Hi Terri,

I think you made some good points that furthered the
idea I was trying to get across.  That is, when you
get down to the details there are both common and
unique characteristics to abusive relationships.

I'm not sure, it may be something more appropriate to
be addressed in a different forum, but I do feel it is
all worth discussing in an effort to understand abuse
in its various forms and how we can become educated
about it and end it for all.  I, personally, don't
wish to simply focus on a feminist agenda to the
exclusion of other abuse aspects (I can do that in
other woman-focused places if I want); I'm interested
in being exposed to knowledge about the details of all
kinds of abuse situations.  I wrote more about aspects
of the form that I am most familiar with
(male-->female), but that doesn't mean that I don't
also want to learn about and wouldn't be receptive to
the details of other forms, too, and how they are
similar or different to the one I have personal
experience with.

I absolutely agree with your comments (thank you for
pointing it out and giving the examples) that women
have been supplied their own specific sense of
entitlement by society in relation to child-bearing
decision making and physical assault on men (and maybe
other things, too).  They have a sense of entitlement,
it's just a different kind, and it IS also an
additional supportive mechanism that they may apply to
their abusive behavior.  It is one, for instance, that
can not be utilized in an abusive relationship between
two gay men.  It is unique to women because (so far)
women are the only ones who can give birth and they
are the ones who could try to take advantage of the
perception of being 'the weaker sex'.

I think your following comment is informative about
abuse:

"...ALL abusers feel entitled to abuse. Whether they
be women, men, heterosexual, homosexual, young, or old
and the  abusive behavior of ALL is supported by
society to some degree."

You wrote that you failed to comprehend the purpose of
my post.  It is two-fold.  The first reason is that I
hope people here will be allowed to analyze and
discuss specific aspects of ALL kinds of abusive
relationships.  I personally would be interested to
read more about the specific dynamics of abuse in
parent-->child and homosexual relationships just
because I have no experience with it, find it
interesting and would like to accummulate the
knowledge much like the reason for climbing Mt.
Everest:  because it is there.  (I wish more of it WAS
there to read and learn from)  Only being able to
speak in certain generalities "ALL abusers feel
entitled to abuse." is limiting, in my opinion, but I
certainly do also understand your goal that this list
not become a forum for 'male bashing' (or any other
kind of person bashing).  I haven't forgotten that you
have also allowed people to vent about the details of
their own personal situations, too, me included.

The second reason is a little more delicate.  I'm not
sure if I can properly articulate it without prompting
defensiveness or bad feelings, but I will try.  I
think, as a person on the outside looking in, the
various writings between you and Katrina were a
real-life example of interpersonal communications gone
wrong.  It could be said that both of you could have
taken a brief amount of time to further consider where
the other might be coming from and factor that into
your responses in order to come to a more harmonious
conclusion that wouldn't have required a sacrifice of
anything important on either side.  Things were
progressively written on both sides that ultimately
discouraged and made a positive outcome for both
people together nearly impossible.  Surely this wasn't
the initial intention nor the desirable outcome.  I
think what I saw was unfortunate miscommunication and
missteps that kept getting ratcheted up to higher
levels between two good people who in general,
probably mean no harm to others.

I hope what I've just written can be considered with
an open mind.  I hesitate to send this because I think
a lot of people don't have the desire to pursue
self-analysis, introspection, improving interpersonal
communications and attempting to understand human
nature and psychology to the extent that I do.  Unless
a person is motivated to seek out and request
constructive criticism and the opinions of others, it
probably won't be well received.  Essentially, a
message that perhaps I should keep to myself (only
worry about my own situation) may fall on deaf ears
anyway and may cause another to think negatively of ME
to boot.  I guess any responses to this post may bear
that out (or not) and can also be a learning
experience for me as far as when I ought to simply
mind my own business and move along.  I can accept
that because, goodness knows, I have enough things
about myself that I still need to 'fix' and perhaps I
ought not to go around trying to 'fix' others when I
haven't been asked to and haven't reached a level in
my own life to be really qualified to do it.  I am
still learning, learning, learning how to live this
life.

Mileva