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Dear Mark,i appreciate ur knowledge on topics like these and
really like to discuss it with u and everybody who can
help me understand through scietific and spritual
ways.
But as u said ''our charts are indicative of what we
will be doing'':so isnt fate already decided?we are
doing (or made to do)what has already been
decided,there is no 'Real' input from our side. a##d
Dear a##d:
I think it's more helpful to realize that both pre-conditionings and freedom do, both co-exist!
This may be hard to understand intellectually, but they both exist on a sliding scale as a reflection of our consciousness, or beings.
On one level, where the inner is almost forgotten, we do identify ourSelves so much to all the qualities and characteristics of our charts.
In those stages, it certainly seems that fate or our pre-conditionings, have their 'way' with us.
But, because it is really just 'us' that have created this chart, then, even though we may feel in prison, it's still really up to us to climb out of our shackles.
And every step that we take in this greatest of life's endeavors, enlivens the inner, literally, infinite potentials of the inner Self and Life.
See below:
From: a##d <myst_ak47@...>
Reply-To: Jyotish_Remedies@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:46:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jyotish_Remedies@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [JR] 2-a##d, ....Re: what happens to the soul after death >> Mark Kincaid 7/2
Yes, I'd agree, it seems like our charts have a lot of 'fate' to them.
Dear Mark,
i appreciate ur knowledge on topics like these and
really like to discuss it with u and everybody who can
help me understand through scietific and spritual
ways.
But as u said ''our charts are indicative of what we
will be doing'':so isnt fate already decided?we are
doing (or made to do)what has already been
decided,there is no 'Real' input from our side.
But, each step that we take towards more and more inner freedom and mastery,
begins to free us from these contraints and limitations.
This is the difference between mechanical machines and human beings.
Its like u create a software and know how u want to
make it run,u give life to that software by creating
it and making it run...i feel like a programmed
software..whos made to run..wheres the real input..the
software doesnt have any choice
Because humans carry within us, by the nature of our very existence, the infinite domain of the Self of the Universe!
In fact, we art 'That',....
is a great Vedic Expression.
Let's see, it goes like this...
"I Am That"
also,
"Thou art That",...
and even...
"All This is That".....
So, even though the life, runs through the predicatable software, as ¥ou said, still, because 'we' are the original orchestrators of our software, then there is freedom, and even free choice.
But, certainly if we seem to be devoid of this inner and especially manifest glory, then we'll certainly feel like more boundries and conditionings dominate...
But, with each step towards inner mastery then any of the limitations and boundries of our previous, scripted life, becomes less and less.
In my own example, not only has the growth of enlightenment, helped me in all the areas of my malefics, but as that inner Self, becomes more and more known, then, all the many limitations
of life, in ignorance, become more and more insignificant!
Don't forget, it was us, that picked this program, to come to this world, and run.
,coz its programmed to
run in a certain way and thats how its going to
run,except that external environment and the way u
handle it can bring some changes in it.
We 'chose' this life, and even though it has many limitations, especially in the beginning, still,
this is one of the things we took birth to do, to accomplish, growing out of our shackles, into the ever, shining light of the inner glory!
I understand. There are many limitations, and even conflicts and tensions, that exist in the nature of our malefics, in our charts.
im not actually doing whats im supposed to be doing
coz im made to have a certain life,which cannot be
changed.
However, as we learn exactly how to #1 understand, and then, #2, transform those same malefics into more balanced patterns, then, their limitations and complications become less and less.
What Jyotish needs to understand, is that the nature of transformation and growth is as important a part of life and even of Jyotish, as the fatalistic aspects are.
If we were to go to a Vedic doctor, or Ayurvedic one, he'd never say, "oh, I'm sorry, you can't improve or balance your ill-health."!
He'd instead, say: "Let's see, what's going on." (He'd feel our pulse and identify the imbalances that are at the root of any of our health complaints or problems.
Then, he'd give us prescriptions to #1, bring our pulse back into balance, and even others, to help us eliminate the deep blocks that are literally, in the tissues and the cells of our bodies.
Let's take an example of some pitta disease like rashes, or skin erruptions. These are called pitta problems, but in truth, the¥'re also related to Mars!
Once we learn how to balance our pitta energy, and create balance, then those erruptions are found, gone!
This means that the Mars energy of our charts, had to also become more in balance.
When I was in India, in 1988, I was told: "Jyotish & Ayurved go hand in hand."
I came back to the states, already fairly proficient in Ayurved, but then, began learning Jyotish.
I found that together, they represent an amazing dual power for self-improvement that together
will enable us, to transform any of the malefics in our charts.
In the future, we'll look at the malefics, of our charts, like imbalances of the pulse, of the Ayurvedic doctor.
And, where Ayurved has much to contribute to helping us improve the functioning and power of the body, I believe that Jyotish has much to contribute to the mental side, or Psychology of life.
In the future, I think we'll realize that Jyotish is pure.....Vedic Psychology!
And, with 'it', we can gain the path to the complete unfoldment of the full mental potential of every human being, through the processes, of self-transformation of those pesky maleifcs!
God may have made 'us' but he also made us as expressions of self-destiny.
Iam whatever i am probably because thats how
HE's made me.and so goes the principle for
everybody.
He made us, but gave us freedom of choice, to either create greater good, or greater darkness.
The choice is up to us.
Both the 2 major traditions of the World, from the East and the West, both believe in the principle, and the power of 'karma' and free will.
SO why appreciate or despire somebody what
what they are,coz its not their choice of wht they
should be.God has already decided if we shud live good
lives or bad lives..why credit mortals for anything at
all?
In the East it's called karma, and in the West it's described in the expression: "as you sow, so shall you reap!"
Even in modern science today, scientists have discovered the inner workings of the atomic realm, obey the Physics law: "for every action, there's an equal and opposite re-action."
In truth, all desires, wishes, and even thoughts, come from the Self, or our souls.
The soul doesnt have a wish or identity of its
own.this karma that we talk of,totally depends on how
god wanted us to be.When god is the one who seems to
be deciding good or bad for us,why shud a human suffer
so much?
This can eaily be proven. Take the thought of a mantra, for example, and think it in the prescribed way, where it allows the mind to settle down, and as we experience earlier and earlier stages of the thought process, we arrive at the Source of All Thought, inside.
This is a state of pure consciousness where the path of mediation led us to discover that we are 'that'!
Once we realize that 'we' are the Self, of our thoughts, and our feelings, and all our wishes, then, we will begin the true mastery of life, where we become as if the 'god' that we used to think, created us.
PS..... it is because our actions, are our own creations, that we suffer, and as we choose to change and improve ourselves, then, our actions and consequences improve!
This is the path of life, the nature of existence, and exercising self, empowerment, shows us, that life is not pulling our strings like a puppet, but it is actually, 'us' that has created, and is creating our lives!
This can easily be tested.
Its already predicted before we are born if we are
going to be good or bad.Everything is decided.Cause i
have faith in true perdictions and i end up feeling
that regardless of ones noble thoughts,u cannot really
change things for good.Its like blindly following
something without have real knowledge abt it.I dont
know if God exists or Hes unfair-why does the soul
pain so much when theres need for truth inside.
As we enter into, especially the inner realms, which you may feel is fated, but, still...
as you have this inner experience, you'll discover that the truest nature of life, is unbounded,
freedom, and a field and existence of unlimited options and possibilities.
As that becomes your own, direct experience, then, you'll revive this opinion and realize thåt life is basically free, though it still obeys many of the laws of nature, especially on the outside.
Our choice resides in the fact, that we chose this birth.
We talk of planetary positions,right?if my planetary
positions are good i feel,think do good,where is my
choice?and even the choice is dependant on planetay
positions,like mortal has no identity!
Our choice resides in the fact, that we choose, every moment to go this way or that way.
But, once we've made our choices, then, it's predictable that we'll encounter this or that.
But, at every stage, we can stop, in our forward march, even turn around and go back in the other direction.
But, once we do, then it'll be inevitable that we'll encounter this house, and that one.
But, at every stage, we're still free to choose, to stop, take a hike, make a call.
And, the more we develop our inner awareness, then the more inner freedom, and infinite mastery and possibilities, becomes our own experience.
Sounds like you may have a lot of Saturn, prominent, in your chart.
There is no truth,no knowledge,we are merely
existing.Theres no meaning to this life,where theres
only pain and suffering and no truth.nothing is
permanent neither happiness nor sorrow,when theres so
much variation,we are living in a world of chaos.
I've found a direct correlation in people's charts between their views of freedom or fate, and the strengthns, or dominance of their Jupiter's or Saturn's.
If Saturn is dominant then I see a lot of belief in fate and pre-conditionings.
But, in those thåt have Jupiter dominating, I see a lot of belief in freedom and choices.
In my chart, my Jupiter's in Pisces, which along with my Sun in Leo, inclines me to believe and to act as if I have freedom.
My Saturn is in Virgo, however, and in the same sign as my Moon, and that reflects my appreciation of the conditioned aspects of life as well.
My Guru in fact has helped me in this regard, because where I could intellectually appreciate both sides of the coin of life; freedom and fate, still I couldn't understand them both together.
Then I heard my Guru say: "Freedom and fatalism both co-exist like two sides of the same coin."
Sincerely,
Mark Kincaid
--- Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@...> wrote:
> Dear a##d:
>
> I'd like to add a few thoughts to this discussion,
> especially from a Jyotish
> point of view.
>
> First I'd like to recomend the book: "Journey of
> Souls", which is a great
> book from a Psychologist, hypnotist, who interviews
> patients in the light of
> their hidden memories of when they were on that,
> 'other side'!
>
> His whole book is about exactly what life is like,
> both after or even before
> birth & death!
>
> It's the best book I've ever written in this regard.
>
> He interviews a number of people and they all
> express very similar
> experiences being on the other side, and what it was
> like and even how they
> choose to come here!
>
> I especially liked his descriptions of how people
> choose the paths, or lives
> that we are now, presently living.
>
> He describes in one part when meeting with one's
> spiritual advisor exactly
> what several future incarnations might be like, and
> how the person chooses,
> one or the other!
>
> That book really helped me in my study of
> jyotish/Astrology, too, as there's
> always these long, lengthy discussions about free
> will and fate!
>
>
> One final thought is that our chart's are very good
> indicators of what we're
> supposed to be doing in our present life, and if our
> chart's are indicative
> of our present level of evolution or consciousness,
> then life after may be
> about our future stages of evolution.
>
> I like the Vedic theory that life is a process of
> growth towards evolution
> and enlightenment!
>
> I especially like how Jyotish can interpret that
> growth in term's of the
> evolution or development of the individual planets
> and their degrees of
> strength, beneficness or Exaltation, even!
>
> Finally, I'd like to say, that what we do right now,
> may have a lot to do
> with our futures.
>
> Each step that we take to understand and transform
> ourselves, into a better
> 'us', may have a profound influence upon our future
> lives, too.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Mark Kincaid
>
>
>
>
> Astrologer
> Teacher of Meditation & Ayurved
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturesAstrology/
> 1 641 472-0000.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: a##d <myst_ak47@...>
> Reply-To: Jyotish_Remedies@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 04:44:29 -0700 (PDT)
> To: Jyotish_Remedies@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [JR] Re: what happens to the soul after
> death
>
>
>
> Hey!thank u all for the wonderful information.i
> appreciate ur help!
> --- "Rajesh M. Kumaria"
> <rajeshkumaria2000@...>
> wrote:
>
> > Well perhaps this site can help you:What Becomes
> Of
> > The Soul After
> > Death By Sri Swami Sivananda
> >
> >
> http://www.dlshq.org/download/afterdeath.htm#_VPID_6
> >
> >
> > Here's a quote from the site:
> >
> > "The soul which passes out of the body after death
> > is
> > termed `Preta', one that is bound on its onward
> > march to the Beyond.
> > The soul in its disembodied form hovers about its
> > original and
> > familiar places for ten days. It is in the form of
> a
> > ghost during
> > these ten days. The astral body takes shape from
> day
> > to day with the
> > formation of the head, eyes, and other limbs of
> the
> > Linga Sarira,
> > fed and nourished by the sesamum and water poured
> > out in libation
> > over the stones which represent the ancestors.
> >
> > The soul is fully embodied on the eleventh day. It
> > starts on its
> > journey to the judgement seat of Lord Yama, the
> God
> > of death. It
> > takes one full year from the time of death to
> reach
> > Lord Yama's
> > place. The path is beset with obstacles, distress
> > and difficulties.
> > The man who has done the most wicked deeds suffers
> > more. But the
> > difficulties can be removed and the journey be
> > rendered easy and
> > comfortable by the oblations and offerings given
> by
> > the son of the
> > deceased during the first year of the soul's
> journey
> > and by feeding
> > pure and learned Brahmins. The son should offer
> > rice-balls to the
> > father, without weeping. Death is certain for
> those
> > who are born,
> > and birth is certain for the dead. This is
> > inevitable. Therefore,
> > you should not grieve over it. The ten days' rites
> > should not be
> > neglected. The son should perform the Sapinda
> > ceremony on the
> > twelfth day and the sixteen monthly offerings. The
> > soul is sustained
> > on its onward march to the judgement seat by the
> > libations offered
> > to it by the son.
> >
> > The soul is scorched on the way by intense heat,
> but
> > the gift of an
> > umbrella by his son on the eleventh day gives
> > pleasant shade above
> > his head. The path is full of great thorns, but
> the
> > gift of shoes
> > helps him to go riding on horses. The miseries of
> > cold, heat and
> > wind are dreadful there, but he goes happily along
> > the way by the
> > power of gift of clothes. There is great heat and
> > there is no water,
> > but drinks water when thirsty, through the gift of
> a
> > water-pot by
> > his son. The son should make a gift of a cow.
> >
> > Chitragupta, the recorder of fact, the
> > Accountant-General in the
> > Kingdom of Lord Yama, informs the soul of his good
> > and bad actions
> > in his earthly life after the end of one full
> year.
> > The soul leaves
> > off its Pretatva or the garb of a traveller on
> this
> > day. He is
> > raised to the status of a Pitri or Ancestor."
> >
> > All the best( i am also reading all this yet...).
>
=== message truncated ===
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