This information was rejected for posting at bayareamcslist. I'm posting it here with an OK from this group's moderator. 

Just in case it is useful to someone. Cheers.


Bart <yaahoobart@yahoo.com> wrote:

Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:03:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Bart <yaahoobart@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: [bayareamcslist] in SF eye doctor
To: bayareamcslist@yahoogroups.com

I live in SF. One day in the upper Haight, I stopped in City Optix and had a conversation about chemicals and fragrances. I smelled nothing in the place, and the two women I talked to said that they are very aware of the issue and that no one in the place wears anything smelly or toxic.

I have not done more than that. But when I'm ready for new glasses, I'll go there.

Here's a review site for the non-mcs issues.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/zkv_9-j9MyQudfOIRHvMSw#hrid:EZ09dcjyJniEIvx74Sg-JA/query:city%20optix

Bart

Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:03:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Bart <yaahoobart@...>
Subject: Fwd: [bayareamcslist] in SF eye doctor
To: bayareamcslist@yahoogroups.com

I live in SF. One day in the upper Haight, I stopped in City Optix and had a conversation about chemicals and fragrances. I smelled nothing in the place, and the two women I talked to said that they are very aware of the issue and that no one in the place wears anything smelly or toxic.

I have not done more than that. But when I'm ready for new glasses, I'll go there.

Here's a review site for the non-mcs issues.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/zkv_9-j9MyQudfOIRHvMSw#hrid:EZ09dcjyJniEIvx74Sg-JA/query:city%20optix

Bart

Hi Betty,

 

Posts that are not both local and MCS-related are screened out. For general MCS information or chat we encourage you to join one or more of the national groups.

 

Suzanne

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Betty Kreeger [mailto:bjkreeger@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 5:01 PM
To: Suzanne Olson
Subject: Bay Leaves

 

Suzanne,

 

On Tuesday I sent the following email to BayAreaMCSList for posting.  I note that you have posted several messages of "others" since I sent this to the group.  However, you have not posted my offer of Bay Leaves.  Since this message in no way violates your "new criteria" for posting to the group, I am mystified as to why you have not posted it.

 

Just so you know, I have blind copied this message to many of the people on the list, and I think we all deserve an answer as to why you are selectively screening out messages that are of the benefit to everyone in the local MCS community. 

 

The Tuesday post is as follows:

 

Hi everyone.....

 

Would anyone like some fresh Bay Leaves? 

 

There is this gigantic Bay tree across the street from me.  They never pesticide/insecticide this tree so while not technically organic, the City does not use pesticide/insecticide on it.  I use these regularly for soups, and since I just bought a dehydrator I'm going to dehydrate some too. 

 

Please email me directly if you would like to have some of these aromatic leaves and I'll bring a bunch to the meeting on Saturday.

Betty

 

Betty

 

"Be the change you wish to see in the world. "

(Mahatma Gandhi)

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: lorraine james

To: BayCanaryGrapevine@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:57 AM

Subject: [BayCanaryGrapevine] Re: Fwd: john rusmisel responses & pdf file

hm, couldn't find attachment, images didn't show up. I feel they were useful in understanding more fully what john was communicating.  Those who are interested, can email me and i can send them the file with the images and pdf file. My daughter's here for her last 3 days of visiting b4 going back to austr. ~ today being the last.  I'm leaving for the weekend tomorrow morn, so i'll only be able to send them out by tonite, then next week when i get back. 

Keep those cards and letters comin' in!  I hope this is useful for everyone.  At least we can start the conversation.  We're moving a lot of info to john at this time. He's sending some to us as well, so let's keep making use of this opportunity to make a difference for us all.  Maybe we can sit down with them after doing this preliminary dousing in information, understanding each other's point of view, and make some headway in changing things for our health.

Already we've come to understand that some of what we thought they were doing they're actually not doing.  Anyway, keep it up.  We'll 'talk' next week. 

Peace,
lorraine

--- In BayCanaryGrapevine@yahoogroups.com, isis feral <isisferal@...> wrote:
>
> Well, I'm personally relieved that they are not using more adulticides currently (wish they wouldn't use any), but I worry about the open-ended language that could open up a door in the future, under someone else's watch.
>
> I think that saying DEET is safe for babies is "pushing", certainly endorsing and encouraging, considering that DEET is what's being sold to unsuspecting parents everywhere. How many people go to these power point presentations, compared to how many people go to their website in search of trustworthy answers? ACMAD's claim that DEET is safe for babies is just plain irresponsible. Children are much more likely to get sick from DEET than from WNV, in fact they cause very similar neurological illnesses. Preventing WNV with DEET is like putting out a match with a blowtorch... Many, many, many more people die of pesticide injuries each year than of WNV.
>
> Picaridin appears to still be too new to be discussed much, but it is a synthetic chemical with many unknowns, and it certainly shouldn't be peddled to parents as proven safe. I could find no Material Safety Data Sheet for it. If you look it up at PAN, one of the sites John Rusmisel recommended, it is littered with question marks. Insufficient data does not imply safety.
>
> Neither does risk assessment, nor is it truly science to make a lot of theoretical assumptions about various made up scenarios, like the document by Peterson, et al. As someone already injured by pesticides, I'm so tired of being an acceptable risk. I'd like to see the precautionary principle applied in these situations, not risk assessment. For a bit of counter "risk assessment" of WNV, see some of the links below (including www.stopwestnilesprayingnow.org, the website John Rusmisel referred to), which show that there is no WNV epidemic, and that these extreme measures to combat mosquitoes can actually contribute to turning WNV into a much worse problem, not to mention poisoning many in the process.
>
> Maxina Ventura, from East Bay Pesticide Alert, made a statement to ACMAD and John Rusmisel, which is among many relevant links on EBPA's WNV page, here:
> http://eastbaypesticidealert.org/West%20Nile%20Virus.html
>
> For direct links to the most immediately important documents:
>
> Here's Max's 2005 statement to ACMAD, which describes her child falling ill as a result of a neighbor spraying in response to the WNV panic:
> http://eastbaypesticidealert.org/alameda_mad_statement.html
>
> Here are two articles that reveal the WNV panic to be totally out of proportion with the actual threat. There is NO EPIDEMIC of WNV. There is however an epidemic of people dying from the various effects of pesticide poisoning:
> http://www.ecotalk.org/WestNileVirusNews.htm
> http://www.ecotalk.org/WestNileVirus&Pesticides.htm
>
> Also, again, the Overkill expose, which counters all the arguments mosquito abatement programs make for the "need" to use toxics:
> http://www.meepi.org/wnv/overkillma.htm
>
> For examples of others fighting toxic WNV measures:
> http://eastbaypesticidealert.org/WestNileVirus.pdf (San Luis Obispo)
> http://www.nospray.org/ (New York)
>
> Oh, how I wish our municipalities would get off the toxic treadmill, and would stop believing the panic hype of the chemical industry...
>
> Isis
>
>
> isis feral isisferal@... wrote: Forwarded from Lorraine, with hopefully all pictures and attachments intact:
>
>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 2:50:36 PM
> Subject: RE: Dirty Decade Report
>
>
>
> Lorraine,
>
> I enjoyed our discussion on the pesticides used by our district.
>
> You might find the following websites interesting/helpful:
>
> http://www.panna.org/ Pesticide Action Network
>
> http://www.beyondpesticides.org/ They have a section on mosquito management for west nile virus that I think we follow pretty well at:
> http://www.beyondpesticides.org/mosquito/reportsandpublications/mosquito%20_strategy.pdf
>
> http://www.stopwestnilesprayingnow.org/index.html This group is against the adulticide treatments done by the Sacramento/Yolo mosquito and vector control district which is run by David Brown, a friend of mine.
> I know he would prefer to do larvicidal treatments but there comes a time during an epidemic when broader treatments are called for to save lives. What are the alternatives for mosquito control districts? If we don't do wide spread adulticiding treatments during a west nile virus outbreak and people die how does that compare with doing the treatments and possibly harming people with chemical sensitivities?
>
> We have been extremely fortunate in Alameda County to have avoided having to use truck mounted foggers in residential neighborhoods to control mosquitoes. Even though all of the counties that border Alameda County have had multiple human cases of West Nile Virus and some deaths, we have not had a single, locally acquired, human case of West Nile Virus.
>
> I always welcome questions regarding our control program from interested individuals.
>
> John R. Rusmisel
>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:01:44 PM
> Subject: RE: [BayCanaryGrapevine] Digest Number 60
>
> Lorraine,
> After reading the response, I would say that we don't "push" DEET. In fact, we have been showing numerous alternatives to DEET in our power point presentations that we have been giving throughout the county. There are several good alternatives including a new material that will soon be tested in California.
> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0726_050726_deet.html This article mentions Picaridin and lemon eucalyptus oil which are good alternatives. There is also another product called bite blocker which is being used by some people – it is soybean based. http://www.biteblocker.com/intro.html
>
> While we have never used much adulticides in the past, our website (control program) does mention the use of Scourge as the product we would use. That has been changed to Pyrenone 25-5 for the simple reason that it does have less PBO in it than other pesticides registered to control adult mosquitoes. This year we have used no (zero) adulticides. Last year we used .1 ounce of pyrenone to calibrate the equipment.
>
> For storm drain and catch basin treatments we use both solid and liquid formulations of bacteria and Altosid (chemical name methoprene s). We also on occasion use Golden bear oil but this is more and more infrequent in use and is part of an integrated pest management (IPM) program that is geared more to reducing the possibility of insecticide resistance in the mosquitoes than for daily use. During the rainy season (November – April) we don't actively target stormdrains because they are being flushed out regularly. In the dry season the drains don't flow (except in areas where people over water their lawns or leave water flowing into the gutter while washing their cars) which is why they produce so many mosquitoes. I don't know why anyone would care whether the Bti is added to a stormdrain in a liquid or solid material. We have been using more Water Soluble Packet (WSP) formulations because it is a "cleaner" method of delivering the proper dosage to a basin.
>
> I am attaching a study done a couple of years ago that looked at the risk of human exposure to pesticides used for WNV mosquito control. It is a little (ok – a lot) on the dry side but it is interesting. I doubt if people with chemical sensitivities will agree with the conclusions.
>
>
>
>
> Slide from our West Nile information presentations – I use the lemon eucalyptus oil regularly when I am in the sierras. DEET is a plasticizer that eats fly fishing lines so I don't use it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> We use Bti and Bacillus sphaericus for bacterial control. Growth hormone = Altosid = Methoprene s. Oil is GB 1111 or Goldenbear oil.
>
>
>
>
> For what its worth . . . the materials we use are often less toxic than the alternatives that others suggest we use.
>
>
>
> John R. Rusmisel
> District Manager
> Alameda County Mosquito Abatement District
> (510) 783-7744 x 17
> (510) 783-3903 FAX
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
>

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.9/1155 - Release Date: 11/27/2007 8:30 PM

hm, couldn't find attachment, images didn't show up. I feel they were useful in understanding more fully what john was communicating.  Those who are interested, can email me and i can send them the file with the images and pdf file. My daughter's here for her last 3 days of visiting b4 going back to austr. ~ today being the last.  I'm leaving for the weekend tomorrow morn, so i'll only be able to send them out by tonite, then next week when i get back. 

Keep those cards and letters comin' in!  I hope this is useful for everyone.  At least we can start the conversation.  We're moving a lot of info to john at this time. He's sending some to us as well, so let's keep making use of this opportunity to make a difference for us all.  Maybe we can sit down with them after doing this preliminary dousing in information, understanding each other's point of view, and make some headway in changing things for our health.

Already we've come to understand that some of what we thought they were doing they're actually not doing.  Anyway, keep it up.  We'll 'talk' next week. 

Peace,
lorraine

Date: 29 Nov 2007 10:11:16 -0000
From: stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com
To: stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [stopoverheadspraying] Digest Number 111

Stop Overhead Spraying

Messages In This Digest (22 Messages)

1a.

Re: Pictures of redspots on my car From: kathy koviak

1b.

I'll be making a quick radio announcement Friday From: Emily Levy

1c.

Re: I'll be making a quick radio announcement Friday From: Isabelle Jenniches

1d.

Re: I'll be making a quick radio announcement Friday From: Bonnie Keet

2a.

Re: breaking news, mystery spill From: Jenny

2b.

Re: breaking news, mystery spill - Request Copy of Lab Report From: Rami Nagel

2c.

Re: breaking news, mystery spill From: The McArthurs

2d.

Re: Please post Jessup's email and phone number. From: JERILYN BOCK

2e.

Re: Please post Jessup's email and phone number. From: Jenny

2f.

Re: Please post Jessup's email and phone number. From: Jenny

2g.

Re: breaking news, mystery spill From: Cynthia Hanson

2h.

Re: breaking news, mystery spill From: Isabelle Jenniches

2i.

Myster Spill and Health Claim Forms From: Rami Nagel

3.

Fwd: [WETHEPEOPLE_UNITED] Texas Chemtrail Samples Compared 2Samples From: Cal

4a.

Re: Gathering at the Ugly Mug Cafe, 11/28/2007, 6:00 pm From: Cynthia Hanson

5.1.

Important Changes to the parade-please read From: Bonnie Keet

5.2.

Re: Important Changes to the parade-please read From: Cal

6.

short report of meeting w/ Laird From: Isabelle Jenniches

7a.

Ugly Mug Meeting From: hanson_cynthia

7b.

Re: Ugly Mug Meeting From: Isabelle Jenniches

7c.

Re: Ugly Mug Meeting From: Isabelle Jenniches

8.

Fwd: Balloon Banner Action skill share From: Emily Levy

View All Topics | Create New Topic

Messages

1a.

Re: Pictures of redspots on my car

Posted by: "kathy koviak" hotchili9pepper@...   hotchili9pepper

Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:07 am (PST)

Our local TV news, Channel KSBW, at 5pm, last night was disappointing. Said the Moss Landing group is discontinuing checking out the seagulls, that they reviewed many things that could be hurting the birds, and discounted all the things they knew to test for the Mystery Illness, and no longer will be testing, since they do not have anything else known to test for. So, it is still a mystery illness.

I hope any other groups do not give up. I wish they would have checked the rivers for the red spots, since people have gotten red spots on their cars, so it can't all be attributed to that natural red algae in the ocean, but is an additive from the red spots from the spray, or a chemical reaction from the spray that turned red. We had a few red spots in Monterey, but most were white soapy dried spots - very hard to get off the windshield. We are still getting DRIPS of the stuff from all our trees that are hard to clean off the windshield. I've heard now that the next spraying could be as early as February, not March. About 2 months away.

Thanks to all of you in Santa Cruz that are still working on this. Keep up the great work.

----- Original Message ----
From: Isabelle Jenniches <ijenniches@yahoo.com>
To: stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 10:10:44 PM
Subject: [stopoverheadspraying] Re: Pictures of redspots on my car

More redspotz in the photo section! Thanks, Emphata. Isabelle.

__________________________________________________________
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Messages in this topic (18)

1b.

I'll be making a quick radio announcement Friday

Posted by: "Emily Levy" juiceforjustice@...   emlevv

Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:02 pm (PST)

Deborah Lindsay, who has an environmental show called Tomorrow Matters
on KRXA540 (AM) from 2-3 p.m. weekdays has offered for me to make an
announcement on the show. I'll be doing it Friday around 2:30 or so.

My plan is to announce as much of this as I can get in:
The float in Saturday's parade
Town Hall meeting in Santa Cruz 12/8
Websites for more info
The importance of making medical reports and damage/cost claims

*Is there anything else that should go on this list? I expect I'll only
have a minute or two, so if we add much more, I'll have to take some
things off.

Also, I'd *love* to give out a phone number people can call if they want
to get connected but don't have internet access. Do any of the groups
have a number they're using?

Thanks,
Emily L.
*

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1c.

Re: I'll be making a quick radio announcement Friday

Posted by: "Isabelle Jenniches" ijenniches@...   ijenniches

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:04 pm (PST)

Great, Emily! I don't have anything to add to the info that goes out.
Please note that the TOWNHALL MEETING on December 9 6-8 PM, not Dec 8!
If nobody else volunteers you could announce my phone # 465 1019.

> Town Hall meeting in Santa Cruz 12/8

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1d.

Re: I'll be making a quick radio announcement Friday

Posted by: "Bonnie Keet" BONNIE619@...   bonnie619

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:21 pm (PST)

Emily:

Can you be sure to use the updated info on the parade. That is all of
us gathering in front of Oneills with our wonderful energy and signs
and music and kids and tables of info and give aways for people.

We will be there as early at 8AM for those wanting to join for coffee
and bagels.

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2a.

Re: breaking news, mystery spill

Posted by: "Jenny" asterellax@...   asterellax

Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:47 am (PST)

I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is responsible.

I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about the white waxy stuff
I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered him samples and was
told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison sample of the
checkmate. However, he did say that there were serious concerns about
this. I could only hope that the substance on the bird feathers will
be compared to the actual substance that was sprayed.

Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the wetting agent
since it is not part of the actual checkmate formula?

I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.

--- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com, David Haisten
<dhaisten7@...> wrote:
>
> In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from the spray. Since the
lab is in Sacramento this information can not be trusted. An
independent lab needs to verify this conclusion. There are surfactants
in the spray.
>
> Donna <cfollabwoo42003@...> wrote: the substance is a
"protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps related to red tide or
> algae. sick birds have now been found at capitola beach. it probably
won't clear up till a
> change in the weather like rain and high winds occur. it is
supposedly not related to sf oil
> spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like a soap or
detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
>

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2b.

Re: breaking news, mystery spill - Request Copy of Lab Report

Posted by: "Rami Nagel" ramison2000@...   ramison2000

Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:20 am (PST)

Hi Everyone,

Just FYI,

The department of fish and game (DFG) petroleum
toxicology lab is the department that has analyzed the
bird data.

There should be absolutley no reason why some people
cannot get copies of the data. It should be public
information. And, in my conversation with DFG, they
also have a list of ingredients of checkmate, so
perhaps they are ignoring this list, but regardless,
they will never say that Checkmate caused it because
they believe it to be impossible.

I am not going to be responsible for collecting the
data, I contacted Senator Laird's office and they did
not return my call. Anyway, some of you who are savvy
should get the data from the petroleum lab, and I know
of at least one chemist we can send it to.

Rami

--- Jenny <asterellax@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is
> responsible.
>
> I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about
> the white waxy stuff
> I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered
> him samples and was
> told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison
> sample of the
> checkmate. However, he did say that there were
> serious concerns about
> this. I could only hope that the substance on the
> bird feathers will
> be compared to the actual substance that was
> sprayed.
>
> Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the
> wetting agent
> since it is not part of the actual checkmate
> formula?
>
>
> I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.
>
> --- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com, David
> Haisten
> <dhaisten7@...> wrote:
> >
> > In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from the
> spray. Since the
> lab is in Sacramento this information can not be
> trusted. An
> independent lab needs to verify this conclusion.
> There are surfactants
> in the spray.
> >
> > Donna <cfollabwoo42003@...> wrote: the
> substance is a
> "protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps
> related to red tide or
> > algae. sick birds have now been found at capitola
> beach. it probably
> won't clear up till a
> > change in the weather like rain and high winds
> occur. it is
> supposedly not related to sf oil
> > spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like a
> soap or
> detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
> >
>
>
>

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2c.

Re: breaking news, mystery spill

Posted by: "The McArthurs" thezoo@...   wisdomelements

Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:24 pm (PST)

I don't think it is just you being paranoid; my gut is telling me the same
thing.

What we need here is an independent chemist to have a look at all
this.....I am not a chemist, and my chemistry classes were 40 years ago,
but I think someone with a decent background in chemistry could easily cut
through some of this cover-up BS being dished out by the DFG.

When I listened to that TV report last night I saw how much of a non-story
propaganda piece it was. Essentially, they wanted to assure the public the
bird situation had nothing to do with the spraying. They didn't know what
it was, but they knew what it wasn't. The best they could come up with as
to what it might be is a "protein-based surfactant." Hello! Surfactants
are found in all kinds of products (especially in soaps, as sudsing
agents) and are industrially created---some from natural sources, some from
synthetic---but they are human-created, and the naturally occuring ones are
chemically modified for industrial use. As far as I know (and I am willing
to be corrected if I'm wrong), surfectants aren't created by red tide
die-off of phytoplanktons or dinoflagellates. Rather, surfactants can
contribute to red tide. So IF the red tide created the glop that all's over
the birds, it's because the surfactant level of the water had been
increased, thus creating the red tide.

As someone on this group has already pointed out, Checkmate contains
surfactants. Both Sodium Phosphate and Ammonium Phosphate are surfactants.
In fact, the use of trisodium phosphate in detergents was decreased when it
was found that it increased algal blooms (which then die off and cause red
tides!). And the Tricaprylyl methyl ammonium chloride (Aliquat 336) in
Checkmate ODF-R is classified as a "quaternary ammonium salt," and these
are also used as surfactants.

And finally, the Polyvinyl Alcohol may be playing a role here too as it has
adhesive and "film-forming" properties, and this glop was sticking to the
birds. Essentially, Suterra created a product that WOULD stick to surfaces,
so the pheromones could be dispersed over their 30 day time period. So why
all the phoney surprise that we're finding something stuck all over the
birds? It seems to me that the chemicals in the spray could easily have
caused this, especially in combination with the oils in the birds'
feathers. Sounds to me like when the spray hit the ocean and began
dissolving into its component parts, some of the interacted in new ways
with the ocean environment and created glop, which then affixed itself to
the birdies and who knows what else. So the DFG should be running tests not
just for the presence of Checkmate, but for each and every one of its
ingredients.

Informative links for those so inclined:
http://www.answers.com/topic/surfactant?cat=health
http://www.p2pays.org/ref%5C03/02960.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliquat_336
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_ammonium_salt
http://www.answers.com/topic/polyvinyl-alcohol?cat=technology

--Margie

At 09:47 AM 11/28/2007, you wrote:

>I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is responsible.
>
>I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about the white waxy stuff
>I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered him samples and was
>told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison sample of the
>checkmate. However, he did say that there were serious concerns about
>this. I could only hope that the substance on the bird feathers will
>be compared to the actual substance that was sprayed.
>
>Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the wetting agent
>since it is not part of the actual checkmate formula?
>
>I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.
>
>--- In
><mailto:stopoverheadspraying%40yahoogroups.com>stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com,
>David Haisten
><dhaisten7@...> wrote:
> >
> > In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from the spray. Since the
>lab is in Sacramento this information can not be trusted. An
>independent lab needs to verify this conclusion. There are surfactants
>in the spray.
> >
> > Donna <cfollabwoo42003@...> wrote: the substance is a
>"protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps related to red tide or
> > algae. sick birds have now been found at capitola beach. it probably
>won't clear up till a
> > change in the weather like rain and high winds occur. it is
>supposedly not related to sf oil
> > spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like a soap or
>detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
> >
>
>

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Messages in this topic (14)

2d.

Re: Please post Jessup's email and phone number.

Posted by: "JERILYN BOCK" jerilynbock@...   jerilyn_bock

Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:53 pm (PST)

Jenny,

Thank you for not giving up on the birds. Can you post Jessup's email and phone if you have it? I'd like to call him.

I also have been worried sick about the birds even before they sprayed. I also believe that the spray did this to the birds. Why else would the birds in our yards have disappeared the morning after the spray. They smelled something very toxic. But I really fear some of them just died in their nests overnight - who would know.

Just talked to Molly at Native Animal Rescue. She also thinks it's related. On 11/9, at 7:30 am, she started getting calls from people around New Brighton and Seacliff telling her that there were dead or sick birds everywhere. She has since rescued and tried to save over 300 birds. She also got calls from people who live near the beach in Capitola. They told her they were worried about the birds since those morons sprayed on the beach!

I invited Molly to the town hall meeting but she declined - too busy saving birds. She said she would pass on the info to people she knew who were very interested.

Jerilyn





Jenny <asterellax@yahoo.com> wrote:
I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is responsible.

I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about the white waxy stuff
I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered him samples and was
told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison sample of the
checkmate. However, he did say that there were serious concerns about
this. I could only hope that the substance on the bird feathers will
be compared to the actual substance that was sprayed.

Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the wetting agent
since it is not part of the actual checkmate formula?

I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.

--- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com, David Haisten
<dhaisten7@...> wrote:
>
> In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from the spray. Since the
lab is in Sacramento this information can not be trusted. An
independent lab needs to verify this conclusion. There are surfactants
in the spray.
>
> Donna <cfollabwoo42003@...> wrote: the substance is a
"protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps related to red tide or
> algae. sick birds have now been found at capitola beach. it probably
won't clear up till a
> change in the weather like rain and high winds occur. it is
supposedly not related to sf oil
> spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like a soap or
detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
>

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Messages in this topic (14)

2e.

Re: Please post Jessup's email and phone number.

Posted by: "Jenny" asterellax@...   asterellax

Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:06 pm (PST)

Marine Wildlife vet.
Ca Dept. Fish & Game

Dave Jessup
831.469.1726, Fax 831.469.1723

djessup@ospr.dfg.ca.gov

Also, the wildliffe vets, where the actual tests were performed in
Rancho Cordova are, Dr. Pamela Swift PSwift@....gov and Dr. Ben
Gonzales BGonzale@dfg.ca.gov

--- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com, JERILYN BOCK
<jerilynbock@...> wrote:
>
> Jenny,
>
> Thank you for not giving up on the birds. Can you post Jessup's
email and phone if you have it? I'd like to call him.
>
> I also have been worried sick about the birds even before they
sprayed. I also believe that the spray did this to the birds. Why
else would the birds in our yards have disappeared the morning after
the spray. They smelled something very toxic. But I really fear some
of them just died in their nests overnight - who would know.
>
> Just talked to Molly at Native Animal Rescue. She also thinks
it's related. On 11/9, at 7:30 am, she started getting calls from
people around New Brighton and Seacliff telling her that there were
dead or sick birds everywhere. She has since rescued and tried to
save over 300 birds. She also got calls from people who live near the
beach in Capitola. They told her they were worried about the birds
since those morons sprayed on the beach!
>
> I invited Molly to the town hall meeting but she declined - too
busy saving birds. She said she would pass on the info to people she
knew who were very interested.
>
> Jerilyn
>
>
>
>
>
> Jenny <asterellax@...> wrote:
> I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is responsible.
>
> I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about the white waxy stuff
> I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered him samples and was
> told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison sample of the
> checkmate. However, he did say that there were serious concerns about
> this. I could only hope that the substance on the bird feathers will
> be compared to the actual substance that was sprayed.
>
> Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the wetting agent
> since it is not part of the actual checkmate formula?
>
> I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.
>
> --- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com, David Haisten
> <dhaisten7@> wrote:
> >
> > In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from the spray. Since the
> lab is in Sacramento this information can not be trusted. An
> independent lab needs to verify this conclusion. There are surfactants
> in the spray.
> >
> > Donna <cfollabwoo42003@> wrote: the substance is a
> "protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps related to red tide or
> > algae. sick birds have now been found at capitola beach. it probably
> won't clear up till a
> > change in the weather like rain and high winds occur. it is
> supposedly not related to sf oil
> > spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like a soap or
> detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
> >
>

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Messages in this topic (14)

2f.

Re: Please post Jessup's email and phone number.

Posted by: "Jenny" asterellax@...   asterellax

Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:10 pm (PST)

lets try this again

djessup(at)ospr.dfg.ca.gov

pswift(at)dfg.ca.gov

bgonsale(at)dfg.ca.gov

--- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com, "Jenny" <asterellax@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Marine Wildlife vet.
> Ca Dept. Fish & Game
>
> Dave Jessup
> 831.469.1726, Fax 831.469.1723
>
> djessup@...
>
>
> Also, the wildliffe vets, where the actual tests were performed in
> Rancho Cordova are, Dr. Pamela Swift PSwift@... and Dr. Ben
> Gonzales BGonzale@...
>
>
>
>
> --- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com, JERILYN BOCK
> <jerilynbock@> wrote:
> >
> > Jenny,
> >
> > Thank you for not giving up on the birds. Can you post Jessup's
> email and phone if you have it? I'd like to call him.
> >
> > I also have been worried sick about the birds even before they
> sprayed. I also believe that the spray did this to the birds. Why
> else would the birds in our yards have disappeared the morning after
> the spray. They smelled something very toxic. But I really fear some
> of them just died in their nests overnight - who would know.
> >
> > Just talked to Molly at Native Animal Rescue. She also thinks
> it's related. On 11/9, at 7:30 am, she started getting calls from
> people around New Brighton and Seacliff telling her that there were
> dead or sick birds everywhere. She has since rescued and tried to
> save over 300 birds. She also got calls from people who live near the
> beach in Capitola. They told her they were worried about the birds
> since those morons sprayed on the beach!
> >
> > I invited Molly to the town hall meeting but she declined - too
> busy saving birds. She said she would pass on the info to people she
> knew who were very interested.
> >
> > Jerilyn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jenny <asterellax@> wrote:
> > I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is
responsible.
> >
> > I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about the white waxy stuff
> > I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered him samples and was
> > told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison sample of the
> > checkmate. However, he did say that there were serious concerns about
> > this. I could only hope that the substance on the bird feathers will
> > be compared to the actual substance that was sprayed.
> >
> > Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the wetting agent
> > since it is not part of the actual checkmate formula?
> >
> > I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.
> >
> > --- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com, David Haisten
> > <dhaisten7@> wrote:
> > >
> > > In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from the spray. Since the
> > lab is in Sacramento this information can not be trusted. An
> > independent lab needs to verify this conclusion. There are surfactants
> > in the spray.
> > >
> > > Donna <cfollabwoo42003@> wrote: the substance is a
> > "protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps related to red
tide or
> > > algae. sick birds have now been found at capitola beach. it probably
> > won't clear up till a
> > > change in the weather like rain and high winds occur. it is
> > supposedly not related to sf oil
> > > spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like a soap or
> > detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
> > >
> >
>

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2g.

Re: breaking news, mystery spill

Posted by: "Cynthia Hanson" hanson_cynthia@...   hanson_cynthia

Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:20 pm (PST)

Margie,
You should foreword this letter to the Station
Manager of KSBW. Great letter! All of this information
is easily found on the net. Why more people don't look
it up is frustrating! CheckMate is just that, a
CheckMate from our lovely State Representatives and
Governor. I was doing yard work yesterday and this
morning I have a rash all over my hand. I even had
gloves on but took them off just a couple of times for
a very short time. I was working in an area that my
husband and I didn't cover up during the spraying.
Gee, I wonder where I got the rash, could it be,
ChedckMate-F! Of course it is!
Anyway, good point's in your letter Margie.

--- The McArthurs <thezoo@cruzio.com> wrote:

> I don't think it is just you being paranoid; my gut
> is telling me the same
> thing.
>
> What we need here is an independent chemist to have
> a look at all
> this.....I am not a chemist, and my chemistry
> classes were 40 years ago,
> but I think someone with a decent background in
> chemistry could easily cut
> through some of this cover-up BS being dished out by
> the DFG.
>
> When I listened to that TV report last night I saw
> how much of a non-story
> propaganda piece it was. Essentially, they wanted
> to assure the public the
> bird situation had nothing to do with the spraying.
> They didn't know what
> it was, but they knew what it wasn't. The best they
> could come up with as
> to what it might be is a "protein-based surfactant."
> Hello! Surfactants
> are found in all kinds of products (especially in
> soaps, as sudsing
> agents) and are industrially created---some from
> natural sources, some from
> synthetic---but they are human-created, and the
> naturally occuring ones are
> chemically modified for industrial use. As far as I
> know (and I am willing
> to be corrected if I'm wrong), surfectants aren't
> created by red tide
> die-off of phytoplanktons or dinoflagellates.
> Rather, surfactants can
> contribute to red tide. So IF the red tide created
> the glop that all's over
> the birds, it's because the surfactant level of the
> water had been
> increased, thus creating the red tide.
>
> As someone on this group has already pointed out,
> Checkmate contains
> surfactants. Both Sodium Phosphate and Ammonium
> Phosphate are surfactants.
> In fact, the use of trisodium phosphate in
> detergents was decreased when it
> was found that it increased algal blooms (which then
> die off and cause red
> tides!). And the Tricaprylyl methyl ammonium
> chloride (Aliquat 336) in
> Checkmate ODF-R is classified as a "quaternary
> ammonium salt," and these
> are also used as surfactants.
>
> And finally, the Polyvinyl Alcohol may be playing a
> role here too as it has
> adhesive and "film-forming" properties, and this
> glop was sticking to the
> birds. Essentially, Suterra created a product that
> WOULD stick to surfaces,
> so the pheromones could be dispersed over their 30
> day time period. So why
> all the phoney surprise that we're finding something
> stuck all over the
> birds? It seems to me that the chemicals in the
> spray could easily have
> caused this, especially in combination with the oils
> in the birds'
> feathers. Sounds to me like when the spray hit the
> ocean and began
> dissolving into its component parts, some of the
> interacted in new ways
> with the ocean environment and created glop, which
> then affixed itself to
> the birdies and who knows what else. So the DFG
> should be running tests not
> just for the presence of Checkmate, but for each and
> every one of its
> ingredients.
>
> Informative links for those so inclined:
> http://www.answers.com/topic/surfactant?cat=health
> http://www.p2pays.org/ref%5C03/02960.pdf
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliquat_336
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_ammonium_salt
>
http://www.answers.com/topic/polyvinyl-alcohol?cat=technology
>
> --Margie
>
>
> At 09:47 AM 11/28/2007, you wrote:
>
> >I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is
> responsible.
> >
> >I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about
> the white waxy stuff
> >I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered
> him samples and was
> >told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison
> sample of the
> >checkmate. However, he did say that there were
> serious concerns about
> >this. I could only hope that the substance on the
> bird feathers will
> >be compared to the actual substance that was
> sprayed.
> >
> >Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the
> wetting agent
> >since it is not part of the actual checkmate
> formula?
> >
> >I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.
> >
> >--- In
>
><mailto:stopoverheadspraying%40yahoogroups.com>stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com,
>
> >David Haisten
> ><dhaisten7@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from
> the spray. Since the
> >lab is in Sacramento this information can not be
> trusted. An
> >independent lab needs to verify this conclusion.
> There are surfactants
> >in the spray.
> > >
> > > Donna <cfollabwoo42003@...> wrote: the substance
> is a
> >"protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps
> related to red tide or
> > > algae. sick birds have now been found at
> capitola beach. it probably
> >won't clear up till a
> > > change in the weather like rain and high winds
> occur. it is
> >supposedly not related to sf oil
> > > spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like
> a soap or
> >detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
> > >
> >
> >
>

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Messages in this topic (14)

2h.

Re: breaking news, mystery spill

Posted by: "Isabelle Jenniches" ijenniches@...   ijenniches

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:13 pm (PST)

Margie and all, this is such an important conversation. Re:
independent chemist. I would suggest to contact Dr. Todd Urbansky.
Take a look at the report that he submitted to Vice-Mayor Havermann to
be part of the law suit in federal court. The chemist's concerns and
conclusions about the pheromone product are posted here with link to
download the whole report (lots of complex chemistry)
http://forum.stopthespray.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=80

> I don't think it is just you being paranoid; my gut is telling me
the same
> thing.
>
> What we need here is an independent chemist to have a look at all
> this.....I am not a chemist, and my chemistry classes were 40 years
ago,
> but I think someone with a decent background in chemistry could
easily cut
> through some of this cover-up BS being dished out by the DFG.
>
> When I listened to that TV report last night I saw how much of a
non-story
> propaganda piece it was. Essentially, they wanted to assure the
public the
> bird situation had nothing to do with the spraying. They didn't know
what
> it was, but they knew what it wasn't. The best they could come up
with as
> to what it might be is a "protein-based surfactant." Hello!
Surfactants
> are found in all kinds of products (especially in soaps, as sudsing
> agents) and are industrially created---some from natural sources,
some from
> synthetic---but they are human-created, and the naturally occuring
ones are
> chemically modified for industrial use. As far as I know (and I am
willing
> to be corrected if I'm wrong), surfectants aren't created by red tide
> die-off of phytoplanktons or dinoflagellates. Rather, surfactants can
> contribute to red tide. So IF the red tide created the glop that
all's over
> the birds, it's because the surfactant level of the water had been
> increased, thus creating the red tide.
>
> As someone on this group has already pointed out, Checkmate contains
> surfactants. Both Sodium Phosphate and Ammonium Phosphate are
surfactants.
> In fact, the use of trisodium phosphate in detergents was decreased
when it
> was found that it increased algal blooms (which then die off and
cause red
> tides!). And the Tricaprylyl methyl ammonium chloride (Aliquat 336) in
> Checkmate ODF-R is classified as a "quaternary ammonium salt," and
these
> are also used as surfactants.
>
> And finally, the Polyvinyl Alcohol may be playing a role here too as
it has
> adhesive and "film-forming" properties, and this glop was sticking
to the
> birds. Essentially, Suterra created a product that WOULD stick to
surfaces,
> so the pheromones could be dispersed over their 30 day time period.
So why
> all the phoney surprise that we're finding something stuck all over the
> birds? It seems to me that the chemicals in the spray could easily
have
> caused this, especially in combination with the oils in the birds'
> feathers. Sounds to me like when the spray hit the ocean and began
> dissolving into its component parts, some of the interacted in new ways
> with the ocean environment and created glop, which then affixed
itself to
> the birdies and who knows what else. So the DFG should be running
tests not
> just for the presence of Checkmate, but for each and every one of its
> ingredients.
>
> Informative links for those so inclined:
> http://www.answers.com/topic/surfactant?cat=health
> http://www.p2pays.org/ref%5C03/02960.pdf
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliquat_336
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_ammonium_salt
> http://www.answers.com/topic/polyvinyl-alcohol?cat=technology
>
> --Margie
>
>
> At 09:47 AM 11/28/2007, you wrote:
>
> >I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is responsible.
> >
> >I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about the white waxy stuff
> >I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered him samples and was
> >told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison sample of the
> >checkmate. However, he did say that there were serious concerns about
> >this. I could only hope that the substance on the bird feathers will
> >be compared to the actual substance that was sprayed.
> >
> >Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the wetting agent
> >since it is not part of the actual checkmate formula?
> >
> >I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.
> >
> >--- In
>
><mailto:stopoverheadspraying%40yahoogroups.com>stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com,

> >David Haisten
> ><dhaisten7@> wrote:
> > >
> > > In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from the spray. Since the
> >lab is in Sacramento this information can not be trusted. An
> >independent lab needs to verify this conclusion. There are surfactants
> >in the spray.
> > >
> > > Donna <cfollabwoo42003@> wrote: the substance is a
> >"protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps related to red tide or
> > > algae. sick birds have now been found at capitola beach. it probably
> >won't clear up till a
> > > change in the weather like rain and high winds occur. it is
> >supposedly not related to sf oil
> > > spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like a soap or
> >detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
> > >
> >
> >
>

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Messages in this topic (14)

2i.

Myster Spill and Health Claim Forms

Posted by: "Rami Nagel" ramison2000@...   ramison2000

Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:15 pm (PST)

Hi Everyone,

#1 Tony Madrigal suggested if you have a health claim
form to send a copy to the Santa Cruz City Attorney

JBarisone@abc-law.com, and their fax is (831)
423-9401, (831) 423-8383 x218, 333 Church St, Santa
Cruz, CA 95060-3838.

#2. When I talked on the phone with the Department of
Fish and Game, they said they have such expert
chemistry analysis that they can many times tell which
factory made each and every chemical they find. I also
posted a letter on my website which shows that the
DFG, does not believe Checkmate is dangerous in any
way.

http://www.hopefortruth.com/LBAM_Forms/Laird%20Letter%20LBAM.pdf

I am too busy to talk with them, but anyone can take
up the cause.

AQUATIC TOXICOLOGY LAB
Department of Fish and Game
9300 Elk Grove-Florin Rd
Elk Grove, CA 95624
(916) 685-1880 Fax: (916) 714-9178
Contact: Sandi Finlayson
Brian Finlayson, Supervisor

PESTICIDES INVESTIGATION LAB
Department of Fish and Game
1701 Nimbus Road, Suite F
Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
(916) 358-2950 Fax: (916) 358-2953
Contact: Claudia Bunch
Brian Finlayson, Supervisor

PETROLEUM CHEMISTRY
LABORATORY
Department of Fish and Game
1995 Nimbus Road
Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
(916) 358-2803 Fax: (916) 358-2801
Contact: Pam Hall
Dave Crane, Supervisor

WATER POLLUTION CONTROL LAB
Department of Fish and Game
2005 Nimbus Road
Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
(916) 358-2858 Fax: (916) 985-4301
Contact: Charlene Lane
Dave Crane, Supervisor

Have fun,
Rami

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3.

Fwd: [WETHEPEOPLE_UNITED] Texas Chemtrail Samples Compared 2Samples

Posted by: "Cal" calgirlsddd85021@...   calgirlsddd85021

Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:08 am (PST)

Note: forwarded message attached.

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4a.

Re: Gathering at the Ugly Mug Cafe, 11/28/2007, 6:00 pm

Posted by: "Cynthia Hanson" hanson_cynthia@...   hanson_cynthia

Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:58 am (PST)

Wow Isabelle are you going to be there all day?? What
dedication! My husband and I planned on attending
tonight's meeting and the one on Sunday. I know what
Sunday's meeting is about but not tonight's. Is it a
planning one like Sunday's? Anyone know? We look
foreword to meeting some of you.

I've been busy the last several days but been trying
to stay on top of the mails in this list and doing
more research. It's nice to see new people speaking
out on the list. I feel like all the groups are
building strength and in our unity we will succeed in
stopping this lunacy

--- Isabelle Jenniches <ijenniches@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi Folks, I'm at the ugly Mug already. I have no
> idea who called this
> meeting, but I will let you know how it went. Nice
> to meet my
> neighbors with their pitch forks ; ) Isabelle.
>
>
>
> > Reminder from: stopoverheadspraying Yahoo! Group
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stopoverheadspraying/cal
> >
> > Gathering at the Ugly Mug Cafe
> > Wednesday November 28, 2007
> > 6:00 pm - 7:00 pm
> > Location: The Ugly Mug, 4640 Soquel Dr.
> >
> > Notes:
> >
> > Gathering at the Ugly Mug Cafe
> http://www.cafeugly.com/The%20Ugly%20Mug.html
> >
> >
> > 831.477.1341
> >
> >
> > All Rights Reserved
> > Copyright © 2007
> > Yahoo! Inc.
> > http://www.yahoo.com
> >
> > Privacy Policy:
> > http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us
> >
> > Terms of Service:
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
>

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5.1.

Important Changes to the parade-please read

Posted by: "Bonnie Keet" BONNIE619@...   bonnie619

Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:08 pm (PST)

Change of Outreach Venue at the Santa Cruz Holiday Parade
Dear Understanding Fellow Anti-aerial Spraying Activists:
We have become a force to be reckoned with. This is a good thing. But when that happens it increases our visibility and as a result our opposition has begun to find their voice.

I have had many families and organizations within and without our group very concerned about injecting politics into the holiday parade. Some more angry than others, their point - this is an event meant to focus on the holidays, not any particular political perspective. That coupled with the facts that
- the truck broke down
- we are literally too big of a group (the biggest the parade has ever seen)
- the truck broke down (I said that twice on purpose)
-and most important to getting our message out is having a stationary spot to sign people up for action and collect money for our "give aways"

This perfect storm of issues has led me to take our group out of the parade walking and into the stationary space offered in front of Oneill’s Surf Shop during the holiday parade. The Downtown Business Association has offered to give us the space with tables and permits during the set up, running and pedestrian milling about after the parade.


I know many of you will not agree with this change of venue. Please keep your flame mails to one per family and please remember I am one of you and trying to do the best I can to further our cause without furthering our opposition.

One last note, a group that can be fluid and responsive in its approach will ultimately be much more effective than one with its feet dug in.

See you in front of Oneills on Sat. Dec. 1st. We will be there at 8A and on. I truly hope you will still come.
Bonnie Keet
bonnie619@yahoo.com
431-0773

Peace,

Bonnie

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5.2.

Re: Important Changes to the parade-please read

Posted by: "Cal" calgirlsddd85021@...   calgirlsddd85021

Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:32 pm (PST)

This email is from a chemtrails group that I am involved with. Bonnie is having similar problems to what 'WE' all encounter daily, eh?

I have vet groups, chemtrail groups, Depleted Uranium Groups, 911 Groups, and individuals..................... yadayadayada....... and many of the groups are separate within the groups as far as states and countries go........

We have much to share and support even tho our HEARTS are set on different things. (That being our quest for a better world.)

Good Luck Bonnie and my prayers are with you in California.......

If you get negative input from your peers just know that u'r doing what u can to make this a better place for OUR children and g'kids no matter what........ YOU GO GIRL!!!

PEACE and AGAPE to all!!!


Bonnie Keet <BONNIE619@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
Change of Outreach Venue at the Santa Cruz Holiday Parade
Dear Understanding Fellow Anti-aerial Spraying Activists:
We have become a force to be reckoned with. This is a good thing. But when that happens it increases our visibility and as a result our opposition has begun to find their voice.

I have had many families and organizations within and without our group very concerned about injecting politics into the holiday parade. Some more angry than others, their point - this is an event meant to focus on the holidays, not any particular political perspective. That coupled with the facts that
- the truck broke down
- we are literally too big of a group (the biggest the parade has ever seen)
- the truck broke down (I said that twice on purpose)
-and most important to getting our message out is having a stationary spot to sign people up for action and collect money for our "give aways"

This perfect storm of issues has led me to take our group out of the parade walking and into the stationary space offered in front of Oneill’s Surf Shop during the holiday parade. The Downtown Business Association has offered to give us the space with tables and permits during the set up, running and pedestrian milling about after the parade.


I know many of you will not agree with this change of venue. Please keep your flame mails to one per family and please remember I am one of you and trying to do the best I can to further our cause without furthering our opposition.

One last note, a group that can be fluid and responsive in its approach will ultimately be much more effective than one with its feet dug in.

See you in front of Oneills on Sat. Dec. 1st. We will be there at 8A and on. I truly hope you will still come.
Bonnie Keet
bonnie619@yahoo.com
431-0773

Peace,

Bonnie

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

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6.

short report of meeting w/ Laird

Posted by: "Isabelle Jenniches" ijenniches@...   ijenniches

Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:59 pm (PST)

All in all the meeting w/ Assembly man John Laird went GREAT. One of
the many good things I took away from it: Cecily (verbally) rammed her
finger into his chest and asked "What can and should we do? How to
best apply ourselves?" Laird had two strategies to share:

1. Do what the CDFA should be doing, but does not.
a) Get expert studies on the long-and short term effects of the aerial
spraying campaign on human health and the environment.
b) Collect and analyze statistical data of the effects of aerial
spraying on residents.

2. Get to the government officials that have the power to make
legislative changes, and those that will convince them to do so.
Laird can propose legislative changes, but his bill proposal has to
pass Maldonado's approval. Additionally we should focus on those in
power locally and in the Bay Area that will be up for reelection next
year, as well as create the groundswell in public opinion and NGOs to
support our cause.

Much of the above is already underway. A meeting with Maldonado is in
the planning as the next recipient of the petition. The federal law
suit generated some excellent studies by experts. Some of us have been
working on a questionnaire to compile the effects on residents. Many
have been writing letters and done outreach. We all do an amazing
amount of research. Now we have to coordinate these efforts and make
good use of the wider support of the public, generated through the Dec
9 Townhall Meeting.

I'd say stay tuned for the Townhall Meeting! There will be the
opportunity to coordinate and apply ourselves.

John will probably chime in here at some point, I know Wednesday is
harvest day for him, so he is _busy_.

See you at the Ugly Mug! Isabelle.

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7a.

Ugly Mug Meeting

Posted by: "hanson_cynthia" hanson_cynthia@...   hanson_cynthia

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:23 pm (PST)

Is there a gathering tonight at the Ugly Mug?

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7b.

Re: Ugly Mug Meeting

Posted by: "Isabelle Jenniches" ijenniches@...   ijenniches

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:31 pm (PST)

Yes, 6-7 PM. I'm going, with Margaret... Bonnie will be there... Liz...
Should be good! See you there! Isabelle.

>
> Is there a gathering tonight at the Ugly Mug?
>

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7c.

Re: Ugly Mug Meeting

Posted by: "Isabelle Jenniches" ijenniches@...   ijenniches

Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:49 am (PST)

Here my attempt at summarizing this most extraordinary meeting.
Margaret, please add and correct. It was sometimes hard to get the
details with the coffee maker grinding and so many people around the
table -I'd say about 25+ all in all.
The running gag was that nobody seemed to have called this meeting,
yet we were all there, and made good use of it, too. Liz filled
everybody in about the Townhall Meeting on Dec 9, 6-8 PM, then Bonnie
announced the changes about the Holiday Parade, it's going to take
place in front of o'Neill's surf shop. Details in earlier postings or
on http://forum.stopthespray.org

Then Ed Porter showed up! Finally we got some solid info on the
ongoing law suit. SC city & county have joined forces and their
attorneys are pressing on with suing the State to achieve a verdict
before the spraying resumes. They are basically attacking the
emergency clause and rest on the CEQA, outlining that the spraying
campaign has been conducted in a "capricious and arbitrary" way. Ed
was calling on us to write as many or more affidavits as were filed in
federal court.
Ed continued by mentioning that both he and the SC city manager are
pilots, and that led to some interesting discussions about how low the
planes are allowed to fly and how precide they really can be. All
stuff that we have been wondering about in this yahoo group!
Then he related that he witnessed how the workings of a pump that had
been inactive since the spraying, suddenly created a huge amount of
foam in a creek. He has pictures and samples of this incident, and has
sent these in to the water company, together with pictures from foam
at Capitola Beach. ---->Ed Porter is asking for Checkmate samples from
anybody who has them still in the fridge!<----- I know there are a
bunch of them out there, this is your call to get rid of your samples!
Email Ed Porter eporter at ci dot santa-cruz dot ca dot us

Next: VOICES live Community TV show on Thursday Nov 29, 7:30 PM
http://63.249.88.159/cablecast/public/Show.aspx?ChannelID=3&ShowID=4531
There is no info specifically on the website, but if I got this right,
then people can be in the live audience (come early!) or volunteer to
be interviewed. Not sure who is the coordinator, so call Community TV
if you are interested.

Then we all had to move outside, as the band was setting up. The Mug
staff and customers showed incredible patience with the angry mob that
we are (not), huge thank you to them! Before we all dispersed there
were more discussions on the side walk. So good to meet some of you
from this yahoo group face to face and to reconnect with others.

A small group then continued on at Roy Upton's house, hatching plans
and getting strategic, and fleshing out the Townhall Meeting.

What an amazing evening. We'll never know who called this meeting at
the Ugly Mug, but I have a hunch it was the tooth ferry, granting our
collective wish. Isabelle.

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8.

Fwd: Balloon Banner Action skill share

Posted by: "Emily Levy" juiceforjustice@...   emlevv

Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:49 pm (PST)

The Ruckus Society does great workshops about creative tactics such as
this one. Wish I could go. Maybe someone could go and bring back the
skills for us to use in our struggle against the spraying?
Emily L.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Balloon Banner Action skill share
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:47:22 -0500 (EST)
From: The Ruckus Society <ruckus@mail.democracyinaction.org>
Reply-To: ruckus@mail.democracyinaction.org
To: juiceforjustice@baymoon.com

----------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.9/1157 - Release Date: 11/28/2007 12:29 PM

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Forwarded from Lorraine, with hopefully all pictures and attachments intact:

Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 2:50:36 PM
Subject: RE: Dirty Decade Report

Lorraine,

 

I enjoyed our discussion on the pesticides used by our district.

 

You might find the following websites interesting/helpful:

 

http://www.panna.org/ Pesticide Action Network

 

http://www.beyondpesticides.org/     They have a section on mosquito management for west nile virus that I think we follow pretty well at:

http://www.beyondpesticides.org/mosquito/reportsandpublications/mosquito%20_strategy.pdf

 

http://www.stopwestnilesprayingnow.org/index.html This group is against the adulticide treatments done by the Sacramento/Yolo mosquito and vector control district which is run by David Brown, a friend of mine.

I know he would prefer to do larvicidal treatments but there comes a time during an epidemic when broader treatments are called for to save lives. What are the alternatives for mosquito control districts? If we don’t do wide spread adulticiding treatments during a west nile virus outbreak and people die how does that compare with doing the treatments and possibly harming people with chemical sensitivities?

 

We have been extremely fortunate in Alameda County to have avoided having to use truck mounted foggers in residential neighborhoods to control mosquitoes. Even though all of the counties that border Alameda County have had multiple human cases of West Nile Virus and some deaths, we have not had a single, locally acquired, human case of West Nile Virus.

 

I always welcome questions regarding our control program from interested individuals.

 

John R. Rusmisel

Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:01:44 PM
Subject: RE: [BayCanaryGrapevine] Digest Number 60

Lorraine,

After reading the response, I would say that we don’t “push” DEET. In fact, we have been showing numerous alternatives to DEET in our power point presentations that we have been giving throughout the county. There are several good alternatives including a new material that will soon be tested in California.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0726_050726_deet.html This article mentions Picaridin and lemon eucalyptus oil which are good alternatives. There is also another product called bite blocker which is being used by some people – it is soybean based. http://www.biteblocker.com/intro.html

 

While we have never used much adulticides in the past, our website (control program) does mention the use of Scourge as the product we would use. That has been changed to Pyrenone 25-5 for the simple reason that it does have less PBO in it than other pesticides registered to control adult mosquitoes. This year we have used no (zero) adulticides. Last year we used .1 ounce of pyrenone to calibrate the equipment.

 

For storm drain and catch basin treatments we use both solid and liquid formulations of bacteria and Altosid (chemical name methoprene s).  We also on occasion use Golden bear oil but this is more and more infrequent in use and is part of an integrated pest management (IPM) program that is geared more to reducing the possibility of insecticide resistance in the mosquitoes than for daily use. During the rainy season (November – April) we don’t actively target stormdrains because they are being flushed out regularly. In the dry season the drains don’t flow (except in areas where people over water their lawns or leave water flowing into the gutter while washing their cars) which is why they produce so many mosquitoes. I don’t know why anyone would care whether the Bti is added to a stormdrain in a liquid or solid material. We have been using more Water Soluble Packet (WSP) formulations because it is a “cleaner” method of delivering the proper dosage to a basin.

 

I am attaching a study done a couple of years ago that looked at the risk of human exposure to pesticides used for WNV mosquito control. It is a little (ok – a lot) on the dry side but it is interesting. I doubt if people with chemical sensitivities will agree with the conclusions.

 

 

 

 

Slide from our West Nile information presentations – I use the lemon eucalyptus oil regularly when I am in the sierras. DEET is a plasticizer that eats fly fishing lines so I don’t use it.

 

 

 

 

 

We use Bti and Bacillus sphaericus for bacterial control. Growth hormone = Altosid  = Methoprene s. Oil is GB 1111 or Goldenbear oil.

 

 

 

For what its worth . . .  the materials we use are often less toxic than the alternatives that others suggest we use.

 

 

John R. Rusmisel

District Manager

Alameda County Mosquito Abatement District

(510) 783-7744 x 17

(510) 783-3903 FAX

 

you might find some good info on Stephen Tvedten's site; he is a former exterminator who has searched for nontoxic pesticides after bad effects in his life

search for "mosquito" here http://www.getipm.com/search.htm

among the list I found 'nontoxic mosquito control'
http://www.getipm.com/bestcont/mosquitos.htm



lorraine james <searchless1@...> wrote:

Just spoke extensively with John Rusmisel, Director of the Alameda Co.
Mosquito Abatement District.

Most important points:

He is an advocate for our needs ~ having health issues of his own.

He welcomes dialogue that promotes education, exchange of information
& policies and empowerment for the best possible solutions to the
problems we all face; be they mosquitoes, toxic chemicals, or … .

NEED A NEW BOARD MEMBER! Serve 2+ yrs. Most on board are VERY old and
have served an average of 20+ yrs. He hopes that the person who
replaces the member leaving, an attorney who is an advocate for "us"
will be as high powered and articulate.

They use no organophosphates, only larvicides solids placed into water.
Go to http://www.mosquitoes.org/ for further info about what they do,
use, etc.

Mid-late April a ballot will come out to homeowners for approval of
assessment of $3. if not passed, they will cut support staff, not
field staff, and possibly in the future have to cut their expenditure
on more expensive, less toxic materials.

I sent him the link to the report, "Dirty Decade Report", that Isis
sent me. Thanks Isis.
http://www.toxicsaction.org/Dirty_Decade_Report_.pdf
John will reply to it to continue dialogue.
I will continue to forward our notes to us here.

john's contact info:
510-783-7744
email: acmad@mosquitoes.org
A.C. Mosq. Abat. Dist.
23187 Connecticut Street
Hayward, ca. 94545

Just spoke extensively with John Rusmisel, Director of the Alameda Co.
Mosquito Abatement District.

Most important points:

He is an advocate for our needs ~ having health issues of his own.

He welcomes dialogue that promotes education, exchange of information
& policies and empowerment for the best possible solutions to the
problems we all face; be they mosquitoes, toxic chemicals, or … .

NEED A NEW BOARD MEMBER! Serve 2+ yrs. Most on board are VERY old and
have served an average of 20+ yrs. He hopes that the person who
replaces the member leaving, an attorney who is an advocate for "us"
will be as high powered and articulate.

They use no organophosphates, only larvicides solids placed into water.
Go to http://www.mosquitoes.org/ for further info about what they do,
use, etc.

Mid-late April a ballot will come out to homeowners for approval of
assessment of $3. if not passed, they will cut support staff, not
field staff, and possibly in the future have to cut their expenditure
on more expensive, less toxic materials.

I sent him the link to the report, "Dirty Decade Report", that Isis
sent me. Thanks Isis.
http://www.toxicsaction.org/Dirty_Decade_Report_.pdf
John will reply to it to continue dialogue.
I will continue to forward our notes to us here.

john's contact info:
510-783-7744
email: acmad@mosquitoes.org
A.C. Mosq. Abat. Dist.
23187 Connecticut Street
Hayward, ca. 94545

Just spoke extensively with John Rusmisel, Director of the Alameda Co.
Mosquito Abatement District.

Most important points:

He is an advocate for our needs ~ having health issues of his own.

He welcomes dialogue that promotes education, exchange of information
& policies and empowerment for the best possible solutions to the
problems we all face; be they mosquitoes, toxic chemicals, or … .

NEED A NEW BOARD MEMBER! Serve 2+ yrs. Most on board are VERY old and
have served an average of 20+ yrs.  He hopes that the person who
replaces the member leaving, an attorney who is an advocate for "us"
will be as high powered and articulate.

They use no organophosphates, only larvicides solids placed into water.
Go to http://www.mosquitoes.org/ for further info about what they do,
use, etc.

Mid-late April a ballot will come out to homeowners for approval of
assessment of $3. if not passed, they will cut support staff, not
field staff, and possibly in the future have to cut their expenditure
on more expensive, less toxic materials.

I sent him the link to the report, "Dirty Decade Report",  that Isis
sent me. Thanks Isis.
http://www.toxicsaction.org/Dirty_Decade_Report_.pdf
John will reply to it to continue dialogue.
I will continue to forward our notes to us here.

john's contact info:
510-783-7744
email: acmad@...
A.C. Mosq. Abat. Dist.
23187 Connecticut Street
Hayward, ca. 94545

I want to give an intelligent, well-informed, detailed argument for
"our" position...and don't have one, AND I KNOW one of you does.

I live in Alameda Co. Hope i'm not too late. Just unearthed a survey
from the County Mosquito Abatement Department [for "a select group of
prop. owners"] in my mail. They asked 6 questions about a proposed $3
assessment. Straight up/simple.

AND they asked for written comments "reasons why you support or oppose
this assessment and describe which issues are most important to you."

please respond ASAP.


[props to you isis!]




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I want to give an intelligent, well-informed, detailed argument for
"our" position...and don't have one, AND I KNOW one of you does.

I live in Alameda Co. Hope i'm not too late. Just unearthed a survey
from the County Mosquito Abatement Department [for "a select group of
prop. owners"] in my mail. They asked 6 questions about a proposed $3
assessment. Straight up/simple.

AND they asked for written comments "reasons why you support or oppose
this assessment and describe which issues are most important to you."

please respond ASAP.


[props to you isis!]

HI Isis,

SOrry for not responding earlier! I just checked and saw the great
email your wrote. (I wasn't doing well with all the fumes at work,
and finally have some energy)

I got an austin air purifier - healthmate plus since there is a lot of
formaldehyde in our office (wish I had read your advice earlier) and
have some problems with it for some reason. I can't figure out why,
but reading about the different kinds of carbon used is interesting.

I also got an aerox car air purifier, with the extra potassium
compounds added, and I have absolutely no problem with it.... I
called NEEDS and they said they thought it was the same potassium
compound in both, so I couldn't figure out what was the problem.

I bought two Austins (one iwth school money) and I'd like to return
the one that hasn't been used. Unfortunately, my coworked thought he
was doing a good deed and opened it and plugged it in for a bit, so
I'm sure it's no longer returnable. I would love to send it back and
get a bigger Aerox, as that one seems okay and does wonders on Diesel
exhaust when I'm driving.

Did you think it just didn't have enough carbon?? Anything else you
didn't like about it?

Thanks so much for the in depth analysis!

Laura




--- In BayCanaryGrapevine@yahoogroups.com, isis feral
wrote:
>
> Hi Laura and everyone.
>
> Austin Air was sold...?! Do you know anything more about who, what
and when this happened, or where I could get more information?
>
> I had a HORRIBLE experience with Austin Air earlier this year, and I
urge everyone to stay away from them! I got one of their machines, the
Healthmate (not Healthmate Plus, since it contains something extra
that can make sensitive folks react), and it immediately made me ill.
My lung function was reduced to about half or a third of normal.
>
> I called the company, wondering if it could be the HEPA, because
I've heard that some people react to it. I never had before, but their
version of HEPA is "medical grade" rather than the cheaper, "true"
HEPA sold by many of the smaller companies (like Holmes, which are
encased in plastic). I was told that it couldn't possibly be the HEPA,
that it must be the carbon I'm reacting to. They told me that they
automatically put anthracite carbon into the machines, and that
coconut shell carbon costs extra. The fact that there is a choice was
never mentioned anywhere on any distributor's site I've ever seen in
all the years I've researched air purifiers, or I would have ordered
the coconut carbon from the start.
>
> So they convinced me to get the other kind of carbon, the coconut
shell, the same kind I'd been using for around 8 years in a
discontinued machine I had that finally broke. The new filter also
made me ill immediately. This time my eyes and sinuses were burning,
and that lasted for days. I tried to air out the contamination with
fans pointed out my window, and that took hours to become somewhat
manageable, but it lingered for days after, as did the burning.
>
> I called the company again to find out what's up with the HEPA,
because it became clear that it couldn't be anything else. There's
only so many components in this machine. No one knew anything. There
was some suggestion that maybe the HEPA is bleached, but that was
denied later. I asked for a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS), and was
given the runaround for weeks. Finally I was told I could get the MSDS
for $100, plus $20 shipping... Most MSDS sheets I've seen are just a
few pages long, and that's for the really poisonous stuff, like
pesticides... What could possibly be in this filter that would justify
$100 worth of copying and $20 worth of shipping...?!! Needless to say,
I never got any MSDS from them, and hence, no further information
about what poisoned me. I can only say that I found their machine to
be dangerous, and their business practices dishonest!
>
> I've since done some more research into HEPA in general, which I
will be compiling, along with more details of this saga, and sending
to this list and elsewhere as soon as I get a chance. HEPA doesn't
refer to a specific material, but to a specific ability of a material
to filter particles. So HEPA filters vary a lot. There are some,
particularly marketed to hospitals (!), that contain biocides to
filter out germs, which then are released into the air. I would be
very careful trusting anything that is called medical grade HEPA
especially. And be aware with any HEPA filter that they are glued into
the frame, and the glue itself can be toxic.
>
> HEPA is all about particles, and does nothing for chemical fumes.
For chemical fumes carbon (aka charcoal) is the answer (and don't
trust the ionizer hype - those things are virtually useless, plus they
can make some pollutants more toxic). Some people also use zeolite
(Austin's 15 pounds of carbon is actually a much smaller quantity,
since they mix it with about one third zeolite), but I've not found it
as effective in an air purifier as carbon. Zeolite is great in a
container in your closet though, where it soaks up all sorts of bad
smells, and as soon as it doesn't work anymore, you have to expose it
to the sun for a day or so, and it's as good as new.
>
> I finally got an Airpura C600, which does not contain HEPA, though
does have a fabric that performs similarly. The C600 is carbon only,
26 pounds of it in a 3 inch bed, and mine is 100% coconut shell. I've
had mine running for a few weeks now, and am slowly re-adjusting to
the carbon smell, which never bothered me before, but which I was
apparently sensitized to after my horrifying exposure to the Austin
Air. A catastrophic sensitization, since I rely on carbon both in my
air purifier in my apartment, and in the mask I wear outside...
>
> I've not tried any of the Foust machines. But I would recommend
getting samples of any filtration media they may use, so you can test
it. Though sometimes a small sample may not tell you what will happen
if air is forced through a larger quantity of it, so it's not a fool
proof way to test, but will give you some idea. I think all their
large machines use HEPA, but I may be wrong. I know they sell smaller
machines with carbon only, but my sense is that they are too small,
with too little carbon to make a dent in any environment that has a
lot of chemical contamination coming through.
>
> The Aireox is also a nice little machine, carbon only, no motor
exposed, but a very small amount of carbon, and I didn't find it
useful even for my small studio apartment. Allerair machines are
comparable to Airpura, though not as well made, less carbon, and much
more expensive. All other air purifiers I've come across are encased
in plastic, and they offgass for some time after, so I've only
mentioned machines here that are encased in metal.
>
> I recommend calling the companies and asking lots of questions:
> E. L. Foust 1-800-353-6878
> Airpura 1-866-505-7872 (C600 for people with MCS)
>
> In terms of cleaners, I would caution a bit about Ecover and Planet,
the only two you mentioned, Laura, that I've tried: Some of their
products are great, others have a very strong scent to them. Ecover
dish soap has a subtle smell to it that bothers me when I'm under the
weather (I use the lemon version), and their marigold version pushes
me over the edge. Some of the more hardcore cleaning products
especially have a strong smell, and I wouldn't recommend them.
>
> Here are a couple of links to cleaning product recipes from simple,
safer components, explaining what each of them accomplishes, any part
of it you might consider printing out for your building manager:
> http://www.ecocycle.org/hazwaste/recipes.cfm
> http://es.epa.gov/techinfo/facts/safe-fs.html
>
http://www.ebmud.com/wastewater/residential_pollution_prevention/CleanItGuide2003.pdf
>
> I've never used Botanic Gold, but would love to hear what your
experience is. Sounds like it's an enzyme cleaner of some sort, though
with anything botanic I would ask how it's extracted. There is alcohol
in this product, and I wonder about whether it dissipates quickly and
if there's a chemical reaction with the enzymes that either make them
useless or smell stronger. Please do share if you have any experience
with this product.
>
> Good Luck, and Be Well
>
> Isis
>
>
> Valerie Igl wrote: Bon Ami makes a good cleanser, and
it seems to be pretty readily available.
> My housecleaner uses only vinegar and Bon Ami to clean most
anything. For
> air cleaners, I like using Holmes HEPA models. I have seen the smaller
> models in stores, but you can also order from the company 1-800-5-HOLMES
>
> VALERIE IGL, MFT
> www.FeministTherapyAssociates.com
> VALIGL@...
> 510-527-5662 x3
>
> Therapy, Consulting, Training & EMDR
> Scent-free office near El Cerrito Plaza BART
> Sliding scale / Medi-Cal
> Abuse survivors, sexuality, addiction, disability
> Sexual minorities (trans, bi, lesbian, kink, poly)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lauradorala"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:39 AM
> Subject: [BayCanaryGrapevine] advice on air purifiers/ cleaning
products for
> work?
>
>
> > Hi,
> > As school is starting agan, and I am fresh with more energy, I've
> > decided to ask if the cleaning crew can use unscented, nontoxic
> > cleaners.
> >
> > the building manager asked me for a list of what they could use, and
> > I offered her this:
> >
> > 7th generation (non lavender scented), Ecover, Planet, white vinegar,
> > something called botanic gold on foustco.com
> >
> > Does anyone have any additional ideas?
> >
> > In addition, they painted the office (and unfortunately did not
> > follow my request to use no VOC paint) so I am energized now to get
> > an air purifier that works. (And, being a teacher, I can spend most
> > of my time out of the office, and in the classroom, which is probably
> > the healthiest way to deal with it)
> >
> > I suggested the largest room Foustco.com air purifier. (the school
> > will pay for it). Has anyone used this, and do you have any feedback
> > on this model or others? (I hear the old austin air purifiers work
> > well, but that the company was sold, so I didn't get any info on the
> > newer models)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Laura
> >
> >

Greetings,

I'm a chemically sensitive person seeking a room to rent in the East
Bay or SF. I am most sensitive to perfumes/ `fragrances,' and
out-gassing from new items especially carpeting. I know that MCS
affect people differently and that I occasionally use items that
others are sensitive to. I'm willing to curtail or stop usage of such
items, if they affect your MCS adversely. I also would strongly prefer
a pet free space as well.

More about me: I'm 31, female, and a non-smoker. I'm an acupuncturist
and currently work as an herbalist in SF. In my spare time I like
reading, playing games, and bicycling. I would be interested in
housemate(s) that are interested in building community, but if that's
not an interest of yours, that's cool too.

Should you also be a chemically sensitive person seeking a new home,
please also contact me. I wouldn't be averse to renting a new space
with others.

My price range is $500-800

HI Isis,

SOrry for not responding earlier!  I just checked and saw the great
email your wrote.  (I wasn't doing well with all the fumes at work,
and finally have some energy)

I got an austin air purifier - healthmate plus since there is a lot of
formaldehyde in our office (wish I had read your advice earlier) and
have some problems with it for some reason.  I can't figure out why,
but reading about the different kinds of carbon used is interesting.

I also got an aerox car air purifier, with the extra potassium
compounds added, and I have absolutely no problem with it....  I
called NEEDS and they said they thought it was the same potassium
compound in both, so I couldn't figure out what was the problem.

I bought two Austins (one iwth school money) and I'd like to return
the one that hasn't been used.  Unfortunately, my coworked thought he
was doing a good deed and opened it and plugged it in for a bit, so
I'm sure it's no longer returnable. I would love to send it back and
get a bigger Aerox, as that one seems okay and does wonders on Diesel
exhaust when I'm driving.

Did you think it just didn't have enough carbon??  Anything else you
didn't like about it?

Thanks so much for the in depth analysis!

Laura




--- In BayCanaryGrapevine@yahoogroups.com, isis feral <isisferal@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Laura and everyone.
>
> Austin Air was sold...?! Do you know anything more about who, what
and when this happened, or where I could get more information?
>
> I had a HORRIBLE experience with Austin Air earlier this year, and I
urge everyone to stay away from them! I got one of their machines, the
Healthmate (not Healthmate Plus, since it contains something extra
that can make sensitive folks react), and it immediately made me ill.
My lung function was reduced to about half or a third of normal.
>
> I called the company, wondering if it could be the HEPA, because
I've heard that some people react to it. I never had before, but their
version of HEPA is "medical grade" rather than the cheaper, "true"
HEPA sold by many of the smaller companies (like Holmes, which are
encased in plastic). I was told that it couldn't possibly be the HEPA,
that it must be the carbon I'm reacting to. They told me that they
automatically put anthracite carbon into the machines, and that
coconut shell carbon costs extra. The fact that there is a choice was
never mentioned anywhere on any distributor's site I've ever seen in
all the years I've researched air purifiers, or I would have ordered
the coconut carbon from the start.
>
> So they convinced me to get the other kind of carbon, the coconut
shell, the same kind I'd been using for around 8 years in a
discontinued machine I had that finally broke. The new filter also
made me ill immediately. This time my eyes and sinuses were burning,
and that lasted for days. I tried to air out the contamination with
fans pointed out my window, and that took hours to become somewhat
manageable, but it lingered for days after, as did the burning.
>
> I called the company again to find out what's up with the HEPA,
because it became clear that it couldn't be anything else. There's
only so many components in this machine. No one knew anything. There
was some suggestion that maybe the HEPA is bleached, but that was
denied later. I asked for a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS), and was
given the runaround for weeks. Finally I was told I could get the MSDS
for $100, plus $20 shipping... Most MSDS sheets I've seen are just a
few pages long, and that's for the really poisonous stuff, like
pesticides... What could possibly be in this filter that would justify
$100 worth of copying and $20 worth of shipping...?!! Needless to say,
I never got any MSDS from them, and hence, no further information
about what poisoned me. I can only say that I found their machine to
be dangerous, and their business practices dishonest!
>
> I've since done some more research into HEPA in general, which I
will be compiling, along with more details of this saga, and sending
to this list and elsewhere as soon as I get a chance. HEPA doesn't
refer to a specific material, but to a specific ability of a material
to filter particles. So HEPA filters vary a lot. There are some,
particularly marketed to hospitals (!), that contain biocides to
filter out germs, which then are released into the air. I would be
very careful trusting anything that is called medical grade HEPA
especially. And be aware with any HEPA filter that they are glued into
the frame, and the glue itself can be toxic.
>
> HEPA is all about particles, and does nothing for chemical fumes.
For chemical fumes carbon (aka charcoal) is the answer (and don't
trust the ionizer hype - those things are virtually useless, plus they
can make some pollutants more toxic). Some people also use zeolite
(Austin's 15 pounds of carbon is actually a much smaller quantity,
since they mix it with about one third zeolite), but I've not found it
as effective in an air purifier as carbon. Zeolite is great in a
container in your closet though, where it soaks up all sorts of bad
smells, and as soon as it doesn't work anymore, you have to expose it
to the sun for a day or so, and it's as good as new.
>
> I finally got an Airpura C600, which does not contain HEPA, though
does have a fabric that performs similarly. The C600 is carbon only,
26 pounds of it in a 3 inch bed, and mine is 100% coconut shell. I've
had mine running for a few weeks now, and am slowly re-adjusting to
the carbon smell, which never bothered me before, but which I was
apparently sensitized to after my horrifying exposure to the Austin
Air. A catastrophic sensitization, since I rely on carbon both in my
air purifier in my apartment, and in the mask I wear outside...
>
> I've not tried any of the Foust machines. But I would recommend
getting samples of any filtration media they may use, so you can test
it. Though sometimes a small sample may not tell you what will happen
if air is forced through a larger quantity of it, so it's not a fool
proof way to test, but will give you some idea. I think all their
large machines use HEPA, but I may be wrong. I know they sell smaller
machines with carbon only, but my sense is that they are too small,
with too little carbon to make a dent in any environment that has a
lot of chemical contamination coming through.
>
> The Aireox is also a nice little machine, carbon only, no motor
exposed, but a very small amount of carbon, and I didn't find it
useful even for my small studio apartment. Allerair machines are
comparable to Airpura, though not as well made, less carbon, and much
more expensive. All other air purifiers I've come across are encased
in plastic, and they offgass for some time after, so I've only
mentioned machines here that are encased in metal.
>
> I recommend calling the companies and asking lots of questions:
> E. L. Foust 1-800-353-6878
> Airpura 1-866-505-7872 (C600 for people with MCS)
>
> In terms of cleaners, I would caution a bit about Ecover and Planet,
the only two you mentioned, Laura, that I've tried: Some of their
products are great, others have a very strong scent to them. Ecover
dish soap has a subtle smell to it that bothers me when I'm under the
weather (I use the lemon version), and their marigold version pushes
me over the edge. Some of the more hardcore cleaning products
especially have a strong smell, and I wouldn't recommend them.
>
> Here are a couple of links to cleaning product recipes from simple,
safer components, explaining what each of them accomplishes, any part
of it you might consider printing out for your building manager:
> http://www.ecocycle.org/hazwaste/recipes.cfm
> http://es.epa.gov/techinfo/facts/safe-fs.html
>
http://www.ebmud.com/wastewater/residential_pollution_prevention/CleanItGuide200\
3.pdf
>
> I've never used Botanic Gold, but would love to hear what your
experience is. Sounds like it's an enzyme cleaner of some sort, though
with anything botanic I would ask how it's extracted. There is alcohol
in this product, and I wonder about whether it dissipates  quickly and
if there's a chemical reaction with the enzymes that either make them
useless or smell stronger. Please do share if you have any experience
with this product.
>
> Good Luck, and Be Well
>
> Isis
>
>
> Valerie Igl <valigl@...> wrote: Bon Ami makes a good cleanser, and
it seems to be pretty readily available.
> My housecleaner uses only vinegar and Bon Ami to clean most
anything.  For
> air cleaners, I like using Holmes HEPA models.  I have seen the smaller
> models in stores, but you can also order from the company 1-800-5-HOLMES
>
> VALERIE IGL, MFT
> www.FeministTherapyAssociates.com
> VALIGL@...
> 510-527-5662 x3
>
> Therapy, Consulting, Training  & EMDR
> Scent-free office near El Cerrito Plaza BART
> Sliding scale / Medi-Cal
> Abuse survivors, sexuality, addiction, disability
> Sexual minorities (trans, bi, lesbian, kink, poly)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lauradorala"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:39 AM
> Subject: [BayCanaryGrapevine] advice on air purifiers/ cleaning
products for
> work?
>
>
> > Hi,
> > As school is starting agan, and I am fresh with more energy, I've
> > decided to ask if the cleaning crew can use unscented, nontoxic
> > cleaners.
> >
> > the building manager asked me for a list of what they could use, and
> > I offered her this:
> >
> > 7th generation (non lavender scented), Ecover, Planet, white vinegar,
> > something called botanic gold on foustco.com
> >
> >  Does anyone have any additional ideas?
> >
> > In addition, they painted the office (and unfortunately did not
> > follow my request to use no VOC paint) so I am energized now to get
> > an air purifier that works.  (And, being a teacher, I can spend most
> > of my time out of the office, and in the classroom, which is probably
> > the healthiest way to deal with it)
> >
> > I suggested the largest room Foustco.com air purifier.  (the school
> > will pay for it).  Has anyone used this, and do you have any feedback
> > on this model or others?  (I hear the old austin air purifiers work
> > well, but that the company was sold, so I didn't get any info on the
> > newer models)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Laura
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
>  Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
>

Bay Area Closed Beaches - Updated November 10, 2007

• Aquatic Park/Municipal Pier
• Alcatraz Island
• Angel Island Shoreline
• Baker Beach
• China Beach
• Fort Point
• Mile Rock Beach

• Fort Baker
• Kirby Cove
• Muir Beach
• Rodeo Beach
• Tennessee Valley

• Albany Beach and North Basin at Eastshore State Park
• Cesar Chavez Park in Berkeley
• Crown Memorial Beach in Alameda
• Keller Beach and Ferry Point Pier at Miller Knox Regional Shoreline
• Middle Harbor Shoreline Park in Oakland
• Point Isabel Regional Shoreline
• Shimada Park in Richmond

__________________________________________________
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www.microwavenews.com  This is home to Microwave News, an excellent monthly publication. It offers cutting edge science reports, plus a great archive.

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To: unmaid <unmaid@...>
Subject: Residents turn unruly at prospect of moth spraying - By TOM RAGAN - SENTINEL STAFF WRITER - October 4, 2007
From: Barri Boone <unmaid@...>
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 23:37:44 -0700

 Print Article | Close Window

October 4, 2007

Residents turn unruly at prospect of moth spraying

By TOM RAGAN
SENTINEL STAFF WRITER

LIVE OAK — Nearly a half-dozen sheriff's deputies and California Highway Patrol officers had to be summoned to the Simpkins Family Swim Center on Wednesday when a handful of people opposed to aerial spraying to eradicate the light brown apple moth started screaming and becoming unruly.

"All I'm asking for you is to trust us," said a frustrated state Department of Food and Agriculture Secretary A.G. Kawamura, imploring the crowd while he rose to his feet at the end of the meeting.

Initially intended for just for elected officials, the meeting was packed with nearly 100 members of the public after it was erroneously reported as public in the Sentinel. Deputies stood guard as anger in the crowd built; many in attendance did not believe that an eradication program involving an obscure pesticide could be carried out in early November without their consent.

"We should not be forced to breathe anything but air," said Katherine Herndon, a Santa Cruz resident and former school nurse for 20 years.

While a lawsuit has been filed by an environmental group in Monterey County to stop a second aerial spraying on the Monterey Peninsula set to start Tuesday, there's already talk about some Santa Cruz County parents pulling their children out of schools. The parents want to send a message to the state that "fewer students means fewer dollars," said Suzanne Dowling, a Soquel resident.

As much as Kawamura tried to quell residents' fears by saying the product, CheckMate LBAM-F, has been used in Australia for 10 years without reports of harmful consequences, the crowd countered with concern that the pesticide has never been sprayed in an urban setting.

More unsettling, they said, is that the manufacturer, the Bend, Ore.-based Suterra Inc., refuses to release the ingredients of its product on the basis that it's a trade secret.

CheckMate LBAM-F, a pesticide, was registered by the EPA in 1997 as a toxic III substance. The agency says it's generally safe when diluted and applied as prescribed by the company. In greater concentrations testing on lab animals found it caused irritation to the skin and eyes and is harmful when swallowed.

The product is not designed to kill the light brown apple moth, but to act as a pheromone and confuse the male moths to the point where they cannot find a female to reproduce with, officials said. They've added that pesticides, overall, have come a long way over time and that this one in particular is about as a naturally occurring as it gets.

"We feel, and are absolutely convinced, that the application does not pose a risk," said Lawrence E. Hawkins, a spokesman with the state Department of Food and Agriculture. "But if somebody wants to increase their margin of safety by leaving and going to another area .."

That comment brought boos from the crowd, who said they had jobs to tend to.

They then asked if any of the state officials lived in the area of treatment.

None of them do.

But the ag department said it believes aerial spraying, which is scheduled between 8 p.m. and 5 a.m. Nov. 4-9, is "an emergency" The moth, they say, could cause millions of dollars in crop damage — as is the case in Australia, its native country.

Known to feed on some 250 plants, the moth was first sighted by a UC Berkeley entomologist in the winter of 2006. He verified his find in February 2007 after sending it to a lab in Australia, according to California Department of Agriculture spokesman Steve Lyle.

Since then, the moths have reproduced at a rapid clip, causing concern among state and federal officials, who've compared the infestation to a forest fire that needs to be put out, particularly in Santa Cruz County, where more than 6,000 moths have been trapped, the majority in the Live Oak and Soquel area.

Ag department officials fear local nurseries, already feeling the effects of state and federal quarantines, aren't the only ones who will be suffering if the moth population is unattended. Crops, such as apples, grapes, even strawberries could be next in line, officials said.

"Are you saying that crops are more important than our people?" asked a visibly shaken Peggy Fleming, diagnosed with breast cancer in 2001, who fears the pesticide could affect her recovery efforts.

To date, however, crop damage has been limited to nursery growers saddled with restrictions of shipments and inspections ushered in by state and federal quarantines.

There are some who believe the moth may have been around for years undetected, a theory the state has rejected outright, saying it conducted a pest survey in 2005 and found none.

Not all residents were opposed to the spraying.

June Coha, who was initially concerned, said she had a long talk with company representatives over the telephone and she now thinks they've come up with a safe product.

"They're trying to get as close to nature as possible," she said.

Dan Harder, however, said he's having a hard time buying the concept of aerial spraying.

A director of the UCSC Arboretum, he said "There's not one study that has ever proved it to work"

Dave Lommen, a Santa Cruz resident, said he'd like to see sterile moths released into the air as a form of disrupting the mating process.

Contact Tom Ragan at tragan@....

Light Brown Apple Moth Spraying

WHERE: Scotts Valley, Santa Cruz, Capitola, Live Oak, Soquel, Aptos, Las Lomas, Aromas, Prunedale and Salinas.

WHEN: 8 p.m.to 5 a.m. Nov. 4-9.

Why: Control breeding of light brown apple moth.

COST: $2.7 million.

Information: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/ea/downloads/lbam_ea_sc.pdf

SOURCE: California Department of Agriculture

 Print Article

---

You can find this story online at:
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2007/October/04/local/stories/01local.htm

---

Copyright © Santa Cruz Sentinel. All rights reserved.

To: CS-eXchange@...
From: "Silvia K. Mueller" <csn.deutschland@...>
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:48:00 -0000
Subject: [CS-eXchange] Farmers, exterminators, community warned on use of pesticides

In der Karibik will keiner mehr Pestizide weil sie Schäden bei Mensch
und Umwelt anrichten, die nicht mehr zu übersehen oder schönzureden
sind. Selbst das Ministerium für Landwirtschaft, Bauern,
Schädlingsbekämpfer und Gemeinden stellen sich gegen die Benutzung
und beginnen wieder einfache und kostengünstige alternative
Bekämpfungsmethoden zu propagieren.

-----------

Farmers, exterminators, community warned on use of pesticides
Government Information Service
Sept. 26.2007
BVI News

The Department of Agriculture along with the Environmental Health
Unit is using this week to bring attention to the dangers of
pesticide use on farms, home gardens, around the house and insides
homes.

Deputy Chief Agricultural Officer Arona Fahie-Forbes says that
exposure to pesticide is now being linked to birth defects in
newborns, certain kinds of cancer and destruction of the environment.
These findings have helped to advance alternative forms of pests
control within countries that are part of the Organization of Eastern
Caribbean States (OECS).#

"Most pesticides are toxic and the use of these substances can be
dangerous to the health of those who ingest even the residue. Persons
are known to die suddenly from consuming certain kinds of pesticides,
and we realize that some mangrove areas, fish nurseries and other
protected areas are being destroyed because of pesticide runoff.
These substances are quite potent and should have limited or
restricted use," she said.

Mrs. Forbes noted that persons do not usually associate certain
symptoms such as dizziness and skin disorders to exposure to
pesticides. These symptoms are ignored and the exposure continues
into long-term or permanent illnesses. Mrs. Forbes advises that
persons inquire about the products used by local exterminators to rid
properties of rodents and insects well before services are rendered.

She also notes there are many banned pesticides still used in the
BVI. Some of the more popular illegal products are gramaxone,
lindane, aldicarb, parathion, aldrin, methyl bromide and chlordane
some of which are known carcinogens. The insecticide Baygon is not
banned in the BVI but it is very toxic and should be used with
extreme caution and only as directed.

Mrs. Forbes says that as part of the OECS activities to mark
Pesticide Awareness Week, she is promoting the use of integrated pest
management (IPM) which provides opportunities for safe removal of
pests from gardens and homes.

She notes that integrated pest management is a strategy used to
create a safer environment around farms, backyard gardens and homes
in addition to, discouraging the growth of pests.

"Fungi particularly the anthracnose and sooty (black) mold which grow
on many plant leaves and fruit strive in environments that are damp
and moist. A drainage system which allow for quick removal or
distribution of water and the provisions for the free circulation of
air can eliminate this problem. Plants need to be pruned regularly so
that air can pass through and ventilate the property," she said.

The Deputy Chief Agricultural Officer also encourages the use of
homemade pesticides like vinegar, Epsom salts and soapy water to
remove fungi and other pests from plants. She also advocates
uprooting and burning of plants infected with worms and insects to
prevent the spread to other plants.

The Environmental Health Division, which is concerned with all
aspects of the environment that affect the health of the community,
joins the Department of Agriculture in pesticide awareness activities.

Deputy Chief Environmental Health Officer Horace Henry says that all
chemicals pesticides "must be approved; meet the required standard
and used as instructed."

The Environmental Health Division promotes health, enforces
regulations and provides advice on policies for sustaining a healthy
environment.

http://www.bvinews.com/default.asp?
sourceid=&smenu=198&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=3505&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidat
e=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&r
ebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1924&hn=bvinews&he=.com

Hello,
I am looking for a room to rent that is
Frangrance-free
and pesticide-free. I have had MCS for 10 yrs and can
pay up to $450 a month. I hope to find a room on the
peninsula between Mtn. View and San Mateo. I will also
consider parts of the south bay.

I need to have an electric stove, no perfumes, and I
am
looking to move in October or November. Please email
me with any info.

Thank you in advance,
Kristine Kopp

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
   PEACE - The world's number one treasure



      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
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