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From redritzcl@... Wed Jan 07 05:02:42 2009
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From: RedRitzCL <redritzcl@...>
Subject: Re: [BBS_Open_Discussion] Re: hello everyone
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After reading the responses, I thought long and hard about making a response myself.
As a recovering alcoholic, sobriety date, April 14, 04, am I concidered an expert on the topic???? Good question since I don't have any degrees or anything, just ESH.
I asked myself, do I really give a damn about whether this is a disease or not? Does it really matter to me? Then journaling this morning, I realized that I was typing "dis-ease". For that is exactly what it is to me today. A "DIS-EASE".
Brighest Blessings,
Carol Lee
________________________________
From: seekerk ofpa <seekerk@...>
To: bbs_open_discussion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 9:17:39 PM
Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussion] Re: hello everyone
please do not take it personally. we like to jump up and down but know better then to take ourselves seriously.
ONe more mile
________________________________
To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com
From: medickat37@yahoo. com
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:01:45 -0800
Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone
Look I was asked a question about how I knew that alcoholism was considered a disease and I answered. There is no reason for any of you to jump down my throat about it.....
I know the Big Book just as well as any of you.
Sincerely, Kat
EMT-P
Flint, Michigan
--- On Tue, 1/6/09, les hymel <cajunles2000@ yahoo.com> wrote:
From: les hymel <cajunles2000@ yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone
To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 3:34 PM
OK we'll get to change the BB, 'cause it's wrong!
Les Hymel
678-936-1080
--- On Tue, 1/6/09, Kitty <medickat37@yahoo. com> wrote:
From: Kitty <medickat37@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone
To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 2:04 PM
as afr as I am concerned the issue over whether alcoholism is a disease or not was brought up and I have a source that says it is a dibilitating disease...It is not irrelevant at all.
Sincerely, Kat
EMT-P
Flint, Michigan
--- On Tue, 1/6/09, les hymel <cajunles2000@ yahoo.com> wrote:
From: les hymel <cajunles2000@ yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone
To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:58 AM
It's all "Outside Issues", therefore irrelevant
Les Hymel
678-936-1080
--- On Tue, 1/6/09, Kitty <medickat37@yahoo. com> wrote:
From: Kitty <medickat37@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone
To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:51 AM
Because I used to be a union stewart for a local hospital and I read the disabilities act due to having to defend a coworker.
Sincerely, Kat
EMT-P
Flint, Michigan
--- On Tue, 1/6/09, Christine Berger <colleenchris1966@ yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Christine Berger <colleenchris1966@ yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone
To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 10:42 AM
How do you know that??
--- On Tue, 1/6/09, Kitty <medickat37@yahoo. com> wrote:
From: Kitty <medickat37@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone
To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 10:33 AM
Alcoholism is covered under the American Disabities Act as a dibilitating disease.
Sincerely, Kat
EMT-P
Flint, Michigan
--- On Tue, 1/6/09, seekerk ofpa <seekerk@msn. com> wrote:
From: seekerk ofpa <seekerk@msn. com>
Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone
To: bbs_open_discussion @yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 10:26 AM
The AMA says it is a Disease. The program has not changed but what we know about alcoholism and the meetings have changed over the years. Also the idea of what is a disease and what is not has change. Back when the big book was written lou garics was not a disease either, neither was alzhimers or dozens of others that we now know are caused by physical, not mental causes.
Many peole do lean on the idea that since is is a disease they are helpless. I have another disease that leads me to a whole new way of thinking. In some ways it is like AA, and AA has helped me trememdously with it. I have to decided every time I eat or think about eating weather to be in pain and ill or not.
I now have the wisdom to know what was killing me so now I have the choice. I can not think my self able to do what I once did and think this time will be different. In that illness just one will make me sick and I just be on constatant watch because people love to hide it in food and think of it as a way to celabrate cheer. Funny thing is it also leads to mood swings, depression, brain fog and killing parts of my body. It is a disease and i choose to live in recovery not in Illness. Same with AA where do I want to hang my hat? Am I a sick and hopless drunk or have I found the solution?
Peresonaly I don't really care what lable anyone gives AA. If I follow the program as written in the big book I stay sober. It does not matter what I call it what matters is how I choose to act on it.
ONe more mile
________________________________
To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com
From: cappyquinlan@ bigpond.com. au
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:24:57 +1100
Subject: Re: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone
Your last para says what I wanted to say ,better .
I knew there was something amiss when I had grown tired of hearing that we have a disease and i thought this is being pushed too hard .Then I progressed to learning more AA history and found more in the Big Book ,but more importantly what wasnt there ,ie a definition of alcoholism saying it was a disease . The guys who were pushing it as a disease also didnt appear to be too hot on working the steps ,also gave me a clue to what was going on in the Fellowship as opposed to the Program .
Thank you .
Frank Quinlan
On 06/01/2009, at 3:24 PM, les hymel wrote:
Actually from what i read on the history, Bill wanted to call it a disease, however, he didn't want to offend the medical community, who didn't think it as a disease. Now I suppose u could consider alcoholism a form of spiritual disease, however the BB doesn't say it is one. In the forward to the 2nd edition on page xx(4th Ed.)/page xviii(3rd Ed), second paragraph-Alcoholic s Anonymous is not a religious organization. Neither does A.A. take any particular point of view, though we cooperate widely with the men of medicine as well as with the men of religion. Also the 10th tradiotio, particularly the long form.
Additionally I hear the argument that it wasn't classified as a disease until 1965. We have had 2 Editions printed since then and numerous printings of each edition. The internet as we know it only evolved in the 1980's or so and the 4th Edition has mention.
My main beef is that if I look at it as a disease, then I have something outside of myself to blame it on, as opposed to a spiritual disease within me, of which I alone am responsible for taking necessary action.
Les Hymel
678-936-1080
--- On Mon, 1/5/09, Mark Matta <mjamatta@yahoo. com> wrote:
From: Mark Matta <mjamatta@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone
To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 10:50 PM
Les,
Sorry, but I should have been more through and considerate in my questioning. I see the term malady used rather liberally in the text and see that as near, but not the same idas as the term disease. Bill was fond of using many different terms to make the same point or idea present for us. Where did the term or ideal of the "disease concept" originate? Les is most correct that the Big Book especially the Dr's Opinion does not use the word disease except one. Big Book, Page 64 where it describes the spiritual problems(disease) that evolve from resentments that many people alcoholic and non-alcoholic alike abound. I always heard the disease concept in meetings and after reading Les's comment I am having a few new thoughts on the matter. The disease term, may not be the way the author intended if he went to such lengths to use other terms with near complete exclusion of the word disease. My compliments on your timely and accurate statement.
Yours in Fellowship,
Mark Matta
724-219-3789
Pitcairn 12&12
3/24/97
-----Original Message-----
From: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com [mailto:BBS_Open_Discussion@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of les hymel
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 3:35 PM
To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone
Rhine I have to disagree with part of what u said. Nowhere in the basic text does it say that alcoholism is a disease
Les Hymel
678-936-1080
--- On Mon, 1/5/09, rhinebeck2007 <rhinebeck2007@ yahoo.com>wrote:
From: rhinebeck2007 <rhinebeck2007@ yahoo.com>
Subject: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone
To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 2:15 PM
From an opening statement at my home group.
"Here, we believe that everything you need to know about recovery from
the disease of alcoholism can be found in the Big Book of Alcoholics
Anonymous. Our message is that recovery is possible for anyone who
is willing to follow its suggestions and put the principles of the 12
Steps to work in their life."
I know this to be true. I also know that much of what one hears in the
rooms of AA today is either only partially true - hence false - or
absolutely false. It was not until I became "willing to follow its
suggestions and put the principles of the 12 Steps to work in my life"
that I was able to recover from alcoholism.
In Fellowship,
Mike W.
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:bookman old style,new york,times,serif;font-size:14pt"><div>After reading the responses, I thought long and hard about making a response myself. <br>As a recovering alcoholic, sobriety date, April 14, 04, am I concidered an expert on the topic???? Good question since I don't have any degrees or anything, just ESH. <br>I asked myself, do I really give a damn about whether this is a disease or not? Does it really matter to me? Then journaling this morning, I realized that I was typing "dis-ease". For that is exactly what it is to me today. A "DIS-EASE".<br><br>Brighest Blessings,<br>Carol Lee<br></div><div style="font-family: bookman old style,new york,times,serif; font-size: 14pt;"><br><div style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin: 5px 0px 5px 5px; padding-left: 5px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size:
12pt;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> seekerk ofpa <seekerk@...><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> bbs_open_discussion@yahoogroups.com<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 6, 2009 9:17:39 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE: [BBS_Open_Discussion] Re: hello everyone<br></font><br>
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<p>
please do not take it personally. we like to jump up and down but know better then to take ourselves seriously.<br>ONe more mile<br><br></p><hr id="stopSpelling">To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com<br>From: medickat37@yahoo. com<br>Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:01:45 -0800<br>Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone<br><br>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit;" valign="top"><div>Look I was asked a question about how I knew that alcoholism was considered a disease and I answered. There is no reason for any of you to jump down my throat about it.....</div>
<div>I know the Big Book just as well as any of you.<br><br></div>
<div align="center"><font color="#54466f"><strong> </strong></font> <font color="#aa4d4e"><strong> </strong></font></div>
<div align="center"><font color="#aa4d4e"><strong> </strong><em>Sincerely, Kat</em></font></div>
<div align="center"><em><font color="#aa4d4e"> EMT-P</font></em></div>
<div align="center"><em><font size="4" color="#0000ff"> <font color="#7f3f00" face="courier">Flint, Michigan</font></font></em></div><br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 1/6/09, les hymel <i><cajunles2000@ <a target="_blank" href="http://yahoo.com">yahoo.com</a>></i></b> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);"><br>From: les hymel <cajunles2000@ yahoo.com><br>Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone<br>To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com<br>Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 3:34 PM<br><br>
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<td valign="top">OK we'll get to change the BB, 'cause it's wrong!<br><br>
<div><font size="4">Les Hymel</font></div>
<div><font size="4">678-936-1080</font></div><br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 1/6/09, Kitty <i><medickat37@yahoo. com></i></b> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);"><br>From: Kitty <medickat37@yahoo. com><br>Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone<br>To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com<br>Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 2:04 PM<br><br>
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<td valign="top">as afr as I am concerned the issue over whether alcoholism is a disease or not was brought up and I have a source that says it is a dibilitating disease...It is not irrelevant at all.<br><br>
<div align="center"><font color="#54466f"><strong> </strong></font> <font color="#aa4d4e"><strong> </strong></font></div>
<div align="center"><font color="#aa4d4e"><strong> </strong><em>Sincerely, Kat</em></font></div>
<div align="center"><em><font color="#aa4d4e"> EMT-P</font></em></div>
<div align="center"><em><font size="4" color="#0000ff"> <font color="#7f3f00" face="courier">Flint, Michigan</font></font></em></div><br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 1/6/09, les hymel <i><cajunles2000@ yahoo.com></i></b> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);"><br>From: les hymel <cajunles2000@ yahoo.com><br>Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone<br>To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com<br>Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:58 AM<br><br>
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<td valign="top">It's all "Outside Issues", therefore irrelevant<br><br>
<div><font size="4">Les Hymel</font></div>
<div><font size="4">678-936-1080</font></div><br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 1/6/09, Kitty <i><medickat37@yahoo. com></i></b> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);"><br>From: Kitty <medickat37@yahoo. com><br>Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone<br>To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com<br>Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 11:51 AM<br><br>
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<td valign="top">Because I used to be a union stewart for a local hospital and I read the disabilities act due to having to defend a coworker.<br><br>
<div align="center"><font color="#54466f"><strong> </strong></font> <font color="#aa4d4e"><strong> </strong></font></div>
<div align="center"><font color="#aa4d4e"><strong> </strong><em>Sincerely, Kat</em></font></div>
<div align="center"><em><font color="#aa4d4e"> EMT-P</font></em></div>
<div align="center"><em><font size="4" color="#0000ff"> <font color="#7f3f00" face="courier">Flint, Michigan</font></font></em></div><br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 1/6/09, Christine Berger <i><colleenchris1966@ yahoo.com></i></b> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);"><br>From: Christine Berger <colleenchris1966@ yahoo.com><br>Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone<br>To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com<br>Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 10:42 AM<br><br>
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<td valign="top">How do you know that??<br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 1/6/09, Kitty <i><medickat37@yahoo. com></i></b> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);">From: Kitty <medickat37@yahoo. com><br>Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone<br>To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com<br>Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 10:33 AM<br><br>
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<td valign="top">Alcoholism is covered under the American Disabities Act as a dibilitating disease.<br><br>
<div align="center"><font color="#54466f"><strong> </strong></font> <font color="#aa4d4e"><strong> </strong></font></div>
<div align="center"><font color="#aa4d4e"><strong> </strong><em>Sincerely, Kat</em></font></div>
<div align="center"><em><font color="#aa4d4e"> EMT-P</font></em></div>
<div align="center"><em><font size="4" color="#0000ff"> <font color="#7f3f00" face="courier">Flint, Michigan</font></font></em></div><br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 1/6/09, seekerk ofpa <i><seekerk@msn. com></i></b> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);"><br>From: seekerk ofpa <seekerk@msn. com><br>Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone<br>To: bbs_open_discussion @yahoogroups. com<br>Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 10:26 AM<br><br>
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<div>The AMA says it is a Disease. The program has not changed but what we know about alcoholism and the meetings have changed over the years. Also the idea of what is a disease and what is not has change. Back when the big book was written lou <em>garics</em> was not a disease either, neither was alzhimers or dozens of others that we now know are caused by physical, not mental causes. <br><br>Many peole do lean on the idea that since is is a disease they are helpless. I have another disease that leads me to a whole new way of thinking. In some ways it is like AA, and AA has helped me trememdously with it. I have to decided every time I eat or think about eating weather to be in pain and ill or not.<br>I now have the wisdom to know what was killing me so now I have the choice. I can not think my self able to do what I once did and think this time will be different. In that illness just one will make me sick and I just be on constatant watch because
people love to hide it in food and think of it as a way to celabrate cheer. Funny thing is it also leads to mood swings, depression, brain fog and killing parts of my body. It is a disease and i choose to live in recovery not in Illness. Same with AA where do I want to hang my hat? Am I a sick and hopless drunk or have I found the solution?<br><br>Peresonaly I don't really care what lable anyone gives AA. If I follow the program as written in the big book I stay sober. It does not matter what I call it what matters is how I choose to act on it.<br><br>ONe more mile<br><br>
<hr id="EC_stopSpelling">
To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com<br>From: cappyquinlan@ <a target="_blank" href="http://bigpond.com">bigpond.com</a>. au<br>Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:24:57 +1100<br>Subject: Re: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone<br><br>Your last para says what I wanted to say ,better .
<div><br></div>
<div>I knew there was something amiss when I had grown tired of hearing that we have a disease and i thought this is being pushed too hard .Then I progressed to learning more AA history and found more in the Big Book ,but more importantly what wasnt there ,ie a definition of alcoholism saying it was a disease . The guys who were pushing it as a disease also didnt appear to be too hot on working the steps ,also gave me a clue to what was going on in the Fellowship as opposed to the Program .</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Thank you .</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Frank Quinlan<br>
<div>
<div>On 06/01/2009, at 3:24 PM, les hymel wrote:</div><br class="EC_EC_Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div>Actually from what i read on the history, Bill wanted to call it a disease, however, he didn't want to offend the medical community, who didn't think it as a disease. Now I suppose u could consider alcoholism a form of spiritual disease, however the BB doesn't say it is one. In the forward to the 2nd edition on page xx(4th Ed.)/page xviii(3rd Ed), second paragraph-Alcoholic s Anonymous is not a religious organization. <span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span><font style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 128);">Neither does A.A. take any particular point of view, though we cooperate widely with the men of medicine as well as with the men of religion.</font><font style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> Also the 10th tradiotio, particularly the long form.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Additionally I hear the argument that it wasn't classified as a disease until 1965. We have had 2 Editions printed since then and numerous printings of each edition. The internet as we know it only evolved in the 1980's or so and the 4th Edition has mention.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>My main beef is that if I look at it as a disease, then I have something outside of myself to blame it on, as opposed to a spiritual disease within me, of which<span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong>I<span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></strong>alone am responsible for taking necessary action.<br><br></div>
<div><font size="4">Les Hymel</font></div>
<div><font size="4">678-936-1080</font></div><br><br>--- On<span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Mon, 1/5/09, Mark Matta<span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span><i><mjamatta@yahoo. com></i></b><span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);"><br>From: Mark Matta <mjamatta@yahoo. com><br>Subject: RE: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone<br>To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com<br>Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 10:50 PM<br><br>
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<div><span class="EC_EC_658193503-06012009"><font size="2" color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Les, </font></span></div>
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<div><span class="EC_EC_658193503-06012009"><font size="2" color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Sorry, but I should have been more through and considerate in my questioning. I see the term malady used rather liberally in the text and see that as near, but not the same idas as the term disease. Bill was fond of using many different terms to make the same point or idea present for us. Where did the term or ideal of the "disease concept" originate? Les is most correct that the Big Book especially the Dr's Opinion does not use the word disease except one. Big Book, Page 64 where it describes the spiritual problems(disease) that evolve from resentments that many people alcoholic and non-alcoholic alike abound. I always heard the disease concept in meetings and after reading Les's comment I am having a few new thoughts on the matter. The disease term, may not be the way the author intended if he went to such lengths to
use other
terms with near complete exclusion of the word disease. My compliments on your timely and accurate statement. </font></span></div>
<div><span class="EC_EC_658193503-06012009"><font size="2" color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div>
<div><span class="EC_EC_658193503-06012009"><font size="2" color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Yours in Fellowship,</font></span></div>
<div><span class="EC_EC_658193503-06012009"><font size="2" color="#0000ff" face="Arial"></font></span> </div>
<div><span class="EC_EC_658193503-06012009"><font size="2" color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Mark Matta</font></span></div>
<div><span class="EC_EC_658193503-06012009"><font size="2" color="#0000ff" face="Arial">724-219-3789</font></span></div>
<div><span class="EC_EC_658193503-06012009"><font size="2" color="#0000ff" face="Arial">Pitcairn 12&12</font></span></div>
<div><span class="EC_EC_658193503-06012009"><font size="2" color="#0000ff" face="Arial">3/24/97</font></span></div>
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<div class="EC_EC_OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left" lang="en-us"><font size="2" face="Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<br><b>From:</b><span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com [<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=BBS_">mailto:BBS_</a>Open_Discussion@ yahoogroups. com]<span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>les hymel<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, January 05, 2009 3:35 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone<br><br></font></div>
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<td valign="top">Rhine I have to disagree with part of what u said. Nowhere in the basic text does it say that alcoholism is a disease<br><br>
<div><font size="4">Les Hymel</font></div>
<div><font size="4">678-936-1080</font></div><br><br>--- On<span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Mon, 1/5/09, rhinebeck2007<span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span><i><rhinebeck2007@ yahoo.com></i></b>wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);"><br>From: rhinebeck2007 <rhinebeck2007@ yahoo.com><br>Subject: [BBS_Open_Discussio n] Re: hello everyone<br>To: BBS_Open_Discussion @yahoogroups. com<br>Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 2:15 PM<br><br>
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<div>From an opening statement at my home group.<span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>"Here, we believe that everything you need to know about recovery from<br>the disease of alcoholism can be found in the Big Book of Alcoholics<br>Anonymous. Our message is that recovery is possible for anyone who<br>is willing to follow its suggestions and put the principles of the 12<br>Steps to work in their life."<br><br>I know this to be true. I also know that much of what one hears in the<br>rooms of AA today is either only partially true - hence false - or<br>absolutely false. It was not until I became "willing to follow its<br>suggestions and put the principles of the 12 Steps to work in my life"<br>that I was able to recover from alcoholism.<span class="EC_EC_Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>In Fellowship,<br><br>Mike
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