found all that good self-love stuff not in one book, video, tape or cd or
workshop.
But in a day in day out, moment to moment of lil' self kindness's towards
myself. My
new made up mantra is "I love myself enough not to allow others not to".

It has been a long journey to this place I now am. And there is no going back
for me.
No more being part of someone elses madness. No more watching & trying to help
someone who is drowning, as thy try & hold my head down. No more hanging out in
a cage who's doors are wide open.

I never know when my light bulbs & most Spiritual moments are going to happen. I
asked God about a year ago "why in the past did I get into such abusive
relationships
& stay so long, when it was clear how unhappy I was"?

My answer came later that day when I popped on the tv just as the movie Thelm &
Louise was just starting. Thelma in reponce to Louise's question about her
unhappy
relationship said "Ya get what you settle for"!!!

Having gone from a victim mentality to accepting my role in staying. I was open
to
hearing the meaning of this stern message. This simple statement told me all I
needed to know to understand all those unhappy moments in the past. And all I
needed to know about creating & being part of a happy future called my life.

It was not about what my Mother, Sister, friend or neighbor 2 blocks down
settled for.
It was what "I" settled for. As each moment. day, week & years passed with him,
it was
what "I" settled for.

I turned off the tv at that point & turned it back on an hour or so later, just
as Louise
was now telling Thema "you get what you settle for" later on in the same movie.
Now
if thats not God/Spirit talking to me I don't know what is!

People are going to be who they choose to be. In every moment we each choose how
to respond to each other. Today when people are off the wall with me (according
to
what I deem off the wall) I simply move away. They made a choice in that moment
,
now I get to make a choice in each moment. I now know "I get what I settle for"
& I
only settle for what feels good. Peace, Lola :}

P.s. Ohh that happy go lucky, vibrant, always a smile on her face, quick to
laugh
Woman...I have been seeing alot more of her lately!






---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Terri wrote: Out of sheer desperation, I called a cousin of mine who
works on the  fire department and he literally came to the rescue! I
mean, he went above and beyond. He came up with the funds for my rent
and all late/legal fees (I  have to pay him back, of course), and
personally drove it down to the office of  the regional manager, and
talked her into letting me back in my  home tonight!
>
> I COULD KISS HIS FEET!
>
> What a nightmare this has all been. I will never go through this
again...
>
wooooohoooooo !!!!!

SEE, KARMA FINALLY FIGURED OUT THAT YOU DESERVE A BREAK !!

Keep trying to contact the supervisors of that program, and make sure
you send a copy to the local newspaper, or at least put a "cc: " at the
bottom of the letter to make them think you did....

Take care of yourself !!

Mary B.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I about had heart failure when the constable pounded on my door and told me
I had 10 minutes to collect my things and "GET OUT!" Then he put a red sticker
  on my door and bolted the lock. I was very lucky I immediately found a
woman's shelter that told me, "We have a mat on the floor. You can use  that,"
because the constable claimed "ALL THE SHELTERS ARE FULL! LOOKS  LIKE YOU GOT A
PROBLEM!"

Long story short, I know here we speak mainly about abusers and not the  good
folks. Well, I do have some good folks in my family but due to lies my Aunt
was telling me about them/them about me, I thought they didn't want anything
to  do with me. So, after severing ties with the abusive ones this left me with
no  family at all.

Out of sheer desperation, I called a cousin of mine who works on the  fire
department and he literally came to the rescue! I mean, he went above  and
beyond. He came up with the funds for my rent and all late/legal fees (I  have
to
pay him back, of course), and personally drove it down to the office of  the
regional manager, and talked her into letting me back in my  home tonight!

I COULD KISS HIS FEET!

What a nightmare this has all been. I will never go through this  again...

Terri


“I don't understand why Cupid  was chosen to represent Valentine's Day.
When I think about romance, the  last thing on my mind is a
short, furtive toddler coming at me with a  weapon!”
~ Anonymous



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for asking. I am so stressed out I feel like I am going to jump out
of my skin, waiting for someone to remove me from the home. What's driving me
bonkers is I can now work full time again, and am trying to do just this, but
have had to spend so much of my days making phone calls, going to apps.,
writing e-mails, etc. to programs, lawyers, and the like in the hopes of 
keeping
a roof over my head that it's interfering with work!  Catch-22.

Terri

In a message dated 2/26/2008 8:58:00 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
megaera@... writes:

How are things with you  right now?






“I don't understand why Cupid was  chosen to represent Valentine's Day.
When I think about romance, the last  thing on my mind is a
short, furtive toddler coming at me with a  weapon!”
~ Anonymous









**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I understand why he may be addicted to his hobbies but he needs to put
your first.  Another thing that's scary is that u say one of his new
hobbies is guns.  He's most likely not gonna use them for decoration
or for his hobbies so you need to run away from him and call the police.


--- In End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com, "equiskr" <Equiskr@...> wrote:
>
> I also forgot to mention that, he refuses to let me sleep on the couch,
> wants to control what I eat, tells me he is the victim in this
> relationship, always speaks fantastic about me to others but never in
> private.  If I do not answer the phone when he calls, then hangs up and
> continues to call one after another, esp if I am on the phone with
> someone else and wants me to get off because he is calling.  Tells me
> he will do something and never get to it, I ask him when and his answer
> is always later.  He does love me, but in a controlling way, unless it
> truly is not love and seems like it is. Last week he clogged the toliet
> and blamed it on me, by saying I was putting paper towels down the
> toliet, which i never did. He is hobby addicted, he goes from
> photography, bicycles, horses, golf, guitar, keeps going from one to
> another, now it is guns and skeet shooting.  I am so so very scared,
> people have told me to get out and I panaic, I am so used to the
> dysfunction and so used to him....thanks again for listening
>

On 25 Feb 2008 09:09:30 -0000, you wrote:

> Posted by: "Terri Methinks" AZTerri@... terrimethinks
>    Date: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:43 pm ((PST))
>
>Contingency fee! That's the term I was looking for. I don't know why
>I can only remember "pro bono."
>
>Terri

How are things with you right now?

--
The little birds sang sweet amid the scene of death and destruction.
                       -- Elisha Hunt Rhodes, 2nd R.I., May 4, 1864

my x an i used both.we had a medator an  attorney................danc~



In a message dated 2/24/2008 10:25:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ewidower@... writes:

One  more question: he has proposed using a divorce mediator rather
> than  an attorney. Have any of you used a divorce mediator? I've
> asked  several people I know about it and I'm not getting any clear
> cut  answers as to the advantages vs disadvantages.
>
> Hanging in  there...
>
> Blessings,
>
> Karin
>







**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have been out & away from BPD boyfriend of 3 1/2 years for 3 years now. I
remember how broken, with my emotions in shreds & how unsalvagable I felt within
my self to move forward when it was over between us for the last time. It felt a
easier
& a more welcome idea would be, if I could just lay down & never wake.

A once happy go lucky, vibrant, always a smile on my face & quick to laugh
Woman. I
became a face in the mirror I could hardly reconize. Face red & puffy from
crying &
tense from worry, about what may lay ahead in each day. Walking on eggshells &
trying my best to run 20 feet ahead, to keep his path clear.

He kicked me to curb just as I was just getting into therapy & books with the
words
verbal abuse started showing up at our house. And today I say "bless his heart".
It
gave me the opportunity to repair & heal those broken & dented parts of me that
attracted this type of abusive partner to me. And stay far longer than any
emotionally
healthy person would do.

I first saw a woman on Oprah near the end of our relationship who spoke of just
the
sort of man I was involved with. I ran out that afternoon & got her book.
Reading it in
one sitting & highlighting parts of every page.

Just recieving my first computer I very quickly found BPD central. I remember
being at
DMV waiting for my # to be called as I sat with a highlighter maker & a print
out of
symtoms of BPD. By the time my # was called & I had gone down the list. There
was
more yellow on the paper than white.

That list was a real eye opener for me. I was clueless & truley thought if I
could just
get us thru this bad part with him. We could get on to the happy part of the
story &
he would so appreciate me when all was said & done. Only the bad, crazy parts
started & continued just a few days into our union & I think the only thing I
didn't
check on that symtom list was "if he kicked the dog".

That list allowed me to let go of my dream of ever having a healthy thriving
relationship with him. I thought I was the broken one. The one who couldn't get
it
right. When I was given a name for the circular conversations we kept having & 
all
the very same mind f*** games he was playing me with all along. It was wild how
being informed freed me up in so many ways.

That was the first part of my healing & for me a biggy. To get informed about
what
was really going on. To be able to let go of falling in love with his potenial
once & for
all. Allow him to drift off, find his own way. Not to dig my heels in even
further &
think to myself "Ohh now he really needs me". His sickness was deep & I could
see
that now.

The second part & the part that has taken  nearly as long, as that relationship
lasted.
Was to turn the focus onto me completely. Becoming whole, nurturing self love,
respect & worthyness. All that good stuff that doesn't allow for otherwise.

I found all that good self-love stuff not in one book, video, tape or cd or
workshop.
But in a day in day out, moment to moment of lil' self kindness's towards
myself. My
new made up mantra is "I love myself enough not to allow others not to".

It has been a long journey to this place I now am. And there is no going back
for me.
No more being part of someone elses madness. No more watching & trying to help
someone who is drowning,  as thy try & hold my head down. No more hanging out in
a cage who's doors are wide open.

I never know when my light bulbs & most Spiritual moments are going to happen. I
asked God about a year ago "why in the past did I get into such abusive
relationships
& stay so long, when it was clear how unhappy I was"?

My answer came later that day when I popped on the tv just as the movie Thelm &
Louise was just starting. Thelma in reponce to Louise's question about her
unhappy
relationship said "Ya get what you settle for"!!!

Having gone from a victim mentality to accepting my role in staying. I was open
to
hearing the meaning of this stern message.  This simple statement told me all I
needed to know to understand all those unhappy moments in the past. And all I
needed to know about creating & being part of a happy future called my life.

It was not about what my Mother, Sister, friend or neighbor 2 blocks down
settled for.
It was what "I" settled for. As each moment. day, week & years passed with him,
it was
what "I" settled for.

I turned off the tv at that point & turned it back on an hour or so later, just
as Louise
was now telling Thema "you get what you settle for" later on in the same movie.
Now
if thats not God/Spirit talking to me I don't know what is!

People are going to be who they choose to be. In every moment we each choose how
to respond to each other. Today when people are off the wall with me (according
to
what I deem off the wall) I simply move away. They made a choice in that moment
,
now I get to make a choice in each moment.  I now know "I get what I settle for"
& I
only settle for what feels good. Peace, Lola :}

P.s. Ohh that happy go lucky, vibrant, always a smile on her face, quick to
laugh
Woman...I have been seeing alot more of her lately!

Whether it is a divorce mediator or an attorney, make sure that you
feel as well represented as him.

My first marriage ended with attorneys, but I think a divorce mediator
would have been fairer, which is perhaps why my ex-wife didn't want
one.  She had far more money to spend than I.  She had four attorneys
to my one and two investigators, too.

So I see the potential advantages of divorce mediation is that I think
it is more difficult for one party to overpower the other with
resources.  I also think the results will be less random than the kind
of stuff that sometimes comes out of courts.

That said, other than looking into it, I have no experience with
divorce mediation.

eW

--- In End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com, "Karin" <kmp1218@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings to all of you!
>
> Again, thank you for all the support you've given me here.
>
> I've realized in the last week or so that my VA is still playing the
> game whether he realizes it or not.  His game is weakening but it's
> still there.
>
> His pleading is beginning to dwindle and I feel like he's giving up.
> I see this as a good thing.  I'm not out to hurt him. I just want to
> be at peace and I've come to believe that I will not experience peace
> while living with him.
>
> He seems truly sorry for "pushing me past my limit" and I can forgive
> him for that though I will no longer allow the situation to
> perpetuate.
>
> One more question: he has proposed using a divorce mediator rather
> than an attorney.  Have any of you used a divorce mediator?  I've
> asked several people I know about it and I'm not getting any clear
> cut answers as to the advantages vs disadvantages.
>
> Hanging in there...
>
> Blessings,
>
> Karin
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com, "Karen" <karenjay59@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Karin,
> >
> > You say he said he had no idea he had pushed you to your
> > limit. That indicates to me that he was fully aware of what it was
> he
> > was doing all the time. He will never change and until he learns
> that
> > when you say no you really mean no, then he will know he can just
> keep
> > pushing until you say yes. Don't do it!!!
> >
> > All of us here who have managed to get away from our VAs know just
> how
> > hard it is to keep saying no in the face of the anger, the
> > name-calling, the tears, the begging, the guilt-inducing
> accusations.
> > But you just have to keep saying it.
> >
> > I'm thinking of you tonight and sending positive energy and love
> your way.
> >
> > Love and Light, Karen.
> >
> > --- In End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com, "Karin" <kmp1218@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi to all,
> > >
> > > I've been logging on here for a few years now - posted once or
> > > twice.  I've been with my VA for over 28 years, married for
> almost
> > > 24. I didn't realize I was being verbally & emotionally abused
> until
> > > about 4 years ago (how does that happen?) but now I reread a
> journal
> > > I started 27 years ago and it's very apparent that it's been
> > > happening since almost day 1.
> > >
> > > My struggle is this: 2 weeks ago (Super Bowl Sunday) my VA blew -
> he
> > > pressed every one of my buttons he could think of and kept at it.
> I
> > > decided then and there that that was it.  The next morning, I
> called
> > > an attorney and by the following Friday had filed for divorce.  I
> > > told my VA 8 days ago and he got a letter informing him of such
> > > action 5 days ago. I had no idea how he'd react and he was
> actually
> > > relatively cool about things. He was a little angry, then
> pleading
> > > some and then practical (well, we'll have to sell this and that
> and
> > > split everything up).
> > >
> > > Now he's started pleading with me to not go through with the
> > > divorce.  He says he'll do ANYTHING to make things right. He says
> > > he'll change. He says he had no idea that he had pushed me to my
> > > limit.  He says he doesn't want to lose me and on and on.
> > >
> > > It took me 28 years to muster up the courage to tell him and now
> I'm
> > > beginning to think twice about it. I know he won't change...I
> know
> > > it! But all this pleading forces me to tell him over and over
> again -
> > > and it's so hard!
> > >
> > > I'm just looking for a little support here - any wise words you
> can
> > > share will be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thank you in advance.
> > >
> >
>

TYPES OF VERBAL/EMOTIONAL ABUSE!

"I would rather be kicked with a foot than be overcome by a loud
voice speaking cruel words."

~Elizabeth Barrett Browning


INTIMIDATION

Intimidation can come through words or actions that threaten or imply
harm or loss. It is designed to control and gain power through fear.

Intimidating statements can include:

You better do as I say or else.
If you don't listen to me, you'll be sorry.
I am an authority figure, so: what I say goes, everyone will believe
what I say about you, no one will listen to what you tell them about
me, etc.
I can make your life hell.

Intimidating actions can include:

Lying to the authorities about you.
Filing false reports about you.
Getting others involved to harrass, suppress, and control you.


COUNTERING AND CORRECTING

Countering shuts down the discussion and opposes or denies the
victim's reality. The abuser argues against the victim's thoughts,
opinions, and reality. By negating his/her views, the abuser feels
he/she is maintaining control and dominance over the victim.

Some countering and correcting statements include:

That never happened.
You just imagined that.
You are telling tales again.
You are always wrong.
That's a stupid way to feel.
What an idiotic thought.
Who cares what you think? You're nothing.


SELECTIVE MEMORY

Abusers may "conveniently forget" or alter the facts. This selective
memory can be used to deny, twist, and rewrite reality (this is
also "crazy-making").

Selective memory is signaled by statements such as:

I don't know what you're talking about.
I never said that.
That's not what happened.
You're making that up.


BELITTLING

Belittling puts down the victim and invalidates his/her opinions or
feelings. Or it may be designed to tell the victim that his/her
concerns or accomplishments are insignificant. Belittling statements
may be patronizing put-downs such as, "Well, that's nice that it
gives you something to do."

Some belittling statements include:

You can't take a joke.
You're too sensitive.
You don't know what you're talking about.
You're making a big deal out of nothing.
You always have to have something to complain about.


ABUSIVE "JOKES"

Put-downs disguised as jokes often refer to gender, race, mental
abilities, or competency.

Some abusive joking can include:

You are a lunatic.
You need a keeper.
What else can you expect from a man/woman?
You couldn't find your head if it wasn't attached.


HOLDING OUT

The abuser who refuses to share themselves with their partner, who
ignores or refuses to listen to him/her, or who refuses to share
information is violating the premise of a relationship. Holding back
emotional support erodes confidence and determination.

Holding out includes refusal to communicate, and statements such as:

There's nothing to talk about.
You wouldn't be interested.
It's none of your business.
I don't have to explain myself to you.


SIDETRACKING AND SHUTTING DOWN

Forcing the discussion off track, shutting it down, or changing the
subject are ways to control and frustrate the conversation. Sometimes
accusing and blaming are used to hijack the discussion and throw the
victim off balance.

Some shutting-down statements are:

You're just trying to have the last word.
I don't want to talk about it anymore.
Just drop it!
Shut up!
I am not interested in a thing you have to say, you're a nobody.
Let's change the subject.


TRANSFERRING BLAME

Many abusers blame their partner for their anger, irritation, or
insecurity. Telling the victim that the abuse is his/her fault
confuses him/her and puts him/her on the defensive. An abuser may
accuse the victim of the very actions done by the abuser him/herself.
(This can be very "crazy-making.")

Some blaming phrases include:

It's all your fault.
You're just trying to pick a fight.
I wouldn't have (fill in the blank)
If you weren't so (fill in the blank).
You made me say/do it.


FAULTFINDING

Most statements that begin with the word "you" or "always/never"
signal abusive faultfinding and criticism.

Faultfinding veiled in help or advice is abusive:

You're truly hopeless/helpless without me.
Let me show you how to do that right.
You should just let me do that since it's over your head.
I always need to make all the decisions around here.


INSULTING AND LABELING

Insulting names and personal "labels" are abusive, as are demeaning
sexual references.

Dingbat, air-head Slut, b*tch, C*cksucker, D*ck Stupid, ugly, fat,
cheap


COMMANDING

When a partner commands or demands instead of respectfully
requesting, he/she denies the worth and independence of the victim.

Commanding/demanding statements include:

Fix me dinner.
Buy me this now.
Do my laundry.
Get off the phone.
Give me sex.


LASHING OUT

Lashing out at someone is never justified. Angry verbal attacks,
yelling, raging, and temper tantrums can be effective ways to
intimidate and control others.

Lost Source

i second this. it's an incredible gift you are giving to your children.  your
strength in doing this, and your putting their needs first, is true parenting in
its purest form.  i wish it had happened for me with my parent(s) because life
would be a lot different now. don't underestimate the power of what you are
doing.  when it seems mundane and hard and lonely, the greatness of it won't be
obvious, but you're halting what would become a tragic situation.  that's real
love.

-----Original Message-----
>From: truthseekerforgood <truthseekerforgood@...>
>Sent: Feb 22, 2008 9:51 PM
>To: End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: {End Verbal Abuse} Re: New member
>
>--- In End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com, "skyenov" <sjs05@...> wrote:
>>Please, please, please stay strong for the sake of your children.
>Read enough of the other post like this one to help you keep an
>objective point of view about abuse and how utterly ridiculous it is
>that we would put up with for one single minute!  As I read your
>horrifying recollections of being in the presence of a MONSTER, I
>found myself getting so heated up and thinking 'this is
>unbelievable'!  Except for one thing, I do believe it because I lived
>it, too; first as a child with an alcoholic father and a loving yet
>weak and frightened Mother who did her best to protect us when he was
>so crazy.  We spent one Christmas Eve at a little cheap motel, my
>Mother, sister, and me because Daddy had threatened to kill us and
>then himself.  My Mother was a saint, and when I was fourteen, she
>finally left him, and we had peace in our little rental house; we
>were so poor, but she sacrificed herself to make sure we had what we
>needed, and our life together was good; she raised us to be loving
>and kind to everyone, like she was; like you are and will do for your
>little ones.  I understand grieving for the "family" that you wanted
>to provide for them; believe me, you and those little ones are FAMILY
>a plenty.  He's a bad, bad risk, and you and your children are worth
>too much to take such risk.  Give him the "gift" of setting him free
>to take the next 5 years to work hard at maturing and becoming a man
>of integrity.  There are so many things he could get involved in that
>would over the next five years grow him up and exhibit authentic
>change...he owes his children proving himself from a distance and in
>other scenarios before he should ever be allowed to come back in to
>their lives as more than an occasional supervised visitor.  Never let
>your guard down as their caretaker, Mom.  I'm only compelled to
>encourage you in this way because I know about the empty, tearful
>promises and the clever ways they have of being so pitiful that you
>feel sorry for them.  Feel sorry for your children, and yourself, and
>I hope that everytime you hear his voice or see his face, you'll
>immediately picture something being violently destroyed at your
>horror!
>   Oh, my second experience was similar to my childhood in emotional
>abuse;it was my marriage, and I was the mother of two trying to
>protect them from Daddy's bad moods and tantrums and monstrous
>temper.  Pretty unbelievable.  I wish I'd left him many years ago.
>   No one should ever have to be afraid of someone who is supposed to
>love and cherish them.
>   My heart goes out to you so much.  Just please remember how truly
>valuable you are.  You deserve so much better and if you give
>yourself the time and space you need, "better" is what you'll
>experience.
>   Thanks for sharing your truth and your wise decision.  I'm proud
>to know you.
>TruthSeekerForGood
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> 6 months ago I left my husband of 3 1/2 years when my daughter was
>1
>> week old & my son 2 1/2. I guess I first thought of it in December
>> when we couldn't get our 2 year old to go to sleep and we were both
>> lying in bed with him and I sugested S let me try it on my own.
>> Suddenly, when up until then it had been a fine evening, S jumped
>> out of our sons bed, went down the hall, and started kicking the
>> baby gate until it went down the stairs.  Our son (P) said what
>> happened.  I was shaking & calmed P down.  After P went to sleep, I
>> went downstairs and said what was that?  He said I control P and
>> don't give him a chance to let him help. I let him know it was not
>> OK to treat me that way. The next week, I asked one of my closest
>> friends what they thought & she said if you want the truth, he is
>> emotionally abusive to you.  Soon after, one evening when we had
>had
>> a good evening and our son was with neighbors, I told him that I
>> wanted to tell him something very seriously.  I sat down next to
>> him, looked him in the eye and said For the first time since I have
>> known you, I do not like you or want to be around you.  If you do
>> not stop kicking things, throwing things, or yelling at me
>> especially in front of P, I will leave you.  There were mixtures of
>> good times and of unexpected bursts of anger all increasing as I
>> became more pregnant.  One evening after he had been drinking, I
>was
>> making P a microwave dinner & tore the wrapper off incorrectly, S
>> threw the wrapper on the floor & asked what the h I was doing?
>> Again, out of nowhere, and making my blood cold & my heart race.  I
>> said stop, do not talk to me that way and please stop drinking.  He
>> went upstairs & I could hear punching, I grabbed P and soon after
>> saw S throwing P's toys - they flew by us, then I saw him come down
>> the stairs with the lower 1/2 of a door he had punched & kicked
>> through it. My heart raced as I ran to the front door & I could not
>> open it. He opened it & through the door onto the front lawn.  I
>ran
>> past him with P, put him in the car seat (barefoot), debated
>> buckling him in & knew I had to & drove away. I went to CVS and
>> bought food for P and socks, then to a friend's house. The next day
>> there were promises of it never happening again and lots of crying
>&
>> hugs.  A month later, P was drinking and so I avoided him. I put P
>> to bed & laid down upstairs with an umbilical walkman - playing
>Bach
>> for my baby to be and read a book.  S came up and had a crazy look
>> in his eye and said Waht do you want?  I said I didn't understand
>> and was tired & please go downstairs & leave me alone. There was a
>> metal ironing board by the bed and he all the sudden slammed his
>> fist on it & it broke in half.  I jumped up and went in the hall to
>> be between him & P's room.  He said Guess what I was going to do
>> instead of that? Then he walked out the door. The next day there
>> were more promises. Then a month before I gave birth, we went to my
>> brother's wedding. The night before for all the festivities, he
>> drank too much & I could not get him to leave. P was tired & in his
>> car seat & I was begging him to leave & finally he did, but I was
>> afraid so said nothing to him. The next evening, he drank too much
>> at the reception. Again, I could not get him to leave & when P was
>> in his car seat & me driving, S was outside the van & I said, I
>want
>> to leave now! It was 11pm & I was exhausted. S got in the car &
>> started banging his fists on the dash & calling me F*ing B* in
>front
>> of our awake son. It lasted for 5 terrifying minutes. Whe I pulled
>> in front of the hotel, my parents pulled behind us. I grabbed P &
>> told my Dad S was being mean. My Dad approached him & when S said a
>> few things to him, my Dad who had no idea P could be like that
>> slammed him against the wall outside & said you do not treat my
>> daughter or grandson like that. P then got in the van & drove away
>> scared of my Dad. My Dad called 911 & P was arrested for DUI, DWI.
>> The next morning, P called over & over again leaving the meanest
>> possible messages. When he sobered up, he apologized & promised to
>> get help. He did get help. I went to meetings with him for 3 weeks.
>> But sober he was still lazy and sometimes mean & I was scared of
>> him. I always left a full bag for P & I in the van in case we
>needed
>> a quick escape & I never told P where I went so I would have a safe
>> place. A week before I gave birth, I was packing (we had planned to
>> move together after the baby was born) and he yelled at me for
>> putting something in the hallway, then went in the room, slammed
>the
>> door & watched TV. I wanted things to be OK & asked him to talk it
>> through, then saw myself 9 3/4 months pregnant luggging things up &
>> down the stairs & said stop. I picked up P from daycare & went to
>my
>> parents. My whole family cam eover & said we will support you
>> leaving him. I promised I would. When we went to the hospital (I
>> needed a c-section), P was upset bc we didn't stop for a Mountain
>> Dew for him and kept talking about himself. But I wanted him there.
>> I loved him and we were having our daughter. Something changed
>after
>> I gave birth. I saw him come into see me complainging about how
>> tired he was from working on the house & how my parents were
>driving
>> him crazy before asking how I was & our new daughter was. When I
>got
>> home, our baby girl was 7 days old & my parents said they would
>> leave. I asked them to stay 1 more night. When P got home from his
>> alcohol recovery meeting, I said I can't do this anymore. He said
>> what? I said us. he couldn't hurt me or our kids with my Dad there.
>> he threw some things downstairs & left. He begged for me to say we
>> would work things out on the phone & threatened suicide. I would
>> have taken him back, but my Dad told me he was an anchor, my 3rd
>> child, all I needed were the clothes on our backs & my children &
>to
>> leave. S called the police to get in the house. The police witnssed
>> his interactions with me & the kids then he left. We packed fast &
>> went to the next state with my parents. That was 6 months ago. In
>> the interim, he has tried everything to get me back & if I were not
>> with my parents I would have gone back. I am so glad I have not. I
>> have met him with the kids and it makes me so sad that we are not a
>> family. I think all the time about the good times and the deep love
>> we had and the wonderful times we shared as a family esp after P
>was
>> born. I have read Codependent No More & it has helped me so much in
>> times where I have put his feelings in front of my own & even my
>> kids. I receive no child support. He has gone into debt by $20,000
>&
>> wants $25,000 when the house sells. He blames me for the debt bc I
>> left him suddenly with no money. Tomorrow he goes to court for the
>> DUI & he partially blames my Dad. I try to make the right decisions
>> for our children in seeing him. I am scared to leave them alone
>with
>> him although he said he has learned & would never let anything
>> happen with them. Iworry my kids will be affected by not having
>> their Dad. Our daughter deprived of a father at a week old. I know
>I
>> did the right think for them. P asks if Daddy ran in the street (it
>> is the worst thing he thinks someone can do) and asks if Daddy is
>> still sad. He asks for his Daddy when the other kids Dads are
>around
>> & I have to fight back tears. I cry every day for what I lost. But
>I
>> look at my daughter & think you never ever had to be hurt by him
>and
>> that's all that matters. I don't know where my strength is coming
>> from, but every day I get the kids ready, take them to daycare,
>> commute 1 1/2 hours to work eadch way, eat dinner as a family, get
>> them ready for bed and love them as hard as I can. I will not stop
>> this path until myself & the kids are out of his emotional harm,
>> which I know will always be there.
>>
>
>

--- In End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com, "skyenov" <sjs05@...> wrote:
>Please, please, please stay strong for the sake of your children.
Read enough of the other post like this one to help you keep an
objective point of view about abuse and how utterly ridiculous it is
that we would put up with for one single minute!  As I read your
horrifying recollections of being in the presence of a MONSTER, I
found myself getting so heated up and thinking 'this is
unbelievable'!  Except for one thing, I do believe it because I lived
it, too; first as a child with an alcoholic father and a loving yet
weak and frightened Mother who did her best to protect us when he was
so crazy.  We spent one Christmas Eve at a little cheap motel, my
Mother, sister, and me because Daddy had threatened to kill us and
then himself.  My Mother was a saint, and when I was fourteen, she
finally left him, and we had peace in our little rental house; we
were so poor, but she sacrificed herself to make sure we had what we
needed, and our life together was good; she raised us to be loving
and kind to everyone, like she was; like you are and will do for your
little ones.  I understand grieving for the "family" that you wanted
to provide for them; believe me, you and those little ones are FAMILY
a plenty.  He's a bad, bad risk, and you and your children are worth
too much to take such risk.  Give him the "gift" of setting him free
to take the next 5 years to work hard at maturing and becoming a man
of integrity.  There are so many things he could get involved in that
would over the next five years grow him up and exhibit authentic
change...he owes his children proving himself from a distance and in
other scenarios before he should ever be allowed to come back in to
their lives as more than an occasional supervised visitor.  Never let
your guard down as their caretaker, Mom.  I'm only compelled to
encourage you in this way because I know about the empty, tearful
promises and the clever ways they have of being so pitiful that you
feel sorry for them.  Feel sorry for your children, and yourself, and
I hope that everytime you hear his voice or see his face, you'll
immediately picture something being violently destroyed at your
horror!
    Oh, my second experience was similar to my childhood in emotional
abuse;it was my marriage, and I was the mother of two trying to
protect them from Daddy's bad moods and tantrums and monstrous
temper.  Pretty unbelievable.  I wish I'd left him many years ago.
    No one should ever have to be afraid of someone who is supposed to
love and cherish them.
    My heart goes out to you so much.  Just please remember how truly
valuable you are.  You deserve so much better and if you give
yourself the time and space you need, "better" is what you'll
experience.
    Thanks for sharing your truth and your wise decision.  I'm proud
to know you.
TruthSeekerForGood













> 6 months ago I left my husband of 3 1/2 years when my daughter was
1
> week old & my son 2 1/2. I guess I first thought of it in December
> when we couldn't get our 2 year old to go to sleep and we were both
> lying in bed with him and I sugested S let me try it on my own.
> Suddenly, when up until then it had been a fine evening, S jumped
> out of our sons bed, went down the hall, and started kicking the
> baby gate until it went down the stairs.  Our son (P) said what
> happened.  I was shaking & calmed P down.  After P went to sleep, I
> went downstairs and said what was that?  He said I control P and
> don't give him a chance to let him help. I let him know it was not
> OK to treat me that way. The next week, I asked one of my closest
> friends what they thought & she said if you want the truth, he is
> emotionally abusive to you.  Soon after, one evening when we had
had
> a good evening and our son was with neighbors, I told him that I
> wanted to tell him something very seriously.  I sat down next to
> him, looked him in the eye and said For the first time since I have
> known you, I do not like you or want to be around you.  If you do
> not stop kicking things, throwing things, or yelling at me
> especially in front of P, I will leave you.  There were mixtures of
> good times and of unexpected bursts of anger all increasing as I
> became more pregnant.  One evening after he had been drinking, I
was
> making P a microwave dinner & tore the wrapper off incorrectly, S
> threw the wrapper on the floor & asked what the h I was doing?
> Again, out of nowhere, and making my blood cold & my heart race.  I
> said stop, do not talk to me that way and please stop drinking.  He
> went upstairs & I could hear punching, I grabbed P and soon after
> saw S throwing P's toys - they flew by us, then I saw him come down
> the stairs with the lower 1/2 of a door he had punched & kicked
> through it. My heart raced as I ran to the front door & I could not
> open it. He opened it & through the door onto the front lawn.  I
ran
> past him with P, put him in the car seat (barefoot), debated
> buckling him in & knew I had to & drove away. I went to CVS and
> bought food for P and socks, then to a friend's house. The next day
> there were promises of it never happening again and lots of crying
&
> hugs.  A month later, P was drinking and so I avoided him. I put P
> to bed & laid down upstairs with an umbilical walkman - playing
Bach
> for my baby to be and read a book.  S came up and had a crazy look
> in his eye and said Waht do you want?  I said I didn't understand
> and was tired & please go downstairs & leave me alone. There was a
> metal ironing board by the bed and he all the sudden slammed his
> fist on it & it broke in half.  I jumped up and went in the hall to
> be between him & P's room.  He said Guess what I was going to do
> instead of that? Then he walked out the door. The next day there
> were more promises. Then a month before I gave birth, we went to my
> brother's wedding. The night before for all the festivities, he
> drank too much & I could not get him to leave. P was tired & in his
> car seat & I was begging him to leave & finally he did, but I was
> afraid so said nothing to him. The next evening, he drank too much
> at the reception. Again, I could not get him to leave & when P was
> in his car seat & me driving, S was outside the van & I said, I
want
> to leave now! It was 11pm & I was exhausted. S got in the car &
> started banging his fists on the dash & calling me F*ing B* in
front
> of our awake son. It lasted for 5 terrifying minutes. Whe I pulled
> in front of the hotel, my parents pulled behind us. I grabbed P &
> told my Dad S was being mean. My Dad approached him & when S said a
> few things to him, my Dad who had no idea P could be like that
> slammed him against the wall outside & said you do not treat my
> daughter or grandson like that. P then got in the van & drove away
> scared of my Dad. My Dad called 911 & P was arrested for DUI, DWI.
> The next morning, P called over & over again leaving the meanest
> possible messages. When he sobered up, he apologized & promised to
> get help. He did get help. I went to meetings with him for 3 weeks.
> But sober he was still lazy and sometimes mean & I was scared of
> him. I always left a full bag for P & I in the van in case we
needed
> a quick escape & I never told P where I went so I would have a safe
> place. A week before I gave birth, I was packing (we had planned to
> move together after the baby was born) and he yelled at me for
> putting something in the hallway, then went in the room, slammed
the
> door & watched TV. I wanted things to be OK & asked him to talk it
> through, then saw myself 9 3/4 months pregnant luggging things up &
> down the stairs & said stop. I picked up P from daycare & went to
my
> parents. My whole family cam eover & said we will support you
> leaving him. I promised I would. When we went to the hospital (I
> needed a c-section), P was upset bc we didn't stop for a Mountain
> Dew for him and kept talking about himself. But I wanted him there.
> I loved him and we were having our daughter. Something changed
after
> I gave birth. I saw him come into see me complainging about how
> tired he was from working on the house & how my parents were
driving
> him crazy before asking how I was & our new daughter was. When I
got
> home, our baby girl was 7 days old & my parents said they would
> leave. I asked them to stay 1 more night. When P got home from his
> alcohol recovery meeting, I said I can't do this anymore. He said
> what? I said us. he couldn't hurt me or our kids with my Dad there.
> he threw some things downstairs & left. He begged for me to say we
> would work things out on the phone & threatened suicide. I would
> have taken him back, but my Dad told me he was an anchor, my 3rd
> child, all I needed were the clothes on our backs & my children &
to
> leave. S called the police to get in the house. The police witnssed
> his interactions with me & the kids then he left. We packed fast &
> went to the next state with my parents. That was 6 months ago. In
> the interim, he has tried everything to get me back & if I were not
> with my parents I would have gone back. I am so glad I have not. I
> have met him with the kids and it makes me so sad that we are not a
> family. I think all the time about the good times and the deep love
> we had and the wonderful times we shared as a family esp after P
was
> born. I have read Codependent No More & it has helped me so much in
> times where I have put his feelings in front of my own & even my
> kids. I receive no child support. He has gone into debt by $20,000
&
> wants $25,000 when the house sells. He blames me for the debt bc I
> left him suddenly with no money. Tomorrow he goes to court for the
> DUI & he partially blames my Dad. I try to make the right decisions
> for our children in seeing him. I am scared to leave them alone
with
> him although he said he has learned & would never let anything
> happen with them. Iworry my kids will be affected by not having
> their Dad. Our daughter deprived of a father at a week old. I know
I
> did the right think for them. P asks if Daddy ran in the street (it
> is the worst thing he thinks someone can do) and asks if Daddy is
> still sad. He asks for his Daddy when the other kids Dads are
around
> & I have to fight back tears. I cry every day for what I lost. But
I
> look at my daughter & think you never ever had to be hurt by him
and
> that's all that matters. I don't know where my strength is coming
> from, but every day I get the kids ready, take them to daycare,
> commute 1 1/2 hours to work eadch way, eat dinner as a family, get
> them ready for bed and love them as hard as I can. I will not stop
> this path until myself & the kids are out of his emotional harm,
> which I know will always be there.
>

I also forgot to mention that, he refuses to let me sleep on the couch,
wants to control what I eat, tells me he is the victim in this
relationship, always speaks fantastic about me to others but never in
private.  If I do not answer the phone when he calls, then hangs up and
continues to call one after another, esp if I am on the phone with
someone else and wants me to get off because he is calling.  Tells me
he will do something and never get to it, I ask him when and his answer
is always later.  He does love me, but in a controlling way, unless it
truly is not love and seems like it is. Last week he clogged the toliet
and blamed it on me, by saying I was putting paper towels down the
toliet, which i never did. He is hobby addicted, he goes from
photography, bicycles, horses, golf, guitar, keeps going from one to
another, now it is guns and skeet shooting.  I am so so very scared,
people have told me to get out and I panaic, I am so used to the
dysfunction and so used to him....thanks again for listening

Hi,
Thanks for letting me in.  Was not sure if I belong here or not, but
maybe some of you can help direct me.  My boyfriend of 19 years is
passive aggressive and never can say an nice thing to me.  Always
passive put downs, I never do anything right..I have very very low self
esteem and have my own emotional issues, fear I do not deserve better
because of my own problems.  Maybe in that sense we are good for each
other.  I own my house, everything is in my name because his credit is
bad, he refuses to reinstate his dr liscense, He does bring home a pay
check, so I can pay for the horse, car, truck that we got him and then
he pays our mortagage, and other living expenses also.  My business did
very well at one time, however has not been doing well recently and can
not afford to make it on my own, unless I sell everything. He used to
be physically abusive, that stopped about 10 years ago.  However he
does still block me in when we have an arguement in all aspects, with
his body, car, or door.  I think I have made light of my sitituation
always focusing on the good aspects of him...I panic when I think of
leaving him.  I do have an anxiety problem where I can not function and
fear that this might happen to me...Kim

Hi Folks!

Wow, I am surprised by how many members e-mailed me off  list indicating that
they are in the same boat I am as far as being on the verge  of losing their
home or being evicted from their apartment. I am truly sorry to  hear this.

I don't know if it's the economy or what, but even the programs that help
people under such circumstances are overwhelmed with applicants, and  therefore,
really low on funds as well. It's such a tragedy.

I just want you all to know that I care about you and will have you in  my
prayers just as you have expressed caring and prayers for me (thank you!).  May
we all be kept safe and sound!

Terri


“I don't understand why Cupid  was chosen to represent Valentine's Day.
When I think about romance, the  last thing on my mind is a
short, furtive toddler coming at me with a  weapon!”
~ Anonymous




**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

*** I gave my husband a list three months before I moved out. Four
pages of pouring my heart trying to convey my heartbreak and what I
could no longer tolerate, or I would have to move out for my own sanity.
Then when I did move out, he told everyone, I moved with no warning, and
never told him how unhappy I was. Four pages wasn't a sign of trouble
to come??

I've done this list-making and notifying process myself.  I have to
conclude it doesn't work exactly as intended.  It works, in a way I
think, but you can't tell for sure that it works and the results are
not as intended.

Here's what I mean:

Some of us, like me, go through this list making process because we
want to be clear and fair.  (One person says it sometimes goes with
being educated as an engineer.  So is he and he thought it hurt him in
custody hearings because everybody else was jumping at conclusions and
making accusations while he was trying to be considerate and fair.  He
just got run over.  This is a very close friend of mine and I suspect
any of you here would say this guy was an excellent dad.  Long sad
story there.  This guy says that I am the most guile-less person he
has ever known.  I had to look it up --- free from guile; sincere;
honest; straightforward; frank.  Thanks, friend.)

So that's where I'm coming from.  I had a pretty verbally abusive
childhood as I've mentioned and after I was married and had kids, I
could not stop my mother from interfering, always pointing out what
she saw as the faults of my wife and I to our kids, my wife's
relatives and anyone in the community that would listen.

What did I do?  I would try to enumerate the difficulties between us
in a way that I thought anyone, even my mother, would have to
appreciate.  Then I'd try to discuss them on the phone.  (Fortunately,
I had put 1,000 miles between us when I was fifteen.)  We'd go back
and forth.  I'd try to lay things out logically.  My wife would try to
address things in a loving, humble and compassionate fashion.  We'd
just get insulted back.  I said that I thought there had been fault on
both sides.  My mother said that was true, except that all the fault
had been on my side.  Things like that.

My wife and I put together a carefully worded list spelling out what
changes we needed in the relationship as clearly and nicely as we
could.  Things like:  We wanted to be respected as fellow adults.  We
wanted my mother to treat all the kids equally.  We didn't want her
telling the kids things that she didn't want us to know.  Things like
that...which you'd probably all consider reasonable.

Nothing changed.  I proposed talking to a counselor or pastor
together, but my mother would have none of that.  Didn't believe in
counseling, didn't really know our pastor and wouldn't go to hers.
Things continued bad and got a little worse.

I should have thrown in the towel and given all the time and energy I
was devoting this to my family or even to my work, but instead I tried
harder and harder.  I ended up putting together an eighty-page letter
(it contained, among other things, transcipts of parts of shows by
people like Dr. Laura and James Dobson on the "leave and cleave"
principle and adult children issues).  I took it to my pastor to have
her read through it and make sure that I was being respectful and
saying everything in the kindest way possible.  She assured me that I
was, so I sent it.

It was completely rejected as a "poison pen" letter, intended only to
hurt my mother.  No real results.  But see.  It was me, the engineer,
making lists, putting up notices, trying to make sure everyone knew al
the details and things were fair.

Well, you probably get my point.  I don't really have an answer, but
they do notice that you do these things.  However, they discard and
ignore them and go about their business.

eW



--- In End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <britthalo@...> wrote:
>
>
> >Karin wrote:    The thing is, I told him almost a year ago that things
> were really
> > bad. I gave him a written list of things/behaviors that I saw as
> unacceptable.
>
> *** I gave my husband a list three months before I moved out.  Four
> pages of pouring my heart trying to convey my heartbreak and what I
> could no longer tolerate, or I would have to move out for my own sanity.
> Then when I did move out, he told everyone, I moved with no warning, and
> never told him how unhappy I was.   Four pages wasn't a sign of trouble
> to come??
>
>   > Things haven't changed in 28
> > years - why should I believe that things will change now?
> > Deep down I know he'll blow up again. Whether it's in a week or a
> > month or a few months - he'll blow. I have no reason to believe he
> > won't. And I don't know if I'll have strength and courage to find my
> > way out again.
>
> Okay, you know a blow up is probably inevitable... (my husband has been
> the same way for 20 years)   and you can't prevent it.  But what you can
> do now is plan what you will do when that blow up happens.   If  you
> have an advance plan, it is easier to come up with the courage to act.
> I am not trying to tell you what to do , just give examples... like
> always have $100 hidden in your purse, so you can calmly walk out and
> spend the night in a motel.  Have a close friend that you can call late
> at night with no explanations or criticism who will let you sleep on her
> couch.  Always make sure you have gas in the car so you can leave and
> drive around for a few hours.   Go to the guest room, and lock the door.
> Refuse to lower yourself to his level by screaming back, or defending
> yourself, because it doesn't seem to help and sometimes escalates the
> fight.  The abuser has to calm himself down, and be willing to talk like
> a grown up later on.
>
> Because as I have read here or some other help group, the only way to
> get out of this crazy dance, is to stop dancing.   You cannot "make" him
> understand, stop yelling, or stop verbally abusing you.  When someone is
> mad and screaming at you, all the understanding and placating, soothing
> ruffled feathers, all that, is not going to make things better.  It just
> keeps you tangled up in the web, and dancing some dance that you don't
> know the rules to.
>
> The only way to stop the abuse is to leave the situtation.  I don't
> necessarily mean the marriage, but you need to draw a line, and say I
> will no longer tolerate _____ , and if it happens, I will take care of
> me by doing___________ .      Plan what you will do, and follow thru.
> If you have good things about your marriage except when he acts like
> this, then it doesn't have to be change or divorce.  Something in the
> middle could work.
>
> (Although I decided the best thing for me was to separate from my
> husband, but he would say he would do anything to keep from leaving, but
> his actions never matched up to his promises.  That was when I knew I
> had to leave to take care of me)
>
> > I'm 50 years old and I don't want to spend anymore of my life being
> > miserable. It's so hard to say no and to say it over and over again.
> > This is exhausting.
>
> I am 42, and feel like at my age I should have my act together.  I want
> to feel content for the rest of my life, even if that means being
> single.  I will surround myself with people who love me, and nurture me,
> not abuse and take advantage of me.  I agree this is exhausting for us
> because we are always trying to fix it... and meanwhile it seems like
> most of the time the abusers go about their day without a care.
>
> Take care of yourself,
>
> Mary B.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I can't tell you how great it is to find this group. Until now i felt
like i was the only one on earth who suffers through this. I
completely relate to "struggling" -- as I've been married for 18 years
to someone very similar. After enduring years of the yo-yo VA/EA,
especially in the last 2 1/2 years (the worst began with our massive
home remodeling -go figure) I'm done. I told him this about a month
ago, which of course was followed by his beautiful promises to change.
Yup, we want so much to believe. But just as I feared, he blew up
again a couple nights ago. Now he's very scared - so much that he
suffocates me. He's there like a puppy and gets mad if i just want
some space ("you're not trying to get closer!"). In all this mess,
i've come to the cold realization that there's no love left in me. I
respect his intelligence; his social skill; his talents. I mean, he
thinks I'm crazy for wanting to leave his all perfect-ness. He's a
good father (mostly -- more on that later) But love -- just isn't
there. I thought if i just toughed it out for a while, it would
magically come back, but I don't think it will. Now the "good" times
we share are just a shell in my heart. Yes, his words hurt, but I
became numb to them. I find that I will agree, or surrender, or
apologize -- just to avoid an imminent argument.  Lots more to say,
which I hope to share, but for now I'm just tired of pretending.
Thanks for listening.

Hi Karin,

You say he said he had no idea he had pushed you to your
limit. That indicates to me that he was fully aware of what it was he
was doing all the time. He will never change and until he learns that
when you say no you really mean no, then he will know he can just keep
pushing until you say yes. Don't do it!!!

All of us here who have managed to get away from our VAs know just how
hard it is to keep saying no in the face of the anger, the
name-calling, the tears, the begging, the guilt-inducing accusations.
But you just have to keep saying it.

I'm thinking of you tonight and sending positive energy and love your way.

Love and Light, Karen.

--- In End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com, "Karin" <kmp1218@...> wrote:
>
> Hi to all,
>
> I've been logging on here for a few years now - posted once or
> twice.  I've been with my VA for over 28 years, married for almost
> 24. I didn't realize I was being verbally & emotionally abused until
> about 4 years ago (how does that happen?) but now I reread a journal
> I started 27 years ago and it's very apparent that it's been
> happening since almost day 1.
>
> My struggle is this: 2 weeks ago (Super Bowl Sunday) my VA blew - he
> pressed every one of my buttons he could think of and kept at it. I
> decided then and there that that was it.  The next morning, I called
> an attorney and by the following Friday had filed for divorce.  I
> told my VA 8 days ago and he got a letter informing him of such
> action 5 days ago. I had no idea how he'd react and he was actually
> relatively cool about things. He was a little angry, then pleading
> some and then practical (well, we'll have to sell this and that and
> split everything up).
>
> Now he's started pleading with me to not go through with the
> divorce.  He says he'll do ANYTHING to make things right. He says
> he'll change. He says he had no idea that he had pushed me to my
> limit.  He says he doesn't want to lose me and on and on.
>
> It took me 28 years to muster up the courage to tell him and now I'm
> beginning to think twice about it. I know he won't change...I know
> it! But all this pleading forces me to tell him over and over again -
> and it's so hard!
>
> I'm just looking for a little support here - any wise words you can
> share will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you in advance.
>

I was wondering, is anyone familiar with the concept of suppression of
dissent? Because I am not, I just cut-n-paste the paragraphs below sans the
quotations (I forget to include these). Upon further analysis, though, it 
doesn't
seem that putting someone away in a mental hospital as means of  hindering them
from speaking up about abuse or a crime would be applicable  because dissent
simply has to do with divergence of opinion, does it not? Not  the reality of
abuse or crime? I dunno.

I was just curious if any members have been involuntarily hospitalized by
their abuser in an effort to get them to "shut up" about the abuse? I saw
something like this in a movie a month or so ago. The poor woman was  absolutely
traumatized by the entire ordeal. The abuser was an important  political figure,
and so desperate to make her quiet and for no one to believe  her, that he
insisted she be given electroshock therapy in addition to  medication so that
her memory would be completely impaired. He got numerous  persons involved to
make up things about her in order to accomplish his mission.  It was horrifying
to watch.

Terri

In a message dated 2/20/2008 12:31:27 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
AZTerri@... writes:

Have any members here had  this happen to them?

Suppression of dissent occurs when an individual  or group which is more
powerful than another tries to directly or  indirectly censor, persecute, or
otherwise oppress the other party,  rather than engage with and
constructively
respond to or accommodate  the other party's arguments or viewpoint. When
dissent
is perceived  as a threat, action may be taken to prevent continuing dissent
or
penalize  dissidents. Government or industry may often act in this  way.

Involuntary commitment can be used as a form of suppression  of  dissent. It
is the practice of using legal means or forms as part  of a mental  health
law
to commit a person to a mental hospital,  insane asylum, or  psychiatric ward
against their will or over their  protests in order to prevent  them from
speaking out (about an  injustice or crime, for example).


“I don't understand why Cupid was  chosen to represent Valentine's Day.
When I think about romance, the last  thing on my mind is a
short, furtive toddler coming at me with a  weapon!”
~ Anonymous



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Have any members here had this happen to them?

Suppression of dissent occurs when an individual or group which is more
powerful than another tries to directly or indirectly censor, persecute, or
otherwise oppress the other party, rather than engage with and constructively
respond to or accommodate the other party's arguments or viewpoint. When dissent
is perceived as a threat, action may be taken to prevent continuing dissent or
  penalize dissidents. Government or industry may often act in this way.

Involuntary commitment can be used as a form of suppression of  dissent. It
is the practice of using legal means or forms as part of a mental  health law
to commit a person to a mental hospital, insane asylum, or  psychiatric ward
against their will or over their protests in order to prevent  them from
speaking out (about an injustice or crime, for example).



“I don't understand why Cupid  was chosen to represent Valentine's Day.
When I think about romance, the  last thing on my mind is a
short, furtive toddler coming at me with a  weapon!”
~ Anonymous




**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Karin,

I agree with Dr. Phil that the best predictor of future behavior is past
behavior.  I know what you are going through and admit that they can pour on the
charm when they want something.  Obviously he has figured out you are serious,
so it's time to be prince charming again.  He figures that it has worked in the
past (most likely....it did with me anyway) and it's now time to beg forgiveness
and make promises (that has probably worked in the past, too)  that you are
pretty sure he won't keep.  In my opinion, he's still trying to control you. 
When I finally told my almost-X VA that I was leaving, he begged, cried,
promised, begged some more, promised some more, cried some more and when that
didn't work, he agreed that we should seperate, but that I should stay in the
house and he would move.  (More control....I gave in to his suggestion to stay
in the house, so although I got what I wanted...the seperation, he was in
control of how we would seperate.)
  That lasted about 3 weeks and the end finally came with me calling the police
and they issued a restraining order against him for domestic violence.

My VA said that he never realized how much he had hurt me too.  I guess that all
the tears and fights just don't register with them?  I don't know how to explain
it, but we even tried counselling and he told our counsellor at the first
meeting that he was there to find out what was wrong with me!  So everything
that I told the counsellor, he had an excuse for.  It wasn't until I went to
counselling alone that I made any progress.  He still after almost 2 and a half
years of seperation can't figure out why I was so unhappy, after all, he gave me
everything, and I was the ungrateful b!tch.  I quit trying to figure out HIS
problems and concentrated on getting myself happy and healthy again.  I'm happy
to say that it has been a success, but I'm still a work in progress.  I figure
this will effect future relationships for years to come, but it's constructive
work and I feel better all the time for the progress I have made.

My only advice is to follow your instincts.  You are the only one that can know
when the time is right for you to do it.  We can all give advice, but what works
for one, doesn't always work for another.  You are the only one that can make a
decision to leave or to stay.  We'll all be here on the sidelines for you.  Come
here often for support and a shoulder to lean on.  In the meantime, take good
care of yourself.

hugs,

FF2




----- Original Message ----
From: Karin <kmp1218@...>
To: End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 10:10:36 PM
Subject: Re: {End Verbal Abuse} struggling...

Thanks to all of you for your support and for sharing your thoughts.

The thing is, I told him almost a year ago that things were really
bad. I gave him a written list of things/behaviors that I saw as
unacceptable. I had composed the list almost 2 years prior to that
and it took me those 2 years to find the strength to give it to him.
He is very controlling and I haven't been able to have any semblance
of a conversation with him about our relationship until now - until I
told him that I filed for divorce. Then and only then did he change
his tune and even attempt to listen to anything I had to say. Now
that I've taken steps to pull myself (and my kids) out of this
abusive environment he says he's ready to listen and change.

It took so much for me to start moving toward freedom that if I give
him one more chance and it doesn't work out it could very well take
me years to get to this point again. Things haven't changed in 28
years - why should I believe that things will change now?

Deep down I know he'll blow up again. Whether it's in a week or a
month or a few months - he'll blow. I have no reason to believe he
won't. And I don't know if I'll have strength and courage to find my
way out again.

On the other hand, he continues to apologize and is almost begging me
to give him one more chance. He keeps saying he didn't realize how
much he hurt me and I keep thinking about the list I gave him almost
a year ago. It said it all and he ignored it.

Why should I believe him now?

I'm 50 years old and I don't want to spend anymore of my life being
miserable. It's so hard to say no and to say it over and over again.

This is exhausting.

Again, thanks for your thoughts and support.

Blessings,

Karin

--- In End_Verbal_Abuse@ yahoogroups. com, zestforart@. .. wrote:
>
>
> Dear Karin:
>
> My VAH used to ask me the same questions over and over again,
knowing I would conscientiously and delicately try to answer them
again and that it hurt me to have to search for the nonoffensive
words to do so, as if he was a child and simply didn't understand.?
The very asking of the same questions over and over was a form of
abuse to me, as the answer was always the same:? the reason I don't
feel comfortable giving you a juicy kiss is because you have insulted
me 10 times today and disregarded my respectful wishes about our
activities and trivialized things that I have said from the depths of
my soul, and when I once in a blue moon point any of this out to you
in a delicate way, you just defend it and never seem to be sorry and
do it again the next chance you get.? What is so hard to understand
about that, and why would any compassionate person have to hear it
more than once?
>
> Zest
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karin <kmp1218@... >
> To: End_Verbal_Abuse@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 12:52 pm
> Subject: {End Verbal Abuse} struggling.. .
>
> Hi to all,
>
>
>
> I've been logging on here for a few years now - posted once or
>
> twice. I've been with my VA for over 28 years, married for almost
>
> 24. I didn't realize I was being verbally & emotionally abused
until
>
> about 4 years ago (how does that happen?) but now I reread a
journal
>
> I started 27 years ago and it's very apparent that it's been
>
> happening since almost day 1.
>
>
>
> My struggle is this: 2 weeks ago (Super Bowl Sunday) my VA blew -
he
>
> pressed every one of my buttons he could think of and kept at it. I
>
> decided then and there that that was it. The next morning, I
called
>
> an attorney and by the following Friday had filed for divorce. I
>
> told my VA 8 days ago and he got a letter informing him of such
>
> action 5 days ago. I had no idea how he'd react and he was actually
>
> relatively cool about things. He was a little angry, then pleading
>
> some and then practical (well, we'll have to sell this and that and
>
> split everything up).
>
>
>
> Now he's started pleading with me to not go through with the
>
> divorce. He says he'll do ANYTHING to make things right. He says
>
> he'll change. He says he had no idea that he had pushed me to my
>
> limit. He says he doesn't want to lose me and on and on.
>
>
>
> It took me 28 years to muster up the courage to tell him and now
I'm
>
> beginning to think twice about it. I know he won't change...I know
>
> it! But all this pleading forces me to tell him over and over
again -
>
> and it's so hard!
>
>
>
> I'm just looking for a little support here - any wise words you can
>
> share will be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
__
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail. aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I read your letter below.? I try to think how I have survived recently.? First
I read books on abuse like a maniac every spare moment.? This let me know what
is happening so I am not in a daze.? Then I went through a few counselors
finding the right one and go to her as much as I can.? Then I try to do the
activities I did before I got married so I could feel like I was my normal self
again.? My local YWCA (NOT YWMCA) has counseling groups and private counseling
which is almost free ($5) per session, also.? I keep a dated detailed journal
religiously detailing conversations and events that happened with my VAH, which
I believe is going to help me with my divorce.? My attorney recently agreed to
ask for a basis of cruelty instead of the garden variety incompatibility.? I am
searching public records--the courthouse and police station have people to tell
you where to look--to find evidence about my VAH--something I should have done
before I agreed to marry.? I keep myself busy doing all these things, and if you
add them up, they really help me get through each day.? I am not with my VAH any
more but he still is doing things to annoy me through my family.? I have located
a few friends that are truly sympathetic and I leave my other friends alone for
the time being, cuz I need support more than just socializing.? I re-read my
journals.? I record my counselor's sessions and replay them in the headset if I
get depressed, can't get to sleep, or get bored at work.? I am trying to keep my
inner child alive!

Best wishes to you and in whatever works for you...

Zest







-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <herbal7@...>
To: End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 8:37 am
Subject: Re: {End Verbal Abuse} struggling...

























Married 26 yrs and been together 28 yrs. His abuse has worsened over the years
to the point of my filing for divorce last year. Then he stopped paying bills
and we almost last everything. He convinced me bankruptcy was the only
alternative. My attorney told me not to sign, but I was forced into it. Thus my
divorce was cancelled and my attorney quit, leaving me to stay with the a**hole
for 5  more yrs or until bankruptcy is over.

   He came home last night and saw the neighbor trying to cut tree limbs without
a ladder. He used to borrow ours. Hubby asked me why he didn't ask to borrow one
or even talk to him anymore. Well the reason is, his wife is my best friend and
they have seen how he treats me and my teen daughter. They do not respect him
any longer and frankly do not like him anymore. So I told him the reason, since
he kept pressing for an answer. That turned into him defending himself and
justifying his actions. They don't know him, don't know the truth, etc. Got to
the point of my having a panic/anxiety attack, him threatening to hit me, if I
was a man he would knock my lights out.{has done it before and went to jail
once}. Then since we were at it, daughter started yelling at me too. Turned into
a big fiasco. These men are really little boys needing a good spanking from
their mommy's. I do everything for him. He supports us by working, but that is
it. I am not able to work due to illness and

  have been a sahm since daughter was born. I am about to go nuts living like
this. what is one to do?

   Linda



zestforart@... wrote:



Dear Karin:



My VAH used to ask me the same questions over and over again, knowing I would
conscientiously and delicately try to answer them again and that it hurt me to
have to search for the nonoffensive words to do so, as if he was a child and
simply didn't understand.? The very asking of the same questions over and over
was a form of abuse to me, as the answer was always the same:? the reason I
don't feel comfortable giving you a juicy kiss is because you have insulted me
10 times today and disregarded my respectful wishes about our activities and
trivialized things that I have said from the depths of my soul, and when I once
in a blue moon point any of this out to you in a delicate way, you just defend
it and never seem to be sorry and do it again the next chance you get.? What is
so hard to understand about that, and why would any compassionate person have to
hear it more than once?



Zest



-----Original Message-----

From: Karin

To: End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 12:52 pm

Subject: {End Verbal Abuse} struggling...



Hi to all,



I've been logging on here for a few years now - posted once or



twice. I've been with my VA for over 28 years, married for almost



24. I didn't realize I was being verbally & emotionally abused until



about 4 years ago (how does that happen?) but now I reread a journal



I started 27 years ago and it's very apparent that it's been



happening since almost day 1.



My struggle is this: 2 weeks ago (Super Bowl Sunday) my VA blew - he



pressed every one of my buttons he could think of and kept at it. I



decided then and there that that was it. The next morning, I called



an attorney and by the following Friday had filed for divorce. I



told my VA 8 days ago and he got a letter informing him of such



action 5 days ago. I had no idea how he'd react and he was actually



relatively cool about things. He was a little angry, then pleading



some and then practical (well, we'll have to sell this and that and



split everything up).



Now he's started pleading with me to not go through with the



divorce. He says he'll do ANYTHING to make things right. He says



he'll change. He says he had no idea that he had pushed me to my



limit. He says he doesn't want to lose me and on and on.



It took me 28 years to muster up the courage to tell him and now I'm



beginning to think twice about it. I know he won't change...I know



it! But all this pleading forces me to tell him over and over again -



and it's so hard!



I'm just looking for a little support here - any wise words you can



share will be greatly appreciated.



Thank you in advance.



__________________________________________________________

More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
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I am not a paranoid person in the least normally, but at one juncture I

started to feel like Karen Silkwood, "What the hell is going on  here? Why don't

people want to get involved or help?" It's just plain odd.



Terri




  Terri, that Karen Silkwood statement above kind of echoes in my head.  As an
abused person I had/have that thought quite often; and the people who didn't
want to get involved or help are not strangers or passersby but my FAMILY.

Zest





-----Original Message-----
From: AZTerri@...
To: End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 12:06 pm
Subject: Re: {End Verbal Abuse} Re: Some Good News!





























Thanks, megaera! Because, to be honest, sometimes it feels like something

very strange is going on. I couldn't get assistance from this program, injured

myself because of this, was under a lot of stress and anxiety, couldn't work

as  much as I needed to, and have been on the verge of homelessness since

because my finances were so adversely impacted. I have contacted attorneys

because the few people I've told the entire story to have indicated to me, 
"That

program had to have broken the law, and they caused you harm and  loss! You

should be able to sue and get some kind of compensation from  them!" Etc.



Yet, every attorney I've contacted has not replied (I figure because I

cannot afford to pay one), and everyone else I've contacted and asked, "Do  you

know an attorney who can help me for free, volunteer, pro  bono, whatever word

you want to use?" has replied, in essence, "I  don't know what to tell you." One

did give me a number, but the people there  didn't seem to understand the

magnitude of the situation and just recommended I  look for some other program
to

help me (I don't know of any, and that would not  compensate me for what the

other one did anyway).



I am not a paranoid person in the least normally, but at one juncture I

started to feel like Karen Silkwood, "What the hell is going on  here? Why don't

people want to get involved or help?" It's just plain odd.



Terri





In a message dated 2/16/2008 8:31:28 AM US Mountain Standard Time,

megaera@... writes:



That's excellent news! I'm  glad for you! :)



“I don't understand why Cupid was  chosen to represent Valentine's Day.

When I think about romance, the last  thing on my mind is a

short, furtive toddler coming at me with a  weapon!”

~ Anonymous



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.

(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/

2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)



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>Karin wrote:    The thing is, I told him almost a year ago that things
were really
> bad. I gave him a written list of things/behaviors that I saw as
unacceptable.

*** I gave my husband a list three months before I moved out.  Four
pages of pouring my heart trying to convey my heartbreak and what I
could no longer tolerate, or I would have to move out for my own sanity.
Then when I did move out, he told everyone, I moved with no warning, and
never told him how unhappy I was.   Four pages wasn't a sign of trouble
to come??

   > Things haven't changed in 28
> years - why should I believe that things will change now?
> Deep down I know he'll blow up again. Whether it's in a week or a
> month or a few months - he'll blow. I have no reason to believe he
> won't. And I don't know if I'll have strength and courage to find my
> way out again.

Okay, you know a blow up is probably inevitable... (my husband has been
the same way for 20 years)   and you can't prevent it.  But what you can
do now is plan what you will do when that blow up happens.   If  you
have an advance plan, it is easier to come up with the courage to act.
I am not trying to tell you what to do , just give examples... like
always have $100 hidden in your purse, so you can calmly walk out and
spend the night in a motel.  Have a close friend that you can call late
at night with no explanations or criticism who will let you sleep on her
couch.  Always make sure you have gas in the car so you can leave and
drive around for a few hours.   Go to the guest room, and lock the door.
Refuse to lower yourself to his level by screaming back, or defending
yourself, because it doesn't seem to help and sometimes escalates the
fight.  The abuser has to calm himself down, and be willing to talk like
a grown up later on.

Because as I have read here or some other help group, the only way to
get out of this crazy dance, is to stop dancing.   You cannot "make" him
understand, stop yelling, or stop verbally abusing you.  When someone is
mad and screaming at you, all the understanding and placating, soothing
ruffled feathers, all that, is not going to make things better.  It just
keeps you tangled up in the web, and dancing some dance that you don't
know the rules to.

The only way to stop the abuse is to leave the situtation.  I don't
necessarily mean the marriage, but you need to draw a line, and say I
will no longer tolerate _____ , and if it happens, I will take care of
me by doing___________ .      Plan what you will do, and follow thru.
If you have good things about your marriage except when he acts like
this, then it doesn't have to be change or divorce.  Something in the
middle could work.

(Although I decided the best thing for me was to separate from my
husband, but he would say he would do anything to keep from leaving, but
his actions never matched up to his promises.  That was when I knew I
had to leave to take care of me)

> I'm 50 years old and I don't want to spend anymore of my life being
> miserable. It's so hard to say no and to say it over and over again.
> This is exhausting.

I am 42, and feel like at my age I should have my act together.  I want
to feel content for the rest of my life, even if that means being
single.  I will surround myself with people who love me, and nurture me,
not abuse and take advantage of me.  I agree this is exhausting for us
because we are always trying to fix it... and meanwhile it seems like
most of the time the abusers go about their day without a care.

Take care of yourself,

Mary B.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com, "Lee" <lynlee39@...> wrote:
>
> I have about 300.00 dollars left and no place to go now.  Not sure
what
> to do.  Does anyone have any ideas?




This may sound stupid,  but go to church.  Some of the bihhret churches
might have a fund for the needy.   Other than that  maybe call your
doctor  or the police department   they are a wealth of information.
>

Hmm, interesting thought below, Christopher, but I DO support Lee moving to
Hawaii [or anywhere she chose to move].? My son lived in Hawaii for three years
and I visited him there a number of times.? Tax rates are not the only factors
in choosing a home city.? Hawaii's a great and exciting place, and I have
considered moving there myself.

Zest







-----Original Message-----
From: lcms0516@...
To: End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 4:17 pm
Subject: Re: {End Verbal Abuse} I Finally Left.....

























Lee, While I support you in leaving, I don't support the move to Hawaii.  Hawaii
has the highest tax rate in the United States.  My uncle n' his wife, own a
house there(they also own homes in Idaho n' Colorado) but, he is a
multi-millionaire so, he can afford it.



Being a single mother n' living in Hawaii don't go good together.



Christopher



-------------- Original message --------------

From: "Lee" <lynlee39@...>



> I told him 5 days before I left.... I told him me and the kids were

> going back to hawaii...... and that week-end he was loving,

> affectionate and told me how much he loved me and he didn't want to

> ever live without me in his life. It was the best week-end I have had

> with him in a very very long time. But I know it was only because he

> knew I was leaving and he would go from one extreme to the other trying

> to make me feel guilty saying I was running out on him when he was at

> his lowest.... It was the HARDEST thing I ever did was say goodbye and

> get in my car and get on that airplane.....the whole time the past 3

> days wondering "Did I make the right decision" "maybe he is right I

> can't make it on my own, maybe I should have never left" but I know I

> did make the right decision for EVERYONE involved but it has been

> really hard and its scarey to be 5000+ miles away but then again I

> think it is good to be so far away cause I can't on a whim (sp) get in

> my car and go be with him there is way to much ocean between us.....

>

> I have to say I do feel relief and heartbreak at the sametime. I feel

> like celebrating and crying at the sametime.....



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Thanks to all of you for your support and for sharing your thoughts.

The thing is, I told him almost a year ago that things were really
bad.  I gave him a written list of things/behaviors that I saw as
unacceptable.  I had composed the list almost 2 years prior to that
and it took me those 2 years to find the strength to give it to him.
He is very controlling and I haven't been able to have any semblance
of a conversation with him about our relationship until now - until I
told him that I filed for divorce.  Then and only then did he change
his tune and even attempt to listen to anything I had to say.  Now
that I've taken steps to pull myself (and my kids) out of this
abusive environment he says he's ready to listen and change.

It took so much for me to start moving toward freedom that if I give
him one more chance and it doesn't work out it could very well take
me years to get to this point again.  Things haven't changed in 28
years - why should I believe that things will change now?

Deep down I know he'll blow up again.  Whether it's in a week or a
month or a few months - he'll blow.  I have no reason to believe he
won't.  And I don't know if I'll have strength and courage to find my
way out again.

On the other hand, he continues to apologize and is almost begging me
to give him one more chance.  He keeps saying he didn't realize how
much he hurt me and I keep thinking about the list I gave him almost
a year ago.  It said it all and he ignored it.

Why should I believe him now?

I'm 50 years old and I don't want to spend anymore of my life being
miserable.  It's so hard to say no and to say it over and over again.

This is exhausting.

Again, thanks for your thoughts and support.

Blessings,

Karin


--- In End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com, zestforart@... wrote:
>
>
>  Dear Karin:
>
> My VAH used to ask me the same questions over and over again,
knowing I would conscientiously and delicately try to answer them
again and that it hurt me to have to search for the nonoffensive
words to do so, as if he was a child and simply didn't understand.?
The very asking of the same questions over and over was a form of
abuse to me, as the answer was always the same:? the reason I don't
feel comfortable giving you a juicy kiss is because you have insulted
me 10 times today and disregarded my respectful wishes about our
activities and trivialized things that I have said from the depths of
my soul, and when I once in a blue moon point any of this out to you
in a delicate way, you just defend it and never seem to be sorry and
do it again the next chance you get.? What is so hard to understand
about that, and why would any compassionate person have to hear it
more than once?
>
> Zest
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karin <kmp1218@...>
> To: End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 12:52 pm
> Subject: {End Verbal Abuse} struggling...
>
> Hi to all,
>
>
>
> I've been logging on here for a few years now - posted once or
>
> twice.  I've been with my VA for over 28 years, married for almost
>
> 24. I didn't realize I was being verbally & emotionally abused
until
>
> about 4 years ago (how does that happen?) but now I reread a
journal
>
> I started 27 years ago and it's very apparent that it's been
>
> happening since almost day 1.
>
>
>
> My struggle is this: 2 weeks ago (Super Bowl Sunday) my VA blew -
he
>
> pressed every one of my buttons he could think of and kept at it. I
>
> decided then and there that that was it.  The next morning, I
called
>
> an attorney and by the following Friday had filed for divorce.  I
>
> told my VA 8 days ago and he got a letter informing him of such
>
> action 5 days ago. I had no idea how he'd react and he was actually
>
> relatively cool about things. He was a little angry, then pleading
>
> some and then practical (well, we'll have to sell this and that and
>
> split everything up).
>
>
>
> Now he's started pleading with me to not go through with the
>
> divorce.  He says he'll do ANYTHING to make things right. He says
>
> he'll change. He says he had no idea that he had pushed me to my
>
> limit.  He says he doesn't want to lose me and on and on.
>
>
>
> It took me 28 years to muster up the courage to tell him and now
I'm
>
> beginning to think twice about it. I know he won't change...I know
>
> it! But all this pleading forces me to tell him over and over
again -
>
> and it's so hard!
>
>
>
> I'm just looking for a little support here - any wise words you can
>
> share will be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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__
> More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
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>
>
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>

I would love to film my hubby in action. I am calm and he is yelling, name
calling, etc. I am sick of the verbal/mental abuse. Then when over he is calm as
can be and I am a wreck. I can so sympathize.

zestforart@... wrote:

he made me look crazy to everyone else, because he just seemed so very kind and
decent

Cynthia:

Amen, amen, amen.? I
just got done looking at a video of us talking and him jacking me
around and me being very rational and sincere and then his callousness making me
cry, and yet I know everyone outside of our family thinks he's the
greatest....it's the weirdest feeling in the world.? So unreal.? Totally
unbelieveable....no wonder I denied it was happening for so long.



(not so) Zest ful






-----Original Message-----
From: Cynthia Burkey
To: End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 2:40 pm
Subject: Re: {End Verbal Abuse} Re: I hate waking up in the morning





























>

>When I would watch my abuser applying this charm to someone else to

>achieve a purpose, sometimes I'd almost puke.

>

OMG, me too. isn't it incredible? and people fall right into the trap.....it's
almost like the charm is some sort of commodity they can turn on and off. it
used to really upset me because this was how he made me look crazy to everyone
else, because he just seemed so very kind and decent.



















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