Andy,



I have been reading as much of your previous responses as I can.  As

I understand it, you do not recommend the challenge test, but giving

DMSA every four hours and taking a twenty-four hour sample.  Do you

think we will have luck getting the Dan! doc to go along with this

protocol?  Also, and this is my main question, our son has a hyper-

gag reflex and is very taste sensitive.  We will be unable to get him

to swallow a pill, and even if we could, he would most certainly

throw it up.  A doctor told me that there is a topical chelator

available or a suppository.  Is this true? If these are not

available, how are we going to be able to chelate him?



Thanks,



Haven

--- In Autism-Mercury@y..., "shygirl75158" <horses@n...> wrote:

> Andy,

>

> I have been reading as much of your previous responses as I can.  As

> I understand it, you do not recommend the challenge test, but giving

> DMSA every four hours and taking a twenty-four hour sample.  Do you

> think we will have luck getting the Dan! doc to go along with this

> protocol?



It depends on the doctor.  If he Rx's DMSA you can give it however you

want once you have it.



>Also, and this is my main question, our son has a hyper-

> gag reflex and is very taste sensitive.  We will be unable to get

him

> to swallow a pill, and even if we could, he would most certainly

> throw it up.  A doctor told me that there is a topical chelator

> available or a suppository.  Is this true?



Kinda sorta.



>If these are not

> available, how are we going to be able to chelate him?



I'd try repeated trials of putting the chelator in something yummy

before I'd try suppositories.



Note that on a reasonable protocol (which the DAN! protocol isn't) you

use low enoughd oses of chelator that it really can be disguised in a

spoonfull of yoghurt, apple sauce, ice cream or sorbet.



The key to this is to put some stuff on the spoon, pile the meds on

it, and then put more stuff OVER them.  Or mix them up with the yummy

stuff and use enough of it to mask the taste.



Andy . . . . . . . .

>

> Thanks,

>

Hi Andy,



I have trouble giving my son 4 1/2 years old his night time doses of

ALA. First time I tried, he sort of took them the first night

although some of it got spillt or spat out again, after I tried to

force it into his mouth. The second night he just wouldn't take it.

I don't want to force it into his mouth again, firstly, because it

doesn't feel right (invading his body against his will) and also,

because if he spits it out again, I never know how much he has had,

which makes for very inexact dosing.



After this I gave him about 2 weeks break, spoke to him about it

(during the day you can reason with him although he is still very

strong minded, but during the night he just won't listen) and got

his promise, that he would take it during the night next time.

Yesterday, I gave him ALA all through the day and practised with him

to take it with a syringe (which he enjoyed), all perpared for the

night as I thought. Then he again refused to take it when I woke him

for his first night time dose. I decided then to give up for at

least several months, because I was worried, that I might do more

harm than good. This morning I gave him fairly high doses of Vit C,

Milk Thisle and also some selenium, to limit potential harm.



Later I found that him practising writing numbers for the first time

and doing quite a good job. This could be coincidence, but I was

wondering, whether it might still be a positive result of this

aborted round of chelation.



I now feel half tempted to risk doing the odd day at a time and

already give the selenium before bedtime in case he refuses nightime

doses.



My son is not autisic, but probably poisoned by mercury from my

fillings (I got a mixture of gold and amalgan and had dental work

before I got pregnant with him and I think also whilst

breastfeeding, which I did until he was nearly two). He is not

vaccinated.



Sorry this is so long. I be gratefull for advice.



                                  Dagmar.



P.S. I doubled his first dose of the day, thinking that if you

always give a full dose after half the ALA is gone it would

gradually add up to double the dose anyway and I might as well start

on this level. Is this alright?

> Sorry this is so long. I be gratefull for advice.



I would suggest trying to chelate again every couple of weeks, and

trying every possible means to get him to chelate through the night.

Wake him more completely (he may simply have not woken enough to

remember he had agreed to cooperate).  Or try it with him not really

woken up at all.  Offer him bribes.  Hold his nose and squirt it in

when he gasps (swallowing them is a reflex - he won't spit).  Etc.  Be

creative.  I understand not wanting to force him to do things, but if

he had a broken arm and wouldn't let the doctor touch him you would

not give him a choice in the matter.



A few one day cycles won't be disastrous.  A lot could be a problem.

But don't be afraid to try chelating until you do figure out how to

get him to swallow it at night.

>

>                                  Dagmar.

>

> P.S. I doubled his first dose of the day, thinking that if you

> always give a full dose after half the ALA is gone it would

> gradually add up to double the dose anyway and I might as well start

> on this level. Is this alright?



Yes, but unnecessary.



Andy.. . . . . .

Hi Dagmar,



I just wanted to mention another idea you might think about

for the nighttime.  Actaully similar to what Andy also said.



You may want to try (painful as this sounds) keeping him

awake for say 10 or 15 minutes and THEN giving him the

syringe of chelation stuff.  I know that when was chelating,

sometimes I had NO IDEA what was going on when the alarm

woke me up, because I was asleep and things are different.

[And I know ALL ABOUT IT ahead of time LOL!]  Sometimes

I could wake up and take the pill no problem.  But many

times I just didn't know what was happening, for example

didn't know "oh this is an alarm clock" -- didn't know

WHY it was ringing, etc.  Didn't know if I had already

taken the stuff or not.  I could be in the middle of

a dream or in some deep sleep state -- you just never

know......



You might go so far as to play music or do a small activity

at night, like wash his face first, or tell a story, or

whatever.  Wow--I just remembered a dream I had last night.

[no kidding]



best wishes,

Moria



--- In Autism-Mercury@y..., "dagmarjahr" <dagmarjahr@e...> wrote:

> Hi Andy,

>

> I have trouble giving my son 4 1/2 years old his night time doses of

> ALA. First time I tried, he sort of took them the first night

> although some of it got spillt or spat out again, after I tried to

> force it into his mouth. The second night he just wouldn't take it.

> I don't want to force it into his mouth again, firstly, because it

> doesn't feel right (invading his body against his will) and also,

> because if he spits it out again, I never know how much he has had,

> which makes for very inexact dosing.

>

> After this I gave him about 2 weeks break, spoke to him about it

> (during the day you can reason with him although he is still very

> strong minded, but during the night he just won't listen) and got

> his promise, that he would take it during the night next time.

> Yesterday, I gave him ALA all through the day and practised with him

> to take it with a syringe (which he enjoyed), all perpared for the

> night as I thought. Then he again refused to take it when I woke him

> for his first night time dose. I decided then to give up for at

> least several months, because I was worried, that I might do more

> harm than good. This morning I gave him fairly high doses of Vit C,

> Milk Thisle and also some selenium, to limit potential harm.

>

> Later I found that him practising writing numbers for the first time

> and doing quite a good job. This could be coincidence, but I was

> wondering, whether it might still be a positive result of this

> aborted round of chelation.

>

> I now feel half tempted to risk doing the odd day at a time and

> already give the selenium before bedtime in case he refuses nightime

> doses.

>

> My son is not autisic, but probably poisoned by mercury from my

> fillings (I got a mixture of gold and amalgan and had dental work

> before I got pregnant with him and I think also whilst

> breastfeeding, which I did until he was nearly two). He is not

> vaccinated.

>

> Sorry this is so long. I be gratefull for advice.

>

>                                  Dagmar.

>

> P.S. I doubled his first dose of the day, thinking that if you

> always give a full dose after half the ALA is gone it would

> gradually add up to double the dose anyway and I might as well start

> on this level. Is this alright?

Thank you very much!

   ----- Original Message -----

   From: andrewhallcutler

   To: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com

   Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:31 AM

   Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Andy, advice please





   > Sorry this is so long. I be gratefull for advice.



   I would suggest trying to chelate again every couple of weeks, and

   trying every possible means to get him to chelate through the night.

   Wake him more completely (he may simply have not woken enough to

   remember he had agreed to cooperate).  Or try it with him not really

   woken up at all.  Offer him bribes.  Hold his nose and squirt it in

   when he gasps (swallowing them is a reflex - he won't spit).  Etc.  Be

   creative.  I understand not wanting to force him to do things, but if

   he had a broken arm and wouldn't let the doctor touch him you would

   not give him a choice in the matter.



   A few one day cycles won't be disastrous.  A lot could be a problem.

   But don't be afraid to try chelating until you do figure out how to

   get him to swallow it at night.

   >

   >                                  Dagmar.

   >

   > P.S. I doubled his first dose of the day, thinking that if you

   > always give a full dose after half the ALA is gone it would

   > gradually add up to double the dose anyway and I might as well start

   > on this level. Is this alright?



   Yes, but unnecessary.



   Andy.. . . . . .





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

With my son, waking him only made him fight taking them as well. Now I just

put the medicine syringe to his lips and he sucks on it on his own. I mix the

DMSA with lemonade, you could practice giving him just lemonade when ever you

are up and he is asleep to try to get the sucking response.



Natalie



Dagmar wrote:



> Thank you very much!

>   ----- Original Message -----

>   From: andrewhallcutler

>   To: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com

>   Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:31 AM

>   Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Andy, advice please

>

>   > Sorry this is so long. I be gratefull for advice.

>

>   I would suggest trying to chelate again every couple of weeks, and

>   trying every possible means to get him to chelate through the night.

>   Wake him more completely (he may simply have not woken enough to

>   remember he had agreed to cooperate).  Or try it with him not really

>   woken up at all.  Offer him bribes.  Hold his nose and squirt it in

>   when he gasps (swallowing them is a reflex - he won't spit).  Etc.  Be

>   creative.  I understand not wanting to force him to do things, but if

>   he had a broken arm and wouldn't let the doctor touch him you would

>   not give him a choice in the matter.

>

>   A few one day cycles won't be disastrous.  A lot could be a problem.

>   But don't be afraid to try chelating until you do figure out how to

>   get him to swallow it at night.

>   >

>   >                                  Dagmar.

>   >

>   > P.S. I doubled his first dose of the day, thinking that if you

>   > always give a full dose after half the ALA is gone it would

>   > gradually add up to double the dose anyway and I might as well start

>   > on this level. Is this alright?

>

>   Yes, but unnecessary.

>

>   Andy.. . . . . .

>

>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

>               ADVERTISEMENT

>

>

>

>

>

>   =======================================================

>   Statements posted on this list are for information only,

>   and should NOT be taken as medical advice.  If you need

>   medical advice, you should seek it from those who are

>   authorized to give medical advice: doctors.

>

>   Post message: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com

>   Subscribe:    Autism-Mercury-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

>   Unsubscribe:  Autism-Mercury-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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>

>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

> =======================================================

> Statements posted on this list are for information only,

> and should NOT be taken as medical advice.  If you need

> medical advice, you should seek it from those who are

> authorized to give medical advice: doctors.

>

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