-----Original Message-----
From: BOLDBookClub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BOLDBookClub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tammi
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:26 PM
To: BOLDBookClub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BOLDBookClub] Videos of your hospital birth

How about the ACOG Opinion (1998):  Liability Implications of Recording Procedures or Treatments.  "Recording solely for the purpose of patient memorabilia or marketing is not without liability – the Committee strongly discourages any recording of medical and surgical procedures fro patient memorabilia.”  I remember when this happened – I was a new doula and couldn’t even believe that people were not being allowed to video record or take pictures of their own birth.  Would make for “evidence.”  Ugghhhh….

 

Tammi

 

 

~~~Midwife~~~

http://braegan.homeschooljournal.net/

http://www.naturalbeginnings.org

~~~The goats have no midwives. The sheep have no midwives. When the goat is pregnant she is safely delivered.

When the sheep is pregnant she is safely delivered. You, in this state of pregnancy, will be safely delivered.  Recited by the village midwives and elders among the African Yoruba

 

-----Original Message-----
From: BOLDBookClub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BOLDBookClub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michal
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 8:48 PM
To: BOLDBookClub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BOLDBookClub] Born in the USA

I am blown away by this book. Reading it, I think, "How can this be
happening here in our country?" but I know it is true because I
experience it with the volunteer work that I do with a local
hospital. The egos, the need for control are just overwhelming. I am
just starting the chapter on how to fix things. I hope there are some
good answers...

Michal

I am blown away by this book.  Reading it, I think, "How can this be
happening here in our country?"  but I know it is true because I
experience it with the volunteer work that I do with a local
hospital.  The egos, the need for control are just overwhelming.  I am
just starting the chapter on how to fix things.  I hope there are some
good answers...

Michal

I received this message and I'm passing it along.  It is a short
survery from the Coalition to Improve Maternity Services.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=563423173899

Michal

--- In BOLDBookClub@yahoogroups.com, "karen Brody" <karenbold@...>
wrote:
>
> PS: How are you doing? And your friend's family?
>

It's been a rough couple of weeks.  It still seems very surreal.
Thanks for asking :-)

Tammi,

I hadn't read that article until you posted it.  I don't know if the
quote was taken out of context, but it does sound uncharacteristic of
the articles I've read that Cassidy has authored herself.  I thought
her most recent op-ed "Cut and Run" in the NY Times was quite good.
(read it on her blog at http://tinacassidy.blogspot.com/)

With all of her writing - article in Boston Magazine, articles for
Boston Globe, NY Times and even in her book - my feeling is that
she's getting the message out that there's something out of kilter in
our maternity system to women who might not otherwise be getting that
message until it's too late.

I have seen her speak in person twice - once at a workshop and once
on her book tour, and for full disclosure here...I'm in Boston &
organizer for BOLD in Boston (application sent in the other
day...yeah!) and I invited Tina Cassidy to be on our talk-back panel
and she accepted.

Full disclosure over, I really did like her book.  I found it to be a
facinating read. I agree with you Karen, women might not exactly be
pumped up for giving birth after reading it, but maybe hopefully it
will make them question and research for themselves the options out
there.

I do think there's a lot of value to knowing the history of how we
got to hospital births & OB's being the "norm", and all the ways
women have been seriously violated in the name of "progress".

I definitely considered the place she was in when writing the book
when I was reading it.  As she writes about in the book, she began
writing the book shortly after her own unexpected c/s with her son.

Ok, back to our reguarly scheduled programming - Born in the USA :-)

Cathleen


--- In BOLDBookClub@yahoogroups.com, "karen Brody" <karenbold@...>
wrote:
>
> Well...I think Tina Cassidy's book is a strong contribution to
birth, but I
> definitely see Tammi's point. I almost put the book down after the
chapter
> where Cassidy talks about some women being too tiny to push out a
baby. I
> did my shouting at the book routine...
>
> Yet...she also points out that midwives and doulas are a strong
antedote for
> women to deal with the "not so perfect for pushing a baby out"
bodies that
> they may have.
>
> It felt like Cassidy approached her book, and birth, like a
journalist,
> looking for answers through facts rather than reaching into her gut.
>
> But, having said that, it's an interesting book on the history of
birth. I
> don't think it's an inspiring book for the average woman to read
and when
> she's finished she won't necessarily feel pumped up to give birth.
>
> My two cents!
>
> Karen
>
> PS: I LOVED Sheila Kitzinger's book, Birth Crisis, and I will give
you all a
> little heads-up that this is most likely our next book! Jillian is
> contacting Sheila Kitzinger about having a teleconference with us
at the end
> of April! It's shocking and honestly I don't know if it's for
consumers, but
> it's essential reading for anyone who is a maternity care provider
and
> perhaps a healing book for women who have had a traumatic birth.
>
>
> On 2/7/07, Tammi <tammi@...> wrote:
> >
> >    Hi all J
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't know if you've seen Cassidy quoted, and even if it was
taken out
> > of context, you will not hear her words come from my mouth – if a
mom wants
> > to push for 12 hours and she and baby are ok, then good for that
momma.
> > It's her journey – no one else's.  I'm a bit turned off that she
is included
> > in the BIRTH audio documentary.  I guess I need to hear it and
what she has
> > to say, but the clips I've seen her quoted have been anything but
empowering
> > for women, including this doozy, perpetuating the myth that small
women
> > cannot birth healthy normal weight (8# is quite normal) babies:
> >
> >
> >
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/local/states/californ
ia/15929243.htm
> >
> > The best I've heard yet was from a woman who pushed for 12
hours," she
> > says.
> >
> > It was a home birth, in which the expectant mother was hoping for
a
> > vaginal birth after cesarean.
> >
> > "Twelve hours, no epidural, nothing," Cassidy recalls. "She was a
tiny
> > person -- under 5 feet tall, with a pre-pregnancy weight of 88
pounds -- and
> > she had an 8 pound baby."
> >
> > Cassidy shakes her head in disbelief. "She's telling me and I'm
thinking,
> > 'Why would you do that to yourself? It's just not going to work
for you.
> > It's OK, you're tiny.'"
> >
> >
> >
> > I would never recommend her book if quotes like this are in it.
Now Born
> > in the USA – I'm trying to get all the local doulas to make it
required
> > reading of their doula clients.  Especially since they are
serving the moms
> > choosing hospital brith.  If someone has read her book and there
are no
> > disempowering words of wisdom from Cassidy in it like the above,
please let
> > me know.  I'm so turned off from her and her book right now.
> >
> >
> >
> > And so TURNED ON to Born in the USA!  J  Tammi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

I'm about 3/4 of the way done.

I think this book should be bundled with Tina Cassidy's "Birth: The
Surprising History of How We Are Born" and should become required
reading for all women :-)

Cassidy's book provides the history lesson, and Wagner gives a hard-
core look at where we're at today, which isn't pretty, is it? (Amazon
is bundling Born in the USA with Birth Crisis by Shelia Kitzinger,
which I haven't read but also looks good.)

I think the change in our culture has to come both from women demanding
change, no longer hiring OB's to provide their prenatal and birth care,
and change in the educational system for doctors.  All those OBs-in-
training are seeing are dysfunctional births, and that's the cycle they
are perpetuating.  Of course if we'd stop hiring them, the later part
wouldn't be as necessary.

We're bred to trust doctors.  And it's a cycle I'm trying to stop with
my children.  I've caught myself a few times when my DS was taking
medicine that it was because "the doctor said you needed to" and was
sorry as soon as those words were out of my mouth.  I immediately
revised what I've said and make it clear that's it's what Mommy and
Daddy think it will help you feel better.  As they get older (only 3
1/2 and 1 right now) we will encourage them to understand that you're
paying a doctor/other care provider for an *opinion* and it's your
responsibility to research and decide whether that's the best choice
for you.  And that you're always entitled to a 2nd, 3rd, or
4th....*opinion*.

Cathleen

Karen,

Is it ok to post your message to other lists (I'm specifically thinking
ICAN support group, Mothering.com, and a local doula/CBE/midwife group
here in MA)?

Thanks!

Cathleen

Hi Everyone!

So, January is GONE!  I can hardly believe it.  Well, I'll go ahead
and be the first to jump in there and say..........I haven't finished
the book yet!  But, I am ON IT!  Anyone else have this problem?

If you're done, inspire us slow-goers with your thoughts!  Or, please,
don't leave me out there alone if you're not done either!

Warmly,

Jillian

Hi Tammi,

I did check with Marsden Wagner, and the book has not been
translated as of yet.  You brought up a good point though.  What
about immigrants who come to this country and think they are getting
the best care in the world because this is "AMERICA"?  Are you all
done reading, or would anyone like to comment on this?

Very interesting thought......

Jillian De Moya


- In BOLDBookClub@yahoogroups.com, "Tammi" <tammi@...> wrote:
>
> Any idea if the book has been translated, especially for our
unknowing
> immigrants who come here thinking America hospital services are
offering the
> best care for pregnant women and babies?  I'm having more and more
> immigrants (especially Spanish speaking) coming into care and want
to know
> what good references I can have from there.  Any idea?
>
>
>
> Thanks so much, Tammi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~Midwife~~~
>
> http://braegan.homeschooljournal.net/
>
>  <http://www.naturalbeginnings.org>
http://www.naturalbeginnings.org
>
> ~~~The goats have no midwives. The sheep have no midwives. When
the goat is
> pregnant she is safely delivered.
>
> When the sheep is pregnant she is safely delivered. You, in this
state of
> pregnancy, will be safely delivered.  Recited by the village
midwives and
> elders among the African Yoruba
>

Hello everyone!

As I type this I can't believe that time has flown by the way that it
has and tomorrow is February 1st already!  We will begin our
discussion of the book of the month, "Born In The USA" tomorrow.

I would also like to announce the date of the tele-conference call
with the author, Dr. Marsden Wagner.  It will be on Sunday, March 4th
at 5:00 pm EST.  There are six slots, so first come, first serve.  Be
sure to email me to reserve a spot!

Well, lets jump in.  Any takers to get our discussion rolling?  Likes,
dislikes, questions etc?

BOLDly,

Jillian De Moya

I am so excited to read this book. And thanks Jillian for explaining
my situation. I hope everyone is doing well and happy new year!

Rebecca






--- In BOLDBookClub@yahoogroups.com, "jillianjourneys"
<joyfulbirthjourneys@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Happy New Year! As some of you may know, our BOLD Book Club
> coordinator, Rebecca, is a student midwife. Starting this January
> she is working at a hospital in the New York City area doing an
> intensive internship and has had to stop volunteering with BOLD. I
> eagerly asked Karen if I could coordinate the book club as I'm an
> avid reader and feel passionate about people educating themselves
> about childbirth. So I am now your BOLD Book Club coordinator! (I
> also co-coordinate BOLD 2007 with Kathleen Hickey)
>
>
> We know it's now January 4 and we have not communicated to you our
> new book club pick for January-February, but that's only because
> Karen was hesitant to pick another hard cover book again but  she
> kept coming back to the same book so has decided to pick it as our
> next book. Marsden Wagner's new book, Born in the USA: How a
Broken
> Maternity System Must be Fixed To Put Women and Children First is
a
> powerful, courageous book about the politics of childbirth in the
> United States. I really am excited about this book and think that
> you will really enjoy it too.  It is truly a timely book!
>
> Here's a description of the book:
>
>
>
> In this rare, behind-the-scenes look at what goes on in hospitals
> across the country, a longtime medical insider and international
> authority on childbirth assesses the flawed American maternity
care
> system, powerfully demonstrating how it fails to deliver safe,
> effective care for both mothers and babies. Written for mothers
and
> fathers, obstetricians, nurses, midwives, scientists, insurance
> professionals, and anyone contemplating having a child, this
> passionate exposé documents how, in the most expensive maternity
> care system in the world, women have lost control over childbirth
> and what the disturbing results of this phenomenon have been. Born
> in the USA examines issues including midwifery and the safety of
out-
> of-hospital birth, how the process of becoming a doctor can
> adversely affect both practitioners and their patients, and why
> there has been a rise in the use of risky but doctor-friendly
> interventions, including the use of Cytotec, a drug that has not
> been approved by the FDA for pregnant women. Most importantly,
this
> gripping investigation, supported by many troubling personal
> stories, explores how women can reclaim the childbirth experience
> for the betterment of themselves and their children.
>
>
>
>
> Born in the USA tells:
> * Why women are 70% more likely to die in childbirth in America
than
> in Europe
> * What motivates obstetricians to use dangerous and unnecessary
> drugs and procedures
> * How the present malpractice crisis has been aggravated by the
fear
> of accountability
> * Why procedures such as cesarean section and birth inductions are
> so readily used
>
>
>
>
>
> We are thrilled that we will have a teleconference call with the
> author, Dr. Wagner, the end of February. One change that we have
> made this year is that we will no longer have the authors online
> with us in our discussions.  We hope this will provide a better
> forum where ideas can flow and everyone has the opportunity to
> freely voice their thoughts.  At the end of our discussions, we
will
> then be able to talk to the author in person!
>
> As usual, we'll  read the book during the month of January and
then
> take the month of February to discuss it online before talking
with
> Dr. Wagner.
>
> I look forward to a lively discussion! If you have any questions
> feel free to contact me at my private email (not on the listserv!).
>
> Be BOLD,
> Jillian
>