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#18584 From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:19 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #13 sottovoice
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Good Morning and welcome back!

Today we are at Chapter 4 - We Agnostics, Page 44.

We should start by defining some terms. "Agnostic" is comprised of two parts: "A" which is the Greek prefix for "Without" and "gnostic" which is "Knowledge." With this in mind our definition of "Agnostic" is: Without Knowledge of God.

Although used interchangeably, "agnostic" and "atheist" mean two very different things. To be "Atheist" is to claim that there is no God, as opposed to being without knowledge of God (agnostic).

How many times have we seen lists of questions that will allow you to diagnose your own alcoholism? Ten, twenty, fifty question each? Starting at paragraph 1 on page 44, we find that there are two questions:

Question 1: "If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or

Question 2: "if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic."

Reading through to the top of page 45 several powerful statements are made:

"Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly."

What does that mean? What does that tell us about willpower? About human resources (Fellowship) alone? About our ability to win in hand to hand combat with the alcoholic obsession?

At the top of paragraph 1: "Lack of power, that was our dilemma (Powerlessness). We had to find a power by which we could live, and it had to be a POWER GREATER THAN OURSELVES. Obviously. But where and how were we to find this Power?"

Now we come to the purpose of the Big Book and the desired result of the AA program:

"Well, that's exactly what this book is about. Its main object [and the object of the AA Program] is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself WHICH WILL SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM (emphasis added)."

Let's turn back for a second to the foreword to the first edition. The second sentence says the following:

"TO SHOW OTHER ALCOHOLICS PRECISELY HOW WE HAVE RECOVERED IS THE MAIN PURPOSE OF THIS BOOK." (This sentence was written in ALL CAPS in the first edition of the book).

To recover from alcoholism, we need to find a Power greater than ourselves which will solve our problem. This book has all of the directions necessary to bring about permanent recovery from alcoholism, which is our common problem. The answers are within the text and throughout the coming weeks we will continue to delve into the solution.

One of the things I was thinking about regarding this chapter is the name "We Agnostics", not "The Agnostics" - I mean, it's almost if they assumed that everyone was an agnostic. Anyone care to explore why they named this chapter the way they did?

With our next post we will continue on Page 46. Have a great day!

Jim

Weekend Big Book Studies with Jim & Dave - visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Big_Book_Seminars

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#18583 From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:31 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #12 sottovoice
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Good Morning all!

Paragraph 2 - Page 35: "Jim the car salesman" is example number 2 of alcoholic insanity. Reading through paragraph 3 on this page: "We told him what we knew of alcoholism and the answer we had found. He made a beginning."

"Making a beginning" means he had completed the first three steps. "His family was re-assembled, and he began to work as a salesman for the business he had lost through drinking."

There is a situation ripe for a resentment. "All went well for a time, but he failed to enlarge on his spiritual life." He didn't continue on with the rest of the program - Steps 4-12. He got drunk again, and here's how, as recorded on Page 36 paragraph 1:

"I remember I felt irritated (resentful) that I had to be a salesman for a concern I once owned. I had a few words with the boss..." (expressing his resentment no doubt!) He continues in this paragraph to be sane, but watch out!

Next paragraph - all italics in the book. The insane thought: "SUDDENLY THE THOUGHT CROSSED MY MIND THAT IF I WERE TO PUT AN OUNCE OF WHISKEY IN MY MILK IT COULDN'T HURT ME ON A FULL STOMACH."

The insane idea was followed by action. Paragraph 4: "Thus started one more journey to the asylum (treatment center) for Jim... HE HAD MUCH KNOWLEDGE ABOUT HIMSELF AS AN ALCOHOLIC (which did him no good whatsoever). YET ALL REASONS FOR NOT DRINKING WERE EASILY PUSHED ASIDE IN FAVOR OF THE FOOLISH (insane) IDEA THAT HE COULD TAKE WHISKEY IF ONLY HE MIXED IT WITH MILK!"

Page 37: "Whatever the precise definition of the word may be, we call this plain insanity. How can such a lack of proportion, of the ability to think straight, be called anything else?"

This is where the Big Book defines the "insanity" of Step 2 as the state of mind that precedes the first drink.

Our next example starts at the bottom of page 37, paragraph 4: "The Jaywalker." Read it through to the end of the second paragraph on the
following page. Although it seems ridiculous it is a fine example of our state of mind.

Our last example is "Fred the Accountant". Go to page 39, paragraph 2. At the bottom of the page: "Fred would not believe himself an alcoholic, (Step 1) much less accept a spiritual remedy (Step 2) for his problem."

Reading through to the end of this paragraph at the top of page 40 it is clear that he also believes in self-knowledge. He tells what happened beginning at paragraph 3 on page 40. Almost immediately he is wrestling with the mental obsession.

Page 41, paragraph 1 - Here is the insane idea: "I went to my hotel room and leisurely dressed for dinner. AS I CROSSED THE THRESHOLD OF THE DINING ROOM, THE THOUGHT CAME TO MIND THAT IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A COUPLE OF COCKTAILS WITH DINNER (and return to the mental hospital). THAT WAS ALL. NOTHING MORE."

Next paragraph "...I HAD MADE NO FIGHT WHATEVER AGAINST THE FIRST DRINK." Self knowledge fails again. He clearly demonstrates that we have no effective mental defense against the first drink.

Bill's summary, last paragraph on page 43: "Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in rare cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power."

This is a very important point. This means that we can have all the self knowledge we can get but still drink. It also means that human power, our own or others (i.e., the fellowship), will not help us. Finding God will.

With our next post we start Karen's favorite chapter in the Big Book: Chapter 4, "We Agnostics" on page 44.

Have a great day!

Jim

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#18582 From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:17 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #11 sottovoice
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Good morning and welcome back everyone!

We're at Page 30 - Chapter 3, "More (Truth) About Alcoholism". This is where we will discuss, in depth, the state of mind that preceeds the first drink.

Let's take the time to examine what "insanity" means in this context: less than whole; not necessarily crazy, but rather an inability to see the truth in life. "Sanity" on the other hand means with a complete or whole mind -- an ability to see the truth in life. "No person likes to think that he is bodily or mentally different from his fellows." This is a truth most of us had been unwilling to accept. Now here is the real insanity: "The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker." This is the great lie that we pursue; this is the mental obsession. To accomplish this we try a myriad of different formulas with the same result. An inability to see the truth in life? - you bet! "The persistence of this illusion (untruth) is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death." Next paragraph - "The delusion (untruth) that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed." Non-alcoholics don't break out in handcuffs when they drink. They are able to metabolize alcohol where the alcoholic is unable. On pages 32 to 43, four examples of the state of mind that preceeds the first drink will be illustrated. Bill's writing style is one where the same point will be made repeatedly to reinforce that idea. It is important to note that he is spending an entire chapter on Step 2's insanity. It is very important that we understand the state of mind that precedes the first drink - the insanity of alcoholism. Paragraph 2, page 32 - Example #1 is "A Man of Thirty." The points Bill brings up are these: "Once he started he had no control whatever." Using will power he quit but here was the insane idea: "Then he fell victim to the belief which practically every alcoholic has - that his long period of sobriety and self-discipline had qualified him to drink as other men." This man was dead by the next paragraph. At paragraph 1 on page 33 Bill utilizes his other literary device - he summarizes: (this is the "Pickle theory") ...once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. "Commencing to drink after a period of sobriety, we are in a short time as bad as ever. If we are planning to stop drinking, there must be no reservation of any kind, nor any lurking notion that someday we will be immune to alcohol." You can make a pickle out of a cucumber but the process cannot be reversed. Page 34, paragraph 2 - Here is the paragraph which discusses the efficacy of using willpower to stop drinking. The cunning, baffling and powerful nature of our disease usually torpedoes any effort based on willpower. In our next post, we will start out with the second of the four examples "Jim the Car Salesman" and we'll begin on page 35 - paragraph 2. Have a great day! Jim

Weekend Big Book Studies with Jim & Dave - visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Big_Book_Seminars

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#18581 From: Michael in New York <rhinebeck2007@...>
Date: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:03 pm
Subject: Re: Surreptitious Step Twelve-ing rhinebeck2007
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One of those little "coincidences" we so often experience. I was born in Santa Monica, CA and lived most of my life there and in California.

I am now a transplant from California myself. I cannot speak for other areas of the country other than California and New York State, but I know around here in mid-state New York the "meeting after the meeting" is almost nonexistent. And, like you, I find this one of the signs or symptoms of the weak cup of coffee AA that is now so prevalent.

I have been a member of two groups in the past that practiced this meeting after the meeting. New comers were approached after the meeting and invited to attend. There the talk focused on recovery, with those attending sharing bits of their own ESH and other tidbits about alcoholism as they experienced it and what they had to do to recover, etc.

AA today seems to me more of a social club, not unlike the Rotary or Kawanis. If there is any socializing it is usually at monthly anniversay meetings where folks receive coins for length of sobriety. It also seems to be more of a program based upon group therapy principles of talking about ourselves and our troubles in meetings.

Visualize Whirled Peas

--- On Tue, 11/17/09, Robert Stonebraker <rstonebraker212@...> wrote:

From: Robert Stonebraker <rstonebraker212@...>
Subject: [BBS_Open_Discussion] Surreptitious Step Twelve-ing
To: Indyfourthdimension@yahoogroups.com, MuncieAA@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 10:46 AM

When I was new, one of the important “actions,” that Mike mentioned, was going to coffee shops after the meetings. This was THE PRACTICE, at least in Santa Monica, whether after a daytime or nighttime meeting.   The discussions were usually about the 12 Steps, Traditions, AA History, “How ‘ya doing/feeling today?,” or “What’s up?” Or “What’s next?”

One time (1975) I was taken to Figaro’s Coffee House, in Beverly Hills, where I was told to write down and then pray for (out loud!) all the people I hated . . . and I did so in front of all those strangers, all of which I imagined were watching me intently. Those particular AAs that I clung in those days were really serious - and so was I! In other words we were not simply “pastime-ing” like what I call ‘barbershop talk.’ No! We talked recovery and sobriety. This was very helpful for me.

I often wonder whether this wonderful after-the-meeting spirit still prevails out in the Los Angeles area.   I know it does not here in Richmond, Indiana, where I now live. Most members simply go right home after the meeting, but if we do go to a coffee shop the talk centers around sports-page, workplace or politics; but sobriety related subjects seem sort of off-base.

I seldom join in this sort of thing; if I do I am (quoting Henry David Thoreau) I am like a “trout in milk.”   If I wanted to spend my time talking about shoes and ships and sealing wax and cabbages and kings, I would join the Eagles or the Moose Lodges, or simply go get a haircut.

Bob S.

4D website: www.4dgroups. org

Art Studio: bobstonebraker. com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= =========

From: Indyfourthdimension @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Indyfourthd imension@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:18 AM
To: Indyfourthdimension @yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Indyfourthdimensio n] Re: An AA paradox?

Generally speaking .... I think newcomers find it easier to wrap their arms (figuratively and mentally) around actions easier than concepts. If a newcomer with no spiritual background or, at best, a fractured relationship with a HP, hears "Pray and meditate." they're often dumbfounded. If they hear, "Go to a meeting everyday." they get it. They may not do it, but it's a simple action they can comprehend while still in the mental whirlwind of early recovery.

Mike

--- In Indyfourthdimension @yahoogroups. com, "Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@ ...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Mike,
> se
>
>
> It is important for me to keep in mind that outer influences like Bond &
> Lillard Whisky (my favorite) have not - never have been - my problem. Nor
> has changing my conscious attitude toward booze ever been my final solution.
> I had to allow God to change my subconscious inner being as well, if I am to
> accomplish an ongoing solution. Page 25 tells us; "We had to have deep and
> effective spiritual experiences which have revolutionized our whole attitude
> toward life, our fellows, and toward God's universe."
>
>
>
> Bob S.
>
> A bicycle can't stand alone; it is two tired.
>
>
>
>
>
> 4D website: www.4dgroups. org
>
> Art Studio: bobstonebraker. com
>
>
>
> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= =========
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Indyfourthdimension @yahoogroups. com
> [mailto:Indyfourthdimension @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: Indyfourthdimension @yahoogroups. com
> Subject: [Indyfourthdimensio n] An AA paradox?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "If I'm an alcoholic, then alcohol is not my problem. And conversely, if
> alcohol is my problem, then I'm not an alcoholic."
>
> In early sobriety my love/hate relationship with booze was baffling. Once
> out of rehab I could see the correlation between my boozing and its'
> consequences; jail, overdue bills, repo'ed car, etc. What I couldn't see was
> how it had dominated almost every other aspect of my life.
>
> My first sponsor, Don, gave me a couple of AA cassettes by Clancy I., a well
> known AA speaker. On one of these tapes Clancy made the statement above.
>
> Boy, was I confused! He postulated that if he ate strawberries and had a
> severe allergic reaction to them, then, by simply avoiding strawberries his
> life would be just fine. Consequently, he thought that if he simply didn't
> drink, his life would be just fine too. The problem was that when he quit
> drinking, his life got worse.
>
> That was my problem too. Life got more painful and unmanageable when I tried
> to quit. It was impossible for me to control the pain without my booze. It
> was only a matter of time before I was back on the bar stool.
>
> Clancy rung my bell again when he said the real enemy in this battle is NOT
> the booze, it's us; our thinking, perceptions and habits. He said that AA
> hadn't been successful by helping people to stop drinking. It's success is
> defined by helping people stay `quit'. AA gives us the 12 steps and lots of
> suggestions to help us change our actions which, in turn, changes our
> habits, and eventually it changes our thinking. When we change our thinking,
> our world changes and we learn how to live more fulfilling lives without the
> booze.
>

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#18580 From: "Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@...>
Date: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:46 pm
Subject: Surreptitious Step Twelve-ing rstonebraker...
Offline
Send Email

When I was new, one of the important “actions,” that Mike mentioned, was going to coffee shops after the meetings. This was THE PRACTICE, at least in Santa Monica, whether after a daytime or nighttime meeting. The discussions were usually about the 12 Steps, Traditions, AA History, “How ‘ya doing/feeling today?,” or “What’s up?” Or “What’s next?”

One time (1975) I was taken to Figaro’s Coffee House, in Beverly Hills, where I was told to write down and then pray for (out loud!) all the people I hated . . . and I did so in front of all those strangers, all of which I imagined were watching me intently. Those particular AAs that I clung in those days were really serious - and so was I! In other words we were not simply “pastime-ing” like what I call ‘barbershop talk.’ No! We talked recovery and sobriety. This was very helpful for me.

I often wonder whether this wonderful after-the-meeting spirit still prevails out in the Los Angeles area. I know it does not here in Richmond, Indiana, where I now live. Most members simply go right home after the meeting, but if we do go to a coffee shop the talk centers around sports-page, workplace or politics; but sobriety related subjects seem sort of off-base.

I seldom join in this sort of thing; if I do I am (quoting Henry David Thoreau) I am like a “trout in milk.” If I wanted to spend my time talking about shoes and ships and sealing wax and cabbages and kings, I would join the Eagles or the Moose Lodges, or simply go get a haircut.

Bob S.

4D website: www.4dgroups.org

Art Studio: bobstonebraker.com

===============================================================================================================

From: Indyfourthdimension@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Indyfourthdimension@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:18 AM
To: Indyfourthdimension@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Indyfourthdimension] Re: An AA paradox?

Generally speaking .... I think newcomers find it easier to wrap their arms (figuratively and mentally) around actions easier than concepts. If a newcomer with no spiritual background or, at best, a fractured relationship with a HP, hears "Pray and meditate." they're often dumbfounded. If they hear, "Go to a meeting everyday." they get it. They may not do it, but it's a simple action they can comprehend while still in the mental whirlwind of early recovery.

Mike

--- In Indyfourthdimension@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Mike,
> se
>
>
> It is important for me to keep in mind that outer influences like Bond &
> Lillard Whisky (my favorite) have not - never have been - my problem. Nor
> has changing my conscious attitude toward booze ever been my final solution.
> I had to allow God to change my subconscious inner being as well, if I am to
> accomplish an ongoing solution. Page 25 tells us; "We had to have deep and
> effective spiritual experiences which have revolutionized our whole attitude
> toward life, our fellows, and toward God's universe."
>
>
>
> Bob S.
>
> A bicycle can't stand alone; it is two tired.
>
>
>
>
>
> 4D website: www.4dgroups.org
>
> Art Studio: bobstonebraker.com
>
>
>
> ===========================================================================
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Indyfourthdimension@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Indyfourthdimension@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: Indyfourthdimension@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Indyfourthdimension] An AA paradox?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "If I'm an alcoholic, then alcohol is not my problem. And conversely, if
> alcohol is my problem, then I'm not an alcoholic."
>
> In early sobriety my love/hate relationship with booze was baffling. Once
> out of rehab I could see the correlation between my boozing and its'
> consequences; jail, overdue bills, repo'ed car, etc. What I couldn't see was
> how it had dominated almost every other aspect of my life.
>
> My first sponsor, Don, gave me a couple of AA cassettes by Clancy I., a well
> known AA speaker. On one of these tapes Clancy made the statement above.
>
> Boy, was I confused! He postulated that if he ate strawberries and had a
> severe allergic reaction to them, then, by simply avoiding strawberries his
> life would be just fine. Consequently, he thought that if he simply didn't
> drink, his life would be just fine too. The problem was that when he quit
> drinking, his life got worse.
>
> That was my problem too. Life got more painful and unmanageable when I tried
> to quit. It was impossible for me to control the pain without my booze. It
> was only a matter of time before I was back on the bar stool.
>
> Clancy rung my bell again when he said the real enemy in this battle is NOT
> the booze, it's us; our thinking, perceptions and habits. He said that AA
> hadn't been successful by helping people to stop drinking. It's success is
> defined by helping people stay `quit'. AA gives us the 12 steps and lots of
> suggestions to help us change our actions which, in turn, changes our
> habits, and eventually it changes our thinking. When we change our thinking,
> our world changes and we learn how to live more fulfilling lives without the
> booze.
>

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#18579 From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:39 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #10 sottovoice
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Good morning!

Turning our books to Page 25, lets look at paragraph 2:

"The great fact is just this, and nothing less: That we have had deep and effective spiritual experiences* which have revolutionized (changed) our whole attitude toward life, toward our fellows and toward God's universe. The central fact of our lives today is the absolute certainty that our Creator has entered into our hearts and lives in a way which is indeed miraculous. He has commenced to accomplish those things for us which we could never do by ourselves."

This is the solution and this is what the solution has done - we have changed our entire outlook. The asterisk (*) refers us to Appendix II which was added to the book after the first printing of the first edition to clarify the spiritual experience.

The text goes on - paragraph 2: "If you are as seriously alcoholic as we were, we believe that there is no middle of the road solution."

Let's review for a minute: "no middle of the road solution" - we aren't doing this thing "cafeteria style" or taking what we like and leaving the rest.

"We were in a position where life was becoming impossible, and if we had passed into the region from which there is no return through human aid, we had but two alternatives: One was to go on to the bitter end, blotting out the consciousness of our intolerable situation as best we could; and the other, to accept spiritual help. This we did because we honestly wanted to, and were willing to make the effort."

We're given two choices: Keep drinking or accept spiritual help. (Notice it isn't a choice of whether we will drink today or not! We do not have the power of choice in drink but we do have the power of choice in living spiritually.) Keep in mind - we are beyond human aid. So, will meetings everyday suffice? Therapy? Calling a sponsor everyday? Daily exercise? Yoga? Probably not.

Page 26 paragraph 1: The certain American business man was Roland Hazard. He worked with Dr. Carl Jung for an entire year.

It's interesting to note that Carl Jung was Roland's third choice - Sigmund Freud (a one time cocaine proponent) was too busy and Alfred Adler was too sick to work with him.

Jung tells him he is hopeless, (paragraph 3), but the doctor also knows what he needs (paragraph 3 on page 27):

"...here and there, once in a while, alcoholics have had what are called vital spiritual experiences... They appear to be in the nature of huge emotional displacements and rearrangements (change). Ideas, emotions, and attitudes which were once the guiding forces of the lives of these men were suddenly cast to one side, and a completely new set of conceptions and motives begin to dominate them."

Another description of the spiritual awakening from Dr. Carl Jung with "change" being the overall theme.

So, this chapter was aptly named "There is a Solution" and it has been hammered home to us that the solution is CHANGE. That change is the spiritual awakening. Go to the top of page 60 for a minute:

"12. Having had a spiritual awakening as THE result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs." (Emphasis is mine.)

The solution is a spiritual awakening (see Chapter 2), the result of these steps is a spiritual awakening (Step 12), so the steps are the solution! It's simple, it really is.

With our next post we will begin with Chapter 3 "More About Alcoholism" on page 30.

Jim

Weekend Big Book Studies with Jim & Dave - visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Big_Book_Seminars

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#18578 From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:16 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #9 sottovoice
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Good Morning!

We're on page 17 - Chapter 2 - "There is a Solution."

One of the literary devices that Bill employs on this page relates to events that are familiar to the reader. Remember that the book was published in 1939 when the Titanic was still a relatively recent memory for many.

"We are like the passengers of a great liner the moment after rescue from shipwreck when camaraderie, joyousness and democracy pervade the vessel from steerage to Captain's table. Unlike the feelings of the ship's passengers, however, our joy in escape from disaster does not subside as we go our individual ways."

"Steerage" was the bottom of the ship - the cheap seats - accommodations for lower-class passengers. Of course, the elite gathered by invitation only at the glamorous "Captain's table." The two extremes would never mix with one another. But to those who were miraculously rescued from the icy, terrifying ocean, these differences became nothing more than unimportant details.

Now here's the message -- the WARNING -- that Bill and the first one hundred wanted to pass on: "But that in itself would never have held us together as we are now joined."

So, what is it that binds us together? Look at the following paragraph:

"...we have discovered a common solution [a spiritual awakening through the 12 Steps]. We have a way out on which we can absolutely agree, upon which we can join in brotherly and harmonious action."

It is The AA Program of action that binds us together.

Page 20, paragraph 1:

"Doubtless you are curious to discover how and why, in the face of expert opinion to the contrary, we have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body."

The top of the next paragraph is the answer:

"It is the purpose of this book to answer such questions specifically."

In other words, we should be using this book as a text book or set of directions for in these pages we will be shown how to get, and stay, sober.

The following four paragraphs go on to describe the misconceptions of alcoholism held by the public at large and to describe people who have drinking problems but who are not real alcoholics: moderate drinkers and certain types of hard drinkers.

Page 21: "The real alcoholic" - In paragraph 1, Bill discusses the craving and lack of control that the real alcoholic develops. This repeats ideas presented in "The Doctor's Opinion."

Turn to page 22, paragraph 2 - Here the powerlessness and insanity of alcoholism is defined.

"What has become of the common sense and will power that he still sometimes displays with respect to other matters?"

In short, the human will is not operative. We drink, continuing to expect different results. Alcoholics do not have the power of choice � common sense and willpower are useless.

What is it that causes alcoholics to drink when they don't want to? Broken shoelace? Not enough meetings? Page 23, paragraph 1 -

"These observations would be academic and pointless if our friend never took the first drink, thereby setting the terrible cycle in motion. Therefore, the main problem of the alcoholic centers in the mind rather than in his body."

It is our struggle with the mental obsession that we will lose that causes us to drink; the circumstances themselves matter little.

Turning to page 24, we have italicized writing, used sparsely in the book, always used to emphasize a point �

"The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink."

The following paragraph - "There is the complete failure of the kind of defense that keeps one from putting his hand on a hot stove."

Let's pause here to consider this: How many times has this point, the lack of common sense regarding alcohol or the lack of defense against the first drink, been made?

We must also note that in the last paragraph on page 24 we are told that the alcoholic "...has probably placed himself beyond human aid... ." Is fellowship enough? Going to meetings morning, noon, and night? Talking to a sponsor everyday? Daily telphone calls?

Here's our situation: The mental obsession to drink is relentless; human power is ineffective against it. What will help us to overcome this obsession and prevent us from picking up the first drink?

More with our next post!

Jim

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#18577 From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:55 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #8 sottovoice
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Good morning everyone!

We're at the top of page 13 -

Bill went again to Towns Hospital to be separated from alcohol for the last time. This is at the beginning of December 1934; he had stayed drunk for a month after Armistice Day.

Bill's sobriety dates from December 11, 1934.

Paragraph 2 describes Steps 3, 4, 6 & 7:

"There I humbly offered myself to God, as I then I understood Him, to do with me as He would. I placed myself unreservedly under His care and direction (3). I admitted for the first time that of myself I was nothing; that without Him I was lost. I ruthlessly faced my sins (4) and became willing to have my new-found Friend take them away, root and branch (6, 7). I have not had a drink since."

The first sentance of paragraph 3 describes Step 5, and the remainder of paragraph 3 describes Steps 8 and 9, (also known as "restitution" by the Oxford Groups):

"My schoolmate [Ebby Thacher] visited me, and I fully acquainted him with my problems and deficiencies (5). We made a list of people I had hurt or toward whom I felt resentment (8). I expressed my entire willingness to approach these individuals, admitting my wrong. Never was I to be critical of them. I was to right all such matters to the utmost of my ability (9)." [Remember this sentence when we talk about amends in Chapter 6.]

Paragraph 4 - The first sentance describes Step 10 and the remainder of the paragraph goes into Step 11. The last paragraph on this page discusses the first part of Step 12:

"My friend promised that when these things were done, [not by osmosis I would guess], I would enter upon a new relationship with my Creator; that I would have the elements of a way of living which has answered all my problems." That sounds like a Spiritual Awakening, doesn't it?

But don't we want all our problems solved first? It is through that spiritual awakening that they are solved.

Page 14 - Bill's "White Light Experience" in found in paragraph 2. One of the reasons that Appendix II -"Spiritual Experience" was added to the book was that many people were confused; they thought that they had to have the same type of sudden transformation that Bill had.

The concept of "carrying the message" was born with Bill while lying in that bed in Towns Hospital (see paragraph 5). The last part of Step 12 is described in the following paragraph continuing to the top of page 15:

"My friend [Ebby Thacher] had emphasized the absolute necessity of demonstrating these principles in all my affairs." A bit of step 12 here! For us, that means not just in the rooms of AA, but everywhere.

Going on to paragraph 1 on page 15, Bill describes the dangers
of "...self-pity and resentment. This sometimes nearly drove me back to drink, but I soon found that when all other measures failed, work with another alcoholic would save the day." Perhaps there is something to this "carrying the message" stuff after all!

Bill went on to work with drunks and barely earning a living. Not only was he not making any money, he also had no success in sobering up drunks. Lois was working at Macy's. Ebby moved from Rev. Sam Shoemaker's Calvary Church mission and in with Bill and Lois at 182 Clinton St. in Brooklyn at this time.

It wasn't until May, 1935 (six months later) that Bill had any success at all -- he carried the message to Doctor Bob Smith -- aside from staying sober himself. More details are available in "AA Comes of Age," pages 52-77, which tells Bill's story in greater detail; how he met Bob, how they helped Bill Dotson (AA number 3) get sober, and the early days of what was to become AA.

With our next post we will begin Chapter 2 on Page 17: "There is a Solution."

Have a great day!

Jim

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#18576 From: "Robert Stonebraker" <rstonebraker212@...>
Date: Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:06 am
Subject: Why BB Step Study Meetings? rstonebraker...
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From our 4D Intro to the Big Book session:

One of the lessons we empathize at all our Richmond, Indiana, Big Book Step Study meetings, is that BB knowledge will not keep us sober. Many – make that most – long time sober members in my home town community have only a passing knowledge of Big Book directions, yet they stay happily sober year after year.

Indeed, certain early-timers found quality sobriety before the BB was written and didn’t use it even after it was written. For instance, here is an excerpt on this point from a very informative AA history book, -- New Wine, by Mel B. (p. 75):

“Bill D.[otson]’s contribution to AA was at the local group level, however, and he never had much confidence in the Big Book and other measures designed to carry the message to the world. His personal story, for example, did not appear in the first edition of the Alcoholics Anonymous, and was prepared only after Bill Wilson went to Akron, taped Bill D.s recollections, and then wrote the story.* It first appeared in the second edition, published a year after Bill D.’s death in 1954, and was retained in the third edition, published in 1976.”

So, why has my home group continued to teach the 12 steps from the BB, year in and year out? Because we believe it helps hold the AA program of action in place – it helps to keep things from going too far astray from the original ideas.

I don’t know about your AA meetings, but where I am from, group therapy prevails! Consequently, various and sundry outlandish and dangerous quotes (misquotes) continue to float into ears of susceptible new members. But, sincere BB Step Study Meetings help maintain a constant and helpful center of informational gravity that tends to nullify such idiotic group therapy chatter.

*Please note that Bill Wilson actually wrote Bill Dotson’s story. (It is titled Alcoholics Anonymous Number Three) Wow! I never knew that!

Bob S.

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#18575 From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:58 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #7 sottovoice
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Good morning everyone!

<Yesterday, Armisitice Day (Today's Vetran's Day) marks the 75th anniversary of the beginning of Bill's last drunk - which lasted for a month>

We're at the top of page 8, paragraph 1:

"No words can tell of the loneliness and despair I found in that bitter morass of self-pity. Quicksand stretches around me in all directions. I had met my match. I had been overwhelmed. Alcohol was my master."

That sounds like someone who has been defeated (Step 1). Bill leaves the hospital in September and stays dry until the beginning of November of 1934.

Armistice Day rolls around -- November 11, 1934. Bill took a bus to go golfing on Staten Island (see "AA Comes of Age," page 56). The bus he was riding on was involved in a fender-bender. Being the kind of guy Bill was, he and a new acquaintance left the bus to wait for the next one. Bill had already told his drinking experiences to this fellow: the allergy, his newly-found knowledge, etc.

They got on the next bus, and then disembarked at a country tavern near the golf course. His friend suggested a sandwich, so in they went.

Since it was Armistice Day, the bartender bought a round for the house. Bill threw back a drink without hesitation -- no effective mental defense whatsoever.

His new friend was mortified! "Are you crazy?!" he asked Bill in astonishment.

Bill answered, "Yes, I am."

Bill stayed drunk for another month after that escapade.

A couple of weeks later, Ebby Thacher, a boyhood friend, came to visit. Ebby's father was the mayor of Albany.

Ebby was a true drunk and was always in some scrape or another. He had been in trouble in Vermont.

Turns out Ebby had been painting a barn. (Honestly�how much trouble can someone get in painting a barn?) He was drunk and had just finished one side when a group of pigeons flew in and perched on top of the barn. The pigeons began to crap on the side of the barn, which infuriated Ebby. He got a shotgun and started firing away at the pigeons. The incident ended when Ebby got arrested.

Two men appeared at Ebby's hearing -- Roland Hazzard and Cebra Graves, who were members of the Oxford Group, a Christian religious group that sought to practice 1st Century Christianity. They appeared in court to prevent Ebby's commitment to a mental hospital (which is what they did to drunks in those days). They brought Ebby to the Oxford Group's NY headquarters at the Calvary Mission in Manhattan, where he got sober. (We're at the bottom of page 9.)

Ebby had been sober since September when he came to visit his friend Bill. In the last full paragraph of page 9:

"They told him of a simple religious idea [Step 2] and a practical program of action [in essence: Steps 3 thru 12]." Bill was already "...hopeless" (top of page 10).

Page 11, paragraph 3: "But my friend sat before me, and he made the point-blank declaration that God had done for him what he could not do for himself. ...He had admitted complete defeat." [Ebby had Step 1.]

Bill also has Step 1, and was beginning on Step 2 but there was a sticking point. Turn to page 12, paragraph 2:

"My friend suggested what seemed a novel idea. He said, "Why don't you choose your own conception of God?" This is the spiritual (rather than religious) message. This is the root of Step 3's "...as we understood Him." This is the great turning point. It is important to note that this was NOT the Oxford Group message. They had a very definite idea of a Christian God that they preached about.

In the next 2 paragraphs, Bill is able to take what would become Step 2. In paragraph 5, he begins to describe a spiritual structure that will be built throughout the remainder of the book:

"Upon a foundation of complete willingness I might build what I saw in my friend." In several places in the book, he will refer to this spiritual structure, painting a mental picture of recovery.

With our next post we will begin at the top of Page 13 - the last drink for Bill.

Have a great day!

Jim

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#18574 From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:12 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #6 sottovoice
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Good morning!

First, let�s answer the question posted yesterday concerning "Pot" in the Big Book. Here it is, on the old doggerel--the way Bill remembered it (an abbreviated version):

"Here lies a Hampshire Grenadier
Who caught his death
Drinking cold small beer.
A good soldier is ne'er forgot
Whether he dieth by musket
Or by pot."

Beer or ale was sold by the "pot" or small cask hundreds of years ago.

Bill's Story, page 1 - Bill's Story was put into the book as a means of identifying an example of the disease in action and to outline the spiritual experience.

Bill was born in East Dorset, Vermont in 1895 and was brought up primarily by his grandfather. You can visit the Wilson House in East Dorset and actually stay there. Bill and Lois are buried nearby.

Bill served in World War I. Then, during the Roaring 20�s he discovered Wall Street. The profit he speaks of on page 3 was a sizable sum in those days.

At this point in his story, he still has no clue of his alcoholism. He begins to have an inkling near the bottom of page 3:

"My drinking assumed more serious proportions, continuing all day and almost every night. The remonstrances of my friends terminated in a row and I became a lone wolf."

His friends questioned his drinking: that�s a sin in every alcoholic's book! Who needs them, right? He began to drink alone.

Bill continued to ride the bull market of the 1920's, but in 1929 the market crashed. He was disgusted by those jumping out of the windows of high finance. He was better than that -- he would just get drunk.

In the last paragraph of page 4, Bill is handed an ego puncturing:

"We went to live with my wife's parents." [At 182 Clinton Street in Brooklyn].

That would crush most egos and Bill had quite an ego when he made all that money. By now Bill has no illusion. He is a drunk existing to drink.

By the second half of page 5, Bill has lost all control. He knew he couldn't "take so much as one drink." He marshaled his willpower and what happened? He drank again! No effective mental defense against the first drink. Willpower is no match for the mental obsession to drink.

At the top of page 7, it is now the summer of 1933. Bill's brother-in-law is Dr. Leonard Strong. The hospital was Towns Hospital at 293 Central Park West (at 89th Street) on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. The Belladonna treatment refers to treatment with a drug derived from the nightshade family of plants and similar in effect to valium. Hydrotherapy is shower and bath therapy (you do get a clean alcoholic that way).

Providentially, Bill meets Dr. William D. Silkworth for the first time. Bill begins to gain an insight into his disease, and a little self-knowledge.

Did it work? During the summer of 1934, it did not. He got drunk again and it got even worse.

Bill is without hope�powerless. The miracle is just around the corner�

With our next post we'll start on page 8 with paragraph 1.

Have a great day!

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#18573 From: Jim K <jknyc@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:55 pm
Subject: Big Book Study - Post #5 sottovoice
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Good morning! Welcome back!

While we continue to study the forewords and the Doctor's Opinion, remember that we are using the 4th Edition. (The page numbering prior to Chapter 1 differs from the 3rd edition to 4th edition, since a foreword was added.) We're at paragraph 1, page xxiv, right after the first letter written by Dr. Silkworth.

"...the body of the alcoholic is quite as abnormal as his mind." This was a radical idea for 1935. The primary reason for the lack of signature by Dr. Silkworth was his reluctance to face his peers with such radical ideas. It was the Depression era, and Dr. Silkworth was lucky to have a position. No sense jeopardizing it. Further down, it is restated: "...any picture of the alcoholic which leaves out this physical factor is incomplete." Throughout the book, notice that Bill expressess certain points in several different ways to reinforce the importance or significance of that point. He does this with the allergy theory. Having an "allergy" means that we react abnormally to something. In our case, we react abnormally to alcohol.

(Some drunks claim to break out in handcuffs when drinking. Other claim to break out in strange spots � a strange town, a strange neighborhood, or jail.) Dr. Silkworth continues to expand on his ideas on page xxvi. Paragraph 2 is important here:

"...the action of alcohol on these chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy; that the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the average temperate drinker."

We are different than other people. Normal drinkers do not develop the phenomenon of "craving." We metabolize alcohol in a different way than the normal drinker. They don't experience the physical craving which comes after the first drink is taken. They can have the one or two that we, as a class, cannot. They don't suffer from the mental obsession that precedes the first drink. Paragraph 3, at the bottom, is where "...restless, irritable and discontented" comes from. Continuing at the top of page xxvii, "the sense of ease and comfort...drinks they see others taking with impunity" (without repercussions). Normal drinkers don't have this physical malady; they can drink "with impunity" and we can't. The last sentence of the top paragraph gives us an example of what we will see throughout the book � what the spiritual awakening is: "...unless this person can experience an entire psychic change (also known as a "spiritual awakening") there is very little hope of his recovery." Strong words. Over and over we will see that CHANGE is the hallmark of recovery from alcoholism. Turn to page xxviii. Silkworth describes five types of alcoholics: "the psychopaths who are emotionally unstable..." "There is the type of man who is unwilling to admit that he cannot take a drink..." "There is the type who believes that after being entirely free from alcohol for a period of time he can take a drink without danger." "There is the manic-depressive type..." "Then there are types entirely normal in every respect except in the effect alcohol has upon them." Here's the important point: "All these, and many others, have one symptom in common: they cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving...the manifestation of an allergy..." That first drink gets us drunk. With our next post, we'll start with Chapter 1 - Bill's Story. Until then think about this: there is only one place in the main text of the Big Book where the word "pot" appears. No, it isn't the kind you smoke. What is it's meaning? We'll reveal the meaning with our next post. Have a great day! Jim

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