I was able to eat cilantro before my amalgams came out. After they came out my

iaomt DDS put me on cilantro drops, I tolerated them ok for about 2 months. Now

if I have a tiny bit I have HUGE MERCURY REDISTRIBUTION. Please heed Steve's

advice folks. I can't touch the stuff, big pain in my head, I agree with Andy,

BIG PROBLEM for some. Why risk hurting a child who may not communicate how awful

it is? Just my 2 cents. Alison. Don't do it. Major OWIEEE. Peace



Message: 1

    Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 04:15:22 -0000

    From: "steve_rotherham" <steve.rotherham@...>

Subject: Re: Preventive effect of cilantro



--- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Sircus Ac., OMD"

<director@i...> wrote:

> When I hear doctor Alex saying "Cilantro is cheap, effective,

atoxic and

> with my patients always works" a nice feeling arises, one of trust

for him

> and his experience with cilantro.



-- why do you a trust a man who has repeatedly been asked civilly to

explain how he administers cilantro and what doses and dosing

periods are safe, yet has failed to answer these questions?



If Andy refused to explain his protocol you would much less

forgiving.



>It stimulates my interest to explore

> cilantro more and I do have a scheduled writing project about it

since I am

> involved to one degree or another with two companies that have

natural

> chelator forumulas with cilantro.

-- I hope it is more objective than your post on magnesium oil and

it does not quote flakes like Dr Norman Shealy. Also, do you plan on

answering queries re magnesium glycinate? If you post writings on

magnesium on an autism list you really have to discus this form of

magnesium.



>I wish Andy you would keep more of an open

> mind about such things because in the future people will more and

more need

> inexpensive chelators that they can grow on their own or buy

inexpensively.



-- cost and convenience are important, but less important than

safety and efficacy. We need more info on these aspects of cilantro.



There have been many reports on negative efects of cilantro in

mercury toxic people. It is irresponsible to ignore these.



I would also add that it is irresponsbile and callous of you to

ignore the many postings by people who have experienced side-effects

with the Buttar protocol and had better results when switching to

the frequent dose protocol.



Despite your many postings aggressively advocating buttar's protocol

and attacking Andy's, you have not once adressed the many postings

that report better results with the frequent dose schedule.



The kids who were hurt by Buttar's system and benefitted from the

change in dosing schedules are real people. We should be driven by

their needs, not our own egos.



It is wrong to ignore reality in order to push your own barrow. But

it appears that his is precisely whart you intend to do again in

advocating cilantro.



Steve

I made a little tea myself to trial cilantro; 6 tsp oragnic leaves

brewed in hot water, then strained. After one day of 30cc every 4

hours, I was a mess. The deep bone pain I experiemced took a couple

of weeks to diminish and still recurs at night. I'll not be giving

it to my daughter! Mary B.







--- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Alison <ajarts@e...> wrote:

> I was able to eat cilantro before my amalgams came out. After they

came out my iaomt DDS put me on cilantro drops, I tolerated them ok

for about 2 months. Now if I have a tiny bit I have HUGE MERCURY

REDISTRIBUTION. Please heed Steve's advice folks. I can't touch the

stuff, big pain in my head, I agree with Andy, BIG PROBLEM for some.

Why risk hurting a child who may not communicate how awful it is?

Just my 2 cents. Alison. Don't do it. Major OWIEEE. Peace

>

> Message: 1

>    Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 04:15:22 -0000

>    From: "steve_rotherham" <steve.rotherham@b...>

> Subject: Re: Preventive effect of cilantro

>

> --- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Sircus Ac., OMD"

> <director@i...> wrote:

> > When I hear doctor Alex saying "Cilantro is cheap, effective,

> atoxic and

> > with my patients always works" a nice feeling arises, one of

trust

> for him

> > and his experience with cilantro.

>

> -- why do you a trust a man who has repeatedly been asked civilly

to

> explain how he administers cilantro and what doses and dosing

> periods are safe, yet has failed to answer these questions?

>

> If Andy refused to explain his protocol you would much less

> forgiving.

>

> >It stimulates my interest to explore

> > cilantro more and I do have a scheduled writing project about it

> since I am

> > involved to one degree or another with two companies that have

> natural

> > chelator forumulas with cilantro.

> -- I hope it is more objective than your post on magnesium oil and

> it does not quote flakes like Dr Norman Shealy. Also, do you plan

on

> answering queries re magnesium glycinate? If you post writings on

> magnesium on an autism list you really have to discus this form of

> magnesium.

>

> >I wish Andy you would keep more of an open

> > mind about such things because in the future people will more

and

> more need

> > inexpensive chelators that they can grow on their own or buy

> inexpensively.

>

> -- cost and convenience are important, but less important than

> safety and efficacy. We need more info on these aspects of

cilantro.

>

> There have been many reports on negative efects of cilantro in

> mercury toxic people. It is irresponsible to ignore these.

>

> I would also add that it is irresponsbile and callous of you to

> ignore the many postings by people who have experienced side-

effects

> with the Buttar protocol and had better results when switching to

> the frequent dose protocol.

>

> Despite your many postings aggressively advocating buttar's

protocol

> and attacking Andy's, you have not once adressed the many postings

> that report better results with the frequent dose schedule.

>

> The kids who were hurt by Buttar's system and benefitted from the

> change in dosing schedules are real people. We should be driven by

> their needs, not our own egos.

>

> It is wrong to ignore reality in order to push your own barrow.

But

> it appears that his is precisely whart you intend to do again in

> advocating cilantro.

>

> Steve

I thought I would weigh in here since it seems to me that my inquiries about

cilantro a few months back kind of started this on-going debate (not saying it

never came up before me, just it feels to me like I was "the instigator" for

this debate in recent months, so to speak).



I still have not had the chance to go through the many links in the archives

that I have in a file -- links to the posts which came up when I searched the

archive for cilantro.  But let me do an update on my personal experiences with

cilantro:



I just happened to meet someone at a restaurant of his choosing in May of 2004

-- a restaurant I had never been to.  After that, I began eating there fairly

regularly -- it was affordable, quick and the food was good.  I noticed that on

days when I ate there, I felt much better than on days when I did not.  So I

began trying to figure out *why*.  I found out as much as I could about what

spices they used and got some information on the medicinal effects of those

spices.  Later, I learned it is an organic restaurant.  I joined this forum in

November and learned that cilantro was a chelator and that seemed to be the

final piece of the puzzle:  the spices have medicinal properties which help with

my respiratory and other problems, the food is organic, and the cilantro had to

be chelating metals out of me.



I have now been eating lunch almost daily at this restaurant for about 16

months.  In recent weeks, I have had to change what I eat there.  When I order

the rice -- the primary source of cilantro on the menu (at least, as far as I

can tell) -- I now end up with a metalic taste in my mouth.  Some days, I can

tolerate it.  Some days, I cannot.  So it seems to me that I have chelated out

enough metals from my body that I now leaching metals from the two small

almalgams which remain in my mouth (I lost 5 molars in my early 30's, so the

teeth with the largest amalgams are gone) -- ie I think you could say that I am

now having problems with redistribution that I did not previously have.



I happened to stumble on something which worked for me.  But I do not actually

know what made this work for me.  I hope to put together some clues from the

archives to better understand what I have experienced.  I do not at this time

advocate that anyone experiment with cilantro unless, for some reason, they

cannot use other methods.  I got lucky.  And I do many things during the course

of each day to support my healing process which are confounding factors.  I

cannot separate out which factors helped make cilantro a safe chelator for me

and which are unrelated.  I have some guesses at this stage but no proof.



A few observations:



1) I consumed cilantro once a day, almost every day.  I did not use multiple

doses in a single day.  Generally speaking, on the rare occasion that I ate at

that restaurant twice in one day, I felt worse, not better.



2) I take hot baths every single day.  I know for a fact that hot baths can help

draw toxins out of the body through the skin and I suspect it helped make the

cilantro a safe chelator -- was one facto that prevented it from simply

redistributing metals within my body.  This may sound like a casual, easy answer

but I wouldn't agree with that assumption.  When I was deathly ill a few years

back and the doctors really had no answers, I began taking hot baths daily to

help me survive my undiagnosed, mysterious health problems.  At some point, I

began taking my temperature from both ears while in the tub (until the steam

finally ruined the thermometer).  After weeks or months of doing so, I drew some

conclusions about what temperture range was most effective, among other things. 

It is important that it not be too hot and not be too cool and that you try to

raise the temperature as evenly as possible across the entire body -- especially

the face and ears, which tend to be cooler than the

  rest of the body.  This means dunking your head under water, among other

things.  I no longer pay close attention to the details -- I have done it so

long, it is habit now.  But I made a concerted effort to study, as

scientifically as possible, how to make a hot bath effective in the face of

anti-biotic resistent infections.  So I wouldn't say you can willy-nilly fill

the tub with water and get similar results.



3. I began taking guafenisen in November to help me remain off antibiotics in

the winter.  I took it for probably 3 months or so.  Comparing my experiences at

that time with anecdotal stories on the web about what it feels like when

mercury exits the brain, I feel pretty strongly that the guafenisen was one

factor which helped make cilantro effective for me.  Coincidentally, guafenisen

is a treatment for fibromyalgia and it appears to purge something from the body

which helps fibromyalgia patients improve.  That fact fits with my subjective

experience that guafenisen seemed to interact with the on-going process that

started some months earlier and helped promote the removal of metals from my

brain and body.



4.  Around the same time that I began eating at this restaurant every day, I

also began taking glyconutrients.  Independent observation of days when I forgot

my glyconutrients made it clear that this was one of the things substantially

contributing to my healing process.  I cannot say how this interacted with

cilantro as a chelator but this may be part of why cilantro worked for me as a

safe chelator.



5. The glyconutrients helped me get off two presription drugs and stay off of

them.  There is no telling how drugs might interact with cilantro since -- as I

understand it -- we don't know the mechanism that makes cilantro mobilize

mercury.  I mention this because I stopped taking the prescription drugs and

began taking the glyconutrients around the same time I began eating at this

restaurant.  These are confounding factors that I cannot begin to even speculate

on.



6.  The other spices in the food at this restaurant have medicinal properties

which help treat other underlying medical conditions that I have and the

generally high quality of organic food also helps simply give me a foundation of

basic good health/support.  So it seems obvious to me that supporting basic good

health is an amelerioting factor, making my body more able to cope.  It seems

equally obvious to me that most folks in this forum deal with food issues and

many deal with other health problems.  So those are complicating factors that

make it impossible to say how one can optimally support cilantro as a chelator. 

(AGAIN:  I GOT VERY LUCKY.  I could not have planned these aspects of these

meals.  They just happened to co-exist with the cilantro in the food.)



In short:  cilantro appears to be a powerful chelator, I used what I would

classify as a low dose once per day, every day, for a long time -- which seems

to have made this as gentle a process as possible -- and I am now beginning to

have problems from eating it.  For the record:  I have NOT had a hair test and

all of my observations are anecdotal (supported by doing some reading).  I

consider this to be "food for thought", NOT any kind of scientific conclusion

that you can design a protocol around.



In closing, let me say again:

It just so happens that I was eating cilantro every single day for some months

BEFORE I came to this forum and learned it was a chelator.  I had stumbled upon

something -- food at a particular restaurant -- that worked for me.  I have been

trying to figure out why it worked ever since.  I have concluded that ONE of the

reasons it was helping me get well was that it was chelating metals out of me --

I used to have MANY large amalgams in my mouth and I know I am better off since

losing those 5 molars.  I GOT LUCKY and have been trying to figure out as much

as possible the details concerning how this worked.  If no one can tell you HOW

and WHY it works, I do not advocate you try to "replicate" what they did --

because you can't.  I have a mental model that is still being fleshed out.  I do

not expect to ever fully understand all the contributing/confounding factors as

to why this worked so well for me.  And, at this time, I am beginning to have

problems from consuming cilantro.  It

  worked well for me for a long time.  But now it isn't working so well.  I can

make guesses as to why but I can't really know why.



I don't really advocate that anyone try to do what I did (unless all other

options fail you).  I do not think it is replicable at this time.  My inquiries

into cilantro on this list have primarly been with the goal of UNDERSTANDING a

process that ALREADY occurred -- in the past (and somwhat on-going) -- for ME. 

That is a very different thing from trying to put together a protocol for FUTURE

use with a child.



HTH,































Michele in California



calif.michele@...

webmaster@...





Visit Michele's World! of (Twice) Exceptional Homeschooling

http://www.califmichele.com



"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." --

Albert Einstein



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michele, thanks for the explanation. I really believe there's more

than one way to skin our mercury cat, and glad to hear you found

something that worked for you. I know very little about cilantro &

chelation, but one thing struck me while reading your story. Do

Mexican/Spanish/other nationalities who eat lots of cilantro have

lower autism rates? Is it possible a mom eating cilantro regularly

might lower the maternal mercury levels that could be passed on to

baby? If she breastfeeds, could that further prevent mercury

poisoning? "food" for thought, lol.



Debi



--- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Michele <calif.michele@s...> wrote:

> I thought I would weigh in here since it seems to me that my

inquiries about cilantro a few months back kind of started this

on-going debate (not saying it never came up before me, just it feels

to me like I was "the instigator" for this debate in recent months, so

to speak).

>

> I still have not had the chance to go through the many links in the

archives that I have in a file -- links to the posts which came up

when I searched the archive for cilantro.  But let me do an update on

my personal experiences with cilantro:

>

> I just happened to meet someone at a restaurant of his choosing in

May of 2004 -- a restaurant I had never been to.  After that, I began

eating there fairly regularly -- it was affordable, quick and the food

was good.  I noticed that on days when I ate there, I felt much better

than on days when I did not.  So I began trying to figure out *why*.

I found out as much as I could about what spices they used and got

some information on the medicinal effects of those spices.  Later, I

learned it is an organic restaurant.  I joined this forum in November

and learned that cilantro was a chelator and that seemed to be the

final piece of the puzzle:  the spices have medicinal properties which

help with my respiratory and other problems, the food is organic, and

the cilantro had to be chelating metals out of me.

>

> I have now been eating lunch almost daily at this restaurant for

about 16 months.  In recent weeks, I have had to change what I eat

there.  When I order the rice -- the primary source of cilantro on the

menu (at least, as far as I can tell) -- I now end up with a metalic

taste in my mouth.  Some days, I can tolerate it.  Some days, I

cannot.  So it seems to me that I have chelated out enough metals from

my body that I now leaching metals from the two small almalgams which

remain in my mouth (I lost 5 molars in my early 30's, so the teeth

with the largest amalgams are gone) -- ie I think you could say that I

am now having problems with redistribution that I did not previously have.

>

> I happened to stumble on something which worked for me.  But I do

not actually know what made this work for me.  I hope to put together

some clues from the archives to better understand what I have

experienced.  I do not at this time advocate that anyone experiment

with cilantro unless, for some reason, they cannot use other methods.

  I got lucky.  And I do many things during the course of each day to

support my healing process which are confounding factors.  I cannot

separate out which factors helped make cilantro a safe chelator for me

and which are unrelated.  I have some guesses at this stage but no

proof.

>

> A few observations:

>

> 1) I consumed cilantro once a day, almost every day.  I did not use

multiple doses in a single day.  Generally speaking, on the rare

occasion that I ate at that restaurant twice in one day, I felt worse,

not better.

>

> 2) I take hot baths every single day.  I know for a fact that hot

baths can help draw toxins out of the body through the skin and I

suspect it helped make the cilantro a safe chelator -- was one facto

that prevented it from simply redistributing metals within my body.

This may sound like a casual, easy answer but I wouldn't agree with

that assumption.  When I was deathly ill a few years back and the

doctors really had no answers, I began taking hot baths daily to help

me survive my undiagnosed, mysterious health problems.  At some point,

I began taking my temperature from both ears while in the tub (until

the steam finally ruined the thermometer).  After weeks or months of

doing so, I drew some conclusions about what temperture range was most

effective, among other things.  It is important that it not be too hot

and not be too cool and that you try to raise the temperature as

evenly as possible across the entire body -- especially the face and

ears, which tend to be cooler than the

>  rest of the body.  This means dunking your head under water, among

other things.  I no longer pay close attention to the details -- I

have done it so long, it is habit now.  But I made a concerted effort

to study, as scientifically as possible, how to make a hot bath

effective in the face of anti-biotic resistent infections.  So I

wouldn't say you can willy-nilly fill the tub with water and get

similar results.

>

> 3. I began taking guafenisen in November to help me remain off

antibiotics in the winter.  I took it for probably 3 months or so.

Comparing my experiences at that time with anecdotal stories on the

web about what it feels like when mercury exits the brain, I feel

pretty strongly that the guafenisen was one factor which helped make

cilantro effective for me.  Coincidentally, guafenisen is a treatment

for fibromyalgia and it appears to purge something from the body which

helps fibromyalgia patients improve.  That fact fits with my

subjective experience that guafenisen seemed to interact with the

on-going process that started some months earlier and helped promote

the removal of metals from my brain and body.

>

> 4.  Around the same time that I began eating at this restaurant

every day, I also began taking glyconutrients.  Independent

observation of days when I forgot my glyconutrients made it clear that

this was one of the things substantially contributing to my healing

process.  I cannot say how this interacted with cilantro as a chelator

but this may be part of why cilantro worked for me as a safe chelator.

>

> 5. The glyconutrients helped me get off two presription drugs and

stay off of them.  There is no telling how drugs might interact with

cilantro since -- as I understand it -- we don't know the mechanism

that makes cilantro mobilize mercury.  I mention this because I

stopped taking the prescription drugs and began taking the

glyconutrients around the same time I began eating at this restaurant.

  These are confounding factors that I cannot begin to even speculate on.

>

> 6.  The other spices in the food at this restaurant have medicinal

properties which help treat other underlying medical conditions that I

have and the generally high quality of organic food also helps simply

give me a foundation of basic good health/support.  So it seems

obvious to me that supporting basic good health is an amelerioting

factor, making my body more able to cope.  It seems equally obvious to

me that most folks in this forum deal with food issues and many deal

with other health problems.  So those are complicating factors that

make it impossible to say how one can optimally support cilantro as a

chelator.  (AGAIN:  I GOT VERY LUCKY.  I could not have planned these

aspects of these meals.  They just happened to co-exist with the

cilantro in the food.)

>

> In short:  cilantro appears to be a powerful chelator, I used what I

would classify as a low dose once per day, every day, for a long time

-- which seems to have made this as gentle a process as possible --

and I am now beginning to have problems from eating it.  For the

record:  I have NOT had a hair test and all of my observations are

anecdotal (supported by doing some reading).  I consider this to be

"food for thought", NOT any kind of scientific conclusion that you can

design a protocol around.

>

> In closing, let me say again:

> It just so happens that I was eating cilantro every single day for

some months BEFORE I came to this forum and learned it was a chelator.

  I had stumbled upon something -- food at a particular restaurant --

that worked for me.  I have been trying to figure out why it worked

ever since.  I have concluded that ONE of the reasons it was helping

me get well was that it was chelating metals out of me -- I used to

have MANY large amalgams in my mouth and I know I am better off since

losing those 5 molars.  I GOT LUCKY and have been trying to figure out

as much as possible the details concerning how this worked.  If no one

can tell you HOW and WHY it works, I do not advocate you try to

"replicate" what they did -- because you can't.  I have a mental model

that is still being fleshed out.  I do not expect to ever fully

understand all the contributing/confounding factors as to why this

worked so well for me.  And, at this time, I am beginning to have

problems from consuming cilantro.  It

>  worked well for me for a long time.  But now it isn't working so

well.  I can make guesses as to why but I can't really know why.

>

> I don't really advocate that anyone try to do what I did (unless all

other options fail you).  I do not think it is replicable at this

time.  My inquiries into cilantro on this list have primarly been with

the goal of UNDERSTANDING a process that ALREADY occurred -- in the

past (and somwhat on-going) -- for ME.  That is a very different thing

from trying to put together a protocol for FUTURE use with a child.

>

> HTH,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Michele in California

>

> calif.michele@s...

> webmaster@c...

>

>

> Visit Michele's World! of (Twice) Exceptional Homeschooling

> http://www.califmichele.com

>

> "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by

understanding." -- Albert Einstein

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Michele <calif.michele@s...>

>wrote:

> And, at this time, I am beginning to have problems from consuming

>cilantro.  It

>  worked well for me for a long time.  But now it isn't working so

>well.  I can make guesses as to why but I can't really know why.



Michele,

Thanks for sharing your story with us.  I always appreciate your

thoughtful posts and your attention to detail.

I am wondering what happens when you use cilantro now.  Have you

stopped using it completely now?

Thanks

Linda

(I'd like to talk more but I have TWO teenagers, and a slow computer)

While I am making "corrections", let me note that my genetic disorder is also a

confounding factor:  as a general rule of thumb, I need between 1.5 and 2 times

as much of most nutrients as other people.  So I would have to say that would

certainly impact how much I absorb of whatever is in the cilantro which acts as

a chelator.  And there is no telling how else my genetic disorder impacts this

process.





Michele in California



calif.michele@...

webmaster@...





Visit Michele's World! of (Twice) Exceptional Homeschooling

http://www.califmichele.com



"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." --

Albert Einstein



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Debi,



>>>Do Mexican/Spanish/other nationalities who eat lots of cilantro have lower

autism rates?

-----

I have no idea what the figures are for other nations and I do not believe you

could draw any conclusions from raw numbers alone.  For example, Mexico has less

stringent environmental protection laws so exposure to toxic substances tend to

be higher.  Also, you are talking different gene pools and my best understanding

is that autism results from an interaction between genetic factors and

environmental factors.  Not everyone who has metal poisoning ends up with the

profile of issues which leads to a diagnosis of autism or ASD, presumably due in

part to genetic differences.  So comparing different gene pools introduces a

confounding factor that you cannot readily account for.  And that is just what I

can think of off the top of my head as to why comparing raw numbers like that

would not be very meaningful.



----



>>>Is it possible a mom eating cilantro regularly might lower the maternal

mercury levels that could be passed on to baby?

----

If you are asking about eating cilantro DURING the pregnancy, that could be an

extremely dangerous thing to do which could actually increase fetal exposure to

mercury.  I am no expert but people on this list are very adamant that one

should NOT have fillings removed (as one example) while pregnant.  So I would

think that doing anything to mobilize mercury while pregnant is an incredibly

dangerous experiment on your unborn child.  Perhaps others on this list can

state more clearly that mobilizing mercury WHILE pregnant is known to be

harmful.  I am not knowledgeable enough to state for sure one way or the other.



-------

>>>If she breastfeeds, could that further prevent mercury poisoning?

-----

My personal feeling is that cilantro by itself is insufficient (I think it

requires other supporting factors to promote excretion) and my personal opinion

is that this is part of why other people have reported such negative

experiences.  Additionally, breast milk passes SOME things but not others from

mom to baby -- or so I understand it (someone please correct me if I am wrong). 

So I have no idea if the active ingredient would even pass to the baby.  Even if

it does get passed to the baby, I can't imagine how you would estimate a "dose"

for the mom to consume for it to be a safe amount for the baby.  I think eating

cilantro thinking it might help your breast-fed baby would be a dangerous

experiment.



In addition to my daily hot baths, I also think glyconutrients and guafenisen

(and other things, which I am not sure enough about to name) helped make

cilantro a safe, effective chelator for me.  So I think you are really

oversimplifying my experience quite a bit to talk about just "eating cilantro". 

If you cannot understand and quantify the process, it can be extremely

hit-or-miss and, thus, dangerous.  And your oversimplification of my comments

makes me feel the need to state more clearly that my comments were NOT intended

to suggest one can simply eat cilantro as "an easy answer":



Please note the title of the message I chose to respond to:  NO cilantro.  I did

not choose one of the other messages that were titled "Cilantro".  I chose the

one titled "NO cilantro" because my intent was to tell a cautionary tale: 

cilantro is a chelator, but no one on this list can give you adequate

instruction on how to use it safely.  The negative reports outnumber the

positive ones.  My experience was not planned.  I stumbled upon something which

worked and have been trying ever since to figure out why it worked.  The fact

that it worked so very well in spite of my total ignorance puts it in the

category of either freakishly good luck or "a miracle".  I cannot tell you how

to achieve the same result.  PLEASE do not take my story as encouragement to

experiment with cilantro unless all of the better known, safer methods have

already failed you.































































































Michele in California



calif.michele@...

webmaster@...





Visit Michele's World! of (Twice) Exceptional Homeschooling

http://www.califmichele.com



"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." --

Albert Einstein



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michele, not to worry, I wasn't even beginning to think of cilantro

experimentation or suggest any of this, it was more of a thinking out

loud to see if anyone knows of any stats on populations from cultures

that use cilantro. It wasn't an attempt to convey a statistical

inference, just chatting.



Debi



--- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Michele <calif.michele@s...> wrote:

> Hi Debi,

>

> >>>Do Mexican/Spanish/other nationalities who eat lots of cilantro

have lower autism rates?

> -----

> I have no idea what the figures are for other nations and I do not

believe you could draw any conclusions from raw numbers alone.  For

example, Mexico has less stringent environmental protection laws so

exposure to toxic substances tend to be higher.  Also, you are talking

different gene pools and my best understanding is that autism results

from an interaction between genetic factors and environmental factors.

  Not everyone who has metal poisoning ends up with the profile of

issues which leads to a diagnosis of autism or ASD, presumably due in

part to genetic differences.  So comparing different gene pools

introduces a confounding factor that you cannot readily account for.

And that is just what I can think of off the top of my head as to why

comparing raw numbers like that would not be very meaningful.

>

> ----

>

> >>>Is it possible a mom eating cilantro regularly might lower the

maternal mercury levels that could be passed on to baby?

> ----

> If you are asking about eating cilantro DURING the pregnancy, that

could be an extremely dangerous thing to do which could actually

increase fetal exposure to mercury.  I am no expert but people on this

list are very adamant that one should NOT have fillings removed (as

one example) while pregnant.  So I would think that doing anything to

mobilize mercury while pregnant is an incredibly dangerous experiment

on your unborn child.  Perhaps others on this list can state more

clearly that mobilizing mercury WHILE pregnant is known to be harmful.

  I am not knowledgeable enough to state for sure one way or the other.

>

> -------

> >>>If she breastfeeds, could that further prevent mercury poisoning?

> -----

> My personal feeling is that cilantro by itself is insufficient (I

think it requires other supporting factors to promote excretion) and

my personal opinion is that this is part of why other people have

reported such negative experiences.  Additionally, breast milk passes

SOME things but not others from mom to baby -- or so I understand it

(someone please correct me if I am wrong).  So I have no idea if the

active ingredient would even pass to the baby.  Even if it does get

passed to the baby, I can't imagine how you would estimate a "dose"

for the mom to consume for it to be a safe amount for the baby.  I

think eating cilantro thinking it might help your breast-fed baby

would be a dangerous experiment.

>

> In addition to my daily hot baths, I also think glyconutrients and

guafenisen (and other things, which I am not sure enough about to

name) helped make cilantro a safe, effective chelator for me.  So I

think you are really oversimplifying my experience quite a bit to talk

about just "eating cilantro".  If you cannot understand and quantify

the process, it can be extremely hit-or-miss and, thus, dangerous.

And your oversimplification of my comments makes me feel the need to

state more clearly that my comments were NOT intended to suggest one

can simply eat cilantro as "an easy answer":

>

> Please note the title of the message I chose to respond to:  NO

cilantro.  I did not choose one of the other messages that were titled

"Cilantro".  I chose the one titled "NO cilantro" because my intent

was to tell a cautionary tale:  cilantro is a chelator, but no one on

this list can give you adequate instruction on how to use it safely.

The negative reports outnumber the positive ones.  My experience was

not planned.  I stumbled upon something which worked and have been

trying ever since to figure out why it worked.  The fact that it

worked so very well in spite of my total ignorance puts it in the

category of either freakishly good luck or "a miracle".  I cannot tell

you how to achieve the same result.  PLEASE do not take my story as

encouragement to experiment with cilantro unless all of the better

known, safer methods have already failed you.

>

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> Michele in California

>

> calif.michele@s...

> webmaster@c...

>

>

> Visit Michele's World! of (Twice) Exceptional Homeschooling

> http://www.califmichele.com

>

> "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by

understanding." -- Albert Einstein

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Michele <calif.michele@s...>

>wrote:

> And, at this time, I am beginning to have problems from consuming

>cilantro. It

> worked well for me for a long time. But now it isn't working so

>well. I can make guesses as to why but I can't really know why.



Michele,

Thanks for sharing your story with us. I always appreciate your

thoughtful posts and your attention to detail.

I am wondering what happens when you use cilantro now. Have you

stopped using it completely now?

Thanks

-----------

Linda,

I am consuming less of it and I often have a metalic taste in my mouth from

doing so.  I believe that means that my body has cleared enough of the metals

that the cilantro is now pulling from the remaining amalgams in my mouth, thus

putting more metals into me, sigh (AGAIN: I have never had a hair test! -- so I

have no objective measure of any of this).  What I order for lunch has changed

several times in the last 16 months.  I am reluctant to stop eating at this

restaurant because the high quality of the organic food, low cost, and other

factors have made this such a good fit for me.  This has been a cornerstone of

my diet for 16 months and my genetic disorder means that eating has always been

a real hassle for me.  So I am afraid that I am kind of being dragged away

kicking and screaming. :-(



I believe that there is cilantro in some of the food other than the rice.  Most

days, I no longer order the rice.  I think I am still getting SOME cilantro, but

a lot less -- but, again, I have no means to measure how much since I don't make

any of this food.



Last year in the summer, I would feel obviously a LOT better on days when I ate

at this restaurant and obviously a lot worse when I skipped it.  As I grew

stronger, the degree of difference was less severe as long as I *usually* had

lunch there -- ie skipping one day wasn't a real big deal but skipping two days

meant I could really feel the difference.  And when I first began eating there,

I would usually come home and take a hot bath within the hour and then nap.  And

I could tell I was sleeping the way you sleep when you heal.  It was really

apparent that the food had a big impact on me.  And gradually, it became

less...um...pronounced.  The impact was there but subtler.



As I grew healthier, I ordered smaller portions of things and I think that

gradually reduce the amount of cilantro I was eating.  I used to order EXTRA

rice with my food.  Initially, I believed it was because I have always had

trouble eating and I tend to eat bland food.  After I joined this list and

realized cilantro was a chelator and the rice was the main source of cilantro, I

realized that the extra rice might be a desire for more cilantro, not simply a

desire for something bland to fill up on when I had difficulty eating and was

just picking at the meat and veggies and struggling to eat enough to feel full. 

I can't really say when I stopped ordering "extra" rice.  I think it must have

been some time earlier this year, in the spring.



In (roughly) the last two or three weeks, I have begun not liking the food as

much and have begun having this metallic taste in my mouth.  I would like to get

the two remaining amalgams removed at some time but I do not think that is

feasible any time soon (I am in the midst of a divorce, recently moved, etc). 

So, in the last week (or two?), most days, I do not order the rice.  When I do,

I have a metallic taste again for at least 48 hours -- which really discourages

me from ordering it again.  I have not felt well the last couple of weeks and

with my genetic disorder, allergies, etc. it gets really tricky to figure out

which problems come from where.  I KNOW some of my symptoms are due to pollens

and other things I have been exposed to outside but it seems to me I cannot

fully account for all of it, so I have to wonder if some of it is from metals

being redistributed.  I do not think this is a big health crisis (yet!) --

except that I am really upset at the idea of no longer eating

  lunch at this restaurant!  But I am leaning more towards working on an

alternative because I am beginning to feel that I am less well for eating there

here lately, not more well.  Changing habits like that is always a big deal for

me because of my disorder.  (whine, whine).  And this change was relatively

sudden.  With the hurricane and everything, I don't think I really thought it

all through until I tried to answer your question.



I have begun having headaches here lately.  Usually that is from an allergic

reaction and when that is true, antihistamines usually resolve it.  The

antihistamines seem insufficient, so it seems increasingly likely that on top of

whatever allergic reactions I am having, there may be another cause.



I think I have just talked myself into not eating lunch there tomorrow.  Bummer.

:-/



So, in short:  in the last two weeks or so, I am not well and can no longer seem

to chalk it all up to "pollen" (etc); I am having "new-ish" symptoms that are

not my normal problems; I am having a metallic taste in my mouth which is worse

in direct relation to how much cilantro I have consumed; and I seem LESS

energetic after lunch rather than MORE energetic.  I think that about covers it.



Now I feel like sucking my thumb.  I want my blankie.  :-P



And thank you for asking.  I really had NOT thought it all through.  I was aware

of some of this but had not drawn any clear conclusions -- in part because it

takes time to observe a clear pattern.  My health issues are complex and things

creep up on me and can take time to sort out.  So I think I really need to stop

eating at this restaurant, if only to see what the result is.



















Michele in California



calif.michele@...

webmaster@...





Visit Michele's World! of (Twice) Exceptional Homeschooling

http://www.califmichele.com



"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." --

Albert Einstein



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Update:  After writing it all out last night and realizing that my recent

symptoms were most likely from mercury redistribution, I took additional

guafenisen and glyconutrients.  My headache -- which had not substantially

improved in response to ibuprofen and antihistamines -- improved dramatically

within minutes.  Shortly thereafter, I went to bed.  So, a few additional

realizations:



A) Historically, I am not a morning person and I am usually much more productive

in the evening.  This has not been true in the last few days or couple of weeks

or so.  I have really been dragging in the evenings.  This morning I feel much

better -- much more clear-headed and the like -- than I usually do in the

morning.  I think that my lack of productivity in the evenings here lately is

due to mercury leaching out of my amalgams in the hours following lunch.  My

evenings have been really crappy here lately -- which has been extremely

frustrating since I count on getting things done in the evening, after taking

care of myself all day makes me functional enough to work.



B) The metallic taste in my mouth is much reduced this morning.



C) I have had more viral issues in the last couple of weeks, unusually stubborn

ones which have not cleared up in response to the things which usually work. 

Improvements have been short-lived and it has been kind of a cyclical thing --

getting better, then worse.  I have less of a sore throat and other viral

symptoms this morning (and normally mornings are when I am at my sickest).



D) Looking back on it, I was more clear-headed yesterday prior to lunch and

really went downhill afterwards -- again, the opposite of "the norm" for me.



E)  I realized last night that I have recently been taking two hot baths a lot

of days instead of one.  I didn't feel well and the hot baths helped (but not

enough).  I know hot baths help the body purge things through the skin.



F) My period started last night following a hot bath and I had some cramping in

the evening.  These are both unusual for me.  When I get a normal period, I

usually wake up with it in the morning and, although I had a lot of cramping and

other problems when I was younger, cramping is unusual these days.  Both the way

my period started and the cramping are consistent with other times when my

period was apparently part of a purging process.



I think one thing I can suggest for others is that if you have a bad reaction to

cilantro, taking guafenisen (and/or glyconutrients) may ameliorate that.  I felt

worse in some ways for a few minutes but it was in a manner which struck me as

"purging" -- coughing hard, for example.  My headache was much reduced,

surprisingly quickly.  Of course, I went to sleep shortly thereafter and slept

well, so I was not awake to observe anything more than that (however, sleeping

well is a pretty significant thing for me by itself, so I think that alone says

something).  Guafenisen is known to purge SOMETHING (I do not know what and

can't remember if it is known) from the body in fibromyalgia patients and is

apparently one of the few things known to actually improve the condition of

fibromyalgia patients over the long term.  And it is an expectorant -- ie it

promotes the lungs purging things by coughing them up.  I did briefly have a

rough cough last night, just before falling asleep.



I also wonder if guafenisen might ameliorate redistribution after that "last

dose" that Moria was talking about in a recent e-mail (yesterday?).  Thinking

back on it, I believe I was taking guafenisen when I began eating at this

restaurant, I was just doing so on an "as needed" basis.  I then ran out of it

and a few weeks later began to get sick.  I went to the ER at the beginning of

November to specifically request guafenisen to avoid ending up on antibiotics. 

I was given a month's supply and slept a GREAT DEAL that month -- saying things

to people like "I have been asleep all month".  A talked to a friend of mine

about this and she made me hand-packed guafenisen capsules without any dyes or

additives.  I received the package when I had only 2 or 3 pills left from my

prescription.  So when I say I took guafenisen for 3 months, really, I am saying

I took it very consistently during that time.  Since then, I have resumed taking

it "as needed" -- and I have taken it more consistently

  in the last 2 or 3 weeks as well, because I seemed to need it every single day.



There are other big (positive) changes in my life and in my physical health

since moving to a new apartment in May.  I don't really know what to say about

that aspect of it but it seems like a combination of things is going on here.



I hope that information is useful to a few people.  It has been very useful to

me to write it all out and, in the process, think it through somewhat.







































Michele in California



calif.michele@...

webmaster@...





Visit Michele's World! of (Twice) Exceptional Homeschooling

http://www.califmichele.com



"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." --

Albert Einstein



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debi,

Thank you for clarifying.  And let me now say that I was probably overreacting

since, as I explained in a couple of other posts, I have been inadvertently

making myself sick with my cilantro-laden lunch -- more than I realized.  It

SEEMED like a good idea when I wrote it. :-P



Tomorrow will be a great new day, me thinks. :-)





Michele in California



calif.michele@...

webmaster@...





Visit Michele's World! of (Twice) Exceptional Homeschooling

http://www.califmichele.com



"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." --

Albert Einstein



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lol, don't you love those words from Scarlett?



Debi



--- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, Michele <calif.michele@s...> wrote:

> Debi,

> Thank you for clarifying.  And let me now say that I was probably

overreacting since, as I explained in a couple of other posts, I have

been inadvertently making myself sick with my cilantro-laden lunch --

more than I realized.  It SEEMED like a good idea when I wrote it. :-P

>

> Tomorrow will be a great new day, me thinks. :-)

>

>

> Michele in California

>

> calif.michele@s...

> webmaster@c...

>

>

> Visit Michele's World! of (Twice) Exceptional Homeschooling

> http://www.califmichele.com

>

> "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by

understanding." -- Albert Einstein

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]