Hi Laura.

You should be able to return both the Austin machines. They have a 30 day money back guarantee, and some distributors may be willing to cut you some slack with that timeline, especially if they understand the complexities of MCS.

Thanx for sharing your comparison with the two potassium permanganate machines. Someone else I know who bought an Austin Healthmate Plus was told that he must be reacting to that. So he got one without and still reacted to it. For me it was the carbon they said I had to be reacting to, but the problem persisted after I changed that. Only when I got that machine out of my space did the air quality improve slowly. I'm convinced that there's something going on with the HEPA they're not disclosing, at best it's the large amount of glue, at worst they treated it with some anti-microbial.

I actually quite like the Aireox, and originally had every intention of getting one, but then realized that there's just not enough carbon for the level of pollution in my home (I live next to the laundry room...). I bet it would make a great machine for the car though. I think there's something like 4 lbs of carbon in the small portable Aireox, and not that much more in the larger version. I finally decided to go with the Airpura C600, because I could get 26 lbs of pure carbon in it, which is making a huge difference inspite of its limitations when it comes to formaldehyde. I'm glad the potassium permanganate is working for you. I've heard that it's the one thing somewhat effective on formaldehyde, but I've been too afraid to try it, since I've had such a hard time finding anything at all that still works for me. With the new "green label" carpet my landlord laid outside my apartment, I sure could use a little help fighting formaldehyde...

Good luck with the exchange for a better machine, and be well.

Isis


lauradorala <lepidoptera17@...> wrote:

HI Isis,

SOrry for not responding earlier! I just checked and saw the great
email your wrote. (I wasn't doing well with all the fumes at work,
and finally have some energy)

I got an austin air purifier - healthmate plus since there is a lot of
formaldehyde in our office (wish I had read your advice earlier) and
have some problems with it for some reason. I can't figure out why,
but reading about the different kinds of carbon used is interesting.

I also got an aerox car air purifier, with the extra potassium
compounds added, and I have absolutely no problem with it.... I
called NEEDS and they said they thought it was the same potassium
compound in both, so I couldn't figure out what was the problem.

I bought two Austins (one iwth school money) and I'd like to return
the one that hasn't been used. Unfortunately, my coworked thought he
was doing a good deed and opened it and plugged it in for a bit, so
I'm sure it's no longer returnable. I would love to send it back and
get a bigger Aerox, as that one seems okay and does wonders on Diesel
exhaust when I'm driving.

Did you think it just didn't have enough carbon?? Anything else you
didn't like about it?

Thanks so much for the in depth analysis!

Laura




--- In BayCanaryGrapevine@yahoogroups.com, isis feral
wrote:
>
> Hi Laura and everyone.
>
> Austin Air was sold...?! Do you know anything more about who, what
and when this happened, or where I could get more information?
>
> I had a HORRIBLE experience with Austin Air earlier this year, and I
urge everyone to stay away from them! I got one of their machines, the
Healthmate (not Healthmate Plus, since it contains something extra
that can make sensitive folks react), and it immediately made me ill.
My lung function was reduced to about half or a third of normal.
>
> I called the company, wondering if it could be the HEPA, because
I've heard that some people react to it. I never had before, but their
version of HEPA is "medical grade" rather than the cheaper, "true"
HEPA sold by many of the smaller companies (like Holmes, which are
encased in plastic). I was told that it couldn't possibly be the HEPA,
that it must be the carbon I'm reacting to. They told me that they
automatically put anthracite carbon into the machines, and that
coconut shell carbon costs extra. The fact that there is a choice was
never mentioned anywhere on any distributor's site I've ever seen in
all the years I've researched air purifiers, or I would have ordered
the coconut carbon from the start.
>
> So they convinced me to get the other kind of carbon, the coconut
shell, the same kind I'd been using for around 8 years in a
discontinued machine I had that finally broke. The new filter also
made me ill immediately. This time my eyes and sinuses were burning,
and that lasted for days. I tried to air out the contamination with
fans pointed out my window, and that took hours to become somewhat
manageable, but it lingered for days after, as did the burning.
>
> I called the company again to find out what's up with the HEPA,
because it became clear that it couldn't be anything else. There's
only so many components in this machine. No one knew anything. There
was some suggestion that maybe the HEPA is bleached, but that was
denied later. I asked for a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS), and was
given the runaround for weeks. Finally I was told I could get the MSDS
for $100, plus $20 shipping... Most MSDS sheets I've seen are just a
few pages long, and that's for the really poisonous stuff, like
pesticides... What could possibly be in this filter that would justify
$100 worth of copying and $20 worth of shipping...?!! Needless to say,
I never got any MSDS from them, and hence, no further information
about what poisoned me. I can only say that I found their machine to
be dangerous, and their business practices dishonest!
>
> I've since done some more research into HEPA in general, which I
will be compiling, along with more details of this saga, and sending
to this list and elsewhere as soon as I get a chance. HEPA doesn't
refer to a specific material, but to a specific ability of a material
to filter particles. So HEPA filters vary a lot. There are some,
particularly marketed to hospitals (!), that contain biocides to
filter out germs, which then are released into the air. I would be
very careful trusting anything that is called medical grade HEPA
especially. And be aware with any HEPA filter that they are glued into
the frame, and the glue itself can be toxic.
>
> HEPA is all about particles, and does nothing for chemical fumes.
For chemical fumes carbon (aka charcoal) is the answer (and don't
trust the ionizer hype - those things are virtually useless, plus they
can make some pollutants more toxic). Some people also use zeolite
(Austin's 15 pounds of carbon is actually a much smaller quantity,
since they mix it with about one third zeolite), but I've not found it
as effective in an air purifier as carbon. Zeolite is great in a
container in your closet though, where it soaks up all sorts of bad
smells, and as soon as it doesn't work anymore, you have to expose it
to the sun for a day or so, and it's as good as new.
>
> I finally got an Airpura C600, which does not contain HEPA, though
does have a fabric that performs similarly. The C600 is carbon only,
26 pounds of it in a 3 inch bed, and mine is 100% coconut shell. I've
had mine running for a few weeks now, and am slowly re-adjusting to
the carbon smell, which never bothered me before, but which I was
apparently sensitized to after my horrifying exposure to the Austin
Air. A catastrophic sensitization, since I rely on carbon both in my
air purifier in my apartment, and in the mask I wear outside...
>
> I've not tried any of the Foust machines. But I would recommend
getting samples of any filtration media they may use, so you can test
it. Though sometimes a small sample may not tell you what will happen
if air is forced through a larger quantity of it, so it's not a fool
proof way to test, but will give you some idea. I think all their
large machines use HEPA, but I may be wrong. I know they sell smaller
machines with carbon only, but my sense is that they are too small,
with too little carbon to make a dent in any environment that has a
lot of chemical contamination coming through.
>
> The Aireox is also a nice little machine, carbon only, no motor
exposed, but a very small amount of carbon, and I didn't find it
useful even for my small studio apartment. Allerair machines are
comparable to Airpura, though not as well made, less carbon, and much
more expensive. All other air purifiers I've come across are encased
in plastic, and they offgass for some time after, so I've only
mentioned machines here that are encased in metal.
>
> I recommend calling the companies and asking lots of questions:
> E. L. Foust 1-800-353-6878
> Airpura 1-866-505-7872 (C600 for people with MCS)
>
> In terms of cleaners, I would caution a bit about Ecover and Planet,
the only two you mentioned, Laura, that I've tried: Some of their
products are great, others have a very strong scent to them. Ecover
dish soap has a subtle smell to it that bothers me when I'm under the
weather (I use the lemon version), and their marigold version pushes
me over the edge. Some of the more hardcore cleaning products
especially have a strong smell, and I wouldn't recommend them.
>
> Here are a couple of links to cleaning product recipes from simple,
safer components, explaining what each of them accomplishes, any part
of it you might consider printing out for your building manager:
> http://www.ecocycle.org/hazwaste/recipes.cfm
> http://es.epa.gov/techinfo/facts/safe-fs.html
>
http://www.ebmud.com/wastewater/residential_pollution_prevention/CleanItGuide2003.pdf
>
> I've never used Botanic Gold, but would love to hear what your
experience is. Sounds like it's an enzyme cleaner of some sort, though
with anything botanic I would ask how it's extracted. There is alcohol
in this product, and I wonder about whether it dissipates quickly and
if there's a chemical reaction with the enzymes that either make them
useless or smell stronger. Please do share if you have any experience
with this product.
>
> Good Luck, and Be Well
>
> Isis
>
>
> Valerie Igl wrote: Bon Ami makes a good cleanser, and
it seems to be pretty readily available.
> My housecleaner uses only vinegar and Bon Ami to clean most
anything. For
> air cleaners, I like using Holmes HEPA models. I have seen the smaller
> models in stores, but you can also order from the company 1-800-5-HOLMES
>
> VALERIE IGL, MFT
> www.FeministTherapyAssociates.com
> VALIGL@...
> 510-527-5662 x3
>
> Therapy, Consulting, Training & EMDR
> Scent-free office near El Cerrito Plaza BART
> Sliding scale / Medi-Cal
> Abuse survivors, sexuality, addiction, disability
> Sexual minorities (trans, bi, lesbian, kink, poly)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lauradorala"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:39 AM
> Subject: [BayCanaryGrapevine] advice on air purifiers/ cleaning
products for
> work?
>
>
> > Hi,
> > As school is starting agan, and I am fresh with more energy, I've
> > decided to ask if the cleaning crew can use unscented, nontoxic
> > cleaners.
> >
> > the building manager asked me for a list of what they could use, and
> > I offered her this:
> >
> > 7th generation (non lavender scented), Ecover, Planet, white vinegar,
> > something called botanic gold on foustco.com
> >
> > Does anyone have any additional ideas?
> >
> > In addition, they painted the office (and unfortunately did not
> > follow my request to use no VOC paint) so I am energized now to get
> > an air purifier that works. (And, being a teacher, I can spend most
> > of my time out of the office, and in the classroom, which is probably
> > the healthiest way to deal with it)
> >
> > I suggested the largest room Foustco.com air purifier. (the school
> > will pay for it). Has anyone used this, and do you have any feedback
> > on this model or others? (I hear the old austin air purifiers work
> > well, but that the company was sold, so I didn't get any info on the
> > newer models)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Laura
> >
> >

---

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