Hello friends!

I have said it so many times on this forum, and I keep repeating it.

If you have problems sweating, you must drink HOT herbal tea while staying
in the sauna!

I drink about half a liter of hot herbal tea during 30 minutes of FIR-sauna,
and after about 10 to 15 minutes (at the latest) I begin to sweat profusely.

A nice, hot shower, just seconds before saunaing also helps.

So, how about a nice ginger-linden-mint-thyme tea?

IT WORKS, ALWAYS!

aloha from Switzerland
fox

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Hi Jim,

I don't recall craving fats before starting the FIR program.  Hmm.

But I do crave sardines since starting the FIR saunas.  I could
probably eat them 4-5x week, but I think that would be excessive so I
don't do this.
My skin does not feel oily considering all the oils I take.  I would
say that it looks more subtle and soft.

I think you would enjoy hempseed oil.  I drizzle it on cottage cheese
and toast,  tomatoe sandwichs, noodles, and just about anything.
Unlike flaxseed,  hempseed oil tastes wonderful.

Oh, I've also gotten back to taking the d.liver powder,  funny it
doesn't taste that bad anymore.

Nat

Jim:

Thanks for the prompt response.  While temp. change
makes sense, I'm not sure how much of an impact it has
in my situation because I started the FIRs back in
Feb. when it was much colder.  At that point, I had no
problem sweating.

My concern is that the lack of sweating could be an
early warning sign.  Originally, I was wondering if my
body was not sweating because it was trying to
minimize mineral loss?  But, your comment about lack
of chlorine, sodium or sulphur makes more sense.
Would a standard blood test accurately determine the
amount of minerals in my body?

I take a mineral supplement whenever I do the FIRs
(about once a week), but not on other days.  It would
make me too wired and I couldn't get to sleep whenever
I would take minerals without the sauna.

In response to your other questions, I usuually warm
up my heaters for about 15-20 min.  While that may not
be long enough, I have done that since Feb.

I'd be happy to try the electrolytes assuming it is
not too expensive.  I'd be happy to report back and
not disclose the product name.

al


--- thmicom <clements@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Al,
>
>   Thanks for your report.  I'm glad to hear that you
> are pleased
> with your progress.
>
>   One thing to take into account is the climatic
> shift in
> temperature.  During the summer I can step into the
> FIR sauna and I
> will begin sweating almost immediately.  During the
> winter it may
> take me 20 - 30 minutes to even begin to break a
> sweat.
>
>   Do you allow sufficient time for your room to warm
> up?  The
> ambient air must be warm.  FIR heat does not heat
> the air.  I think
> that a person can sit between the FIR heaters and
> feel warm but the
> body senses the cool air around it and this
> interferes with the
> sweating process.  I don't have any research to
> support this other
> than personal observation and supposition.
>
>   I know one person that was turning on the heaters
> and then getting
> between them after a few minutes, not allowing
> sufficient time to
> warm the room.  His experience was not pleasant and
> he would not
> sweat.  When I told him to allow the heaters to warm
> the room first
> for about an hour, it made a big difference.
>
>   One thing that I have found that adds to the sauna
> environment
> with the 2 FIR heaters is to get a clamp-on heat
> lamp fixture and
> clamp that onto the shower curtain rod.  The type
> infrared heat from
> heat lamps is good for surface heating of the skin.
> The article
> that I am working on that I will post to the
> "Soapbox" section of my
> website includes pictures detailing my bathroom set
> up.
>
>   You write that you drink 20 oz of water prior to
> the sauna, how
> much do you drink during the sauna?  I drink 64 oz
> of water during
> the 30 minute sauna. (Note: for those that are
> spending less time in
> the sauna, not as much water will be required.  But
> as you build up
> in length of time in the sauna, increase water
> consumption
> accordingly.)
>
>   I have noticed that sometimes when I drink water
> in the sauna
> there is an almost immediate release of more water
> via perspiration
> on my back.  If the body does not have sufficient
> water it will not
> let it go.  But since you report that you are
> pleased with your
> progress, I would think that dehydration may not be
> a factor.  But
> if you are not drinking very much water you may want
> to experiment
> with drinking more during the sauna session.
>
>   In Bernard Jensen's book "The Chemistry of Man"
> pg. 539 he writes
> "When you cannot perpire you lack chlorine, sodium,
> and sulphur."
>
>   It may be that a deficiency of one of these
> elements is a
> contributing factor.
>
>   I have been experimenting with a couple different
> electrolyte
> products and find that I've been able to increase
> frequency of sauna
> use.  I now sauna 2x/week.  Mostly for
> experimentation purposes.  As
> I type this message I have the FIR heaters and heat
> lamp warming up
> the bathroom.
>
>   Since you are using the heaters for sauna on a
> regular basis, if
> you would be willing to experiment with an
> electrolyte I'll send you
> some.  My only request is that you share your
> results but not yet
> disclose the name of the product.  After I'm through
> experimenting
> I'll share my observations in the group.
>
> All the best,
> Jim
>
>
> --- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, visnew20
> <visnew20@y...>
> wrote:
> > I've been using Jim's FIR heaters for over 9
> months
> > and am pleased with my progress.  However, during
> my
> > last 2 sauna sessions (1x/week), I noticed I have
> > almost no sweating after 30+ minutes.
> >
> > When I first started out, I would sweat profusly.
> My
> > water intake has not changed (drink about 20
> ounces
> > before I start).  Has anyone else noticed this
> > condition and is this some type of early warning
> > signal?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Al
>
>
>
>
>


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Nathalie,

   Thanks for the lit candle,  Much more pleasant than the lit
torches by a few in another group. :)

   Fat is the most concentrated fuel source for the body.
Carbohydrates and proteins each contain about 4.5 calories per gram.
Fat contains double that, 9 calories per gram.

   When the body does not use all the carbohydrates that we eat it
converts it to fat and stores it away for a rainy day.  The body is
designed to survive.  Anything that it can use for that purpose it
tends to hold onto.  A body that has experienced the slow
starvation, called dieting, tends to adapt by slowing metabolism.
It learns to store fat better when the diet is broken, so that if
the famine should return, it will be better prepared.  The best way
to lose weight is to feed the body lots of good food.

Did you have this craving for fats even before starting the regular
use of FIR sauna?  Do you notice that your skin is extra oily as a
result?

I'll have to give the hempseed oil a try.  Flaxseed and sesame seed
are both high in fat.  I will sometimes grind them and add them to
cereals.

All the best,
Jim

--- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, "natellite"
<natellite@y...> wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> I was alittle concerned when you told me that you were going to
try
> to sauna for 2 hours.   I lit a candle for you : )
>
> Thank you for the suggestions about the other.  I also eat
sardines
> on the day I sauna,  I actually crave them.  I will go through
> periods when I crave fats, for the past few months I've been
adding
> hempseed oil to my meals.  It tastes great!
>
> Nat

Jim,

I was alittle concerned when you told me that you were going to try
to sauna for 2 hours.   I lit a candle for you : )

Thank you for the suggestions about the other.  I also eat sardines
on the day I sauna,  I actually crave them.  I will go through
periods when I crave fats, for the past few months I've been adding
hempseed oil to my meals.  It tastes great!

Nat

Nathalie,

   Thanks for the update,

   I think that when you do go to 1X/week you will probably do best
to stay at the 30 minute mark, or whatever you have found to be the
right length of time in the sauna.  I don't time myself I just get a
sense when I've had enough.  I suspect by now you too have acquired
that sense.

   The endurance session I tried a couple weeks ago I was in for 1
hour 10 minutes.  I was going to try 2 hours but there was no way I
was going to make that time.  I was pretty much exhausted the
remainder of the day.  But I recovered after a nights sleep.  Be
careful and watch that you don't lose too much weight.  If my memory
is correct I think that you can stand to gain a few pounds.

   One thing I might add, during the winter months since I don't have
too much body fat, when I sauna I will sometimes get a chill
outdoors in the cold.  One thing that I've found is that if I eat
sardines on sauna day, a couple hours after the sauna, that the fats
in the fish seems to give my body the fuel to stay warm.

   I've just ordered some coconut oil to see how that works for fuel
oil.  I've heard interesting things about it but have never tried
it.  I'll share my observations on the list.

All the best,
Jim



--- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, "natellite"
<natellite@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> I did an FIR sauna today and it was wonderful.  It has been months
> since I took one and it was so nice to get back in.    I started
> sweating within 10 minutes and stayed in for 30 minutes. I could
have
> tolerated it longer but didn't want to overdo.
>
> I will do 2x 30 minutes sessions a week and then go down to 45
mins
> 1x/week.
>
> I also added the electrolyte solution to my water and will keep
you
> posted on this goes.
>
> nat

A PS to my other post.

I just thought of a way that a person can reduce the warm up time
for their sauna session: get some hot air to breath.

I imagine that there are more than a few people in other forums that
I've irritated (not intentionally) that probably think that I have
lots of hot air. :)

All the best,
Jim

--- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, "andrew" <alevin@i...>
wrote:
>
> if the air is cold the body can cool very well through the lungs
so
> you wouldn't need to sweat

Andrew,

   Thank you very much for your insight.  I had not thought of that.
That sounds like a much more logical reason for the response.

   I can put my face near the FIR heater and it will be very warm on
my face but then inhaling through my nose, the air is cool.  If the
air were hot the nasal passage would get hot and mucous membrane
would dry out, this is not what I experience.

All the best,
Jim

--- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, "andrew" <alevin@i...>
wrote:
>
> if the air is cold the body can cool very well through the lungs
> so you wouldn't need to sweat

if the air is cold the body can cool very well through the lungs so
you wouldn't need to sweat

Hi Jim,

I did an FIR sauna today and it was wonderful.  It has been months
since I took one and it was so nice to get back in.    I started
sweating within 10 minutes and stayed in for 30 minutes. I could have
tolerated it longer but didn't want to overdo.

I will do 2x 30 minutes sessions a week and then go down to 45 mins
1x/week.

I also added the electrolyte solution to my water and will keep you
posted on this goes.

nat

Hi Al,

   Thanks for your report.  I'm glad to hear that you are pleased
with your progress.

   One thing to take into account is the climatic shift in
temperature.  During the summer I can step into the FIR sauna and I
will begin sweating almost immediately.  During the winter it may
take me 20 - 30 minutes to even begin to break a sweat.

   Do you allow sufficient time for your room to warm up?  The
ambient air must be warm.  FIR heat does not heat the air.  I think
that a person can sit between the FIR heaters and feel warm but the
body senses the cool air around it and this interferes with the
sweating process.  I don't have any research to support this other
than personal observation and supposition.

   I know one person that was turning on the heaters and then getting
between them after a few minutes, not allowing sufficient time to
warm the room.  His experience was not pleasant and he would not
sweat.  When I told him to allow the heaters to warm the room first
for about an hour, it made a big difference.

   One thing that I have found that adds to the sauna environment
with the 2 FIR heaters is to get a clamp-on heat lamp fixture and
clamp that onto the shower curtain rod.  The type infrared heat from
heat lamps is good for surface heating of the skin.  The article
that I am working on that I will post to the "Soapbox" section of my
website includes pictures detailing my bathroom set up.

   You write that you drink 20 oz of water prior to the sauna, how
much do you drink during the sauna?  I drink 64 oz of water during
the 30 minute sauna. (Note: for those that are spending less time in
the sauna, not as much water will be required.  But as you build up
in length of time in the sauna, increase water consumption
accordingly.)

   I have noticed that sometimes when I drink water in the sauna
there is an almost immediate release of more water via perspiration
on my back.  If the body does not have sufficient water it will not
let it go.  But since you report that you are pleased with your
progress, I would think that dehydration may not be a factor.  But
if you are not drinking very much water you may want to experiment
with drinking more during the sauna session.

   In Bernard Jensen's book "The Chemistry of Man" pg. 539 he writes
"When you cannot perpire you lack chlorine, sodium, and sulphur."

   It may be that a deficiency of one of these elements is a
contributing factor.

   I have been experimenting with a couple different electrolyte
products and find that I've been able to increase frequency of sauna
use.  I now sauna 2x/week.  Mostly for experimentation purposes.  As
I type this message I have the FIR heaters and heat lamp warming up
the bathroom.

   Since you are using the heaters for sauna on a regular basis, if
you would be willing to experiment with an electrolyte I'll send you
some.  My only request is that you share your results but not yet
disclose the name of the product.  After I'm through experimenting
I'll share my observations in the group.

All the best,
Jim


--- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, visnew20 <visnew20@y...>
wrote:
> I've been using Jim's FIR heaters for over 9 months
> and am pleased with my progress.  However, during my
> last 2 sauna sessions (1x/week), I noticed I have
> almost no sweating after 30+ minutes.
>
> When I first started out, I would sweat profusly.  My
> water intake has not changed (drink about 20 ounces
> before I start).  Has anyone else noticed this
> condition and is this some type of early warning
> signal?
>
> Thanks
> Al

I've been using Jim's FIR heaters for over 9 months
and am pleased with my progress.  However, during my
last 2 sauna sessions (1x/week), I noticed I have
almost no sweating after 30+ minutes.

When I first started out, I would sweat profusly.  My
water intake has not changed (drink about 20 ounces
before I start).  Has anyone else noticed this
condition and is this some type of early warning
signal?

Thanks
Al



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ro water is very sucky so its an interesting opposite.

maybe the ionisation makes the minerals in the water more avaliable?

what happens to caclium when it is water that is ionised?

In another forum was posted information suggesting that Gulf War
Syndrom (GWS) may be due to chemical exposure.  See
Chemicals Sickened '91 Gulf War Veterans, Latest Study Finds
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/15/politics/15gulf.html?th

I responded with the following message and share it here for the
members of this group:

More than a few of the men that I have communicated with that have
CFS-FMS had worked in industries which exposed them to chemicals; On
farms where they were exposed to pesticides, in automotive repair
shops where they were exposed to cleaning solvents, in printshops
where they were exposed to fumes from that process... I suspect that
the course for onset of CFS-FMS for these man was the following:

1) chemical exposure caused GI tract dysbiosis

2) imbalance of intestinal bacteria in gut reduced availability of
some nutrients to the body from good bacteria and increased toxic
load from waste of bad bacteria.

3) lack of nutrients to tissue contributed to impaired metabolism
and causing pH shift in tissue to become more acidic.

4) acid pH in tissue caused blood pH to shift alkaline, alkaline
blood holds more tightly to oxygen, further impairing metabolism.

5) alkaline blood, and low nutrient levels impairs production of HCl
in the stomach so digestion becomes impaired, contributing further
to nutrient deficiencies and reducing the body's defenses to more
bacteria from the outside. All this contributes to a more alkaline
digestive system which is a more condusive environment for bad
bacteria.

6) Now the body is caught in a catch-22 condition, the tissue cannot
get what it needs because digestion is impaired. The digestive
system cannot correct it's environmant because impaired metabolism
keeps the digestive system out of balance.

Supplemnetation with probiotics to help restore the ecosystem of the
gut is ineffective because the environment is not conducive for the
probiotic to take up residency.

Trying to improve metabolism is difficult because the toxic load
from the GI tract (from bad bacteria) indirectly interferes with
metabolism.

Antibiotics can be used to kill bad bacteria (and good) in the gut
and symptoms will improve but once the antibiotics have been stopped
the bad bacteria easily moves back into the gut because there is no
defense in the stomch to kill the bacteria and the intestinal pH is
still not friendly for the good bacteria.

What is the answer. Since the gut affects the tissue and the tissue
affects the gut, it is necessary to address each area simultaneously
to see results, metabolism must be corrected at the same time that
digestion is improved.

The above scenario describes what I believe is the domino affect
that started in the gut from exposure to chemicals. Not everyone
with CFS-FMS has had chemical exposure, though many may have
unknowingly. However, there are numerous other things that can upset
the balance of the gut ecosystem and trigger this chain of
responses: chlorine in drinking water is detrimental to gut
bacteria, antibiotics are detrimental to gut bacteria, birth control
pills are detrimental to gut bacteria, prolonged stress is
detrimental to gut bacteria, just to name a few.

As it indicates in the Bible the key to health is "health in the
navel, and marrow in the bones". Think about it. The navel
(digestive system) is how the body obtains all the nutrients for its
health. The bone marrow is where new blood cells are created and
where the immune system cells are created, which protects the body
from foriegn invaders.

Any effective health program must focus on improving/maintaining
these two areas.

CFS-FMS, IMO is not the mysterious, unbeatable illness that so many
promote it to be. People do get better. But they don't get better by
taking drugs that only address symptoms. They get better by
addressing the root cause of the problem. The people that get better
know this and they actively search for that which will restore their
health.

I have put together a program that a few people have found success
following. You can find out more about it on the website at
http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/index.html

All the best,
Jim

Hi, all.

For any who are interested, my AACFS poster presentation on
glutathione in CFS has been posted in full at a couple of websites:

http://www.cfsresearch.org/cfs/research/treatment/26nf.htm

and

http://phoenix-cfs.org/GluAACFS04.htm

Rich

Hi all,

A member of this group emailed me with this question.  "What is the
purpose of drinking alkaline ionized water?"  I'll try to answer
this in this message.

There is still a lot of debate in this area.  Some information
reports alkaline ionized water ( microwater, reduced water ) as
being beneficial, for examples see the articles on the topic at
http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/Articles/mainpage.php3
Other sites attempt to expose this modality as another scam
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html
What's a person to believe.  What follows is a few observations and
reasonings that though not yet proven hopefully will contain some
logic worth pondering.

There are a lot of websites telling of the health benefits of an
alkaline body.  This is to say that the tissue should be slightly
alkaline, about 7.4 pH. The stomach should be strongly acidic, the
colon should be slightly acidic, 5.6 - 6.9 pH. see
http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/Program/datadir/FMS_Etiology/fmspres1pg103\
.php3
To say that the body should be alkaline is somewhat confusing since
it is obvious that some areas of the body need to be acidic.

The pH of these areas are indirectly related such that when the pH
of one area shifts it causes the pH in the body to shift in other
areas.  As the tissue goes shifts to be more acidic it causes the
digestive system to become more alkaline.  This imbalance is not
desireable.

Back to alkaline water.  Some sites imply that alkaline water will
cause the body to become alkaline.  But this is refuted by others
with the fact that gastric juices will acidify (at least in a
healthy digestive system) the contents in the stomach so that it
does not matter what the pH of the food or water consumed is.

One of the defenses of the body is to acidify what goes into the
stomach so that anything that could cause harm to the body such as
bacteria, is destroyed.  But when the stomach makes HCl
(hydrochloric acid), part of the gastric juices, it simultaneously
creates an alkaline buffer which will be indirectly used to
neutralize that acid when the chyme moves from the stomach into the
small intestines.  It stands to reason that if more HCl is required
to acidify an alkaline substance a greater alkaline buffer will be
created in the process.  There may be some benefit to the water
because it is alkaline but that is probably not where the true
benefit lies.  As is pointed out other substances can be used to add
alkalinity to the stomach, for example baking soda, or even antacid
tablets (calcium carbonate) but these are not good to take long
term.  Also, a person would not want to drink strong alkline ionized
water for very long.  I have my ionizer set so that the water I
drink is about 9.0 - 9.5 pH.

The website above that attempts to show ionized water as a scam
points out that pure water cannot be ionized.  This too is true.
For water to separate into alkaline and acid components, there must
be alkaline and acid substances in the water.  These substances are
common in municipal water supplies and most ground waters.  However,
there are some areas where water supplies lack sufficient minerals.
Actually this was the reason for the advent of this technology.
Water is Japan is too soft so the ionizers are used with calcium
capsules which help to produce alkaline ionized water.  (these
capsules are not required in the US since the water tends to be
harder, especially municipal waters that add limestone to the
water.)  Nowhere in nature will be found pure water, to use pure
water as an arguement to try to disprove this modality is
misleading, IMO.

One property of alkaline ionized water is supposedly that it is
clustered in smaller number of molecules and is therefore better for
hydrating the body.  This is the same selling point that penta water
uses to sell its product, a 16 oz bottle of water for about $2.00.
I have no way to prove whether this is true.  Supposedly some tests
done on the water indicate that this is true.

Whether it is due to smaller cluster size or some other property of
the water it does appear to be better hydrating.  Joyce, who
recently invested in an ionizer, previously was drinking a lot of
water daily, well over a gallon a day.  She has found that she is
now drinking less water.  The thirst drive is apparently subsiding
in her which could be interpreted that the body is better hydrated.
Drinking too much water can have a leaching effect of minerals from
the body.  I don't think that a person should drink much more than
the recommended 8 - 10 glasses.  Of course on the days that I sauna
I drink more water.

Some japanese researchers believe that the benefit of ionized water
comes from the active hydrogen that is more abundant in alkaline
ionized water.

Here I'd like to take a short detour and then I'll get back to the
water.

In Bernard Jensen's book "The Chemistry of Man" pg. 327 "Hospital
tests have found that 85% of patients over 50 lack hydrochloric
acid..."  pg. 368 "Lack of gastric hydrochloric acid is often a
basic cause of stubborn anemias.  This is probably more likely with
older patients, arthritics and in pernicious anemia.  As a result
ingested proteins are not digested into components necessary to
build hemoglobin and red blood cells." pg. 48 " A man who suffers
from indigestion and burning in the stomach usually always lacks
hydrochloric acid."

Two substances in the blood affect the rate of breathing, CO2 and
hydrogen levels.  When these are high breathing is heavy.  When
these are low, breathing is shallow.  Most likely an attempt of the
body to build up the level.  People with CFS-FMS tend to be shallow
breathers which is an indicator that CO2 and hydrogen levels may be
low.

In order to make hydrochloric acid the body must have the needed
ingredients, one of them being hydrogen.  If what Dr. Jensen wrote
is correct then anyone over the age of 50 has an 85% chance of being
lacking in HCl production.  I believe that acid reflux is the result
of gastric juices being not acidic enough, what Dr. Jensen writes
tends to support this thinking.  While acid reflux is an indicator
of low HCl production, there are probably many people with low HCl
production that may not yet be manifesting with reflux symptoms.

If a person is lacking in HCl production then they are not able to
get the full benefit from the nutrient in the foods that they eat,
even though the diet may be very nutritious.  Mary's diet was very
healthy.  She also had acid reflux for about 8 years, the later 3
years experiencing symptoms of CFS, which she was diagnosed as
having.

All the people that found success following the FIR program included
alkaline ionized water in their program.  In each case, at about 6 -
8 weeks into the program, the person started to see signs of
improvement.  This improvement continued slowly till symptoms
reversed.  In Colleen it took a full year for this process to
complete.  In Mary's case she had been taking a PPI medication for
about 7 years to control acid reflux.  And the medications were not
able to control it.  At about the 6 - 8 week mark in her program she
was off PPI medications and acid reflux was much improved. ( I've
put a couple of her posts in the "Feedback" section of the website
at http://www.xmission.com/~total/temple/Feedback/mainpage.php3 )

There have been a number of people that have used the FIR sauna and
other parts of the program but have yet to see similar results.
Granted, the FIR sauna feels good and people have reported a
reduction of pain, (except for a couple people that have
unfortunately experienced a worsening condition which I attribute to
mineral depletions) and some improvement in sleeping and some other
improvements but those that have seen the most positive results are
those that included drinking alkaline ionized water.

Joyce is a very good example.  She has been using the FIR sauna for
( I don't recall the exact amount but I'll guess, 8 - 9 months ) but
she was still experiencing symptoms of acid reflux, (an indicator of
low HCl levels which would negatively affect the ability of her body
to get nutrients from the foods she eats, such as calcium) she has
recently invested in an ionizer and now about 6 weeks into using it,
acid reflux symptoms are deminishing.

I don't know if it is the active hydrogen in the alkaline ionized
water or some other property of the water but it is apparently
contributing to balancing something such that HCl production is
improving.

Anyone that has acid reflux needs to be drinking alkaline ionized
water.  There is a 90 day full refund policy which will give the
person ample time to prove this for themself.  Anyone following the
FIR program needs to be drinking this type water to assure that they
too will see the same success of that others have.

Is this just a scam preying on the desperation of sick people, that
are not finding answers for their health problems?  I don't think
so.  The fact that this type machine is recognized by the health
ministries of Japan and Korea as being home health devices says
something.

Sorry that this has gotten so long.  If there are any questions
please feel free to ask.

All the best,
Jim

Joyce,

   It was good talking with you on the phone.  Your "bottle half
full" perspective impressed me greatly.  When you said that you were
almost out of the electrolyte, I was expecting to hear you say that
your bottle was half empty.  That positive outlook will benefit you
greatly.

   Before my sauna on saturday (30 minute session) I took 1/4 cup of
straight electrolyte solution.  I would take a drink of elect. and
then follow it with a small drink of water with electrolytes.
During the sauna I drank 1/2 gallon of alkaline ionized water with
1/4 cup electrolytes mixed in (This is more than those that are
doing shorter sauna sessions will want to drink.  But may find
beneficial to drink througout the day.).

   On sauna days, after the sauna is when I usually eat sardines (w/
onion and pickle in a sandwich or on triskets).  I find that the
oil, or something else, in the fish helps to keep my body warm.
This prevents the chills that I have sometimes felt doing saunas
during the winter.

   Joyce, I've sent another bottle of the electrolyte and have
ordered a different product to evaluate.  I'll send a sample of that
when it arrives.

   I hope that this finds others in this group doing well.  Those
that have saunas, or FIR heaters for sauna, if you've not invested
in a water ionizer I highly recommend it.  It is a major investment
but worth it.  Prices are much lower than the $1300 I paid for my
unit 6 years ago.  For those that want a panasonic ionizer I can get
it for you for much less than the $795 it is being sold on some
sites.  This is the unit that Mary and Joyce both are using.
Alkaline ionized water appears to be an important part of the
program which I should have put greater emphasis.

All the best,
Jim


--- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, "joyce kaye"
<jamkaye@m...> wrote:
> I am using 3TBS of electrolytes  in each quart of water I drink. I
am drinking 2 qts per day with elect. I do drink some water later in
the day after I have gone thru the gallon. I did 2 saunas last week.
One was on the weekend after I rifed and another one on Wed. after I
rifed. The electrolytes help my bms and also give me more energy
especially with the ionized water. On the days I saunad I initially
had more energy after that but got tired sooner probably because of
the rifing. I haven't started the enemas yet. I am just reporting in
for duty! joyce kaye I am trying to look at the lyme as something
positive because it is treatable.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am using 3TBS of electrolytes  in each quart of water I drink. I am drinking 2
qts per day with elect. I do drink some water later in the day after I have gone
thru the gallon. I did 2 saunas last week. One was on the weekend after I rifed
and another one on Wed. after I rifed. The electrolytes help my bms and also
give me more energy especially with the ionized water. On the days I saunad I
initially had more energy after that but got tired sooner probably because of
the rifing. I haven't started the enemas yet. I am just reporting in for duty!
joyce kaye I am trying to look at the lyme as something positive because it is
treatable.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all,

   Thanks for sharing the link.  Just a quick response before I run
off to work.  I'll analyze this information and offer more thoughts
later.

The one thing that I don't like right-off is that this person has
not done any experimentation of his own.  He has only taken the
information from a site promoting the use of ionized water and
applied his logic and knowledge of chemistry.  He should have
invested in a unit and done his own research.  The down-side to that
is that he no doubt would have felt like he was being taken.

In the article the author writes of "pure" water and its attributes
as if that is what we want in our own drinking water.  Pure water is
devoid of all minerals.  The thing that lead japanese researchers to
develop ionizers and the wide-spread use of ionizers in that
country, is that the water in Japan is very soft.  Soft water is a
term used to describe water that is low in minerals.

   As he points out, pure water is 7.0pH.  We tend to think of
distilled water as being "pure".  Measure the pH, you will find that
distilled water sold in stores is in the area of 5.5pH.  Why?

   Do a search on the internet and see what the correlation of heart
disease is to hard water.  There is an indirect correlation.  Areas
that have hard water have lower incidence of heart disease.  This is
something for those that are drinking distilled water and reverse
osmosis water to ponder.

   I'll address this article further when I get back from work.  Just
a couple comments on the information in this post.  Toxic metals,
like mercury, are normally eliminated via the bowel.  There is a
difference in forms of minerals and those that the body can use.  If
they are from food sources then it is most likely a form that the
body uses, at least when it was in the original food.  Minerals are
important in our drinking water, but according to some researchers
it is the active hydrogen in the ionized water that is providing the
benefit.

All the best,
Jim


--- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, "andrew" <alevin@i...>
wrote:
>
> http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html
>
> there is a mountain spring product here in tasmania that is really
> great..............
>
> its probably the minerlisation that matters............. basically
> fir is pushing out toxic metals with the good and thats the way
toxic
> metas are excreted naturally anyway
>
> so you have to replace the good that comes out//////////
>
> and thats quite a broad range and i don' see why supplements like
the
> douglas labs mag chelate are not just as an effective
source..........
>
> a lot of fibro seems to relate to mercury/silver toxicty from
amalgam
> fillings...............

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html

there is a mountain spring product here in tasmania that is really
great..............

its probably the minerlisation that matters............. basically
fir is pushing out toxic metals with the good and thats the way toxic
metas are excreted naturally anyway

so you have to replace the good that comes out//////////

and thats quite a broad range and i don' see why supplements like the
douglas labs mag chelate are not just as an effective source..........

a lot of fibro seems to relate to mercury/silver toxicty from amalgam
fillings...............

--- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, "ultrafeeltrance"
<investicator@h...> wrote:
>
> Maybe the ionized water is the missing link?
>
> thanks
> fox
> Switzerland


Hi Fox,

   I hope that this finds you doing well.

   We may soon have some evidence supporting whether the ionized
water, or maybe the electrolytes is a missing ingredient.  Although,
since each person is dealing with a unique set of deficiencies,
excesses, bacteria, and virus load, we will not yet be able to tell
with a high degree of certainty.  But it will provide more
information to build upon.

   I've recently been thinking that with the sauna, many people are
lacking electrolytes in the diet, some people being depleted from
the very start, a couple, I suspect, becoming depleted with sauna
use.

   A couple people have recently received some electrolytes to add to
their program.  One of these people has also recently included
ionized water along with the electrolytes.

   If they all see results then it may have been only the
electrolytes needed.  we can then expand the trial base using
electrolytes.  If only the person with the ionized water sees
improvement then that will provide more support that the ionized
water may also be a needed ingredient.

   I do realize the benefit of drinking the ionized water but was
hoping that it may not be required.  The ionizer is expensive for
the average person w/ CFS-FMS that has suffered financial loss along
with loss of health, that it may prevent some people from trying the
program.  But then if the program does not work completely without
it, it is counter productive to try to encourage people to follow a
course that nobody reports success following.

   When I bought my ionizer back in 1997, it cost $1,300.  The same
model can be found on the net advertised for about $1,000.  So they
are slowly coming down in price.  I have tested a korean made
ionizer which compares favorably with this model but may never have
the finances to import any so that is a moot point discussing it.

   Anyway, the machines that I do have contact with an importer and
am able to sell, I do not have much leeway in the set price.  I have
not advertised the price on the net because it is undercutting other
distributors considerably, more than $200 in some cases.  I will not
be doing this for long.

   Back in 1997 I did offer only ionized water to people with CFS-FMS
(this was before I found out about FIR sauna).  They would come to
my place and fill up jugs for their drinking water throughout the
week. Because it was difficult coming and hauling away water as you
might guess very few came back for refills.  There was one person
that stuck with it for a few weeks.  In her case she was also
getting regular blood work done.  She saw her triglyceride levels
drop from about 800 to about 200 (Not certain of the exact amount
now.  She gave me copies of her blood analysis and I've got them
somewhere, whatever the numbers, it was a big improvement.)  I don't
think that she was taking anything else that could have influenced
that result but she may have.

In the later part of 1999, I was introduced to the FIR sauna and
that is when the ladies that share their results on the website
started the program.  They too would get their drinking water from
me.  I suspect that the sauna session, feeling so good, kept them
coming back, whereas the water alone since people did not notice/see
any immediate difference they figured that there was not anything to
it.

   Colleen, what a sweet little lady though very stubburn/headstrong,
would come by once every two weeks with her station wagon and fill
up almost the entire car with gallon jugs filled with ionized water.
I think she was supplying some other people too.  She eventually
invested in her own unit and I've not seen her since.

   Fox, I'll try to search the net to find a reseller of ionizers in
your part of the world that I can direct you.  It may take a few
days.

All the best,
Jim

Jim, you said on another forum:

"...So far, everyone that has seen success in reversing symptoms of
CFS-FMS following the FIR program has also included ionized water as
part of their program.

This could have been a key reason for their
success where others, trying the program but not drinking ionized
water, have not seen similar results..."

Do you happen to know, whether one can buy that in
Europe/Switzerland, or make it oneself.

I am sure, you have explained that before, but I seem to be unable
to find it. (Brain-fog)

I have done now more than 30 FIR-saunas. Most of the time, I just
feels good for a few hours after it. However, I am still as sick as
ever.

Maybe the ionized water is the missing link?

thanks
fox
Switzerland

answers are just new questions.






--- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, "thmicom" <clements@x>
wrote:
>
>
> I wonder how effective Pedialyte is, given that it is sweetened.
> I'll have to do a little research and also get some to experiment
> with.
>
> There are a couple people now evaluating one product that I've sent
> them.  I have gotten samples of another similar product that I'm
> testing and I have just learned of another product that I want to
> evaluate too.  I'll report to the group when more results are in.
>
> I sure hope that there are not many more missing pieces to the
> puzzle to find.  I appreciate all your efforts.
>
> All the best,
> Jim
>
> --- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, "ritainthelibrary"
> <ritainthelibrary@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > The local store has only Pedialyte. It seems to be sugar based
and
> I
> > wonder if that's true with adult electrolyte products.
Suggestions
> > are welcome. Thank you.  Rita

i wouldn't touch anti virals with a barge pole

do you have any mercury analgam fillings?

a hair test?



--- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Weaver, Jr."
<wuonline@g...> wrote:
> http://www.doctordantini.com/
>
> I found this website a few minutes ago and was wondering if anyone
had
> heard of him?  According to the website they will treat people via
> telephone.  I'm actually thinking of at least finding out more
> information.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Michael Weaver, Jr.
> wuonline@g...
> WU Online - http://www.wrestlingupdateonline.com
> AIM: RAGE Michael W   |   Yahoo!: freeloading_champion   |   MSN:
> wuonline@g...

I wonder how effective Pedialyte is, given that it is sweetened.
I'll have to do a little research and also get some to experiment
with.

There are a couple people now evaluating one product that I've sent
them.  I have gotten samples of another similar product that I'm
testing and I have just learned of another product that I want to
evaluate too.  I'll report to the group when more results are in.

I sure hope that there are not many more missing pieces to the
puzzle to find.  I appreciate all your efforts.

All the best,
Jim

--- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, "ritainthelibrary"
<ritainthelibrary@y...> wrote:
>
>
> The local store has only Pedialyte. It seems to be sugar based and
I
> wonder if that's true with adult electrolyte products. Suggestions
> are welcome. Thank you.  Rita

The local store has only Pedialyte. It seems to be sugar based and I
wonder if that's true with adult electrolyte products. Suggestions
are welcome. Thank you.  Rita

http://www.doctordantini.com/

I found this website a few minutes ago and was wondering if anyone had
heard of him?  According to the website they will treat people via
telephone.  I'm actually thinking of at least finding out more
information.

--
Sincerely,
Michael Weaver, Jr.
wuonline@...
WU Online - http://www.wrestlingupdateonline.com
AIM: RAGE Michael W   |   Yahoo!: freeloading_champion   |   MSN:
wuonline@...

I'm experimenting with a couple different electrolyte products now.
I'll post more info when experimentation is over and the results are
in.

All the best,
Jim

--- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, "andrew" <alevin@i...>
wrote:
>
>
> what electrolytes did you add?
>

what electrolytes did you add?

--- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, "thmicom" <clements@x>
wrote:
>
> Hi group,
>
>   Last saturday I did another extended sauna, wanting to see how my
> body responded to the longer sauna session with the electrolytes
> added to the drinking water.
>
>   I prepared 2 gallons of water in advance.  Warmed up the bathroom
> for about 1 1/2 hours.  I was planning on doing a 2 hour session.
>
>   I only lasted for about 1 hour 10 minutes and felt myself getting
> exhausted.  During this time I drank about 5 quarts of water w/
> added electrolytes.
>
>   As I normally do after a sauna session I soaked in a hot bath
> afterwards, probably spent another 1/2 hour in the tub.
>
>   At the end of this marathon session I was pretty much wiped out,
> energy-wise.  I just veged-out in front of the TV till it was late
> enough to go to bed.  The next day I was feeling much better.
>
>   I have not experienced any emotional hyper-sensitivity that I
have
> noticed that I tend to get when I over do it in the sauna.  The
> recovery was fairly quick.  No racing heart beat which I have
> experienced on a couple occasions in the past.
>
>   I had reduced my sauna session frequency to 1X/week.  For the
next
> couple weeks I'm going to return to a 2X/week schedule to see if
the
> addition of this electrolyte will allow this schedule without
> causing problems.  I suspect that it will but I want to prove it.
>
>   I'll let you all know how it goes.  I think that this is yet one
> more missing piece to add to the FIR program.
>
> All the best,
> Jim

Joyce,

   Cheer up.  That's great news.  It may not be what you wanted to
hear but it provides you with information that you can now use to
better direct your research and efforts in regaining your health.

   As long as a person is warm with a pulse, they can get better;
Whatever the illness.  But it is critical that feelings of dispair
and hopelessness are replaced with hope of a future with restored
health.  For every illness that exists, there are people that have
overcome all odds and restored their health.  I challenge you to be
one of those that will be able to say, "I had lyme disease and I
kicked it, and you can too".

   Maybe I should start a Lyme_FIRST-Aid group so that you have a
forum to share all that you are about to learn about lyme
disease. :)

All the best,
Jim


--- In CFS-FMS_FIRST-Aid@yahoogroups.com, "joyce kaye"
<jamkaye@m...> wrote:
> I am feeling sad. My lyme test with igenex was positive IGG three
different ways. My Dr. is sending me the paperwork. joyce Also my
vit D level was high on the 25 test.