Hi Jody,
   your post really made me smile today! I hope your weekend was a good one and
you remembered to do something extra special for yourself.
   Hugs,
   Claudia



                   The Serenity Prayer
   God, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And Wisdom to know the difference. Amen









---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally,  mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The book is called "Lethal Lovers and Poisonous People ... How to protect your
health from relationships that make you sick".  It is by Harriet B. Braiker,
Ph.D.  It gives techniques to detoxify harmful significant relationships. 

Christine


-----Original Message-----
From: Theresa Vogel <snowangel1225@...>
To: codependents <codependents@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 9:40 am
Subject: {CoDependents} Book






Someone had posted about a book they recommended dealing with toxic
relationships or something like that. I thought I had saved the email, but
can't find it anywhere. The paranoid side of me is a little afraid that my
bf might have gotten into my email account and deleted the email. Could
someone resend the book title for me?

Thanks~

Theresa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi;
This thought for today resonates deeply with me.
I have been working on forgiveness towards my parents for a long
time.  Their actions though keep requiring my forgiveness.  They are
still emotionally abusive and put themselves and the warped view
point of my childhood in front of me every time I saw them. Things
that should have been under my parents control are still viewed as my
fault because of my personality.  Reading about emotional abusiveness
has made it clear to me that the way they turn things around to be a
child's fault all these years later, is a clear indicator they are
still being abusive.  They do not hear what I say, only that I am
causing them pain by my being in pain.
  I cut them out of my life 5 months ago.  I could no longer keep
allowing them to twist things to be my fault and have to keep
pleasing them to gain any love and attention.  I was close to suicide
when I finally decided enough was enough.  I know why my mother is
the way she is.  I know she was abused and I know my father was too.
There failure to acknowledge that the dynamics that are still going
on, that I have to play their games to get any peace in my life, has
made me reach this decision.  I have confronted them and apologized
for my role in the on going co-dependence I have with them.  Now I
have chosen to let go and heal as much as I can.   I know that I
still need to forgive for myself and that does not mean allowing them
to continue to play head games and hurt me.  I am working on
forgiving myself as well as them.  I am just sorry that it had to
come to me cutting them out of my life.

--- In CoDependents@yahoogroups.com, "mary_canfield2003"
<marycanfield@...> wrote:
>
>
> ==================================
> The following is from "Hope for Today"
> An Al-Anon daily meditation reader approved
> by World Service Conference Al-Anon Family
> Groups (c) 2002 Al-Anon Family Group
> Headquarters, Inc
> ----------------------
>
> Hope for Today - September 30
>
> ... I was ready to confront my alcoholic father. I
> wanted to let him know that I remembered every
> detail of all times in my childhood when he hurt me.
> That way he could apologize to me and I would be
> healed. However, he refused to talk about it. He said
> it was water over the dam! I was furious. How could
> those wrongs be righted if he didn't admit them and
> tell me was sorry?
> ... By applying the tools of the Al-Anon program, I
> slowly tried to accept the thing I could not change --
> my father's refusal to apologize -- and to change the
> thing I could -- my attitude toward the situation.
> Learning more about alcoholism as a disease taught me
> that my father wasn't a bad person. He was a person
> with a disease that made him do bad things. Practicing
> "Live and Let Live" and keeping the focus on myself
> taught me to attend to my own behavior. I needed to
> make sure I wasn't practicing the very behaviors that
> have caused me so much anguish. By seeking my part in
> the hurt I felt, I learned that my hold on the pain of the
> injury itself, was what I could do something about.
> ... Eventually I realized I didn't need my father's
> apology in order to get better. I can move on by
> praying to lose my resentments and to replace them
> with forgiveness.
>
> Thought for the Day
> ... Forgiveness is something I do with my Higher
> Power's help, and I do it for me. I don't need
> anyone's apology to begin my healing process.
>
> ... "By releasing resentment, I set myself free."
> ... *Courage to Change* , p. 289
>

It seems to be taking forever for me to move on with my life and find
peace and happiness. I'm 47, and though they say life starts at 50,
I'm not sure what they are talking about. Is it because I have a list
so long, of all the things I'm not going to be doing again? That list
is a little overwhelming...  So its hard for me to trust people and
let them get close, I've been out with three women since I divorced
this angry person, my ex, and I notice it breaks off a little too
easily.  Well, gotto try again.

I had a bad (suicidal) spell a few weeks ago, and I discovered this
group and so that certainly helps.  I have to remind myself, I went
through 12 years of the ex's coldness and anger and mind twisting
arguements,    - thats a long time of weird emotional reality. Maybe
it takes a little while to get back to enjoying this sweet world.

Peace, Hugh


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I finally ended a 17 year marriage with a husband that was abusing pain
medication for seven years and had no emotions left for me and his three
daughters. He turned into such a cold, uncaring person, refused to talk to any
of us.Yet I continue to grieve the loss. I can't seem to move on with my life. I
am 52 years old and feel too old to start over with anyone else and have loss so
much of my self-esteem. I loved being a wife and taking care of my family but I
couldn't compete against his addiction to morphine. I am very angry but don't
know where to direct my anger except against myself. At times I feel suicidal
but will continue on until my children are grown.

---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Everyone,
I hope your weekend is a great one! Wow, my mailbox is full of posts
and I want to read them,but I don't have time right now...lol...I just
wanted to pop in and wish everyone a good weekend!
Claudia :)

==================================
The following is from "Hope for Today"
An Al-Anon daily meditation reader approved
by World Service Conference Al-Anon Family
Groups (c) 2002 Al-Anon Family Group
Headquarters, Inc
----------------------

Hope for Today - September 30

... I was ready to confront my alcoholic father. I
wanted to let him know that I remembered every
detail of all times in my childhood when he hurt me.
That way he could apologize to me and I would be
healed. However, he refused to talk about it. He said
it was water over the dam! I was furious. How could
those wrongs be righted if he didn't admit them and
tell me was sorry?
... By applying the tools of the Al-Anon program, I
slowly tried to accept the thing I could not change --
my father's refusal to apologize -- and to change the
thing I could -- my attitude toward the situation.
Learning more about alcoholism as a disease taught me
that my father wasn't a bad person. He was a person
with a disease that made him do bad things. Practicing
"Live and Let Live" and keeping the focus on myself
taught me to attend to my own behavior. I needed to
make sure I wasn't practicing the very behaviors that
have caused me so much anguish. By seeking my part in
the hurt I felt, I learned that my hold on the pain of the
injury itself, was what I could do something about.
... Eventually I realized I didn't need my father's
apology in order to get better. I can move on by
praying to lose my resentments and to replace them
with forgiveness.

Thought for the Day
... Forgiveness is something I do with my Higher
Power's help, and I do it for me. I don't need
anyone's apology to begin my healing process.

... "By releasing resentment, I set myself free."
... *Courage to Change* , p. 289

Today's thought from Hazelden is:

...praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to
carry that out.
-- Second half of Step Eleven

Step Eleven teaches us how to pray. We pray for God's will to replace
ours. Our will got us in trouble. God's will guides us to simple
serenity. We pray for power to live a spiritual life. This is
important, for it takes much strength and courage to live a spiritual
life.

The sober path is not always easy. It takes self-discipline. We have
to say no to our self-will. We follow God's will for us. The rewards
are great. We get sobriety. We get serenity. We get friendship. We
regain our family. We get a deep, loving relationship with a Higher
Power who wants peace and joy for us and for the world.

Prayer for the Day

Dear Higher Power, I pray the words of Step Eleven. I pray to know
Your will for me. And I pray that I have the power to carry out Your
will.

Action for the Day

I will examine my life. I will look to see how my will gets in the
way of God's will.

You are reading from the book:

Keep It Simple by Anonymous

Keep It Simple. Copyright 1989 by Hazelden Foundation. All rights
reserved. Printed in the United States of America. No portion of this
publication may be reproduced in any manner without the written
permission of Hazelden.

Hello,

   My name is Julie. I am a writer too...so hopefully we can keep in touch. I
wouldn't mind seeing some of your writing sometime, and you could see some of
mine perhaps...anyway...

   How are you doing? I know you sent this e-mail a day or two ago.

   I am not sure I fully understand your situation-but I didn't read your
previous e-mails yet either. Can you say in one or two sentences what your
question is?

   And if I am not correct...you are trying to be friends again with people who
do not want to be your friend? That is almost what it sounds like to me, but if
I am wrong please correct me.

   My experience simply this:

   I don't care to waste my time trying to be friends with people who don't
really want to be my friend. If they don't like me that is their problem, not
mine, barring any hurtful things I could have said and done.

   However, I also understand that people's rejection of me is often nothing to
do with anything I may or may not have said or done.  See, I have noticed over
the years also that..no matter how nice I am to another person that person still
might not care enough to reciprocate.

   So, I just say hey...fine...if that person doesn't think I am good enough to
be friends with him/her than...again that is that person's problem, and not
mine.

   I can say I am somewhat the opposite of you. I often don't need anybody.
However, there are times when I fall into the trap of trying to fix and change a
boyfriend that I am with-or he will try to fix and change me. In that case...

   I think if two people are not happy with each other as who they are...then
they should not be together.

   If they are married...then the two people should either accept the decision
they made, learn to appreciate the good in the person they have married...or...I
don't like the idea of divorce...but if there is no other way..then I guess
divorce is in order in that case.

   I hope I have helped with the little bit that I understand of your situation.
Now, it doesn't mean that I am devoid problems. I often worry about what people
think of me and that prevents me from getting to close to them. That is sortof a
"reverse codependent" thing...I guess you could say.

   Sometimes also I pick the wrong people to hang out with just because I am glad
someone likes me. It sucks though when that happens because then I am not truly
fulfilled inside knowing that I want to hang out with people I have more in
common with.

   I am doing a lot of searching right now as well. Trying to figure out who I
really am so I can attract the right people to me. But, it never hurts to make
new friends along that journey-some friends that will be with me for life while
others will only be with me for a short time.

   Julie


Theresa <tlr28@...> wrote:

Evening :-).

I feel silly and inane for even asking this, but ... if one of your
codependenices revolved strongly around some of your strong interests
before you became codependent - how do you put the codependent part
behind you and allow yourself the freedom to/and enjoy them again, on
your own terms and your own self?

I met my "friend" many many years ago through two very strong
interests: the actor Robert Lansing, and writing. We became friends,
and that grew to wonderful friends, but somewhere along the way it
turned into dependency for me in both areas. In early 2004, she
abruptly ended the friendship, and she and her other "close" friends
refuse to acknowledge I even exist. One of their complaints was that
I was passive-aggressive, which I can be, but I was definitely also dependent.

I had a few months of weekly therapy in late 2004 from a therapist in
training - focusing on self-esteem - and some anxiety medication from
my usual doctor. Both had to be discontinued when I lost my part
time job and ran out of money, another situation that I have had
reoccur for lengthy periods of time (this last one for almost over a
year and a half, though for part of that time I had student loan
overcharges, and so forth.) I have tried to do a lot of self-help
and inner work since then.

If you read maxandoreo2003's email from 9/12/2007, it describes a
lot of what went on with me strongly during that time - I wanted the
relationship(s) back the way they were at all/any costs. I still
catch myself wanting that at times, and/or being jealous when either
of them get accolades, even though they are well-earned and I recognize that.

However, for some strange, stupid reason, these women are still
affecting my decisions/feelings/connections in both areas here - and
expanding the writing to any and all creating. There are
other people on the Robert Lansing and related lists that I care
about and wish to remain friends with, and I've tried a time or two,
but there's always been this mental block in my mind - sometimes,
like now, it infuriates me. I know somewhere inside that one of the
strong reasons that I am having so much trouble making myself find a
job is because next June is another convention/get-together, and I'll
see and have to deal with both of them. One of them is one of the
heads of the group, so her not being there is not going to
happen. If I'm not working, or struggling to make ends meet
monetarily, then not only does someone else have to take care of me
(another dependency/co-dependency issue that's too long and
sidetracking to go into in this email) but I can't go to the
convention because I don't have the money (again).

My feelings are kind of jumbled up around this. I have several
writings that need to be finished and posted, and other group members
to reconnect with. Sometimes I get going with good ideas. Then this
little voice goes "but aren't you really doing this just to spite [my
exgirlfriends]?" and it all comes to a crashing halt. Or I don't
write and post something because she/they "might see it" ;well of
course they well, being on the same lists - duh!

Guess you can tell I've been trained since before birth to be a
people-pleaser and always put everyone else ahead of me
<sigh>. Another couple of things that I am unlearning.

I am a good writer. I could be much better if I would write, finish,
submit, be criticized, learn, and so forth. I enjoy being an artist
with color and so forth as well. I deserve to do much better by/for
myself - to love myself etc.

How do I get rid of that little voice so I can clear out this version
of my codependency?

Thanks
Theresa

Gentlemen, I believe we have much to discuss.
(Robert Lansing as Control, the Equalizer, "Trial By Ordeal" )






Writing Resume: http://www.ifreelance.com/pro/7457

   Feature Clips and Article Samples:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/fishtail1776
http://www.ifreelance.com/provider/portfolio.aspx?providerid=7457

Works In Progress:
http://writing.com/authors/fishtail1776


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Julie,
   Thanks for sharing this.
   I have a very hard time feeling happy. I am not making excuses but I have a
diagnosed anxiety disorder and severe depression. The depression has never
responded to any medication and/or psychotherapy. It is definitely genetic. I am
always afraid of what is going to happen next - like maybe my husband will die
of a heart attack and I will not be strong enough to make it without him. I
worry that maybe I will die before my son with Asperger's and Bi-Polar is able
to live on his own and be self-sufficient. I feel guilty that we had only one
child because when we die he will have no siblings, etc. these thoughts and
worries race thru my head all the time. It is very hard for me to keep my mind
in the present.
   When I am depressed I just want to isolate and not see any people other than
my husband and son. This has caused me to lose contact with dear friends and
family members.
   My husband gets so upset because he is always saying to me - you are not a
happy person. I have tried for twenty years to make you happy and you still
aren't happy.
   I know no one else can make us happy but I feel bad for him that he has to
have a wife like this. I feel guilty when he shares these feelings and then it
spirals into another viscous cycle.
   I honestly can say that I cannot remember one day in my whole life (I am 47
yrs old) when I didn't feel anxious. (and I take medication for anxiety) This
anxiety goes all the way back to my childhood.
   I feel like a loser.
   Kay


Julie Blodgett <fishtail1776@...> wrote:
           I am not really in that advanced of a stage of recovery as you think I
am. I do a lot of reading is all...but it is easier said than done. I do have a
tendency to still think in black and white good or bad. I am just saying that
deep down I know that is not true-although that is the way I am sometimes too.

I realize that I have been abused in my past and now I have to be careful not to
abuse others. I never did anything as horrible as the people in my past, but I
am ashamed to admit I feel that I am no better as my abusers.

I tried to change. But always wound up frustrated, putting myself in
unfullfilling situatioins that would cause anger and resentment to build up
within me. I am a very critical person and I have yelled at people a lot in my
lifetime.

Sometimes I am not a very nice person. However, at least I know that if people
respect me I will respect them. So, I am looking for more stable people or at
least people w ho care about recovery to talk to...for support.

I don't feel like I ever had enough support growing up or even now. I often feel
all alone...although at least for one evening I felt happy and content. That is
a start I guess.

Julie

AZTerri@... wrote:


Hi Julie:

With this attitude it sounds like you are in an advanced stage of recovery!
DR Irene (verbal abuse/codependency therapist and expert) refers to this as
the Yippee Personal Responsibility Stage:

"Yippee! Personal Responsibility Stage. Finally. You are very clear on
what's going on, you are able to stand up to your abuser (or anyone who is toxic
to you). You may have left. You have developed adequate self-control skills
and are less likely to be provoked!

Above all, you increasingly recognize that you are in control of your life -
and that you do not have the power to make another person happy or
miserable. You realize that your abuser (or anyone who mistreats you) is a
victim too,
but you know it is up to them to fix themselves - if they want. You feel
great about yourself!

Advice: Continue increasing your wonderful skills! Read books that target
your weak areas, remain aware, and Monday morning quarterback situations which
you wished you had handled differently. The next time something like the last
yukkily-handled situation comes up, you will be better prepared.

Warning: This stage is highly addictive. Congratulations and enjoy yourself!
Your personal power will grow with practice and you will become increasingly
adept at handling life's dilemmas. You may get so good at running your life,
you find that you only rarely Monday morning quarterback situations anymore.
You find yourself just intuitively handling them! Yippee!"

Otherwise, codependents have to be in a more advanced stage of recovery
themselves (otherwise they'd be almost codependent free or codependent no more)
before they:

1) Don't allow behavior that is destructive

2) Don't let anyone try to "get to them" because "they can't"

3) Accept/admit to making mistakes themselves (certainly not all, but there
are enough codependents who play the "martyr" role and blame everything on
everyone else at some juncture, even if initially they blamed it all on
themselves)

4) Don't even care anymore what other people think of them

5) Know that no matter what they have done they are not responsible for the
"bad" behavior of others

6) Know that they are only responsible for their own self

Putting all that aside, the word "bad" means injurious, harmful,
destructive, abusive, et al. Even so, the point of my previous post to Shannon
was not
whether or not people are truly good or bad, but that many codependents in the
early stage of recovery have a challenging time setting boundaries with
and/or leaving someone who behaves destructively because despite this behavior
they can convince themselves, "But he/she is not really a BAD person. He/she
doesn't mean to be BAD. He/she is GOOD underneath. He/she tries so hard to be
GOOD," ad nauseam.

As if whether or not they should protect themselves or get away from a toxic
individual is contingent upon how bad or good said individual is. This is an
unhealthy mindset that can keep codependents trapped in the cycle of abuse
because they invest all their time and energy into denying the bad, dismissing
the bad, or justifying the bad and trying to "bring forth" the good instead.

Terri

In a message dated 9/28/2007 8:03:30 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
fishtail1776@... writes:

I am confused...I really perhaps you were not talking to everyone...but
basically I thought co-dependent didn't actually have to do with whether or not
someone was "good or bad" (although there are certain types of people I would
consider as bad people).

I thought it had to do with allowing behavior that is destructive versus
allowing behavior that it not destructive. I myself can see in my life that
there are people who tend to try to strip my of my self-worth..and though I
myself have made mistakes...I am not going to let anyone try to "get to me"
because they "can't".

I don't even care any more what other people think of me. And...no matter
what I have done I am not responsible for the "bad" behavior that other people
have done. We are all only responsible for ourselves.

Julie

The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are
evil,
but because of the people who don't do anything about it. - Albert Einstein

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Writing Resume: http://www.ifreelance.com/pro/7457

Feature Clips and Article Samples:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/fishtail1776
http://www.ifreelance.com/provider/portfolio.aspx?providerid=7457

Works In Progress:
http://writing.com/authors/fishtail1776

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and
lay it on us.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Language of Letting Go by Melody Beattie is excellent.  Any book by her is
good.  Codependent No More is a good one.  Don't know if that is what you are
thinking of. Would recommend that you find a Coda meeting near you and attend
meetings.

Theresa Vogel <snowangel1225@...> wrote:          Someone had posted about
a book they recommended dealing with toxic
relationships or something like that. I thought I had saved the email, but
can't find it anywhere. The paranoid side of me is a little afraid that my
bf might have gotten into my email account and deleted the email. Could
someone resend the book title for me?

Thanks~

Theresa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am not really in that advanced of a stage of recovery as you think I am. I do
a lot of reading is all...but it is easier said than done. I do have a tendency
to still think in black and white good or bad. I am just saying that deep down I
know that is not true-although that is the way I am sometimes too.

   I realize that I have been abused in my past and now I have to be careful not
to abuse others. I never did anything as horrible as the people in my past, but
I am ashamed to admit I feel that I am no better as my abusers.

   I tried to change. But always wound up frustrated, putting myself in
unfullfilling situatioins that would cause anger and resentment to build up
within me. I am a very critical person and I have yelled at people a lot in my
lifetime.

   Sometimes I am not a very nice person. However, at least I know that if people
respect me I will respect them. So, I am looking for more stable people or at
least people w ho care about recovery to talk to...for support.

   I don't feel like I ever had enough support growing up or even now. I often
feel all alone...although at least for one evening I felt happy and content.
That is a start I guess.

   Julie

AZTerri@... wrote:


Hi Julie:

With this attitude it sounds like you are in an advanced stage of recovery!
DR Irene (verbal abuse/codependency therapist and expert) refers to this as
the Yippee Personal Responsibility Stage:

"Yippee! Personal Responsibility Stage. Finally. You are very clear on
what's going on, you are able to stand up to your abuser (or anyone who is toxic
to you). You may have left. You have developed adequate self-control skills
and are less likely to be provoked!

Above all, you increasingly recognize that you are in control of your life -
and that you do not have the power to make another person happy or
miserable. You realize that your abuser (or anyone who mistreats you) is a
victim too,
but you know it is up to them to fix themselves - if they want. You feel
great about yourself!

Advice: Continue increasing your wonderful skills! Read books that target
your weak areas, remain aware, and Monday morning quarterback situations which
you wished you had handled differently. The next time something like the last
yukkily-handled situation comes up, you will be better prepared.

Warning: This stage is highly addictive. Congratulations and enjoy yourself!
Your personal power will grow with practice and you will become increasingly
adept at handling life's dilemmas. You may get so good at running your life,
you find that you only rarely Monday morning quarterback situations anymore.
You find yourself just intuitively handling them! Yippee!"

Otherwise, codependents have to be in a more advanced stage of recovery
themselves (otherwise they'd be almost codependent free or codependent no more)
before they:

1) Don't allow behavior that is destructive

2) Don't let anyone try to "get to them" because "they can't"

3) Accept/admit to making mistakes themselves (certainly not all, but there
are enough codependents who play the "martyr" role and blame everything on
everyone else at some juncture, even if initially they blamed it all on
themselves)

4) Don't even care anymore what other people think of them

5) Know that no matter what they have done they are not responsible for the
"bad" behavior of others

6) Know that they are only responsible for their own self

Putting all that aside, the word "bad" means injurious, harmful,
destructive, abusive, et al. Even so, the point of my previous post to Shannon
was not
whether or not people are truly good or bad, but that many codependents in the
early stage of recovery have a challenging time setting boundaries with
and/or leaving someone who behaves destructively because despite this behavior
they can convince themselves, "But he/she is not really a BAD person. He/she
doesn't mean to be BAD. He/she is GOOD underneath. He/she tries so hard to be
GOOD," ad nauseam.

As if whether or not they should protect themselves or get away from a toxic
individual is contingent upon how bad or good said individual is. This is an
unhealthy mindset that can keep codependents trapped in the cycle of abuse
because they invest all their time and energy into denying the bad, dismissing
the bad, or justifying the bad and trying to "bring forth" the good instead.

Terri


In a message dated 9/28/2007 8:03:30 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
fishtail1776@... writes:

I am confused...I really perhaps you were not talking to everyone...but
basically I thought co-dependent didn't actually have to do with whether or not
someone was "good or bad" (although there are certain types of people I would
consider as bad people).

I thought it had to do with allowing behavior that is destructive versus
allowing behavior that it not destructive. I myself can see in my life that
there are people who tend to try to strip my of my self-worth..and though I
myself have made mistakes...I am not going to let anyone try to "get to me"
because they "can't".

I don't even care any more what other people think of me. And...no matter
what I have done I am not responsible for the "bad" behavior that other people
have done. We are all only responsible for ourselves.

Julie

The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are
evil,
but because of the people who don't do anything about it. - Albert Einstein

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Writing Resume: http://www.ifreelance.com/pro/7457

   Feature Clips and Article Samples:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/fishtail1776
http://www.ifreelance.com/provider/portfolio.aspx?providerid=7457

Works In Progress:
http://writing.com/authors/fishtail1776


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

==================================
The following is from "Hope for Today"
An Al-Anon daily meditation reader approved
by World Service Conference Al-Anon Family
Groups (c) 2002 Al-Anon Family Group
Headquarters, Inc
----------------------

Hope for Today - September 29

... I can remember a time when sex was as easy as
rolling off a log. Now even rolling off a log is not as
easy as it used to be. I'm mature, and my body has
more limitations than it used to have.
... I also have more responsibilities than I once had.
My life is more structured and less spontaneous. The
positive aspect of responsibility and structure is that
both allow me the pursuit of interests that bring me
pleasure. Still, I find it difficult to allow intimate and
spontaneous time with my wife.
... What to do? Surprising to me, the most glaring
oversight in my intimate experience is a failure to
include my Higher Power. My sense of practicing Al-
Anon's principles in all my affairs, as suggested in
Step Twelve, invites me to ask for guidance from my
Higher Power even in matters I once might have
considered too personal.

Thought for the Day
... My Higher Power is my partner in everything I do.
Today I can include God in my entire life, even areas I
once considered off-limits.

... "I don't mean to imply that I have found the magic
... formula for sexual enjoyment, but I do believe in
... changing the things I can. In my particular case,
... that meant putting the whole issue in the hands of
... God."
*. . . In All Our Affairs*, p. 115

Today's thought from Hazelden is:

That's what happens when you're angry at people. You make them part
of your life.
--Garrison Keillor

Our problems with anger and our problems in relationships go hand in
hand. Some of us have held back our anger, which led to resentment of
our loved ones. Some of us have indulged our anger and become
abusive. Some of us have been so frightened of anger that we closed
off the dialogue in our relationships when angry feelings came out.

Some of us have wasted our energy by focusing anger on people who
weren't really important to us. Do we truly want them to become so
important? Yet, perhaps the important relationships got frozen
because we weren't open and respectful with our anger. It isn't
possible to be close to someone without being angry at times. We let
our loved ones be part of our lives by feeling our anger when it is
there and expressing it openly, directly, and respectfully to them -
or by hearing them when they are angry. Then, with dialogue, we can
let it go.

I will be aware of those people I am making important in my life and
will grow in dealing with my anger.

You are reading from the book:

Touchstones by Anonymous

Touchstones. Copyright 1986, 1991 by Hazelden Foundation. All rights
reserved. Printed in the United States of America. No portion of this
publication may be reproduced in any manner without the written
permission of Hazelden.

Someone had posted about a book they recommended dealing with toxic
relationships or something like that.  I thought I had saved the email, but
can't find it anywhere.  The paranoid side of me is a little afraid that my
bf might have gotten into my email account and deleted the email.  Could
someone resend the book title for me?

Thanks~

Theresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you Christine for your encouragement!

-- In CoDependents@yahoogroups.com, ProudAcups@... wrote:
>
>
>
> Jody said:? "When i feel weak, i read your posts and they give me
strength."
> Keep reading them and not responding to his chaos.? You're on the
right track.
>
> Christine
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jaymaddh <jaymaddh@...>
> To: CoDependents@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 9:37 pm
> Subject: {CoDependents} Saying hello and your messages have given
me strength
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
> I'm a newbie and wanted you all to know in the last few days my
> lurking on your site has given me strength when i need it very much.
>
> I recently left my cocaine/pill addict boyfriend of a year which
was
> very difficult because he controlled all the finances and i have a
> four year old. After leaving him i attempted suicide, was
> hospitalized and continued to bottom even after, drinking and
taking
> ativan while reading his abusive texts calling me a whore, etc.,
and
> him calling me being sweet, then when I wouldn't or couldn't attend
> to his needs, name calling threats, etc. Finally, after putting my
> daughter in the car drunk and on ativan, and backing it into my
> garage door, (divine intervention that i wasn't able to leave) i
said
> enough is enough, was honest and asked for help from my family and
> friends i know who love me. Yes my family is codependent, but, has
> softened over the years and i had bigger problems than them. Yes
the
> hospital stabilized me, but, i wasn't dealing with my real issues,
> which is primarily codependency on my boyfriend, wanting to fix him
> and have him fix me to fill up the emptiness in my soul. I have
> broken free of my boyfriend who is trying everything to engage with
> me, charm, loving words, then financial and career threats, etc.
> When i feel weak, i read your posts and they give me strength. I
have
> not responded to any of this chaos.
>
> God Bless and thank you all.
> Jody
>
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

48 hours of quiet from the Monster, my xbf and this is the emails i
get sent 6x's each....  cut and pasted by the way


Email #1 from him today, sent 6x's

Monster:
You never answered me on M-care?????????
You never answered me on M-care?????????
You never answered me on M-care?????????
You never answered me on M-care?????????
You never answered me on M-care?????????
You never answered me on M-care?????????

Next one from monster:

Three attempts to get an answer , I guess M-care is cancelled along
with the thousands of dollars I loaned you?
Three attempts to get an answer , I guess M-care is cancelled along
with the thousands of dollars I loaned you?
Three attempts to get an answer , I guess M-care is cancelled along
with the thousands of dollars I loaned you?
Three attempts to get an answer , I guess M-care is cancelled along
with the thousands of dollars I loaned you?

3x's more and i refuse to be responsible for your eyes to bug out!!!
This guy is not only drug addict but he can't count either!!!!  What
a loser.

ME: (yes, copied directly from Claudia's suggestion my sent email
reply pasted below!)
I'm done and there is no reason for any further
communication between us, do not contact me
again for any reason

What a moron.  You called the police on me, and expect no
repercussions for your behavior.  By the way the money he wants from
me is 1/2 trips we took, groceries we all ate, etc., except the
insurance premiums he volunteered to pay.  Too bad, boo hoo!!!!  It
feels so good to have the last word, i know it may be codependent to
want it, but, God, it felt so so so GOOD!

Jody

Thank you Terri for the explanation.  I wasnt sure how to answer her.  I am
truly in the very beginning stages.  I appreciate the input and I hope that
reading all these posts will sink it at some point.  I do deny the abuse and
dismiss it or pretend it isnt as bad.  I have told myself many times if it
happens again I am definitely leaving.  Obviously that didnt work.  I have been
going to church for a little over a month.  I am struggling big time with all
this.

AZTerri@... wrote:

Hi Julie:

With this attitude it sounds like you are in an advanced stage of recovery!
DR Irene (verbal abuse/codependency therapist and expert) refers to this as
the Yippee Personal Responsibility Stage:

"Yippee! Personal Responsibility Stage. Finally. You are very clear on
what's going on, you are able to stand up to your abuser (or anyone who is toxic
to you). You may have left. You have developed adequate self-control skills
and are less likely to be provoked!

Above all, you increasingly recognize that you are in control of your life -
and that you do not have the power to make another person happy or
miserable. You realize that your abuser (or anyone who mistreats you) is a
victim too,
but you know it is up to them to fix themselves - if they want. You feel
great about yourself!

Advice: Continue increasing your wonderful skills! Read books that target
your weak areas, remain aware, and Monday morning quarterback situations which
you wished you had handled differently. The next time something like the last
yukkily-handled situation comes up, you will be better prepared.

Warning: This stage is highly addictive. Congratulations and enjoy yourself!
Your personal power will grow with practice and you will become increasingly
adept at handling life's dilemmas. You may get so good at running your life,
you find that you only rarely Monday morning quarterback situations anymore.
You find yourself just intuitively handling them! Yippee!"

Otherwise, codependents have to be in a more advanced stage of recovery
themselves (otherwise they'd be almost codependent free or codependent no more)
before they:

1) Don't allow behavior that is destructive

2) Don't let anyone try to "get to them" because "they can't"

3) Accept/admit to making mistakes themselves (certainly not all, but there
are enough codependents who play the "martyr" role and blame everything on
everyone else at some juncture, even if initially they blamed it all on
themselves)

4) Don't even care anymore what other people think of them

5) Know that no matter what they have done they are not responsible for the
"bad" behavior of others

6) Know that they are only responsible for their own self

Putting all that aside, the word "bad" means injurious, harmful,
destructive, abusive, et al. Even so, the point of my previous post to Shannon
was not
whether or not people are truly good or bad, but that many codependents in the
early stage of recovery have a challenging time setting boundaries with
and/or leaving someone who behaves destructively because despite this behavior
they can convince themselves, "But he/she is not really a BAD person. He/she
doesn't mean to be BAD. He/she is GOOD underneath. He/she tries so hard to be
GOOD," ad nauseam.

As if whether or not they should protect themselves or get away from a toxic
individual is contingent upon how bad or good said individual is. This is an
unhealthy mindset that can keep codependents trapped in the cycle of abuse
because they invest all their time and energy into denying the bad, dismissing
the bad, or justifying the bad and trying to "bring forth" the good instead.

Terri


In a message dated 9/28/2007 8:03:30 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
fishtail1776@... writes:

I am confused...I really perhaps you were not talking to everyone...but
basically I thought co-dependent didn't actually have to do with whether or not
someone was "good or bad" (although there are certain types of people I would
consider as bad people).

I thought it had to do with allowing behavior that is destructive versus
allowing behavior that it not destructive. I myself can see in my life that
there are people who tend to try to strip my of my self-worth..and though I
myself have made mistakes...I am not going to let anyone try to "get to me"
because they "can't".

I don't even care any more what other people think of me. And...no matter
what I have done I am not responsible for the "bad" behavior that other people
have done. We are all only responsible for ourselves.

Julie

The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are
evil,
but because of the people who don't do anything about it. - Albert Einstein

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally,  mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you Christine, I will look into.  I have a whole wish list going on at
amazon.

ProudAcups@... wrote:          The book?is called "Lethal Lovers and
Poisonous People ... How to protect your health from relationships that make you
sick".? It is by Harriet B. Braiker, Ph.D.? I have already read 97 pages of it
and it has grabbed my interest like no other book I've read recently.? If you
all get a chance maybe look for it on Amazon.com or something and just read a
little about it.? It gives techniques to detoxify harmful significant
relationships.?

Christine

-----Original Message-----
From: Shannon <donut110169@...>
To: CoDependents@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:47 am
Subject: Re: {CoDependents} Reply #2 to: Communicating Idea--Shannon

Gosh, thank you so much. It feels so much better knowing that I am not the only
one dealing with that. Makes me feel less like a crazy lunatic person that ought
to be in a psych hospital. (Ironic, I actually used to work in one). Can you
tell me again what book it was that you recommended. I have found so many books
I want to read and started a wish list on Amazon.com so I would remember. Now I
just need to get a second job and more time to buy and read them. I sometimes
really think I am crazy when I hurt myself. I now have scars on my left arm from
digging my own figernails in them. There have been times when he was in my face
and I felt the urge to shove him as hard as I could. Of course that would not do
anything positive for me, but i just want so bad sometimes to take away his
power and control over me. I guess that is where I need the most work and
reminders that I can do exactly that and never touch him. He is having a hard
time dealing with the little
bit of newfound strength and independence I have gained. Baby steps, right? I
can do this. Thanks for the support. It means the absolute world to me.

ProudAcups@... wrote: Shannon,

Please keep reading the posts and participating in the group!!? You are not
alone!!? I go through the same thing with boyfriend ... your comments are
exactly the same as I feel:

"The expectations he has for me are not what I can expect from him."
"I literally feel like I am losing my mind when I talk to him."

I too, have hurt myself out of frustration with my boyfriend.? The first year we
were together I cut myself out of frustration in dealing with him.? It is
primarily teenage girls who cut, not 40 year old women, yet there I was doing it
because I literally didn't know what else to do.? I haven't done that in a
couple years now and find that little by little I am becoming stronger within
myself as far as dealing with him.? Yes, I'm still with him and i don't know at
this point if I will stay with him or not, but I want you to know you are not
alone!!!!

The book that I recommended a couple of posts ago may be really helpful for you.

Christine

-----Original Message-----
From: Shannon <donut110169@...>
To: CoDependents@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 2:15 pm
Subject: Re: {CoDependents} Reply #2 to: Communicating Idea--Shannon

Good advice. However, I have tried that, but he is living with what i call the
"double standard". The expectations that he has for me are not what I can expect
from him. He uses phrases like, "the difference is" and "yeah but....". some of
these phrases actually set me to crazy mode. I literally feel like I am losing
my mind when I talk to him. We go around and around until he is ready to kill me
and I am ready to light myself on fire. I actually prayed that God would let me
die after one of these arguments. I am so tired of giving in to his beliefs that
I cant accept them at all and he wont stop trying to make me understand them or
accept them. I think he is actually convinced that I am crazy because of the way
these arguments play out. I have actually hit myself in the head, grabbed the
inside of my arm to the point of bruising, dug my fingernails in my own skin.
All because I have been so frustrated by our arguments or conversations. I cant
believe I am
sharing all this. I guess I feel safer than telling my friends that i have to
see look at me. I feel like I am losing my mind.

yougogrl40 <yougogrl40@...> wrote: --- In CoDependents@yahoogroups.com,
Shannon <donut110169@...> wrote:
>
> I really need to practice the "I feel" statements and I wish my
husband would do. When I tell him that I feel a certain way, he tells
me I am wrong. Maybe if I am more careful in the way I present it I
wont be wrong and he might listen.>>>

Hi Shannon,
I agree that you need to practice--however, all you can do for your
husband is inform him of what you are doing and ask him if he would
like to try it--but, pick a time when neither of you are upset or
stressed, timing is everything LOL. If he still doesn't quite grasp
what you are trying to do, try this way(I used this analogy on my
husband and he "got it" right away")

Say you sit down to supper and you serve him a big serving of green
beans, but, he says, "I don't want any, I don't like green beans" And
you smile and say, "I think you do and because I think you like green
beans then you do like green beans." He says "No, I know I don't like
green beans--I like peas" You say, "Now you are being silly--of course
you LIKE green beans--you like green beans because I SAY you like green
beans--why are you causing so much trouble over a serving of green
beans for crying out loud!?"

Now he begins to doubt whether or not he actually does like green
beans. Since you are so sure he does like green beans...maybe he was
wrong and he really does like green beans after all...so he holds out
his plate and takes the green beans and tells you how good they are...

Does that sound familiar? When I explained to my husband how it made me
feel when he discounted my feelings with "Oh don't be silly" or "You
worry too much" using that corny analogy the light went on and "green
beans" has become our code word when we think one or the other has
stepped over a boundary. But, before change can happen, your partner
has to be ready to accept change and to own his responsibilities in the
relationship.

Have a terrific day today--it is finally raining here today! yay
rain! :)
Claudia

---------------------------------
Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Julie:

With this attitude it sounds like you are in an advanced  stage of recovery!
DR Irene (verbal abuse/codependency therapist and expert)  refers to this as
the Yippee Personal Responsibility Stage:

"Yippee! Personal Responsibility Stage. Finally. You are very clear on
what's going on, you are able to stand up to your abuser (or anyone who is 
toxic
to you). You may have left. You have developed adequate self-control  skills
and are less likely to be provoked!

Above all, you  increasingly recognize that you are in control of your life -
and that you do  not have the power to make another person happy or
miserable. You realize that  your abuser (or anyone who mistreats you) is a
victim too,
but you  know it is up to them to fix themselves - if they want. You feel
great about  yourself!

Advice: Continue increasing your wonderful skills! Read  books that target
your weak areas, remain aware, and Monday morning quarterback  situations which
you wished you had handled differently. The next time something  like the last
yukkily-handled situation comes up, you will be better  prepared.

Warning: This stage is highly addictive. Congratulations  and enjoy yourself!
Your personal power will grow with practice and you will  become increasingly
adept at handling life's dilemmas. You may get so good at  running your life,
you find that you only rarely Monday morning quarterback  situations anymore.
You find yourself just intuitively handling them!  Yippee!"

Otherwise, codependents have to be in a more advanced stage of  recovery
themselves (otherwise they'd be almost codependent free or codependent  no more)
before they:

1) Don't allow behavior that is destructive

2) Don't let anyone try to "get to them" because "they can't"

3) Accept/admit to making mistakes themselves (certainly not all,  but there
are enough codependents who play the "martyr" role and  blame everything on
everyone else at some juncture, even if initially they  blamed it all on
themselves)

4) Don't even care anymore what other people think of them

5) Know that no matter what they have done they are not  responsible for the
"bad" behavior of others

6) Know that they are only responsible for their own self

Putting all that aside, the word "bad" means injurious, harmful,
destructive, abusive, et al. Even so, the point of my previous post to  Shannon
was not
whether or not people are truly good or bad, but that many  codependents in the
early stage of recovery have a challenging time setting  boundaries with
and/or leaving someone who behaves destructively because despite  this behavior
they can convince themselves, "But he/she is not really a BAD  person. He/she
doesn't mean to be BAD. He/she is GOOD underneath. He/she tries  so hard to be
GOOD," ad nauseam.

As if whether or not they should protect themselves or get away from a  toxic
individual is contingent upon how bad or good said individual is. This is  an
unhealthy mindset that can keep codependents trapped in the  cycle of abuse
because they invest all their time and energy into denying  the bad, dismissing
the bad, or justifying the bad and trying to "bring forth"  the good instead.

Terri


In a message dated 9/28/2007 8:03:30 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
fishtail1776@... writes:

I am confused...I really  perhaps you were not talking to everyone...but
basically I thought  co-dependent didn't actually have to do with whether or not
someone was "good  or bad" (although there are certain types of people I would
consider as bad  people).

I thought it had to do with allowing  behavior that is destructive versus
allowing behavior that it not destructive.  I myself can see in my life that
there are people who tend to try to strip my  of my self-worth..and though I
myself have made mistakes...I am not going to  let anyone try to "get to me"
because they "can't".

I don't even care any more what other people think of me. And...no matter
what  I have done I am  not responsible for the "bad" behavior that other 
people
have done. We are all only responsible for ourselves.

Julie




The world is a dangerous place to live, not because  of the people who are
evil,
but because of the people who don't do anything  about it. - Albert Einstein





************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At least you got a good laugh. Us co-dependents need to do that once in awhile.
I get tired of being weighed down by all this "serious stuff" I mean...it's the
weekend. I just don't know what I am going to do this weekend. I have been so
depressed I have not even made plans yet.

   Julie

jaymaddh <jaymaddh@...> wrote:
           Julie, smiles!!!!!

I know you didn't get the impression i was a druggie! I reread my
own post before anyone responded and it didn't seem clear that it was
him...probably my codependent paranoia...LOL!!!!!

--- In CoDependents@yahoogroups.com, Julie Blodgett
<fishtail1776@...> wrote:
>
> I never got the impression you were the "druggie" (pardon the
street term). Not at all. I hope I didn't give you the impression
that I got that impression. I mysefl had responded to some posts
saying...they are all interesting...and it made me wonder if my
bf/soon to be ex I think...was/is doing drugs now.
>
> Not sure because the mood swings could be from a mental
disorder..I know because I have them and I don't do drugs...lol (but
coffee or alcohol). I am just saying this because...
>
> I got used to handle the fact that he drinks once in a
while...but then...I wondered...he seems to be changing for the worst
in some ways...not being as willing to work things out with me and so
on...but it could be primarily that he realizes...
>
> I am not one to be reckoned with...meaning..I am not easily
controlled. I refuse to let anyone control me.
>
> Julie
>
> jaymaddh <jaymaddh@...> wrote:
> rereading my post i want to make it clear that he was
binging on
> drugs not me!!!!! That's his gig not mine, it read a little
> confusing.
>
> Thanks,
> Jody
>
> --- In CoDependents@yahoogroups.com, "jaymaddh" <jaymaddh@> wrote:
> >
> > I am now receiving texts from my drug addict recently ex
boyfriend
> > asking if I want him to continue my health insurance, and if i
> > stopped payment on the check i sent him to cover it. He owns his
> own
> > company and put me down as an employee so I could get better
> > insurance then I was getting on my own. He paid it while we were
> > together, but, i agreed to continue the coverage after i left him
> > because he said if i was to cobra it would be twice the price.
> About
> > 10 days ago, I agreed to see him to drop off the check, which was
> > postdated for 9/24, and two minutes before our scheduled meet
time
> he
> > texted me and said he was sick. I called him and he didn't
answer,
> > didn't answer my text, I had talked to him the night before and
> knew
> > why he was sick, his drug dealer/handyman was over. So i freaked,
> > he's a type 2 diabetic, survived leagionaires disease, and has
> COPD.
> > (yes i loved taking care of him in the past, it was the only time
> he
> > was nice and appreciative of me, HELLO CODEPENDENCE!) I pounded
on
> > his door and he wouldn't answer, after about 10 minutes he yells
> thru
> > the window that he called to police and they were on their way.
> They
> > showed up before I could get in my car. I wasn't embarrassed for
> > checking on him, would have wanted a friend to do the same for me
> if
> > i didn't answer after that text especially knowing that i had
been
> > binging on drugs. The police come to my car and ask if i just
left
> a
> > psych ward, which I had, 2 weeks earlier for my attempted
suicide,
> > and said if they checked on him and he was ok, would i leave. I
> said
> > of course. The police came back and said that according to bf i
> was
> > trespassing, to never call, email, text or step onto his property
> > again. I said no problem. I had dropped the check in his door
> while
> > i was there. leaving his house i was releaved for some reason,
> > called his best friend from child hood who told me he was sick of
> > bf's drug binges, that we all had to let him be and if he dies,
he
> > dies, everyone who loves him, he has driven away. I went on with
> my
> > day instead of going to bed and falling apart. Actually got my
> hair
> > cut and colored back to brunette, which looks so much better with
> my
> > olive complection, only stayed blonde because what he wanted. Had
> a
> > nice weekend with my family. i am very proud of myself.
> >
> > now i am getting these texts from him about the insurance and
> whether
> > not my check is good. It's not, I stopped payment on it after
> > consulting the insurance company and finding out i would pay the
> same
> > price to them as I was to pay bf,(bf said if i cobra'd it would
be
> 2-
> > 3 times the price) and thought the more distance from him the
> better.
> >
> > I have not answered his texts or emails yet, and part of me
really
> > wants to send him a message saying I am done, I and everyone else
> who
> > loves him are done, to leave me alone and if you die, hurt
> yourself,
> > etc., you are on your own.
> >
> > There is satisfaction in just ignoring him, and i'm wondering if
> > communicating that message is still me trying to get him to see
the
> > light or stay in a dynamic with him. For God's sake he called the
> > police on me and accused me of trespassing!!!!!
> >
> > Any insight or advice is truly appreciated, feeling weak and
> > wondering my motives.
> >
> > God Bless,
> > Jody
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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   Feature Clips and Article Samples:
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Every mom in this group can probably relate!!  Mom's are usually good at
handling "gross" ness!!  lol  Good for you ... keep on appreciating that great
little daughter of yours!!

Christine


-----Original Message-----
From: jaymaddh <jaymaddh@...>
To: CoDependents@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 1:07 pm
Subject: {CoDependents} physically, emotionally available as a mom, kind of
gross mom story but proud






ok, read on if you dare, but, for those of you who are moms i'm sure
you will relate.

My 4 year old daughter, Maddie, has a constipation problem we've been
battling since she was born. Last night she tried to go, it hurt and
she screamed, had to put in suppository, nothing happened, at 4 a.m.
she screamed and we tried again. Yes, we are both exhausted. I let
her sleep late and decided to finally get this taken care of with the
pediatrician. I had tried every otc, diet, etc. exhusband was
supposed to have her covered for last year on his insurance but never
did it, and I didn't fight him over guilt for leaving him, and being
wrapped up with my drug addict boyfriend. Well, I threatened to take
exhusband to court and that got him to enroll her about a month ago.
So off we went to the Dr. I had to give her an enema, which was a
first, and the dr. gave her a scrip and instructions to overcome this
problem. She was successful and it was so traumatic she threw up as
well. I cried, my poor little girl.

It was so hard to watch her in so much pain, especially not
understanding it, but I WAS THERE!!!!! Emotionally, physically, I
have poop and throwup on me, and I don't care. I know it's gross
but, when I was in the dynamic with my xbf, when she had a problem he
never wanted to hear it, said it was too gross, would have FREAKED
about her throwing up all over the floor, and made fun of me for
having it all over me. I was always afraid of Maddie and I getting
in trouble, even for being sick. I addressed her problem by taking
her to the dr., we know how to prevent this in the future, I
cancelled my appointments for today, and I'm really tired, but MOMMY
TIRED!!!!! That's a good thing!

I appreciate my little girl more and more each day, she is so
resiliant and wonderful. My daycare lady said she has never seen a
little one with such a sweet and caring temperment, and so secure
within herself. I am so glad I am in recovery not only for me, but
for that wonderful ray of sunshine that lights up my world,
Maddie!!!

Thanks for bearing thru the gross stuff to read the outcome everyone!

Jody





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The book?is called "Lethal Lovers and Poisonous People ... How to protect your
health from relationships that make you sick".? It is by Harriet B. Braiker,
Ph.D.? I have already read 97 pages of it and it has grabbed my interest like no
other book I've read recently.? If you all get a chance maybe look for it on
Amazon.com or something and just read a little about it.? It gives techniques to
detoxify harmful significant relationships.?

Christine

-----Original Message-----
From: Shannon <donut110169@...>
To: CoDependents@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:47 am
Subject: Re: {CoDependents} Reply #2 to: Communicating Idea--Shannon






Gosh, thank you so much. It feels so much better knowing that I am not the only
one dealing with that. Makes me feel less like a crazy lunatic person that ought
to be in a psych hospital. (Ironic, I actually used to work in one). Can you
tell me again what book it was that you recommended. I have found so many books
I want to read and started a wish list on Amazon.com so I would remember. Now I
just need to get a second job and more time to buy and read them. I sometimes
really think I am crazy when I hurt myself. I now have scars on my left arm from
digging my own figernails in them. There have been times when he was in my face
and I felt the urge to shove him as hard as I could. Of course that would not do
anything positive for me, but i just want so bad sometimes to take away his
power and control over me. I guess that is where I need the most work and
reminders that I can do exactly that and never touch him. He is having a hard
time dealing with the little
bit of newfound strength and independence I have gained. Baby steps, right? I
can do this. Thanks for the support. It means the absolute world to me.

ProudAcups@... wrote: Shannon,

Please keep reading the posts and participating in the group!!? You are not
alone!!? I go through the same thing with boyfriend ... your comments are
exactly the same as I feel:

"The expectations he has for me are not what I can expect from him."
"I literally feel like I am losing my mind when I talk to him."

I too, have hurt myself out of frustration with my boyfriend.? The first year we
were together I cut myself out of frustration in dealing with him.? It is
primarily teenage girls who cut, not 40 year old women, yet there I was doing it
because I literally didn't know what else to do.? I haven't done that in a
couple years now and find that little by little I am becoming stronger within
myself as far as dealing with him.? Yes, I'm still with him and i don't know at
this point if I will stay with him or not, but I want you to know you are not
alone!!!!

The book that I recommended a couple of posts ago may be really helpful for you.

Christine

-----Original Message-----
From: Shannon <donut110169@...>
To: CoDependents@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 2:15 pm
Subject: Re: {CoDependents} Reply #2 to: Communicating Idea--Shannon

Good advice. However, I have tried that, but he is living with what i call the
"double standard". The expectations that he has for me are not what I can expect
from him. He uses phrases like, "the difference is" and "yeah but....". some of
these phrases actually set me to crazy mode. I literally feel like I am losing
my mind when I talk to him. We go around and around until he is ready to kill me
and I am ready to light myself on fire. I actually prayed that God would let me
die after one of these arguments. I am so tired of giving in to his beliefs that
I cant accept them at all and he wont stop trying to make me understand them or
accept them. I think he is actually convinced that I am crazy because of the way
these arguments play out. I have actually hit myself in the head, grabbed the
inside of my arm to the point of bruising, dug my fingernails in my own skin.
All because I have been so frustrated by our arguments or conversations. I cant
believe I am
sharing all this. I guess I feel safer than telling my friends that i have to
see look at me. I feel like I am losing my mind.

yougogrl40 <yougogrl40@...> wrote: --- In CoDependents@yahoogroups.com,
Shannon <donut110169@...> wrote:
>
> I really need to practice the "I feel" statements and I wish my
husband would do. When I tell him that I feel a certain way, he tells
me I am wrong. Maybe if I am more careful in the way I present it I
wont be wrong and he might listen.>>>

Hi Shannon,
I agree that you need to practice--however, all you can do for your
husband is inform him of what you are doing and ask him if he would
like to try it--but, pick a time when neither of you are upset or
stressed, timing is everything LOL. If he still doesn't quite grasp
what you are trying to do, try this way(I used this analogy on my
husband and he "got it" right away")

Say you sit down to supper and you serve him a big serving of green
beans, but, he says, "I don't want any, I don't like green beans" And
you smile and say, "I think you do and because I think you like green
beans then you do like green beans." He says "No, I know I don't like
green beans--I like peas" You say, "Now you are being silly--of course
you LIKE green beans--you like green beans because I SAY you like green
beans--why are you causing so much trouble over a serving of green
beans for crying out loud!?"

Now he begins to doubt whether or not he actually does like green
beans. Since you are so sure he does like green beans...maybe he was
wrong and he really does like green beans after all...so he holds out
his plate and takes the green beans and tells you how good they are...

Does that sound familiar? When I explained to my husband how it made me
feel when he discounted my feelings with "Oh don't be silly" or "You
worry too much" using that corny analogy the light went on and "green
beans" has become our code word when we think one or the other has
stepped over a boundary. But, before change can happen, your partner
has to be ready to accept change and to own his responsibilities in the
relationship.

Have a terrific day today--it is finally raining here today! yay
rain! :)
Claudia

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Thank you Shannon.  i had my little girl thru IVF and was so excited
when we were successful.  But, truly have never loved her more
uninhibitedly than now.  I don't have all the chaos going in my head,
the should do this, why isn't this happening, what's wrong with me
stuff. I read a longer book to her tonight using different voices and
she squealed with delight, even though she's sick.  Sigh, i will be
sad when she turns eighteen, as you are.

--- In CoDependents@yahoogroups.com, Shannon <donut110169@...> wrote:
>
> That is awesome, good for you.  My son just turned 18 and I feel so
lost sometimes.  It seems like I have been "mommy" for so long and
now I am just mom.  I have a collage of pictures throughout his life
on my background for my work computer and I miss those throw up
times.  Enjoy your time with her.  I am truly happy for you.
>
> jaymaddh <jaymaddh@...> wrote:          ok, read on if you dare,
but, for those of you who are moms i'm sure
> you will relate.
>
> My 4 year old daughter, Maddie, has a constipation problem we've
been
> battling since she was born. Last night she tried to go, it hurt
and
> she screamed, had to put in suppository, nothing happened, at 4
a.m.
> she screamed and we tried again. Yes, we are both exhausted. I let
> her sleep late and decided to finally get this taken care of with
the
> pediatrician. I had tried every otc, diet, etc. exhusband was
> supposed to have her covered for last year on his insurance but
never
> did it, and I didn't fight him over guilt for leaving him, and
being
> wrapped up with my drug addict boyfriend. Well, I threatened to
take
> exhusband to court and that got him to enroll her about a month
ago.
> So off we went to the Dr. I had to give her an enema, which was a
> first, and the dr. gave her a scrip and instructions to overcome
this
> problem. She was successful and it was so traumatic she threw up as
> well. I cried, my poor little girl.
>
> It was so hard to watch her in so much pain, especially not
> understanding it, but I WAS THERE!!!!! Emotionally, physically, I
> have poop and throwup on me, and I don't care. I know it's gross
> but, when I was in the dynamic with my xbf, when she had a problem
he
> never wanted to hear it, said it was too gross, would have FREAKED
> about her throwing up all over the floor, and made fun of me for
> having it all over me. I was always afraid of Maddie and I getting
> in trouble, even for being sick. I addressed her problem by taking
> her to the dr., we know how to prevent this in the future, I
> cancelled my appointments for today, and I'm really tired, but
MOMMY
> TIRED!!!!! That's a good thing!
>
> I appreciate my little girl more and more each day, she is so
> resiliant and wonderful. My daycare lady said she has never seen a
> little one with such a sweet and caring temperment, and so secure
> within herself. I am so glad I am in recovery not only for me, but
> for that wonderful ray of sunshine that lights up my world,
> Maddie!!!
>
> Thanks for bearing thru the gross stuff to read the outcome
everyone!
>
> Jody
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the
hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Evening :-).

I feel silly and inane for even asking this, but ... if one of your
codependenices revolved strongly around some of your strong interests
before you became codependent - how do you put the codependent part
behind you and allow yourself the freedom to/and enjoy them again, on
your own terms and your own self?

I met my "friend" many many years ago through two very strong
interests: the actor Robert Lansing, and writing.  We became friends,
and that grew to wonderful friends, but somewhere along the way it
turned into dependency for me in both areas.  In early 2004, she
abruptly ended the friendship, and she and her other "close" friends
refuse to acknowledge I even exist. One of their complaints was that
I was passive-aggressive, which I can be, but I was definitely also dependent.

I had a few months of weekly therapy in late 2004 from a therapist in
training - focusing on self-esteem - and some anxiety medication from
my usual doctor.  Both had to be discontinued when I lost my part
time job and ran out of money,  another situation that I have had
reoccur for lengthy periods of time (this last one for almost over a
year and a half, though for part of that time I had student loan
overcharges, and so forth.)  I have tried to do a lot of self-help
and inner work since then.

If you read maxandoreo2003's email from 9/12/2007,  it describes a
lot of what went on with me strongly during that time - I wanted the
relationship(s) back the way they were at all/any costs.  I still
catch myself wanting that at times, and/or being jealous when either
of them get accolades, even though they are well-earned and I recognize that.

However, for some strange, stupid reason, these women are still
affecting my decisions/feelings/connections in both areas here - and
expanding the writing to any and all creating.  There are
other  people on the Robert Lansing and related lists that I care
about and wish to remain friends with, and I've tried a time or two,
but there's always been this mental block in my mind - sometimes,
like now, it infuriates me.  I know somewhere inside that one of the
strong reasons that I am having so much trouble making myself find a
job is because next June is another convention/get-together, and I'll
see and have to deal with both of them.  One of them is one of the
heads of the group, so her not being there is not going to
happen.  If I'm not working, or struggling to make ends meet
monetarily, then not only does someone else have to take care of me
(another dependency/co-dependency issue that's too long and
sidetracking to go into in this email) but I can't go to the
convention because I don't have the money (again).

My feelings are kind of jumbled up around this.  I have several
writings that need to be finished and posted, and other group members
to reconnect with.  Sometimes I get going with good ideas.  Then this
little voice goes "but aren't you really doing this just to spite [my
exgirlfriends]?"  and it all comes to a crashing halt.  Or I don't
write and post something because she/they "might see it" ;well of
course they well, being on the same lists - duh!

Guess you can tell I've been trained since before birth to be a
people-pleaser and always put everyone else ahead of me
<sigh>.  Another couple of things that I am unlearning.

I am a good writer.  I could be much better if I would write, finish,
submit, be criticized,  learn, and so forth.  I enjoy being an artist
with color and so forth as well.  I deserve to do much better by/for
myself - to love myself etc.

How do I get rid of that little voice so I can clear out this version
of my codependency?

Thanks
Theresa




Gentlemen, I believe we have much to discuss.
(Robert Lansing as Control, the Equalizer, "Trial By Ordeal" )

I am confused...I really perhaps you were not talking to everyone...but
basically I thought co-dependent didn't actually have to do with whether or not
someone was "good or bad" (although there are certain types of people I would
consider as bad people).

   I thought it had to do with allowing behavior that is destructive versus
allowing behavior that it not destructive. I myself can see in my life that
there are people who tend to try to strip my of my self-worth..and though I
myself have made mistakes...I am not going to let anyone try to "get to me"
because they "can't".

   I don't even care any more what other people think of me. And...no matter what
I have done I am  not responsible for the "bad" behavior that other people have
done. We are all only responsible for ourselves.

   Julie

Shannon <donut110169@...> wrote:
           I agree only in my case I am not sure if there is consistency in
either thought. It all depends on both of our moods. He never just comes home
and beats me. I usually particpate in provoking. I think in some of our fights I
even told him to hit me. One time we got into a fight and made a comment about
killing me and I grabbed a steak knife and like a dork accidentally stabbed
myself with the thing and ended up getting a couple of stitches. Not my most
sane time, but my anger has overtaken me during these fights. If I look at
people as safe or unsafe, I would think I would have to consider myself actually
unsafe for me. Weird, but maybe if I consider that when I feel like I am going
to hurt myself, it might help. Ok, so for me I am going to seriously consider
that I should at least be able to feel safe from myself. Thank you for the new
perspective.

ProudAcups@... wrote: Thank you Terri!? I find the concept of looking at
people as safe/unsafe as opposed to good/bad to be very helpful!!

Christine

-----Original Message-----
From: AZTerri@...
To: CoDependents@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:39 pm
Subject: Re: {CoDependents} Saying hello and your messages have given me
strength

Hi Shannon:

Thank you for sharing! The term "codependency" has broadened since its
inception: "a psychological condition or a relationship in which a person is
controlled or manipulated by another who is affected with a pathological
condition
(as an addiction to alcohol or heroin); broadly : dependence on the needs of
or control by another."

There are many codependents who were not children of alcoholic or drug
addicted parents specifically but who, at the least, were raised in a
dysfunctional or abusive environment. Just one example of a dysfunctional
(abnormal or
unhealthy) relationship with a parent would be having a Mother who made it
evident she did not want you and didn't care about you.

Codependents in general (certainly not all) have the tendency to label
others "good" or "bad," and more often than not try to find the good in others
no
matter how bad they are anyway. I.e., "He's really a good person underneath,
despite hitting me, so I think I will stick around and keep giving him
chances to prove himself..." This type of mindset can make codependents feel
apprehensive, guilty, ashamed, and so forth if they set boundaries and/or sever
ties with anyone who hurts them.

As such, it can help if they learn to view people more from the perspective
of being "safe" rather than good. For instance, "It really doesn't matter if
my girlfriend tries really hard to be good, the fact is that she is UNSAFE
for me. She is (fill in the blank: cold, angry, critical, violent, ad
infinitum) so that I need to set boundaries with her and/or extricate myself
from the
union with her for my own protection and well-being (the state of being
happy, healthy, or prosperous)."

Terri

In a message dated 9/26/2007 10:10:43 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
donut110169@... writes:

Welcome, I am realatively knew and I almost decided to cancel being in this
group. I read everyones posts and wasnt sure I fit it. I know I am
codependent, but I did not grow up with drug addicted or alcoholic parents. I
grew
up the first half of my childhood with a mom who didnt care or want me and the
second half with a dad who was overbearing and over protective. Which i
just learned probably made me think I wasnt capable of making decisions or doing
anything on my own. He was very cheuvanistic. (sorry about the spelling)

Anyway, here is my story. Hopefully by my actually saying it, it will help
me to deal with it. I met my husband when I was 18. Within the first couple
of months we had our first physical abuse encounter. (we were on a river
and drinking and i made him mad and he shoved my head under water). Now, of
course normal people would have that be an indicator to end things. Not me.
He apologized and made the excuses and said the right things so we stayed
together. I got pregnant and by 20 had my son.

I moved in wiht him and over the next 18 years we had more than I want to
admit times of violence. Him against me. I have covered many bruises on my
neck and hide the pain in my ribs. Unfortunately I still didnt leave. As time
went on, we had plenty of good times too, i guess that is what made it easier
to forgive and deny or down play the bad times.

He was an abused child and I think i made excuses for him. As time went on
he cheated on me a couple of times. I forgave those too. (wow, saying this
sure makes me feel like an idiot) At about the 17th year of us being
together which means my son was 16. We got married. Not sure why, at the time it
actually felt right.

That was two years ago. I wish I had never done it. This last year has
been really difficult for our family. We moved from one end of the state to the
other for a job. The job last 3 months and then my husband got laid off.
During this time my son was graduating from high school so I was having issues
dealing with what i was supposed to do next since my son didnt need me
anymore. At least not the way he did. I ended up cheating on my husband, which
at the time was the only time i was happy. I am not condoning what i did,
but talking with this person and hearing from them made me happy.

It has been two months since I got caught cheating. I have also discovered
in the last 6 months that I am codependent and that i really need to fix that
because it was making my life miserable. I am still working on that. It is
hard. I cannot seem to get any loving feelings back for my husband and we
fight all the time. I have also recently started nurturing my spiritual needs
and in doing so have a constant battle in my head about staying or leaving
my husband.

He is not a bad person and he tries very hard to be a good person. We just
are complete opposites and i guess now that i have discovered and am changing
my codependency i have realized how much we dont have in common and that i
dont want to conform to his ways anymore.

Anyway, that is it. Thanks to all your posts i have finally had the courage
to say that. No one I know or care about knows about my life situation. I
have always been guarded and kept a lot of it hidden. It hurts me and makes
me feel bad about myself knowing that i allowed this person to hurt me for so
long. I have had the hardest time forgiving myself than i have forgiving
him

The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are
evil,
but because of the people who don't do anything about it. - Albert Einstein

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   Feature Clips and Article Samples:
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==================================
The following is from "Hope for Today"
An Al-Anon daily meditation reader approved
by World Service Conference Al-Anon Family
Groups (c) 2002 Al-Anon Family Group
Headquarters, Inc
----------------------

Hope for Today - September 28

... Even after coming to Al-Anon for a while, I
harbored some secret thoughts and feelings I thought
were far too personal to share with the group.
However, other members had suggested that saying
those difficult words out loud would help me recover.
One night I shared my confusion over how to heal
these parts of my life.
... Soon after, my home group held a meeting on
sponsorship. Several longtime members spoke about
their experiences. From these individuals I learned
sponsors are Al-Anon members who work with another
member on a one-to-one basis to explain the program's
tools and encourage their use. Sponsors respond to
the needs of the sponsee in a loving and constructive
manner. They listen to the situations presented by the
sponsee, and if they have lived through similar
experiences, they share how the Al-Anon principles
helped them cope. Even if they have not gone through
something similar, they can help the sponsee apply the
Steps to the problem. I also heard that receiving a
sponsors support during a difficult situation can
magnify whatever help the group has offered.
... This meeting on sponsorship was helpful to me. I
didn't feel as confused afterwards, and I gained the
courage to ask someone to be my sponsor. Now I
understand more about how such a relationship works,
and my sponsor has become yet another recovery tool
for me. Her patient listening helps fill in the gaps
when sharing at meetings is not quite sufficient for my
needs. Together, meetings and sponsorship help me
express myself to the fullest.

Thought for the Day
... We honor ourselves when we ask an Al-Anon
member to be a sponsor and to walk beside us on our
path to recovery.

... "Certainly, pent-up resentments need release, and
... sponsors can be extremely helpful in working on
... those areas and putting them into perspective."
... *How Al-Anon Works for Families
... & Friends of Alcoholics*, p. 114

Today's thought from Hazelden is:

The love of our neighbor in all its fullness simply means being able
to say to him: "What are you going through?"
--Simone Weil

Love is listening to our friends and really hearing what they have to
say. Sometimes we find it hard to listen because we are so full of
ourselves. We don't hear well when we stop listening and start
thinking about our own responses.

We feel most heard when someone doesn't try to fix us or give us all
the answers. Mostly, we need a friend to let us pour our hearts out,
to tell our stories to. In giving another the same attention we'd
like to have, we live by the Golden Rule, and we allow ourselves the
rewards of true friendship.

Today let me bring a friend my undivided attention.

You are reading from the book:

Our Best Days by Nancy Hull-Mast

Our Best Days by Nancy Hull-Mast. Copyright 1990 by Hazelden
Foundation. All rights reserved. Printed in the United States of
America. No portion of this publication may be reproduced in any
manner without the written permission of Hazelden.

That is awesome, good for you.  My son just turned 18 and I feel so lost
sometimes.  It seems like I have been "mommy" for so long and now I am just mom.
I have a collage of pictures throughout his life on my background for my work
computer and I miss those throw up times.  Enjoy your time with her.  I am truly
happy for you.

jaymaddh <jaymaddh@...> wrote:          ok, read on if you dare, but, for
those of you who are moms i'm sure
you will relate.

My 4 year old daughter, Maddie, has a constipation problem we've been
battling since she was born. Last night she tried to go, it hurt and
she screamed, had to put in suppository, nothing happened, at 4 a.m.
she screamed and we tried again. Yes, we are both exhausted. I let
her sleep late and decided to finally get this taken care of with the
pediatrician. I had tried every otc, diet, etc. exhusband was
supposed to have her covered for last year on his insurance but never
did it, and I didn't fight him over guilt for leaving him, and being
wrapped up with my drug addict boyfriend. Well, I threatened to take
exhusband to court and that got him to enroll her about a month ago.
So off we went to the Dr. I had to give her an enema, which was a
first, and the dr. gave her a scrip and instructions to overcome this
problem. She was successful and it was so traumatic she threw up as
well. I cried, my poor little girl.

It was so hard to watch her in so much pain, especially not
understanding it, but I WAS THERE!!!!! Emotionally, physically, I
have poop and throwup on me, and I don't care. I know it's gross
but, when I was in the dynamic with my xbf, when she had a problem he
never wanted to hear it, said it was too gross, would have FREAKED
about her throwing up all over the floor, and made fun of me for
having it all over me. I was always afraid of Maddie and I getting
in trouble, even for being sick. I addressed her problem by taking
her to the dr., we know how to prevent this in the future, I
cancelled my appointments for today, and I'm really tired, but MOMMY
TIRED!!!!! That's a good thing!

I appreciate my little girl more and more each day, she is so
resiliant and wonderful. My daycare lady said she has never seen a
little one with such a sweet and caring temperment, and so secure
within herself. I am so glad I am in recovery not only for me, but
for that wonderful ray of sunshine that lights up my world,
Maddie!!!

Thanks for bearing thru the gross stuff to read the outcome everyone!

Jody








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