I think it's very true but it doesn't make me feel better! LOL  I'm the NT
in the relationship and it doesn't make it any easier to accept...and I
mentioned it to my DH and he said, that's good but how do we get around it!
LOL

Marina

-------Original Message-------

From: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Date: 03/30/05 12:48:32
To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: communication

David Brown wrote:

> I think what is happening is that NTs have a set of non-verbal
> communication methods that are used to perform essentially flow control in

> conversation.  They use it to determine who speaks when, and what.  So,
> when we want to interrupt an NT conversation, we don't do the right thing,

> which bothers them when we start speaking without having done the right
> protocol.  On the other hand, when we are speaking, we don't notice the
> non-verbal signals they are using and they get frustrated when we don't
> stop speaking.
>
> It isn't as much that we can't interrupt anyone but they can interrupt us

> arbitrarily, but that is a consequence of the differing conversational
> protocols.  It also explains why the NT people would have a different
> perspective.
>
> As I understand it, the signal mostly has to do with eye contact, which
> explains at least why I don't notice it.
>

Oh, that makes a lot of sense!  I think you're right.  I don't know if that
helps me to feel better or not..

~Ms. M

       . '''. .''' .
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      '             '
       ',         ,'
         ',     ,'
           ', ,'
             '



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:26:18 -0800 (PST), Mare Ann <marexylia@...>
wrote:

> Could he have been doing this just to see what kind of reaction he
> produced? I remember doing this once, at an age before I started school.
> I also remember once under-rolling an entire roll of toilet paper and
> leaving in the bath room.  I have no idea I did why I did this.

I did things that never really had a reason.  One time, I decided to try
and not be visible in the restroom, so I stood up on the toilet and tried
to be very quiet.  I got in trouble for that.  I completely soaked my
shoes in mud once to see what it would be like (my mom was not happy).

Dave

>>One more thing...he has hit some children in his class a few times but
not
to be mean.  When we ask him why he did it he does not have a reason.>>


Could he have been doing this just to see what kind of reaction he produced? I
remember doing this once, at an age before I started school. I also remember
once under-rolling an entire roll of toilet paper and leaving in the bath room.
I have no idea I did why I did this :-P

-Marcie



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you so much for the info.  Good luck to you.

>From: "Bourquin" <galileoace@...>
>Reply-To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
>To: <AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] (unknown)
>Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 00:39:58 +1000
>
>Greetings,
>
>I am 21yrs old, and I am A.S.  I was diagnosed at 12 with Aspergers
>Syndrome, and then again at 17 with Autism Spectrum Disorder.
>
>I've only recently begun to explore what that all means to me, and I've
>done alot of research into it, which lead to groups like this :)
>
>Below is a short list of websites that you might find useful, that I have
>found while doing my research. I've tried to put them in order to the more
>basic, explanatory; to the more complex, and in depth... I think.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers
>Great for people who don't understand Autism too well, contains heaps of
>links to related topics. Excellent. (w) I love Wiki :D
>
>http://hunter.apana.org.au/~cas/autism/speech.html
>This is a more indepth site, and lengthy, and is from the perspective and a
>mother of and Aspie child (the mother also has Aspie traits)
>
>http://www.isn.net/~jypsy/whataspe.htm
>A very comprehensive list of diagnostic criteria for Aspergers
>
>http://hunter.apana.org.au/~cas/autism/articles.html
>A group of Articles of Autism and A.S. I haven't gone through them all so I
>don't know the content of all of them.
>
>http://www.geocities.com/bourqie/AspieCritieria.txt
>From Tony Attwood's site http://www.tonyattwood.com/, this criteria is a
>more positive look at diagnosing Asperger's Syndrome.
>
>http://www.autism.org/temple/inside.html
>"An Inside View of Autism" by Temple Grandin.
>
>http://www.autistics.org/library/dontmourn.html
>An article addressed primarily to parents, can be hard hitting.
>
>http://www.autistics.org/library/want.html
>Another article written by an Autistic person
>
>http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/7138/lobby/disability.htm
>This article poses the question "Is Asperger's syndrome/High-Functioning
>Autism necessarily a disability?"
>
>
>I hope you find these useful, I certainly have.
>
>Kaylee :)
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Amy Chraston
>   To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:44 PM
>   Subject: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] (unknown)
>
>
>   Hi.  I am new to this group.  My son has just been pre-diagnosed with
>A.S.
>   I would appreciate it if there are any other moms out there with
>children
>   around the ages of 3 and 4 years old that could e-mail me regarding this
>to
>   get an idea of how your children act to learn if this is in fact my
>son's
>   true diagnosis.  They also told me it could be ODD.  I've done research
>and
>   know a little about A.S. but I have never spoken with anyone who has it
>or
>   knows someone who has it.  I know that my son is having trouble behaving
>in
>   pre-school and he does not make eye contact when spoken to most of the
>time.
>     He smells everything and does not always listen, but is that really
>the
>   criteria for A.S.?
>   I just get upset that everyone is so quick to put a label on children
>that
>   are a little different.  I think that he is immature for his age and
>strong
>   willed.  If A.S. is the correct diagonosis for him, I want to get him
>the
>   proper treatment so that it won't affect him as much when he goes to
>grammar
>   school.
>   One more thing...he has hit some children in his class a few times but
>not
>   to be mean.  When we ask him why he did it he does not have a reason.
>   Thanks for listening.
>   Amy
>
>
>
>
>   --
>
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>               ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>     AS-and-Proud-of-it-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
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>Service.
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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>   Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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>
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>
>Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 265.0.0 - Release Date: 8/11/2004
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Greetings,

I am 21yrs old, and I am A.S.  I was diagnosed at 12 with Aspergers Syndrome,
and then again at 17 with Autism Spectrum Disorder.

I've only recently begun to explore what that all means to me, and I've done
alot of research into it, which lead to groups like this :)

Below is a short list of websites that you might find useful, that I have found
while doing my research. I've tried to put them in order to the more basic,
explanatory; to the more complex, and in depth... I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers
Great for people who don't understand Autism too well, contains heaps of links
to related topics. Excellent. (w) I love Wiki :D

http://hunter.apana.org.au/~cas/autism/speech.html
This is a more indepth site, and lengthy, and is from the perspective and a
mother of and Aspie child (the mother also has Aspie traits)

http://www.isn.net/~jypsy/whataspe.htm
A very comprehensive list of diagnostic criteria for Aspergers

http://hunter.apana.org.au/~cas/autism/articles.html
A group of Articles of Autism and A.S. I haven't gone through them all so I
don't know the content of all of them.

http://www.geocities.com/bourqie/AspieCritieria.txt
From Tony Attwood's site http://www.tonyattwood.com/, this criteria is a more
positive look at diagnosing Asperger's Syndrome.

http://www.autism.org/temple/inside.html
"An Inside View of Autism" by Temple Grandin.

http://www.autistics.org/library/dontmourn.html
An article addressed primarily to parents, can be hard hitting.

http://www.autistics.org/library/want.html
Another article written by an Autistic person

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/7138/lobby/disability.htm
This article poses the question "Is Asperger's syndrome/High-Functioning Autism
necessarily a disability?"


I hope you find these useful, I certainly have.

Kaylee :)

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Amy Chraston
   To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:44 PM
   Subject: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] (unknown)


   Hi.  I am new to this group.  My son has just been pre-diagnosed with A.S.
   I would appreciate it if there are any other moms out there with children
   around the ages of 3 and 4 years old that could e-mail me regarding this to
   get an idea of how your children act to learn if this is in fact my son's
   true diagnosis.  They also told me it could be ODD.  I've done research and
   know a little about A.S. but I have never spoken with anyone who has it or
   knows someone who has it.  I know that my son is having trouble behaving in
   pre-school and he does not make eye contact when spoken to most of the time.
     He smells everything and does not always listen, but is that really the
   criteria for A.S.?
   I just get upset that everyone is so quick to put a label on children that
   are a little different.  I think that he is immature for his age and strong
   willed.  If A.S. is the correct diagonosis for him, I want to get him the
   proper treatment so that it won't affect him as much when he goes to grammar
   school.
   One more thing...he has hit some children in his class a few times but not
   to be mean.  When we ask him why he did it he does not have a reason.
   Thanks for listening.
   Amy




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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 265.0.0 - Release Date: 8/11/2004


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi.  I am new to this group.  My son has just been pre-diagnosed with A.S.
I would appreciate it if there are any other moms out there with children
around the ages of 3 and 4 years old that could e-mail me regarding this to
get an idea of how your children act to learn if this is in fact my son's
true diagnosis.  They also told me it could be ODD.  I've done research and
know a little about A.S. but I have never spoken with anyone who has it or
knows someone who has it.  I know that my son is having trouble behaving in
pre-school and he does not make eye contact when spoken to most of the time.
   He smells everything and does not always listen, but is that really the
criteria for A.S.?
I just get upset that everyone is so quick to put a label on children that
are a little different.  I think that he is immature for his age and strong
willed.  If A.S. is the correct diagonosis for him, I want to get him the
proper treatment so that it won't affect him as much when he goes to grammar
school.
One more thing...he has hit some children in his class a few times but not
to be mean.  When we ask him why he did it he does not have a reason.
Thanks for listening.
Amy

David Brown wrote:

> I think what is happening is that NTs have a set of non-verbal
> communication methods that are used to perform essentially flow control in
> conversation.  They use it to determine who speaks when, and what.  So,
> when we want to interrupt an NT conversation, we don't do the right thing,
> which bothers them when we start speaking without having done the right
> protocol.  On the other hand, when we are speaking, we don't notice the
> non-verbal signals they are using and they get frustrated when we don't
> stop speaking.
>
> It isn't as much that we can't interrupt anyone but they can interrupt us
> arbitrarily, but that is a consequence of the differing conversational
> protocols.  It also explains why the NT people would have a different
> perspective.
>
> As I understand it, the signal mostly has to do with eye contact, which
> explains at least why I don't notice it.
>

Oh, that makes a lot of sense!  I think you're right.  I don't know if that
helps me to feel better or not..

~Ms. M

       . '''. .''' .
      '      '      '
      '             '
       ',         ,'
         ',     ,'
           ', ,'
             '



__________________________________
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An Autistic Victory
The True Meaning of the Auton Decision
by Michelle Dawson

excerpt: "We are protected when caution is shown in examining promises that
unwanted differences, and unwanted people, can be altered, restricted, or
eliminated to the great benefit of society as a whole."

full text is here
<http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_vic.html>http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_\
vic.<http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_vic.html>html

________________________________
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Autism Spectrum Resources
www.PlanetAutism.com
   jypsy@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't know because when I read your post, it sounded like how I feel
toward my DH, except the roles reversed.  I do sometimes feel suspicious
even though I shouldn't...I get so used to him not understanding my point of
view that I don't always give him the benefit of the doubt...definitely my
short coming.  But I do find that a lot of the AS things seem very MALE (at
least in the males) and I have a hard time distinguishing which things are
MALE, and which are AS...

M

-------Original Message-------

From: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Date: 03/29/05 17:55:13
To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: Re: Digest Number 2845

>>I guess I'd be your "ex" in this situation.>>

Not unless you got to the point of practically harassing your husband.

>>And I could relate to him feeling a bit suspicious.  I know realistically
that sometimes my DH does feel apologetic or understand, etc. >>

In my case, I think it was a little different. He just like to argue. To put
it into Aspie language, for him, it was a stim.

Not to generalize, but I'm wondering how much of what we're talking about is
more gender-based than Aspie-based.

-Marcie


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When I'm doing my own thing, I don't pay attention what goes on around
me. When I was little, I used to have troubles concentrating because
the noise would distract me and the sounds, now I don't have that
problem anymore. i can be in school reading a book for my school
assignment and a teacher comes in. I might look up to see who it is
and then go back to what I'm doing while the other students are
distracted. I learned how to zone things out.



--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "Bourquin"
<galileoace@i...> wrote:
>
> I can...
> When I'm doing something I tend to block out all noise... though my
ears still hear things, my brain isn't processing the hearing in
listening, so I have no idea what I'm hearing when my concentration is
elsewhere. It sometimes leads me to ask people to repeat what they
were saying when I'm doing two things at once.
>
> Kaylee
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: marexylia
>   To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 12:45 PM
>   Subject: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Asperger news
>
>
>
>   http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7030731/
>
>
>   I was wondering, how many people here can do like this guy and block
>   out all sensory stimulation when they're really concentrating on
>   something?
>
>   -Marcie
>
>
>
>
>
>   --
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>     AS-and-Proud-of-it-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>I guess I'd be your "ex" in this situation.>>

Not unless you got to the point of practically harassing your husband.

>>And I could relate to him feeling a bit suspicious.  I know realistically that
sometimes my DH does feel apologetic or understand, etc. >>

In my case, I think it was a little different. He just like to argue. To put it
into Aspie language, for him, it was a stim.

Not to generalize, but I'm wondering how much of what we're talking about is
more gender-based than Aspie-based.

-Marcie


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David Brown wrote:

>I think what is happening is that NTs have a set of non-verbal
>communication methods that are used to perform essentially flow control in
>conversation.  They use it to determine who speaks when, and what.  So,
>when we want to interrupt an NT conversation, we don't do the right thing,
>which bothers them when we start speaking without having done the right
>protocol.  On the other hand, when we are speaking, we don't notice the
>non-verbal signals they are using and they get frustrated when we don't
>stop speaking.
>
>It isn't as much that we can't interrupt anyone but they can interrupt us
>arbitrarily, but that is a consequence of the differing conversational
>protocols.  It also explains why the NT people would have a different
>perspective.
>
>As I understand it, the signal mostly has to do with eye contact, which
>explains at least why I don't notice it.
>
>
I realize that, but I have no way to implement the protocol since I'm
running half-duplex.

Ride the Music

AndyTiedye

>On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:07:24 -0500, Julie Esris <jesris@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Yes, I noticed this. Why does that happen? My parents completely deny
>>that
>>it happens.
>>---------
>>That is one of the other unwritten rules.   Aspies must never interrupt
>>anybody else when they are speaking,
>>but it is ALWAYS OK for others to interrupt us, and we are then expected
>>to stop speaking INSTANTLY and
>>switch to paying full attention to what the other person is saying.
>>
>>

Ben Saucer wrote:

>My mother said when I was in first grade, I would stair out the window
>
I did that a lot.   Sometimes I was bored because the teacher was going
soooo slooooowly.
Sometimes I really was paying attention.  Either way,  I could usually
answer the questions
anyway, which seemed to annoy the heck out of my teachers for some reason.

Sometimes I did it on purpose so that they *would* call on me.


Ride the Music

AndyTiedye

I guess I'd be your "ex" in this situation.  And I could relate to him
feeling a bit suspicious.  I know realistically that sometimes my DH does
feel apologetic or understand, etc.  But since it often happens that he says
he understands something I've said but then repeats the "discretion," I end
up not believing him.  I think it's one of those AS/NT hurdles...no one's
FAULT really.  I know I irritate him as much as he irritates me when we talk
   But I do notice a lot of times that he starts to shut down, I walk away,
bring it up later, and that a lot of our misunderstandings does depend on ME
saying things a particular way in order for him to "get it."  So, I guess
sometimes I do resort to saying things a dozen different ways, like you
mentioned.  I just don't know any other way to do this because it's
imperative he understand the point....

M

-------Original Message-------

From: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Date: 03/28/05 15:21:35
To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: Digest Number 2845

>>Is that kind of what you're talking about?>>

If you've actually considered the arguments, no, I don't think it would be
the same thing.

In my previous relationship, I (AS) was the one who got to listen to the
rants. I would say things very concisely and didn't know how to state my
point a dozen different ways.  After I had listened to his point a dozen
different ways and still couldn't make logical since out of his argument
(and yes, I tried), he would accuss me of not "wanting to talk". On the
other hand, I sometimes realized that he had a point - not that I no longer
believed my own point, but I saw that he was right in his own way. I'd
apolize, and then he'd be suspicious of me, thinking that I was apologizing
simply to bring an end to the argument.

-Marcie



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yup!  That's exactly what I'm talking about!  Like I said, when he does it
with me, I just know that's how he is and what he needs to do (and yes, it
does come across as a need), but I know it turns a lot of others off that
just don't understand.  Do you find that, too?

M

-------Original Message-------

From: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Date: 03/27/05 14:32:37
To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Digest Number 2845

>I think that's a great way to put it!  Because I know I normally feel like
>talking with my DH is always a lecture...either he doesn't respond to me or
>he can't stop to take a breath until he gets everything out he needs to.
>With me it's annoying but not so bad, but I can see how uncomfortable (and
>sometimes mad) others get about it.  I do notice that he can't really
>EXCHANGE ideas...only say what his is, if that makes sense...

If I correctly understand what you're saying (speaking in general terms can
be misleading), I may be subject to the same kind of thing.  When discussing

something I guess I tend to rant until I'm finished, then not accept any
additional input, because "I've already previously considered the situation
from many different angles, including the one you're about to mention, and
I've got it all properly figured out now, thank you but I don't need your
input, the matter is settled."

Is that kind of what you're talking about?




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>Is that kind of what you're talking about?>>

If you've actually considered the arguments, no, I don't think it would be the
same thing.

In my previous relationship, I (AS) was the one who got to listen to the rants.
I would say things very concisely and didn't know how to state my point a dozen
different ways.  After I had listened to his point a dozen different ways and
still couldn't make logical since out of his argument (and yes, I tried), he
would accuss me of not "wanting to talk". On the other hand, I sometimes
realized that he had a point - not that I no longer believed my own point, but I
saw that he was right in his own way. I'd apolize, and then he'd be suspicious
of me, thinking that I was apologizing simply to bring an end to the argument.

-Marcie



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For the love of god-------cant you just use your husbands name and friends
name......what is with all of this DH ...and others....drives me nuts


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I think that's a great way to put it!  Because I know I normally feel like
>talking with my DH is always a lecture...either he doesn't respond to me or
>he can't stop to take a breath until he gets everything out he needs to.
>With me it's annoying but not so bad, but I can see how uncomfortable (and
>sometimes mad) others get about it.  I do notice that he can't really
>EXCHANGE ideas...only say what his is, if that makes sense...

If I correctly understand what you're saying (speaking in general terms can
be misleading), I may be subject to the same kind of thing.  When discussing
something I guess I tend to rant until I'm finished, then not accept any
additional input, because "I've already previously considered the situation
from many different angles, including the one you're about to mention, and
I've got it all properly figured out now, thank you but I don't need your
input, the matter is settled."

Is that kind of what you're talking about?

Thank you :)

Kaylee
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: JuneLynn
   To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 4:56 PM
   Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: Adult DX


   At 04:50 PM 3/27/05 +1000, you wrote:

   >A few questions, what do "Adult DX"? and "DH" mean?
   >
   >Kaylee

   DX = "Diagnosis" (for AS)
   DH = "Darling Husband"
   DD = "Darllling Daughter"
   MIL = "Mother In Law"
   etc...


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Marina Bretherton
   To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 4:56 PM
   Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: Adult DX


   Dx: diagnosis
   DH: dear husband!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 04:50 PM 3/27/05 +1000, you wrote:

>A few questions, what do "Adult DX"? and "DH" mean?
>
>Kaylee

DX = "Diagnosis" (for AS)
DH = "Darling Husband"
DD = "Darllling Daughter"
MIL = "Mother In Law"
etc...

Dx: diagnosis
DH: dear husband!


-------Original Message-------

From: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Date: 03/26/05 22:50:31
To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: Adult DX

A few questions, what do "Adult DX"? and "DH" mean?

Kaylee
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Marina Bretherton
   To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 4:43 PM
   Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: Adult DX


   We have A LOT in common!  The conversation you described between your DH
and
   friend could have easily been MY DH.  The way you described it is exactly
   how it is.  And it's uncomfortable for me when it happens with other
people
   because everyone is uncomfortable and I end up feeling "responsible."  It
s
   hard.  People just don't understand.  Most people have never even heard of
   AS.

   I can't imagine not driving!  Of course, I live in Southern California..
   there aren't many options without driving!  My DH does drive, but he won't
   drive a manual.  When we bought my car (manual), he told me he would learn
   to drive it.  I didn't want to buy a car we couldn't both drive.  But now,
5
   years later, I realize I was duped because he just wanted the great deal I
   got! LOL  To this day, he refuses to drive manual.  And I've seen him in a
   parking lot drive great!  It's the anxiety of possibly stalling at an
   intersection that really freaks him out.  Before the AS Dx, I always told
   him, so what?  We don't pick high traffic times/areas to practice.  And
   everyone stalls a couple times before they really get the hang out it..
and
   for that reason you have to practice in traffic (not a parking lot) to get
   used to that anxiety.  Now I wouldn't dream of pushing him on this one!

   I think what YOU are experiencing is normal.  I just think that it
probably
   stands out more since your childhood/teen years weren't so "normal."  It
is
   such a relief to have motherhood, age, etc as an excuse to not care about
   what others think!  And I totally agree that others eventually grow up and
   aren't concerned with what's "cool" anymore.  I know my DH seems to notice
   the effect of this more than I, and it seems more significant to him.  I,
   like you, have friends mostly twice my age (I'm 30).  But I have never had
a
   problem being a bit quirky, opinionated, listening to my music, dressing
my
   way, etc.  Keep in mind, though, that regardless of how much I snubbed
   people in school, I was ALWAYS invited to all the parties, etc.  I
sometimes
   think my DH resents me a little because we are (and always have been) very
   different from most people, but I was perceived as cool & eccentric for it

   while he was ostracized.  It really is so sad that my aloofness made
others
   clamor to hang out with me, and his made him excommunicated from the human
   race!  And, I do find that most people are a bit taken aback by a woman
that
   is outgoing or forward...I noticed this a lot at work (where I needed to
be
   more this way because I was working in the steel..aka male dominated..
   industry).  I know what you mean.  But really, the men that don't like
that
   are the same men that need women with low self-esteem because they know
they
   are losers.  And the women that can't handle it, I think, are just simply
   confused! LOL

   Marina

   -------Original Message-------

   From: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
   Date: 03/26/05 11:36:01
   To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: Adult DX

   Hi Marina,


   On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:58:42 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time), Marina
   Bretherton <marina.bretherton@...> wrote:
   >
   > I couldn't imagine that being easy.  I notice with my DH that people don
t
   > seem to be offended as much as put off by the "oddness" of his comments.

   > Like the timing is right, etc.  I tell him that he just sees things as
   being
   > funny that a lot of people don't.

   My husband, M,  will frequently comment on something in such a way
   that indicates he is not really able to listen to what the person is
   saying. He responds to the most shallow interpretation, or he'll
   respond to something silly, and he'll "tangent" off topic based upon
   that. Sometimes his comments will seem a little strange or "off"
   somehow. For example:

   Myself, M and our friend A were sitting in a restaurant. A was telling
   us about her new boyfriend, and mentioning that he carried around
   computer storage (I am getting aphasic about what this is called) on a
   pendant.

   M says, "Well, did you see her memory chip?" to A, referring to the
   pendant I'm wearing.

   It's very difficult and disruptive to have a conversation with him
   present because of how shallow everything will necessarily remain.
   He'll just kind of skim along the surface of conversations, picking up
   on little things and going off onto tangents. He never seems to be
   able to see the deeper currents in a conversation.

   He also is not interested in a conversation if he isn't the one
   talking; the moment you respond to him or that you "have the floor",
   he will tune out or change the subject.

   I do not know if M has AS; I know many AS people who are capable of
   being "deep". It's almost like he has ADHD so bad that he can't hold a
   conversation, because he gets distracted so easily.

   Despite finding everything funny, he doesn't have much sense of humor;
   he never laughs at my jokes and he doesn't find much *else* amusing
   aside from his own jokes.

   There's a lot wrong in our relationship; I feel at times like I'm with
   someone who is stunted in their teen years, and it's very depressing
   when I see people around me having kids of their own, and living adult
   lives, but I'm with someone with whom I can't even plan one month
   ahead into the future.

   It is very depressing to me to see how much I've grown and changed
   since we've been together, but seeing that he is still basically the
   same person, and will probably never change from what he is. I don't
   know if I can accept that, or if I should just leave. I feel like I
   only make strides in my own growth apart from him. For example, I'm
   housesitting at my mom's, and did my very first significant drive by
   myself.

   M and I don't own a car; we probably never will; and I can't either
   drive or ride in a car with him because 1) his emotional lability
   interferes with his driving, he loses control of the car; 2) when I
   drive with him in the car, I am so nervous that I can't drive safely;
   3) we can't plan together enough to buy a car.

   I can see how I was initially attracted to him because of his
   emotional lability.  He expresses all of his emotions to extremes. I
   have had mild trouble sensing changes in people's emotions at times; I
   say "mild" because I don't think it's to the degree that other Aspies
   experience. However, I end up feeling like most people are "flat"
   "dead" or "phony". M actually seemed "alive" to me when we got
   together. I had never met a man who actually seemed *alive*.

   Right now I'm housesitting for my mom, and have use of her car. I
   really can see how much improved my life would be if I could drive. I
   don't expect to drive while M and I live together.

   I am afraid to talk about my relationship with M sometimes in Asperger
   groups because even though I have a clinical dx of Asperger's, I worry
   that I sound like one of those FAAAS women.

   M was socially very successful in high school, then developed social
   phobia. He has no friends. It was the absolute opposite for me; I was
   the typical AS child, then after I hit my teen years, I started
   acquiring social skills and having friends. I have some deficits. Just
   not to the extent that others report. I don't have trouble driving,
   for example. Low self-confidence has been a much bigger crippling
   factor to me than has anything else; when I am more confident, my
   overall functioning is better. I also find that some lifestyle
   adjustments have helped - the right combination of sleep, diet,
   exercise and medication.
   This seems to be the magic bullet for me.

   I still "tune out" or get intensely bored in most group settings. I
   don't worry about this. Nobody really seems to care and my friends
   accept it. I brought my math homework to the last group of friends I
   was with,

   I still have to use a lot of conscious modulation of self, for
   example, I have to be very careful not to "overexpress" when making a
   point - my opinions can come off far stronger than I meant, convey a
   different message than I meant, and offend people.

   That said, there's a lot that I'm finding is more acceptable at 31
   than at 10, 20, or anywhere between 20 and 30. It's okay for me to
   just dress conservatively, for example, and nobody is basing their
   friendship with me based upon what music I like or don't like. It's
   not so much that I've grown up, as that everyone else seems to have
   grown up, too. I have more self consciousness about being materially
   "behind" than anything else, although my mom assures me that there are
   plenty of people like me who go back to school to become something
   else.

   Finding out some time ago about an Aspie who became a physician, was a
   major turning point for me - I

   Sometimes I think that being at the upper end of the spectrum carries
   its *own* set of issues. As an adult, people initially take me for NT.

   Many of my issues in the past have been issues of gender and age
   nonconformity. One way in which I don't identify with the Aspie
   community as a whole is that I was very precocious in many ways, and I
   have never experienced the dangerous levels of naivete that some
   people are reporting. I was always very well liked by adults. It's
   just other kids who didn't like me.

   Also, I frequently find that people will accept a quirky, analytical
   person with an irreverant sense of humor and a LOT of energy - and
   even really like this person - if that person has a penis. I'm a
   Myers-Briggs NT and people always say that I am "too clinical" in my
   personality. Women are expected to be softer.

   My female friends tend to either be middle-aged (I enjoy these friends
   tremendously), or they are women who are not into doing the various
   gyrations of the mating dance. I have never gotten along as well with
   single women who are "on the market", and when single, most of my
   friends were men.

   --
   there are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall
   about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other
   is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in
   them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors.
   -- C.S. Lewis


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A few questions, what do "Adult DX"? and "DH" mean?

Kaylee
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Marina Bretherton
   To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 4:43 PM
   Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: Adult DX


   We have A LOT in common!  The conversation you described between your DH and
   friend could have easily been MY DH.  The way you described it is exactly
   how it is.  And it's uncomfortable for me when it happens with other people
   because everyone is uncomfortable and I end up feeling "responsible."  It's
   hard.  People just don't understand.  Most people have never even heard of
   AS.

   I can't imagine not driving!  Of course, I live in Southern California..
   there aren't many options without driving!  My DH does drive, but he won't
   drive a manual.  When we bought my car (manual), he told me he would learn
   to drive it.  I didn't want to buy a car we couldn't both drive.  But now, 5
   years later, I realize I was duped because he just wanted the great deal I
   got! LOL  To this day, he refuses to drive manual.  And I've seen him in a
   parking lot drive great!  It's the anxiety of possibly stalling at an
   intersection that really freaks him out.  Before the AS Dx, I always told
   him, so what?  We don't pick high traffic times/areas to practice.  And
   everyone stalls a couple times before they really get the hang out it...and
   for that reason you have to practice in traffic (not a parking lot) to get
   used to that anxiety.  Now I wouldn't dream of pushing him on this one!

   I think what YOU are experiencing is normal.  I just think that it probably
   stands out more since your childhood/teen years weren't so "normal."  It is
   such a relief to have motherhood, age, etc as an excuse to not care about
   what others think!  And I totally agree that others eventually grow up and
   aren't concerned with what's "cool" anymore.  I know my DH seems to notice
   the effect of this more than I, and it seems more significant to him.  I,
   like you, have friends mostly twice my age (I'm 30).  But I have never had a
   problem being a bit quirky, opinionated, listening to my music, dressing my
   way, etc.  Keep in mind, though, that regardless of how much I snubbed
   people in school, I was ALWAYS invited to all the parties, etc.  I sometimes
   think my DH resents me a little because we are (and always have been) very
   different from most people, but I was perceived as cool & eccentric for it,
   while he was ostracized.  It really is so sad that my aloofness made others
   clamor to hang out with me, and his made him excommunicated from the human
   race!  And, I do find that most people are a bit taken aback by a woman that
   is outgoing or forward...I noticed this a lot at work (where I needed to be
   more this way because I was working in the steel..aka male dominated..
   industry).  I know what you mean.  But really, the men that don't like that
   are the same men that need women with low self-esteem because they know they
   are losers.  And the women that can't handle it, I think, are just simply
   confused! LOL

   Marina

   -------Original Message-------

   From: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
   Date: 03/26/05 11:36:01
   To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: Adult DX

   Hi Marina,


   On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:58:42 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time), Marina
   Bretherton <marina.bretherton@...> wrote:
   >
   > I couldn't imagine that being easy.  I notice with my DH that people don't
   > seem to be offended as much as put off by the "oddness" of his comments.
   > Like the timing is right, etc.  I tell him that he just sees things as
   being
   > funny that a lot of people don't.

   My husband, M,  will frequently comment on something in such a way
   that indicates he is not really able to listen to what the person is
   saying. He responds to the most shallow interpretation, or he'll
   respond to something silly, and he'll "tangent" off topic based upon
   that. Sometimes his comments will seem a little strange or "off"
   somehow. For example:

   Myself, M and our friend A were sitting in a restaurant. A was telling
   us about her new boyfriend, and mentioning that he carried around
   computer storage (I am getting aphasic about what this is called) on a
   pendant.

   M says, "Well, did you see her memory chip?" to A, referring to the
   pendant I'm wearing.

   It's very difficult and disruptive to have a conversation with him
   present because of how shallow everything will necessarily remain.
   He'll just kind of skim along the surface of conversations, picking up
   on little things and going off onto tangents. He never seems to be
   able to see the deeper currents in a conversation.

   He also is not interested in a conversation if he isn't the one
   talking; the moment you respond to him or that you "have the floor",
   he will tune out or change the subject.

   I do not know if M has AS; I know many AS people who are capable of
   being "deep". It's almost like he has ADHD so bad that he can't hold a
   conversation, because he gets distracted so easily.

   Despite finding everything funny, he doesn't have much sense of humor;
   he never laughs at my jokes and he doesn't find much *else* amusing
   aside from his own jokes.

   There's a lot wrong in our relationship; I feel at times like I'm with
   someone who is stunted in their teen years, and it's very depressing
   when I see people around me having kids of their own, and living adult
   lives, but I'm with someone with whom I can't even plan one month
   ahead into the future.

   It is very depressing to me to see how much I've grown and changed
   since we've been together, but seeing that he is still basically the
   same person, and will probably never change from what he is. I don't
   know if I can accept that, or if I should just leave. I feel like I
   only make strides in my own growth apart from him. For example, I'm
   housesitting at my mom's, and did my very first significant drive by
   myself.

   M and I don't own a car; we probably never will; and I can't either
   drive or ride in a car with him because 1) his emotional lability
   interferes with his driving, he loses control of the car; 2) when I
   drive with him in the car, I am so nervous that I can't drive safely;
   3) we can't plan together enough to buy a car.

   I can see how I was initially attracted to him because of his
   emotional lability.  He expresses all of his emotions to extremes. I
   have had mild trouble sensing changes in people's emotions at times; I
   say "mild" because I don't think it's to the degree that other Aspies
   experience. However, I end up feeling like most people are "flat"
   "dead" or "phony". M actually seemed "alive" to me when we got
   together. I had never met a man who actually seemed *alive*.

   Right now I'm housesitting for my mom, and have use of her car. I
   really can see how much improved my life would be if I could drive. I
   don't expect to drive while M and I live together.

   I am afraid to talk about my relationship with M sometimes in Asperger
   groups because even though I have a clinical dx of Asperger's, I worry
   that I sound like one of those FAAAS women.

   M was socially very successful in high school, then developed social
   phobia. He has no friends. It was the absolute opposite for me; I was
   the typical AS child, then after I hit my teen years, I started
   acquiring social skills and having friends. I have some deficits. Just
   not to the extent that others report. I don't have trouble driving,
   for example. Low self-confidence has been a much bigger crippling
   factor to me than has anything else; when I am more confident, my
   overall functioning is better. I also find that some lifestyle
   adjustments have helped - the right combination of sleep, diet,
   exercise and medication.
   This seems to be the magic bullet for me.

   I still "tune out" or get intensely bored in most group settings. I
   don't worry about this. Nobody really seems to care and my friends
   accept it. I brought my math homework to the last group of friends I
   was with,

   I still have to use a lot of conscious modulation of self, for
   example, I have to be very careful not to "overexpress" when making a
   point - my opinions can come off far stronger than I meant, convey a
   different message than I meant, and offend people.

   That said, there's a lot that I'm finding is more acceptable at 31
   than at 10, 20, or anywhere between 20 and 30. It's okay for me to
   just dress conservatively, for example, and nobody is basing their
   friendship with me based upon what music I like or don't like. It's
   not so much that I've grown up, as that everyone else seems to have
   grown up, too. I have more self consciousness about being materially
   "behind" than anything else, although my mom assures me that there are
   plenty of people like me who go back to school to become something
   else.

   Finding out some time ago about an Aspie who became a physician, was a
   major turning point for me - I

   Sometimes I think that being at the upper end of the spectrum carries
   its *own* set of issues. As an adult, people initially take me for NT.

   Many of my issues in the past have been issues of gender and age
   nonconformity. One way in which I don't identify with the Aspie
   community as a whole is that I was very precocious in many ways, and I
   have never experienced the dangerous levels of naivete that some
   people are reporting. I was always very well liked by adults. It's
   just other kids who didn't like me.

   Also, I frequently find that people will accept a quirky, analytical
   person with an irreverant sense of humor and a LOT of energy - and
   even really like this person - if that person has a penis. I'm a
   Myers-Briggs NT and people always say that I am "too clinical" in my
   personality. Women are expected to be softer.

   My female friends tend to either be middle-aged (I enjoy these friends
   tremendously), or they are women who are not into doing the various
   gyrations of the mating dance. I have never gotten along as well with
   single women who are "on the market", and when single, most of my
   friends were men.

   --
   there are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall
   about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other
   is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in
   them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors.
   -- C.S. Lewis


   --



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   To visit your group on the web, go to:
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   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We have A LOT in common!  The conversation you described between your DH and
friend could have easily been MY DH.  The way you described it is exactly
how it is.  And it's uncomfortable for me when it happens with other people
because everyone is uncomfortable and I end up feeling "responsible."  It's
hard.  People just don't understand.  Most people have never even heard of
AS.

I can't imagine not driving!  Of course, I live in Southern California..
there aren't many options without driving!  My DH does drive, but he won't
drive a manual.  When we bought my car (manual), he told me he would learn
to drive it.  I didn't want to buy a car we couldn't both drive.  But now, 5
years later, I realize I was duped because he just wanted the great deal I
got! LOL  To this day, he refuses to drive manual.  And I've seen him in a
parking lot drive great!  It's the anxiety of possibly stalling at an
intersection that really freaks him out.  Before the AS Dx, I always told
him, so what?  We don't pick high traffic times/areas to practice.  And
everyone stalls a couple times before they really get the hang out it...and
for that reason you have to practice in traffic (not a parking lot) to get
used to that anxiety.  Now I wouldn't dream of pushing him on this one!

I think what YOU are experiencing is normal.  I just think that it probably
stands out more since your childhood/teen years weren't so "normal."  It is
such a relief to have motherhood, age, etc as an excuse to not care about
what others think!  And I totally agree that others eventually grow up and
aren't concerned with what's "cool" anymore.  I know my DH seems to notice
the effect of this more than I, and it seems more significant to him.  I,
like you, have friends mostly twice my age (I'm 30).  But I have never had a
problem being a bit quirky, opinionated, listening to my music, dressing my
way, etc.  Keep in mind, though, that regardless of how much I snubbed
people in school, I was ALWAYS invited to all the parties, etc.  I sometimes
think my DH resents me a little because we are (and always have been) very
different from most people, but I was perceived as cool & eccentric for it,
while he was ostracized.  It really is so sad that my aloofness made others
clamor to hang out with me, and his made him excommunicated from the human
race!  And, I do find that most people are a bit taken aback by a woman that
is outgoing or forward...I noticed this a lot at work (where I needed to be
more this way because I was working in the steel..aka male dominated..
industry).  I know what you mean.  But really, the men that don't like that
are the same men that need women with low self-esteem because they know they
are losers.  And the women that can't handle it, I think, are just simply
confused! LOL

Marina

-------Original Message-------

From: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Date: 03/26/05 11:36:01
To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: Adult DX

Hi Marina,


On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:58:42 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time), Marina
Bretherton <marina.bretherton@...> wrote:
>
> I couldn't imagine that being easy.  I notice with my DH that people don't
> seem to be offended as much as put off by the "oddness" of his comments.
> Like the timing is right, etc.  I tell him that he just sees things as
being
> funny that a lot of people don't.

My husband, M,  will frequently comment on something in such a way
that indicates he is not really able to listen to what the person is
saying. He responds to the most shallow interpretation, or he'll
respond to something silly, and he'll "tangent" off topic based upon
that. Sometimes his comments will seem a little strange or "off"
somehow. For example:

Myself, M and our friend A were sitting in a restaurant. A was telling
us about her new boyfriend, and mentioning that he carried around
computer storage (I am getting aphasic about what this is called) on a
pendant.

M says, "Well, did you see her memory chip?" to A, referring to the
pendant I'm wearing.

It's very difficult and disruptive to have a conversation with him
present because of how shallow everything will necessarily remain.
He'll just kind of skim along the surface of conversations, picking up
on little things and going off onto tangents. He never seems to be
able to see the deeper currents in a conversation.

He also is not interested in a conversation if he isn't the one
talking; the moment you respond to him or that you "have the floor",
he will tune out or change the subject.

I do not know if M has AS; I know many AS people who are capable of
being "deep". It's almost like he has ADHD so bad that he can't hold a
conversation, because he gets distracted so easily.

Despite finding everything funny, he doesn't have much sense of humor;
he never laughs at my jokes and he doesn't find much *else* amusing
aside from his own jokes.

There's a lot wrong in our relationship; I feel at times like I'm with
someone who is stunted in their teen years, and it's very depressing
when I see people around me having kids of their own, and living adult
lives, but I'm with someone with whom I can't even plan one month
ahead into the future.

It is very depressing to me to see how much I've grown and changed
since we've been together, but seeing that he is still basically the
same person, and will probably never change from what he is. I don't
know if I can accept that, or if I should just leave. I feel like I
only make strides in my own growth apart from him. For example, I'm
housesitting at my mom's, and did my very first significant drive by
myself.

M and I don't own a car; we probably never will; and I can't either
drive or ride in a car with him because 1) his emotional lability
interferes with his driving, he loses control of the car; 2) when I
drive with him in the car, I am so nervous that I can't drive safely;
3) we can't plan together enough to buy a car.

I can see how I was initially attracted to him because of his
emotional lability.  He expresses all of his emotions to extremes. I
have had mild trouble sensing changes in people's emotions at times; I
say "mild" because I don't think it's to the degree that other Aspies
experience. However, I end up feeling like most people are "flat"
"dead" or "phony". M actually seemed "alive" to me when we got
together. I had never met a man who actually seemed *alive*.

Right now I'm housesitting for my mom, and have use of her car. I
really can see how much improved my life would be if I could drive. I
don't expect to drive while M and I live together.

I am afraid to talk about my relationship with M sometimes in Asperger
groups because even though I have a clinical dx of Asperger's, I worry
that I sound like one of those FAAAS women.

M was socially very successful in high school, then developed social
phobia. He has no friends. It was the absolute opposite for me; I was
the typical AS child, then after I hit my teen years, I started
acquiring social skills and having friends. I have some deficits. Just
not to the extent that others report. I don't have trouble driving,
for example. Low self-confidence has been a much bigger crippling
factor to me than has anything else; when I am more confident, my
overall functioning is better. I also find that some lifestyle
adjustments have helped - the right combination of sleep, diet,
exercise and medication.
This seems to be the magic bullet for me.

I still "tune out" or get intensely bored in most group settings. I
don't worry about this. Nobody really seems to care and my friends
accept it. I brought my math homework to the last group of friends I
was with,

I still have to use a lot of conscious modulation of self, for
example, I have to be very careful not to "overexpress" when making a
point - my opinions can come off far stronger than I meant, convey a
different message than I meant, and offend people.

That said, there's a lot that I'm finding is more acceptable at 31
than at 10, 20, or anywhere between 20 and 30. It's okay for me to
just dress conservatively, for example, and nobody is basing their
friendship with me based upon what music I like or don't like. It's
not so much that I've grown up, as that everyone else seems to have
grown up, too. I have more self consciousness about being materially
"behind" than anything else, although my mom assures me that there are
plenty of people like me who go back to school to become something
else.

Finding out some time ago about an Aspie who became a physician, was a
major turning point for me - I

Sometimes I think that being at the upper end of the spectrum carries
its *own* set of issues. As an adult, people initially take me for NT.

Many of my issues in the past have been issues of gender and age
nonconformity. One way in which I don't identify with the Aspie
community as a whole is that I was very precocious in many ways, and I
have never experienced the dangerous levels of naivete that some
people are reporting. I was always very well liked by adults. It's
just other kids who didn't like me.

Also, I frequently find that people will accept a quirky, analytical
person with an irreverant sense of humor and a LOT of energy - and
even really like this person - if that person has a penis. I'm a
Myers-Briggs NT and people always say that I am "too clinical" in my
personality. Women are expected to be softer.

My female friends tend to either be middle-aged (I enjoy these friends
tremendously), or they are women who are not into doing the various
gyrations of the mating dance. I have never gotten along as well with
single women who are "on the market", and when single, most of my
friends were men.

--
there are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall
about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other
is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in
them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors.
-- C.S. Lewis


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I never really thought that my son could have AS (although wouldn't be
shocked if ended up having ADHD!) but I will definitely have to share these
traits with my DH!  My son didn't have any of these so he'll be relieved!
You know what's funny, though?  My son turned 2 in December.  He has been
talking in sentences since about 18 months and can now count to 15.  I
started reading when I was 2.  But no AS....

Marina

-------Original Message-------

From: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Date: 03/26/05 07:57:18
To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: Any other NTs here?


My son doesn't have a formal diagnosis yet, although he's finally on a
waiting list - it's been quite a battle with my husband to actually
see that he is not NT (my son acts in a completely 'normal' way in my
husband's eyes! Hope I'm not causing offence here..not my intention) I
could see that he was 'different' from a few months of age - he went
rigid if I breast-fed him (we nick-named him 'surf-baby, as he looked
like a surf board - so straight and rigid). He would not be comforted
or held by anyone except me. He rarely turned to the sound of a voice.
He wasn't interested in playing with toys, only in lining them up in a
specific order. He never made any acknowledgement of my husband
returning home from work, never sought affection or cuddles and hated
being touched. He could spoon-feed himself by the age of 9 months and
never spilled a drop (he hates mess - used to get upset if we left an
empty mug in the lounge once the drink was finished!), and I often
wonder if this was a way of reducing close contact. As he became a
toddler we had to actively teach him to look at people when they were
talking to him or he was talking to them. He would always turn his cup
around to drink out of one spot, turn his plate so that it always
faced the same way, couldn't bear to have any of his food touching on
his plate, ate all the potato, then all the veg, then all the meat -
never varied. By the time he was 2 he could count out 10 lego bricks,
we discovered he could read when he was 3 (no idea when that
started!). I do think though, that the signs are more obvious now he's
older (10), and he certainly is very aware that he's different to his
friends.
Hope all this is helpful...
Lynda
--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "Marina Bretherton"
<marina.bretherton@v...> wrote:
> How old was your son when he was Dx'd?  And what signs did you see?
I think
> my DH is so afraid of our son (and another in the oven) may end up
with AS.
> Maybe he'd feel better armed with some information?  My FIL is so AS
> (although no Dx) so his memory of things is a bit "off" so to
speak.  My DH
> of course doesn't remember what he was like at 2 yo.  And my MIL has
a form
> of dementia so she can't shed much light on it...
>
> Marina
>






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think that's a great way to put it!  Because I know I normally feel like
talking with my DH is always a lecture...either he doesn't respond to me or
he can't stop to take a breath until he gets everything out he needs to.
With me it's annoying but not so bad, but I can see how uncomfortable (and
sometimes mad) others get about it.  I do notice that he can't really
EXCHANGE ideas...only say what his is, if that makes sense...

M

-------Original Message-------

From: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Date: 03/25/05 17:37:39
To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Digest Number 2845

I think what is happening is that NTs have a set of non-verbal
communication methods that are used to perform essentially flow control in
conversation.  They use it to determine who speaks when, and what.  So,
when we want to interrupt an NT conversation, we don't do the right thing,
which bothers them when we start speaking without having done the right
protocol.  On the other hand, when we are speaking, we don't notice the
non-verbal signals they are using and they get frustrated when we don't
stop speaking.

It isn't as much that we can't interrupt anyone but they can interrupt us
arbitrarily, but that is a consequence of the differing conversational
protocols.  It also explains why the NT people would have a different
perspective.

As I understand it, the signal mostly has to do with eye contact, which
explains at least why I don't notice it.

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:07:24 -0500, Julie Esris <jesris@...> wrote:

> Yes, I noticed this. Why does that happen? My parents completely deny
> that
> it happens.
> ---------
> That is one of the other unwritten rules.   Aspies must never interrupt
> anybody else when they are speaking,
> but it is ALWAYS OK for others to interrupt us, and we are then expected
> to stop speaking INSTANTLY and
> switch to paying full attention to what the other person is saying.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It was my sister's 35th birthday yesterday. She called me (I was for
once going to call her but she called me first) and I stood there as
a mumbling idiot. She actually had to tell me to say "Happy birthday"
and "Congratulations"...


--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "a.f.wilson"
<awilson42@g...> wrote:
> I'm like this too.
>
> I can only work in jobs where 1) I am going to be allowed to work
with
> absolutely no interruption; OR 2) where I'm constantly doing things
> and moving around, and thus, don't have time to go off "into my
head".
>
> I'm only very "responsive" when I'm alone with someone, or where
> adrenaline levels are high thus I'm in "the present time".
>
> When I'm in a social group, I often don't notice people talking to
me,
> because I always assume they are talking to someone else. Someone
> generally has to get my attention or say my name or I won't look
up. I
> tend to "tune out" when there is no actual conversation or
interaction
> going on.
>
> --
> there are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall
> about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other
> is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in
> them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors.
> -- C.S. Lewis

I'm like this too.

I can only work in jobs where 1) I am going to be allowed to work with
absolutely no interruption; OR 2) where I'm constantly doing things
and moving around, and thus, don't have time to go off "into my head".

I'm only very "responsive" when I'm alone with someone, or where
adrenaline levels are high thus I'm in "the present time".

When I'm in a social group, I often don't notice people talking to me,
because I always assume they are talking to someone else. Someone
generally has to get my attention or say my name or I won't look up. I
tend to "tune out" when there is no actual conversation or interaction
going on.

--
there are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall
about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other
is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in
them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors.
-- C.S. Lewis

Hi Marina,


On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:58:42 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time), Marina
Bretherton <marina.bretherton@...> wrote:
>
> I couldn't imagine that being easy.  I notice with my DH that people don't
> seem to be offended as much as put off by the "oddness" of his comments.
> Like the timing is right, etc.  I tell him that he just sees things as being
> funny that a lot of people don't.

My husband, M,  will frequently comment on something in such a way
that indicates he is not really able to listen to what the person is
saying. He responds to the most shallow interpretation, or he'll
respond to something silly, and he'll "tangent" off topic based upon
that. Sometimes his comments will seem a little strange or "off"
somehow. For example:

Myself, M and our friend A were sitting in a restaurant. A was telling
us about her new boyfriend, and mentioning that he carried around
computer storage (I am getting aphasic about what this is called) on a
pendant.

M says, "Well, did you see her memory chip?" to A, referring to the
pendant I'm wearing.

It's very difficult and disruptive to have a conversation with him
present because of how shallow everything will necessarily remain.
He'll just kind of skim along the surface of conversations, picking up
on little things and going off onto tangents. He never seems to be
able to see the deeper currents in a conversation.

He also is not interested in a conversation if he isn't the one
talking; the moment you respond to him or that you "have the floor",
he will tune out or change the subject.

I do not know if M has AS; I know many AS people who are capable of
being "deep". It's almost like he has ADHD so bad that he can't hold a
conversation, because he gets distracted so easily.

Despite finding everything funny, he doesn't have much sense of humor;
he never laughs at my jokes and he doesn't find much *else* amusing
aside from his own jokes.

There's a lot wrong in our relationship; I feel at times like I'm with
someone who is stunted in their teen years, and it's very depressing
when I see people around me having kids of their own, and living adult
lives, but I'm with someone with whom I can't even plan one month
ahead into the future.

It is very depressing to me to see how much I've grown and changed
since we've been together, but seeing that he is still basically the
same person, and will probably never change from what he is. I don't
know if I can accept that, or if I should just leave. I feel like I
only make strides in my own growth apart from him. For example, I'm
housesitting at my mom's, and did my very first significant drive by
myself.

M and I don't own a car; we probably never will; and I can't either
drive or ride in a car with him because 1) his emotional lability
interferes with his driving, he loses control of the car; 2) when I
drive with him in the car, I am so nervous that I can't drive safely;
3) we can't plan together enough to buy a car.

I can see how I was initially attracted to him because of his
emotional lability.  He expresses all of his emotions to extremes. I
have had mild trouble sensing changes in people's emotions at times; I
say "mild" because I don't think it's to the degree that other Aspies
experience. However, I end up feeling like most people are "flat"
"dead" or "phony". M actually seemed "alive" to me when we got
together. I had never met a man who actually seemed *alive*.

Right now I'm housesitting for my mom, and have use of her car. I
really can see how much improved my life would be if I could drive. I
don't expect to drive while M and I live together.

I am afraid to talk about my relationship with M sometimes in Asperger
groups because even though I have a clinical dx of Asperger's, I worry
that I sound like one of those FAAAS women.

M was socially very successful in high school, then developed social
phobia. He has no friends. It was the absolute opposite for me; I was
the typical AS child, then after I hit my teen years, I started
acquiring social skills and having friends. I have some deficits. Just
not to the extent that others report. I don't have trouble driving,
for example. Low self-confidence has been a much bigger crippling
factor to me than has anything else; when I am more confident, my
overall functioning is better. I also find that some lifestyle
adjustments have helped - the right combination of sleep, diet,
exercise and medication.
This seems to be the magic bullet for me.

I still "tune out" or get intensely bored in most group settings. I
don't worry about this. Nobody really seems to care and my friends
accept it. I brought my math homework to the last group of friends I
was with,

I still have to use a lot of conscious modulation of self, for
example, I have to be very careful not to "overexpress" when making a
point - my opinions can come off far stronger than I meant, convey a
different message than I meant, and offend people.

That said, there's a lot that I'm finding is more acceptable at 31
than at 10, 20, or anywhere between 20 and 30. It's okay for me to
just dress conservatively, for example, and nobody is basing their
friendship with me based upon what music I like or don't like. It's
not so much that I've grown up, as that everyone else seems to have
grown up, too. I have more self consciousness about being materially
"behind" than anything else, although my mom assures me that there are
plenty of people like me who go back to school to become something
else.

Finding out some time ago about an Aspie who became a physician, was a
major turning point for me - I

Sometimes I think that being at the upper end of the spectrum carries
its *own* set of issues. As an adult, people initially take me for NT.

Many of my issues in the past have been issues of gender and age
nonconformity. One way in which I don't identify with the Aspie
community as a whole is that I was very precocious in many ways, and I
have never experienced the dangerous levels of naivete that some
people are reporting. I was always very well liked by adults. It's
just other kids who didn't like me.

Also, I frequently find that people will accept a quirky, analytical
person with an irreverant sense of humor and a LOT of energy - and
even really like this person - if that person has a penis. I'm a
Myers-Briggs NT and people always say that I am "too clinical" in my
personality. Women are expected to be softer.

My female friends tend to either be middle-aged (I enjoy these friends
tremendously), or they are women who are not into doing the various
gyrations of the mating dance. I have never gotten along as well with
single women who are "on the market", and when single, most of my
friends were men.

--
there are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall
about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other
is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in
them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors.
-- C.S. Lewis

I was just like that too.


--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, Ben Saucer <bsaucer2@c...>
wrote:
> At 01:39 PM 3/25/2005, you wrote:
> > > I was wondering, how many people here can do like this guy and
block
> > > out all sensory stimulation when they're really concentrating on
> > > something?
>
> A lot of times I tend to stare off into space while I'm in deep
thought.
> People standing in front of me would call to me and I wouldn't
respond.
> When I was three or four, my speech therapist pointed out to my
mother that
> I had a tendency to stare off in some direction thinking about
stuff, while
> other things are going on around me. She said she recognized that
trait in
> a lot of boys "like me". I wonder what kind of diagnosis I had at
the time...
>
> My mother said when I was in first grade, I would stair out the
window
> during the group reading lesson. When it was my turn to read, she
said I'd
> start reading from the book where I was supposed to, as if I could
stare
> out the window and pay attention at the same time.
>
> Of course, as I remember it, I was often oblivious to the lesson,
and when
> my teacher called my name with a question, I'd just freeze and
wouldn't
> respond.
>
>
> Ben Saucer
> e-mail: bsaucer2@c...
> web page: www.1164.com/~bsaucer
> ICQ: 20610314

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:39:51 -0000, JANE <legalcorgi@...> wrote:

> I find the lack of contrast, huge quantities of white space, failure
> to warn of impending changes or run them by group members, and
> inability to view posts EXCEPT in reverse time order really difficult.
>  You can send comments from the homepage.

There does seem to be a lot of whitespace.  You can view posts by thread,
but it is still then sorted by reverse time order.

I don't know.  I try to avoid web interfaces to groups if at all possible,
because they are universally terrible.  Any reasonable email client should
have a better interface than the web board interface.  Of course, most
email clients are also terrible, but I digress.

As far as running it by the group, I'm not sure that Yahoo really cares
about that.  They are providing a free service, so we're not exactly
customers.

Dave