*** I gave my husband a list three months before I moved out. Four
pages of pouring my heart trying to convey my heartbreak and what I
could no longer tolerate, or I would have to move out for my own sanity.
Then when I did move out, he told everyone, I moved with no warning, and
never told him how unhappy I was. Four pages wasn't a sign of trouble
to come??

I've done this list-making and notifying process myself. I have to
conclude it doesn't work exactly as intended. It works, in a way I
think, but you can't tell for sure that it works and the results are
not as intended.

Here's what I mean:

Some of us, like me, go through this list making process because we
want to be clear and fair. (One person says it sometimes goes with
being educated as an engineer. So is he and he thought it hurt him in
custody hearings because everybody else was jumping at conclusions and
making accusations while he was trying to be considerate and fair. He
just got run over. This is a very close friend of mine and I suspect
any of you here would say this guy was an excellent dad. Long sad
story there. This guy says that I am the most guile-less person he
has ever known. I had to look it up --- free from guile; sincere;
honest; straightforward; frank. Thanks, friend.)

So that's where I'm coming from. I had a pretty verbally abusive
childhood as I've mentioned and after I was married and had kids, I
could not stop my mother from interfering, always pointing out what
she saw as the faults of my wife and I to our kids, my wife's
relatives and anyone in the community that would listen.

What did I do? I would try to enumerate the difficulties between us
in a way that I thought anyone, even my mother, would have to
appreciate. Then I'd try to discuss them on the phone. (Fortunately,
I had put 1,000 miles between us when I was fifteen.) We'd go back
and forth. I'd try to lay things out logically. My wife would try to
address things in a loving, humble and compassionate fashion. We'd
just get insulted back. I said that I thought there had been fault on
both sides. My mother said that was true, except that all the fault
had been on my side. Things like that.

My wife and I put together a carefully worded list spelling out what
changes we needed in the relationship as clearly and nicely as we
could. Things like: We wanted to be respected as fellow adults. We
wanted my mother to treat all the kids equally. We didn't want her
telling the kids things that she didn't want us to know. Things like
that...which you'd probably all consider reasonable.

Nothing changed. I proposed talking to a counselor or pastor
together, but my mother would have none of that. Didn't believe in
counseling, didn't really know our pastor and wouldn't go to hers.
Things continued bad and got a little worse.

I should have thrown in the towel and given all the time and energy I
was devoting this to my family or even to my work, but instead I tried
harder and harder. I ended up putting together an eighty-page letter
(it contained, among other things, transcipts of parts of shows by
people like Dr. Laura and James Dobson on the "leave and cleave"
principle and adult children issues). I took it to my pastor to have
her read through it and make sure that I was being respectful and
saying everything in the kindest way possible. She assured me that I
was, so I sent it.

It was completely rejected as a "poison pen" letter, intended only to
hurt my mother. No real results. But see. It was me, the engineer,
making lists, putting up notices, trying to make sure everyone knew al
the details and things were fair.

Well, you probably get my point. I don't really have an answer, but
they do notice that you do these things. However, they discard and
ignore them and go about their business.

eW



--- In End_Verbal_Abuse@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <britthalo@...> wrote:
>
>
> >Karin wrote: The thing is, I told him almost a year ago that things
> were really
> > bad. I gave him a written list of things/behaviors that I saw as
> unacceptable.
>
> *** I gave my husband a list three months before I moved out. Four
> pages of pouring my heart trying to convey my heartbreak and what I
> could no longer tolerate, or I would have to move out for my own sanity.
> Then when I did move out, he told everyone, I moved with no warning, and
> never told him how unhappy I was. Four pages wasn't a sign of trouble
> to come??
>
> > Things haven't changed in 28
> > years - why should I believe that things will change now?
> > Deep down I know he'll blow up again. Whether it's in a week or a
> > month or a few months - he'll blow. I have no reason to believe he
> > won't. And I don't know if I'll have strength and courage to find my
> > way out again.
>
> Okay, you know a blow up is probably inevitable... (my husband has been
> the same way for 20 years) and you can't prevent it. But what you can
> do now is plan what you will do when that blow up happens. If you
> have an advance plan, it is easier to come up with the courage to act.
> I am not trying to tell you what to do , just give examples... like
> always have $100 hidden in your purse, so you can calmly walk out and
> spend the night in a motel. Have a close friend that you can call late
> at night with no explanations or criticism who will let you sleep on her
> couch. Always make sure you have gas in the car so you can leave and
> drive around for a few hours. Go to the guest room, and lock the door.
> Refuse to lower yourself to his level by screaming back, or defending
> yourself, because it doesn't seem to help and sometimes escalates the
> fight. The abuser has to calm himself down, and be willing to talk like
> a grown up later on.
>
> Because as I have read here or some other help group, the only way to
> get out of this crazy dance, is to stop dancing. You cannot "make" him
> understand, stop yelling, or stop verbally abusing you. When someone is
> mad and screaming at you, all the understanding and placating, soothing
> ruffled feathers, all that, is not going to make things better. It just
> keeps you tangled up in the web, and dancing some dance that you don't
> know the rules to.
>
> The only way to stop the abuse is to leave the situtation. I don't
> necessarily mean the marriage, but you need to draw a line, and say I
> will no longer tolerate _____ , and if it happens, I will take care of
> me by doing___________ . Plan what you will do, and follow thru.
> If you have good things about your marriage except when he acts like
> this, then it doesn't have to be change or divorce. Something in the
> middle could work.
>
> (Although I decided the best thing for me was to separate from my
> husband, but he would say he would do anything to keep from leaving, but
> his actions never matched up to his promises. That was when I knew I
> had to leave to take care of me)
>
> > I'm 50 years old and I don't want to spend anymore of my life being
> > miserable. It's so hard to say no and to say it over and over again.
> > This is exhausting.
>
> I am 42, and feel like at my age I should have my act together. I want
> to feel content for the rest of my life, even if that means being
> single. I will surround myself with people who love me, and nurture me,
> not abuse and take advantage of me. I agree this is exhausting for us
> because we are always trying to fix it... and meanwhile it seems like
> most of the time the abusers go about their day without a care.
>
> Take care of yourself,
>
> Mary B.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>