BBS_Open_Discussion : Messages : 18607-18636 of 18636

Laurie,

It is good to hear of someone actually using the Four Absolutes in their AA program of action. Bill Wilson wrote (I think it was in a letter) that he surreptitiously inserted them into Steps 6 & 7 when he changed the six step program to twelve. You certainly received a wonderful answer from God. I liked that in your prayer you asked for no definite result, instead just for God’s will.

I believe God is more apt to help us when we completely let go, as you obviously have done. Thanks for your important message.

Bob S.

4D website: http://www.4dgroups.org

======================================================================

From: BBS_Open_Discussion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:BBS_Open_Discussion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Bolin
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 2:43 PM
To: BBS_Open_Discussion@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [BBS_Open_Discussion] A time for sober reflection!

Dear Friends of the 4-D groups,

Prayer, My Higher Power, The 4 Absolutes, and Financial Amends

I have a story to tell. I got 2 years sobriety on December 9th. I like other alcoholics in recovery have lots of wreckage of the past including numerous financial amends. I also do not know how to budget or manage money. My role model growing up was my mother in hysterics every time the bills came and she cried at the kitchen table. I thought she was just weak. So my reaction during my drinking days was to throw away bills and run away from financial obligations. So I would usually just move or mooch off some guy.

Anyway, fast forward to my sobriety as of now. This past week I was served an eviction notice and told by my landlord that my electricity would be disconnected if I didn't change the account to my name. (All in paper notices) so I prayed hard about the situation before calling my landlord. I actually will get paid on Tuesday and will have some of the money so I made an arrangement with the landlord. He told me I need to grow up, which I do. After that I was contacted by a friend I haven't talked to in 13 years who is sending my $500 to help out my situation. That was a really fast answer to my prayer. When I prayed I didn't ask "please give me money" I just asked my Higher Power to watch over me in this situation and to give me strength to do the right thing.

Now to the electric company: I knew I had a past due account owing $1000 so that's why I've been dreading talking to them about a new account in my name. I thought of faking my ID or social security number. But on the way to the power company my Higher Power put in my mind that I need to pay attention to the 4 absolutes, mainly the honest/truth absolute. So I prayed again before I went to the electric company. I gave my real social security number and took blame for the past due account. The lady at the counter didn't even have to open an account for me but she did when I was honest about my drinking and bad money management in the past and I asked if I could pay it off some way. She not only opened my new account but gave me a payment arrangment of $208 a month for 5 months and the account balance on my old account will not accrue fees.

Something told me to post this story on this group. I know this program really works and amends really work and honesty is the best way to deal with things. I feel lke today is a miracle! I know usually we share in a general way but maybe this story might help someone else struggling with financial amends.

Laurie B.

Wendover, Utah

(435) 241-8549

DOS 12/9/07

#18635

From: Jon Radcliffe <jon_radcliffe@...>
Date: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:39 pm
Subject: A

jon_radcliffe

Offline

To my fellow friends in recovery. I just wanted to take an opportunity to wish all my American Brothers and Sisters a very Happy New Year and particularly wanted to express my gratitude to this group.

I just happened, earlier this year to stumble across this group(God put it here more to the point), and requested if I could join. Since this time, I have continually been inspired and grown, through the words of wisdom that have been shared by members of this group.

It is difficult to find the words to express my thankfulness and appreciation to you all, and particularly to Jim, Robert and a couple of others who carry this message with such passion, through their own experiences. I truly feel blessed to learn from you, the true meaning of this god given program and my own recovery has certainly been enlightened and has grown.

As my own sponsor often reminds me and I without doubt get the same from this group, is the continual thought , "What would God want you to do ?"

I thank you for your wisdom, your passion, your undiluted message and most of all, the love you express through what you graciously share on this site.

Have a wonderful New Year, I look forward to the next year learning through this group and may God bless you and keep you - until then.

With love in fellowship,

Jon R

#18634

From: Laurie Bolin <rubylaurie@...>
Date: Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:42 pm
Subject: Re: A time for sober reflection!

laurie_anne_b

Offline

Dear Friends of the 4-D groups,

�

Prayer, My Higher Power, The 4 Absolutes, and Financial Amends

�

I have a story to tell.� I got 2 years sobriety on December 9th.�I like other alcoholics in recovery have lots of wreckage of the past including numerous financial amends.� I also do not know how to budget or manage money.� My role model growing up was my mother in hysterics every time the bills came and she cried at the kitchen table.� I thought she was just weak.� So my reaction during my drinking days was to throw away bills and run away from financial obligations.� So I would usually just move or mooch off some guy.�

�

Anyway, fast forward to my sobriety as of now.� This past week I was served an eviction notice and told by my landlord that my electricity would be disconnected if I didn't change the account to my name.� (All in paper notices) so I prayed hard about the situation before calling my landlord.� I actually will get paid on Tuesday and will have some of the money so I made an arrangement with the landlord.� He told me I need to grow up, which I do.� After that I was contacted by a friend I haven't talked to in 13 years who is sending my $500 to help out my situation.� That was a really fast answer to my prayer.� When I prayed I didn't ask "please give me money" I just asked my Higher Power to watch over me in this situation and to give me strength to do the right thing.�

�

Now to the electric company: I knew I had a past due account owing $1000 so that's why I've been dreading talking to them about a new account in my name.� I thought of faking my ID or social security number.� But on the way to the power company my Higher Power put in my mind that I need to pay attention to the 4 absolutes, mainly the honest/truth absolute.� So I prayed again before I went to the electric company.� I gave my real social security number and took blame for the past due account.� The lady at the counter didn't even have to open an account for me but she did when I was honest about my drinking and bad money management in the past and I asked if I could pay it off some way.� She not only opened my new account but gave me a payment arrangment of $208 a month for 5 months and the account balance on my old account will not accrue fees.�

�

Something told me to post this story on this group.� I know this program really works and amends really work and honesty is the best way to deal with things.� I feel lke today is a miracle!� I know usually we share in a general way but maybe this story might help someone else struggling with financial amends.

�

Laurie B.

Wendover, Utah

(435) 241-8549

DOS 12/9/07

�

#18633

From: joe m <doorgunner_joe@...>
Date: Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:10 pm
Subject: Re: A time for sober reflection!

doorgunner_joe

Offline

Look at your hands for a moment. These are God's hands. They're on loan to you, and to me. We are given a physical instrument through which to reach out to our world with the presence and power of God. “Let your light so shine” that the glory of God be made known through the evidence of your being. That's the invitation that we have, and the great gift, of being God's expression in the world." --Mary Manin Morrissey

Dear Friends of the 4D,

The last day of each year is a time for sober reflection. I need to ask: What worthwhile ingredients from this past year should I allow into year 2010? I do have a choice!

Numero Uno, is the fact that our Richmond, Indiana 4D, Group has been ‘teaching’ the 12 Steps in this city since 1989; this marks 20 full years, or count more than 1,000 meetings! One could conclude that we have completed the entire 13-week study series over 80 times! Thank you God! Please allow us to continue.

It is important to remember that our group does not teach, or even indicate that, “Thou must do it this way under pain of drunkenness,” or, “This is the only way that you should work the 12 Steps.” NO! -- I repeat, NO! We are simply an “informational” group. That is to say that we merely point out the obvious essential Big Book ‘program of action’ elements for the newcomers. This was a practice in the earlier days of AA, especially in the mid-west.

There are many other God given gifts from the past which I hope will become manifest into this coming year, but I will conclude at this point.

What is the main past ingredient that you hope to bring into year 2010?

Happy New Year!

Bob S.

Bob Stonebraker

212 SW 18th Street

Richmond, IN 47374

(765) 935-0130

4D website: http://www.4dgroups.org/

Art Studio: bobstonebraker. com

#18632

From: "Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@...>
Date: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:31 pm
Subject: A time for sober reflection!

rstonebraker...

Offline

Dear Friends of the 4D,

The last day of each year is a time for sober reflection. I need to ask: What worthwhile ingredients from this past year should I allow into year 2010? I do have a choice!

There are many other God given gifts from the past which I hope will become manifest into this coming year, but I will conclude at this point.

What is the main past ingredient that you hope to bring into year 2010?

Happy New Year!

Bob S.

Bob Stonebraker

212 SW 18th Street

Richmond, IN 47374

(765) 935-0130

4D website: http://www.4dgroups.org

Art Studio: bobstonebraker.com

#18631

From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:06 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #39

sottovoice

Offline

*** Our next post will be on Monday January 4th - HAPPY NEW YEAR! ***

Good morning all!

There are a great many places that have marked AA's early history. The Mayflower Hotel in Ohio is one. Towns Hospital - 293 Central Park West at 89th Street in Manhattan is another. (Coincidentally I once lived half a block down 89th Street from there). Stepping Stones was the home in Bedford Hills, NY in Westchester County, just north of New York City, where Bill and Lois lived. They moved there in 1941. I was fortunate enough to meet Lois there in 1980. She passed on in 1988. Stepping Stones has a website at www.Steppingstones.org or make an appointment to see it with the director of the place. Another place is Bill's birthplace in East Dorset, VT. The Wilson House ~ www.wilsonhouse.org ~ has been fully restored. A former pigeon of mine, Dean M. of Hampton Bays, Long Island did service as the assistant manager of the place from 1995 until he passed from our sight and hearing on April 8, 2008. Rooms are available to stay in for a reasonable cost. Dinners are served family style and the food is great.

Bill and Lois are buried nearby. One of the most moving experiences is to go to Bill and Lois' grave and read the touching notes and see the pictures of children left there by those expressing undying gratitude to Bill's work.

Page 164 - Paragraph 2 is a place where people will lift something out of context in an attempt to prove a spurious point. "Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only a little." Some people seize upon this to mean that the instructions outlined in the book are optional. (I wrote an article on this topic which was published in the April 2002 edition of The Grapevine entitled "Spiritual Kindergarten" by Jim K. of Manhattan - a copy of it is located in the "Files" section at the BBS home page). What the first 100 knew only a little about was the spiritual experience. They had the answer to recovering from alcoholism. Keep in mind that Bill was sober only four years at the time the book was written. The word "suggestive," in this context, means "a starting point," or "a beginning." It means "an introduction to spiritual principles." AA is but a means to the end of living a spiritual life. Our lives aren't meant to be lived in AA but outside of it.

"The answers will come if your own house is in order. But obviously you cannot transmit what you haven't got." The "2 step" trap -- to carry the message effectively you need to have a message to transmit.

"Abandon yourself to God as you understand God (Steps 1, 2 and 3). Admit your faults to Him and your fellows (Steps 4, 5, 6, and 7). Clear away the wreckage of the past (Steps 8 and 9). Give freely of what you find and join us (Steps 10, 11, and 12). We shall be with you in the Fellowship of the Spirit, (The Fellowship of God) and you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny. May God bless you and keep you until then." In his classic style, Bill sums up at the end.

With our next post, we will wrap up our study cycle with Dr. Bob's Story.

We will then post the Study outline/instructions.

On Tuesday we will begin a new study cycle.

Jim

Weekend Big Book Studies with Jim & Dave - visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Big_Book_Seminars

For a weekly chuckle visit:

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#18630

From: "Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@...>
Date: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:19 am
Subject: Further proof that God is a man!

rstonebraker...

Offline

Our 4D friend from Indy offers this indisputable proof! -- Bob S.

=================================================

God—the eternal force that emanates, animates and binds everything into existence!!

I have proof positive that God is a man! For only a man would leave a loaded weapon in a room of unattended children and tell them not touch it. A woman would understand the natural curiosity of children makes this an irresistible temptation, and her intuition would have her remove all unsafe items from her children’s playroom. If God were a woman, she would have never placed the “tree of knowledge” in the “Garden of Eden”, and definitely would not have pointed out to her children that it was bad for them and it should not be touched. So not only is God a man, he appears to be an alcoholic who is guilty of felonious neglect of a minor, child endangerment and abandonment. Charges have been filed in Marion County Probate Court! Smile….god invented Rule 62….luv ya…..jmo

#18629

From: Jacquie Cason <casonjacquie@...>
Date: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:14 am
Subject: Re: Step Two - Coming to believe

casonjacquie

Offline

Hello.....my Higher Power has a very healthy ego(every gift owned)...doesn't care who gets the credit or who takes the blame and is able to delegate...maybe to Angels?

Happy New Year w/Love and Light and Balance,

Jacquie Cason DOS 08/11/1992

JACQUELINA CASON

From: Robert Stonebraker <rstonebraker212@...>
To: BBS_Open_Discussion@yahoogroups.com; MuncieAA@yahoogroups.com; Indyfourthdimension@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 1:23:08 PM
Subject: [BBS_Open_Discussion] Step Two - Coming to believe

On page 12 we read Ebby suggesting to Bill Wilson that he choose his own conception of God.

Although my personal concepts of God come and go from as many directions as the wind, this wonderful Power never disappears, or becomes unwilling to keep me sober. Here are a few, hopefully non-contradictory, concepts that remain in my emotional and mental vocabulary:

* The glue that holds the universe together

* That which is to busy to go around existing just so I can view Him.
* That which insists life continue to evolve.
* That which insists on balance in the universe
* That which caused the Big Bang and other such beginnings.
* That which has no center or perimeters.
* That which Keeps drunks sober if they follow His will.

Bill Wilson was obviously very close to God, for otherwise how would he have knew that God was a HIM!

But what ever God is, it is more than I will ever understand or put into meaningful concepts. Faith is my only answer.

Bob S.

4D website: www.4dgroups. org

#18628

From: Peter Helms <helms.peter@...>
Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:18 pm
Subject: Re: Step Two - Coming to believe

helms.peter

Offline

Thanks Robert i really needed this...peter

On page 12 we read Ebby suggesting to Bill Wilson that he choose his own conception of God.

* The glue that holds the universe together

4D website: www.4dgroups. org

#18627

From: "Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@...>
Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:23 pm
Subject: Step Two - Coming to believe

rstonebraker...

Offline

On page 12 we read Ebby suggesting to Bill Wilson that he choose his own conception of God.

* The glue that holds the universe together

4D website: www.4dgroups.org

#18626

From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:01 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #38

sottovoice

Offline

Good Morning,

Chapter 11 - "A Vision for You" begins on page 151.

If you have been following along with the study from the beginning, you have learned much about Bill Wilson's writing style. Let's recount what we've learned for those who have recently joined us.

There are several aspects of Bill's writing style which are pretty consistent throughout the book. First, Bill will make the same point in several different ways. Second, he tries not to repeat the same words over and over. Third, he sums up at the end of each chapter.

It is the third point that is pertinent for our discussion of Chapter 11. This is the final chapter in the main text of the book. We will see how he will "sum up" or recap what has been covered earlier.

The first three pages cover the introduction and the earlier parts of the book, disclosing to the reader what he may find. At the bottom of page 153 and through page 164, Bill recounts the beginnings of AA and gives a very general outline of AA's brief history. Bill doesn't identify the places or people who were instrumental in the beginning, although all of the essentials are there: Towns Hospital, Dr. Silkworth, The Mayflower Hotel, Akron Ohio, Dr. Bob, Bill Dotson (AA #3), Cleveland, New York, etc.

With our next post we will look at some of the high points of the history and look closely at page 164. Then we'll finish up with Dr. Bob's Nightmare.

Have a great day!

Jim

Weekend Big Book Studies with Jim & Dave - visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Big_Book_Seminars

For a weekly chuckle visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Friday_Chuckle

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#18625

From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:24 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #37

sottovoice

Offline

Good Morning

!

We are beginning at the bottom of page 145. Reading through to page 148, there are many ideas that have been adopted by industry in general that are beneficial to helping alcoholics in the workplace.

Paragraph 2 on page 148:

"It boils down to this: No man should be fired just because he is an alcoholic. If he wants to stop he should be afforded a real chance."

In evidence today are the multitude of EAP programs that direct alcoholics to recovery.

Read to the bottom of page 149 - last paragraph:

"Today I own a little company (The Honest Dealers Association). There are two employees (Jimmy B and Bill) who produce as much as five normal salesmen. But why not? They have a new attitude, and they have been saved from a living death. I have enjoyed every moment spent in getting them straightened out."

That was the little automobile parts business that Hank ran and that Bill and Jimmy B. worked at. I don't suppose there was any exaggeration there? <wink>

The last chapter before going on to Dr. Bob's story and returning to the beginning of the book is Chapter 11 - "A Vision For You" on page 151. We'll begin there with our next post.

Have a great day!

Jim

Weekend Big Book Studies with Jim & Dave - visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Big_Book_Seminars

For a weekly chuckle visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Friday_Chuckle

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#18624

From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:19 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #36

sottovoice

Offline

Good morning everyone!

Chapter 10 - To Employers begins on page 136. This chapter was written by Hank Parkhurst. Hank was one of the early New York members and a business partner of Bill's - they were in the business of forming a service station buying cooperative and selling auto parts through the Honest Dealers Association. Hank was also an officer in "Works Publishing," the entity formed to publish the Big Book. In April of 1940 Hank got drunk which was to be a source of great difficulty since he controlled a significant amount of stock in Works Publishing.

The reading from pages 136 to 140 centers on the loss of capable employees. The point is also made that it can be difficult to make employers understand the nature of the malady. Page 138 at the end of paragraph 2: "The only answer I could make was that if the man followed the usual pattern, he would go on a bigger bust than ever. I felt this was inevitable and wondered if the bank was doing the man an injustice. Why not bring him into contact with some of our alcoholic crowd? He might have a chance. I pointed out that I had had nothing to drink whatever for three years, and this in the face of difficulties that would have made nine out of ten men drink their heads off. Why not at least afford him an opportunity to hear my story? 'Oh no,' said my friend, 'this chap is either through with liquor, or he is minus a job. If he has your willpower and guts, he will make the grade.'" At the top of page 139 that individual got drunk again.

At the end of page 139 the employers are instructed to look within their own organizations and to try to identify those employees who are alcoholic. The point is made that there are many talented and worthwhile employees who can be helped and can return to usefulness if they are given a chance to recover. A generalized approach with an employee is discusssed through page 145.

We'll return to this chapter with our next post, and begin at the last paragraph on page 145.

Jim

Weekend Big Book Studies with Jim & Dave - visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Big_Book_Seminars

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#18623

From: "Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@...>
Date: Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:47 am
Subject: Step two - conclusion or decision?

rstonebraker...

Offline

Step Two) Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

An old monk* told us that for years his faith suffered because he could not fully accept all the seemingly illogical Bibical mysteries, but then abour fifty years ago, he gave up on coming to a conclusion of the mind, and made a sincere decision of the heart to believe. Shortly afterward, the static stopped and has never returned. He is now 94 years old.

I think that Step two can be like that for us alcoholics.

Bob S.

· This was Fr. Matthew, from the Abbey of Gethsemani, Bardstown, KY

Please download our our 4d Twelve Step audio recording, “What Page Was That On?” on our website: www.4dgroups.org Got to ‘Weblinks,’ then ‘Audio Files.”

#18622

From: "Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:43 pm
Subject: Step Two is evidential

rstonebraker...

Offline

Reverend Sam Shoemaker inferred that Step Two is “evidential;” that is to say, listening to long term sober AA members who all claimed that some wonderful power was keeping them sober should be proof enough.

After a few weeks of sobriety I was absolutely terrified that I would get drunk. Was I willing to believe in whatever was keeping those fellow AAs sober? It seemed as though I had a choice; either to dismiss the evidence before me and get drunk, or become willing to believe and stay sober.

After due consideration I exclaimed: I believe! I believe! I believe!

I still do.

Bob S.

Merry Christmas.

Bob Stonebraker

212 SW 18th Street

Richmond, IN 47374

(765) 935-0130

4D website: www.4dgroups.org

Art Studio: bobstonebraker.com

#18621

From: Ted Bell <notusuallyright@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:50 pm
Subject: Re: Re: [Indyfourthdimension] Merry Christmas!

notusuallyright

Offline

Merry Christmas to all. It's a good day to visit the rehab.

From: soberfinn <soberfinn@...>
To: BBS_Open_Discussion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, December 25, 2009 2:12:20 AM
Subject: [BBS_Open_Discussion] Re: [Indyfourthdimension] Merry Christmas!

Thanks again to you, and to Jim K and Karen

And Merry Christmas to all

Paul S. aka soberfinn, recovered alcoholic

--- In BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com, "Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@ ...> wrote:
>
> I wrote: "Did you ever stop to think that if it wasn't for Christmas, we
> wouldn't have AA?"
>
> Then, Joe requested: "Please explain my friend."
>
> My answer: "The original name of the Oxford Group was 'First Century
> Christian Fellowship.' The OG members attempted to emulate the followers
> of that period. So, obviously, their working daily tenets and Four
> Absolutes came from 2000 years ago. Many of Bill Wilson's Big Book ideas
> came from this source, and especially the 12 Steps.. Here is a pathology from
> the Big Book:
>
> Page xvi - here you find five (or six) tenets from the OG.
>
> Page 263 (fourth edition) - here you find these principles set forth as a
> six step program.
>
> Page 59-60 - here are the 12 expanded steps. Let's look at their origins:
>
> Step One: Comes from drinking hooch! Plus, more is explained by Dr.
> Silkworth.
>
> Step Two: Much of this idea came from William James' book 'Varieties of
> Religious Experience,' plus, Ebby's talk with Bill Wilson on page 12. Also,
> let us not forget Reverend Sam Shoemaker's famous explanation: 'It's
> evidential.'
>
> Step Three: OG
>
> Step Four: OG
>
> Step Five: OG
>
> Steps Six & Seven: In a letter (I think it was) Bill has claimed to have
> inserted the essence of the Four Absolutes here.
>
> Step 8 & 9: OG
>
> Step Ten: OG
>
> Step Eleven: OG
>
> Step 12: The general idea of this step comes from the OG
>
>
>
> Of course, all AA history buffs know that the 1935 group at Dr. Bob's house
> were greatly influenced by readings from James, Paul, and Sermon On the
> Mount, from the Good Book.
>
>
>
> So, this is not theology; this is spiritual fact, directly from AA history.
>
>
>
> Bob S.
>

#18620

From: "soberfinn" <soberfinn@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:12 am
Subject: Re: [Indyfourthdimension] Merry Christmas!

soberfinn

Offline

Thanks again to you, and to Jim K and Karen

And Merry Christmas to all

Paul S. aka soberfinn, recovered alcoholic

--- In BBS_Open_Discussion@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Stonebraker"
<rstonebraker212@...> wrote:
>
> I wrote: "Did you ever stop to think that if it wasn't for Christmas, we
> wouldn't have AA?"
>
> Then, Joe requested: "Please explain my friend."
>
> My answer:  "The original name of the Oxford Group was 'First Century
> Christian Fellowship.'    The OG members attempted to emulate the followers
> of that period.  So, obviously, their working daily tenets and Four
> Absolutes came from 2000 years ago.   Many of Bill Wilson's Big Book ideas
> came from this source, and especially the 12 Steps. Here is a pathology from
> the Big Book:
>
> Page xvi - here you find five (or six) tenets from the OG.
>
> Page 263 (fourth edition) - here you find these principles set forth as a
> six step program.
>
> Page 59-60 - here are the 12 expanded steps.  Let's look at their origins:
>
> Step One: Comes from drinking hooch! Plus, more is explained by Dr.
> Silkworth.
>
> Step Two: Much of this idea came from William James' book 'Varieties of
> Religious Experience,' plus, Ebby's talk with Bill Wilson on page 12.  Also,
> let us not forget Reverend Sam Shoemaker's famous explanation: 'It's
> evidential.'
>
> Step Three:  OG
>
> Step Four: OG
>
> Step Five: OG
>
> Steps Six & Seven:  In a letter (I think it was) Bill has claimed to have
> inserted the essence of the Four Absolutes here.
>
> Step 8 & 9:  OG
>
> Step Ten: OG
>
> Step Eleven: OG
>
> Step 12:  The general idea of this step comes from the OG
>
>
>
> Of course, all AA history buffs know that the 1935 group at Dr. Bob's house
> were greatly influenced by readings from James, Paul, and Sermon On the
> Mount, from the Good Book.
>
>
>
> So, this is not theology; this is spiritual fact, directly from AA history.
>
>
>
> Bob S.
>

#18619

From: "Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:44 am
Subject: RE: [Indyfourthdimension] Merry Christmas!

rstonebraker...

Offline

I wrote: “Did you ever stop to think that if it wasn’t for Christmas, we wouldn’t have AA?”

Then, Joe requested: “Please explain my friend.”

My answer: “The original name of the Oxford Group was ‘First Century Christian Fellowship.’ The OG members attempted to emulate the followers of that period. So, obviously, their working daily tenets and Four Absolutes came from 2000 years ago. Many of Bill Wilson’s Big Book ideas came from this source, and especially the 12 Steps. Here is a pathology from the Big Book:

Page xvi – here you find five (or six) tenets from the OG.

Page 263 (fourth edition) – here you find these principles set forth as a six step program.

Page 59-60 – here are the 12 expanded steps. Let’s look at their origins:

Step One: Comes from drinking hooch! Plus, more is explained by Dr. Silkworth.

Step Two: Much of this idea came from William James’ book ‘Varieties of Religious Experience,’ plus, Ebby’s talk with Bill Wilson on page 12. Also, let us not forget Reverend Sam Shoemaker’s famous explanation: ‘It’s evidential.’

Step Three: OG

Step Four: OG

Step Five: OG

Steps Six & Seven: In a letter (I think it was) Bill has claimed to have inserted the essence of the Four Absolutes here.

Step 8 & 9: OG

Step Ten: OG

Step Eleven: OG

Step 12: The general idea of this step comes from the OG

Of course, all AA history buffs know that the 1935 group at Dr. Bob’s house were greatly influenced by readings from James, Paul, and Sermon On the Mount, from the Good Book.

So, this is not theology; this is spiritual fact, directly from AA history.

Bob S.

#18618

From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:45 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #35

sottovoice

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***Merry Christmas everyone! Our next post will be on Monday 12/28***

Good Morning everyone!

We're at page 128 of Chapter 9 - "The Family Afterward." The reading from here through the bottom of page 130 centers on, for lack of a better term, spiritual infancy. It's that period of time that many of us experience where we believe that we have found an oasis in the desert of an alcoholic life. It's roots may be in the spiritual experience, or simple and overwhelming gratitude. What this reading reveals is that, no matter what the circumstance, imbalance in life is not sustainable. Although the pendulum has swung from active alcoholism to over-zealousness in the spiritual realm what will happen, given time, is that we will become centered. Here our families are asked to allow us that period of time to become centered, to put our AA service work and spiritual lives into proper perspective with all of the other segments of our lives: work, family, home, service, etc. Step 10 is the primary tool to accomplish this desired result.

Beginning at the bottom of page 130 and reading through to the top of page 133 the text discusses family life, taking inventory within our families and developing a new attitude toward the alcoholic member. This is rooted in our new attitude as recovered alcoholics. Paragraph 2 on page 132: "Outsiders are sometimes shocked when we burst into merriment over seemingly tragic experience out of the past. But why shouldn't we laugh? We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others."

Continuing on to the following paragraph - "So let each family play together or separately, as much as their circumstances warrant. We are sure God wants us to be Happy, Joyous, and Free." Sounds like we get a glimpse of what God's will is for us. If we are careful when reading the Big Book we will find that much of God's will is revealed to us. It may be general in nature but it is there. If we're not "Happy, Joyous, and Free" we may be missing something in our spiritual lives.

The remainder of this chapter deals with the relationship of the alcoholic to his family, his health and sex relations. It tells us not to be shy about consulting physicians for they are here to help.

On page 135 there is a telling sentence - paragraph 1: "Seeing is believing to most families who have lived with a drinker." Our actions are far more revealing than our words, especially at home.

And, of course, the first three slogans:
First Things First
Live and Let Live
Easy Does It

Have a great day everyone!

Jim

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#18617

From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:31 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #34

sottovoice

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Good Morning all!

Today we will begin on page 122 - "The Family Afterward." The dynamics of a family that has endured alcoholism are skewed to the point where living together has become difficult, sometimes almost impossible. Written many years before Alanon and Alateen were formed, this and the preceding chapter attempt to steer us all--alcoholic or not--down the spiritual path.

Paragraph 3 on page 122 is a theme that is oft repeated throughout the book: "Cessation of drinking is but the first step away from a highly strained, abnormal condition." AA isn't a "not drinking club". Reading to page 127 the advice is offered to all--alcoholic or not--that patient striving is required to become free of the past and to grow into something better. Although we want results now, we must realize that it will take time to recover on all different levels.

On page 127, the first paragraph reminds us to be cautious about focusing on a single aspect of our recovery. "The head of the house ought to remember that he is mainly to blame for what befell his home. He can scarcely square the account in his lifetime. But he must see the danger of over-concentration on financial success. Although financial recovery is on the way for many of us, we found we could not place money first. For us, material well-being always followed spiritual progress; it never preceded." If we concentrate on our spiritual condition we will mend financially.

The following paragraph directs us to make our efforts under our own roofs. "Since the home has suffered more than anything else, it is well that a man exert himself there. He is not likely to get far in any direction if he fails to show unselfishness and love under his
own roof. We know there are difficult wives and families, but the man who is getting over alcoholism must remember he did much to make them so."

The underlying message here is about balance. An overemphasis on any single area creates imbalance. Those areas that are neglected suffer. Balance is something to be sought after. Over-concentration on finances, spirituality, meeting attendance, relationships, etc.,
at the expense of those other things that comprise this life will lead us to more difficulty. Remembering that life is lived outside of the rooms of AA is important.

With our next post we will start on page 128. The discussion will start with how the family reacts to a "stirring spiritual experience."

Thanks for participating!

Jim - The Into Action Group of Manhattan

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#18616

From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:26 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #33

sottovoice

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Good morning everyone!

Most of the comments on this chapter were written by my friend and co-moderator Karen-

"Chapter 8 - To Wives" begins on page 104. There are some historical facts that are very interesting. First, a trivia question: Who wrote this chapter? Most of us would immediately think Lois Wilson or Dr. Bob's wife, Anne Smith, but that wouldn't be correct.

Originally, Bill wanted Anne to write it. She had no interest in doing so. (Yeah, RIGHT! I can see, in my mind's eye, Lois jumping up and down saying "I'll do it! I'll do it!" and Bill saying "I don't think so!") Bill decided that he would write it himself. (No control issues there!)

Of course Al-Anon was formed in the early 1950's and became a society standing separate from AA. As an historical aside, it is interesting to note that spouses were very much involved with the alcoholic in the context of meetings at the very early beginnings of AA. This makes this chapter congruous when it is viewed from this historical perspective.

Since we play the role of the alcoholic, we must look at this chapter from that viewpoint. Here, we can examine the truth about how our active alcoholism affected our friends, our loved ones, our employers, our neighbors � or, to quote page 104, "nearly everyone bound by ties of blood or affection." This chapter helps us see ourselves while we were drinking through the eyes of others. It's not very comfortable.

While studying this chapter, we may experience profound realizations about how destructive our alcoholic behavior truly was. It is not unusual to spot more amends that are owed. The chapter drives home the realities and consequences of living selfishly. If we didn't get the message in Chapter 5 (pages 60 to 63), then we get a second chance to take a look at what it all means in Chapter 8. No other illness destroys relationships as does alcoholism. Pages 104 through the top of 108 describe those realities and consequences in detail.

From the bottom of page 108 through the middle of page 110 Bill describes the "four husbands" illustrating the progression of the disease. Then, on pages 110 through 114, practical suggestions are offered to help these husbands.

Starting at the bottom of Page 114, the focus switches. Suggestions are offered to spouses regarding their own character defects. One paragraph on page 116 really stands out for me:

"We have elsewhere remarked how much better life is when lived on a
spiritual plane. If God can solve the age-old riddle of alcoholism, He can solve your problems, too. We wives found that, like everybody else, we were afflicted with pride, self-pity, vanity and all the things which go to make up the self-centered person; and we were not above selfishness or dishonesty. As our husbands began to apply spiritual principles in their lives, we began to see the desirability of doing so, too."

The following paragraph is perhaps the most important in the chapter:

"We never, never try to arrange a man's life so as to shield him from temptation. The slightest disposition on your part to guide his appointments or his affairs so he will not be tempted will be noticed. Make him feel absolutely free to come and go as he likes. This is important. If he gets drunk, don't blame yourself. God has either removed your husband's liquor problem or He has not. If not, it had better be found out right away. Then you and your husband can get right down to fundamentals. If a repetition is to be prevented, place the problem, along with everything else, in God's hands."

For all of those who claim that there is no timeframe for doing the steps - here is an interesting snippet: "We do not like the thought that the contents of a book or the work of another alcoholic has accomplished in a few weeks that for which we struggled for years." From Paragraph 4 on Page 118. So the program is designed to work in a few weeks? Not a step a year or "a long slow recovery" - it does underscore that this process is meant to happen in a matter of *weeks and months * - not years!

This is from page 120, last paragraph. It mirrors paragraphs 1 and 2 on page 101. Remember what we have discussed throughout this study -- Bill will repeat important ideas in order to reinforce them to the reader. This is yet another example of this style of writing.

The chapters We Agnostics, To Wives, and To Employers all have something in common: you don't have to BE ONE to benefit from what is written!

With our next post we will continue with Chapter 9 - The Family Afterward.

Have a great day!

Jim

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#18615

From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:12 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #32

sottovoice

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Good morning everyone!

Let's go to page 100, last paragraph-

"Assuming we are spiritually fit, we can do all sorts of things alcoholics are not supposed to do. People have said that we must not go where liquor is served; we must not have it in our homes; we must shun friends who drink; we must avoid moving pictures which show drinking scenes; we must not go into bars; our friends must hide their bottles if we go to their house; we mustn't think or be reminded about alcohol at all. Our experience shows this isn't necessarily so."

"We meet these conditions every day. An alcoholic who cannot meet them, still has an alcoholic mind; there is something the matter with his spiritual status."

These are some very important lines in the Big Book. Having an alcoholic mind means we haven't had a spiritual awakening, we haven't changed sufficiently to have recovered from alcoholism. If, when confronted with circumstances where we obsess on the alcohol in a given setting, we should be taking our own inventories to reveal why this is so. Let's go back for a moment to page 84, at the bottom. The third sentance in the paragraph at the bottom says: "We will seldom be interested in liquor." Reviewing these 10th step promises we see that we have an entirely new state of mind when it comes to alcohol.

Returning to page 101 it is easy to see why we are on dangerous ground when we continue to obsess about alcohol when in such situations. Remember, we cannot defeat this obsession on our own, it can only be vanquished through a spiritual awakening that is THE RESULT of the 12 Steps.

So, to summarize: if we have had a spiritual awakening and are in fit spiritual condition we are able to go anywhere if our motives are thoroughly good. Does that mean someone can go to a strip club and drink cokes all night while indulging in a favorite defect of character? Probably not, because his motives are spiritually flawed. But can he go to a family gathering where there will be people who can drink with impunity? Most definitely, assuming he is in fit spiritual condition.

Let's turn to page 102 paragraph 2 - "Your job now is to be at the place where you may be of maximum helpfulness to others, so never hesitate to go anywhere if you can be helpful. You should not hesitate to visit the most sordid spot on earth on such an errand. Keep on the firing line of life with these motives and God will keep you unharmed."

What does this mean? Sometimes we may find ourselves in situations where there is alcohol involved. If we are not in fit spiritual condition our ability to be of maximum helpfulness to others is compromised. In fact our ability to seek and do God's will is hampered. You will also notice that this is the second place in the Big Book where "the firing line" is mentioned. Go back to The Doctor's Opinion, you'll see it there also (third paragraph on page xxviii). "The firing line" is another way of saying we must remain familiar with our alcoholism - "keep the memory green" so to speak. If we aren't carrying this message we may forget where we came from. We may even begin to think that we were just connoissuers of fine wines and beers. If we stay on the firing line of life we will never forget the type of drinkers we were.

"After all, our problems were of our own making. Bottles were only a symbol. Besides, we have stopped fighting anybody or anything. We have to!"

Alcoholism comes in people, not bottles and we have created most, if not all, of our own problems. This is the second place where we have stopped fighting - again, review pages 84 and 85.

With our next post we will go on to Chapter 8 - To Wives.

Have a great day!

Jim

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#18614

From: "Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@...>
Date: Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:11 pm
Subject: Step Two - Spiritual experience vs. spiritual awakening

rstonebraker...

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The Big Book doesn't tell us explicitly that a Spiritual Experience happens "suddenly," in contrast with the Spiritual Awakening which happens "slowly;" yet, this distinction is subtly and implicitly made clear with a combination of inferences and BB history.

Let's go to the history first. In 1934 Bill W. had a "sudden" upheaval (page 14) which he refers to as a Spiritual Experience, and at an earlier date (1931) Dr. Carl Jung describes Vital Spiritual Experiences as a phenomena which also happens suddenly (p. 26). After coming back from a slip Dr. Bob "suddenly" ceased to drink as did Bill Dotson a few weeks later. It would seem as though recovery was a "sudden" event. The phrase "Vital Spiritual Experience" became synonymous with said “sudden” phenomena.

The term "Spiritual awakening" was not used in the first 164 pages of the First Printing of the First Edition of our basic text. Step 12 even used the phrase "Spiritual Experience" in this printing! But not so in later printings of the First Edition (1941 second printing) -- this phrase was changed to "Spiritual Awakening! . . . and that is not all; in the back of later printings there appears a new Appendix which is now entitled "Spiritual Experience" (p. 569 - 3rd Ed) which tells us: "Yet it is true that our first printing gave many readers the impression that these personality changes, or religious experiences, must be in the nature of sudden and spectacular upheavals. Happily for everyone, this conclusion is erroneous." Now on this page -- at the top -- we find the seldom used heretofore phrase, "spiritual awakening."

Another point of interest: our first AA pamphlet (1940) entitled simply "A.A." used the term "spiritual experience" in Step 12 as late as 1943! So, the subtle definition of these terms is alive and useful:

Simple summary: A Spiritual Experience is fast and a Spiritual Awakening is slow.

Thanks for enduring a long explanation,

Bob S

4D website: http://www.4dgroups.org

Art Studio: bobstonebraker.com

#18613

From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:12 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #31

sottovoice

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Good morning everyone!

Chapter 7 starts on page 89. It is dedicated in its entirety to Step 12. "Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs." The bulk of this chapter is dedicated to carrying the message. Specifically from the beginning on page 89 to page 100. Why is this?

Let's put the text into historical perspective - During the period of time when the book was written there were about 60 to 100 members sober - this after 4 years of work. There were two basic centers of activity: New York which was intellectual/psychological, and Akron/Cleveland which were more evangelical in nature. When originally written the 12th Step said this: "Having had a spiritual experience as the result of this course of action, we tried to carry this message to others - especially alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs." Clearly the mindset is one of conversion, spreading the word. Chapter 7 was written with the idea that it was (a) good to increase our numbers and that (b) carrying the message is the way to do it. They also believed that the message wasn't one that required a "personality" to convey it. Certainly Bill and Bob weren't about to go on tour. This book was the perfect vehicle to carry the message. By 1940, even Bill was surprised at the success of the book in carrying the message.

When we read through these pages we see things that astonish us: We aren't convincing anyone that they need this program - we are demonstrating what it has done for us. We are attracting, not promoting. The assumption is that the alcoholic is ready to listen to the message. Page 94 - paragraph 1: "Make it plain he is not under pressure, that he needn't see you again if he doesn't want to." There is an old saying that isn't repeated often today - "AA is a program for those who want it, not necessarily for those who need it."

We will also be astonished at the length to which we are expected to go in helping others. Paragraph 1 on page 97 really details what is expected of us.

"Never avoid these responsibilities, but be sure you are doing the right thing if you assume them. Helping others is the foundation stone of your recovery. A kindly act once in a while isn't enough. You have to act the Good Samaritan every day, if need be. It may mean the loss of many nights' sleep, great interference with your pleasures, interruptions to your business. It may mean sharing your money and your home, counseling frantic wives and relatives, innumerable trips to police courts, sanitariums, hospitals, jails and asylums. Your telephone may jangle at any time of the day or night. Your wife may sometimes say she is neglected. A drunk may smash the furniture in your home, or burn a mattress. You may have to fight with him if he is violent. Sometimes you will have to call a doctor and administer sedatives under his direction. Another time you may have to send for the police or an ambulance. Occasionally you will have to meet such conditions." That's pretty involved!

The rehab community has taken much of this responsibility from us. Whether that is to the detriment of AA is for a separate discussion.

With our next post we will continue with Page 100 - last paragraph. We'll discuss what our spiritual awakening has done for us and what being a "recovered alcoholic" means in Alcoholics Anonymous.

Have a great day!

Jim

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#18612

From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:40 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #30

sottovoice

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Big_Book_Seminars

Good morning everyone!

We're at Page 86, paragraph 2: "On awakening let us think about the twenty-four hours ahead. ... we ask God to direct our thinking, especially asking that it be divorced from self-pity, dishonest or self-seeking motives." (This is one of the Step 11 prayers.) If we are indecisive: "Here we ask God for inspiration, an intuitive thought or a decision. (another prayer.) We relax and take it easy." We aren't obsessing on this, we think of something else knowing that the answers will come. Although we come to rely upon intuition we always check with others on those thoughts before putting them into action.

Yet another prayer: the Big Book 11th Step Prayer, page 87, paragraph 1: "We usually conclude the period of meditation with a prayer that we be shown all through the day what our next step is to be, that we be given whatever we need to take care of such problems. We ask especially for freedom from self-will, and are careful to make no requests for ourselves only." Here we are praying for the knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry it out.

What is the outcome? At the top of page 88: "We are in much less danger of (suffering from) excitement, fear, anger, worry, self-pity, or foolish decisions." Those foolish decisions caused me plenty of trouble!

Now, you'll notice that Bill was getting at what meditation meant for him: From the point of "On awakening..." to immediately before "We usually conclude the period of meditation..." we are engaging in meditation. We are thinking about what our actions will be, what we will face, how we will conduct ourselves.

I began my meditation life by quieting the endless conversation that I used to have with myself inside of my head, quite simply I was driving myself nuts! Then I started to direct my thinking to what I would face over the course of the day. Of course that meant that I had to change the way that I lived. I couldn't continue to live my life as if I was shot out of a cannon each morning. I received valuable suggestions: instead of waking up at the last possible second, perhaps if I got up a little earlier that may allow time for meditation, instead of waiting until the fuel gauge read "E" maybe I should fill up at 1/4 of a tank. Leaving a little earlier for work would help my state of mind in the morning, arriving less frazzled and on time. These and many other suggestions helped immensely. The result was it was easier to meditate in the morning and prepare for the day.

Today Karen gets up early -- around 4:30 am: "I take my dogs for a brisk walk in the peaceful darkness around my neighborhood, and take advantage of that time by communicating with God as I walk. When I get back home, I spend a little more time in study -- the Big Book, the Bible, or some other material of a spiritual nature. I spend time digesting the reading, seeing how it applies to my life, and quietly listening to what God wants to say to me through what I studied. Then, I spend time in prayer. I try to send a quick e-mail or two to encourage some of the newcomers online. After that, I drive to work and during that time I listen to spiritually-edifying CDs, tapes, or radio".

[Jim] After beginning my day with prayer and meditation, by the time I begin my day at the office, I have no fear because I always have a Partner who has all power. I put in the footwork and the results are up to Him. My life is no longer the "Chinese Fire Drill" that it once was. The 12 Steps have been the key.

Exercise: Go back and re-read the text and count how many times "think," "thought," "brains," "intuition," or their synonyms appear in the text. You may be surprised to learn how much "thought" goes into meditation!

In our next post we'll begin Chapter 7. Since "faith without works is dead," there is more action to come.

Have a good day!

Jim

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#18611

From: "Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@...>
Date: Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:36 pm
Subject: Post #28 - God' forgiveness in Step 11

rstonebraker...

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The precious paragraph on top of page 86 suggests: ‘After making our review, we ask GOD’S FORGIVENESS and ask what corrective measures should be taken.”

Before AA I spent a lot of times forgiving myself, by manufacturing excuses for my dismal behavior. After exiting from the drunk tank one more time I would say: “I forgive you Bob. It’s is not really your fault. It is just that the cops are picking on you.” This exercise in self-deceit resulted in a sort of temporary relief, but yet, that unpleasant and nagging hole in my stomach continued to grow. Perhaps my nose grew as well. This called for more drinking.

Self-forgiveness just made my life more miserable. But when I came to AA I learned to ask for GOD’S FORGIVENESS, and guess what? That uncomfortable queasy abdominal condition began to disappear! God can do for me what I cannot do for myself.

Bob S.

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#18610

From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:53 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #29

sottovoice

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Good morning all!

Have a good day!

Jim

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#18609

From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:46 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #28

sottovoice

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Good Morning everyone!

Although it seems like we're running through the Steps, keep in mind that in this chapter alone we cover steps 5 through 10 -- a mere 16 pages for 6 steps. No wonder this chapter is called Into Action!

We are at page 84, paragraph 2, and the beginning of Step 10.

"This thought brings us to Step Ten, which suggests we continue to take personal inventory and continue to set right any new mistakes as we go along." So, in Step 10, we continue the process of housecleaning/amends that we have embarked on in the Step 4 through 9 process. "We have entered the world of the Spirit." We have had a spiritual awakening or experience. "Our next function is to grow in understanding and effectiveness."

This is the first of the continuing growth steps. In the past, Steps 10, 11, and 12 were called Maintenance Steps. Although maintenance is part of the idea we really need continued growth through Steps 10 - 12. "It should continue for our lifetime." A daily 10th Step, an integral part of our lives - that's the idea. "Continue to watch for selfishness, dishonesty, resentment, and fear." Sounds like a 4th Step doesn't it? "When these crop up we ask God at once to remove them." Sounds like what we have done in Steps 6 and 7. "We discuss them with someone immediately (Step 5, right?) and make amends quickly if we have harmed anyone." That sounds like our actions in Steps 8 and 9 to me. What is our code? "Love and tolerance is our code."

In this short paragraph outlining the 10th Step we have touched upon Steps 4 through 9. We are continuing the process on a daily basis that we began when we did Steps 4 through 9. If we are thorough in our 10th Step there is likely to be no need to repeat any of Steps 4 through 9.

Another group of promises, the Step Ten Promises, appears at the bottom of Page 84 - last paragraph: "And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone- even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned." Can we hide behind "insanity" any longer? Still "sick"? Are we "crazy"? No, not in respect to alcohol. We have been restored to sanity and are no longer the victim of the mental obsession that dooms us to drink. That is a miracle to me! "If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. ... We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. ... Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. ... This is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition." It sounds to me that we shouldn't be fighting booze if we have gone through this process. Are we white knuckling it? Then, perhaps, we haven't practiced the program as presented. Are we thinking about a drink frequently? Are we tempted to drink? We must go back and review what we have done; there is a flaw somewhere. Have we been entirely honest? "Have we tried to make mortar without sand? ... Have we held on to some of the worst items in stock?"

Some of the greatest miracles of sobriety are made possible through the practice and application of the 12 Step process in our lives. It is these miracles that separates Alcoholics Anonymous from everything else out there. These miracles are possible for each and every one of us. But these same miracles are only possible by following the program as presented in the Big Book. Once we decide to "work our own program" we cannot expect the benefits of this message.

With our next post we'll continue our discussion on Step 10 on page 85, paragraph 1.

Have a Great Day!

Jim

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#18608

From: "Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@...>
Date: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:43 am
Subject: Step Two - "Came to believe . . ."

rstonebraker...

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Step Two) Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

I often wonder how many drunks refused to return to AA meetings after reading Step Two, “Came to believe . . .” from the pull-down blind on the clubhouse wall. How many have marched out lamenting that they didn’t believe in that “God stuff!?” Of course, being brand new, they have no way of knowing that the “outline” on the wall is not the real directions for the AA program of action – it is simply an outline; sort of like the ingredients-only for a chocolate cake recipe.

I ask, what can I do for the ones who might feel the same, yet stay with us on a thin thread? Well, here is something we like to point out at our 4D groups. We ask this question to the group: “How is it that an atheist, agnostic and true believer can do a Third Step, followed by Steps 4,5,6,7,8 & 9 and live in the spirit of Steps 10,11&12, and each of them can stay sober just as well as the other?

One might ask: How could that Be???? -- Why, the atheist and agnostic don’t even believe! How could they even do a Third Step?

The answer is on the first full paragraph of page 46. It tells us: “We find that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and express even a WILLINGNESS to believe in a power greater than ourselves, we commenced to get results . . . “ [emphasis by yours truly]. The atheist or agnostic does not have to believe, he or she simply has to be WILLING to believe!

Question: How does one become willing?

Answer: By drinking enough hooch!

After all, how can a drunkard pay much attention to his good-keen-intellectual-alcoholic-mind when it repeatedly told them to go out and get drunk? Besides a successful Step Three is not done with the head; it is done with the heart. STEP THREE IS NOT A CONCLUSION OF THE MIND, IT IS A DECISION OF THE HEART!

See! Ole Zot is not yet willing – he wants to philosophize !

Bob S.

4D website: www.4dgroups.org

Art Studio: bobstonebraker.com

#18607

From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:04 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #27

sottovoice

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