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#2100 From: "l.d.misek-falkoff" <include@...>
Date: Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:48 pm
Subject: Fw FYI : *Disability Treaty Partnership Passport* DTPP (re documentation of civil society participation of individual, grps).
includey2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
(Response to Colin, on Disability Convention List)
 
Please feel welcome to join in a discussion of putting together a card or page showing a person's or organization's active participation in some aspect of civil society support for the Internatiional Disability Convention (Treaty).. 
 
>Great.
 
So, you can just hit reply to the invitation you should have received, or let us know if it did not come.
 
And then you can become co-moderator after joining up as  member first. You're already a broadly contributing netizen so this'll come easy.
 
We emphasize of course that this discussion is with the express understanding that - as pointed out here multiple times - there is not yet a Treaty (The Convention is in AD HOC Commitee working draft stages, not a completed Law yet even in Draft).
 
For all interested, here is how to join this activity/discussion, and feel free to post soon as you join in:
 
Post message: DTPP@yahoogroups.com
 
----- Original Message -----
From: ColRevs
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [DisabilityConvention] [long to summarize and move forward Re: Documentation of Participation - Ideas (was Re: arrest)

Hi Linda
 
I would co-moderate this group. I really like your ideas for taken my idea forward.
 
Colin
 

#2099 From: "sharrynlewis" <sharryn_lewis@...>
Date: Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:53 pm
Subject: NURSES RECONNECTED
sharrynlewis
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
www.nursesreconnected.com/resource


Find that nursing friend that you lost contact with!

Excellent reunion site connecting Nurses & Health care workers
throughout the world. Superb free nursing resources & the ability to
find nurses worldwide.

FREE registration

#2098 From: "Jackie J" <zionsdesertflower@...>
Date: Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:46 pm
Subject: RE: Pain Bill in Congress
desereta2
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

THANK YOU FOR THE UPDATE THERE IS ALWAYS HOPE

>From: "inpaininwv" <inpaininwv@...>
>Reply-To: ChronicPainCooperate@yahoogroups.com
>To: ChronicPainCooperate@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [ChronicPainCooperate] Pain Bill in Congress
>Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:52:38 -0000
>
>
>http://olpa.od.nih.gov/tracking/house%5Fbills/session1/hr-1863.asp
>
>
>

#2097 From: "inpaininwv" <inpaininwv@...>
Date: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:52 pm
Subject: Pain Bill in Congress
inpaininwv
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
#2096 From: WetnWaitin18 <mortensen1886@...>
Date: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:49 pm
Subject: My webcam is back and better than ever! (hot pic!)
mortensen1886@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hey people! I am pretty new to the group and I don't mean to be annoying, but
I wanted to let all of you know I finally got my webcam back. It took a while
to repair, but everything is running great now, and the picture is crystal
clear. The repair guy also told me that he added some new software to allow
me to talk live to those watching me! So if any of you guys want to chat
come try it out on my new homepage :)

http://www.amateurhope.com/WetnWaitin18/

#2095 From: Bubiboo <mortensen1886@...>
Date: Wed Nov 3, 2004 3:45 pm
Subject: Hey guys, new to ChronicPainCooperate here!
mortensen1886@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hey guys, I am new to the group and just wanted to say hi!

If you would like to check out a pic of me I took yesterday, or talk to me check my profile our over here: http://www.datebywebcam.com/profiles_bubiboo.php.

Thanks guys, I look forward to getting to know you all!

-----------------------------------
Dating By Webcam Works For Me
Find Your Match http://www.datebywebcam.com/search/
It's Fun and Free! Bubiboo...

#2094 From: "l.d.misek-falkoff" <include@...>
Date: Wed Nov 3, 2004 3:31 pm
Subject: Fw FYI Have we ever discussed Pain as a Mental Hell/health issue--COPING
includey2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
 
Dear Ed and responding to Ed C. also:
 
Well said on a difficult subject. 
 
Your proposals - these are good ideas, in my humble opinion.  We can and should discuss all possible approaches. Also, the pain bills Before Congress have been in Committee too long and Ed C. (Carraway) and I visited those offices in Washington.  As soon as we know who the new Administration will be we can move forward on this.
 
And you may be interested in:
HRCPP now in formation.  Human Rights Council of and for People with Pain... because ... what you and our other dear Ed have  posted includes legal aspects but well beyond to fundamental freedoms as to quality of life.  It is a mystery how a person burdened with severe pain can be expected to not get very worried or depressed - that is, there are exceptions, but from many years with pain and pain research and support and other I would call that a minor miracle..
 
But immediately, sorry about the arthritis grip; here too; we can look to the season resolving to at least some sort of steady state one hopes (not likely!) and then spring forward in tune with Spring's warming balms.
 
:) LDMF.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: [DisabilityParty] Have we ever discussed Pain as a Mental Hell/health issue--COPING

            I haven’t been ‘chiming in’ much, but this one strikes real close to home. Doctors are, in my experience, pretty poor at the more complicated cases. I’ve had SSDI for nearly a year now, but my private long term disability insurance provider continues to deny my claim. In my opinion it’s because they can’t connect the dots from a bevy of doctors. My lawyer has shown me the documentation, it’s literally 4 inches thick! But MetLife, w/their partner UnumProvident continue to not understand the connection between constant pain and several disorders, including mental health ones like major depression and anxiety. You are quite right, the insurance company oversold their product, not properly contemplating the likely outcomes for aging populations of higher income workers. Thus, when it comes time to pay up, they balk and literally will take any possible avenue to avoid their responsibilities. There are literally thousands of such cases clogging the courts. To my simple mind, it would seem to be fertile ground for class action, much like what has been done for tobacco and asbestos, et. al.

            Maybe not exactly on point, but forgive me for venting. The cold rainy weather is aggravating the arthritis.

 

Ed Westphal

 

-----Original Message-----
From: virginiaedward@... [mailto:virginiaedward@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 12:28 PM
To: DisabilityParty@yahoogroups.com; C-O-P-I-N-G_UN@yahoogroups.com
Cc: ldmf@...
Subject: [DisabilityParty] Have we ever discussed Pain as a Mental Hell/health issue--COPING

 

Linda and all, please chime in!!!

 

When pain becomes severe and constant there must be many possibilities that effect ones mental health. I pose three questions and or concerns:

 

Does the "Doctor" usually (why not normal protocol)? take this into consideration and offer a counseling prescription?

 

When one masks pain with prescriptions and knowing that it will return or require meds dosage to be increased, and the natural anxiety of wondering how/when it will return effects ones everyday functioning regarding plans or routines, why counseling isn't part of the treatment protocol and covered by insurance?

 

Insurance by most companies only cover a set number of treatments for Mental Health Counseling which a long term pain individual would/could soon run out of allowed treatments.

 

Also, its takes away productivity and employment, which at that time an individual isn't paying any premiums, which at the least helps the insurance company with costs. Are they cutting their nose off to spite their face? Enigma in a Conundrum HUH!

 

My Niece in North Carolina is going through this as we speak, as she is concerned about making daily plans as she never knows when times will be too difficult to participate, which prompts me to discuss with others who are probably going through similar or like situations.

 

When we go up to visit its our plans to take her to Duke University where a major Pain clinic has a Doctor who strongly believes that pain is real whether its imagination or not. He accepts the individual as the best one to diagnose their pain and its levels. 

 

Linda, I always admire how you seem to be the enigizer bunny and keep on ticking. You have much to share with us how you don't let pain get you down. Seems you take the pain situation and accept it at that moment in time and nurture yourself back to a "functioning" level despite knowing it will return. 

 

Hope I am not overstepping any bounds with my comments.

 

Ed Carraway

 

 



The National Disability Party Website is at:
http://www.disabilityparty.com/






The National Disability Party Website is at:
http://www.disabilityparty.com/




#2093 From: "kathymegan2004" <kathymegan2004@...>
Date: Wed Nov 3, 2004 1:04 pm
Subject: to any one who cares to read it.
kathymegan2004
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I'm pretty new at coping with what is now unmistakebly  Chronic
Pain. New in that I didn't have a label for it before and was pretty
well much thought of as a  bit of a whinger. I try not to but, oh
well, I guess whoever is reading this will know. I find it difficult
to cope with pain that moves around from one place to another only
to return to the place where it started. Yes I do have some better
days still and they seem to follow a good nights sleep (If I ever
get one). I've had to leave my job and basically leave my whole life
behind in some sort of hazy shadow. No, I'm not delighted with that.

Enough for now, Kathy.

#2092 From: "l.d.misek-falkoff" <include@...>
Date: Wed Nov 3, 2004 8:18 am
Subject: 15,000 Google References to "Chronic Pain Support" on Internet
includey2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Regarding the subject line, If interested, try adding :"mental health" or related terms to the search.  Some research we can do to aid communications broadly; and you can style a search which brings up even more patterns.
 
Currently:
 
"Results 1 - 10 of about 15,000 for "chronic pain support". (0.61 seconds) "
 
(Please check this out).

LDMF.
Representing NDP and PWP (People with Pain) at the U.N. Disability Human Rights Convention (Treaty). 
- (Other Affiliations on Request).
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 3:09 AM
Subject: Re: [DisabilityParty] Have we ever discussed Pain as a Mental Hell/health issue--COPING

Dear Ed and responding to Ed C. also:
 
Well said on a difficult subject. 
 
Your proposals - these are good ideas, in my humble opinion.  We can and should discuss all possible approaches. Also, the pain bills Before Congress have been in Committee too long and Ed C. (Carraway) and I visited those offices in Washington.  As soon as we know who the new Administration will be we can move forward on this.
 
And you may be interested in:
HRCPP now in formation.  Human Rights Council of and for People with Pain... because ... what you and our other dear Ed have  posted includes legal aspects but well beyond to fundamental freedoms as to quality of life.  It is a mystery how a person burdened with severe pain can be expected to not get very worried or depressed - that is, there are exceptions, but from many years with pain and pain research and support and other I would call that a minor miracle..
 
But immediately, sorry about the arthritis grip; here too; we can look to the season resolving to at least some sort of steady state one hopes (not likely!) and then spring forward in tune with Spring's warming balms.
 
:) LDMF.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: [DisabilityParty] Have we ever discussed Pain as a Mental Hell/health issue--COPING

            I haven’t been ‘chiming in’ much, but this one strikes real close to home. Doctors are, in my experience, pretty poor at the more complicated cases. I’ve had SSDI for nearly a year now, but my private long term disability insurance provider continues to deny my claim. In my opinion it’s because they can’t connect the dots from a bevy of doctors. My lawyer has shown me the documentation, it’s literally 4 inches thick! But MetLife, w/their partner UnumProvident continue to not understand the connection between constant pain and several disorders, including mental health ones like major depression and anxiety. You are quite right, the insurance company oversold their product, not properly contemplating the likely outcomes for aging populations of higher income workers. Thus, when it comes time to pay up, they balk and literally will take any possible avenue to avoid their responsibilities. There are literally thousands of such cases clogging the courts. To my simple mind, it would seem to be fertile ground for class action, much like what has been done for tobacco and asbestos, et. al.

            Maybe not exactly on point, but forgive me for venting. The cold rainy weather is aggravating the arthritis.

 

Ed Westphal

 

-----Original Message-----
From: virginiaedward@... [mailto:virginiaedward@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 12:28 PM
To: DisabilityParty@yahoogroups.com; C-O-P-I-N-G_UN@yahoogroups.com
Cc: ldmf@...
Subject: [DisabilityParty] Have we ever discussed Pain as a Mental Hell/health issue--COPING

 

Linda and all, please chime in!!!

 

When pain becomes severe and constant there must be many possibilities that effect ones mental health. I pose three questions and or concerns:

 

Does the "Doctor" usually (why not normal protocol)? take this into consideration and offer a counseling prescription?

 

When one masks pain with prescriptions and knowing that it will return or require meds dosage to be increased, and the natural anxiety of wondering how/when it will return effects ones everyday functioning regarding plans or routines, why counseling isn't part of the treatment protocol and covered by insurance?

 

Insurance by most companies only cover a set number of treatments for Mental Health Counseling which a long term pain individual would/could soon run out of allowed treatments.

 

Also, its takes away productivity and employment, which at that time an individual isn't paying any premiums, which at the least helps the insurance company with costs. Are they cutting their nose off to spite their face? Enigma in a Conundrum HUH!

 

My Niece in North Carolina is going through this as we speak, as she is concerned about making daily plans as she never knows when times will be too difficult to participate, which prompts me to discuss with others who are probably going through similar or like situations.

 

When we go up to visit its our plans to take her to Duke University where a major Pain clinic has a Doctor who strongly believes that pain is real whether its imagination or not. He accepts the individual as the best one to diagnose their pain and its levels. 

 

Linda, I always admire how you seem to be the enigizer bunny and keep on ticking. You have much to share with us how you don't let pain get you down. Seems you take the pain situation and accept it at that moment in time and nurture yourself back to a "functioning" level despite knowing it will return. 

 

Hope I am not overstepping any bounds with my comments.

 

Ed Carraway

 

 



The National Disability Party Website is at:
http://www.disabilityparty.com/






The National Disability Party Website is at:
http://www.disabilityparty.com/




#2091 From: "l.d.misek-falkoff" <include@...>
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:25 pm
Subject: Re: Book - Under the Medical Gaze:Facts and Fictions of Chronic Pain
includey2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Very interesting,  relating to the following:
 
(1) Human Rights Council of and for Persons with Pain (Write ldmf@... to inquire/re HRCPP).
 
(2) Too many other areas also where credibility is deserved but can seem inappropriately and even dangerously scarce.
 
Too often one goes from hearing "that's imaginary" to ... that's chronic. Even, "it's gone too far and cannot be treated."
 
LDMF.
L. D. Misek-Falkoff, Ph.D., J.D..
----- Original Message -----
From: ColRevs
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 7:20 AM
Subject: [DisabilityConvention] Under the Medical Gaze:Facts and Fictions of Chronic Pain

 
Under the Medical Gaze: Facts and Fictions of Chronic Pain
Add Us To Your Desktop!
   Book Search Results for Under the Medical Gaze: Facts and Fictions of Chronic Pain

 Under the Medical Gaze: Facts and Fictions of Chronic Pain

Under the Medical Gaze: Facts and Fictions of Chronic Pain

By:
ISBN : 0-520-22398-5
Published: 07 May 2001
Publisher: University of California Press
Binding: Paperback
£12.50 (as of 2004-11-00 Details)  List Price:  £12.50
 
 
Availability - Usually dispatched within 4 to 6 weeks


Book Review of Under the Medical Gaze: Facts and Fictions of Chronic Pain

Susan Greenhalgh has written a fascinating account of how the process of medical diagnosis and treatment can go horribly astray despite the best intentions of both the doctor and the patient. Greenhalgh had suffered for years from a painful arthritic condition. Upon moving to California she found her condition getting much worse. Unsatisfied with the care she was getting from the local rheumatologist care that addressed the flare-ups of pain but not the cause of the pain she sought help from a rheumatologist some distance away who had been recommended to her by a friend. At her first visit this rheumatologist then misdiagnosed her with fibromyalgia among other conditions. The treatments he then recommended caused side effects which mimicked fibromyalgia and compounded his initial misdiagnosis. He treated the side effects that included severe headaches neck and back pain cognitive difficulties vision problems and severe depression as further evidence ...
. . .

___________________________________________________________________
This email and all attachments have been electronically scanned by Kingston
Communications' email Anti-Virus service and no known viruses were detected.
____________________________________________________________________________



#2090 From: "elvira52" <Elvira52@...>
Date: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:01 am
Subject: When Will America care about it OWN??? It's in My House? [ToxicMoldSupport] .How Clean is Your House?
maatqueen
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Is it in yours,

are your kids going into a daycare with Mold in it living in it eating it
every place we go shopping when will we care about America and her
broblemssssssssssssssss??????????????????????

E


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "lisa marie" <lisa@...>
  To: <ToxicMoldSupport@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 5:34 PM
  Subject: [ToxicMoldSupport] .How Clean is Your House?





  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE FRIDAY OCTOBER 22, 2004

  Syracuse, NY - Dealing with the Fungus Among Us: Local business owner
  cleans up on national TV reality show.

  The 10/25/04 episode will feature a NY home with a serious mold
  problem. The team performs a rapid makeover of a badly contaminated
  bathroom for the series' next installment, utilizing state-of-the-art
  mold remediation techniques.

  Public concerns over indoor mold have continued to grow over the past
  several years with increased media attention to this serious indoor
  environmental topic. Numerous Central New York residences,
  businesses, schools and healthcare facilities have been adversely
  affected in recent months, and given the recent damp weather, mold-
  related problems will remain on the rise.

  Lifetime's How Clean is Your House? at:
  http://www.lifetimetv.com/shows/clean/index.html

  Posted by ~LisaMarie http::/www.moldacrossamerica.org &
  http::/www.moldpets.org








>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

#2089 From: bjcody@...
Date: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:26 am
Subject: Re: [DisabilityParty] Walk 4 FreeDom (l.a. to d.c.)...update
jimbomri
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Dr NATH makes TO USA DR LIST 4th year in a row less then 1% of all
250,000 drs make this list http://www.drnathmri.com

#2088 From: "elvira52" <Elvira52@...>
Date: Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:08 am
Subject: [DisabilityParty] Walk 4 FreeDom (l.a. to d.c.)...update
maatqueen
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
 

 
----- Original Message -----
written by billion
edited by warren williams (due to unfortunate circumstances, warren williams has withdrawn himself from Walkin in this event!!!)

GOD WILLIN, MonDay October 18, 2004 a group of Africans who reside n
Los Angeles, Will set out on a 'Walk 4 FreeDom'  journeying to Washington D.C.
-This walk is to promote awareness of the African Holocaust, address the
lack of interests in the African community by both front-runners in this
presidential election and to
Unite a National Effort in Resolvin Our
Issues OurSelves
.
Some of the issues giving purpose to this 'Walk 4 FreeDom' are: Reparations, Justice, Abolish the Three Strikes Law,  Educate Youth on World History Facts, End Homelessness, End Willie Lynch Mind Control and Politicial Control of the Masses, Opposition to Porno, Protection of Children's Innocence from campaigns in support of gays, End of Wrongful incareration of lacks, Prosecution of Police and Public Review boards created and appointed by community residents to end Police Terrorism, Healthy Diets,  Prosecution of misrepresenting Attorneys, Prosecution of Social Workers for Fraud, Prosecution of Judges for abuse of authority, Wellness Centers to replace harmful medical centers that kill and wrongly nedicate for profit, unfair Land distribution, housing fraud, Stand against the injustices to the Global African Communities, the ReLease of All Political Prisoners and others unjustly incarcerated and more...

-Presently, there is a Rally shceduled for MonDay October 18, 2004 to be held in Leimert Park (CrenShaw Blvd. and Vernon Ave.) at 5pm. We are set to depart on Foot from Leimert Park (CrenShaw Blvd. and Vernon Ave.) at approximately, 6pmGOD WILLIN, We Will go North on Leimert Blvd. and then head East on Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd. and journey on until We arrive in Washington d.c. We are scheduled to arrive in Washington d.c. on Black TuesDay November 2, 2004.

-Support Our Departure and Rally:
You may participate in the Walk by being at Leimert Park no later than 5:45pm. On the way, we will stop, clean up a corner, alley or something, leave a flag as a symbolic message of Reparations (Defined as Repair of our Race and Communities), Relief from all the America Ills, and Restitution for the African Holocaust past and persisting. We will do this in each city as we Walk to Washington d.c.
 
YOUR HELP AND SUPPORT IS NEEDED: 
This is shhooort notice. However, We are asking for Your assistance by
any means. We are in need of funding, survival resources, contact
information in other cities between here and d.c. (especially media and grassroots
organizations contact info), a possible vehicle (in case of any emergencies), and
Most Importantly Prayers. GOD WILLIN, this trip Will happen regardless.
Here's a list of some items needed:
Reparations Flags
Reparations Buttons
Can Snack Food
Wrapped crackers
Peanut Butter
Persons to communicate and update media and others by phone and email
Persons to send supplies
donations for gas
laptop computer
film for photos, digitial video camera
Willing persons to drive along the route
new sleeping bags
advice from people who have crossed the country before
decoration of van or cars that travel the route with us
firstaid kits
promoters, ads and distributions
issues of importance in Blacks and World Best Interest to add

WE ARE SACRIFICING TO BRING ATTENTION TO BLACK NEEDS, CONCERNS,
RIGHTS AND ISSUES. WE DO NOT WANT OR NEED PEOPLE TO FOCUS ON WHO WE ARE BUT WHAT WE ARE DOING AND WHY. 
WE NEED ALL PEOPLE TO GET BEHIND US AND SUPPORT WHAT WE ARE
DOING...BRING ABOUT CORRECT CHANGE AND HAVE THE DEBT AMERICA OWES BLACKS PAID...NOW!!!

Looking Forward...never falling backwards...
November 3rd, We Will Learn that it is going to take more than voting
over the next 1460+ Days to deal w/ the hell that awaits Us.

Everyone is needed to participate and Walk across your city. Let's responsively demand what is ours!!!
 
 
 
-Billion    
(323) 732-1157     Billion_Atomic@...
 
All Is N Da HANDS Of I AM
I AM'S WILL Is Done 


Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.

The National Disability Party Website is at:
http://www.disabilityparty.com/




#2087 From: "lazyaffiliate" <lazyaffiliate@...>
Date: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:38 am
Subject: This is the most important message you will read this year!
lazyaffiliate
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I have many friends that have seen amazing results with thier pain.
Bills wife is now able to walk again.
Please listen to the audios below. Call me if you would like to talk
to others that have tried it. 703 222-3711

If you are looking for better health or want to make money helping
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Audio #1
Listen to Dr. Walters
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Here are some great Xango Product Testimonials.
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http://RobertWAnderson.com

#2086 From: "elvira52" <Elvira52@...>
Date: Sun Oct 3, 2004 11:54 pm
Subject: Re: Re: [DisabilityConvention] *Ultimate Marginalizations* (was re government...
maatqueen
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Daniel,
 
Good question.
 
 Massage TherapistI think this is one great thing for pain beside a great bed and a little peace.
 
Elvira 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ChronicPainCooperate] Re: [DisabilityConvention] *Ultimate Marginalizations* (was re government...

what is POC ?


=> => Please do not be hesitant, but be thoughtful; consider who is here.  <== <==  Chronic Pain Cooperate 1999. Founder. Posts are copyright 1999,2000 by the orginal authors and l.d. misek-falkoff.



#2085 From: "Daniel Crane" <rrabbit1@...>
Date: Sun Oct 3, 2004 10:20 pm
Subject: Re: Re: [DisabilityConvention] *Ultimate Marginalizations* (was re government...
brnnbunny
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
what is POC ?

#2084 From: "elvira52" <Elvira52@...>
Date: Sun Oct 3, 2004 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: Re: [DisabilityConvention] *Ultimate Marginalizations* (was re government...
maatqueen
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Lee,
 
 suicide is never the answer in many cases it doesn't work any way so why try it? This is only my Opinion there's the internet now make friends keep the positive and delete all others.
 
The Beach is a great hang out if you can just get there think about Family Good or bad and you will be OK but never suicide.
 
Peace & Love
 
Elvira
 
----- O riginal Message -----
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 9:02 AM
Subject: [ChronicPainCooperate] Re: [DisabilityConvention] *Ultimate Marginalizations* (was re government...

Well, there we are.  Your illustrations drawn from real life being concrete and compelling say as much as, or more than, any theory could try to. 
 
I believe we should look over the Convention Drafts with a view toward banishing planned ("obscelescence") neglect whether through lack of education or deliberate abandonment, along with the currently hilited,  up-front over-reaching of powers into the lives of Persons with Disabilities.  
 
That is - let us not be deterred in meeting the challenge of all sorts of control mechanisms that would side-line Persons with Disabilities.  Even to ultimate points of disconnection; we may have to do most of the linking for the very energy consuming "first phases," but connections can be and are being made. 
 
See you in the "work week!"  Nice conversing.
Best wishes, Dr. L. D. Misek-Falkoff
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [DisabilityConvention] *Ultimate Marginalizations* (was re government...

>
> My first thght was that I had never heard of RSD being a terminal illness  or
> untreatable.  I know folks with the implants who had very good success  qwith
> the pain.
> When I was in the pain clinic and told 'rational suicide; was appropriate  in
> my case I remember telling the director, a psychiatrist, that to me the 
> definition of depression and chronic pain were the same: hopelessness and 
> helplessness.
> Freiud said that life was about having having work and love, that made it 
> worth living.  I belive those would be considered 'assets' in the nono  typical
> definition of the word.
> The loss of the emotional supposrts or ADL are causes of suicididality and 
> the acting out of it.
> It is intersting, also, as a personal note, that I had that exact 
> conversation life vs demise, with a neurologist about my potential  suicide.  He was
> talking about I shouldn't want to die or kill  myself.  I told him that was not
> the issue.  I did not want to die per  se, I did want to live but I wanted and
> needed to get rid of the pain.  In  doing what had to be done to do that,
> suicide, I would be having death as a  known risk of my actions not as a primary
> drive. 
>  
>  
>  
> :
> Prefatory note:  this thread is on physical pain but in no way  implies there
> are not other kinds of pain, that is not feeling physical but  somehow
> otherwise e.g. emotional or spritual to the person - without stopping  here to
> discuss mind/body issues, which are manifold as we have said and  complicated
> mappings).
>
> I have a bit more recall now - that perhaps RSD  (used to be called
> "causalgia" then "reflex sympathetic dystrophy", and now ...  help me out with the
> later term?)  was a topic where the time until death  was predicted in units and
> the disabling by most definitions kicked in.   And by the way - in our
> International Disability Convention discussion  contexts,  if the social view of the
> medical professions was  "hopelessness," then here seems an instant of
> disablement by environment not  impairment?
>
> Appreciate the suggested idea of loss of the asset of 'no  pain' here, 
> though was thinking of loss of ability to move about and even  as with many to
> leave the house or home.  Again, I do appreciate the idea  of asset loss which
> would be very interesting to take further. Even in terms of  the conventrionally
> listed ADLs (activities of daily living) - those activities  can be said to be
> really basic  assets )! 
>
> PS: Last night  someone was speaking on the dual draw to eros and thanitos
> which they described  as life/love versus demise.  Some theories say the latter
> is the greater  draw but in my view the former is, "hands down."  No contest. 
> And ...  we do have some last apparent last writings of some who are said to
> have taken  their lives because the pain was was so great.  i think we can
> communicate  some of this to "doctors" in terms of wanting life, not death.
>
> More ideas  ... ? ...
>
> :) LDMF. 
> Best wishes, Dr. L. D.  Misek-Falkoff
> International Disability Convention Caucus.
>
> -----  Original Message -----
> From: leejcaroll@...
> To:  DisabilityConvention@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 10:31  AM
> Subject: Re: [DisabilityConvention] Government-Induced Suiciding of the  Poor
>
>
> In a message dated 10/2/2004 6:37:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
> ldmf@... writes:
> I have a question that may be related,  POC.  People who request medication
> for pain so that they can function are  frequently denied lest they "become
> addicted."  But there is medical school  literature on the web, location not
> immediately;  which says people with  untreated often called chronic, but can be
> chronically sever, pain will  eventually have a much reduced quality of life
> and die "ahead of time."   There were even predictions of how long (months or
> years) this would take.   Related?  LDMF.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Party of  Citizens
> To: DisabilityConvention@yahoogroups.com
> Cc:  Ingram-Show-Past-And-Future@yahoogroups.com ; bcrants@yahoogroups.com
> bcpolitics@yahoogroups.com ; UNIVERSALHUMANRIGHTS@yahoogroups.com
> endingpoverty@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 7:53  PM
> Subject: [DisabilityConvention] Government-Induced Suiciding of the  Poor
>
>
> Let me clarify. I wasn't blaming the government for  gambling-related
> suicides. I just pointed out that both gambling-related  suicides and poverty-related
> suicides (in some categories) have ASSET LOSS in  common. Thus we can expect
> that when people are threatened with loss of   food and shelter, as thousands
> are threatened with daily in BC, SOME WILL BE  SUICIDED. Government know this.
> So is it using suicide to cull out the useless  eaters?
> I think "asset loss" is almost always a deciding factor in  suicidality. 
> There is a loss: spouse, money, physical ability,  Pain  in that it is the loss
> of no pain (for lack of a better way to put it.)
> i  think we stretch the net too far when we say that undertreatment of pain
> is a  culling of the pain population. My feeling from dealing with docs for so
> many  years re: pain is that the ones who are not recently graduated come from
> the old  school, regardless of the literature, and belive that addiction is
> worse than  pain and do not acce[pt  the literature that shows thosd with pain
> have a  lower risk of addicition becaus it is for physical pain and not for
> fun.
> I  don't know the lit, and would love a cite if you have one, Linda, but
> would be  surprised if the population studied was a large enough one to (Cant
> think of the  word) go out to the entire  populaion,.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>  
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>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DisabilityConvention/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     DisabilityConvention-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
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>  
>
>
>

=> => Please do not be hesitant, but be thoughtful; consider who is here.  <== <==  Chronic Pain Cooperate 1999. Founder. Posts are copyright 1999,2000 by the orginal authors and l.d. misek-falkoff.



#2083 From: "L. D. Misek-Falkoff" <include@...>
Date: Sun Oct 3, 2004 1:02 pm
Subject: Re: [DisabilityConvention] *Ultimate Marginalizations* (was re government...
includey2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Well, there we are.  Your illustrations drawn from real life being concrete and compelling say as much as, or more than, any theory could try to. 
 
I believe we should look over the Convention Drafts with a view toward banishing planned ("obscelescence") neglect whether through lack of education or deliberate abandonment, along with the currently hilited,  up-front over-reaching of powers into the lives of Persons with Disabilities.  
 
That is - let us not be deterred in meeting the challenge of all sorts of control mechanisms that would side-line Persons with Disabilities.  Even to ultimate points of disconnection; we may have to do most of the linking for the very energy consuming "first phases," but connections can be and are being made. 
 
See you in the "work week!"  Nice conversing.
Best wishes, Dr. L. D. Misek-Falkoff
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [DisabilityConvention] *Ultimate Marginalizations* (was re government...

>
> My first thght was that I had never heard of RSD being a terminal illness  or
> untreatable.  I know folks with the implants who had very good success  qwith
> the pain.
> When I was in the pain clinic and told 'rational suicide; was appropriate  in
> my case I remember telling the director, a psychiatrist, that to me the 
> definition of depression and chronic pain were the same: hopelessness and 
> helplessness.
> Freiud said that life was about having having work and love, that made it 
> worth living.  I belive those would be considered 'assets' in the nono  typical
> definition of the word.
> The loss of the emotional supposrts or ADL are causes of suicididality and 
> the acting out of it.
> It is intersting, also, as a personal note, that I had that exact 
> conversation life vs demise, with a neurologist about my potential  suicide.  He was
> talking about I shouldn't want to die or kill  myself.  I told him that was not
> the issue.  I did not want to die per  se, I did want to live but I wanted and
> needed to get rid of the pain.  In  doing what had to be done to do that,
> suicide, I would be having death as a  known risk of my actions not as a primary
> drive. 
>  
>  
>  
> :
> Prefatory note:  this thread is on physical pain but in no way  implies there
> are not other kinds of pain, that is not feeling physical but  somehow
> otherwise e.g. emotional or spritual to the person - without stopping  here to
> discuss mind/body issues, which are manifold as we have said and  complicated
> mappings).
>
> I have a bit more recall now - that perhaps RSD  (used to be called
> "causalgia" then "reflex sympathetic dystrophy", and now ...  help me out with the
> later term?)  was a topic where the time until death  was predicted in units and
> the disabling by most definitions kicked in.   And by the way - in our
> International Disability Convention discussion  contexts,  if the social view of the
> medical professions was  "hopelessness," then here seems an instant of
> disablement by environment not  impairment?
>
> Appreciate the suggested idea of loss of the asset of 'no  pain' here, 
> though was thinking of loss of ability to move about and even  as with many to
> leave the house or home.  Again, I do appreciate the idea  of asset loss which
> would be very interesting to take further. Even in terms of  the conventrionally
> listed ADLs (activities of daily living) - those activities  can be said to be
> really basic  assets )! 
>
> PS: Last night  someone was speaking on the dual draw to eros and thanitos
> which they described  as life/love versus demise.  Some theories say the latter
> is the greater  draw but in my view the former is, "hands down."  No contest. 
> And ...  we do have some last apparent last writings of some who are said to
> have taken  their lives because the pain was was so great.  i think we can
> communicate  some of this to "doctors" in terms of wanting life, not death.
>
> More ideas  ... ? ...
>
> :) LDMF. 
> Best wishes, Dr. L. D.  Misek-Falkoff
> International Disability Convention Caucus.
>
> -----  Original Message -----
> From: leejcaroll@...
> To:  DisabilityConvention@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 10:31  AM
> Subject: Re: [DisabilityConvention] Government-Induced Suiciding of the  Poor
>
>
> In a message dated 10/2/2004 6:37:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
> ldmf@... writes:
> I have a question that may be related,  POC.  People who request medication
> for pain so that they can function are  frequently denied lest they "become
> addicted."  But there is medical school  literature on the web, location not
> immediately;  which says people with  untreated often called chronic, but can be
> chronically sever, pain will  eventually have a much reduced quality of life
> and die "ahead of time."   There were even predictions of how long (months or
> years) this would take.   Related?  LDMF.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Party of  Citizens
> To: DisabilityConvention@yahoogroups.com
> Cc:  Ingram-Show-Past-And-Future@yahoogroups.com ; bcrants@yahoogroups.com
> bcpolitics@yahoogroups.com ; UNIVERSALHUMANRIGHTS@yahoogroups.com
> endingpoverty@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 7:53  PM
> Subject: [DisabilityConvention] Government-Induced Suiciding of the  Poor
>
>
> Let me clarify. I wasn't blaming the government for  gambling-related
> suicides. I just pointed out that both gambling-related  suicides and poverty-related
> suicides (in some categories) have ASSET LOSS in  common. Thus we can expect
> that when people are threatened with loss of   food and shelter, as thousands
> are threatened with daily in BC, SOME WILL BE  SUICIDED. Government know this.
> So is it using suicide to cull out the useless  eaters?
> I think "asset loss" is almost always a deciding factor in  suicidality. 
> There is a loss: spouse, money, physical ability,  Pain  in that it is the loss
> of no pain (for lack of a better way to put it.)
> i  think we stretch the net too far when we say that undertreatment of pain
> is a  culling of the pain population. My feeling from dealing with docs for so
> many  years re: pain is that the ones who are not recently graduated come from
> the old  school, regardless of the literature, and belive that addiction is
> worse than  pain and do not acce[pt  the literature that shows thosd with pain
> have a  lower risk of addicition becaus it is for physical pain and not for
> fun.
> I  don't know the lit, and would love a cite if you have one, Linda, but
> would be  surprised if the population studied was a large enough one to (Cant
> think of the  word) go out to the entire  populaion,.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/iGurlB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DisabilityConvention/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     DisabilityConvention-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  
>
>
>

#2082 From: "elvira52" <Elvira52@...>
Date: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:53 pm
Subject: I need a Doctor that can be trusted bad!! Some interesting info on this Lupus thing
maatqueen
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I really don't think I have Lupus my pain comes from a Policeman, Ford car,
and working as a Banquet waitress for so many years. if I could just get a
Doctor to check my Neck injury that the  policeman injured 2/02 and my back
much of the pain come from the injuries . because of who I'm that is a very
hard thing for me to do finding a Doctor that can be trusted Living in
Florida.

Please will someone please help me fine a Doctor that could be trusted Neck
and Back 4 injuries to my back on top of the problems I'm having with the
mold, Please help me. I feel I'm being treated for something I don't have
and the thing that is wrong is being passed over. and Please Don't forget
what they did to me when I where in the  Broward General Hospital Broward
County Florida.

Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 8:03 AM
Subject:  I was Kidnapped From my Hospital Bed Broward General Hospital!!!
WHY??? Check the date I sent the story out.

the Lone Activist

Elvira


> More good news than bad - it might even be something
> worth considering incorporating in the mold issue...
>
>
> What is lupus?
>  Lupus is a widespread and chronic (lifelong)
> autoimmune disease that, for unknown  reasons, causes
> the immune system to attack the body's own tissue and
> organs,  including the joints, kidneys, heart, lungs,
> brain, blood, or skin.  The immune system normally
> protects the body against viruses, bacteria, and other
> foreign materials. In an autoimmune disease like
> lupus, the immune system loses its  ability to tell
> the difference between foreign substances and its own
> cells and tissue.  The immune system then makes
> antibodies directed against "self."
>
> What are the symptoms of lupus?
>  Symptoms of lupus often mimic other less serious
> illnesses.  Symptoms can range from mild to
> life-threatening.  Lupus can go into periods where
> symptoms are not present, called remission.  Although
> lupus can affect any part of the body, most people
> experience symptoms in  only a few organs. The
> following lists the most common symptoms of lupus and
> the percentage of lupus patients who experience them.
>
> Symptom  Percentage of Cases
>
> Achy joints (arthralgia)  95%
> Frequent fevers of more than 100 degrees F.90%
> Arthritis (swollen joints)  90%
> Prolonged or extreme fatigue 81%
> Skin rashes 74%
> Anemia  71%
> Kidney involvement  50%
> Pain in the chest on deep breathing (pleurisy) 45%
> Butterfly-shaped rash across the cheek and nose 42%
> Sun or light sensitivity (photosensitivity) 30%
> Hair loss 27%
> Abnormal blood clotting problems 20%
> Raynaud's phenomenon
> (fingers turning white and/or blue in the cold) 17%
> Seizures 15%
> Mouth or nose ulcers  12%
>
> What are the different forms of lupus?
> There are several forms of lupus: discoid, systemic,
> drug-induced, and overlap syndrome or mixed connective
> tissue disease.
>
>  Discoid (cutaneous) lupus is always limited to the
> skin and is identified by a rash  that may appear on
> the face, neck and scalp. Discoid lupus accounts for
> approximately 10% of all cases.
>
> Systemic lupus is usually more severe than discoid
> lupus, and can affect the skin,  joints, and almost
> any organ or system of the body, including the lungs,
> kidneys,  heart or brain. Approximately 70% of lupus
> cases are systemic. In about half of  these cases, a
> major organ will be affected.
>
> Drug-induced lupus occurs after the use of certain
> prescribed drugs. The symptoms  of drug-induced lupus
> are similar to systemic lupus. The drugs most commonly
> connected with drug-induced lupus are hydralazine
> (used to treat high blood  pressure or hypertension)
> and procainamide (used to treat irregular heart
> rhythms).  The percentage of individuals using these
> drugs who develop drug-induced lupus is  extremely
> small, and the symptoms usually fade when the
> medications are  discontinued.
>
> In approximately 10% of all lupus cases, individuals
> will have symptoms and signs  of more than one
> connective tissue disease, including lupus. A
> physician may use  the term "overlap syndrome" or
> "mixed connective tissue disease" to describe the
> illness.
>
> Who gets lupus?
> It is difficult to determine an exact number of lupus
> cases, and estimates vary widely.  Based on the
> results of several nationwide telephone surveys, the
> Lupus Foundation  of America estimates that
> approximately 1,500,000 Americans have a form of the
> disease.
>
> Despite the fact that lupus can affect men and women
> of all ages, lupus occurs 10 to  15 times more
> frequently among adult females than adult males.
>
> Lupus develops most often between ages 15 and 44.
> Lupus is two to three times more common among African
> Americans, Hispanics,  Asians, and Native Americans.
>  Only 10 percent of people with lupus will have a
> close relative (parent or sibling)  who already has
> lupus or may develop lupus.
> Only about 5 percent of the children born to
> individuals with lupus will develop the  illness.
>
> What causes lupus?
>  Lupus is NOT infectious, rare, or cancerous or AIDS
>  Researchers do not know what causes lupus.
>  While scientists believe there is a genetic
> predisposition to the disease, it is known  that
> environmental factors also play a role in triggering
> the disease.
>
> Some of the factors that may trigger lupus include
> infections, antibiotics, ultraviolet  light, extreme
> stress, certain drugs, and hormones. Hormonal factors
> may explain why lupus occurs more frequently in
> females than in males.
>
> How is lupus diagnosed?
> Because many lupus symptoms mimic other illnesses,
> are sometimes vague, and may come and go, lupus can be
> difficult to diagnose.
>
> Diagnosis is usually made by a careful review of:a
> person's entire medical history, physical examination,
> coupled with an analysis of the results obtained in
> routine laboratory tests and some specialized  tests
> related to immune status.
>
> Currently, there is no single laboratory test that
> can determine whether a person has lupus or not. It
> may take months or even years for doctors to piece
> together evolving symptoms and accurately diagnose
> lupus.
>
> How is lupus treated?
> For the vast majority of people with lupus, effective
> treatment can minimize symptoms, reduce inflammation,
> and maintain normal body functions.
>
>  Treatment approaches are based on the specific needs
> and symptoms of each  person.  Because the
> characteristics and course of lupus may vary
> significantly among  individuals, it is important to
> emphasize that a thorough medical evaluation and
> ongoing medical supervision are essential to ensure
> proper diagnosis and treatment.
>
> Medications are often prescribed for people with
> lupus, depending on which organs  are involved, and
> the severity of involvement.
> Commonly prescribed medications include
>  nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs)
> (aspirin, Advil,),
>  acetaminophen (Tylenol)
>  corticosteroids (prednisone)
>  antimalarials, and immunomodulating drugs.
>
> Increased professional awareness and improved
> diagnostic techniques and evaluation methods are
> contributing to the early diagnosis and treatment of
> lupus. With current methods of therapy 80-90% of
> people with non-organ threatening lupus can look
> forward to a normal lifespan.
> -*******************************************************
>  As You Get Better
>
> Herxheimer Reaction
> If you are familiar with the concept of a "healing
> crisis" then you already know what the Herxheimer
> Reaction is.  Simply stated, it is a reaction that
> occurs when the body is detoxifying and the released
> toxins either exacerbate the  symptoms being treated
> or create their own symptoms such as headaches, body
> ache, joint pain, sweating, general malaise, sore
> throat, nausea and/or flu-like symptoms.
>
> The reaction is caused by an immune system reaction
> to the toxins (endotoxins) that are released when
> large amounts of  pathogens are being killed off and
> the body does not eliminate the toxins quickly enough.
>
>
> HIstory
>
> The Herxheimer brothers  noticed that in response to
> treatment,  many patients developed not only fever,
> perspiration, night sweats, nausea and vomiting, but
> their skin lesions became  larger and more inflamed
> before settling down and healing. Interestingly, they
> found that those who had the most extreme  reactions,
> healed the best and fastest. The patient might be ill
> for 2-3 days, but then their lesions resolved.
>
> Although the experience may not feel particularly
> good, the Herxheimer Reaction is actually a sign that
> healing is taking  place.
>
> Lupus Foundation  of America, Inc.
> 2000 L Street, N.W., Suite 710
> Washington, DC 20036
> Phone 202-349-1155
> Fax 202-349-1156
> www.lupus.org
> Lupus Fact Sheet
>
>
> =====
> Linda A DorseyPhone:    954-765-1381efax:     1-501-648-8169email:
> ladorsey@...:
> http://resumes.yahoo.com/ladorsey8/ladorseygeneral Homepage:
> http://hometown.aol.com/ladorsey8/myhomepage/business.html
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

#2081 From: "L. D. Misek-Falkoff" <include@...>
Date: Tue Sep 7, 2004 12:08 am
Subject: Re: [DisabilityConvention] Bush adnministration targets prescription drug abuse, news article 3/94
includey2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Carol and hello all:
 
Chronic Pain of course  and Chronic Severe Pain and Episodic Actute Pain have been undertreated for many years.  There is nothing new about restricting access to pain medications, but the slim access will now it appears be even slimmer.  Medication is too big a subject to undertake in a short note especially because of the stigma, yet many people are imprisoned in their bodies and unable to function because of the misuse of preparations by others not really needing them. 
 
I respond to your note knowing it is a matter to be carefully considered and not just given a few words.  However, for the Disability Convention and your welcome role at the "Treaty" meetings, your unanticipated but welcome post gives opportunity to point out or posit that withholding of medical treatment is in human rights terms equally horrendous as exerting pharmaceutical hyper control over others to whom a medical approach is inappropriate, and, at the other end of spectrum, are over-pharma'd not under. 
 
Again, control issues, where the political will of persons with disabilities must rise up to meet and conquer stigma, encroachments, indifference.
 
P.S. If you did not gather from the above, your post much appreciated. :)
Best wishes, LindaMF Dr. L. D. Misek-Falkoff
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 7:53 PM
Subject: [DisabilityConvention] Bush adnministration targets prescription drug abuse, news article 3/94

> White House targets prescription drug  abuse
> By Associated Press
> Published March 2,  2004
>
>
>
> WASHINGTON - The Bush administration is pushing for stronger  state
> monitoring of prescription drug use in a crackdown on the escalating abuse  of
> sedatives, pain relievers and stimulants.
> Under the strategy announced  Monday, the government will pay states to help
> develop monitoring systems to  track patients' drug use. The programs would
> flag cases indicating a pattern of  abuse, such as "doctor shopping," where a
> patient gets prescriptions for drugs  from multiple physicians.
> Federal officials also plan to seek out pharmacies  that sell controlled
> substances illegally over the Internet, which will entail  deploying modern
> Web-crawler technology to search out those peddling  prescription drugs online.
> The goal, say federal health officials: reduce  illegal drug use by 10
> percent in two years and by 25 percent in five  years.
> "The nonmedical use of prescription drugs has become an increasingly 
> widespread and serious problem in this country, one that calls for immediate 
> action," John Walters, director of the White House Office of National Drug  Control
> Policy, said at a news conference.
> In addition, the White House is to  convene a conference of representatives
> from professional sports leagues and the  U.S. Olympic Committee to discuss
> steroid use by athletes.
> Prescription  medicine now ranks second, behind marijuana, among drugs most
> abused by adults  and young people, according to a report by the drug control
> office. Meanwhile,  emergency room visits resulting from abuse of narcotic pain
> relievers have  jumped 163 percent since 1995, it said.
> The plan would dedicate about  $10-million in federal money to augment
> prescription monitoring programs in 20  states and expand them to 11 more states by
> next year. Another $138-million  would be dedicated toward physician training
> and education programs as well as  fighting illegal Internet sales.
> Ethan Nadelmann, executive director of the  Drug Policy Alliance, which
> supports legalizing marijuana for medical use, said  Bush's plan will have a
> chilling effect on doctors.
> "The principal impact of  this campaign when you step up the law enforcement
> response is that doctors will  err on the side of undertreating pain,"
> Nadelmann said.
> Karen Tandy, head of  the Drug Enforcement Administration, said teenagers are
> particularly at risk for  prescription drug abuse. It is her agency's job to
> crack down on illegal  Internet sales, including the flood of spam with the
> lure of controlled  substances at a low cost.
> "Criminals who divert legal drugs into the illegal  market are no different
> from a cocaine or heroin dealer peddling poisons on the  street corner," she
> said. "DEA is aggressively working to put an end to this  illicit practice
> whether it occurs in doctors' offices or  cyberspace."
> Federal officials noted a University of Michigan study that  found abuse by
> high school seniors of Vicodin more than double the use of  cocaine, Ecstasy or
> methamphetamine.
> [Last modified March 2, 2004,  01:44:59]
>
>
>
>
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>

#2080 From: "L. D. Misek-Falkoff" <include@...>
Date: Mon Sep 6, 2004 5:01 pm
Subject: Fw: "LABELS STICK" - a phrase of note, from Colin's sharing: Dissecting DSM
includey2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 12:58 PM
Subject: "LABELS STICK" - a phrase of note, from Colin's sharing: Dissecting DSM

Interesting link Colin,  thanks for it, some real nuggets therein (as set forth in the quote in the subject line here).
 
Best wishes, Dr. L. D. Misek-Falkoff
 
----- Original Message -----
From: ColRevs
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 8:52 AM
Subject: [DisabilityConvention] Dissecting DSM


____________________________________________________________________________
This email and all attachments have been scanned by Kingston Communications'
email Anti-Virus service and no known viruses were detected.
____________________________________________________________________________

#2079 From: "L. D. Misek-Falkoff" <include@...>
Date: Sat Sep 4, 2004 9:11 pm
Subject: Re (LDMF and Carol meet up at the UN Disability Treaty Meetings, frame new oplans.
includey2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
First day home! 
A pleasure meeting up with you a second time at the UN Carol and heads are chock full of bright new plans to bring forward disabling or potentially disabling aspects of chronic pain.  We will both be posting more (watch subject lines, all) and thanks so  much for coming.  A real pleasure, as well as work.   Trust we will be paving that path for more from INM to join in also.
 
Warm regards, LDMF.
Best wishes, Dr. L. D. Misek-Falkoff
 
p.s. your networking is so fine!
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 8:18 PM
Subject: [invisible-NO-MORE] (no subject)

wanted to let you know that I met up with Linda (LDMF) at the UN for the disability treaty meetings  I was only able to spend two days there but she has been there for the much of the time and is doing a lot of work towards making the voices here and on some other lists heard.

#2078 From: "mystichi0714" <mystichi0714@...>
Date: Mon Aug 23, 2004 4:44 pm
Subject: 6 HRS FREE LIVE CE - ONLINE
mystichi0714
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
We use the Internet for just about anything these days, why not use
it to obtain your Continuing Education Requirements!
Go to www.ceanswers.com  select "trade show ce" from the bottom of
the menu and follow the prompts and print out your certificate.
While you are there check out our site, and don't forget to sign the
guest book so we can send you more free CE!

#2077 From: "L. D. Misek-Falkoff" <include@...>
Date: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:39 pm
Subject: Email During the Disability Convention Meetings Aug. 23 - Sep. 3. Mine: outreach2004@.... Thank you.
includey2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Greetings,
 
It is wonderful the 4th ADHOC Meetings on the International Disability Convention (Treaty) are starting up now, with colleagues and now friends too from around the world looking forward to professional and personal re-linking (off the Internet too this time!) 
 
A bonus,  additive to the precious progress toward equal enjoyment of human rights in all aspects and phases of living. 
 
We are hoping to meet up with more of us in the future at the U.N. and relatedly, and it is inspiring thinking of it, and indeed also of coming back here in a bit.
 
May I please request that email that is for me goes both to ldmf@...  and outreach2004@... , as I am not sure which will be more reachable.  Others may have some preferences along this line also.
 
Sending very best Sunday good wishes,  L. D. Misek-Falkoff, Ph.D, J.D., PWD, PWP.
 

#2076 From: "L. D. Misek-Falkoff" <include@...>
Date: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:35 pm
Subject: Re: Important Protest Announcement
includey2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Thank you for this notice.  Heading in the other direction in NY just now for the UN Disability Treaty upcoming, or would try to be there.  Please keep us informed.  Want to keep connected.
And if you are in NY perhaps you might be interested in future UN meetings; I have spoken about pain there and would like to link up with you off-list if you prefer.
 
Best wishes, Dr. L. D. Misek-Falkoff
 
For  Identification:  President and International Ambassador, The National Disability Party;
Member Planning Committee 57th Annual U.N. DPI NGO Fall Meetings at the U.N. in NYC;
Member Disability Caucus to the U.N. Disability Convention (Treaty);
Recording Secretary & Member of the Board of Directors, Communications Coordination Committee for the U.N.;
(
www.cccun.org), Member Subcommittee on Older Women (of the Committee on the Status of Women; other U.N. and outside NGO's.
Internet Presence (Design, Use) 1960s - including member of design team for GML forerunner of HTML, XML, and founding/moderating online discussion lists.
New Discussion:
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/disab-defam-disc
Ongoing:  http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/picture-it-at-the-UN
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "sprucewolf" <sunwolf@...>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 9:35 PM
Subject: [ChronicPainCooperate] Important Protest Announcement


***IMPORTANT LAST MINUTE NEWS***

There will be a protest in front of the Federal Courthouse located at 100 S=
tate Street
in Rochester, NY on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at noon. This is being done =
to
protest the one year prison sentence handed down to Mark H. Fleischer, MD, =
a pain
management physician and anesthesiologist of Rochester, NY, for a misdemean=
or
conviction for Medicare fraud in the amount of $200.00-a sentence that is n=
ot only
patently unfair given the events that lead up to his prosecution, but is al=
so the key
point of a series of injustices that occurred in his case, leading up to an=
d culminating
in a travesty of justice for everyone involved. There is a doctor who riske=
d everything
to treat our pain going to federal prison- his livelihood in ruins, he and =
his family
devastated emotionally and financially, his reputation shattered-and left b=
ehind are
the 85 patients who were under his care, who are suffering from the sudden,=
 
unexpected loss of their physician as well as their pain treatment.

I am writing this to try to get as many people as I possibly can to attend =
this protest-
or if you can't get there, to spread the word about it to as many people as=
 you
possibly can. It is critically important to all of us who suffer with chron=
ic pain (or have
loved ones that do) because of what will inevitably happen to everybody inv=
olved with
chronic pain and opioid medication if we continue to "ignore" or take no ac=
tion on
issues like this because we feel too overwhelmed or not empowered enough to=
 deal
with them. Every time a physician is rendered unable to practice because of=
 
investigations or prosecutions, it is having a direct effect on all of the =
doctors who
treat chronic pain the same way-causing them to limit, reduce, or restrict =
any
treatment of pain that utilizes opioid medications; and even for some, to r=
etire from it
entirely-- making it that much more difficult for any of us to get the trea=
tment we
need to live without undue suffering. The term "chilling effect" has been c=
oined to
describe this cause and effect or negative feedback process, but whatever w=
ords we
choose to use matters little when it comes down to the reality of what this=
 means to
each of our individual lives. It is clear that we are at a point of serious=
 crisis in the
treatment of pain in our country. The "consensus" document that some of us =
have
been talking about in recent days (the guidelines written by a panel made u=
p of the
DEA, pain treatment physicians and pain treatment policymakers that was rel=
eased on
8/11/04) is a sign that some of this is beginning to be addressed on a nati=
onal level,
but it is only a small first step in the long journey ahead. A journey that=
 involves
translating these guidelines into a workable reality that not only addresse=
s, but
implements the necessary changes that need to be made to the entire system.=


I know there are a lot of strong emotions and mixed feelings surrounding al=
l of what
has gone on with Dr. Fleischer-some of you may have heard about some or all=
 of
this already-and this is why I feel that I have to qualify what I am saying=
 here while
trying to be as objective as I can in my explanation of things. Partly beca=
use in truth,
there wasn't nearly enough communication between Dr. Fleischer and his pati=
ents
when this happened, which as a natural consequence, lead to a serious degre=
e of
uncertainty and misunderstanding among us. I am trying to explain all of th=
is without
judgment, allegation, or implication-just as a set of factual observations =
based upon
my own (and some other patients') experiences. I myself didn't learn of the=
 sentence
until almost two weeks after it was handed down; and it was only when I was=
 calling
his office "business as usual" for my upcoming appointment, that I was told=
 (and
obviously the shock of this "last minute" notification that informed me, wi=
thout any
leeway of time, that my treatment with him was abruptly over, put me in a r=
eally
difficult position as a patient on daily opioid therapy). There's no manual=
 or
guidebook in existence, or set of rules or steps, to follow in a situation =
like this-one
that gives any satisfactory answers as to what to do to meet everybody's ne=
eds, or
how to accomplish this, when involved with a complex and emotionally devast=
ating
situation like this. As a natural consequence of this, some patients feel t=
hat he didn't
do enough for all of us through all this (especially after the sentence was=
 handed
down)-that he in effect abandoned us, that it is possible that he cares mor=
e for
himself than he does for his patients, or that he doesn't care about us in =
the manner
in which he could (or should) have. Or, in looking at that the way he and h=
is wife (who
manages the office) reacted to what happened-and at what they chose to do (=
or not
do) in their handling of this, coupled with the legal measures he took (acc=
eptance of
the plea agreement in which he pled guilty to the fraud charge), could be
extrapolated to mean that he must be guilty of at least this much; and poss=
ibly to
even more.

All of this is germane in the context of the events that transpired as the =
result of the
sentence being handed down; and the real effects it is having on his and on=
 each of
his patient's individual lives-not losing sight of the fact that in any mea=
sure or
evaluation of what transpired as a result of any given situation, hindsight=
 is always
20-20, but in the context of the bigger picture surrounding this case, this=
 needs to
be set aside for now. It needs to be dealt with as a secondary issue for no=
w in order
to focus on the greater good of doing what we can to prevent a miscarriage =
of justice
in the case of a physician who like any of us is not perfect and has made m=
istakes,
but is at heart a good man with a great deal of compassion for others and a=
 proficient
physician who risked all of this in order to treat our pain. To stand up as=
 a united
front, with more in common than not, to do what we can to educate as many p=
eople
as possible about the crisis in pain treatment and to the effects that losi=
ng another
pain management physician has on all of us with chronic pain.

For more information contact Debbie
585-461-5984 or 585-461-5999 (office)
585-223-4838 (home)
Debra031857@... (e-mail)


Thanks for listening and doing what you can to help,

Michele Malone (VT)
sunwolf@...






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--------------------------------------------------------------------~->

 => => Please do not be hesitant, but be thoughtful; consider who is here.  <== <==  Chronic Pain Cooperate 1999. Founder. Posts are copyright 1999,2000 by the orginal authors and l.d. misek-falkoff. 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChronicPainCooperate/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    ChronicPainCooperate-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 



#2075 From: "sharrynlewis" <sharryn_lewis@...>
Date: Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:03 pm
Subject: NURSES RECONNECTED
sharrynlewis
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
www.nursesreconnected.com/resource


Find that nursing friend that you lost contact with!

Excellent reunion site connecting Nurses & Health care workers
throughout the world. Superb free nursing resources & the ability to
find nurses worldwide.

FREE registration

#2074 From: "sprucewolf" <sunwolf@...>
Date: Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:35 am
Subject: Important Protest Announcement
sprucewolf
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
***IMPORTANT LAST MINUTE NEWS***

There will be a protest in front of the Federal Courthouse located at 100 S=
tate Street
in Rochester, NY on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at noon. This is being done =
to
protest the one year prison sentence handed down to Mark H. Fleischer, MD, =
a pain
management physician and anesthesiologist of Rochester, NY, for a misdemean=
or
conviction for Medicare fraud in the amount of $200.00—a sentence that is n=
ot only
patently unfair given the events that lead up to his prosecution, but is al=
so the key
point of a series of injustices that occurred in his case, leading up to an=
d culminating
in a travesty of justice for everyone involved. There is a doctor who riske=
d everything
to treat our pain going to federal prison— his livelihood in ruins, he and =
his family
devastated emotionally and financially, his reputation shattered—and left b=
ehind are
the 85 patients who were under his care, who are suffering from the sudden,=

unexpected loss of their physician as well as their pain treatment.

I am writing this to try to get as many people as I possibly can to attend =
this protest—
or if you can't get there, to spread the word about it to as many people as=
  you
possibly can. It is critically important to all of us who suffer with chron=
ic pain (or have
loved ones that do) because of what will inevitably happen to everybody inv=
olved with
chronic pain and opioid medication if we continue to "ignore" or take no ac=
tion on
issues like this because we feel too overwhelmed or not empowered enough to=
  deal
with them. Every time a physician is rendered unable to practice because of=

investigations or prosecutions, it is having a direct effect on all of the =
doctors who
treat chronic pain the same way—causing them to limit, reduce, or restrict =
any
treatment of pain that utilizes opioid medications; and even for some, to r=
etire from it
entirely-- making it that much more difficult for any of us to get the trea=
tment we
need to live without undue suffering. The term "chilling effect" has been c=
oined to
describe this cause and effect or negative feedback process, but whatever w=
ords we
choose to use matters little when it comes down to the reality of what this=
  means to
each of our individual lives. It is clear that we are at a point of serious=
  crisis in the
treatment of pain in our country. The "consensus" document that some of us =
have
been talking about in recent days (the guidelines written by a panel made u=
p of the
DEA, pain treatment physicians and pain treatment policymakers that was rel=
eased on
8/11/04) is a sign that some of this is beginning to be addressed on a nati=
onal level,
but it is only a small first step in the long journey ahead. A journey that=
  involves
translating these guidelines into a workable reality that not only addresse=
s, but
implements the necessary changes that need to be made to the entire system.=


I know there are a lot of strong emotions and mixed feelings surrounding al=
l of what
has gone on with Dr. Fleischer—some of you may have heard about some or all=
  of
this already—and this is why I feel that I have to qualify what I am saying=
  here while
trying to be as objective as I can in my explanation of things. Partly beca=
use in truth,
there wasn't nearly enough communication between Dr. Fleischer and his pati=
ents
when this happened, which as a natural consequence, lead to a serious degre=
e of
uncertainty and misunderstanding among us. I am trying to explain all of th=
is without
judgment, allegation, or implication—just as a set of factual observations =
based upon
my own (and some other patients') experiences. I myself didn't learn of the=
  sentence
until almost two weeks after it was handed down; and it was only when I was=
  calling
his office "business as usual" for my upcoming appointment, that I was told=
  (and
obviously the shock of this "last minute" notification that informed me, wi=
thout any
leeway of time, that my treatment with him was abruptly over, put me in a r=
eally
difficult position as a patient on daily opioid therapy). There's no manual=
  or
guidebook in existence, or set of rules or steps, to follow in a situation =
like this—one
that gives any satisfactory answers as to what to do to meet everybody's ne=
eds, or
how to accomplish this, when involved with a complex and emotionally devast=
ating
situation like this. As a natural consequence of this, some patients feel t=
hat he didn't
do enough for all of us through all this (especially after the sentence was=
  handed
down)—that he in effect abandoned us, that it is possible that he cares mor=
e for
himself than he does for his patients, or that he doesn't care about us in =
the manner
in which he could (or should) have. Or, in looking at that the way he and h=
is wife (who
manages the office) reacted to what happened—and at what they chose to do (=
or not
do) in their handling of this, coupled with the legal measures he took (acc=
eptance of
the plea agreement in which he pled guilty to the fraud charge), could be
extrapolated to mean that he must be guilty of at least this much; and poss=
ibly to
even more.

All of this is germane in the context of the events that transpired as the =
result of the
sentence being handed down; and the real effects it is having on his and on=
  each of
his patient's individual lives—not losing sight of the fact that in any mea=
sure or
evaluation of what transpired as a result of any given situation, hindsight=
  is always
20-20, but in the context of the bigger picture surrounding this case, this=
  needs to
be set aside for now. It needs to be dealt with as a secondary issue for no=
w in order
to focus on the greater good of doing what we can to prevent a miscarriage =
of justice
in the case of a physician who like any of us is not perfect and has made m=
istakes,
but is at heart a good man with a great deal of compassion for others and a=
  proficient
physician who risked all of this in order to treat our pain. To stand up as=
  a united
front, with more in common than not, to do what we can to educate as many p=
eople
as possible about the crisis in pain treatment and to the effects that losi=
ng another
pain management physician has on all of us with chronic pain.

For more information contact Debbie
585-461-5984 or 585-461-5999 (office)
585-223-4838 (home)
Debra031857@... (e-mail)


Thanks for listening and doing what you can to help,

Michele Malone (VT)
sunwolf@...

#2073 From: "L. D. Misek-Falkoff" <include@...>
Date: Mon Aug 2, 2004 4:04 pm
Subject: ABOUT PAIN - Perhaps former Investigator Kenneth Starr now Dean at Pepperdine can inform us on what is the satire (or parody).
includey2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Reply: *What's the Joke ?*  is a very good question.  Whenever persons wtih disabilities are joked about  - if this is a joke [again, the questions are key human rights ones.
 
A judge did say "parody" (?) and Pepperdine Law Review writes "satire" (as to the author). Those of us - and many have, too many - battled terrible pain *do not get it.*  But we are now I think ethically bound to prevent more distress to pain sufferers based on this sort of misrepresentation.
 
Best wishes, LDMF, Dr. L. D. Misek-Falkoff
 
P.S. We will look at the actual case and others here with interest in both the civil and criminal case/court/law contexts as to how people with disabilities are characterized, and then can ourselves hope to be part of disabusing abuses:
 
----- Original Message -----
 a message dated 8/2/2004 8:00:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, include@... writes:
In this instance, a court decided this was mischaracterizing "parody" (joke, however, not  explained) and dismissed a defamation and related claims by granting first amendment privilege in reportage. Key for us is that it was indeed held to be mischaracterizing.
Linda, can you explain further on what was supposed to be the parody; not necessarily the joke itself but on what the claim was based; alleging parody?  (If the two can be separated.)
Thanks.  Caroll

 

#2072 From: "L. D. Misek-Falkoff" <include@...>
Date: Mon Aug 2, 2004 3:32 pm
Subject: fw fyi Pepperdine Law School April 2004 Wrongly Reporting Physical Pain Case as Mental Disorder Case - but will Dean Kenneth Starr correct it?
includey2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Greetings:
 
For those who followed the long sought success in having Courts acknowledge that an early Rehabilitation Case concerning severe physical pain of Trigeminal Neuralgia  is mischaracterized (reported inaccurately) as a later ADA Case claiming a  Mental Disorder, here is recent correspondence on the matter but by a subsequent republisher of the false depiction.  We respect all such cases as being valid on their own facts and issues regardless whether physical or mental, and refuse to accept persons with disabilities of any type or the claims and self-descriptions that individuals set forth -  as if they can be validly interchangeable by observers; interchangeability is the mind of the observer with agenda, and we struggle to combat all prejudicial blurrings.
 
We continue to urge courts and culture take bodily pain seriously as a potentially disabling condition, and in any event refrain from trivializing it or making fun of any kind of disabilities or imputed disabilities - physical, mental, or otherwise. These detractions do nothing to expand on quality of life through education and awareness, and compassion. Respect for mental disabilities is also imperative.
*Nothing About Us without Us* must stand up to external distortions, and also, alas that they occurs, mockery, detraction, and prejudicial stereotyping.
 
In this instance, a court decided this was mischaracterizing "parody" (joke, however, not  explained) and dismissed a defamation and related claims by granting first amendment privilege in reportage. Key for us is that it was indeed held to be mischaracterizing.  When you bring your causes do not let dismissal on other grounds than accuracy bar your voice; identification of inaccuracies can go a long way to help everyone.
 
More can be said.  Keep on saying the truth all here. Serious pain is not a proper object of derision nor are any disabilities.
 
Best wishes,  Dr. L. D. Misek-Falkoff
 
For  Identification:  President and International Ambassador, The National Disability Party;
Member Planning Committee 57th Annual U.N. DPI NGO Fall Meetings at the U.N. in NYC;
Member Disability Caucus to the U.N. Disability Convention (Treaty);
Recording Secretary & Member of the Board of Directors, Communications Coordination Committee for the U.N.;
(
www.cccun.org), Member Subcommittee on Older Women (of the Committee on the Status of Women; other U.N. and outside NGO's.
Internet Presence (Design, Use) 1960s - including member of design team for GML forerunner of HTML, XML, and founding/moderating online discussion lists.
New Discussion:
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/disab-defam-disc
Ongoing:  http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/picture-it-at-the_UN
 
----- Original Message from Pepperdine Law School and Law Review Professor -----
 
From: Gash, Jim
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 5:12 PM
Subject: Earlier Phone Call

Linda,
 
Thank you for taking the time this morning to educate me on your concerns with Bryan Stephenson's reference to you and your case in his recent law review article in Pepperdine's Law Review.  Thank you also for educating me with respect to your physical condition and your extensive background in law, human rights, and with respect to your tireless work on behalf of the disabled.  I commend you for your efforts and wish you success as you deal with the United Nations.  I also congratulate you on your work with the new Party you now lead.  Most importantly, I pray that you will have relief from the pain and health difficulties with which you are courageously struggling.
 
I have now had an opportunity to review briefly Bryan's reference to you and the lawsuit he cites as the source of his brief reference to your case.  I have consulted with Associate Dean Cupp about the concerns you raised and have given him my thoughts.  Further action or communications, if any, will handled by him or those he designates.  In any event, thank you for bringing this matter to my attention.
 
God Bless You,
 
Jim

#2071 From: "L. D. Misek-Falkoff" <include@...>
Date: Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:47 pm
Subject: Re: LINK TO Article on Pain Medication Under-Prescribing (etc....)
includey2001
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
You get to the essence Carol.  And one may add: 
 
that the quality of life of pwp (persons with pain) is so very detrimented (reduced) in the real world is tragic and we must continue to take a rights not a welfare approach. 
 
Letting people suffer with pain (undertreating) is a very poor solution to confusion states on provider sides. 
 
(This is not a pro-medication post but a pro people post).
 
Best wishes, Linda.
Dr. L. D. Misek-Falkoff
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:59 AM
Subject: [invisible-NO-MORE] Re: [C-O-P-I-N-G_UN] LINK TO Article on Pain Medication Under-Prescribing & r...

In a message dated 7/30/2004 8:47:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, include@... writes:
http://www.painandthelaw.org/news/brushwood_072904.php
Talk about a catch 22 because they are also liable for over prescribing.


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