OK.  I've tried posting this message three times - let's see if I
get it right this time.

I also am frustrated by the fact that women don't seem very upset
about how they are being treated now.  Why are women not furious
that their lives and the lives of their babies are being endangered
by utilizing practices that are proven to be unsafe?

There was an uproar a few days ago about a middle school that is
offering birth control to its students, some of whom are as young as
11 years old.  People are furious that children that age are having
access to birth control, because they might actually use it!
Instead of teaching young girls about how their bodies work, we
train them to practice abstinence.  In a country where 50% of
pregnancies are unintended, it's because women are taught from very
early on to not ask questions about their bodies, and wait until
someone else tells them that it's ok for them to gain the knowledge
that they need.  So women trust that their doctor will tell them
what they need to know when they need to know it.

How can you even teach girls about how their bodies work, such as
changes in body temperature when they ovulate, changes in cervical
mucous, etc, without it appearing that you are giving them the
information to avoid pregnancy through the rhythm method?  You can't
even teach them about normal bodily secretions!

I would love to see things really shaken up.  I have a fantasy that
women's groups all over the country go out and picket in front of
hospitals with signs to let women know about the practices that
occur in a managed hospital birth.  I feel like we need real "in
your face" kind of movement to wake women up.

Michal

Hi.

I am so glad that you wrote that!  I felt exactly the same way as I
read it, in fact I could not even got through the entire book because
it was all just making me so sad and angry...
Here are my ramblings....
I am a new nurse, not in L & D as the hospital I work at has an
extremely high c-section rate and I just didn't think I could handle
it.  I am still trying to figure out how to be active in the movement
and still sleep at night.  This book was a good example of why I made
this decision, as I had a difficult time going to sleep at night due
to the anger and sadness that was building up inside of me.
Thank you for posting your comment, it made me feel not so alone in my
search be an activist in a movement/issue that most women in my family
and wider circle accept as "natural" (ie. c-sections, pit, epidurals).
  In fact the majority of the nurses I work with elect for scheduled
c-sections!!!!!
I also have to add that many of Blocks comments made me question the
decisions I made during my own birth.  Then I got to thinking about
how other women might feel judged or "left out" by having birth
stories that involve epidurals, membrane stripping, or c-sections?
How do we continue to attract women to this and talk to them about
their options when they truly believe what their doctor and health
care professionals are telling them?
Anyway, obviously I was left with a lot of questions, many of them
personal, about the movement, about my role in the movement, and about
how to get women outside of this circle to read books like this
without feeling judged or angered.
All of that aside, I applaud this book for stating the truth and
asking some incredibly difficult questions that we all need to think
about.  Can you tell how conflicted I currently am?:)
Look forward to the call.
melissa


--- In BOLDBookClub@yahoogroups.com, "Jillian De Moya"
<joyfulbirthjourneys@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have to admit, this book has been hard for me so far.  I agree with
> everything, but I am angered, and occasionally overwhelmed with what
I am
> reading.  The other thing for me is that I am finding that most of the
> information I know already.  To be fair, I am only a little more
than half
> way through it, but are any other "birthing" people feeling this?
>
> Michal, I think your insight is right on, and I would love to see
this book
> read widely.  Maybe I'm feeling just a little tired and cranky, I don't
> know.  But one line in the book really resonated with me.  At that
hospital
> in NJ where the c-sec rate is 44%, an older Dr. who said that back
in the
> 80's there was a feminist movement and the women back then wouldn't
put up
> with the crap that happens today!  Wow.  What has happened?  What has
> changed?!  The cry in my heart is WHEN are the WOMEN going to stand
up and
> say that they're NOT going to buy this line being given ANYMORE!!!!
   On so
> many fronts in maternity care!
>
> Well, sorry to throw a damper in there after such happy comments, but do
> ya'll relate?
>
> Jillian
>
> On 10/23/07, Sheridan Ripley <sherinfo@...> wrote:
> >
> >    I wholeheartedly agree with all you said!  I haven't quite finished
> > reading, but am loving what I have read so far.  Very good
information in
> > this book!
> > sheridan
> >
> >
> >  On 10/23/07, Michal <Michal@...> wrote:
> >
> > > I think this book is excellent.  I find it to be on par with Marsden
> > > Wagner's book, "Born In The USA."  The difference between them is
> > > that Dr. Wagner is an insider, and looks at issues from that
> > > perspective, whereas Jennifer Block is a journalist who is not yet a
> > > mother, and looks at the issues with the clarity of someone who is
> > > not caught up in the system.
> > >
> > > I contrast that with Tina Cassidy's book, and with other books
> > > written by women who already have children, and the writing is
> > > clearly influenced by the type of birth they experienced.  I find
> > > that women who have had negative experiences write about and focus
> > > on the pain and fear of birth, but shortchange the power and
> > > strength of women.  Cassidy spends an awful lot of time describing
> > > the instruments used to extract dead fetuses from women's bodies.
> > > There is not a lot of emphasis on the fact that there were many more
> > > live babies born than dead ones.
> > >
> > > Jennifer looks at the numbers and sees that it is ridiculous that so
> > > many women are denied VBACS when such a small number of women and
> > > babies are harmed from them, and sees that maternity care is more
> > > about risk and liability than about healthcare.
> > >
> > > This is another book for a college course.  Women who are pregnant
> > > and are not looking to become specialists in birth activism are not
> > > the target audience for this book, although I wish they were.  This
> > > is a great book for a college course, where young women could be
> > > exposed to the issues from an intellectual standpoint, before they
> > > even think about having children.
> > >
> > > Michal
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sheridan, HCHI
> > My OC Hypnobabies site:   www.enjoybirth.com
> > Positive Hypnobabies Birth stories and Birth Video are at
> > www.pregnancybirthandbabies.com
> > Forever Green - healthy chocolate and other natural products.
> > http://www.myforevergreen.org/568601/
> > My Blog is at www.5rips.typepad.com
> >
> >
> >
>

I think this book is excellent.  I find it to be on par with Marsden
Wagner's book, "Born In The USA."  The difference between them is
that Dr. Wagner is an insider, and looks at issues from that
perspective, whereas Jennifer Block is a journalist who is not yet a
mother, and looks at the issues with the clarity of someone who is
not caught up in the system.

I contrast that with Tina Cassidy's book, and with other books
written by women who already have children, and the writing is
clearly influenced by the type of birth they experienced.  I find
that women who have had negative experiences write about and focus
on the pain and fear of birth, but shortchange the power and
strength of women.  Cassidy spends an awful lot of time describing
the instruments used to extract dead fetuses from women's bodies.
There is not a lot of emphasis on the fact that there were many more
live babies born than dead ones.

Jennifer looks at the numbers and sees that it is ridiculous that so
many women are denied VBACS when such a small number of women and
babies are harmed from them, and sees that maternity care is more
about risk and liability than about healthcare.

This is another book for a college course.  Women who are pregnant
and are not looking to become specialists in birth activism are not
the target audience for this book, although I wish they were.  This
is a great book for a college course, where young women could be
exposed to the issues from an intellectual standpoint, before they
even think about having children.

Michal

I just finished Pushed.  I think it is awesome, I'm so glad there are more and
more efforts to educate the public about the horrid state of birth in America (I
also just saw the film The Business of Being Born, which is really great). I'm
impressed that Block had so many interviews with OBs, nurses, and others on both
"sides" of the issue.  And I'm glad she wrote so much on birth being a
feminist/reproductive rights issue.
The one thing I wish, is that Jennifer Block had included more normal homebirth
stories, and that she had followed some other homebirth midwives in addition to
Linda.
I was quite upset to read about Cynthia Caleigh(sp?)...this happened in my
state, but before I became involved in the birth 'scene', so I hadn't heard
about it.  What a travesty to lose such an expert in traditional midwifery...so
absolutely infuriating that the witch hunt is allowed to go on.  I wonder if
she's practicing in her new location?
Anyway, I would definitely recommend Pushed to everyone, even pregnant women
(especially one who is planning a hospital birth...they NEED to know the truth).
I'm looking forward to the conference call.
-Liz Matthews

Hello,
My name is Lisa Preller and I am new to the group.  I currently work as a labor
and delivery
nurse, after being a doula for 7 years.  Additionally, I am 1 year in and 1 year
to go with my
training to become a certified nurse-midwife.
Happy to read all of your words of wisdom, observation and insights.  Just read
Pushed and
Birth and loved them both.
So, how to the conference calls work?
Peace,
Lisa Preller

The Conference call with author Jennifer Block will be held the last
Sunday of the month. October 28th, 2007 at 8pm eastern.
I will send out all the call-in information at the beginning of next
week.
If you will be calling in please write me a quick note so that I can
do an informal head count.

THANKS EVERYONE!

BOLDly,
Elisabeth Christian
BOLD Global Coordinator
BOLD Book Club Facilitator

Just a reminder...

BirthNetwork National Movie Night
"Born In The USA"

BirthNetwork National is hosting a free screening of the film
"Born In The USA."  This documentary takes a critical, yet even-
handed look at birth practices in the U.S. through the eyes of an
obstetrician at a busy teaching hospital, a certified nurse midwife
at a birthing center and a professional midwife who attends
homebirths.  Immediate and intimate, "Born in the USA" captures the
candid reflections of a variety of mothers, doctors, and midwives,
providing viewers with a fascinating inside look into the world of
birthing in America.   A "must-see" for expectant couples.

6:30 P.M., TUESDAY, OCTOBER 16

EAST HAMPTON LIBRARY
105 MAIN STREET
EAST HAMPTON, CT
Call Julie Shubert at (860) 267-7385 for information

Sponsored by BirthNetwork National of Greater Hartford, providing
monthly meetings, evidence-based information, support and friendship
throughout pregnancy, birth and into motherhood.

Hello BOLD Book Club,
How is everyone doing?  How far are we into the book?
Let's get the discussion rolling!
I will be posting soon with the details of this months teleconference
with the author - Jennifer Block (last Sunday of the month in the
evening)
I would love to have higher attendance at this months discussion!
(last month we had two people in addition to myself and the author)

I hope that all is well and to see some discussion starting soon!

In the BOLD Spirit,
Elisabeth Chrisitian, CD(DONA)
BOLD Global Coordinator
BOLD Book Club Facilitator

www.birthonlaborday.com

Hello Everyone,
Thank you to those who participated in this evenings teleconference
with the author Tina Cassidy. It was wonderful!
For those of you who would like more information (or to see her review
of Boston's performance of Birth) she was happy to share her website
and blog information.

Please feel free to visit or contact Ms. Tina Cassidy
www.tinacassidy.net
(her blog may be accessed through the "about the author" page)

Enjoy Everyone!

BOLDly,
Elisabeth Christian
BOLD Global Coordinator

I am happy to announce that the new BOLD Book Club selection is:
PUSHED: The Painful Truth about Chilbirth and Modern Maternity Care
by: Jennifer Block!
LET THE READING BEGIN! :)
I will let you all know as soon as we have our teleconference with the
author scheduled.
HAPPY READING!

Elisabeth Christian

Hello Everyone!
I am excited to become a more vocal part (and behind the scenes) of
your BOLD Book Club. I am currently serving as the BOLD Global
Coordinator and LOVE the idea of taking this on! How exciting this
will be! I look forward to getting to know all of you through our
discussions and end-of-month conversations.
A little about me...I live in the Chicago area with my husband and 3
children. I am a certified birth doula and have worked with a
community based program for more than 3 years now. Just recently, I
helped a local doctor form a doula program for his practice and
established a centering pregnancy group for his clinic. So
the "birthy" world is a passion of mine and I feel like reading these
books along with all of you fits right in to my groove!
Again, I look forward to getting to know all of you, through our
reading, discussions and conversations!
Please do not hesitate to contact me with any questions or concerns!
My best contact email is: boldbookclub@...

All my best!!!
Elisabeth Christian, CD(DONA)
BOLD Global Coordinator
www.birthonlaborday.com

Hello everyone,

I wanted to write you all today to let you know that I will no longer be facilitating the book club.  The season of life that I am in right now requires that all of my energies be available for my family.  

To read books that are so powerful, to rub virtual shoulders with such great women who are impacting their communities and to hear from such Bold authors is such an honor!  I look forward to continuing with you all as a member.

The Bold Global Coordinator will be facilitating.  Her name is Lis and I will let her introduce herself to you so that you can get to know her better.  I know that she will do a great job and I am looking forward to hearing from her!

It has been an honor and priveledge and I want to thank you all for being such powerful, BOLD women!

Warmly,

Jillian De Moya

It is scary to read and starting with the first chapter, that alone will make you question mankinds ability to still exist because of all the horrible things that can go wrong during birth.   Most of the really scary stories are from women who lived long ago and had Rickets, which caused bone softening and pelvic deformation.  Luckily if you are reading this you most likely live in a society where Rickets no longer exists.   But the fear and scariness doesn't stop there.

As a Childbirth Educator and doula, I am finding is an interesting though disturbing read.  It is one of those books where you are yelling at it at times.   Partly because of the stupidity of what has gone on throughout the history of birth.  But also party because I felt like it was SO negative.   I just would NEVER let a pregnant women read it, she might go sign up for an Elective Cesarean, because the overall tone of the book is birth is scary… complete with horrific stories to prove it.  

I did enjoy the section on the Dawn of Doctors, where I learned more about some inspired care providers and their journeys.   Grantly Dick-Read who wrote Childbirth Without Fear and Fernand Lamaze were of extra interest to me as a Hypnobabies Instructor, because I learned that their teachings included a lot of mind over body thinking, as well as the importance of hospital staff supporting and believing in the moms ability to have a comfortable birth.   Having been a mom using hypnosis during my 2^nd birth, totally comfortable and the nurses telling me at least 3 times, as soon as your water breaks it is going to hurt… not surprisingly when my water broke it did start to hurt.   When I had my 3^rd baby, I used Hypnobabies and had a Bubble of Peace to protect me from the negativity of those around me, including the hospital staff.  

I learned about Emanuel Friedman who watched birthing women and came up with the bell curve of the length of typical stages of birth.   He is horrified on how that information is used today.  "We found an average.  People think the average is what women should fall upon.   That is clearly not true but rather a broad range of normality beyond which a potential abnormality may or may not exist.  These abnormalities are not in themselves justification for forceps or cesarean…   It doesn't' mean she's doing so badly that you have to do something terrible to her. That is being abused." 

Hi,

I hope by now that everyone is well into our September book pick: Birth, The Surprising History Of How We Are Born, by Tina Cassidy! 

Our teleconference call with Kris Holloway was excellant and we are looking forward to our time with Tina Cassidy at the end of this month.  I know you do not want to miss it!  We will begin our discussion of the book mid-month.

Right now in NE Indiana it is gloomy and rainy.  Hmmm.........I think it's a good time to read!

Warmly,

Jillian De Moya