--- In DrClark@y..., "Jennifer Sather" <whitewave77@h...> wrote:



I understand what you are saying and your concerns. I just think that
them
saying what they said is an over-reaction, based on what I've read
online
from others who have done it and what I and friends have experienced,
as
I've never heard of even one time where the flush caused a blockage,
and
many times where it unblocked one. And I've been a nurse for 24 years
(not
bragging- just saying I've seen a lot), and just in the past few
months I've
seen several gallbladder surgeries gone bad, to where it makes me
think that
ther doctors ways are much more dangerous than the flushes. One
patient who
had the surgery had a doctor who nicked her main artery, and she lost
1500ml
of blood in surgery, and the doctors sent her to our regular floor as
if she
was okay, she went into shock and we had to rush her to intensive
care, and
she had to have blood. Another one had the surgery and doc nicked her
bowel,
and she got peritonitis real bad, had about 10 different drains
coming out
of her, a huge open wound on her abdomen, and has been in the
hospital for
several months trying to heal, having repeated surgeries to try and
drain
the poison out of her. Another one was an old lady who came in in
pretty
good shape but had a medical problem (not a real serious one) and
when they
scanned her they found she had gallstones (most people do) and even
though
she wasn't having any pain they took out her gallbladder, and the
surgery
drained her so much that she became unresponsive. Her daughter was
crying in
her room trying to figure out how she got this bad, and the doctor
told me
he was going to come in in the morning and tell the daughter that she
was
probably going to die and there is nothing we can do for her. So when
someone (especially a doctor) tells people that the flushes, or
herbs, or
natural treatment are dangerous I think about how dangerous being
treated by
a doctor is, and tend to laugh at that statement. Those you spoke of
as
being naturopathic doctors surprised me, as it surprises me that they
would
say that. Oh well! But needing supervision because of a possible
chance of
one in a billion- I don't agree with that. There is a chance that
taking an
aspirin could cause you to bleed internally and get in trouble, but
we take
them anyway, and taking an enema at home could possibly cause a bowel
perforation, or some other problem, but people don't think twice
about doing
it without supervision, etc. I think a flush is too safe to worry
about such
a slight possibility. And even if a stone did get stuck, it really
doesn't
become life threatening unless it stays there for perhaps a few days
and
causes an infection that could poison the body. It mainly causes a
lot of
pain. But seldom do they do emergency gallbladder surgeries- they
give pain
meds and do them the next day, except in rare occasions, from what
I've
experienced at work.

----- Original Message -----
From: "bigbird3969" <bigbird3969@m...>
To: <DrClark@y...>
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 8:34 AM
Subject: [DrClark] re: Liver flush validity


> I would doubt seriously that two naturopathic doctors (one a
professor)
from the prestigious Bastyr University would have any reason to keep
people
scared into waiting on surgery, or keeping them in business, except
for the
reason of the small, but possible chance that they (the stones) do
create a
obstruction; which, as a doctor, they would be totally irresponsible
in
suggesting self treating w/o supervision if there is any chance in a
billion!! Second, self experience does account for something, but (to
play
devils advocate) your body makes and needs cholesterol, and according
to
their accusation, stones. If that's the case, you're adjustment in
living
habits, etc., after the original flush "could be due to cleared
stones, or
less cholesterol accumulation, which is normal in the liver, as it is
stored, and converted there!
>
> I have not tried the flush, so I gave one side of it to give the
explanation for what's "on the internet" , and advise to search both
sides,
and do the flush supervised by a knowledgeable doctor, naturopath,
etc., in
case the 1 in whatever chance of blockage DOES occur! Also, unless
you've
had a more professional analysis than playing with a spoon, don't so
adamantly dispel possibilities, as if there's only one answer. I know
people
who have tried, and swear by these alternatives, are, and should be
very
supportive, and want to spread the word, but I would hate to be the
one that
set someone up for that 1 in whatever chance to have major (perhaps)
life
threatening complications! Also, firing out accusations about
someone's
beliefs that are more educated than mine, puts me down on the level
that I
was accusing them of! I hate what most of the medical establishment
stands
for, too, but I am not foolish enough to think that we need no
doctors, and
that
> doctors who push only all natural lifestyles, supplements, etc., are
stupid, or crooked because they tell you that there are chances (no
matter
how small) that you MIGHT shouldn't take; at least, on your own!!
>
> I am not trying to belittle, or berate your oppinions, as I'm far
from an
expert, on any of this stuff; plus that puts me on the level with
the "other
side" that DOES have an axe to grind!!
>
> In Health,
> Steve
>
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