Messages from archive of gallstones@egroups.com

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From: Beth <tyrr@...>
Date: Sun Jul 2, 2000 7:47pm
Subject: My first liver cleanse


Dear List Mates,

Well, I tried it. Here's how my first liver/gallbladder cleanse went, in point
form:
·did what the procedure instructed, drinking the oil/grapefruit potion last
night ·was up to excrete epsom salt water twice in the first 1.5 hours of
retiring :-( ·up four more times during the night do expell salt water ·woke up
at 5:00 a.m. with nausea which lasted for an hour ·fell back to sleep and
got up
at 7:30 to evacuate bowels, again, and take second-last drink of salts and just
stayed up afterward ·began passing small, dark, pea-green stones 1-3 per
occasion ·I was pretty disappointed that there weren't more stones, not to
mention bigger ones, so I didn't bother to drink the last serving of salts
·subsequent movements revealed several tiny, tan coloured stones, probably 25
or so, and I wished I'd had the last serving of salts, but I was already
drinking a beverage and thought better of downing it at that point ·my last
movement contained several tiny stones and one green one the size of an
elongated dime(the biggest one yet)

All in all, I think I would have done better had I done a parasite cleanse
closer to the flush, and in addition, done the required zapping for a week
prior. As Clark cautioned, I did feel the nausea which I could have avoided,
but all in all I feel the cleanse was a success. I'm confused as to why the
instructions inferred that I would sleep through the night; those salts just
kept coming! I wonder if my system takes longer than most to process them.
Anyone out there able to sleep through the night? I thought I'd have an
accident if I tried to hold it, so I just kept going to the loo.

Having been warned by several of you how disgusting the epsom salts would
taste, I held my nose and quickly gulped the stuff with a straw, rinsing my
mouth with tap water before unplugging my nose. This save me from the
gag-reflex I knew would occur.

The olive oil/pink grapefruit mixture was surprizingly tasty while I chugged it
but I didn't really appreciate the olive taste when I finished. It was no
biggie, though, and quite an easy task.




--------------------

From: Mary Wykes <maryyx@...>
Date: Sat Jul 8, 2000 6:15am
Subject: 3rd flush


Morning all...
Well, I am doing my third flush this weekend. Started with the apple
juice yesterday, and will continue today. Then do the epsom salts,
oil/juice mixture, etc. this afternoon and evening.
Didn't have much visible result the second time.... but I think part
of the reason is that I didn't follow all the way through with the Epsom
salts. I have felt better since that 2nd cleanse.
So... we'll see how it goes this time. At any rate, I know I am on
the right track. We have had company this past week, and I have eaten
many inappropriate foods. The difference in the way I have felt has
left me with no doubt that the liver cleansing diet is the way to go for
me... as a life long eating plan.
Have a great weekend all.
Mary


From: Mary Wykes <maryyx@...>
Date: Sun Jul 9, 2000 3:20am
Subject: not fun


Hi all...
I am up early cause it is more pleasant than just lying in bed
feeling yucky. My first two cleanses, I really didn't have much of a
problem with feeling bad.... but this one is not fun. As with last
time, after taking the oil/juice mixture and lying down, I had some pain
in the gallbladder area (though not severe).... and then some in my back
on the right side. I was lying on my right side... and finally decided
that maybe my excess bulk was squashing the gallbladder in that position
and rolled over on to my back.... as I have also seen that recommended.
That felt better, and I was able to get to sleep. For me this lying on
the right side is complicated by the fact that I have sleep apnea, and
have to sleep with a mask on my face that keeps the breathing passages
open during the night. It is very awkward to sleep on my side, 'cause
the mask slips.

I woke up a little before four feeling very yucky. Made a trip to the
bathroom and felt a little better.... but had major nausea, and was
burping oil/juice mixture. I started thinking that maybe I don't want
to keep doing this.... but then I thought about surgery as an
alternative and decided it wasn't so bad. I have not had surgery
recommended, but feel I was headed in that direction. I had an
ultrasound scheduled a few months ago, but missed my appointment. Had
started a new job, and forgot about it. I was set to go for the first
apointment, but the ultrasound machine broke down and they called a few
hours prior to the appt. to reschedule.... and it was that 2nd appt.
that I missed. I decided that it was kind of pointless, since I already
knew what the problem was, and I didn't want to argue with my Doctor
about alternative procedures. He has generally been a bit condescending
about alternatives to standard medical procedures.

Well... TTYL.... Mary

-------------

From: <survivor@...>
Date: Tue Jul 11, 2000 9:16pm
Subject: glad to be a part of the group


Hi everyone! I have been struggling with this condition since
December of 1999 and perhaps longer without knowing what the source
of the problem was. At that time my oncologist told me that the
results of my last blood tests showed that the liver function levels
were elevated. I was referred to a gastroenterologist who sent me for
an ultra sound revealing that I have gall stones. Since then I have
done 3 flushes using epsom salts, olive oil and grapefruit juice.
Each time large numbers of stones were flushed and this last time,
some were quite large (the size of marbles). Had another ultra sound
today that revealed that I still have lots of gall stones. I know
that the gastroenterologist wants to do a procedure in which a camera
is passed down my throat and into an area where he can see if there
are any stones blocking the bile ducts. Needless to say, I do not
want to under go this procedure, nor do I want to lose my gall
bladder to surgery. Does anyone know how many flushes can be done
safely within a year? I read that it is recommended that two weeks
pass before doing another flush. Also, due to not being able to keep
down the epsom salt solution, I have begun to grind it up and put it
into gel capsules. This is the only method that has allowed me to
keep from vomitting the solution. I drink plenty of water with the
capsules but have found that the diahhrea begins immediately and
really burns when evacuating. It has been a really difficult process
but I am determined not to give up.

I would appreciate any comments or suggestions!

Becky


--------------------------
From: <MSIMS0960@...>
Date: Mon Jul 10, 2000 4:58pm
Subject: Relief of Allergies after Cleanses?


Hello everyone,
I've been trying to do a cleanse for the
last 2 years and 2 months ago I did one
and did everything wrong that you possibly
mess up. I got 10 -15 stones out and felt
miserable. Now I'm preparing for the next
one better. But my biggest question is,
will the cleanses eventually rid one of
allergies, heart palpitations, candida etc.
I have such bad shortness of breath that I
cannot excercise or do anything physical
anymore. I'm only 37 and very depressed
and sad about my condition. I really need
some hope that I get out of this chronic
illness pattern. I have been diagnosed
with gallstones when I was 20 years old
but never did much about it. They didn't
bother me that much or I thought.
I'm grateful for your input
Anette


---------

From: <Kalexan328@...>
Date: Thu Jul 13, 2000 7:40am
Subject: Success Stories


I am curious to know how many in our egroup have had success with the
flushes where they had no attacks for 1 year; 2 years?

I keep trying to manage my problem with flushes because I have had
3 friends who seem to have flushed their baby stones goodbye!

Lucy is the most dramatic... She was our Nanny for 6 years and at
times we would not see her much and she told us she had stomach
problems. Years later she revealed that she had gallstones since she
was 13 yaers old and in Mexico the treatment of choice was pain
killers. Now at age 23 she was told to have her gallbladder out.
She was having regular attacks... almost daily!

I had just flushed two months earlier, so I gave her the recipe. She
tried it and flushed out many "grape-sized" stones. She did the
flush again two weeks later... even though she would throw up the
olive oil and have to take a second dose!

Now 18 months later... NO PROBLEMS. She eats whatever she wants and
only complains that "no pain" is making her fat.

WOW... there must be someting to these flushes... but I am still
working on my success story. It is getting a bit embarrassing
fainting at business dinners and getting picked up off the hotel
lobby floor in France! I just think God gave us gallbladders for a
reason... Here I flush again...


--------------------

From: <Kalexan328@...>
Date: Wed Jul 12, 2000 11:11am
Subject: Six attacks & six flushes in 2 years


I have been flushing stones for two years now. After the first flush
I went 9 months without an attack. Now I get an attack about once
every 3-4 months. The last attack came 3 weeks after a flush...
yes, I was eating an egg roll!

Is my experience normal? Do those of us with sludgey gallbladders
face a lifetime of attacks unless we eat perfectly?

Does anyone take a pain killer when they get an attack or do you have
the baby natually like I do? I think I need some pain relief!

Thanks,

ken


---------------------
From: Ron Self <RLSELF@...>
Date: Thu Jul 20, 2000 9:59am
Subject: First Cleanse


Hello everyone,

I did my first cleanse on Saturday, July 08. I did not notice any
change in my condition or my general health the following day
(Sunday). However, on Monday, I awoke, wide awake, not groggy, full
of energy, for the first time in many years. I live in Miami and we
have extreme heat and humidity and am now able to work outside all
day long and not become winded and hardly even break a sweat.
Everyone around me is complaining about how unbearable the heat is
and I do not even notice the heat.

Has anyone else noticed a drastic change in their body temperature or
the perception of relative heat in general?

I cannot believe what a change the flush has made in my life and am
preparing to do another this Friday night. Since the first flush, I
no longer have any of the swelling and bloating and indigestion that
I had suffered with for years. I am full of energy. I just want to
say thanks that this list exist and thank everyone for their support.

I have one question that I would like to pose to the group:

I used grapefruit juice with the olive oil. My wife now wants to give
the flush a try. The problem is that she is dangerously allergic to
grapefruit and it's juice. It causes her to have a serious drop in
blood pressure and can cause unconsciousness. Can she use orange
juice or another type of fruit juice? Is it the acid in the juice
that is important? Will any othe juice still cause the same reaction
(the flushing of stones)? Please advise if you have tried other
juices with the olive oil and had success. Thanks in advance.

Ron

---------------


From: <jrobb4148@...>
Date: Wed Aug 9, 2000 10:02am
Subject: 1st gallstone flush


After reading non stop for two days, I am convinced of trying the
gallbladder flush tonight. I certainly appreciate all the
information and encouragement people have put into their messages on
this board and others.
This is my 3rd day of an apple juice fast. I have also had a
couple of plums and a small salad last night as I was really getting
spacey. Anyway, I assume that the apple juice has done its softening
thing on the stones and I will continue the fast today. I am very
hopeful that this will eleviate my problem with gallstones in the
gallbladder and allow me to avoid my scheduled surgery on the 29th of
August. I have found Lite Olive Oil and Virgin Olive Oil but not both
in the same bottle. I will try to find some again today. I will post
results of my 1st flush tomorrow.
Jerome


From: <jrobb4148@...>
Date: Thu Aug 10, 2000 12:16pm
Subject: 1st Flush. wow!


Thanks to you all for the encouaging words,
After a 3 day apple juice fast ,I comlpeted the liver/gallbladder
flush this morning. Everything went fine until about 11:00pm last
night. I did not take any sleeping aid and was awake most of the
night with only short sleeps of maybe 1/2 hour at the most. After
consuming the oil/citrus at 10pm I layed on my right side for 1/2
hour followed by another 1/2 hour on my back with good images of what
was taking place. When I tried to lay on my side to go to sleep I got
tremendous pains in my middle and would hiccup a few times, releasing
an oily odor from my mouth. I would have to sit up on the edge of the
bed until the pain passed and then I tried to lay on my back in a
more upright position, propped up with pillows. This position helped,
but as I would start to dose off my position might change and I would
be woken up by the pains reaching from my stomach to my throat. I
assume now that these were the stones passing their way along, but it
was very painful and worrisome. I was fearful that maybe a stone had
gotten lodged in an inappropriate location. the pains continued
through the night and did not cease until about 9am.
Starting an hour after my 3rd epsom salts in the morning, the
jackpot hit with about 300 small stones ranging from the size and
color of a fresh green pea to diminshing sizes. The majority were
green but there were also tan or yellowish stones too. The tan ones
were particularly waxy and a little more crumbly whereas the green
ones were definitly firm/gelitin-like and waxy. Looks like
cholesterol to me. I took pictures of them on a small plate and put
the largest ones in a jar to show the doctor.
Now, I have to figure out a good diet until my next flush. I will
call the surgeon and cancel my surgery as I am now a believer in
taking charge of this siituation and trying my best to keep my
gallbladder intact. From my readings I am not sure whether to wait
two weeks or two months before I flush again. Any input?
thanks, Jerome

From: <jrobb4148@...>
Date: Thu Aug 10, 2000 3:15pm
Subject: wow! cont...


It would seem by my painful experience with the flush last night
that I indeed was having a gallstone attack during the flush. I had
steady severe pain in the upper abdomen that increased raipidly and
lasted from several minutes to longer for hours. I had colic, gas,
belching, indigestion, nausea and small amount of vomitting along
with chills. For a first time experience this was not pleasant.
Everything I have read has said, "no pain." Wow, was I surprised!
This afternoon I passed about 10 more, with one being especially
large, 1.5 cm. I hope the next time I do this it is more as others
have experienced, and not so tramatic.
I have had trouble with indigestion and severe stomach pains in
the evenings periodically for years. It is caused by the entrance
flap to the stomach flipping into the open position and the stomach
acid flows back up the esphagus and burns the lining, which is very
painful. The symtoms last night seemed similar. I normally take
Zantac and/or a sleeping pill called Ambien to relieve the situation.
But I was afraid I might cause some interference with the flush so I
didn't take the Zantac or Ambien.
Does anyone have a comment on using a stomach acid reducer or
sleeping aid the next time I do a flush?
thanks, Jerome
---------------



-------------------
From: <Kalexan328@...>
Date: Tue Aug 15, 2000 11:09pm
Subject: Flush or fiction?


Obviously we will not settle the "flush or fiction" debate this
week... after all, the debate has raged for over 100 years.

35 years ago my mother suffered greatly with gallstones. After a few
months of suffering she opted to "flush." She never had another
attack again... although she would always burp when we would rub her
shoulders.

Two years ago our 20 year old nanny complained that she had been told
she needed a $5000 operation to remove her gb. She said that since
she was 13 she would go to the hospital and be given pain killers
with regular attacks. Now she was having attacks daily and the
doctors wanted to operate, but she had no money to pay. Her first
flush produced grape sized stones, her second flush two weeks later
produced next to nothing... Two years later... not one sign of an
attack or indigestion just a little diahrea when drinking milk!

No... I'm not so lucky, but I know that a week after each flush all
symptoms go away... not stomach aches or attacks for 3-9 months.

Conclusion: The flush may not be a cureall... if you want a magic
bullet... go find an MD with a knife. You don't really need the gb
anyway... God just made a stupid mistake by including that little
sac...

My Dad and sister had theirs out and went on to eat whatever they
wanted... just about 70-100 pounds over-weight each one of them.
Could it be we need that little sac? I'd take 1-2 attack a year for
the rest of my if it keeps my eating habits right and my weight under
control... Remember, we may be the lucky few when heed the warning
signs of poor diet and take the hard, yet rewarding road to great
health with a little bit of pain when we cheat! ken

-------------------

From: Diane Combs <totustuus@...>
Date: Wed Aug 16, 2000 7:34pm
Subject: To flush or not to flush


This is such and interesting debate. I think that the anecdotes from
people who got out large stones are pretty convincing. It isn't
proof pos though. However, trusting soul that I am, I do believe
this can work to flush stones. I flushed once and got a load of
greenies and next time I flush I will screen because I didn't really
look to see past the floaters to the sinkers and check out if there
were some bonafied calicium stones. After my flush I had the worst
gallbladder attack of all time. Apparently the stone had tried to
move out of the gallbladder and got stuck in the neck. My stone was
an inch and a quarter last time it was measured by the ultrasound.
According to the doctors, it is way to large to pass even if the
flush could work. Anyway.. I am now trying the stone crushing
herbs and I eat only raw foods. My health has improved immensely and
I haven't had an attack in months! However, I am convinced my stone
is still in there. Sometimes I feel a poking feeling in that area.
I am going to do a parasite cleanse and then try flushing again. I
would have done that earlier but I didn't want to do the parasite
cleanse until cherry season is over. I wait all year for cherry
season and that is one of the foods not recommended when doing the
parasite cleanse. Actually the only fruit recommended is apples and
cranberries. So.. cherry season is almost over and the parasite
cleanse will begin. PRobably next week. I hope I can get that big
ol stone out with the flush. Good health..

Diane
---------------------------------------------


From: Dale Williams <Da_Williams@...>
Date: Wed Aug 16, 2000 8:45pm
Subject: Re: Softening of gallstones


I primarily used the GCG and didn't have the Hydrangea Root until around August
of 99. I took the GCG for about three weeks before my first flush. I took it
mainly because when I was told I had A Stone that is all I was able to
ascertain regarding having stones. So I felt a need to breakup whatever may be
there since all I could get from my doctor or the hospital was that I had "A"
Stone. I took my GCG in fresh squeezed apple juice, which I also drank the
weeks before the flush. I must admit, I really thought with all the stones I
got out on that first flush that I didn't have anymore. But as I learned latter
stones develop in the liver and are passed into the gallbladder where they will
grow in size as time goes on. So, the stones in the liver, then, move and let
others come forward. That is the reason why it is figured that thousands of
stones need to pass before the liver is cleared of a major amount of them. And
that is why the flush is called a liver and gallbladder flush. Dale
Da_Williams@...

----------------------------------
From: E+JW <jw.rensink@...>
Date: Tue Jul 25, 2000 7:17am
Subject: out


After being in pain for more than a month (almost all day) and after having 4
attacks a week (longest one: 22 hours) I couldn't deal with this anymore, so
last week my gallbladder has been removed. In spring I was doing very well
after having pain during some weeks, but the stuff I used before, didn't help
me now. I was also watching my food and EFA's for a long time, but before this
I was always eating healthy, I'm 55 kg's, so it wasn't my way of living that
caused the troubles. Now I couldn't take it much longer, physically and also
mentally, felt like a time-bomb. They took out a 21 mm.stone and several little
ones. I am reliefed the congestion has gone, but for a long time I was thinking
the alternative way worked for me, more's the pity. Every day I read the mails,
and gave me the feeling I wasn't alone in this. I learned a lot from you! Wish
you all the luck! Edith / Holland.