Hello. I am curious to hear what other people with apergers disorder think
about the coverage of this "disorder" in the media and in books. I relies that
there have been a few fictional books about autistic disorders. But do think
that there is a need for a book about the real life of people who have
Asperger's? Do you think that it would help with anything? is their something
out there that I don't know about? I just haven't had any luck finding any thing
to recommend to my friends and relatives to help them understand what it is.
Or what it dose.
jordan@...

Neil Gardner wrote:

>
>If the BBC really cared about children's misbehaviour, then they would not air
>wacky cartoons and moronic slapstick game shows every morning.
>
>
  Hi,

You had me until this statement. My primary perseveration is those
"wacky cartoons" (particularly those made in the forties and fifties,
and by Warner Bros.). I consider myself grateful my parents allowed me
to watch them.

Otherwise, an excellent letter. It's a shame we don't get those programs
on this side of the Atlantic--I'd like to be able to see for myself what
these shows got right (or wrong) about AS.

Rachel



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Correspondence with the Beeb:

My reply sent yesterday:

I note your use of AS sufferers. One does not suffer from a natural
neurological difference any more than one suffers from one's skin colour.
People with AS may suffer from depression, anxiety, bullying, sensory
overloads, stress etc....We do not suffer from being ourselves and as said
many of the adverse behavioural traits often ascribed to aspies result from
our interaction with an often hostile world.

Unfortunately, soaps such as Holby City (and along with Casualty it's the
only soap I watch) play a major role in shaping and informing public
opinion. Personally I do not think gynaecologists, such as Mubs, should
diagnose a mild neurological difference (if they did, they'd just get it
wrong as do numerous psychologists), but should simply be aware of how to
communicate basic information more effectively when it is obvious the
patient is either under stress or simply failing to comprehend. If a
gynaecologist just assumed all aspies behaved like Cass, then he may end up
acting in a condescending manner. All mothers should be better informed
about what procedures may be necessary if there are any complications during
child birth and thus be allowed to weigh their options well in advance.
There has been a significant rise in Caesarian sections over the last 10-15
years with no measurable decrease in infantile mortality. Holby City drives
home the message that the medical / pharmaceutical establishment knows best.
Just consider the tens of thousands of kids prescribed a variant of speed,
methylphenidate or ritalin, to induce greater concentration and
subservience, yet suppress creativity and one's natural character. If the
BBC really cared about children's misbehaviour, then they would not air
wacky cartoons and moronic slapstick game shows every morning.
Bright lights and face masks may perturb aspies more than the general
population, but sensitivities vary so much that it would be hard to
generalise. The kind of AS people I meet just lack some of the smarminess
and charm that are so essential in today's spin- and image-obsessed society.
I would not be surprised if the new doctor in Casualty, Guppy, had AS. The
point is it should not matter.

Neil


Reply from Gary Briggs Advisor, Editorial and Investigation Team:

> Dear Neil,
>
> Thank you for your recent e-mail regarding Holby City, a copy of which is
> included below.
>
> During the episode where the drama featured a mother-to be, who suffered
> from Aspergers, the programme was examining Mubbs' (Holby's Obstetric
> Registrar) conviction that he was a world's authority on everything, when
> in fact, his failed to diagnose Cass's AS. We therefore cannot agree that
> the NHS was presented as AS experts. Quite the opposite. The writers were
> also telling a very personal story, one woman's struggle to have a baby
and
> were not suggesting that all suffers of AS would behave in the same way
> when confronted as Cass was. Equally, I am sure you will appreciate there
> is simply not enough time, in a one -hour drama, to examine "Cause and
> Effect" such as diet encouraging an increase in Autistic type behaviours.
> This is the sort of work that can only be undertaken in a
documentary-style
> programme, which Holby City most definitely is not, nor is it representing
> NHS policy in any way.
>
> Whilst we appreciate your concerns in this matter, I hope I have gone
> someway to explaining the BBC's standpoint on the matter. Thank you for
> contacting us with your views.
>
> Yours sincerely
>
> Gary Briggs
> Advisor, Editorial and Investigation Team
> BBC Information

My Original e-mail:

> This message was originally intended for the Holby City message board,
> but it was closed when I tried to post it.
>
> Living in Scotland I've only just seen the Holby episode with the
> expectant mother diagnosed with Asperger's. As someone who has been
> diagnosed with AS myself and met scores of aspies of all ages, including
> three aspie mothers, this seems to be a largely negative
> characterisation. Many of us have issues with bright lights, loud
> noises, sensory overloads, may take obsessive interests in some
> subjects, and what's wrong with that, but most can judge cause and
> effect very well.
>
> All of a sudden staff at Holby turned into AS experts, explaining away
> behavioural traits, characterised initially as irrational, as Asperger's
> quirks. In my experience until around 2000 very few NHS staff had ever
> heard of AS and sadly this episode will further misinform the general
> public. I had four lengthy hospital stays as a child and not once did I
> behave anything like the Holby actress. I may have amused or bored busy
> nurses with my Atlas. Both of our children were delivered by Caesarian
> section, against my better judgment, and despite my reservations about
> some aspects of modern medicine, I immediately understood what was at
> stake and viewed the birth like millions of other proud fathers. Most
> aspies are not aggressive, indeed are much more likely to be victims of
> intense bullying and ostracism at school, college and work. Many of the
> more challenging behaviours exhibited by some on the so-called spectrum
> result from a mix of a natural neurological difference, which in some
> environments may be beneficial, and our interaction with a hostile and
> often duplicitous society. More disturbingly the screen writers have yet
> to address the issue why there are more and more children with
> developmental disorders - despite the wonders of modern medicine, food
> technology and mass communications. Maybe the BBC fails to understand
> the relationship between cause and effect.
>
> The general impression given was that aspies are insensitive to other
> people's feelings and are so wrapped up in their obsessions that they
> often act irresponsibly, even endangering their child's life. While many
> of us have endured many real personal traumas, nothing could be further
> from the truth. I fear your awareness-raising initiative will actually
> reinforce people's prejudices against oddballs and mad professors.
>
> Kindest regards
>
> Neil Gardner
> PHAD People with High Functioning Autism: http://www.phad-fife.org.uk
> Edinburgh and Lothian Asperger Society http://www.elas-scot.org.uk

I think you have the wrong list, yo...



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
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Hello Michael !

     OK, [2Pz]3-4 tries S13/R13 crossing
to add to the attack (cross on 9-10)
#1,10

     Attack anyway:
Q13 [L5FJ]1-2, [5FJ]2-3
and R12 [116Pz]5-4
and (if crossed) S13 [2Pz]3-4
attack R13 [4Arm]5-4
AV = +8 (or +10 if crossed)
DV = +5
German, then US roll
#2,10

Repeat using Initiative only if: AV was +10
AND [4Arm] did not retreat.
#2,10

If allowed, Q13 both units advance to R13.
No exploit possible.

     Your Allied moves...

I realize I had been 'lazy' enough not to write
a Map Summary after my moves... will you
ask me for one now, or you do it and I'll check ?

     Happy gaming !
     Mircea

----- Original Message -----
From: "Camilla Berglund" <elmindreda@...>
To: <AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: My little girl, cont.


>
> dacl wrote:
>
> > All children go through stages, eg. rolling,crawling, walking, etc.
>
> Yes, absolutely. However, I've never seen either building blocks or
> trains listed as developmental stages.

They don't have to be listed. [by whom?] to be real, whether they are
'stages' or not.
>
> > Blocks I found good because it meant one-on-one contact for half an
> > hour
> > while Mum cooked the dinner. That helped bond me to him.
>
> Great. But why choose something that he apparently wasn't interested
> in, and enforce that? Why not choose something that he enjoyed doing?

This is where a big problem lay. They refuse to extend their horizons. If
you do not make them do so they retreat and shut you out. If you are playing
with blocks yourself he sees them as important. He would not enjoy what he
has not experienced, so to be made to experience it gives him a chance.He
began by gripping in the baby grip with all fingers opposed to the palm but
learned to use his fingers separately.
We progressed to  a set of plastic train with 6 tracks that made a loop. I
introduced it track by track each 6 weeks, then when we made the circle,
then each six weeks an added one of the three train units. He was delighted.
After this stage I let him play as an ordinary child would with trains and
blocks.
With this training he knew how to use them, like training him to climb the
steps of a bus, etc., etc.
Without it he would have made no attrempt at all and would have reverted to
rocking endlessly.

>
> I'm just curious.
>
> > All autistics [as he was then] avoid close contact and bonding.
>
> First of all; no. Emphatically no. I disagree just as emphatically.
>
> Secondly, do you mean that he's stopped being autistic, or that he's
> stopped avoiding close contact and bonding?

When is one autistic and when not? He's still on the spectrum, but I place
him more towards the asperger end now. None of us will ever be off the
spectrum, once born onto it.
>
> > That's one of the barriers. Another is hyperactivity.
>
> Would I then be justified in claiming that some of the neurotypical
> barriers are a fixation with lies and deceit, an inability to accept
> uncomfortable truths and a strong tendency to over-generalise whenever
> possible?
Do you mean NT barriers put up for or against NTs?

> You may be. There are all sorts of tricks of the trade, and  they are VERY
cunning, and many have super memories.
> I'm just wondering, and I would never really do that, as I know enough
> NTs nowadays to know that they're all different, too.
>
> I personally believe that the barriers you perceive are due to
> differences in "neurological culture"; a term that in my opinion should
> be officially recognised.
>
> There is, however, a perfectly good term already for what you're
> describing, namely cultural barriers.

  You cannot have any cultural barriers without culture. In my opinion these
are personal barriers seen as self defence against anyone wanting to upset
their perceived order of how they want the world; primarily safe. I think
all autistics and aspies have an element to a greater or less degree of
wanting to resist change. I do.
>
> > We found he had a six week learning span.
>
> That great, so you learned something about how HE works, and in this
> case, you didn't claim that all autistic people function in the same
> manner.
>
> Please follow your own example.
Wass machen Sie hier? No comprendo. I thought I was.
>
> > I can say more about other barriers later.
>
> Please do.
>
> ---
> Camilla

David NZ
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

you might find Hans Aperger less well known, as he was for a long time,
because the Nazis were very hostile to him and his work.
David NZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mircea Pauca" <mpauca@...>
To: <AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Hi. I'm new here and I have AS.


>
>
>     Hello Mike "zxdex88" ! Greetings from Romania !
>
> > I haven't yet been diagnosed by a doctor because I haven't yet seen
> > my doctor since I discovered I have Asperger's Syndrome, but I first
> > read about this disorder a year ago and when I read what all the
> > symptoms are I knew I had finally found out why I am the way I am.
>
>     At age 30 I'm now diagnosed with "Autistic Personality"
> since Asperger's doesn't seem too widely known here.
>     I suspected something like this 2-3 years ago...
> but always knew I was well "different" and not
> "fit in" even if I was unusually "bright".
>
> > And as you can see, I tend to elaborate way too much on subjects
> > which interest me.
>
>     What are your special interests ?
>
>     Mine are collecting, books - literature, history, economics,
> applied math (probability, system dynamics), a bit of
> computers, and generally "thinking about" this world.
> Not "being inside" it, that I cannot stand.
>     And all these, reunited in my main hobby of conflict
> simulation / war gaming. There is a good niche of hobbyists,
> most of which are close to our Spectrum, at least in the
> good ways ;-)
>     Some of these, also used for work (teaching economic
> modelling, Cybernetics) - IF I can stand the really ugly
> social setting of our institutions.
>     Now I'm taking a voluntary pause. Will go back only
> if conditions improve _substantially_ on their part...
>
> > I just want to understand myself better and learn from
> > others how they cope and live with this condition.
>
>     Welcome to our friendly camp, and let's hope for
> reciprocal information and enlightenment !
>
>     Best wishes !
>     Mircea Pauca, Bucuresti, Romania
>
>
> > Thanks.
> >
> >  -- Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

It seems, then, based on this limited data, that having AS or not having AS
doesn't determine how old you are when you stop believing in Santa... what
does everyone else think?

Also, how about that one nerd in THE POLAR EXPRESS? Is he autistic or what?
:-D

JE
   -----Original Message-----
   From: Ben Saucer [mailto:bsaucer2@...]
   Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:43 PM
   To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Digest Number 2759


   At 05:55 AM 12/28/2004, you wrote:
   >How old were all of you when you stopped believing in Santa Claus? I was
   >just a couple months short of 7, and it hit me one summer day that the
idea
   >of Santa Claus was absurd (the prior year I was an ademant believer!).
   >Sometimes I wonder if there's a connection between having AS and when you
   >stop believing (on the other side of the coin, an autistic friend of mine
   >didn't stop believing until age 11!).

   I was in third grade. We were a family of six (plus a large dog and a
   bird). My dad had just quit his job and went on permanent disability
   because of his severe asthma and other problems. We had just recently
   packed up all of our stuff into a truck and utility trailer and moved
   across the country. Whatever didn't fit in the truck or the trailer we
   dropped off into a Salvation Army box. Also, there was a baby on the way.
   We were "dirt poor" that year. So my oldest sister decided to tell me that
   there was no Santa Claus.

   The Salvation Army and all the grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins
   were so good to us that I had the biggest Christmas I ever had.


   Ben Saucer
   e-mail: bsaucer2@...
   web page: www.1164.com/~bsaucer
   ICQ: 20610314




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 05:55 AM 12/28/2004, you wrote:
>How old were all of you when you stopped believing in Santa Claus? I was
>just a couple months short of 7, and it hit me one summer day that the idea
>of Santa Claus was absurd (the prior year I was an ademant believer!).
>Sometimes I wonder if there's a connection between having AS and when you
>stop believing (on the other side of the coin, an autistic friend of mine
>didn't stop believing until age 11!).

I was in third grade. We were a family of six (plus a large dog and a
bird). My dad had just quit his job and went on permanent disability
because of his severe asthma and other problems. We had just recently
packed up all of our stuff into a truck and utility trailer and moved
across the country. Whatever didn't fit in the truck or the trailer we
dropped off into a Salvation Army box. Also, there was a baby on the way.
We were "dirt poor" that year. So my oldest sister decided to tell me that
there was no Santa Claus.

The Salvation Army and all the grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins
were so good to us that I had the biggest Christmas I ever had.


Ben Saucer
e-mail: bsaucer2@...
web page: www.1164.com/~bsaucer
ICQ: 20610314

Hi there, folks!

Since I hadn't been here in a long time, I decided to stop by and say
hello to everyone. How are you doing? Did you have a good Christmas?
Are you doing anything for New Year's? I'm looking forward to hearing
what you have to say. Take care.

Ritchie

Julie Esris wrote:

>Actually, I don't think you were late. As (forgive me) flabbergasting as
>this is to me, most of my "normal" friends stopped believing at age 9 or 10.
>What about the rest of you?
>
>JE
>
>
  Hi,

I think I was about ten, although by then my logic was starting to kick
in and figured maybe some aspects of the story were true, while some
weren't. For instance, the notion that Santa seems to live forever. I
had read about the actual St. Nicholas about this time and knew he had
lived in the third century A.D. It was inconceivable *he* could still be
alive, so I figured the Santa thing was a tradition passed on to various
people over the centuries.

The year I was ten was also the last year I can remember sending a
letter to Santa, and I was so thrilled to actually get a response and
the present I asked for, logic notwithstanding. (It was a class project
spearheaded by a teacher who ridiculed the idea--she delighted in
debunking kids' fantasies). I wasn't terribly surprised to learn Santa
didn't exist, but I have to say Christmas wasn't quite the same for me
after that.

Rachel


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Actually, I don't think you were late. As (forgive me) flabbergasting as
this is to me, most of my "normal" friends stopped believing at age 9 or 10.
What about the rest of you?

JE
   -----Original Message-----
   From: Parrish S. Knight [mailto:zathras@...]
   Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:22 PM
   To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Autism and Santa Claus


   On Dec 27, 2004, at 7:02 PM, Julie Esris wrote:
   > How old were all of you when you stopped believing in Santa Claus?

   I was in either third or fourth grade -- I don't recall which.  All of
   my other classmates had been told some time ago, and as Xmas rolled
   around, they were all talking about how their parents had told them; I
   was the only one who still believed, although by that time I had enough
   sense to lie to my classmates when asked and say that I didn't believe
   anymore, either.  I ended up having to confront my parents about the
   issue (that is, they didn't come to me).


   -----
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   Knight Scents
   http://www.knightscents.biz



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     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Dec 27, 2004, at 7:02 PM, Julie Esris wrote:
> How old were all of you when you stopped believing in Santa Claus?

I was in either third or fourth grade -- I don't recall which.  All of
my other classmates had been told some time ago, and as Xmas rolled
around, they were all talking about how their parents had told them; I
was the only one who still believed, although by that time I had enough
sense to lie to my classmates when asked and say that I didn't believe
anymore, either.  I ended up having to confront my parents about the
issue (that is, they didn't come to me).


-----
Homemade scented candles to bring warmth and fragrance to your home...
Knight Scents
http://www.knightscents.biz

How old were all of you when you stopped believing in Santa Claus? I was
just a couple months short of 7, and it hit me one summer day that the idea
of Santa Claus was absurd (the prior year I was an ademant believer!).
Sometimes I wonder if there's a connection between having AS and when you
stop believing (on the other side of the coin, an autistic friend of mine
didn't stop believing until age 11!).


Julie

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/27/health/27autism.html?
hp&ex=1104123600&en=21842739a8d5a0eb&ei=5094&partner=homepage

----------------------------------------------------------------------

December  27, 2004
Results Falling Short of Claims in for Autism
By BENEDICT CAREY

Desperate parents of autistic children have tried almost everything -
hormone injections, exotic diets, faith healing - in the hope of
finding  a cure.

But more than 60 years after it was first identified, autism  remains
mystifying and stubbornly difficult to treat. About the only thing
parents, doctors and policy makers agree on is that the best chance
for  autistic children to develop social and language skills is to
enroll them in  some type of intensive behavioral therapy.

A government-appointed panel  has endorsed such therapies, which can
cost $40,000 to more than $60,000 per  year. Parents fight to get
their children placed in behavioral programs,  encouraged by the
claims of some therapists that they can produce  astonishing
improvement in up to 50 percent of cases. An estimated 141,000
children with autism receive special education services, in many
cases  including behavioral therapies, through public schools.

Yet the science  behind behavioral treatments is modest at best.
Researchers have published  very few rigorously controlled studies of
the therapies, and the results of  those studies have been mixed.
While some children thrive, even joining  regular classrooms, the
studies have found that most show moderate or little  improvement. And
researchers say most parents now experiment with so many  alternative
treatments - including vitamins, diets, sensory therapies and
computer games - that they muddy the results of behavior treatment,
making it very hard to say what is causing a child to gain skills or
to  decline.

The most recent analysis of treatment research, financed by the
National Institutes of Health and scheduled to be published next
year,  concludes that although behavior treatments benefit many
children, there is  no evidence that any particular treatment leads to
recovery. Doctors do not  yet know how to predict which children will
improve in the treatments, or  even how treatable the condition is,
the report concludes.

"If so  many kids are being cured, then where are they? Who are they?
Show me 10  percent," said Dr. Bryna Siegel, director of the autism
clinic at the  University of California, San Francisco. "The reason
practitioners can't  show you all these kids is because there simply
aren't that many of them out  there."

Questioning the Evidence

No one disputes that behavioral  therapies can be transforming:
parents are deeply committed to them, and  most experts emphasize
their successes, saying that they are the best option  now available.

But others say the evidence is not as solid as it is  sometimes made
out to be - a view echoed by some health insurers, who have  refused
or limited coverage for treatment. And politics, the experts say,
sometimes gets in the way of a frank evaluation of how well the
programs  work.

"We're at a point," said Dr. Susan Hyman, an associate professor of
pediatrics at the University of Rochester Medical Center, "where
questioning the evidence behind them is like criticizing your
grandmother's matzo-ball soup."

Behavioral treatment programs come in  several varieties. A therapy
called applied behavior analysis is the most  studied and most
commonly used. In this approach, the therapist begins by  working one
on one with a child, often 20 to 40 hours a week, to build  social and
language abilities in very small steps - by rewarding the  youngster
with a treat for learning words, for example, or for sitting still  or
greeting someone.

A state-financed program in North Carolina,  known by the acronym
Teacch (its full name is Treatment and Education of  Autistic and
Related Communication Handicapped Children), uses pictures and
schedules, among other techniques, to keep children focused and
interacting with others, and to take advantage of their visual
skills.  It is taught in classrooms, by trained teachers, or in
special clinics, and  is provided free throughout the state.

Floor Time, another popular  option, has teachers and parents on the
floor, following a child's lead in  interactive play to develop
emotional connections. Other approaches,  including the Denver Model
and Pivotal Response Training, blend rewards for  specific behaviors
with play techniques and schedules. These have also  helped children
improve.

In a 2001 report, a National Academy of  Sciences panel convened by
the federal government evaluated all the research  and concluded that
treating children as early as possible, and giving them  at least 25
hours a week of therapy, was more important than the specific  name-
brand approach used. Parents' involvement in the treatment was
especially helpful, the report said.

In some states, parents have  fought legal battles with school
districts to get such programs paid for.  Many parents hire therapists
to come to their homes; others move to other  states to get better
services.

"We redesigned our entire third floor  to look just like the Teacch
classroom," said Inga Sawyer, whose 5-year-old  son and 3-year-old
daughter use Teacch methods in Carrboro, N.C., near  Chapel
Hill. "Both of them thrive on the structure, and it has been really
helpful in organizing their day" and mainstreaming them in school,
she  said.

Belief Versus Proof

But believing in the programs is one  thing; proving how well they
work is another. Researchers say traditional  studies are difficult to
carry out. The therapies are extremely  time-consuming, and some
parents, unwilling to take a chance on  less-than-optimal therapy,
refuse to let their children be part of the  control groups that are
essential for scientific research. Even the most  well-known and
rigorously studied brand of behavioral therapy, the Lovaas  method,
appears to be less effective than was originally hoped, and its
record in studies is mixed.

Named after its inventor, Dr. O. Ivar  Lovaas, a psychologist at the
University of California, Los Angeles, the  method is taught from
manuals and is a version of applied behavior analysis  that demands
close tracking of children's day-to-day behavior. In the  original
program, therapists would at times slap children on the thigh when
they did not behave as instructed, a punishment that was phased out
in  the late 1980's.

In 1987, Dr. Lovaas reported in a small study that 9 of  19 children
who received up to 40 hours a week of his intensive therapy were
classified as functioning normally after at least two years. Only 2
percent of children in a comparison group that received a less
intensive  version of the therapy did as well.

In a follow-up paper in 1993, Dr.  Lovaas reported that those initial
gains had held up through age 12 or 13 in  the children, bringing a
sense of hope and possibility to a field that had  known mostly
resignation.

Yet in 2000, a team of researchers who had  trained with Dr. Lovaas
tried to confirm the findings and could not. After  receiving 20 to 30
hours a week of the Lovaas method for two years, only 2  of 15
children in the study reached the highest level, scoring at age level
on all measures and entering regular classrooms without help,
according  to the study's lead author, Dr. Tristram Smith, an
assistant professor of  psychology at the University of Rochester. No
children in the control group  reached the same level, he said.

Children in the study who had full-blown  autism, as opposed to a less
severe disorder, did not show significant  improvements as a group in
most areas, compared with children who were given  less intensive
therapy, the study found.

Dr. Lovaas, now a professor  emeritus at U.C.L.A., said in an
interview that the most likely explanation  for the modest findings
was the quality of the therapy being delivered. "I  don't know why the
results were so different, but my best guess is that they  did not
deliver the treatment as skillfully as we do here," he said.

Yet in a review of the most recent research, accepted for publication
in The Journal of Clinical Child and Adolescent Psychology, Dr. Sally
Rogers, director of the MIND Institute at the University of
California,  Davis, wrote of that study: "This type of treatment is
considered by many to  be the treatment of choice for lower
functioning children with autism. Yet  the best designed study of this
treatment, carried out by experts in the  method, did not demonstrate
improvement in the treated group of children  with the full syndrome
of autism relative to controls."

In an  interview, Dr. Rogers said that the Smith study by itself was
too small to  be conclusive, and that less rigorous trials suggested
many children in  intensive therapies made moderate gains in language
ability and other areas,  even if they did not overcome the underlying
disabilities.

In one  such trial, Canadian researchers found that when they taught
parents how to  encourage play and communication, children showed a
significant gain in  language skill after just three months, compared
with other autistic  children treated in community day care. A 2002
Norwegian study of 25  children ages 4 to 7 found that the Lovaas
treatment prompted I.Q. gains of  17 points, although no child was
described as recovered, according to the  review. In other work,
researchers who have followed children through  Teacch, the Denver
Model and other programs have also noted accelerated  gains in I.Q.
and language, among other things.

"You are talking  about therapies that can raise I.Q.'s by 10 to 20
points, which is  significant, and very hard to do," Dr. Rogers said.

The Fundamental  Question

Still, scientists have not answered perhaps the most fundamental
question about these therapies: Why does one child thrive in
treatment  while another, equally affected, does not?

Most researchers have  hypotheses. Some believe the response could
have to do with structural  properties of the brain, which would show
up on brain scans. Others suspect  that children who do not do well in
treatment have a subtle language  processing problem in addition to
autism.

In his long experience,  Dr. Lovaas said, he has observed that
children who do not learn to imitate  others' speech within a few
months of treatment rarely do well. And  researchers in San Diego have
proposed that having a basic ability to  initiate social interaction
is crucial to success in treatment: they found  that children who
tried to engage their peers frequently during a short play  period did
very well in therapy.

Each of these ideas is under  investigation. "I expect with more
research we may find that there are two  groups of children - one
group that does well in directed teaching, and  another than needs a
biomedical treatment," said Dr. Geraldine Dawson,  director of the
autism program at the University of Washington in Seattle.  "And we
would be able to tell them apart."

But teasing apart such  subtle differences in language and brain
structure requires careful control,  and that is one thing autism
researchers do not have. With doctors  emphasizing the importance of
early treatment, parents of autistic children  hear the clock ticking
and try anything they can find. Three new surveys, of  a total of
2,500 parents in North Carolina, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania,
found that about three-quarters of families dealing with autism try
alternative treatments, usually as an accompaniment to structured
counseling programs.

One of the most popular options, tried by 50  percent to 70 percent of
parents, is sensory integration, a technique in  which therapists
often use swings or weighted vests to help "ground" a  child, and even
brush children's skin with a special brush.

About 25  to 40 percent of parents, the surveys find, try special
diets for their  children, most often a menu free of gluten, a protein
found in flour, and  casein, a protein in dairy products, which some
people believe prompt an  allergic reaction that causes or worsens
autism.

Many parents (10  percent to 30 percent) give their children large
doses of vitamins like  magnesium and B6 or food supplements, based on
reports that these regimes  have normalized behavior in some cases.
And up to 10 percent of parents have  paid to have their children go
horseback riding, swim in a pool with  dolphins or receive healing
touch therapy as part of a program for autism.

Scientists say they do not have rigorously controlled evidence that
any of these alternative treatments improves the core symptoms of
autism: social isolation, repetitive behaviors and difficulty in
developing language skills. In the surveys, parents generally agreed:
individual treatments often helped with some behaviors, like
agitation,  but seldom altered the fundamental disability.

"There's a grief response  to a diagnosis of autism; parents go
through mourning and denial, and  promising them their child will be
cured by these therapies gives them false  hope and only prolongs the
grief," said Dr. Siegel, of U.C.S.F.

In  fact, the surveys themselves contain hints of just how frustrated
many  families are: up to half the parents report that they have put
their  children on psychiatric medications, including antidepressants,
stimulants  like Ritalin and antipsychotic drugs usually prescribed
for schizophrenia.  These drugs can settle some of the symptoms
associated with autism, like  aggression, but they do not alter the
underlying condition and can play  havoc with some children's moods,
doctors say.

In the coming years,  experts say, the science of treatment should
become much clearer. The  National Institutes of Health is financing
some 70 studies related to  treatment, including a careful study of
the popular gluten- and casein-free  diet, being conducted by Dr.
Hyman in Rochester. And a group in Wisconsin  has completed a trial of
Dr. Lovaas's method among 23 children, and there  are 10 other sites
working on similar studies, according to Dr. Lovaas and  Dr. Smith,
who is coordinating the research. The results from these trials,  they
say, look encouraging.

Still, many parents who have brought  autistic children to adulthood
are not holding their breath. Having tried  some treatments and
watched others flare out, they say change is certainly  possible. But
that change tends to be slow, they say, and occurs not just in  their
children but also in their own expectations and ways of coping.

With the help of the Teacch program, Alice Wertheimer's son David has
continued through high school in special classes, learning over time
to  communicate, to be comfortable with himself, to have some
independence. At  18, he is a young man who enjoys repeating lines
from favorite movies,  mimicking other students and teachers, and
spending time with his parents.  As a child, Ms. Wertheimer said,
David rated somewhere in the middle of the  autism scale, but he has
come a long way. He is also still clearly autistic,  although that is
not how those who know him think about it.

"He is  who he is," Ms. Wertheimer said, "just a great, great  kid."



Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

yes hi again, tis me, freestone.

ya know, i have a suspician here.  that as same as in in Normals,
the left brain way of thinking is common. abstract verbal thinkings
RULE!  thus i predict that only about 20%
of all autistic people think in pictures!
I do.   i tried to memorize the hours of operation of a cafe, for
xmas week, i spent maybe ten minutes on reading this paper, and low
and behold next week i stood there in front of that closed door,
absolutely clueless!  of course, words are not images unless i can
recall that word AS an image. then and only then can i really think
about what the word meant!!  took me a year to rember the library
hours in my town of 600 people!  most people look a moment, and they
then know.

thus manuals and instruction books mean nothing to me.

I tend to offend, as i get bothered when i tell my stories and the
person has to let themselves be distracted onto something else.

thus, i a really sense i have something for to offend everyone, to
let them put me down.   even in my site of writings about where i
wrote up some of my out of body travels to the heavens, why i offend
deeply everyone.
--one person really commneted an offense to me, as he read of my
Visit to one of the HELLS of the homosexual!!   yes a hell, they
surely exist.   *this* hell, was only for homo men, apparently.
it was NOT that they were homo that they were here ; [ i want to be
clear on this, the commenter missed that one utterly!!]
the hell looked like a very pretty June day, so lush and green and so
"english countryside" .
a hell?
yes...as everyone there was utterly utterly self absorbed in them
selves!   "look at me....look at my perfect body"
everyone there had a perfect body.
no one looked at anyone else, let alone related to anyone else:
thus the hell.  i was TOLD by some guide who took me that this was a
homo hell, none of the residents even saw me or the guide!  self
absorbed, see!
not "atuism self absorbed either!   please do not jump to *that*
conclusion!
true self-centered, as in "sin"-definition by the church,
and "narrcissic personality" maybe stated by the psychologists!

I prefer the heven dreams where i have seen Jesus and my relatives!!

I probably will soon leave this list as i have others, due to
picture thinkings and such, i have no time for lists anyway, as i
have a thousand interests otherwheres!

but i salute the picture thinkers here, anyways, in my leavings.

freestone

My dad believes that his mother might have had it because her and I
are lot alike and my mom agreed with it. I can remember my mother
saying one of her sisters might have had it and the stories I've heard
about two of my other aunts, sounded all aspie. My mother's oldest
sister slamming drawers and doors and screaming at all her little
brother and sister while their parents were away, something my ex
aspie playmate did when he didn't get his way. Threw awful tantrums
and my aunt was one of those but it could have been something else
instead.


>
> I've recently read that AS can be hereditary. I didn't know that,
but that would explain why I've got it because I think my father must
have had it. He had a lot (but not all) of the same symptoms as I do.
We always just thought he was eccentric. This would explain a lot
about him, as it does about me.
> I'd be interested to know how many other's here believe they have a
parent who have AS.

--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, Denise DeGraf <moggy@s...>
wrote:

> Instead, he repeatedly tried to "break down barriers" through the
> same sort of nasty stuff that is done to many autistic children --
> pushing me into meltdowns ("learning to admit emotion") by wildly
> varying my schedule or doing other autism-unfriendly things,
> imposing full-body restraint ("learning to surrender control"),
> forcing physical affection upon me ("learning to accept
> closeness"), etc.

Wow.  That just made me realize something about the autistic woman who
worked for me once.  Very different subtype of autism, but
recognizably autistic.  (From whom I derive some of my experience of
"just because a staff person is autistic does not mean they have a
*clue* how to deal with autistic clients".)

She used to do this *thing* to me.  Where she'd force me to remember
some of my most painful memories, and when I finally went into a
meltdown or broke down crying, she'd start re-interpreting them for
me, and I'd *keep* melting down or crying, and so forth.  She
considered pushing my buttons "progress" of some sort, and I just
realized it might be what you just described.

She finally quit the day I would have fired her anyway.  She drove me
into a meltdown, claimed that my reactions (which did not involve
touching her or even making loud noises) were scaring and hurting her
and that it was my job not to do this to her.  Then when I went into
the other room and started slamming a door on my head, she physically
restrained me, which breached our agreement entirely (and she's really
lucky I didn't strike out at her -- that's *why* there's an agreement
in place that people *don't touch me* when I'm doing that).

She also had the usual staffish thing (and I've seen it in other
autistic people who take staff positions without realizing the full
gravity of the position) of mistaking being able to control someone's
actions with understanding them.  I'm very, very glad she doesn't work
for me anymore.

Amanda

--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "a.f.wilson"
<awilson42@g...> wrote:
> I was self-diagnosed for many years, but getting an official
> diagnosis was very validating. I stopped questioning it so much.
> Also, I was able to get accomodation at school that I previously
> was not able to get; I am now doing well, and it is like I am
> finally getting the help in school that I should've been getting
> all along.

I'm glad I have an official diagnosis because if I didn't, I'd have a
lot more trouble getting services.  And I've already proven
empirically that putting me in a house without services is Bad News in
capital letters.

Amanda

>
> Here's a condensed list of some of my symptoms:
>
> Hyper sensitive to bright light, especially sunlight. Also to sounds
> that other people don't consider noise. Smell, taste and touch also
> very sensitive. Don't like to be touched or for people to stand too
> close to me.

Lot of people don't like other people standung close to them for some
reason because when i was in high school, kids would tell me to go
away and I couldn't because I was waiting in line and I wasn;t
supposed to go anywhere because I was at softball practice, waiting in
the lunch line, in JMG class as we were outside playing a game and we
had to stand in a line to wait for our turn and the girls would tell
me to go away, then they would tell me not to stand so close to them
and give them space.




>
> Very intuitave, can read people like a book, but don't always get
> what they mean when in a social setting. Avoid eye contact or make
> too much eye contact. Superior IQ, but socially inadequate.
>
> Very empathic. Feel almost everyone's (psychic) suffering.
> Excellent deductive reasoning.
>
> Not on the same "wave length" as peers.
>
> There are many other traits of AS which describe me perfectly.
>
> And as you can see, I tend to elaborate way too much on subjects
> which interest me.
>
> I just want to understand myself better and learn from others how
> they cope and live with this condition.
> Thanks.
>
>  -- Mike

I was self-diagnosed for many years, but getting an official diagnosis
was very validating. I stopped questioning it so much. Also, I was
able to get accomodation at school that I previously was not able to
get; I am now doing well, and it is like I am finally getting the help
in school that I should've been getting all along.


On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 05:36:10 -0000, gaugebosons <gaugebosons@...> wrote:
>
>  There are a number of austistic groups in the US that have said that
>  adult typically self-diagnose themselves because the reason for
>  an "official diagnosis" is to get state funding for extra education.
>  Most adults are already beyond that, so who cares who diagnosed them.
>  YYou either recognize your self or you don't
>
>
>  --- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "Mircea Pauca"
>
>  <mpauca@p...> wrote:
>  >
>  >     Hello Mike "zxdex88" ! Greetings from Romania !
>  >
>  > > I haven't yet been diagnosed by a doctor because I haven't yet
>  seen
>  > > my doctor since I discovered I have Asperger's Syndrome, but I
>  first
>  > > read about this disorder a year ago and when I read what all the
>  > > symptoms are I knew I had finally found out why I am the way I am.
>  >
>  >     At age 30 I'm now diagnosed with "Autistic Personality"
>  > since Asperger's doesn't seem too widely known here.
>  >     I suspected something like this 2-3 years ago...
>  > but always knew I was well "different" and not
>  > "fit in" even if I was unusually "bright".
>  >
>  > > And as you can see, I tend to elaborate way too much on subjects
>  > > which interest me.
>  >
>  >     What are your special interests ?
>  >
>  >     Mine are collecting, books - literature, history, economics,
>  > applied math (probability, system dynamics), a bit of
>  > computers, and generally "thinking about" this world.
>  > Not "being inside" it, that I cannot stand.
>  >     And all these, reunited in my main hobby of conflict
>  > simulation / war gaming. There is a good niche of hobbyists,
>  > most of which are close to our Spectrum, at least in the
>  > good ways ;-)
>  >     Some of these, also used for work (teaching economic
>  > modelling, Cybernetics) - IF I can stand the really ugly
>  > social setting of our institutions.
>  >     Now I'm taking a voluntary pause. Will go back only
>  > if conditions improve _substantially_ on their part...
>  >
>  > > I just want to understand myself better and learn from
>  > > others how they cope and live with this condition.
>  >
>  >     Welcome to our friendly camp, and let's hope for
>  > reciprocal information and enlightenment !
>  >
>  >     Best wishes !
>  >     Mircea Pauca, Bucuresti, Romania
>  >
>  >
>  > > Thanks.
>  > >
>  > >  -- Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>  --
>
>
>
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--
there are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall
about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other
is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in
them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors.
-- C.S. Lewis

alfamanda jotted this down:
> One of my first friends was someone who, despite
> the fact that she was good friends with me, was *said* to be incapable of
> close contact and bonding by people who didn't understand what she was doing.
>  Brute-forcing her into "breaking that barrier" would've missed the point
> entirely.

Treating our natural methods of showing affection as not existing and claiming
we have to "break down barriers" also is seriously harmful, speaking firsthand.

My first partner (a NT) couldn't tell when I was being affectionate or showing
signs of having any kind of bond with him, healthy or otherwise.  Even when I
was exaggerating everything in hope it would become visible to him, he still
couldn't see/sense any of it.

Instead, he repeatedly tried to "break down barriers" through the same sort of
nasty stuff that is done to many autistic children -- pushing me into meltdowns
("learning to admit emotion") by wildly varying my schedule or doing other
autism-unfriendly things, imposing full-body restraint ("learning to surrender
control"), forcing physical affection upon me ("learning to accept closeness"),
etc.

What his efforts actually taught me was that my feelings weren't worthy of
consideration and that showing any independent will was wrong.  That I should
just do what he wanted, when he wanted, as I was there for other people to use. 
His behavior left me feeling empty and depressed, regardless of how I had been
trained to look on the outside -- like anybody that is being abused.

Contrast that with my extremely close bond with my current (autistic) partner. 
He can tell that I watch him constantly out of my peripheral vision and stare at
him when I think he can't see it; he knows that those are significant.  He
understands that my sitting silently in parallel formation with him while doing
an activity related to or similar to his is a show of our bond, that I
demonstrate affection by offering to share whatever food/drink I am about to
have, and even just touching him lightly as he (or I) walk past is an unusual
show of affection *only* he gets.

That acceptance/understanding has slowly worked to undo the damage the ex did. 
I know that how I feel matters, that there isn't anything wrong with it just
because I show it differently.  I again feel that I have as much of a right as
anybody to have independent wishes and exercise them.  Aside from being
stressed/unhappy over the long-distance aspect of our relationship (and P's
ongoing depression from having been treated by others the way my ex treated me),
I'm happy and feel loved as myself in it.

Neurotypicals watching me in my first relationship (with the NT) after years of
the ex's "barrier breaking" thought I was a devoted girlfriend; they very likely
would interpret my behavior towards Parrish as extremely aloof.  In reality, the
exact opposite is true -- this relationship has an incredibly strong bond at its
base, I'm filled with genuine feeling, whereas the relationship with the NT grew
increasingly shallow and fake as he put ever-more pressure on me to "break
barriers" and show my emotions in a way that was natural for him rather than for
me.

--
Denise DeGraf ~*~ http://sonic.net/mustang/moggy

On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 11:15:06AM -0800, Denise DeGraf wrote:

> Or they learn while actively moving.

As a child, I did some of my most significant thinking while jumping on a
trampoline.  I'm too old to do it now, but I still find I have to pace or
exercise to really think.

And, I certainly don't consider myself hyperactive.

Dave

dacl jotted this down:
> We had to restrain him somewhat for learning times or the barrier of
> hyperactivity would prevent any teaching at all.

It's not impossible or even necessarily more difficult to learn while being
physically active (or "hyperactive")...  Plenty of people (NT or AC) learn best
when they're doing something physically vigorous -- they look at something for a
flash, engage in a great deal of motion (running around, spinning, etc.) while
they process it, then go back to look at it again, return to moving, go back to
check out the next stage, etc.  Or they learn while actively moving.

I can go either way, but I do just fine reading/writing/listening etc. while on
an exercise machine, pacing in circles, bouncing, or doing other physical
activity.  I don't *have* to sit still in order to "learn" and I'm not sure
others do either.  Sometimes I do need to be physically active (without pause)
in order to really focus on anything; at times like that, it's almost impossible
to even think clearly if I'm not moving, and if I'm also feeling energetic
(which is different) trying to keep still would further erode my cognitive
function.

--
Denise DeGraf ~*~ http://sonic.net/mustang/moggy

On Thu, Dec 23, 2004 at 05:22:43PM -0000, alfamanda wrote:

> I don't know for you, but for me I actually thought I was bisexual for
> awhile (sorry to anyone who really is -- some of us really do think
> that before realizing we're not) because it seemed only "logical" that
> I wouldn't want to choose someone based on gender.  However, I
> eventually figured out that some things in the world aren't logical
> and that I was gay.  (I've never had gay sexual experiences, it's just
> a difference in who I end up attracted to.)

Growing up autistic was challenging.  Growing up as a gay autistic was
confusing.  Growing up as a gay autistic from a fundamentalist background
was just downright painful.

This background caused me to deny/supress/hide my sexual identity, based
mostly on misinformation and lies.  When I learned about autism, I thought
it answered my questions about why I was the way I was.  It did answer some
things, but not everything.  Once I saw past the self-condemnation, my
identity really became quite clear.  I had tried so hard to make myself
attracted to women, and it just didn't work :-)  Then, I blamed autism for
giving me bad social "skills".  But my "skills" in this area were much
worse than they were in other contexts.

> (I've never had gay sexual experiences, it's just a difference in who I
> end up attracted to.)

I wish more people understood this.  It is a neurological difference at a
very foundational level.  So far, the one very conservative person I've
told didn't understand at all.  Since I've never been sexually active (at
least with anyone else), being gay didn't make any sense to him.  I guess
it is easier for someone to argue against something when they create a
false impression of what that thing is.  I believe this is referred to as a
straw-man argument.

The part that is the most difficult is dealing with the homophobe who is
closest to me: myself.  I don't completely understand internal convictions.
I can conclude logically, and through reason that this isn't "evil", but
something internal (not conscious) seems to be much slower in changing.

BTW, I still consider myself a strong Christian, and I still accept what
the Bible teaches.  I think most Christians are misreading the text,
probably largely out of either ignorance or hatred.  Finding other gay
Christians has really helped with this.

Dave

--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "gaugebosons"
<gaugebosons@a...> wrote:

> I grew up that way with 3 sisters and feel much more comfortable
> around women.  and so I started in college thinking I was "gay".
> Although I think having sex with guys is fun, deep down I am thinking
> that I also like fun women.  So I wonder if for AS people who have to
> learn interaction rules... am I gay because I am gay... or am I gay
> because it was easier to relate to in high school??

I don't know for you, but for me I actually thought I was bisexual for
awhile (sorry to anyone who really is -- some of us really do think
that before realizing we're not) because it seemed only "logical" that
I wouldn't want to choose someone based on gender.  However, I
eventually figured out that some things in the world aren't logical
and that I was gay.  (I've never had gay sexual experiences, it's just
a difference in who I end up attracted to.)

Amanda

Thank you Rachel,

Reading your description of your half-brother Eric was like reading a
description of myself, right down to the ability to draw a perfect copy of
someone else's artwork but not being able to create any characters of my own.
I'm beginning to see that many of us have a parent or sibling who also has AS.
I'm in a way glad to know this because it explains to me where my AS came from.
I always wondered why my father was so "different" from other men, but it never
once occurred to me that I had inherited the same condition from him. When I was
a boy I secretly thought that I was just crazy, you know, the way kids think
sometimes, because I had never heard of anyone else like me.
I think perhaps my oldest brother might have a milder version of AS because he
has some of the traits, but not as many of them as I do. He functions in society
better than I do.


Mike







Rachel Newstead <rnewstead@...> wrote:
June wrote:

>--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, WAYNE COLLINS
><zxdex88@y...> wrote:
>
>
>>I'd be interested to know how many other's here believe they have a
>>
>>
>  >   parent who have AS.
>
>Yes, my dad. Although we are different people (obviously) it's easy
>enough [for me] to see that we both have the same neurological makup.
>-june
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Hi,

Not just a parent, but siblings as well.

I think my biological father would definitely fit in that category,
based on my mother's description of his quirks (like his dogmatic,
black-and-white view of the world and his compulsion to put his name on
*everything*).

My half-brother Eric (the youngest child of my mother's second marriage)
would probably fit as well, considering that he spoke late (close to 3),
has AS-like obsessions (comic-book collecting and "sword and sorcery"
genre books of everything from Tolkien to Robert E. Howard [Conan the
Barbarian].) He also has an incredibly high IQ, but his intelligence was
misunderstood by teachers--he was misdiagnosed as learning disabled in
the fifth grade. (He would spend time in class doing whatever interested
*him*--they never considered he was bored silly by the inane activities
the class was involved in).

When he was four, he came to Mom with a pyramid he'd made out of Legos,
and told her to find the "secret panel." She condescendingly said, "OK,
honey," and half-heartedly tried to look. He took the pyramid, moved a
couple Lego blocks--and the center of the pyramid dropped out.

He is more artistically talented than I am, able to copy comic-book
covers down to the exact detail, using just colored pencil and a
felt-tip pen (his drawings are almost indistinguishable from the
original). Yet when I urged him to pursue cartooning as a career, he
insisted he absolutely could not create his own characters or draw from
memory.

My mother always described him as being painfully shy, yet among small
groups of people his wicked wit really shows. He has an ability to come
up with a hiliarious remark on the fly akin to Robin Williams or Jim
Carrey. (Both of whom he admires, by the way).

It would seem, then, that there is a possible genetic basis for autism
on both sides of my family. I should point out, though, that no one in
my family has ever been diagnosed as such.

Yet I would say that of the two of us, Eric probably comes across as
more legitimately AS.

Rachel

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This is what I've been saying all along.  I think we aspies are "wired"
differently.  That's why we perceive the world differently than most
people... Interesting theory you have there..


Brad


----- Original Message -----
From: "gaugebosons" <gaugebosons@...>
To: <AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 12:39 AM
Subject: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: Fascination With Items Of Transport...


>
>
> This is a very interesting comment to me.  I am going to be paying
> attention from now of as to whether it is that AS people are more
> aware of being "apart" and can then sense the fact that we are
> moving... or if it's more a function of liking systems and inanimate
> objects.  I am beginning to think that maybe AS people have a
> different "gyroscope" in their brain.
>
> --- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "maurice frank"
> <aspieknee@l...> wrote:
>>
>> It's control over space, and a feeling of safety through knowledge
> as
>> you move through it. We get this from studying patterns and forms
> of
>> movement, directly, instead of from the more unreliable NT safety
> of
>> belonging with our peer groups and going where they go.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

June wrote:

>--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, WAYNE COLLINS
><zxdex88@y...> wrote:
>
>
>>I'd be interested to know how many other's here believe they have a
>>
>>
>  >   parent who have AS.
>
>Yes, my dad. Although we are different people (obviously) it's easy
>enough [for me] to see that we both have the same neurological makup.
>-june
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Hi,

Not just a parent, but siblings as well.

I think my biological father would definitely fit in that category,
based on my mother's description of his quirks (like his dogmatic,
black-and-white view of the world and his compulsion to put his name on
*everything*).

My half-brother Eric (the youngest child of my mother's second marriage)
would probably fit as well, considering that he spoke late (close to 3),
has AS-like obsessions (comic-book collecting and "sword and sorcery"
genre books of everything from Tolkien to Robert E. Howard [Conan the
Barbarian].) He also has an incredibly high IQ, but his intelligence was
misunderstood by teachers--he was misdiagnosed as learning disabled in
the fifth grade. (He would spend time in class doing whatever interested
*him*--they never considered he was bored silly by the inane activities
the class was involved in).

When he was four, he came to Mom with a pyramid he'd made out of Legos,
and told her to find the "secret panel." She condescendingly said, "OK,
honey," and half-heartedly tried to look. He took the pyramid, moved a
couple Lego blocks--and the center of the pyramid dropped out.

He is more artistically talented than I am, able to copy comic-book
covers down to the exact detail, using just colored pencil and a
felt-tip pen (his drawings are almost indistinguishable from the
original). Yet when I urged him to pursue cartooning as a career, he
insisted he absolutely could not create his own characters or draw from
memory.

  My mother always described him as being painfully shy, yet among small
groups of people his wicked wit really shows. He has an ability to come
up with a hiliarious remark on the fly akin to Robin Williams or Jim
Carrey. (Both of whom he admires, by the way).

  It would seem, then, that there is a possible genetic basis for autism
on both sides of my family. I should point out, though, that no one in
my family has ever been diagnosed as such.

Yet I would say that of the two of us, Eric probably comes across as
more legitimately AS.

Rachel

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This is an interesting thought.  I have read in books on As that
they "warn" parents that their sons might seem "gay" because they
don't do "normal guy things" and might just be mimicking their mom's
behavior.

I grew up that way with 3 sisters and feel much more comfortable
around women.  and so I started in college thinking I was "gay".
Although I think having sex with guys is fun, deep down I am thinking
that I also like fun women.  So I wonder if for AS people who have to
learn interaction rules... am I gay because I am gay... or am I gay
because it was easier to relate to in high school??


--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, David Brown <asp@d...>
wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2004 at 06:49:57PM -0000, andrewgrindell wrote:
   Only as I've come to accept
> that not only am I autistic, I am also gay has this started to make
sense.
>