--- In Autism-Mercury@y..., drew9589@c... wrote:
> By MLM what I meant is body bio a Muti-level Marketing company?
Those
> are compamys that are like pyramids. they make money off recruiting
> people to buy and sell your products. Amway would be an example
> because it was one of the first. 4-life, Rexall are others. I am not
> saying any of these products or companys are bad it is just that the
> form letter that was sent to some of these autism groups sounded
just
> like the same tactics used in these companys to recruit people.
There
> are alot of them out there targeting parents like us who are trying
> to help our kids and looking for answers. I only mention the name
> Mark Sshauss because he was mentioned to me as someone I moght know
> and I have never heard of him.

Drew, I have no idea, but I know that I wasn't recruited to do
anything, I volunteered. I asked Dr.Kane if I could copy my
son's test results and give them to parents who wanted to
see them at the DAN conference. She told me that they had shared
a booth with Nordic Naturals before, and that I could sit with Bonnie,
if I wanted to do that. I was going to the conference alone, and
it sounded like wonderful idea. If I hadn't of been there, I sure
wouldn't have been able to meet Dr.Shaw, which was very exciting.
  I missed most of the lectures, but meeting these wonderful doctors
in person, no lecture could replace that.
  There is no conspiracy here, I would jump through hoops of fire
for Dr.Kane for what she has done for my child.
  But how do you re-pay someone that has given your child the
gift of speech, that is something money cannot buy.
                              Best, Linda Forrest's Mom

Click on Members and look up your address, it says you joined
4/09/01, so this is a mistake?

I have been reading your past posts. You and Charlene and Pat. Kane all sound
pretty tight. You seem to have an agenda and that is to push body bio. This
has been your agenda in the past and why you get kicked off groups. You are
the innocent, sweet one and Charlene is the mean one. I am beginning to think
that you are one and the same person. This will be the last time I reply to
you. I hope you and your group do not fleece too many innocent people! I also
hope you get kicked off this group soon! I think people like you are
deplorable!

I'm really confused as to why some folks on this list get so fussy when
someone offers info about options for detoxing that differs from the DAN
Protocol or Andy's protocol.  I know we all want to believe we're doing the
best protocol possible for our children but sometimes opening our mind to as
much input as possible can help us make our protocols even better.  I've been
doing this for almost four years now and have changed our protocol numerous
times to adapt to my son's individual needs.  This list is named "Autism
Mercury" which I assume means you can talk about anything related to its
toxicity and healing the toxicity and related challenges.  I read this list
to learn about all options and hope that folks can chill out and let
everything be discussed openly.  Otherwise, you might as well rename the list
andy-mercury.  Now before you get all huffy and start fussing at me, please
know I'm not meaning to offend Andy or anyone following his protocol. I know
he's really helped alot and has been generous with his time and information
and I appreciate that.  But I do want to make a point for those who keep
telling folks with other opinions to go away and start their own lists.  If
we all do that than we're isolating groups of ideas that we could actually
take the best of for each individual child to create even better protocols.

If you strongly disagree with something that is posted and really feel the
need to warn other parents, could you try to be respectful of the poster and
just state your thoughts/opinions/experiences?  It would really help those of
us who want to hear about a variety of options but don't want to wade through
alot of fussy messages.  Ok kids, play nice now  and let's concentrate on
helping our kiddos :).
Gaylen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Andy, Could someone have a bismuth and mercury toxicity at the
same time? My son has no detectable levels of mercury, but not
knowing any better we were giving him Pepto Bismol for stomach
pain. On the hair analysis he was high in aluminum and bismuth,
arsenic too, but no mercury. Do you think we competitively
beat out the mercury for attachment of copper? Not that
bismuth toxicity is any better, but I was wondering if that
would explain why my son didn't show mercury, when it was
probably the HepB shot that did him the most harm.
                           Best, Linda Forrest's Mom

Well Drew (and everyone else),

I am also on this list because I have a very sick child. My son is 17, had
chronic ear infections, a reaction to the DPT shot, had chronic diarrhea for
over 15 years and was once considered the most severely autistic child in the
Portland area.

And I have also had the most success so far with the personalized BodyBio
plan.

BodyBio is NOT an MLM. I really don't have any idea where you may have gotten
that idea from.

BodyBio is the company that Dr. Kane formed after Mark Schauss took over her
former company of CarbonBased. Mark Schauss is on this list, and he is
selling something here. Perhaps this list is where you've heard his name
before.

Many people copy things from list to another- perhaps that is what happened
with the post from Charlene. There are a couple of other people on various
lists, that I have thought could be someone else also. Doesn't mean they are,
just I think all of us get paranoid at times. Frustration with finding a
doctor who doesn't poo-poo us, teachers and school districts that contradict
us, run-ins with child protective agencies. Yes, I'm a bit paranoid these
days too. I think we all need to be kind to each other and not say insulting
things or make unfair accusations. Most of us on this are parents just trying
to help our children. I see no reason for anyone to get nasty here, ever!

BodyBio is a nutritional consult firm, which does evaluations of lab values
for physicians all over the US and makes dietary and supplement
recommendations to correct abnormalities- often resulting in improved health.

Dr. Kane also frequently lectures for medical organizations such as AAEM. She
is highly regarded by these folks. I first heard her speak at an AAEM
convention in Oct. 1999. The last day was on autism and parents were invited
after several parents heard about the conference and made special requests.

You can only have a BodyBio consult done through a physician, so none of us
that say our children were helped through the plan that Dr. Kane made for our
kids (individually based on lab results) are selling anything. We are merely
saying this helped our child, just like some say chelating helped theirs or
Kirkman's Super Nu-thera helped theirs, or IVIG helped theirs or ABA helped
theirs, and sometimes it's a combination of things that work. Again Dr. Kane
can only be accessed through a physician and the only products she has
developed are the E-lyte electrolyte solution and E-lyte liquid minerals and
now an oil product, which are chiefly sold through other companies like
Emerson and Omega Nutrition. I get mine through them. So I'm not selling
anything. [Wouldn't mind doing so though, since my hubby's out of work-
anyone got a good sales program?  :) joke]

Some of us with older kids, like mine (17) have tried virtually everything,
so I think I have some idea by this point what has helped my son and what
hasn't.

Now, I have e-mailed Charlene (who is tall and brunette and sleeps at night)
and Linda (who is petite and blonde and is a night owl), who live in differ
ent states, just as I have corresponded individually with many others
personally. They are not the same person. Nor am I one of them. (I am an RN
at a major medical center in Portland.  I like to post late at night, because
I read my e-mail and respond when I get home from working the evening shift.
Oh, and I'm short and chubby and have graying hair -at age 46- that I color)
I am also not Dr. Kane even though she got me interested in the study of
fatty acids, which I frequently post about, because the literature is so
fascinating and supports the fatty acid issues I am working on with my son.

There are about 4 people who are actively against Dr. Kane on the autism
lists and post such. The rest just repeat what they've heard instead of
checking things out for themselves like I did.

And always in the negative posts, she is called "Pat Kane". Well, having
attended 2 conferences where she spoke and talking with several physicians
who know her well, she does not even usually go by that nickname. I guess
that tells something about the negative posters- they just copycat each
other. So when I see her called that, I can pretty well guess where the info
originated.

I am tired of all the uproar. What is the problem with those of us who have
had success with BodyBio saying so, just like other people who tell about
their success with other things?

I'm not out to sell anything, but if someone wants information about our
success, I'm plenty happy to share. Feel free to contact me off-list.

Now, I'll go back to posting about things I read and know about, and what
works for my child.

                                                         Ruth, Jeremy's mom


In a message dated 6/1/01 12:22:03 AM, Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com writes:

<< Message: 15
    Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 00:48:48 EDT
    From: drew9589@...
Subject: Body bio to Charlene

Dear Charlene, I am very sorry I have offended you because of what I learned
and wrote about concerning Pat Kane. I would never have said these things if
they were not true. I do not have a problem with her products as much as with
her techniques in recruiting vulnerable parents who are trying to help their
sick children. We are all on this list because we have very sick children and
I am very happy for you that your children are doing so well! I only felt
compelled to warn people of what I consider a lack of integrity in Pat Kanes
actions. I do not think that your anger, sarcasm and down right meanness to
fellow list members when you do not like something they say is neither
necessary or belongs on this list. I hope that in the future you can reply to
peoples posts with a measure of maturity and dignity that I have henceforth
not seen from you. Again, I am sorry if the information I gave on Pat Kane
has upset you and I am glad that she has helped your children.


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 16
    Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 01:25:22 EDT
    From: drew9589@...
Subject: Something Stinks in Body Bio Land!!!

To All list members of this group, WARNING!! I just read Charlene Pagac post
number 23899 sent to this group on May 9th about her Body bio experience.
GUESS WHAT!!! Our group "DrAmyskids was sent the exact same letter on May 9th
except the person who sent it had a different NAME?!!!!! So what kind of scam
are you trying to pull Charlene? And I take back my apology to you! I knew
there was something wrong here. You are a fake!!!! If anyone does not believe
me, go check out the messages at DrAmysKidsGroup@... on May 9th. Same
exact "form" Letter only different name. Something is VERY WRONG here!
  >>

Reichelt found the casomorphine proteins (I believe).
At any rate, his work replicated Paul Shattock's work.

If I am mistaken, I'm sure someone will correct me.

Tali
--- fullarmor@... wrote:
> OK  I'm a "scanner".  Very interesting article...but
> I didn't see a reference
> as to WHAT proteins (peptides) Reichelt
> found....anyone have further
> information on this?
> Victoria
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

My son drinks like crazy too.  If he could have an IV with juice attached to
it, that would make him the happiest kid around!!

Christine
Sal's mom


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excessive thirst and frequent urination are a sign of an Omega 6 EFA
deficiency and also a sign of diabetes.  The O6 EFA deficiency is quite
common and can be corrected by taking 450 to 1350 mg of Evening Primrose Oil
daily. Diabetes can be confirmed by testing. About $5 to $10 for EP Oil will
show if an O6 EFA deficiency exists.

Bob Fisher



----- Original Message -----
From: "Al and Kris Asker" <aka@...>
To: <Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Autism-Mercury] extreme thirst!


I know DMSA can be dehydrating, so it's probably good that he wants to drink
so much.  Sorry to hear about the wetting though.  Probably not diabetes,
but if you're concerned about that, it's a pretty simple test.
Hopefully someone else on the list will have more answers for you.

Kris
aka@...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Dwyer" <dwyer.whynot@...>
To: <Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com>; <DrAmysKids@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 4:36 PM
Subject: [Autism-Mercury] extreme thirst!


> OK, listmates---
> yes, I plead guilty to being a lurker. And asking for help and not
> contributing help.  But I am in dire need of yet more advice in recent
> weeks. (Plantar's warts, now this).
> Today, Seth (7)  was wet 45 minutes after going to the bathroom at
> school. Extremely rare for him. He is dry throughout each and every day
> 99.9% of the time. Staff reported he drank lots of water, starting early
> in the day. It continued even after he came home today. Even as I write
> this, he is saying "Thirsty! I'm thirsty!" (which would be a good thing
> if I wasn't so concerned that it's out of the ordinary)
> He's getting himself LOTS of water this afternoon.
>
> Should I be thinking about diabetes or something like that? He has been
> bed wetting since chelation, as I offered recetnly on one of these lists.
>  THAT would be an interesting mix to this soup.......I hope and pray it
> is something else. (No change in diet).
>
> Any thoughts?
> Nancy
> ________________________________________________________________
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>



=======================================================
Statements posted on this list are for information only,
and should NOT be taken as medical advice.  If you need
medical advice, you should seek it from those who are
authorized to give medical advice: doctors.

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AUTISM AND MERCURY
Q: How is Mercury Poisoning related to Autism?
Q: How dangerous is mercury?
Q: How could my child have become mercury poisoned?
Q: What are some other sources of exposure to mercury?
Q: But my dentist told me that dental amalgam is perfectly safe
Q: If mercury poisoning is caused by vaccines, then why aren't all kids mercury toxic?
Q: Has anyone actually cured their autistic child by chelating them?

DETERMINING MERCURY TOXICITY & FIRST STEPS
Q: My doctor says that my child is not mercury toxic because his/her blood and urine mercury levels are within normal limits. What do you think?
Q: How can I find out if my child has mercury poisoning?
Q: My alternative doctor wants to do a DMPS challenge test. Is this safe?
Q: I've made an appointment for a hair test and I'm trying to find a doctor to help me chelate. Is there anything I can do right now?
Q: OK, I'm convinced my child is mercury toxic. What do I do now?
Q: My child has only one amalgam filling, and I can't seem to find a dentist
who will agree to replace it. Can't I go ahead and chelate?
Q: I've gotten back the hair test results for my child, and it shows he has high
levels of other metals besides mercury. What should I do?

CHELATION
Q: What are chelating agents?
Q: What is DMPS?
Q: What is DMSA?
Q: What is ALA or LA?
Q: What is the proper dosage and administration schedule for DMSA and LA?
Q: I've started chelating and my child is having bad side effects. What can I do?
Q: I've heard that glutathione, chlorella, cilantro, cysteine, MSM, NAC, garlic,
and saunas will chelate naturally, and that the natural way is better. Is this true?
Q: My child is GFCF. Can I continue the diet?
Q: How long does it take to complete chelation?

RESOURCES
Q: Who is Andy Cutler?
Q: Who is Dr. Amy?
Q: How can I find a mercury-free dentist?

====================================================
AUTISM AND MERCURY

Q: How is Mercury Poisoning related to Autism?

In their paper "Autism: A Unique Type of Mercury Poisoning" Bernard et. al, http://www.cureautismnow.org/sciwatch/invest.cfm have revealed a startling similarity in the symptoms of Autism and Mercury Poisoning. While this may sound frightening, it actually shines a bright ray of hope into the lives of families living with an autistic child. Why? Because mercury poisoning can be cured.

Q: How dangerous is mercury?

Very. Mercury is the second most toxic element on earth, second only to plutonium. The amount of mercury found in one mercury thermometer is enough to pollute a small lake. Mercury toxicity has been linked to a large number of diseases, including arthritis, altzheimer’s, multiple sclerosis, fibromyalgia, lupus, chronic fatigue syndrome, depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, learning disabilities and ADHD.

Q: How could my child have become mercury poisoned?

Many parents believe the major culprit to be thimerosal, a preservative used in vaccines and other medications. Thimerosal is 50% mercury by weight. In October 1998, the FDA banned the use of thimerosal in over the counter medications. Since July, 1999, the FDA has "encouraged" manufacturers to remove thimerosal from vaccines. Some have done it; others have not. Today, most vaccines that are being manufactured do not contain thimerosal, or they only contain a "trace." But we do not know how many of the old thimerosal products are still on the shelf.

Each vaccine containing thimerosal exceeds the EPA's safety guidelines of 0.1 mcg/kg/day. Since multiple vaccines are often given on the same day, the amount of mercury injected into a typical infant is many times over the "safe" limit. Before the FDA ban, mercury had been added to eye drops, contact lens preparations, nasal sprays, contraceptive creams, hemmhoroid creams, lubricating gels, allergy injections, and antiseptics such as Mercurochrome® and merthiolate.

Q: What are some other sources of exposure to mercury?

There are many other common sources for mercury exposure. Here's a short list:

• Dental amalgams
• Released into the air by coal burning plants
• Fish and shellfish, especially tuna, salmon and swordfish
• Some paints
• Thermometers and blood pressure gauges (especially if mercury from broken instruments was spilled on carpet)
• Fluorescent light bulbs

Q: But my dentist told me that dental amalgam is perfectly safe.

The presence of mercury in dental amalgams is a very controversial subject. Despite the fact that dental amalgam contains 50% mercury, the American Dental Association's official position is that dental amalgam is safe, and that mercury does not pose a health risk. However, numerous research studies show that dental amalgams are a major source of mercury toxicity. Because of the ADA’s position, your dentist risks losing his license if he tells you that mercury is dangerous, no matter what he personally believes.

Q: If mercury poisoning is caused by vaccines, they why aren't all kids mercury toxic?

Sensitivity to mercury varies widely from person to person, as does the body's natural ability to detoxify. Some children can get rid of the mercury quickly, while in others, the toxin remains in the body longer, allowing it time to bind tightly in the brain and other organs.

Q: Has anyone actually "cured" their autistic child by chelating them?

The book "Turning Lead Into Gold" describes several cases of children with "autistic tendencies" who improved dramatically after chelation for lead.

As of this writing, no one on this list has completely cured their child from mercury poisoning. But its early yet. Dr. Amy is getting some wonderful results with the children in her practice, and numerous parents have reported improvements in their autistic children with each chelation cycle.

DETERMINING MERCURY TOXICITY & FIRST STEPS

Q: My doctor says that my child is not mercury toxic because his/her blood and urine mercury levels are "within normal limits." What do you think?

Most MDs are more familiar with lead poisoning than mercury poisoning. Blood and urine tests are the standard for measuring lead, but these tests are inadequate for mercury. This is because once mercury enters the body, it very quickly leaves the bloodstream and accumulates in the internal organs. Therefore, urine and blood tests will only show mercury if the person has been exposed to a large amount of mercury very recently. Chronic long-term exposure (amalgams) or old exposure (vaccines) will not show up with these tests. A better way to test for mercury is by using a hair elements test.

Q: How can I find out if my child has mercury poisoning?

Dr. Amy Holmes lists a number of useful medical tests on the website: http://www.healing-arts.org/children/holmes.htm. A trace minerals analysis, or hair test, is an inexpensive, non-invasive and reasonably accurate test for determining the body's burden of mercury and other heavy metals. Doctor's Data (708/231-3649) is a great source for obtaining this test. Keep in mind that mercury may be so tightly bound in the body's organs that it doesn't show up in large amounts in the hair test. Instead of looking at mercury by itself, it is necessary to look at all of the elements and to apply the "counting rules" (posted in files) to determine if mercury is present.

Q: My alternative doctor wants to do a DMPS challenge test. Is this safe?

No. DMPS challenge tests and IV chelation with DMPS can be very dangerous—see www.dmpsbackfire.com. A challenge test is when a doctor administers a large amount of a chelator in a single dose, and then tests the urine for metals. Challenge tests in general aren't useful for diagnosing mercury toxicity because everyone has some mercury in them, and DMPS (or DMSA) will mobilize it. If DMPS is to be used, it should be administered orally, every 8 hours. And no one should take a chelator of any kind if they have dental amalgam fillings.

Some doctors suggest doing the same sort of challenge test using a large oral dose of DMSA, or will suggest treatment with infrequent doses of chelator (once a day or every other day). This is also dangerous. Chelators should always be given in frequent, small doses (every 3-4 hours for DMSA, every 8 hours for DMPS).

Q: I've made an appointment for a hair test and I'm trying to find a doctor to help me chelate. Is there anything I can do right now?

Yes—you can begin supplementation. There are many dietary supplements that can help your child to feel better now, and during the chelation process. Here are some important ones:

Take these 4 times a day: Vitamin B complex, Vitamin C, and Milk Thistle extract

Take these often (frequency not as critical): Zinc, Magnesium, Vitamin E, mixed carotenes and lypocene, flax seed oil.

Q: OK, I'm convinced my child is mercury toxic. What do I do now?

If your child has dental amalgams, you will need to find a mercury-free dentist who can replace the silver amalgam fillings with some other material. Next, you should try to find a doctor who can help with chelation. Keep in mind that most regular allopathic doctors are not familiar with mercury toxicity. You don't have to go to a regular MD. "Alternative" doctors such as osteopaths, naturopaths, homeopaths and chiropractors may be able to help you obtain chelating agents and monitor your child's health during the process. You don't have to have a doctor to chelate, but it is a very good idea.

Q: My child has only one amalgam filling, and I can't seem to find a dentist who will agree to replace it. Can't I go ahead and chelate?

Absolutely not. You cannot start chelation if there are any silver amalgam fillings present. The chelator will remove mercury from the filling and deposit it in your child's body, making him even more toxic.

Q: I've gotten back the hair test results for my child, and it shows he has high levels of other metals besides mercury. What should I do?

Generally, you remove the other metals first. High levels of lead, copper, arsenic, antimony or aluminum can cause symptoms similar to mercury poisoning. If your child has high levels of several metals, he is likely very sick. Test again in three months.

Recommendations for chelating other metals:

Lead: Use DMSA, but follow the protocol for mercury in case mercury is present as well. Administer every 3-4 hours for several days, then rest for the same number of days, etc.

Arsenic: Use DMSA first if your child is mercury toxic. LA works very well for arsenic. Chelate using mercury protocol (every 3 hours, with on/off cycles).

Antimony: Use SAMe, 5 mg a day per pound of kid in divided doses. Or you can use the "poor man's methylating mix" of B-12 (100 mcg per pound), folate (10 mcg per pound) and TMG or choline (10-20 mg per pound). Spread these through the day. They may be energizing so you might want to give them in the earlier part of the day.

Copper: Copper absorption can be greatly reduced by giving 25 mg zinc + 250 mcg
molybdenum 4 times a day, and also by excluding high copper foods from the
diet. Nuts, organ meats, shellfish, molasses and sometimes unwashed produce
are high. Glycine, taurine and milk thistle extract might help get rid of copper faster.

Note: You should not give LA if your child has high copper levels, as LA will drive copper levels higher.

Aluminum: Restrict dietary intake. Don't cook in aluminum pans, or drink sodas from aluminum cans. Certain baking powders, antacids and antiperspirants contain aluminum, so be sure to check labels.

Cadmium: Zinc may help.

Antioxidant supplements help reduce the symptoms of all heavy metal problems.

CHELATION

Q: What are chelating agents?

Chelating agents are compounds with two or more binding groups for certain
metals combined into one molecule. Chelating agents for mercury are DMPS (2,3 dimercaptopropanesulfonate sodium), DMSA (2,3 meso DiMercaptoSuccinic Acid. Generic name: Succimer. Trade name: Chemet) and ALA (alpha lipoic acid).

Q: What is DMPS?

DMPS has been approved for bulk distribution by compounding pharmacies and is excellent for removing mercury from the body (but not the brain) if it is used properly.
Unfortunately many physicians use it and other chelating agents improperly, and like any drug these can be extremely dangerous when not used right.

Q: What is DMSA?

DMSA is a prescription medication which has been approved by the FDA for lead poisoning in children. It also works well for mercury. DMSA removes mercury from everywhere in the body except the brain, because it does not cross the blood-brain barrier.

Q: What is ALA or LA?

Alpha lipoic acid (ALA or LA) is an over-the-counter supplement which has been found to effectively chelate mercury. Unlike DMSA and DMPS, LA will cross the blood-brain barrier, and so it can move mercury out of or into the brain. LA should not be used if there has been recent mercury exposure (within 3 months) or if your child has high copper levels, since LA reduces copper excretion.

Q: What is the proper dosage and administration schedule for DMSA and LA?

The dosage is less important than the administration schedule. If you remember nothing else about this FAQ, remember this: DMSA or LA must be given in small, frequent doses (every 3-4 hours, even at night) over several days to be effective. Infrequent dosage will just stir up the mercury and redistribute it in the body, making your child sicker.

For DMSA alone, the guideline is 1 mg per pound of child to start. For DMSA given with LA, start with 1/8 to ½ mg. per pound of child. Increase slowly as tolerated.

If giving LA by itself, give it every 3 hours. DMSA is given every 4 hours. DMSA + LA should be given every 3 hours.

DMPS alone should be given every 8 hours.

Chelation should be done in cycles of at 3 to 7 days on the chelator, followed by at least as many days off as a rest period. Many parents find it convenient to chelate on weekends, starting when the child gets home from school and stopping on Monday morning, with weekdays as rest days. With the schedule, sleep is only interrupted on weekends and parents don't have to depend on school employees to give the medicine.

Q: I've started chelating and my child is having bad side effects. What can I do?

Some side effects that list members have reported include increased urination, redness of the face and extremities, rash, heartburn, and diarrhea. Your child may also show an increase in autistic symptoms (may become more "stimmy" or show more oppositional behavior). If the side effects are severe or difficult to deal with, stop the cycle and allow a rest time, then start the next cycle with a lower dosage. You may also want to try a shorter chelation cycle, with a larger rest period in between.

Q: I've heard that glutathione, chlorella, cilantro, cysteine, MSM, NAC, garlic, and saunas will chelate naturally, and that the natural way is better. Is this true?

Don't assume that because something is "natural," that it is necessarily better. As Andy has reminded us, strychnine and botulism are natural, and deadly. That said, some natural remedies are excellent. LA is a natural supplement available at health food stores, and it has been found to be a good chelator for mercury and arsenic. You have to read about and study each one so that you have some idea what you are giving your child. All of these remedies have been discussed on the list, and some of our list members swear by them. You are encouraged to inform yourself and make up your own mind. But here's what Andy and Amy say about them:

Glutathione – Andy: "Glutathione is not a chelator. Supplemental glutathione itself is of very little value since your gut should digest it. If your gut is not digesting it you will soon start taking other things to MAKE your gut digest it because letting undigested things like glutathione into your bloodstream will soon cause major allergy problems."

Chlorella—Andy: "While there is little in press that shows chlorella to be harmful, there are multitudinous observations of real people which show that. All you have to do is ask
around. Chlorella is simply another "sulfur food." It is very harmful to people who
are high in sulfur."

"Dr. Klinghardt, is the one that popularized DMPS injections and DMSA every other day, the first and second most dangerous mercury treatment protocols. Now he is on to chlorella, which is also very dangerous. I know several people who took it per his protocol and suffered permanent neurological damage as a result."

Cilantro—Andy: "There is some superstition that cilantro helps, and it really may, but it
isn't clear how to use it."

And this from Dr. Amy Holmes—"Cilantro. Untested. A few reports that it MAY cross the blood-brain barrier and chelate mercury, but no data. Please bear in mind that no one knows what the ingredient in cilantro is that MAY do this. Is every cilantro equal? Who knows? I don't see how one could possibly be even somewhat sure that you are keeping a relatively steady blood level of THE INGREDIENT when we don't know what THE INGREDIENT is or if all cilantro has the same amount of it. And if anything in mercury chelation is more important, I can't think of it."

Cysteine—Not a chelator. Andy: "Don't give cysteine/cystine or sources of it during ALA chelation unless you definitively know the child has low plasma levels of cysteine (not low-ish, definitively abnormally low)."

Dr. Amy: "I think we are much better off leaving glutathione, MSM, cysteine, etc. supplements alone. They cause many more problems than they can fix in an untested person.

MSM—Not a chelator. Andy: "The more I hear about MSM the more I suggest people avoid it. I keep getting random negative reports." And "It is an exceptionally bad idea to use MSM, cysteine, NAC or glutathione with LA since LA naturally increases your body's cysteine and glutathione levels."

NAC—This is a supplement which will cause the body to produce more glutathione. Andy: "Neither NAC nor glutathione remove any mercury from the brain - but they do
make whatever mercury is there a lot more toxic if administered in excessive
amounts."

Garlic—Not a chelator, but posters say it's great for pinworms.

Saunas—Andy: "Sauna has been used to detox mercury miners since time immemorial - when they get too messed up, they go to the sauna during work hours instead of into
the mine shaft." "Sweating does indeed increase mercury excretion. Probably an hour or
two of sauna is the same as 50 mg of DMSA every 4 hours for a day." Note: Posters urged caution with saunas because mercury toxic people are often heat sensitive.

Q: My child is GFCF. Can I continue the diet?

If it makes your child feel better, then by all means continue. Bernie Windham has written a paper that describes how mercury interferes with the enzyme that is needed to digest gluten and casein. Many people who are mercury toxic are sensitive to food that are high in sulfur, which includes all dairy products.

Regarding yeast: Mercury causes damage to the immune system, and a weakened immune system allows yeast, bacteria and and all sorts of other nasties to proliferate in the body. Yeast overgrowth can cause "leaky gut"—a condition in which the lining of the intestine becomes somewhat porous, allowing undigested particles to enter the bloodstream, causing allergic reactions. Mercury toxic individuals often suffer from food allergies. Therefore, a GFCF (gluten and casein-free) diet is probably a good idea before and during chelation. Theoretically, once the mercury is removed, the immune system is restored, and the gut is allowed to heal (this may require antibiotics and/or anti-fungals), the child may be able eat "regular" foods again.

Q: How long does it take to complete chelation?

Six months to two years, depending on how toxic a person is and how quickly you chelate. Children younger than 8 seem to respond more quickly than older children.

RESOURCES

Q: Who is Andy Cutler?

Andy Cutler is a Ph.D. chemist who found himself sick with mercury poisoning and figured out how to get well. He wrote a book called "Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and treatment" It sells for $35 and you can order it directly from his web site: http://hometown.aol.com/noamalgam. Andy spends many hours answering questions on our list, and he always tells it like it is—no bull.

Q: Who is Dr. Amy?

Dr. Amy Holmes is an M.D. in Louisiana who is working with parents of many autistic children to help them chelate mercury and other toxic metals from their children. Dr. Amy used to be an oncologist. She retired to raise her infant son, only to find out that he has autism. Now she has gone back to work to help her son and others’ children. Dr. Amy has written an article on the healing arts website: http://www.healing-arts.org/children/holmes.htm that describes the mercury problem and her treatment protocol. Licensing laws prohibit Dr. Amy from consulting with people who are not her patients. However, your doctor may call Dr. Amy at (225)767-7433 to consult with her or receive a faxed copy of her protocol.

Q: How can I find a mercury-free dentist?

Send a #10 SASE with 78 cents postage to:

Foundation For Toxic-Free Dentistry (or just use FTFD)
P.O. Box 608010
Orlando, FL
32860-8010

Be very careful when selecting a dentist. Composite fillings require more skill in placement than amalgam, and the risk for further mercury exposure during amalgam replacement is great. The dentist should follow something similar to the IOAMT protocol: http://mall.turnpike.net/P/PDHA/mercury/iaomt.htm for amalgam removal and replacement.
 
 

Brian,

I had a couple quesions if you don't mind.

Are you using the coffee grinder on the Primal Denfese?  If so do you grind only
one at a time or more?   Does it grind up as well as the capsule form or better.

Also, do you mix all those things mentioned together into one bottle?  I am
curious if you are mixing the oils with other things and what kind of success
you are having.

Appreciate your creativity, you should see what my guys am juice looks like!

Thanks Kyle (Ian's mom)
-----Original Message-----
From: Hooker, Brian S <brian.hooker@...>
To: 'Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com' <Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, May 31, 2001 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: [Autism-Mercury] Creative Dosing Strategies


We've tried a lot of stuff for our 3 year old but the best solution for us is a
"suicide" bottle first thing in the a.m. starting out with chocolate rice milk
and orange SuperNuThera[TM] powder (4 oz. of rice milk to 1/2 tsp.
SuperNuThera[TM]).  It makes sort of a chocolate-orange shake.  So far we've
been able to hide cod liver oil, kirunal, mineral supplement capsules (the
gelatin won't dissolve but you can empty out the contents of the capsule into
the bottle), glutathione, probiotic (Primal Defense[TM]), methionine, cysteine,
TMG, Zinc supplements, etc.  Any residue left in the bottle we clean up with a
"chaser" bottle of chocolate rice milk.  We dose our son at home so we avoid the
"dirty" looks of busy body parents who are convinced we're ruining his teeth and
palate.  BTW - His OT/PT says bottle with orthodontic nipple is o.k. and even
recommended for oral praxis!  Take that, mall cruising parent/critics!

Also, as some capsules are being discontinued (mad cow scare), we've taken some
caplet and tablet supplements and ground them using a small electric coffee
grinder.  It works like a charm.  Don't forget to clean it out before grinding
coffee...  :)

God Bless!

Brian


Brian S. Hooker, Ph.D., P.E.

Director of Research

PhytaGenics

902 Battelle Blvd., MSIN K2-10

Richland, WA  99352

Phone:  509-375-4420

FAX:    509-372-4660

email:  brian.hooker@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcy Kelly [mailto:mkelly@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 6:46 AM
To: 'Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Creative Dosing Strategies


I'm am putting together a comprehensive collection of "Creative Dosing
Strategies" to assist parents of all children who need to take supplements
and medications.  (This problem seems to come up frequently.)  I'm looking
for YOUR IDEAS to include in that collection.  Please send me ideas for
hiding (i.e. in peanut butter, shake recipes), teaching, making it a game,
etc.  I will compile the ideas and make it available for all to use.  Send
private email to:  mkelly@....  Please pass on to other
lists so that we can generate enough ideas that there will be something
that will work for every child.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Question???????

I have deleted this from my system. How do I add it back to my system ?????


John


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

drew9589@... wrote:

> I think people like you are deplorable!

This is one of those situations that probably gave rise to the saying,
"Well if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black."

Charlene

drew9589@... wrote:

> Dear Charlene, I am very sorry I have offended you because of what I
> learned
> and wrote about concerning Pat Kane.

I'm not offended. Just concerned with your lies and persistence in
spreading rumors.


> I would never have said these things if they were not true. I do not
> have a problem with her products as much as with her techniques in
> recruiting vulnerable parents who are trying to help their sick
> children.

I haven't been recruited. I chose this for my kids just like you chose
what treatment to try with your child.  Vulnerable parent? I don't think
so. I'm MEAN, mean, mean.


> I only felt compelled to warn people of what I consider a lack of
> integrity in Pat Kanes
> actions.

It's nice to know what you consider. The people on this list actually do
have brains though and can make decisions for themselves. You're opinion
doesn't count.

> I do not think that your anger, sarcasm and down right meanness to
> fellow list members when you do not like something they say is neither
>
> necessary or belongs on this list.

I have been nice up to this point. It was called cheesy. I'm not angry.
Sarcastic? Yes. Mean? I don't know. If calling you out on your lies is
mean then I guess I am. If I've been mean to anyone it's my kids - for
putting their lives on display - for telling people they were so
constipated at one point their anuses would bleed - for telling everyone
that Luke used to make "monkey noises" that drove me up the wall and
that they ate their own feces. They may run into someone when their
older who remembers these things. Now that could be considered mean if
you didn't take into account that I also shared what we did to help them
stop those behaviors.


> I hope that in the future you can reply to
> peoples posts with a measure of maturity and dignity that I have
> henceforth
> not seen from you.

I doubt it. I have been nice and sweet and some people use that to walk
all over me then spread lies about me.


> Again, I am sorry if the information I gave on Pat Kane
> has upset you and I am glad that she has helped your children.

Again - I'm not upset! It doesn't matter to be what you personally thing
of anyone. When you make your personal thoughts public and their wrong
that's when I speak up. Thanks for being glad that Dr. Kane is helping
my children recover! Thanks also for attempting to paint me a liar.

Charlene

drew9589@... wrote:

> I have been reading your past posts. You and Charlene and Pat. Kane
> all sound
> pretty tight.

My kids tests were ordered by their pediatrician. I'm not tight with Dr.
Kane.


> You seem to have an agenda and that is to push body bio.

No.......Linda and I both have the "agenda" to tell our experience of
our son's treatment in an honest and open way despite the pressure not
to do so

> This has been your agenda in the past and why you get kicked off
> groups.

I got kicked off of 1 group for sending someone's post to another
person. I knew it was wrong but did it anyway. The list owner stuck by
her rules and booted me. Also, I didn't even know Dr. Kane at the time.

> You are the innocent, sweet one and Charlene is the mean one.

I've never been called "the mean one." It sounds a bit like a World
Wrestling Federation nickname. I've have the nickname "Munch" from
"Homicide Life on the Streets" and Detective Munch in the show. He tends
to be a bit sarcastic - I guess my husband saw a similarity. Our friends
refer to us as "Mulder" and "Scully" from "The X-Files." I'm "Scully"
because I tend to look for the most logical explanation where my husband
is "Mulder" because he  believes in "Trust No One." Personally I like
"the mean one" better! It's kind of like being a Chihuahua all my life
and someone suddenly calls me a Great Dane.

> I am beginning to think that you are one and the same person.

I wish! Linda is about 5' 2", blond and about 100 pounds soak & wet. I'm
5' 8", brunet and 160 pounds dry. She has one kid with autism, I have 2.
Her's is an only child. I have one younger son.

> This will be the last time I reply to you.

Thank God! These public accusations are tiring!

> I hope you and your group do not fleece too many innocent people!

If we quit helping others for free who have chosen the same path as we
have will you take back the "fleecing accusation?'

> I also hope you get kicked off this group soon!

How dare we become members of this group looking for more information
detoxing our kids, I hope we get kicked off too! Telling the truth is
bad, we should be punished. Being excited that our older, non-verbal
children are now speaking is wrong, what's wrong with us?

> I think people like you are deplorable!

If putting up with accusations like yours makes me deplorable then make
me a tee shirt and I'll wear it always.

Charlene

Drew,

drew9589@... wrote:

> To All list members of this group, WARNING!! I just read Charlene
> Pagac post
> number 23899 sent to this group on May 9th about her Body bio
> experience.

Nice try! I did look up the post you  refer to and post number 2399 is
from Wendi Dupy. I do have another email address though - PacacC@...
- used basically for personal communication. Blue'sClues@...
has been my only address since we moved from Georgia to Ohio in 1998.

>
> GUESS WHAT!!! Our group "DrAmyskids was sent the exact same letter on
> May 9th
> except the person who sent it had a different NAME?!!!!!

Maybe you would be so kind as to forward that post to the list for those
of us who are not members of DrAmysKidsGroup@.... My chidden are
not patient's of Dr. Amy nor is our local pediatrician using her
protocol so I wouldn't have a need to join that group.


> So what kind of scam are you trying to pull Charlene? And I take back
> my apology to you!

I'm not trying to pull any scam. Usually scams involve money changing
hands. That excludes me. You can take back your apology! Really I don't
need it in order to continue what I do -- which is simply tell the truth
about what happened to my kids.


>  You are a fake!!!!

More Libelous statements? It's good to know their not limited to MD's or
P.HD's. Now their aimed at parents. And you call me "THE MEAN ONE???

Charlene

drew9589@... wrote:

> I just don't trust them and would hate to see any one get hurt.

Except me right? It's well and good to make accusations and lie about me
in a public forum.

> I have nothing to gain by saying this only to get my butt chewed off

Not to worry. I doubt anyone here has an interest in "chewing your
butt."

> Enough said. I think we all have heard enough about this subject.

It would be nice for you if we didn't tell everyone you were lying
right? You tell everyone that I'm a mean, lying, fleecing snake and then
decide enough has been said. I don't think so.

Charlene

I don't think this is a question of the list being unkind, but rather
alerting parents to the possibility of charlatans. Everyone can make up their
own minds once they see all the facts. If any parent has a bad expeience or
is aware of any shady dealing going on, I think it's important that it's
brought to everyone's attention. This is one of the more patient and tolerant
lists I've been on, especially considering all the hooey that gets flung
around.

YN

From:  nelsoneyes@c...
Date:  Fri Jun 1, 2001  2:11 pm
Subject:  Re: [Autism-Mercury] Re: BodyBio poll


I don't think this is a question of the list being unkind, but rather
alerting parents to the possibility of charlatans. Everyone can make up their
own minds once they see all the facts. If any parent has a bad expeience or
is aware of any shady dealing going on, I think it's important that it's
brought to everyone's attention. This is one of the more patient and tolerant
lists I've been on, especially considering all the hooey that gets flung
around.

YN


My sentiments exactly!!!!!!!!

Cindy,

Sorry you think I'm flaming, but you are welcome here as far as I'm
concerned!

I did deal with Isaak having inflamed intestines and bowels with great
results. His   intestines and bowels were also inflamed from a vaccine.
I'd love to talk to you and tell you about it. Can I call you sometime?

Please accept my sympathies for the death of your mother. My Father died
so I know that losing a parent can be very painful!

Charlene Pagac

Hjfasufi@... wrote:

> I joined this list because I've been doing research for over a year
> now. I
> posted new to the list a couple of days ago. I got one response
> (thanks for
> that). My post was very long (so you know I'm in need of help). Then
> all this
> crap about body bio and egos. Well, there maybe something to it and
> there may
> not be. To waste precious time and energy to go back and read old
> messages is
> taking time away from the importance of what this list has to offer.
>
> I'm on many other lists for autism because I'm in need of knowledge.
> They
> have been much more supportive.
>
> My son was hospitalized after the MMR. He had a colonoscopy done 13
> years
> ago. The Ped. GI said she never saw such inflamed intestines and
> bowels
> before. There was only one clear spot the size of a quarter. No one
> could
> give me a dx except for multiple food allergies. My mother died from
> Alzheimer's I have a two year old boy whom I'm trying to save from the
> same
> fate of my older son.
>
> I feel like I'm not welcome on this list, and I don't even know if I
> want to
> stay. I have 3 other stepsons and my life is very busy. I need to get
> facts
> and help don't have time for flaming.
>
> Cindy

Bob's correct. Luke used to drink up to a gallon of water a day. I had
him tested for diabetes which was negative. After Omega 6
supplementation he began drinking normally.

Charlene

Bob Fisher wrote:

> Excessive thirst and frequent urination are a sign of an Omega 6 EFA
> deficiency and also a sign of diabetes.  The O6 EFA deficiency is
> quite
> common and can be corrected by taking 450 to 1350 mg of Evening
> Primrose Oil
> daily. Diabetes can be confirmed by testing. About $5 to $10 for EP
> Oil will
> show if an O6 EFA deficiency exists.
>
> Bob Fisher
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Al and Kris Asker" <aka@...>
> To: <Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Autism-Mercury] extreme thirst!
>
>
> I know DMSA can be dehydrating, so it's probably good that he wants to
> drink
> so much.  Sorry to hear about the wetting though.  Probably not
> diabetes,
> but if you're concerned about that, it's a pretty simple test.
> Hopefully someone else on the list will have more answers for you.
>
> Kris
> aka@...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nancy Dwyer" <dwyer.whynot@...>
> To: <Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com>; <DrAmysKids@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 4:36 PM
> Subject: [Autism-Mercury] extreme thirst!
>
>
> > OK, listmates---
> > yes, I plead guilty to being a lurker. And asking for help and not
> > contributing help.  But I am in dire need of yet more advice in
> recent
> > weeks. (Plantar's warts, now this).
> > Today, Seth (7)  was wet 45 minutes after going to the bathroom at
> > school. Extremely rare for him. He is dry throughout each and every
> day
> > 99.9% of the time. Staff reported he drank lots of water, starting
> early
> > in the day. It continued even after he came home today. Even as I
> write
> > this, he is saying "Thirsty! I'm thirsty!" (which would be a good
> thing
> > if I wasn't so concerned that it's out of the ordinary)
> > He's getting himself LOTS of water this afternoon.
> >
> > Should I be thinking about diabetes or something like that? He has
> been
> > bed wetting since chelation, as I offered recetnly on one of these
> lists.
> >  THAT would be an interesting mix to this soup.......I hope and pray
> it
> > is something else. (No change in diet).
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> > Nancy
>

Linda,

I've stayed out of this discussion completely until you popped my name into
it.  It is a sin to pose as someone else and I have no idea who Drew is.  I
really sick and tired of being bought into things by you that I have nothing
to do with.  Leave me out of petty little vendeta.

Mark Schauss
----- Original Message -----
From: <carltonl@...>
To: <Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 10:49 PM
Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Something Stinks in Body Bio Land!!!


> That also seems to be the same day that Mark Schauss wrote this, by
> the way, that was the same day you joined the mercury list, Drew.
>  I was wondering why you kept bringing up Dr.Kane's products. Mark
> Schauss sells minerals and electrolytes, is there a little competition
> on products here?
>  It is a sin to pose as someone else, even you said so...
> From:  "Mark Schauss" <schauss@c...>
> >Date:  Mon Apr 9, 2001 2:58pm
> >Subject:  Re: [Autism-Mercury] Mineral drop dosage
> >
> >When talking about dosages of zny mineral, assimilation is a key
> factor in
> >the recommended dosage as much of what we take in capsules and
> tablets is
> >not absorbed so when someone (and correct me if I'm wrong Andy)
> recommends
> >40 mg of zinc it si with this in mind.
> >
> >In health,
> >Mark Schauss
> >www.cellmatewellness.com
>
>
>
>
> =======================================================
> Statements posted on this list are for information only,
> and should NOT be taken as medical advice.  If you need
> medical advice, you should seek it from those who are
> authorized to give medical advice: doctors.
>
> Post message: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe:    Autism-Mercury-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe:  Autism-Mercury-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner:   Autism-Mercury-owner@yahoogroups.com
> Shortcut URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>
>
>
>

Ruth,

If you checked your information, I owned the majority of Carbon Based along
with two partners not named Kane.  It is in the State of Nevada's records.
Please leave me alone and out of your BodyBio discussions.  I have nothing
to do with bashing of anyone as I have no time and don't really care about
it anymore.   There are more important things to discuss on this newsgroup.

Mark Schauss

----- Original Message -----
From: <RMart620@...>
To: <Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 2:01 AM
Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Something Stinks in Body Bio Land!!!


> Well Drew (and everyone else),
>
> I am also on this list because I have a very sick child. My son is 17, had
> chronic ear infections, a reaction to the DPT shot, had chronic diarrhea
for
> over 15 years and was once considered the most severely autistic child in
the
> Portland area.
>
> And I have also had the most success so far with the personalized BodyBio
> plan.
>
> BodyBio is NOT an MLM. I really don't have any idea where you may have
gotten
> that idea from.
>
> BodyBio is the company that Dr. Kane formed after Mark Schauss took over
her
> former company of CarbonBased. Mark Schauss is on this list, and he is
> selling something here. Perhaps this list is where you've heard his name
> before.
>
> Many people copy things from list to another- perhaps that is what
happened
> with the post from Charlene. There are a couple of other people on various
> lists, that I have thought could be someone else also. Doesn't mean they
are,
> just I think all of us get paranoid at times. Frustration with finding a
> doctor who doesn't poo-poo us, teachers and school districts that
contradict
> us, run-ins with child protective agencies. Yes, I'm a bit paranoid these
> days too. I think we all need to be kind to each other and not say
insulting
> things or make unfair accusations. Most of us on this are parents just
trying
> to help our children. I see no reason for anyone to get nasty here, ever!
>
> BodyBio is a nutritional consult firm, which does evaluations of lab
values
> for physicians all over the US and makes dietary and supplement
> recommendations to correct abnormalities- often resulting in improved
health.
>
> Dr. Kane also frequently lectures for medical organizations such as AAEM.
She
> is highly regarded by these folks. I first heard her speak at an AAEM
> convention in Oct. 1999. The last day was on autism and parents were
invited
> after several parents heard about the conference and made special
requests.
>
> You can only have a BodyBio consult done through a physician, so none of
us
> that say our children were helped through the plan that Dr. Kane made for
our
> kids (individually based on lab results) are selling anything. We are
merely
> saying this helped our child, just like some say chelating helped theirs
or
> Kirkman's Super Nu-thera helped theirs, or IVIG helped theirs or ABA
helped
> theirs, and sometimes it's a combination of things that work. Again Dr.
Kane
> can only be accessed through a physician and the only products she has
> developed are the E-lyte electrolyte solution and E-lyte liquid minerals
and
> now an oil product, which are chiefly sold through other companies like
> Emerson and Omega Nutrition. I get mine through them. So I'm not selling
> anything. [Wouldn't mind doing so though, since my hubby's out of work-
> anyone got a good sales program?  :) joke]
>
> Some of us with older kids, like mine (17) have tried virtually
everything,
> so I think I have some idea by this point what has helped my son and what
> hasn't.
>
> Now, I have e-mailed Charlene (who is tall and brunette and sleeps at
night)
> and Linda (who is petite and blonde and is a night owl), who live in
differ
> ent states, just as I have corresponded individually with many others
> personally. They are not the same person. Nor am I one of them. (I am an
RN
> at a major medical center in Portland.  I like to post late at night,
because
> I read my e-mail and respond when I get home from working the evening
shift.
> Oh, and I'm short and chubby and have graying hair -at age 46- that I
color)
> I am also not Dr. Kane even though she got me interested in the study of
> fatty acids, which I frequently post about, because the literature is so
> fascinating and supports the fatty acid issues I am working on with my
son.
>
> There are about 4 people who are actively against Dr. Kane on the autism
> lists and post such. The rest just repeat what they've heard instead of
> checking things out for themselves like I did.
>
> And always in the negative posts, she is called "Pat Kane". Well, having
> attended 2 conferences where she spoke and talking with several physicians
> who know her well, she does not even usually go by that nickname. I guess
> that tells something about the negative posters- they just copycat each
> other. So when I see her called that, I can pretty well guess where the
info
> originated.
>
> I am tired of all the uproar. What is the problem with those of us who
have
> had success with BodyBio saying so, just like other people who tell about
> their success with other things?
>
> I'm not out to sell anything, but if someone wants information about our
> success, I'm plenty happy to share. Feel free to contact me off-list.
>
> Now, I'll go back to posting about things I read and know about, and what
> works for my child.
>
>                                                         Ruth, Jeremy's mom
>
>
> In a message dated 6/1/01 12:22:03 AM, Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
writes:
>
> << Message: 15
>    Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 00:48:48 EDT
>    From: drew9589@...
> Subject: Body bio to Charlene
>
> Dear Charlene, I am very sorry I have offended you because of what I
learned
> and wrote about concerning Pat Kane. I would never have said these things
if
> they were not true. I do not have a problem with her products as much as
with
> her techniques in recruiting vulnerable parents who are trying to help
their
> sick children. We are all on this list because we have very sick children
and
> I am very happy for you that your children are doing so well! I only felt
> compelled to warn people of what I consider a lack of integrity in Pat
Kanes
> actions. I do not think that your anger, sarcasm and down right meanness
to
> fellow list members when you do not like something they say is neither
> necessary or belongs on this list. I hope that in the future you can reply
to
> peoples posts with a measure of maturity and dignity that I have
henceforth
> not seen from you. Again, I am sorry if the information I gave on Pat Kane
> has upset you and I am glad that she has helped your children.
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
>    Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 01:25:22 EDT
>    From: drew9589@...
> Subject: Something Stinks in Body Bio Land!!!
>
> To All list members of this group, WARNING!! I just read Charlene Pagac
post
> number 23899 sent to this group on May 9th about her Body bio experience.
> GUESS WHAT!!! Our group "DrAmyskids was sent the exact same letter on May
9th
> except the person who sent it had a different NAME?!!!!! So what kind of
scam
> are you trying to pull Charlene? And I take back my apology to you! I knew
> there was something wrong here. You are a fake!!!! If anyone does not
believe
> me, go check out the messages at DrAmysKidsGroup@... on May 9th.
Same
> exact "form" Letter only different name. Something is VERY WRONG here!
>  >>
>
>
> =======================================================
> Statements posted on this list are for information only,
> and should NOT be taken as medical advice.  If you need
> medical advice, you should seek it from those who are
> authorized to give medical advice: doctors.
>
> Post message: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe:    Autism-Mercury-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe:  Autism-Mercury-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner:   Autism-Mercury-owner@yahoogroups.com
> Shortcut URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

--- In Autism-Mercury@y..., drew9589@c... wrote:
> From:  nelsoneyes@c...
> Date:  Fri Jun 1, 2001  2:11 pm
> Subject:  Re: [Autism-Mercury] Re: BodyBio poll
>
>
> I don't think this is a question of the list being unkind, but
rather
> alerting parents to the possibility of charlatans. Everyone can
make up their
> own minds once they see all the facts. If any parent has a bad
expeience or
> is aware of any shady dealing going on, I think it's important that
it's
> brought to everyone's attention. This is one of the more patient
and tolerant
> lists I've been on, especially considering all the hooey that gets
flung
> around.
>

I agree...this list has been wonderful, but when stuff like this gets
started, our attentions seem to be shifted...I prefer to make my own
judgements and decisions regarding my son. The "red flag" goes up
occasionally, and I check the situation out and move on, trying to
keep my son's autism in focus so as not to waste time and energy
On worrying about other peoples motives.
   If the treatment or supplement works, I don't mind if someone makes
a little money, as long as it is something that helps my kid, if not,
then I don't use it.
~
~
> YN
>
>
> My sentiments exactly!!!!!!!!

--- In Autism-Mercury@y..., carltonl@c... wrote:
> Click on Members and look up your address, it says you joined
>

4/09/01, so this is a mistake?


Come-On people...lets get back to the issue at hand...OUR KIDS!

--Is CLO an Omega6 oil?...My son used to drink a tremendous amount of
water, also.  Since I have had him on CLO he does not drink nearly as
much-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~God's blessings, LIndy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~I
n Autism-Mercury@y..., bluesclues@s... wrote:
> Bob's correct. Luke used to drink up to a gallon of water a day. I
had
> him tested for diabetes which was negative. After Omega 6
> supplementation he began drinking normally.
>
> Charlene
>
> Bob Fisher wrote:
>
> > Excessive thirst and frequent urination are a sign of an Omega 6
EFA
> > deficiency and also a sign of diabetes.  The O6 EFA deficiency is
> > quite
> > common and can be corrected by taking 450 to 1350 mg of Evening
> > Primrose Oil
> > daily. Diabetes can be confirmed by testing. About $5 to $10 for
EP
> > Oil will
> > show if an O6 EFA deficiency exists.
> >
> > Bob Fisher
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Al and Kris Asker" <aka@m...>
> > To: <Autism-Mercury@y...>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Autism-Mercury] extreme thirst!
> >
> >
> > I know DMSA can be dehydrating, so it's probably good that he
wants to
> > drink
> > so much.  Sorry to hear about the wetting though.  Probably not
> > diabetes,
> > but if you're concerned about that, it's a pretty simple test.
> > Hopefully someone else on the list will have more answers for you.
> >
> > Kris
> > aka@m...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Nancy Dwyer" <dwyer.whynot@j...>
> > To: <Autism-Mercury@y...>; <DrAmysKids@y...>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 4:36 PM
> > Subject: [Autism-Mercury] extreme thirst!
> >
> >
> > > OK, listmates---
> > > yes, I plead guilty to being a lurker. And asking for help and
not
> > > contributing help.  But I am in dire need of yet more advice in
> > recent
> > > weeks. (Plantar's warts, now this).
> > > Today, Seth (7)  was wet 45 minutes after going to the bathroom
at
> > > school. Extremely rare for him. He is dry throughout each and
every
> > day
> > > 99.9% of the time. Staff reported he drank lots of water,
starting
> > early
> > > in the day. It continued even after he came home today. Even as
I
> > write
> > > this, he is saying "Thirsty! I'm thirsty!" (which would be a
good
> > thing
> > > if I wasn't so concerned that it's out of the ordinary)
> > > He's getting himself LOTS of water this afternoon.
> > >
> > > Should I be thinking about diabetes or something like that? He
has
> > been
> > > bed wetting since chelation, as I offered recetnly on one of
these
> > lists.
> > >  THAT would be an interesting mix to this soup.......I hope and
pray
> > it
> > > is something else. (No change in diet).
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
> > > Nancy
> >

---I know Drew from another list, I have never had a problem with
her, and have not heard of anyone complaining on that list. I have
not been on that list since Christmas time.
  i really don't know why we are dragging this on...?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ In Autism-Mercury@y..., "Mark Schauss" <schauss@c...> wrote:
> Linda,
>
> I've stayed out of this discussion completely until you popped my
name into
> it.  It is a sin to pose as someone else and I have no idea who
Drew is.  I
> really sick and tired of being bought into things by you that I
have nothing
> to do with.  Leave me out of petty little vendeta.
>
> Mark Schauss
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <carltonl@c...>
> To: <Autism-Mercury@y...>
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 10:49 PM
> Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Something Stinks in Body Bio Land!!!
>
>
> > That also seems to be the same day that Mark Schauss wrote this,
by
> > the way, that was the same day you joined the mercury list, Drew.
> >  I was wondering why you kept bringing up Dr.Kane's products. Mark
> > Schauss sells minerals and electrolytes, is there a little
competition
> > on products here?
> >  It is a sin to pose as someone else, even you said so...
> > From:  "Mark Schauss" <schauss@c...>
> > >Date:  Mon Apr 9, 2001 2:58pm
> > >Subject:  Re: [Autism-Mercury] Mineral drop dosage
> > >
> > >When talking about dosages of zny mineral, assimilation is a key
> > factor in
> > >the recommended dosage as much of what we take in capsules and
> > tablets is
> > >not absorbed so when someone (and correct me if I'm wrong Andy)
> > recommends
> > >40 mg of zinc it si with this in mind.
> > >
> > >In health,
> > >Mark Schauss
> > >www.cellmatewellness.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > Statements posted on this list are for information only,
> > and should NOT be taken as medical advice.  If you need
> > medical advice, you should seek it from those who are
> > authorized to give medical advice: doctors.
> >
> > Post message: Autism-Mercury@y...
> > Subscribe:    Autism-Mercury-subscribe@y...
> > Unsubscribe:  Autism-Mercury-unsubscribe@y...
> > List owner:   Autism-Mercury-owner@y...
> > Shortcut URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> >
> >
> >
> >

Dear list,

Drew brought up a great point when he made the accusation that "the
issue with Pat Kane was much worse than not being an MD, which she never
claimed to be, she's not even a Ph.D., which she does claim to be."

It dawned on me that some people help their children recover by one
method then quickly turn around and say it was from something entirely
different. I'm not sure what the motivating factor is but let's take Dr.
Amy Holmes as an example.

Dr. Holmes has stated that "Dr. Kane's protocol has been among the most
helpful (along with FGF2), the possibility exists that fatty acid
corrections have been improving Michael's immune defences against
systemic or peritoneal Klebsiella pneumoniae."
  http://www.jorsm.com/~binstock/mike-6.htm

So Dr. Holmes felt that Dr. Kane's protocol has been among the most
helpful and as it turns out her son had a Klebsiella overgrowth. He was
treated with several natural supplements, antibiotics and antifungals
for the Klebsiella overgrowth until
finally she wrote this.........."I finally was able to completely rid
Mikey of the ever-present Klebsiella Pneumoniae. It had been 4-plus in
each and every stool culture for at least the last 3 years, despite
throwing everything reasonable, both antibiotics and natural substances,
at it. I finally realized that nothing was able to get at this bug
because of its heavy LPS coat, so I 'uncoated'  it with bismuth
subsalicylate, and killed it with PO Neomycin. I used Neomycin 250
mg/bismuth subsalicylate 50 mg capsules—these must be made by a
compounding pharmacist. It can be made as an oral suspension too. The
dose is 1 capsule three times a day for 10 days. We are celebrating its
defeat. Mike went through a period of apparent die-off for about a week,
but has now gotten over that. His progress has been astounding lately."

I'm bit confused. Why does Dr. Holmes have everyone searching for ways
to rid the body of heavy metals? How does she know that was the major
issue leading to her sons autism?  I have a few of her tapes here from
major conferences and never
once did she mention that she corrected her sons fatty acids, used Dr.
Kane's recommendations or that he had a major Klebsiella overgrowth
problem.
Why hasn't she been more open about HOW she helped her son get better?
Dr.
Holmes corrected a lot of her own sons medical issues before she opened
her
DMSA Chelation Clinic Cash Cow.

Maybe we should talk about people who really do take advantage of
vulnerable parents and fleece people.

Charlene

Lindy,

CLO is an  Omega 3 Fatty Acid. We use a Primrose to supplement Omega 6
and Sunflower oil in their diet.

Charlene

gotojoshua1_9@... wrote:

> --Is CLO an Omega6 oil?...My son used to drink a tremendous amount of
> water, also.  Since I have had him on CLO he does not drink nearly as
> much-
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~God's blessings, LIndy
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~I
>
> n Autism-Mercury@y..., bluesclues@s... wrote:
> > Bob's correct. Luke used to drink up to a gallon of water a day. I
> had
> > him tested for diabetes which was negative. After Omega 6
> > supplementation he began drinking normally.
> >
> > Charlene
> >
> > Bob Fisher wrote:
> >
> > > Excessive thirst and frequent urination are a sign of an Omega 6
> EFA
> > > deficiency and also a sign of diabetes.  The O6 EFA deficiency is
> > > quite
> > > common and can be corrected by taking 450 to 1350 mg of Evening
> > > Primrose Oil
> > > daily. Diabetes can be confirmed by testing. About $5 to $10 for
> EP
> > > Oil will
> > > show if an O6 EFA deficiency exists.
> > >
> > > Bob Fisher
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Al and Kris Asker" <aka@m...>
> > > To: <Autism-Mercury@y...>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:33 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Autism-Mercury] extreme thirst!
> > >
> > >
> > > I know DMSA can be dehydrating, so it's probably good that he
> wants to
> > > drink
> > > so much.  Sorry to hear about the wetting though.  Probably not
> > > diabetes,
> > > but if you're concerned about that, it's a pretty simple test.
> > > Hopefully someone else on the list will have more answers for you.
>
> > >
> > > Kris
> > > aka@m...
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Nancy Dwyer" <dwyer.whynot@j...>
> > > To: <Autism-Mercury@y...>; <DrAmysKids@y...>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 4:36 PM
> > > Subject: [Autism-Mercury] extreme thirst!
> > >
> > >
> > > > OK, listmates---
> > > > yes, I plead guilty to being a lurker. And asking for help and
> not
> > > > contributing help.  But I am in dire need of yet more advice in
> > > recent
> > > > weeks. (Plantar's warts, now this).
> > > > Today, Seth (7)  was wet 45 minutes after going to the bathroom
> at
> > > > school. Extremely rare for him. He is dry throughout each and
> every
> > > day
> > > > 99.9% of the time. Staff reported he drank lots of water,
> starting
> > > early
> > > > in the day. It continued even after he came home today. Even as
> I
> > > write
> > > > this, he is saying "Thirsty! I'm thirsty!" (which would be a
> good
> > > thing
> > > > if I wasn't so concerned that it's out of the ordinary)
> > > > He's getting himself LOTS of water this afternoon.
> > > >
> > > > Should I be thinking about diabetes or something like that? He
> has
> > > been
> > > > bed wetting since chelation, as I offered recetnly on one of
> these
> > > lists.
> > > >  THAT would be an interesting mix to this soup.......I hope and
> pray
> > > it
> > > > is something else. (No change in diet).
> > > >
> > > > Any thoughts?
> > > > Nancy
> > >
>
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
   [Check out great fares at Orbitz!]

>
> =======================================================
> Statements posted on this list are for information only,
> and should NOT be taken as medical advice.  If you need
> medical advice, you should seek it from those who are
> authorized to give medical advice: doctors.
>
> Post message: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe:    Autism-Mercury-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe:  Autism-Mercury-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner:   Autism-Mercury-owner@yahoogroups.com
> Shortcut URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Yes, thanks for this. I feel that so many of the people could be
accused of trying to milk us for money. Certainly Kirkmans,
Cellmatewellness, Great Smokies, lots of doctors are all making alot
of money off our kids. I find it odd that Kane is a target instead of
discussing the merits of this or that protocol. There is no debate on
the merits such as there is between Andy and Dr. Amy on this list. I
really like this list alot, but also haven't found much information
that can help me decide whether chelation is really safe.

The other thing that bothers me is that one cannot get onto dr. amy's
list to explore the real experiences and success of the protocol,
unless you make an appointment first. So when Drew says to go look at
a post, it's not possible for any of us who haven't made an
appointment to do so

So many of these autism lists have so many people pushing their
products indirectly. I get tired of it. Unless you are a veteran, you
might succumb to it.

Rose


--- In Autism-Mercury@y..., Hjfasufi@a... wrote:
> I joined this list because I've been doing research for over a year
now. I
> posted new to the list a couple of days ago. I got one response
(thanks for
> that). My post was very long (so you know I'm in need of help). Then
all this
> crap about body bio and egos. Well, there maybe something to it and
there may
> not be. To waste precious time and energy to go back and read old
messages is
> taking time away from the importance of what this list has to offer.
>
> I'm on many other lists for autism because I'm in need of knowledge.
They
> have been much more supportive.
>
> My son was hospitalized after the MMR. He had a colonoscopy done 13
years
> ago. The Ped. GI said she never saw such inflamed intestines and
bowels
> before. There was only one clear spot the size of a quarter. No one
could
> give me a dx except for multiple food allergies. My mother died from
> Alzheimer's I have a two year old boy whom I'm trying to save from
the same
> fate of my older son.
>
> I feel like I'm not welcome on this list, and I don't even know if I
want to
> stay. I have 3 other stepsons and my life is very busy. I need to
get facts
> and help don't have time for flaming.
>
> Cindy