I like the Kiss method as well. We are down to once a day dosing and
it is not a problem. I think the problem is theoritical and if true
may be increased by increasing the time the DMSA is kept active as
the body goes thru many changes in a 24 hr period. We just give a
daily dose and its out. We take other measures to protect the brain,
melatonin and NA Cystine . Beverly
In Autism-Mercury@egroups.com, "robert dabney" <ltldab1@j...> wrote:
> --I AM NOT SO SURE THAT ALL OF THIS ON OFFS AND SUCH ARE SO
> NECESSARY, I LIKE TO KISS A PROBLEM Keep It Simple Stupid KISS I
AM
> CURRENTLY USING ABOUT 2000mg OF Chemet A DAY FOR 5 DAYS, VITAMINS
ONE
> DAY, NOTHING ONE DAY, SEEMS TO WORK. PS THIS IS NOT A MISS PRINT I
> AM USING A BOTTLE OF 100 CAPSULES AT 100mg PER CAP A WEEK. Robert-
> In Autism-Mercury@egroups.com, Amy Holmes <aholmesmd@p...> wrote:
> > Bernie,
> >
> > I am aware of the Huggins book, and his "findings" regarding
> > the 7/14/21 nature of the immune system. This is not even good
> basic
> > science and makes no clinical sense at all.
> >
> > Amy
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------ Reply Separator --------------------
> > Originally From: Bernard Windham <berniew1@e...>
> > Subject: Re: [Autism-Mercury] Chelation protocol for Autistic
> > Children?
> > Date: 09/10/2000 09:39am
> >
> >
> > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
> > -------------------------~-~>
> > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates
> > of 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Ongoing APR* and no annual fee!
> > Apply NOW!
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/9146/9/_/705339/_/968593327/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -_
> > ->
> >
> > regarding 3 on, 11 off; or 7 on, 7 off DMSA, are you aware of
> > Huggins
> > warning against such protocols?? He says that the immune
system
> has
> > a
> > 7/14/21 day cycle
> > and you should not introduce a challange to the immune system on
> this
> > pattern. Cites clinical experience and studies in Uniformed
> Consent,
> > his
> > new book. Do you know anything about this??
> > Bernie
> >
> > Amy Holmes wrote:
> >
> > > Maranie,
> > >
> > > I hope you mean 3-day on/11 day off !!!!! Otherwise we could
all
> be
> > > in trouble!!!
> > >
> > > I just got back from the Mercury Toxicity workshop in Dallas.
> Very
> > > informative. Stephanie Cave and I were lucky enough to have a
> long
> > > discussion with some really great researchers. From everything
> > > we've been able to piece together, it looks like mercury is a
big
> > > culprit in autism - maybe the biggest. But, it doesn't look
like
> > > most cases are purely mercury and mercury alone. There are some
> > > other heavy metals that play a big part, both by themselves and
by
> > > (horrors of all horrors) potentiating the toxicity of mercury.
> And
> > > there are several non-metal toxins we need to take a very close
> > > look at - like hexane and xylene, among others. Many of these
are
> > > toxic to the brain by themselves and exacerbate the toxicity of
> the
> > > heavy metals.
> > >
> > > Most felt that autism was most likely a neurotoxic disease - and
> > > that is a huge step forward. A few cases were presented showing
> > > dramatic improvements (like "normalization") in autistic
children
> > > after complete detoxification.
> > >
> > > There is a lot of work to do. Like:
> > > 1. We need a battery of tests to completely assess toxin load,
> > > both metal and non-metal. This looks reasonably easy.
> > > 2. We need a quick, non-invasive (no more invasive than a blood
> > draw)
> > > way of assessing brain mercury load and effect on brain of the
> > > mercury present there. A promising lead may be the BB fraction
of
> > > CPK, but this might not pan out.
> > > 3. We need a safe and effective protocol of getting rid of all
the
> > > toxins. This part doesn't look extremely hard at the present
> time.
> > > It just needs to be put in a coherent whole and in order.
> > >
> > > There was a lot of data presented about mercury vapor exposure
> from
> > > amalgams - and (more pertinent to us) the fact that this mercury
> > > can be (and more than likely is) transmitted to the fetus. And
> > > the transport of amalgam-derived mercury through breast milk.
> This
> > > stuff really shook me up because I have a mouth full of
amalgam!!
> > > The extreme toxicity of organic forms of mercury were very
> apparent.
> > > But, it became rapidly apparent to us, at least, that as much
as
> we
> > > would like to, we cannot blame the mercury in the vaccines for
all
> > > the mercury in our kids. And mercury is not the total problem.
> > >
> > > So, the good news is that autism is really beginning to look
like
> > > a neurotoxic problem, with all the other biochemical problems
> > > secondary to the presence of the toxins. This is good news
> because
> > > this is something we have a chance of fixing. (I like things I
can
> > > fix. I don't like hopeless conditions!)
> > >
> > > And it appears that, if you can get these toxins out at a
> reasonably
> > > early age, the child can be "indistinguishable from his peers".
> > > Personally, I don't care if my son is a party animal or not, but
> > > "indistinguishable from his peers" is my goal.
> > >
> > > Also, for the older kids (teenagers), more than likely getting
the
> > > toxins out is not going to completely normalize them, but you
may
> > > be able to avoid or fix the problems relating to violence and
> > > uncontrollable behavior. I have some patients in this very
> > situation,
> > > so this is of interest to me. I hate the thought of these kids
> > > winding up in an institution because of uncontrollable
behavior,
> so
> > > I hoping this may be their ticket out of this horrible fix.
> > >
> > > Mike is demanding my presence. He is very bossy, but he is
> > talking!!!
> > >
> > > Amy
> > >
> > > ------------------ Reply Separator --------------------
> > > Originally From: "Maranie" <adams6@c...>
> > > Subject: Re: [Autism-Mercury] Chelation protocol for Autistic
> > > Children?
> > > Date: 05/02/2000 12:25pm
> > >
> > > KB,
> > >
> > > Our son's doctor is Dr. Amy Holmes, from Baton Rouge. You have
> seen
> > > her post here before, probably! She is a DAN doctor and has
our
> son
> > > on a three day on, three day off regimen. He gets 100mg of
DMSA
> > three
> > > times a day while on the three day on segment. During that
time
> he
> > > doesn't get any other minerals supplemented. During the eleven
> days
> > > off, we load him up with all his vitamins, and supplements. I
> > trust
> > > her immensely, as she is also doing/done this program with her
own
> > > son. Hope this helps!
> > >
> > > Maranie
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: kwandy
> > > To: Autism-Mercury@egroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 10:58 AM
> > > Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Chelation protocol for Autistic
> > Children?
> > >
> > > Lyn and others,
> > >
> > > It would be great if we could get some type of written
protocol
> > for
> > > chelating our children in a safe and effective manner. There
> seems
> > to
> > > be so many differing opinions on which supplements to take and
how
> > > often chelation should be done, dosages, etc.. Do you think
such
> a
> > > thing might be forthcoming out of the upcoming DAN!
conference?
> Dr.
> > > Woody McGinnis? It would be nice to see something from the DAN!
> > > doctors since they seem to have a better handle on some of the
> > > metabolic issues that many our children face.
> > >
> > > KB, Calif
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Lyn Redwood
> > > To: Autism-Mercury@egroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 5:42 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Autism-Mercury] Re: ALA vs DMSA .. DMSA
appears
> > more
> > > proven and more effective
> > >
> > > Ray,
> > > Could you post your low dose DMSA protocol? I would be very
> > > curious to look
> > > it over. I believe we used "high dose" on our son
initially
> and
> > > would like
> > > to see your numbers for comparison. Also, many parents on
the
> > > list have
> > > been asking for exact doses per kg.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Lyn
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <chelationsafety@y...>
> > > To: <Autism-Mercury@egroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 4:09 PM
> > > Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Re: ALA vs DMSA .. DMSA appears
more
> > > proven and
> > > more effective
> > >
> > > > > (2) Unless I've missed something, the argument that
DMSA
> > takes
> > > > >mercury out of the brain appears to be based on one rat
> > study.
> > > >
> > > > With all respect ( NMA = no medical advise } :
> > > >
> > > > You possibly might have, as there are more than 1 study
that
> > > have
> > > > showed DMSA reduces brain mercury, at least 5 following
> > > > different studies from different authors :
> > > >
> > > > 1. 1992 PhD Haley studies showed that DMSA prevented /
> reduced
> > > > the post-mercury toxicity caused tubulin impairments
in
> the
> > > > brains caused by mercury
> > > >
> > > > 2. Decreasing 203Hg retention by intraperitoneal
treatment
> > with
> > > > monoalkyl esters of meso-2,3-dimercaptosuccinic acid in
> rats.
> > > > Kostial K; Blanusa M; Simonovic I; Jones MM; Singh PK
> > > > J Appl Toxicol, 1993 Sep, 13:5, 321-5
> > > >
> > > > ( Also showed brain mercury reduction by DMSA. )
> > > >
> > > > 3. A methylmercury toxicity model to test for possible
> adverse
> > > > effects resulting from chelating agent therapy.
> > > > Kostyniak PJ; Soiefer AI
> > > > J Appl Toxicol, 1984 Aug, 4:4, 206-10
> > > >
> > > > ( also mentions DMSA as effective for reducing brain
> mercury )
> > > >
> > > > 4. Accumulation and removal of Hg203 in different regions
> of
> > the
> > > rat
> > > > brain.
> > > > Butterworth RF; Gonce M; Barbeau A
> > > > Can J Neurol Sci, 1978 Nov, 5:4, 397-400
> > > > We have studied the brain regional distribution of methyl
> > > mercury
> > > > following intravenous administration of CH3 203HgCl in
rat.
> > > Early
> > > > peak levels were obtained in cerebellum, medulla
oblongata
> and
> > > > midbrain. The efficacy of removal of 203Hg by different
> > > chelators is
> > > > also region dependent. The most efficient chelator for
brain
> > > mercury
> > > > proved to be mesodimercaptosuccinic acid. ( read = DMSA )
> > > >
> > > > 5. The effects of dimercaptosuccinic acid on the
excretion
> and
> > > > distribution of mercury in rats and mice treated with
> mercuric
> > > > chloride and methylmercury chloride.
> > > > Magos L
> > > > Br J Pharmacol, 1976 Apr, 56:4, 479-84
> > > > - snipped -
> > > > 3 DMSA was effective in decreasing body burden and the
> brain
> > > > concentration of Hg in rats dosed orally with
methylmercury
> > > (MeHgCl)
> > > > when intraperitoneal treatment started with 40 mg/kg DMSA
> 24 h
> > > after
> > > > Hg.
> > > > - snipped -
> > > >
> > > > > There is another
> > > > > paper that said it didn't take it out of the brain, so
> from
> > my
> > > > > perspective, the jury is still out
> > > >
> > > > So far, it is at least 5-2 for the favor that it is proven
> > > > DMSA does reduce mercury in the brain.
> > > >
> > > > > (3) Regarding lipoic acid, I've read extensively on this
> > > substance -
> > > > > research articles plus there is an entire book
> > > >
> > > > There is lots of non-scienceliterature not based on any
> > > > proven studies, as far as it comes only to proven science
> > > > studies :
> > > >
> > > > There is proof that LA is not effective as a chelator, the
> > > > reference I posted, that it was inferior compared to DMSA
as
> > > > heavy metal chelator, furthermore, there are no 5 studies
> that
> > > it
> > > > would reduce mercury as well as DMSA, and there are at
> least 2
> > > > studies showing it is inferior compared to DMSA, I can
> repost
> > > the
> > > > other one, if necessary, where LA was shown to be the
second
> > > > least effective mercury chelator after EDTA.
> > > >
> > > > There are 0 studies that LA would be superior to DMSA in
> > > > anything but as antioxidant only.
> > > >
> > > > These are the scientifically proven facts, not popular
> > > > supplement textbooks to sell for profit peedling non-
proven
> > > > opinions.
> > > >
> > > > > (4) My logic would tell me that, (a) if I'm not sure
that
> > DMSA
> > > > > does/doesn't take Hg out of the brain because the
> research
> > is
> > > weak,
> > > > (b)
> > > > > why not hedge my bets with ALA and add it in,
especially
> > since
> > > (c)
> > > > > researchers and pharmacists who actually deal with ALA
say
> > > it's
> > > > > quitesafe.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, if you want a good antioxidant, and do not suffer
from
> > > > copper, cadmium, methyl-mercury or iron poisonings, then
LA
> > > > is safe as antioxidant, but it is ineffective as chelator
> > > > proven by several comparative studies comparing DMSA to
LA,
> > > > which all showed DMSA more effective, so if you want
> > chelating,
> > > > LA is not it, especially as monotherapy, but if you want
> > > > antioxidant only, LA is a good antioxidant given the
> > limitations
> > > > that it impairs detox of copper, cadmium, methyl-mercury
and
> > > > can cause free radicals with Fe3+ after reduction to DHLA
in
> > > > vivo.
> > > >
> > > > DMSA is quite safe also when properly used by
professionals
> > > > aware of the proper low-dose oral protocols.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > (5) It seems like those who've had a bad experience
with
> ALA
> > > have
> > > > > either had a too high dose, weren't doing it every 3-4
> > hours,
> > > or
> > > > > were using DMSA or DMPS concurrently in potentially
> > > suboptimal
> > > > > dosage schemes.
> > > >
> > > > As well as because of the wrong LA-enantiomers, which
> impairs
> > > > variety of metabolic enzymes, and with that, no schedules
> > > > can change the issue. There are plenty poor LA products
> > > > out there that are hamful, that contain 50 % or more of
> > > > of the wrong enantioner, and other impurities.
> > > >
> > > > Furthermore, LA has been proven to deplete liver
glutahtione
> > > > and can impair liver copper, cadmium and methyl-mercury
> > > > detox, so the worsenings can be from those effects of LA
> > > > mainly.
> > > >
> > > > LA also impairs liver glycinate pathway, and can cause
> > > > toxicities accumulate that would need that pathway working
> > > > well.
> > > >
> > > > There is also Vanessa's report on dmpsbackfire site of
> > > > how LA+DMPS with the 3-4 hour protocol in the actual doses
> > > > in the protocol worsened her.
> > > >
> > > > Also, PhD Chemist Gary Cohen worsened from LA, and it
> appears
> > > > most all LA products, no matter what dose size or timing,
> > > > worsen him,and I have side-effect reports from several
> others
> > > > who worsened from LA, so it is not safe as water much more
> > > > than DMPS or DMSA, while IMPExperience, DMPS is the worst,
> > > > and DMSA and LA are similar range in side-effects, and
side
> > > > effect frequencies ( I have as many LA as DMSA side-effect
> > > > reports, but 10 x their report count of DMPS side-effect
> > > > reports, ) while both my 9+ years of practical and
> theoretical
> > > > research has shown that DMSA is much more effective as
> > > > chelator than LA ( have also practical experience of 5
years
> > > > of both DMSA and LA, 9+ years of DMPS, 9+ years of NAC +
> GSH,
> > > > 8+ years of EDTA etc ... ) for clearing the brains.
> > > >
> > > > I personally do recommend LA only as energy-metabolism
> > > > enhancer ( it is acetyl-co-A cofactor just like Thiamin,
> > > > and together thiamin, la and biotin + p5p give nice
> > > > metabolic energy boost in moderate doses { 25-50 mg la,
> > > > 50 mg benfotiamin, 50 mg p5p, 5-20 mg biotin } AND
> > > > antioxidant, but for chelation, there is no beating
> > > > DMSA as neural chelator for safety/effectivity ratio.
> > > >
> > > > Not that DMSA is 100 % safe either, but it can be used
> > > > quite safely with my 1991 originated 'start-low-dose-
> > > > ramp-up-slow' tolerance/screening protocol, which has
> > > > been also in the web in abbreviated form since 1995,
> > > > and on mailing lists years before other copies of my
> > > > original concept, including more frequent lower doses,
> > > > which I discussed first time 1996 on amalgam list,
> > > > over single giant doses, and later on, some copycats
> > > > have copied my pioneering concepts. I originated DMPS-
> > > > injection warnings since 1991, as I got damaged, and
> > > > interviewed and located numerous others who had also
> > > > gotten damage, so I had to do something about it, and
> > > > that something was developing oral low dose princible,
> > > > and also the concept of not having infrequent giant
> > > > injections rather than more frequent low oral doses,
> > > > and ramping up slow from low initial doses.
> > > >
> > > > The proof of my originating these is in the amalgma
> > > > list archives, and communications I educated US
> > > > doctors and researchers since 1992 and Scandinavians
> > > > since 1991.
> > > >
> > > > Regards, Ray Saarela, Chelation Safety and
> > > > Safer Chelation research since 1991, since
> > > > 1995 in the Web.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > > --
> > > > Life's to short to send boring email. Let SuperSig come
to
> the
> > > rescue.
> > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/3805/4/_/705339/_/957211766/
> > > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > > --
> > > >
> > > > Community email addresses:
> > > > Post message: Autism-Mercury@onelist.com
> > > > Subscribe: Autism-Mercury-subscribe@onelist.com
> > > > Unsubscribe: Autism-Mercury-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> > > > List owner: Autism-Mercury-owner@onelist.com
> > > >
> > > > Shortcut URL to this page:
> > > > http://www.onelist.com/community/Autism-Mercury
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > > ------
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > > ------
> > > Community email addresses:
> > > Post message: Autism-Mercury@onelist.com
> > > Subscribe: Autism-Mercury-subscribe@onelist.com
> > > Unsubscribe: Autism-Mercury-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> > > List owner: Autism-Mercury-owner@onelist.com
> > >
> > > Shortcut URL to this page:
> > > http://www.onelist.com/community/Autism-Mercury
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > > --------
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > > --------
> > > Community email addresses:
> > > Post message: Autism-Mercury@onelist.com
> > > Subscribe: Autism-Mercury-subscribe@onelist.com
> > > Unsubscribe: Autism-Mercury-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> > > List owner: Autism-Mercury-owner@onelist.com
> > >
> > > Shortcut URL to this page:
> > > http://www.onelist.com/community/Autism-Mercury
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > --
> > > How about a flat, no-fee long distance rate of 6.7¢ per min.
-
> > > or less? Join beMANY! Our huge buying group gives you rates
which
> > > fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!
> > > http://click.egroups.com/1/3820/7/_/705339/_/957567745/
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > --
> > >
> > > Community email addresses:
> > > Post message: Autism-Mercury@onelist.com
> > > Subscribe: Autism-Mercury-subscribe@onelist.com
> > > Unsubscribe: Autism-Mercury-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> > > List owner: Autism-Mercury-owner@onelist.com
> > >
> > > Shortcut URL to this page:
> > > http://www.onelist.com/community/Autism-Mercury
> >
> >
> > Community email addresses:
> > Post message: Autism-Mercury@onelist.com
> > Subscribe: Autism-Mercury-subscribe@onelist.com
> > Unsubscribe: Autism-Mercury-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> > List owner: Autism-Mercury-owner@onelist.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> > http://www.onelist.com/community/Autism-Mercury