Having problems with message search?
You probably already know about this, but I want to make sure.
Santa Cruz and Monterey have been sprayed for the light brown apple moth. The spray's active ingredient is a pheromone -- likely not injurious to humans...? But the inactive ingredients have caused all kinds of problems. Some have said SF and Berkeley are next, but I can't find confirmation of that.
So, just FYI...
stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Santa Cruz and Monterey have been sprayed for the light brown apple moth. The spray's active ingredient is a pheromone -- likely not injurious to humans...? But the inactive ingredients have caused all kinds of problems. Some have said SF and Berkeley are next, but I can't find confirmation of that.
So, just FYI...
stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Date: 29 Nov 2007 10:11:16 -0000
From: stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com
To: stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [stopoverheadspraying] Digest Number 111
Stop Overhead Spraying Messages In This Digest (22 Messages)
- 1a.
- Re: Pictures of redspots on my car From: kathy koviak
- 1b.
- I'll be making a quick radio announcement Friday From: Emily Levy
- 1c.
- Re: I'll be making a quick radio announcement Friday From: Isabelle Jenniches
- 1d.
- Re: I'll be making a quick radio announcement Friday From: Bonnie Keet
- 2a.
- Re: breaking news, mystery spill From: Jenny
- 2b.
- Re: breaking news, mystery spill - Request Copy of Lab Report From: Rami Nagel
- 2c.
- Re: breaking news, mystery spill From: The McArthurs
- 2d.
- Re: Please post Jessup's email and phone number. From: JERILYN BOCK
- 2e.
- Re: Please post Jessup's email and phone number. From: Jenny
- 2f.
- Re: Please post Jessup's email and phone number. From: Jenny
- 2g.
- Re: breaking news, mystery spill From: Cynthia Hanson
- 2h.
- Re: breaking news, mystery spill From: Isabelle Jenniches
- 2i.
- Myster Spill and Health Claim Forms From: Rami Nagel
- 4a.
- Re: Gathering at the Ugly Mug Cafe, 11/28/2007, 6:00 pm From: Cynthia Hanson
- 5.1.
- Important Changes to the parade-please read From: Bonnie Keet
- 5.2.
- Re: Important Changes to the parade-please read From: Cal
- 6.
- short report of meeting w/ Laird From: Isabelle Jenniches
- 7a.
- Ugly Mug Meeting From: hanson_cynthia
- 7b.
- Re: Ugly Mug Meeting From: Isabelle Jenniches
- 7c.
- Re: Ugly Mug Meeting From: Isabelle Jenniches
- 8.
- Fwd: Balloon Banner Action skill share From: Emily Levy
Messages
- 1a.
Re: Pictures of redspots on my car
Posted by: "kathy koviak" hotchili9pepper@... hotchili9pepper
Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:07 am (PST)
Our local TV news, Channel KSBW, at 5pm, last night was disappointing. Said the Moss Landing group is discontinuing checking out the seagulls, that they reviewed many things that could be hurting the birds, and discounted all the things they knew to test for the Mystery Illness, and no longer will be testing, since they do not have anything else known to test for. So, it is still a mystery illness.
I hope any other groups do not give up. I wish they would have checked the rivers for the red spots, since people have gotten red spots on their cars, so it can't all be attributed to that natural red algae in the ocean, but is an additive from the red spots from the spray, or a chemical reaction from the spray that turned red. We had a few red spots in Monterey, but most were white soapy dried spots - very hard to get off the windshield. We are still getting DRIPS of the stuff from all our trees that are hard to clean off the windshield. I've heard now that the next spraying could be as early as February, not March. About 2 months away.
Thanks to all of you in Santa Cruz that are still working on this. Keep up the great work.
----- Original Message ----
From: Isabelle Jenniches <ijenniches@yahoo.com >
To: stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 10:10:44 PM
Subject: [stopoverheadspraying] Re: Pictures of redspots on my car
More redspotz in the photo section! Thanks, Emphata. Isabelle.
_____________________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/ sports;_ylt= At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G 1SQtBI7ntAcJ - 1b.
I'll be making a quick radio announcement Friday
Posted by: "Emily Levy" juiceforjustice@... emlevv
Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:02 pm (PST)
Deborah Lindsay, who has an environmental show called Tomorrow Matters
on KRXA540 (AM) from 2-3 p.m. weekdays has offered for me to make an
announcement on the show. I'll be doing it Friday around 2:30 or so.
My plan is to announce as much of this as I can get in:
The float in Saturday's parade
Town Hall meeting in Santa Cruz 12/8
Websites for more info
The importance of making medical reports and damage/cost claims
*Is there anything else that should go on this list? I expect I'll only
have a minute or two, so if we add much more, I'll have to take some
things off.
Also, I'd *love* to give out a phone number people can call if they want
to get connected but don't have internet access. Do any of the groups
have a number they're using?
Thanks,
Emily L.
*
- 1c.
Re: I'll be making a quick radio announcement Friday
Posted by: "Isabelle Jenniches" ijenniches@... ijenniches
Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:04 pm (PST)
Great, Emily! I don't have anything to add to the info that goes out.
Please note that the TOWNHALL MEETING on December 9 6-8 PM, not Dec 8!
If nobody else volunteers you could announce my phone # 465 1019.
> Town Hall meeting in Santa Cruz 12/8
- 1d.
Re: I'll be making a quick radio announcement Friday
Posted by: "Bonnie Keet" BONNIE619@... bonnie619
Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:21 pm (PST)
Emily:
Can you be sure to use the updated info on the parade. That is all of
us gathering in front of Oneills with our wonderful energy and signs
and music and kids and tables of info and give aways for people.
We will be there as early at 8AM for those wanting to join for coffee
and bagels.
- 2a.
Re: breaking news, mystery spill
Posted by: "Jenny" asterellax@... asterellax
Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:47 am (PST)
I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is responsible.
I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about the white waxy stuff
I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered him samples and was
told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison sample of the
checkmate. However, he did say that there were serious concerns about
this. I could only hope that the substance on the bird feathers will
be compared to the actual substance that was sprayed.
Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the wetting agent
since it is not part of the actual checkmate formula?
I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.
--- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups. , David Haistencom
<dhaisten7@...> wrote:
>
> In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from the spray. Since the
lab is in Sacramento this information can not be trusted. An
independent lab needs to verify this conclusion. There are surfactants
in the spray.
>
> Donna <cfollabwoo42003@...> wrote: the substance is a
"protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps related to red tide or
> algae. sick birds have now been found at capitola beach. it probably
won't clear up till a
> change in the weather like rain and high winds occur. it is
supposedly not related to sf oil
> spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like a soap or
detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
>
- 2b.
Re: breaking news, mystery spill - Request Copy of Lab Report
Posted by: "Rami Nagel" ramison2000@... ramison2000
Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:20 am (PST)
Hi Everyone,
Just FYI,
The department of fish and game (DFG) petroleum
toxicology lab is the department that has analyzed the
bird data.
There should be absolutley no reason why some people
cannot get copies of the data. It should be public
information. And, in my conversation with DFG, they
also have a list of ingredients of checkmate, so
perhaps they are ignoring this list, but regardless,
they will never say that Checkmate caused it because
they believe it to be impossible.
I am not going to be responsible for collecting the
data, I contacted Senator Laird's office and they did
not return my call. Anyway, some of you who are savvy
should get the data from the petroleum lab, and I know
of at least one chemist we can send it to.
Rami
--- Jenny <asterellax@yahoo.com > wrote:
> I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is
> responsible.
>
> I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about
> the white waxy stuff
> I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered
> him samples and was
> told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison
> sample of the
> checkmate. However, he did say that there were
> serious concerns about
> this. I could only hope that the substance on the
> bird feathers will
> be compared to the actual substance that was
> sprayed.
>
> Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the
> wetting agent
> since it is not part of the actual checkmate
> formula?
>
>
> I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.
>
> --- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups. , Davidcom
> Haisten
> <dhaisten7@...> wrote:
> >
> > In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from the
> spray. Since the
> lab is in Sacramento this information can not be
> trusted. An
> independent lab needs to verify this conclusion.
> There are surfactants
> in the spray.
> >
> > Donna <cfollabwoo42003@...> wrote: the
> substance is a
> "protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps
> related to red tide or
> > algae. sick birds have now been found at capitola
> beach. it probably
> won't clear up till a
> > change in the weather like rain and high winds
> occur. it is
> supposedly not related to sf oil
> > spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like a
> soap or
> detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
> >
>
>
>
_____________________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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Make Yahoo! your homepage.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
- 2c.
Re: breaking news, mystery spill
Posted by: "The McArthurs" thezoo@... wisdomelements
Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:24 pm (PST)
I don't think it is just you being paranoid; my gut is telling me the same
thing.
What we need here is an independent chemist to have a look at all
this.....I am not a chemist, and my chemistry classes were 40 years ago,
but I think someone with a decent background in chemistry could easily cut
through some of this cover-up BS being dished out by the DFG.
When I listened to that TV report last night I saw how much of a non-story
propaganda piece it was. Essentially, they wanted to assure the public the
bird situation had nothing to do with the spraying. They didn't know what
it was, but they knew what it wasn't. The best they could come up with as
to what it might be is a "protein-based surfactant." Hello! Surfactants
are found in all kinds of products (especially in soaps, as sudsing
agents) and are industrially created---some from natural sources, some from
synthetic---but they are human-created, and the naturally occuring ones are
chemically modified for industrial use. As far as I know (and I am willing
to be corrected if I'm wrong), surfectants aren't created by red tide
die-off of phytoplanktons or dinoflagellates. Rather, surfactants can
contribute to red tide. So IF the red tide created the glop that all's over
the birds, it's because the surfactant level of the water had been
increased, thus creating the red tide.
As someone on this group has already pointed out, Checkmate contains
surfactants. Both Sodium Phosphate and Ammonium Phosphate are surfactants.
In fact, the use of trisodium phosphate in detergents was decreased when it
was found that it increased algal blooms (which then die off and cause red
tides!). And the Tricaprylyl methyl ammonium chloride (Aliquat 336) in
Checkmate ODF-R is classified as a "quaternary ammonium salt," and these
are also used as surfactants.
And finally, the Polyvinyl Alcohol may be playing a role here too as it has
adhesive and "film-forming" properties, and this glop was sticking to the
birds. Essentially, Suterra created a product that WOULD stick to surfaces,
so the pheromones could be dispersed over their 30 day time period. So why
all the phoney surprise that we're finding something stuck all over the
birds? It seems to me that the chemicals in the spray could easily have
caused this, especially in combination with the oils in the birds'
feathers. Sounds to me like when the spray hit the ocean and began
dissolving into its component parts, some of the interacted in new ways
with the ocean environment and created glop, which then affixed itself to
the birdies and who knows what else. So the DFG should be running tests not
just for the presence of Checkmate, but for each and every one of its
ingredients.
Informative links for those so inclined:
http://www.answers.com/topic/ surfactant? cat=health
http://www.p2pays.org/ref%5C03/ 02960.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Aliquat_336
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Quaternary_ ammonium_ salt
http://www.answers.com/topic/ polyvinyl- alcohol?cat= technology
--Margie
At 09:47 AM 11/28/2007, you wrote:
>I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is responsible.
>
>I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about the white waxy stuff
>I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered him samples and was
>told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison sample of the
>checkmate. However, he did say that there were serious concerns about
>this. I could only hope that the substance on the bird feathers will
>be compared to the actual substance that was sprayed.
>
>Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the wetting agent
>since it is not part of the actual checkmate formula?
>
>I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.
>
>--- In
><mailto:stopoverheadspraying% 40yahoogroups. com>stopoverheadsprayin g@yahoogroups. ,com
>David Haisten
><dhaisten7@...> wrote:
> >
> > In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from the spray. Since the
>lab is in Sacramento this information can not be trusted. An
>independent lab needs to verify this conclusion. There are surfactants
>in the spray.
> >
> > Donna <cfollabwoo42003@...> wrote: the substance is a
>"protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps related to red tide or
> > algae. sick birds have now been found at capitola beach. it probably
>won't clear up till a
> > change in the weather like rain and high winds occur. it is
>supposedly not related to sf oil
> > spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like a soap or
>detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
> >
>
>
- 2d.
Re: Please post Jessup's email and phone number.
Posted by: "JERILYN BOCK" jerilynbock@... jerilyn_bock
Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:53 pm (PST)
Jenny,
Thank you for not giving up on the birds. Can you post Jessup's email and phone if you have it? I'd like to call him.
I also have been worried sick about the birds even before they sprayed. I also believe that the spray did this to the birds. Why else would the birds in our yards have disappeared the morning after the spray. They smelled something very toxic. But I really fear some of them just died in their nests overnight - who would know.
Just talked to Molly at Native Animal Rescue. She also thinks it's related. On 11/9, at 7:30 am, she started getting calls from people around New Brighton and Seacliff telling her that there were dead or sick birds everywhere. She has since rescued and tried to save over 300 birds. She also got calls from people who live near the beach in Capitola. They told her they were worried about the birds since those morons sprayed on the beach!
I invited Molly to the town hall meeting but she declined - too busy saving birds. She said she would pass on the info to people she knew who were very interested.
Jerilyn
Jenny <asterellax@yahoo.com > wrote:
I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is responsible.
I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about the white waxy stuff
I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered him samples and was
told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison sample of the
checkmate. However, he did say that there were serious concerns about
this. I could only hope that the substance on the bird feathers will
be compared to the actual substance that was sprayed.
Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the wetting agent
since it is not part of the actual checkmate formula?
I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.
--- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups. , David Haistencom
<dhaisten7@...> wrote:
>
> In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from the spray. Since the
lab is in Sacramento this information can not be trusted. An
independent lab needs to verify this conclusion. There are surfactants
in the spray.
>
> Donna <cfollabwoo42003@...> wrote: the substance is a
"protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps related to red tide or
> algae. sick birds have now been found at capitola beach. it probably
won't clear up till a
> change in the weather like rain and high winds occur. it is
supposedly not related to sf oil
> spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like a soap or
detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
>
- 2e.
Re: Please post Jessup's email and phone number.
Posted by: "Jenny" asterellax@... asterellax
Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:06 pm (PST)
Marine Wildlife vet.
Ca Dept. Fish & Game
Dave Jessup
831.469.1726, Fax 831.469.1723
djessup@ospr.dfg.ca.gov
Also, the wildliffe vets, where the actual tests were performed in
Rancho Cordova are, Dr. Pamela Swift PSwift@....gov and Dr. Ben
Gonzales BGonzale@dfg.ca.gov
--- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups. , JERILYN BOCKcom
<jerilynbock@...> wrote:
>
> Jenny,
>
> Thank you for not giving up on the birds. Can you post Jessup's
email and phone if you have it? I'd like to call him.
>
> I also have been worried sick about the birds even before they
sprayed. I also believe that the spray did this to the birds. Why
else would the birds in our yards have disappeared the morning after
the spray. They smelled something very toxic. But I really fear some
of them just died in their nests overnight - who would know.
>
> Just talked to Molly at Native Animal Rescue. She also thinks
it's related. On 11/9, at 7:30 am, she started getting calls from
people around New Brighton and Seacliff telling her that there were
dead or sick birds everywhere. She has since rescued and tried to
save over 300 birds. She also got calls from people who live near the
beach in Capitola. They told her they were worried about the birds
since those morons sprayed on the beach!
>
> I invited Molly to the town hall meeting but she declined - too
busy saving birds. She said she would pass on the info to people she
knew who were very interested.
>
> Jerilyn
>
>
>
>
>
> Jenny <asterellax@...> wrote:
> I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is responsible.
>
> I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about the white waxy stuff
> I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered him samples and was
> told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison sample of the
> checkmate. However, he did say that there were serious concerns about
> this. I could only hope that the substance on the bird feathers will
> be compared to the actual substance that was sprayed.
>
> Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the wetting agent
> since it is not part of the actual checkmate formula?
>
> I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.
>
> --- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups. , David Haistencom
> <dhaisten7@> wrote:
> >
> > In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from the spray. Since the
> lab is in Sacramento this information can not be trusted. An
> independent lab needs to verify this conclusion. There are surfactants
> in the spray.
> >
> > Donna <cfollabwoo42003@> wrote: the substance is a
> "protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps related to red tide or
> > algae. sick birds have now been found at capitola beach. it probably
> won't clear up till a
> > change in the weather like rain and high winds occur. it is
> supposedly not related to sf oil
> > spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like a soap or
> detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
> >
>
- 2f.
Re: Please post Jessup's email and phone number.
Posted by: "Jenny" asterellax@... asterellax
Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:10 pm (PST)
lets try this again
djessup(at)ospr.dfg.ca.gov
pswift(at)dfg.ca.gov
bgonsale(at)dfg.ca.gov
--- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups. , "Jenny" <asterellax@com ...>
wrote:
>
>
> Marine Wildlife vet.
> Ca Dept. Fish & Game
>
> Dave Jessup
> 831.469.1726, Fax 831.469.1723
>
> djessup@...
>
>
> Also, the wildliffe vets, where the actual tests were performed in
> Rancho Cordova are, Dr. Pamela Swift PSwift@... and Dr. Ben
> Gonzales BGonzale@...
>
>
>
>
> --- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups. , JERILYN BOCKcom
> <jerilynbock@> wrote:
> >
> > Jenny,
> >
> > Thank you for not giving up on the birds. Can you post Jessup's
> email and phone if you have it? I'd like to call him.
> >
> > I also have been worried sick about the birds even before they
> sprayed. I also believe that the spray did this to the birds. Why
> else would the birds in our yards have disappeared the morning after
> the spray. They smelled something very toxic. But I really fear some
> of them just died in their nests overnight - who would know.
> >
> > Just talked to Molly at Native Animal Rescue. She also thinks
> it's related. On 11/9, at 7:30 am, she started getting calls from
> people around New Brighton and Seacliff telling her that there were
> dead or sick birds everywhere. She has since rescued and tried to
> save over 300 birds. She also got calls from people who live near the
> beach in Capitola. They told her they were worried about the birds
> since those morons sprayed on the beach!
> >
> > I invited Molly to the town hall meeting but she declined - too
> busy saving birds. She said she would pass on the info to people she
> knew who were very interested.
> >
> > Jerilyn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jenny <asterellax@> wrote:
> > I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is
responsible.
> >
> > I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about the white waxy stuff
> > I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered him samples and was
> > told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison sample of the
> > checkmate. However, he did say that there were serious concerns about
> > this. I could only hope that the substance on the bird feathers will
> > be compared to the actual substance that was sprayed.
> >
> > Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the wetting agent
> > since it is not part of the actual checkmate formula?
> >
> > I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.
> >
> > --- In stopoverheadspraying@yahoogroups. , David Haistencom
> > <dhaisten7@> wrote:
> > >
> > > In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from the spray. Since the
> > lab is in Sacramento this information can not be trusted. An
> > independent lab needs to verify this conclusion. There are surfactants
> > in the spray.
> > >
> > > Donna <cfollabwoo42003@> wrote: the substance is a
> > "protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps related to red
tide or
> > > algae. sick birds have now been found at capitola beach. it probably
> > won't clear up till a
> > > change in the weather like rain and high winds occur. it is
> > supposedly not related to sf oil
> > > spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like a soap or
> > detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
> > >
> >
>
- 2g.
Re: breaking news, mystery spill
Posted by: "Cynthia Hanson" hanson_cynthia@... hanson_cynthia
Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:20 pm (PST)
Margie,
You should foreword this letter to the Station
Manager of KSBW. Great letter! All of this information
is easily found on the net. Why more people don't look
it up is frustrating! CheckMate is just that, a
CheckMate from our lovely State Representatives and
Governor. I was doing yard work yesterday and this
morning I have a rash all over my hand. I even had
gloves on but took them off just a couple of times for
a very short time. I was working in an area that my
husband and I didn't cover up during the spraying.
Gee, I wonder where I got the rash, could it be,
ChedckMate-F! Of course it is!
Anyway, good point's in your letter Margie.
--- The McArthurs <thezoo@cruzio.com > wrote:
> I don't think it is just you being paranoid; my gut
> is telling me the same
> thing.
>
> What we need here is an independent chemist to have
> a look at all
> this.....I am not a chemist, and my chemistry
> classes were 40 years ago,
> but I think someone with a decent background in
> chemistry could easily cut
> through some of this cover-up BS being dished out by
> the DFG.
>
> When I listened to that TV report last night I saw
> how much of a non-story
> propaganda piece it was. Essentially, they wanted
> to assure the public the
> bird situation had nothing to do with the spraying.
> They didn't know what
> it was, but they knew what it wasn't. The best they
> could come up with as
> to what it might be is a "protein-based surfactant."
> Hello! Surfactants
> are found in all kinds of products (especially in
> soaps, as sudsing
> agents) and are industrially created---some from
> natural sources, some from
> synthetic---but they are human-created, and the
> naturally occuring ones are
> chemically modified for industrial use. As far as I
> know (and I am willing
> to be corrected if I'm wrong), surfectants aren't
> created by red tide
> die-off of phytoplanktons or dinoflagellates.
> Rather, surfactants can
> contribute to red tide. So IF the red tide created
> the glop that all's over
> the birds, it's because the surfactant level of the
> water had been
> increased, thus creating the red tide.
>
> As someone on this group has already pointed out,
> Checkmate contains
> surfactants. Both Sodium Phosphate and Ammonium
> Phosphate are surfactants.
> In fact, the use of trisodium phosphate in
> detergents was decreased when it
> was found that it increased algal blooms (which then
> die off and cause red
> tides!). And the Tricaprylyl methyl ammonium
> chloride (Aliquat 336) in
> Checkmate ODF-R is classified as a "quaternary
> ammonium salt," and these
> are also used as surfactants.
>
> And finally, the Polyvinyl Alcohol may be playing a
> role here too as it has
> adhesive and "film-forming" properties, and this
> glop was sticking to the
> birds. Essentially, Suterra created a product that
> WOULD stick to surfaces,
> so the pheromones could be dispersed over their 30
> day time period. So why
> all the phoney surprise that we're finding something
> stuck all over the
> birds? It seems to me that the chemicals in the
> spray could easily have
> caused this, especially in combination with the oils
> in the birds'
> feathers. Sounds to me like when the spray hit the
> ocean and began
> dissolving into its component parts, some of the
> interacted in new ways
> with the ocean environment and created glop, which
> then affixed itself to
> the birdies and who knows what else. So the DFG
> should be running tests not
> just for the presence of Checkmate, but for each and
> every one of its
> ingredients.
>
> Informative links for those so inclined:
> http://www.answers.com/topic/ surfactant? cat=health
> http://www.p2pays.org/ref%5C03/ 02960.pdf
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Aliquat_336
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Quaternary_ ammonium_ salt
>
http://www.answers.com/topic/ polyvinyl- alcohol?cat= technology
>
> --Margie
>
>
> At 09:47 AM 11/28/2007, you wrote:
>
> >I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is
> responsible.
> >
> >I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about
> the white waxy stuff
> >I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered
> him samples and was
> >told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison
> sample of the
> >checkmate. However, he did say that there were
> serious concerns about
> >this. I could only hope that the substance on the
> bird feathers will
> >be compared to the actual substance that was
> sprayed.
> >
> >Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the
> wetting agent
> >since it is not part of the actual checkmate
> formula?
> >
> >I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.
> >
> >--- In
>
><mailto:stopoverheadspraying% 40yahoogroups. com>stopoverheadsprayin g@yahoogroups. ,com
>
> >David Haisten
> ><dhaisten7@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from
> the spray. Since the
> >lab is in Sacramento this information can not be
> trusted. An
> >independent lab needs to verify this conclusion.
> There are surfactants
> >in the spray.
> > >
> > > Donna <cfollabwoo42003@...> wrote: the substance
> is a
> >"protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps
> related to red tide or
> > > algae. sick birds have now been found at
> capitola beach. it probably
> >won't clear up till a
> > > change in the weather like rain and high winds
> occur. it is
> >supposedly not related to sf oil
> > > spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like
> a soap or
> >detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
> > >
> >
> >
>
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- 2h.
Re: breaking news, mystery spill
Posted by: "Isabelle Jenniches" ijenniches@... ijenniches
Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:13 pm (PST)
Margie and all, this is such an important conversation. Re:
independent chemist. I would suggest to contact Dr. Todd Urbansky.
Take a look at the report that he submitted to Vice-Mayor Havermann to
be part of the law suit in federal court. The chemist's concerns and
conclusions about the pheromone product are posted here with link to
download the whole report (lots of complex chemistry)
http://forum.stopthespray. org/viewtopic. php?f=10& t=80
> I don't think it is just you being paranoid; my gut is telling me
the same
> thing.
>
> What we need here is an independent chemist to have a look at all
> this.....I am not a chemist, and my chemistry classes were 40 years
ago,
> but I think someone with a decent background in chemistry could
easily cut
> through some of this cover-up BS being dished out by the DFG.
>
> When I listened to that TV report last night I saw how much of a
non-story
> propaganda piece it was. Essentially, they wanted to assure the
public the
> bird situation had nothing to do with the spraying. They didn't know
what
> it was, but they knew what it wasn't. The best they could come up
with as
> to what it might be is a "protein-based surfactant." Hello!
Surfactants
> are found in all kinds of products (especially in soaps, as sudsing
> agents) and are industrially created---some from natural sources,
some from
> synthetic---but they are human-created, and the naturally occuring
ones are
> chemically modified for industrial use. As far as I know (and I am
willing
> to be corrected if I'm wrong), surfectants aren't created by red tide
> die-off of phytoplanktons or dinoflagellates. Rather, surfactants can
> contribute to red tide. So IF the red tide created the glop that
all's over
> the birds, it's because the surfactant level of the water had been
> increased, thus creating the red tide.
>
> As someone on this group has already pointed out, Checkmate contains
> surfactants. Both Sodium Phosphate and Ammonium Phosphate are
surfactants.
> In fact, the use of trisodium phosphate in detergents was decreased
when it
> was found that it increased algal blooms (which then die off and
cause red
> tides!). And the Tricaprylyl methyl ammonium chloride (Aliquat 336) in
> Checkmate ODF-R is classified as a "quaternary ammonium salt," and
these
> are also used as surfactants.
>
> And finally, the Polyvinyl Alcohol may be playing a role here too as
it has
> adhesive and "film-forming" properties, and this glop was sticking
to the
> birds. Essentially, Suterra created a product that WOULD stick to
surfaces,
> so the pheromones could be dispersed over their 30 day time period.
So why
> all the phoney surprise that we're finding something stuck all over the
> birds? It seems to me that the chemicals in the spray could easily
have
> caused this, especially in combination with the oils in the birds'
> feathers. Sounds to me like when the spray hit the ocean and began
> dissolving into its component parts, some of the interacted in new ways
> with the ocean environment and created glop, which then affixed
itself to
> the birdies and who knows what else. So the DFG should be running
tests not
> just for the presence of Checkmate, but for each and every one of its
> ingredients.
>
> Informative links for those so inclined:
> http://www.answers.com/topic/ surfactant? cat=health
> http://www.p2pays.org/ref%5C03/ 02960.pdf
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Aliquat_336
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Quaternary_ ammonium_ salt
> http://www.answers.com/topic/ polyvinyl- alcohol?cat= technology
>
> --Margie
>
>
> At 09:47 AM 11/28/2007, you wrote:
>
> >I agree David. My gut tells me that the spray is responsible.
> >
> >I emailed Dave Jessup from DFG and told him about the white waxy stuff
> >I scraped off my car the morning after. I offered him samples and was
> >told that the CDFA had supplied the comparison sample of the
> >checkmate. However, he did say that there were serious concerns about
> >this. I could only hope that the substance on the bird feathers will
> >be compared to the actual substance that was sprayed.
> >
> >Also, does anyone know if they have to disclose the wetting agent
> >since it is not part of the actual checkmate formula?
> >
> >I just hope this is not just me being paranoid.
> >
> >--- In
>
><mailto:stopoverheadspraying% 40yahoogroups. com>stopoverheadsprayin g@yahoogroups. ,com
> >David Haisten
> ><dhaisten7@> wrote:
> > >
> > > In my opinion the "protein" surfactant is from the spray. Since the
> >lab is in Sacramento this information can not be trusted. An
> >independent lab needs to verify this conclusion. There are surfactants
> >in the spray.
> > >
> > > Donna <cfollabwoo42003@> wrote: the substance is a
> >"protein surfactant" of unknown origin, perhaps related to red tide or
> > > algae. sick birds have now been found at capitola beach. it probably
> >won't clear up till a
> > > change in the weather like rain and high winds occur. it is
> >supposedly not related to sf oil
> > > spill or lbam spraying. the surfactant acts like a soap or
> >detergent. (ksbw channel 8 news)
> > >
> >
> >
>
- 2i.
Myster Spill and Health Claim Forms
Posted by: "Rami Nagel" ramison2000@... ramison2000
Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:15 pm (PST)
Hi Everyone,
#1 Tony Madrigal suggested if you have a health claim
form to send a copy to the Santa Cruz City Attorney
JBarisone@abc-law.com , and their fax is (831)
423-9401, (831) 423-8383 x218, 333 Church St, Santa
Cruz, CA 95060-3838.
#2. When I talked on the phone with the Department of
Fish and Game, they said they have such expert
chemistry analysis that they can many times tell which
factory made each and every chemical they find. I also
posted a letter on my website which shows that the
DFG, does not believe Checkmate is dangerous in any
way.
http://www.hopefortruth.com/ LBAM_Forms/ Laird%20Letter% 20LBAM.pdf
I am too busy to talk with them, but anyone can take
up the cause.
AQUATIC TOXICOLOGY LAB
Department of Fish and Game
9300 Elk Grove-Florin Rd
Elk Grove, CA 95624
(916) 685-1880 Fax: (916) 714-9178
Contact: Sandi Finlayson
Brian Finlayson, Supervisor
PESTICIDES INVESTIGATION LAB
Department of Fish and Game
1701 Nimbus Road, Suite F
Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
(916) 358-2950 Fax: (916) 358-2953
Contact: Claudia Bunch
Brian Finlayson, Supervisor
PETROLEUM CHEMISTRY
LABORATORY
Department of Fish and Game
1995 Nimbus Road
Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
(916) 358-2803 Fax: (916) 358-2801
Contact: Pam Hall
Dave Crane, Supervisor
WATER POLLUTION CONTROL LAB
Department of Fish and Game
2005 Nimbus Road
Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
(916) 358-2858 Fax: (916) 985-4301
Contact: Charlene Lane
Dave Crane, Supervisor
Have fun,
Rami
_____________________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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- 3.
Fwd: [WETHEPEOPLE_UNITED] Texas Chemtrail Samples Compared 2Samples
Posted by: "Cal" calgirlsddd85021@... calgirlsddd85021
Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:08 am (PST)
Note: forwarded message attached.
--------------------- --------- ---
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
- 4a.
Re: Gathering at the Ugly Mug Cafe, 11/28/2007, 6:00 pm
Posted by: "Cynthia Hanson" hanson_cynthia@... hanson_cynthia
Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:58 am (PST)
Wow Isabelle are you going to be there all day?? What
dedication! My husband and I planned on attending
tonight's meeting and the one on Sunday. I know what
Sunday's meeting is about but not tonight's. Is it a
planning one like Sunday's? Anyone know? We look
foreword to meeting some of you.
I've been busy the last several days but been trying
to stay on top of the mails in this list and doing
more research. It's nice to see new people speaking
out on the list. I feel like all the groups are
building strength and in our unity we will succeed in
stopping this lunacy
--- Isabelle Jenniches <ijenniches@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Hi Folks, I'm at the ugly Mug already. I have no
> idea who called this
> meeting, but I will let you know how it went. Nice
> to meet my
> neighbors with their pitch forks ; ) Isabelle.
>
>
>
> > Reminder from: stopoverheadspraying Yahoo! Group
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/stopoverhe adspraying/ cal
> >
> > Gathering at the Ugly Mug Cafe
> > Wednesday November 28, 2007
> > 6:00 pm - 7:00 pm
> > Location: The Ugly Mug, 4640 Soquel Dr.
> >
> > Notes:
> >
> > Gathering at the Ugly Mug Cafe
> http://www.cafeugly.com/The% 20Ugly%20Mug. html
> >
> >
> > 831.477.1341
> >
> >
> > All Rights Reserved
> > Copyright © 2007
> > Yahoo! Inc.
> > http://www.yahoo.com
> >
> > Privacy Policy:
> > http://privacy.yahoo.com/ privacy/us
> >
> > Terms of Service:
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/ info/terms/
> >
>
>
>
_____________________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
- 5.1.
Important Changes to the parade-please read
Posted by: "Bonnie Keet" BONNIE619@... bonnie619
Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:08 pm (PST)
Change of Outreach Venue at the Santa Cruz Holiday Parade
Dear Understanding Fellow Anti-aerial Spraying Activists:
We have become a force to be reckoned with. This is a good thing. But when that happens it increases our visibility and as a result our opposition has begun to find their voice.
I have had many families and organizations within and without our group very concerned about injecting politics into the holiday parade. Some more angry than others, their point - this is an event meant to focus on the holidays, not any particular political perspective. That coupled with the facts that
- the truck broke down
- we are literally too big of a group (the biggest the parade has ever seen)
- the truck broke down (I said that twice on purpose)
-and most important to getting our message out is having a stationary spot to sign people up for action and collect money for our "give aways"
This perfect storm of issues has led me to take our group out of the parade walking and into the stationary space offered in front of Oneill’s Surf Shop during the holiday parade. The Downtown Business Association has offered to give us the space with tables and permits during the set up, running and pedestrian milling about after the parade.
I know many of you will not agree with this change of venue. Please keep your flame mails to one per family and please remember I am one of you and trying to do the best I can to further our cause without furthering our opposition.
One last note, a group that can be fluid and responsive in its approach will ultimately be much more effective than one with its feet dug in.
See you in front of Oneills on Sat. Dec. 1st. We will be there at 8A and on. I truly hope you will still come.
Bonnie Keet
bonnie619@yahoo.com
431-0773
Peace,
Bonnie
- 5.2.
Re: Important Changes to the parade-please read
Posted by: "Cal" calgirlsddd85021@... calgirlsddd85021
Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:32 pm (PST)
This email is from a chemtrails group that I am involved with. Bonnie is having similar problems to what 'WE' all encounter daily, eh?
I have vet groups, chemtrail groups, Depleted Uranium Groups, 911 Groups, and individuals.......... ......... .. yadayadayada. ...... and many of the groups are separate within the groups as far as states and countries go........
We have much to share and support even tho our HEARTS are set on different things. (That being our quest for a better world.)
Good Luck Bonnie and my prayers are with you in California.......
If you get negative input from your peers just know that u'r doing what u can to make this a better place for OUR children and g'kids no matter what........ YOU GO GIRL!!!
PEACE and AGAPE to all!!!
Bonnie Keet <BONNIE619@YAHOO.COM > wrote:
Change of Outreach Venue at the Santa Cruz Holiday Parade
Dear Understanding Fellow Anti-aerial Spraying Activists:
We have become a force to be reckoned with. This is a good thing. But when that happens it increases our visibility and as a result our opposition has begun to find their voice.
I have had many families and organizations within and without our group very concerned about injecting politics into the holiday parade. Some more angry than others, their point - this is an event meant to focus on the holidays, not any particular political perspective. That coupled with the facts that
- the truck broke down
- we are literally too big of a group (the biggest the parade has ever seen)
- the truck broke down (I said that twice on purpose)
-and most important to getting our message out is having a stationary spot to sign people up for action and collect money for our "give aways"
This perfect storm of issues has led me to take our group out of the parade walking and into the stationary space offered in front of Oneill’s Surf Shop during the holiday parade. The Downtown Business Association has offered to give us the space with tables and permits during the set up, running and pedestrian milling about after the parade.
I know many of you will not agree with this change of venue. Please keep your flame mails to one per family and please remember I am one of you and trying to do the best I can to further our cause without furthering our opposition.
One last note, a group that can be fluid and responsive in its approach will ultimately be much more effective than one with its feet dug in.
See you in front of Oneills on Sat. Dec. 1st. We will be there at 8A and on. I truly hope you will still come.
Bonnie Keet
bonnie619@yahoo.com
431-0773
Peace,
Bonnie
--------------------- --------- ---
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
- 6.
short report of meeting w/ Laird
Posted by: "Isabelle Jenniches" ijenniches@... ijenniches
Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:59 pm (PST)
All in all the meeting w/ Assembly man John Laird went GREAT. One of
the many good things I took away from it: Cecily (verbally) rammed her
finger into his chest and asked "What can and should we do? How to
best apply ourselves?" Laird had two strategies to share:
1. Do what the CDFA should be doing, but does not.
a) Get expert studies on the long-and short term effects of the aerial
spraying campaign on human health and the environment.
b) Collect and analyze statistical data of the effects of aerial
spraying on residents.
2. Get to the government officials that have the power to make
legislative changes, and those that will convince them to do so.
Laird can propose legislative changes, but his bill proposal has to
pass Maldonado's approval. Additionally we should focus on those in
power locally and in the Bay Area that will be up for reelection next
year, as well as create the groundswell in public opinion and NGOs to
support our cause.
Much of the above is already underway. A meeting with Maldonado is in
the planning as the next recipient of the petition. The federal law
suit generated some excellent studies by experts. Some of us have been
working on a questionnaire to compile the effects on residents. Many
have been writing letters and done outreach. We all do an amazing
amount of research. Now we have to coordinate these efforts and make
good use of the wider support of the public, generated through the Dec
9 Townhall Meeting.
I'd say stay tuned for the Townhall Meeting! There will be the
opportunity to coordinate and apply ourselves.
John will probably chime in here at some point, I know Wednesday is
harvest day for him, so he is _busy_.
See you at the Ugly Mug! Isabelle.
- 7a.
Ugly Mug Meeting
Posted by: "hanson_cynthia" hanson_cynthia@... hanson_cynthia
Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:23 pm (PST)
Is there a gathering tonight at the Ugly Mug?
- 7b.
Re: Ugly Mug Meeting
Posted by: "Isabelle Jenniches" ijenniches@... ijenniches
Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:31 pm (PST)
Yes, 6-7 PM. I'm going, with Margaret... Bonnie will be there... Liz...
Should be good! See you there! Isabelle.
>
> Is there a gathering tonight at the Ugly Mug?
>
- 7c.
Re: Ugly Mug Meeting
Posted by: "Isabelle Jenniches" ijenniches@... ijenniches
Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:49 am (PST)
Here my attempt at summarizing this most extraordinary meeting.
Margaret, please add and correct. It was sometimes hard to get the
details with the coffee maker grinding and so many people around the
table -I'd say about 25+ all in all.
The running gag was that nobody seemed to have called this meeting,
yet we were all there, and made good use of it, too. Liz filled
everybody in about the Townhall Meeting on Dec 9, 6-8 PM, then Bonnie
announced the changes about the Holiday Parade, it's going to take
place in front of o'Neill's surf shop. Details in earlier postings or
on http://forum.stopthespray. org
Then Ed Porter showed up! Finally we got some solid info on the
ongoing law suit. SC city & county have joined forces and their
attorneys are pressing on with suing the State to achieve a verdict
before the spraying resumes. They are basically attacking the
emergency clause and rest on the CEQA, outlining that the spraying
campaign has been conducted in a "capricious and arbitrary" way. Ed
was calling on us to write as many or more affidavits as were filed in
federal court.
Ed continued by mentioning that both he and the SC city manager are
pilots, and that led to some interesting discussions about how low the
planes are allowed to fly and how precide they really can be. All
stuff that we have been wondering about in this yahoo group!
Then he related that he witnessed how the workings of a pump that had
been inactive since the spraying, suddenly created a huge amount of
foam in a creek. He has pictures and samples of this incident, and has
sent these in to the water company, together with pictures from foam
at Capitola Beach. ---->Ed Porter is asking for Checkmate samples from
anybody who has them still in the fridge!<----- I know there are a
bunch of them out there, this is your call to get rid of your samples!
Email Ed Porter eporter at ci dot santa-cruz dot ca dot us
Next: VOICES live Community TV show on Thursday Nov 29, 7:30 PM
http://63.249.88.159/cablecast /public/Show. aspx?ChannelID= 3&ShowID= 4531
There is no info specifically on the website, but if I got this right,
then people can be in the live audience (come early!) or volunteer to
be interviewed. Not sure who is the coordinator, so call Community TV
if you are interested.
Then we all had to move outside, as the band was setting up. The Mug
staff and customers showed incredible patience with the angry mob that
we are (not), huge thank you to them! Before we all dispersed there
were more discussions on the side walk. So good to meet some of you
from this yahoo group face to face and to reconnect with others.
A small group then continued on at Roy Upton's house, hatching plans
and getting strategic, and fleshing out the Townhall Meeting.
What an amazing evening. We'll never know who called this meeting at
the Ugly Mug, but I have a hunch it was the tooth ferry, granting our
collective wish. Isabelle.
- 8.
Fwd: Balloon Banner Action skill share
Posted by: "Emily Levy" juiceforjustice@... emlevv
Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:49 pm (PST)
The Ruckus Society does great workshops about creative tactics such as
this one. Wish I could go. Maybe someone could go and bring back the
skills for us to use in our struggle against the spraying?
Emily L.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Balloon Banner Action skill share
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:47:22 -0500 (EST)
From: The Ruckus Society <ruckus@mail.democracyinactio >n.org
Reply-To: ruckus@mail.democracyinactio n.org
To: juiceforjustice@baymoon.com
----------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.9/1157 - Release Date: 11/28/2007 12:29 PM
Need to Reply?Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily Digest.To report adverse reactions to the spraying, contact:
ReactionToSpraying@...
The State plans to continue forcing Monterey Peninsula residents to endure their experimental LBAM spraying program through the year 2010. Join with your friends and neighbors in the fight to preserve our freedoms, our health, our homes and our environment. Go to yahoogroups.com and join the group
StopOverheadSpraying@yahoogroups.com
For further information and updates: www.1hope.org
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