This post is sent out automatically every month to the whole list as a service
to new members.

Here some of the abbreviations and terms we use often on this list:

BTW - by the way
FWIW - for what it's worth
IMO (IMHO) - in my (humble) opinion
OTOH - on the other hand
LOL - laughing out loud
ROFL - rolling on the floor laughing
ROFLMBO - rolling on the floor laughing my butt off
<g> - grin or giggle
<bg> - big grin or giggle (also <vbg> very big grin, <vvbg> - well you get the
idea)

AC - Autistic or Cousin (somebody on the autism spectrum)
AS - Asperger's Syndrome
ASD - Autistic Spectrum Disorder
NT - Neurotypical (not on the autism spectrum)
Aspie - A person with AS
Autie - A person with Autism
ADD - Attention Deficit Disorder
ADHD - Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder
SID - Sensory Integration Disorder
OCD - Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
ODD - Oppositional Defiant Disorder
CAPD- Central Auditory Processing Disorder

St. Tony - Dr. Tony Attwood, one of the formost authorities on AS,
       author of the book, "Asperger's Syndrome - a guide for Parents
       and Professionals" and other books.
Carol the Great - Carol Gray, the author of many good books on
       Social Skills for people with AS and related disorders.

Thanks, Rhonda, for coming back to me.
There is a command:
"Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
I think it's quite well known, but most people don't get to looking
closely at the second half of it: you should love yourself as much as
you do your neighbour. This is only limited by Paul's telling us that we
must not think more highly of ourselves than we should; so, we can think
highly of ourselves up to that level, but be careful; it is very easy
for 'Hubris' to creep in and we get arrogant.
David NZ

Rhonda wrote:
>
> Thank you, David, for your encouragement!
> I will try to think more highly of myself.
>
> Would it be possible to post one of my better
> pictures to this board and get everyone's feed-
> back?
>
> I tried to upload one, but, for some reason,
> I couldn't get it to. If it is against the
> board's policy, I will not attempt to post it.
>
> Best wishes,
> Rhonda
>
> ____________________________
>
> Is ANYONE really "normal"?
> Celebrate the AS difference!
> ____________________________
>
> To post, send message to AS-and-proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
> To subscribe, send message to
> AS-and-proud-of-it-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> To unsubscribe, send message to
> AS-and-proud-of-it-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> AS-and-proud-of-it-owner@yahoogroups.com
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>
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>      Service.

Much may depend on the dosage. As Temple Grandin says, ASDs tend to need
minimal doses of some medications because the 'normal
David NZ

Mircea Pauca wrote:
>
> Gareeth wrote:
>
> > As for to be social or not I wouldn't take a medication to
> specifically
> > improve that. I did take a microdose of luvox technically for social
> anxiety
> > for a few years while doing courses at university. The reasoning was
> similar
> > in that I had reached a point where this symptom was a significant
> barrier
> > to the goals I hoped to achieve. PLus it had a second useful effect
> in
> that
> > at the dose I was taking it at it was specifically for an autism
> related
>
>     Was Luvox useful for this social effect ? in what way ?
> useful for increasing overall energy ? They say it can have a
> monstruous effect of insensivity (like that boy who massacred other
> kids and teachers in the Columbine, US school).
>     I've never found a clear enough description of the effects of SSRI
> antidepressants in general (or specifically: Seroxat/Paxil, Prozac,
> Luvox,
> Zoloft etc.)- and here in Romania they're used too rarely to ask
> directly.
> Opinions on various sites vary from 'wonder' to 'poison' and are never
> too clear - like 'made me myself again' but I never was different from
> me
> ;-)
>
> I've also composed this check list to ask, but found no one to ask ;-)
>
>     "In what directions would an SSRI modify:
> - Motivation, drive to act and/or win
> - General arousal, appropriate or not
> - Energy, stamina, sustaining prolonged effort
> - Careful attention to all details
> - Tolerance to risk
> - Decisiveness ('what the heck, that's it, for good or worse' !)
> - Shifting quickly the main effort when not so effective
> - Coolness in adverse situations
> - Clear analytical thinking
> - Dealing effectively with diversity, 'task swapping'
> - 'Moral restraints'
> - Empathy, 'feel' for the situation from others' perspective
> - Multi-person thinking and communication [Diplomacy...]
> - General metabolism, weight +/- etc.
> - does it help differently for the Real World as opposed to
> simulations ?
>
>     Thank you in advance for any opinions and/or experiences
>     Mircea Pauca (mpauca@...), Bucuresti, Romania
>
> "Designate, sustain and shift the main effort !" (FM 100-5)
>
> ____________________________
>
> Is ANYONE really "normal"?
> Celebrate the AS difference!
> ____________________________
>
> To post, send message to AS-and-proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
> To subscribe, send message to
> AS-and-proud-of-it-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> To unsubscribe, send message to
> AS-and-proud-of-it-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> To get a message to the list owner, send to
> AS-and-proud-of-it-owner@yahoogroups.com
> AS-and-proud-of-it home page:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AS-and-proud-of-it
>
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>    * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AS-and-Proud-of-it/
>
>    * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>      AS-and-Proud-of-it-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>    * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>      Service.
' dose is an OD for us. I was given Equanil once, which said 2 tabs per
day. I found my correct dose was 1/8 tablet every three months, if at
all.

Mircea Pauca wrote:
>
> Gareeth wrote:
>
> > As for to be social or not I wouldn't take a medication to
> specifically
> > improve that. I did take a microdose of luvox technically for social
> anxiety
> > for a few years while doing courses at university. The reasoning was
> similar
> > in that I had reached a point where this symptom was a significant
> barrier
> > to the goals I hoped to achieve. PLus it had a second useful effect
> in
> that
> > at the dose I was taking it at it was specifically for an autism
> related
>
>     Was Luvox useful for this social effect ? in what way ?
> useful for increasing overall energy ? They say it can have a
> monstruous effect of insensivity (like that boy who massacred other
> kids and teachers in the Columbine, US school).
>     I've never found a clear enough description of the effects of SSRI
> antidepressants in general (or specifically: Seroxat/Paxil, Prozac,
> Luvox,
> Zoloft etc.)- and here in Romania they're used too rarely to ask
> directly.
> Opinions on various sites vary from 'wonder' to 'poison' and are never
> too clear - like 'made me myself again' but I never was different from
> me
> ;-)
>
> I've also composed this check list to ask, but found no one to ask ;-)
>
>     "In what directions would an SSRI modify:
> - Motivation, drive to act and/or win
> - General arousal, appropriate or not
> - Energy, stamina, sustaining prolonged effort
> - Careful attention to all details
> - Tolerance to risk
> - Decisiveness ('what the heck, that's it, for good or worse' !)
> - Shifting quickly the main effort when not so effective
> - Coolness in adverse situations
> - Clear analytical thinking
> - Dealing effectively with diversity, 'task swapping'
> - 'Moral restraints'
> - Empathy, 'feel' for the situation from others' perspective
> - Multi-person thinking and communication [Diplomacy...]
> - General metabolism, weight +/- etc.
> - does it help differently for the Real World as opposed to
> simulations ?
>
>     Thank you in advance for any opinions and/or experiences
>     Mircea Pauca (mpauca@...), Bucuresti, Romania
>
> "Designate, sustain and shift the main effort !" (FM 100-5)
>
> ____________________________
>
> Is ANYONE really "normal"?
> Celebrate the AS difference!
> ____________________________
>
> To post, send message to AS-and-proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
> To subscribe, send message to
> AS-and-proud-of-it-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> To unsubscribe, send message to
> AS-and-proud-of-it-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> To get a message to the list owner, send to
> AS-and-proud-of-it-owner@yahoogroups.com
> AS-and-proud-of-it home page:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AS-and-proud-of-it
>
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>    * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AS-and-Proud-of-it/
>
>    * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>      AS-and-Proud-of-it-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>    * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>      Service.

>I know what you mean about not being able to
>afford all that film and developing. I've
>never used a digital camera before, and since
>they *are* so expensive, it will be a while before
>I'll be able to buy a good one I could use pro-
>fessionally.

The one I have only cost $225

but then it's a consumer-level one.

>What type of music do you play? Do you sing or
>play an instrument (or both)?

neither really, I compose/program rather than play.  It's all electronic.
And stylistically it tends to be fairly experimental and weird.

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Hi, Scott!

I know what you mean about not being able to
afford all that film and developing. I've
never used a digital camera before, and since
they *are* so expensive, it will be a while before
I'll be able to buy a good one I could use pro-
fessionally.

What type of music do you play? Do you sing or
play an instrument (or both)?

Regards,
Rhonda



******************************************
>Photography is just a hobby with me, too.
>I just thought I'd *try* to make it a career.
>I'm not sure I can do it, but I don't know
>what else to try.

For me, music is my main creative outlet. Photography is somewhat
secondary, but I still do it a lot.

>I've never used a digital camera before.
>Are they harder to use?

The one I have is probably easier to use- it's more simplified in
terms of
controls, than, say a film SLR camera. There are more advanced digital
cameras available but they're way out of my price range.

Really, I have to use a digital camera because of the number of
photos I
take- I couldn't afford developing all the film.

Thank you, David, for your encouragement!
I will try to think more highly of myself.

Would it be possible to post one of my better
pictures to this board and get everyone's feed-
back?

I tried to upload one, but, for some reason,
I couldn't get it to. If it is against the
board's policy, I will not attempt to post it.

Best wishes,
Rhonda

>Photography is just a hobby with me, too.
>I just thought I'd *try* to make it a career.
>I'm not sure I can do it, but I don't know
>what else to try.

For me, music is my main creative outlet.  Photography is somewhat
secondary, but I still do it a lot.

>I've never used a digital camera before.
>Are they harder to use?

The one I have is probably easier to use- it's more simplified in terms of
controls, than, say a film SLR camera.  There are more advanced digital
cameras available but they're way out of my price range.

Really, I have to use a digital camera because of the number of photos I
take- I couldn't afford developing all the film.

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--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "Mircea Pauca" <mpauca@f...

PURELY personal experience on the following:

>     "In what directions would an SSRI modify:
> - Motivation, drive to act and/or win

More like it made me do more things whether I wanted to or not.

> - General arousal, appropriate or not

Don't know what this means.

> - Energy, stamina, sustaining prolonged effort

Not sure if there was any appreciable effect there.

> - Careful attention to all details

Don't know what this means.

> - Tolerance to risk

Made me overly uncautious.  I'm *already* overly uncautious in many
respects, but this made it worse.

> - Decisiveness ('what the heck, that's it, for good or worse' !)

Made me "decide" to do things before I figured out what I was
*thinking*.  Which could include very dangerous things.

> - Shifting quickly the main effort when not so effective

Don't know.

> - Coolness in adverse situations

Don't know.

> - Clear analytical thinking

Didn't give me time to think, too much acting.

> - Dealing effectively with diversity, 'task swapping'

Seemed to improve my executive function, if that's what you mean, but
it improved it to a degree that by the time I'd caught up with what I
was thinking, I was already halfway through doing it, whether I wanted
to be or not.

> - 'Moral restraints'

I don't know.  It made me more likely to do *anything* I thought about
even fleetingly, moral or not.

> - Empathy, 'feel' for the situation from others' perspective

No effect.

> - Multi-person thinking and communication [Diplomacy...]

No effect.

> - General metabolism, weight +/- etc.

Don't remember.  I know some of them did have weird effects on my
body, though.

> - does it help differently for the Real World as opposed to
> simulations ?

Huh???

Amanda

>     Was Luvox useful for this social effect ? in what way ?
>useful for increasing overall energy ? They say it can have a
>monstruous effect of insensivity (like that boy who massacred other
>kids and teachers in the Columbine, US school).

While I don't doubt there are potentially severe side effects of any kind of
meds that alter the chemical balances within the brain, and there is not
enough research on the effects of such meds on adolscents/teenagers, I don't
sunscribe to the opinion that the Colimbine killings were prompted or
effectively enabled by meds. Too easy. My days in a school in public schools
are not so long ago, and I work in education here in the US, and I have
witnessed a well endrenched network of denial and unresponsiveness to issues
of bullying and social ostracism in many places, and if anything, the
problem gets covered up by medicating the victims. I believe that is
primarily why such things have happened here in the US. I remember during
the 8th grade, having been viciously bullied for a year and a half without
any kind of intervention from adults, I began bringing a hunting knife to
school with me for the remainder of my 8th grade year. There were specific
kids I wanted to hurt, because at that point, simply being in the same room
with them was torture for me. And while I didn't act on those impulses, it
remains that the severity of how I was treated never was addressed or taken
seriously at any point, and I ended being the one punished for having a
knife, resulting in me being further ostracized, and that was about 10 years
*before* Columbine, in another part of the US. As horrific as Columbine was,
I'm surprise something like it didn't happen while I was a teenager.

  >     I've never found a clear enough description of the effects of SSRI
>antidepressants in general (or specifically: Seroxat/Paxil, Prozac, Luvox,
>Zoloft etc.)- and here in Romania they're used too rarely to ask directly.
>Opinions on various sites vary from 'wonder' to 'poison' and are never
>too clear - like 'made me myself again' but I never was different from me
>;-)
>

The effects of SSRIs are bound to vary greatly, given the basic nature of
that class of meds. It will vary depending so many factors that it's
difficult to really encapsulate and, having been on Zoloft myself, I
seriously doubt most mental health professionals are aware of just how
varied an individual's response to them can be.

>I've also composed this check list to ask, but found no one to ask ;-)
>
I can offer you my experience of being on Zolft for a 18 months, for
treatment of an episode of severe depression, but not social anxiety (which
Zoloft is also prescribed for):

>     "In what directions would an SSRI modify:
>- Motivation, drive to act and/or win

It didn't really improve motivation. It made doing things easier by
alleviating some of my severe fatigue, but beyond that, not much.

>- General arousal, appropriate or not

No effect here. But then again I'm an Aspie, so my means to arousal aren't
normative anyhow. As for overall sex drive and interest, I didn't experience
any increase in it (at the time, I doubt it could have been any more
decreased) but I did notice a dramatic increase *after* I stopped taking
Zoloft.

>- Energy, stamina, sustaining prolonged effort

Yes, but in a sort of moderated sense. I didn't become manic, or anything
close to it. In fact I felt strangely indifferent and unaffected by things
that normally drained or taxed me. My energy level, although not dramtically
high, always felt artificial while on the med.

>- Careful attention to all details

It did improve my concentration, which was badly hinderd by the depression,
but it didn't make me more or less attentive to details that i normally had
been.

>- Tolerance to risk

Again, I felt strangely indifferent to things and circumstances, so I wasn't
very prompted to take risks. I suspect that the Zoloft may have put a cap on
my adrenaline production, the key hormone for such risk-taking behavior. I
felt like I was simply "biding my time" while on Zoloft.

>- Decisiveness ('what the heck, that's it, for good or worse' !)

No, no change. I'm prone to indecisiveness, and the kind of indifference I
felt with Zoloft didn't help.

>- Shifting quickly the main effort when not so effective

Yes, I could shift focus fairly easily, if prompted to.

>- Coolness in adverse situations

Again, it was more of indifference than maintaining my cool. This too felt
artificial, like I was detached for situations that would normally prompt an
emotional response.

>- Clear analytical thinking

No. Depression clouds my ability to think clearly and analytically, which I
do normally to an extent far more than NTs. Zoloft helped get me out of the
worst of my depression, but I didn't regain my normal clarity of thought
until after I stopped taking it.

>- Dealing effectively with diversity, 'task swapping'

I find multitasking easier now that I'm off Zoloft than on. While on, I was
just too indifferent to be that effective.

>- 'Moral restraints'

Normally I don't have much moral restraints -- logical restraints yes.
However, my depression tends to be loaded with feelings of intense shame,
which are more irrational and paranoid than moral. In this Zoloft did help,
but again I suspect it was due more to the feeling of indifference.

>- Empathy, 'feel' for the situation from others' perspective

No, I noticed no change in this area while on Zoloft. During depressive
episodes I become more emotive, but I don't think I became more or less
empathic.

>- Multi-person thinking and communication [Diplomacy...]

No, no change here either. I would think this is more of a skill, and that
SSRI would do little to change the skill itself, only one's ability to act
on it.

>- General metabolism, weight +/- etc.

Zoloft did a bit of a number on my thyroid, heart, liver and nervous system,
although alledgedly it's not suppose to. However, regardless, so people are
bound to be physicially more senstive to such meds than others. After taking
Zoloft, I switched to an herbal regime targeting these problems and my
metabolism and general physical health has improved dramatically.

>- does it help differently for the Real World as opposed to simulations ?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean, what it did for me measure
up to what the trials claimed it would do? If so, then yes and no. Some of
my responses were what my psychiatrist expected, some weren't.

Overall, for me, Zoloft helped me get out of a tough spot, but beyond that
it was a hinderence. I'm glad I'm off it now -- I feel much more myself,
even if I'm not Miss Happy Go Lucky. Another thing you didn't list was
creativeity and creative drive: for me this was hindered greatly by Zoloft.
I write and play music, and while on Zoloft I rarely had any strong urge or
inspiration to do these things. My creative drive had all but vanished (I
had much more while depresed, it's just i was too depressed to act on it).
This I found very frustrating and it, along with the damage it was doing to
me physically, was the main reason why I stopped taking it. Hope you find
some of this helpful - Cade

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Mircea Pauca wrote:
>
>     Was Luvox useful for this social effect ? in what way ?
> useful for increasing overall energy ? They say it can have a
> monstruous effect of insensivity (like that boy who massacred other
> kids and teachers in the Columbine, US school).
>
I think it was Prozac he was on wasn't it? Luvox I think is an SRI not a
SSRI.
While they have tried to support that cliam it is far more likely that that
kid was a sociopath all along. He is no different off it and prior to taking
it he was not all that different. In the wake of something like that people
look for a reason because it is so horrible and most people find someone
being capable of that too hoorible so they look for something to blame;
Bully9ing, medications, family, etc... The fact is that while all those can
be very problematic most people don't respond to it that way.

It was a long time since I was put on it. Luvox wass the first SRI to be
studied specifically for use in autism eons ago and it was really only the
fact that they had done several large subject studies that made me inclined
to beleive it. I had those studies in print but there isn't a chance of
finding them in this mess. It worked I think by slightly reducing anxiety. I
was on 1/10th of the the susual starting dose for treatment for depression
though for years. WHat I noticed was that while I Had been going through a
time where I was increasingly inclined to stay home rather than go to the
university and that I would get anxious of someone approached me on the quad
and every time I had to be near people (which given the hundreds ofd people
to be found in the halls and cafeteeria was a lot of anxiety) This pretty
well went away awhile after starting the luvox. I used it for a few years
for that but then one time I had to be hospitalized for depression and my
psychatritrist thought that since I was tolerating it well at a microdose
for anixiety he would up it to the therepeutic dose for depression. It
didn't work at the usual dose or a higher dose for my depression. What wound
up happening was after having been on those larger doses it also stopped
working at a microdose for social anxiety too.

Gareeth

Gareeth wrote:

> As for to be social or not I wouldn't take a medication to specifically
> improve that. I did take a microdose of luvox technically for social
anxiety
> for a few years while doing courses at university. The reasoning was
similar
> in that I had reached a point where this symptom was a significant barrier
> to the goals I hoped to achieve. PLus it had a second useful effect in
that
> at the dose I was taking it at it was specifically for an autism related

     Was Luvox useful for this social effect ? in what way ?
useful for increasing overall energy ? They say it can have a
monstruous effect of insensivity (like that boy who massacred other
kids and teachers in the Columbine, US school).
     I've never found a clear enough description of the effects of SSRI
antidepressants in general (or specifically: Seroxat/Paxil, Prozac, Luvox,
Zoloft etc.)- and here in Romania they're used too rarely to ask directly.
Opinions on various sites vary from 'wonder' to 'poison' and are never
too clear - like 'made me myself again' but I never was different from me
;-)

I've also composed this check list to ask, but found no one to ask ;-)

     "In what directions would an SSRI modify:
- Motivation, drive to act and/or win
- General arousal, appropriate or not
- Energy, stamina, sustaining prolonged effort
- Careful attention to all details
- Tolerance to risk
- Decisiveness ('what the heck, that's it, for good or worse' !)
- Shifting quickly the main effort when not so effective
- Coolness in adverse situations
- Clear analytical thinking
- Dealing effectively with diversity, 'task swapping'
- 'Moral restraints'
- Empathy, 'feel' for the situation from others' perspective
- Multi-person thinking and communication [Diplomacy...]
- General metabolism, weight +/- etc.
- does it help differently for the Real World as opposed to simulations ?

     Thank you in advance for any opinions and/or experiences
     Mircea Pauca (mpauca@...), Bucuresti, Romania

"Designate, sustain and shift the main effort !" (FM 100-5)

The late Brian Brake, of NZ, a famous photographer who used to
specialise in catching people just as they were, unawares, said he
considered he had done well if he got one good picture out of ten that
was any good.
David NZ

Rhonda wrote:
>
> Thanks, Larry, for your words...
> "It is not the camera but the vision of the person behind it."
> They have given me encouragement and have lessened my fears
> of self-consciousness about not knowing enough about the craft.
> Sometimes, great art that speaks to souls isn't measured in f-stops.
>
> Namaste'
> Rhonda
>
> *********************************
>
> Re: Careers
>
> No
>
> It is not the camera but the vision of the person behind it.
>
> Of course it does help having something that can do justice to the
> vision. I
> am dyspraxic and clumsy, but then so is David Bailey
>
> Larry
>
> ____________________________
>
> Is ANYONE really "normal"?
> Celebrate the AS difference!
> ____________________________
>
> To post, send message to AS-and-proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
> To subscribe, send message to
> AS-and-proud-of-it-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> To unsubscribe, send message to
> AS-and-proud-of-it-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> To get a message to the list owner, send to
> AS-and-proud-of-it-owner@yahoogroups.com
> AS-and-proud-of-it home page:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AS-and-proud-of-it
>
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>    * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AS-and-Proud-of-it/
>
>    * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>      AS-and-Proud-of-it-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>    * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>      Service.

I think you need to see some knowledgeable doctor and sort out if and
what you may need.
David NZ

Mike wrote:
>
> I'm really starting to think that I might need medication, like the
> kind that people with ADD would take, Ritalin or something.  I just
> feel like I've been completely lacking any type of drive or
> motivation, and I can't pay attention to anyone or anything for very
> long, or focus on two things at once.  I'm also very addicted to the
> internet and I rarely actually do anything worthwhile on there.  I
> feel like if I don't do someting about there's no way I'm gonna be
> able to do well in school, have a decent social life, or pursue a
> career.  Is this really the right way to go?
>
> ____________________________
>
> Is ANYONE really "normal"?
> Celebrate the AS difference!
> ____________________________
>
> To post, send message to AS-and-proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
> To subscribe, send message to
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If you sibillate the aspirate you get 'shell'.
David NZ

ojmalm wrote:
>
> Anymore meanings of "hell"?
>
> --- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "dacl@i..." <dacl@i...>
> wrote:
> > In German it means 'bright' as in lighting.
> > David NZ
> >
> > ojmalm wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes it is! I actually think the name really means rock or slab or
> > > something like that. Funny enough, "hell" also means "luck" in
> > > Norwegian!
> > >
> > > --- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "Stan's Computer"
> > > <vze2txm3@v...> wrote:
> > > > On 29 Jan 2004 ojmalm wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > ... I live in a rural town in central Norway where a
> > > > > man who doesn't have a girlfriend or is married by age 20 is
> > > either
> > > > > gay or retarded...
> > > >
> > > > now i know where to go if i have to move!
> > > >
> > > > next time someone tells me to go to Hell, i'll look at the map,
> > > > see that Hell is a rural town near Trondheim, and realize the
> > > > person giving me that advise only wishes me the best.
> > > > (:
> > >
> > > ____________________________
> > >
> > > Is ANYONE really "normal"?
> > > Celebrate the AS difference!
> > > ____________________________
> > >
> > > To post, send message to AS-and-proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
> > > To subscribe, send message to
> > > AS-and-proud-of-it-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
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>
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> Celebrate the AS difference!
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Rhonda,
Looks to me like you need to practice some self-confidence and step out
in faith that you can do it. Don't set out defeated before you start.
David NZ

Rhonda wrote:
>
> Hi, Larry!
> That's some of what I'm afraid of, too.
> I'm not sure I can "make it" as a photographer.
> Just not sure what else to try.
> I don't even know if I'm good enough at taking
> good quality pictures.
> I get all excited about a certain idea, then,
> after a short while, my excitement fades and
> I give up on the idea.
> I just wish I could make up my mind and stick
> with a decision! <sigh>
>
> Thanks for writing!
> Rhonda
>
> ****************************************
> I tried as a photographer but in the end I paid more on advertising
> and
> varios expenses than I ever made and ended up getting a tax refund :(
>
> All this in spite of the fact that I take good pictures. Marketing is
> everything and I failed in that respect.
>
> Sales of the Video I made however are doing well, but that is
> strictly not
> for profit.
>
> Larry
>
> ____________________________
>
> Is ANYONE really "normal"?
> Celebrate the AS difference!
> ____________________________
>
> To post, send message to AS-and-proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
> To subscribe, send message to
> AS-and-proud-of-it-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> AS-and-proud-of-it-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
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There is Partners of AS, and a different group, which is AS partners.  I
think it is the second group that is made up mostly of NT women, who are
very dissastified with their Aspie husbands.  But the first group gives a
much more positive view of AS.
> >Subject: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] for all who want to help
> >Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:58:54 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >hi ........my wonderfully sweet 18 year old daughter is newly engaged to
an
> >equally wondeful and fascinating young man.......both are quite the
epitome
> >of Asperger Syndrome......she is having more difficulty in dealing with
his
> >eccentricities then he seems to be with her quirks...they are deeply in
> >love and quite commited but there are a lot of stresses in there
> >relationship......is there an online group they could jon to speak to
other
> >couple wioth similar situations? The young man has a hard time with
> >understanding enuendos and metofors, sarcasms and things like that, He is
> >rigid in is thinking. She is very emotional. This mom is trying to help.
> >thanks, Barbie
> >

I see what  you mean about the whole sexuality thing...
My parents suspected for a long time that I was gay. They would have been okay
with it (as I previously said we're strong advocates for gay rights and think
it's awful how they're treated) but they were concerned that I wasn't
comfortable telling them. They also suspected that I might not have had any
sexuality at all. From a young age, I intuitively knew that I was probably
straight, but it wasn't confirmed until I had my first crush when I was almost
15. I was confused when kids at school made jokes about me possibly being a
gay. oooh I guess if you're not interested at age 10 or 11 you must be gay and
being a tomboy only confirms this. :p I wouldn't have questioned my sexual
orientation, let alone been uncomfortable with what it could have been, if I
hadn't gone to school.
What was also funny is I just didn't want to talk about this stuff with my
parents. Even after having been through several crushes they suspected that
there was a hormonal deficiency. What I find amusing is this... what would have
been the big deal if had I never had any crushes? After all, my secondary sex
characteristics were on time. Sometimes, i think life would be easier if I
didn't get crushes on people. Being that my parents didn't know what AS was,
nobody could explain to them that those with AS develop crushes several years
later and, occasionally, never. And their sexual identity isn't cut and dry b/c
they aren't swayed by peer pressure like everyone else is...

JE
>
> From: "Cade Bois" <cadere@...>
> Date: 2004/01/29 Thu PM 12:08:25 EST
> To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: What do you think about this.. ?
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Larry, for your words...
"It is not the camera but the vision of the person behind it."
They have given me encouragement and have lessened my fears
of self-consciousness about not knowing enough about the craft.
Sometimes, great art that speaks to souls isn't measured in f-stops.

Namaste'
Rhonda



*********************************

Re: Careers

No

It is not the camera but the vision of the person behind it.

Of course it does help having something that can do justice to the
vision. I
am dyspraxic and clumsy, but then so is David Bailey

Larry

--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Arnold" <larry@l...>
wrote:
> Fair enough. I am just trying to be a little even handed and not
> altogether judgemental.

I don't think there's anything particularly judgemental about saying
that even when certain drugs work or seem to work, they don't *know*
if this "chemical imbalance" theory is correct *at all* as the reason
why they work.  It's thus far unproven, and there are other possible
explanations (several of them) that are withheld from patients so they
just say "You have a chemical imbalance, it's sort of like diabetes...
" etc.  When they know nothing of the sort.

Amanda

Fair enough. I am just trying to be a little even handed and not altogether
judgemental.

All drugs affect the nervos system if not the brain, and that includes
ventolin, and I would be a total hypocrite if I advised people not to take
that, even though it can sometimes cause harm if used in the wrong way.

Speed screwed my brother up and ended him up in a mental hospital, it was
not a safe recreational drug for him.

I worry a little that just because I have survived depression without
antidepressants and would not contemplate them now, that it is reasonable to
assume that everyone else can be like me.

Of course I wish they could but I have to try and see the otherside a little
and realise that with some people they are never going to listen anyway.

If a person wants to drink brake fluid, because they read that was the
latest autism cure, that is up to them, I am not really in much of a
position to stop that, no matter what I say about it.

Larry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: alfamanda [mailto:amanda@...]
> Sent: 30 January 2004 23:22
> To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: Medication
>
>
> --- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Arnold" <larry@l...>
> wrote:
>
>
> I honestly don't think a lot of those things "correct a chemical
> imbalance".  I don't think they know enough about the brain to make
> suppositions like that.
>
> Drugs affect the brain.  Sometimes they do things people like or
> prefer, whether they're pleasure drugs or prescribed drugs or whatever
> they are.
>
> If I'm having flashbacks I take something that could be construed as
> recreational or could be construed as psychotropic depending on how
> you look at it.  All I care about is that it has the desired effect --
> it prevents me from doing the harm that usually comes to me during
> those times and it makes the flashbacks and adrenaline rushes get over
> quicker.
>
> I don't believe that flashbacks are caused by a "chemical imbalance",
> and I don't think this drug corrects a chemical imbalance.  It just
> keeps me from freaking out to the point where I lose it and do
> something destructive, and that's just an effect of the drug.  Being
> scared *causes* all the chemicals to move around in my body, not the
> other way around, and taking the drug simply makes me less scared.
> Doesn't "correct a chemical imbalance" or any of that fashionable but
> completely unproven psychiatric jargon I was fed for years.
>
> I wish more people would realize that even when they *like* the effect
> of whatever drug they're taking, it's *not* necessarily that it
> corrects some kind of pre-existing disease-like chemical imbalance,
> and they don't even *know* why some of these drugs work when or if
> they do work.  It's all guesswork and they're not as advanced in
> neuroscience as they pretend to their patients.
>
> Amanda
>
>
> ____________________________

--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Arnold" <larry@l...>
wrote:

> I suppose however I am talking about Autism not ADHD where possibly
> I concede that Ritalin might help supposing of course that it is a
> chemical imbalance.

I honestly don't think a lot of those things "correct a chemical
imbalance".  I don't think they know enough about the brain to make
suppositions like that.

Drugs affect the brain.  Sometimes they do things people like or
prefer, whether they're pleasure drugs or prescribed drugs or whatever
they are.

If I'm having flashbacks I take something that could be construed as
recreational or could be construed as psychotropic depending on how
you look at it.  All I care about is that it has the desired effect --
it prevents me from doing the harm that usually comes to me during
those times and it makes the flashbacks and adrenaline rushes get over
quicker.

I don't believe that flashbacks are caused by a "chemical imbalance",
and I don't think this drug corrects a chemical imbalance.  It just
keeps me from freaking out to the point where I lose it and do
something destructive, and that's just an effect of the drug.  Being
scared *causes* all the chemicals to move around in my body, not the
other way around, and taking the drug simply makes me less scared.
Doesn't "correct a chemical imbalance" or any of that fashionable but
completely unproven psychiatric jargon I was fed for years.

I wish more people would realize that even when they *like* the effect
of whatever drug they're taking, it's *not* necessarily that it
corrects some kind of pre-existing disease-like chemical imbalance,
and they don't even *know* why some of these drugs work when or if
they do work.  It's all guesswork and they're not as advanced in
neuroscience as they pretend to their patients.

Amanda

And I want the alcohol but it still gives me a hangover,

I suppose however I am talking about Autism not ADHD where possibly I
concede that Ritalin might help supposing of course that it is a chemical
imbalance.

Actually I tend to avoid pain killers for the most part as well even though
I have pain.

I suppose it is a matter of individual philosophy and my way is my way.

Why then do I have the occasional drink, because it gives me a temporary
lift, but I still know where the reality is.

I know one thing , that you and I are poles apart in our outlook on the word
and that is never going to change.

Not everyone can be like me, I am what I am for complex reasons, because I
have seen what I have seen, and known what I have known, and I suppose that
is no different for you either.

I live in my world no-one elses.

Ultimately alone. Donne and his Islands notwithstanding

Larry (wishing it were all a dream)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gareeth [mailto:Gareeth@...]
> Sent: 30 January 2004 22:36
> To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Medication
>
>
>
> In this case I assume he wanted the med for his ADD and to me it
> seems when
> a problem gets to the point you feel you need to remediate it you explore
> options which for ADD does include meds.
>
> As for to be social or not I wouldn't take a medication to specifically
> improve that. I did take a microdose of luvox technically for
> social anxiety
> for a few years while doing courses at university. The reasoning
> was similar
> in that I had reached a point where this symptom was a significant barrier
> to the goals I hoped to achieve. PLus it had a second useful
> effect in that
> at the dose I was taking it at it was specifically for an autism related
> symptom so if I had an emergency and my meds were listed autism would come
> up right away and my doctor liked that feature enough to continue
> prescribing it ,with my taking it being optional, after my life no longer
> required so many social interactions.
>
> I have been on ritalin too but not for ADD. Because my depressions are not
> treatable by conventional means they tried using it for it's stimulant
> properties. This was based on the simple premise which I totally
> agree with
> and had seen in me that I was most likely to get out of a depression if I
> maintained a farily high level of activity and that my depressions became
> more dangerous at the point where I just couldn't get myself to
> move etc...
> I would say it was probably effective at the very least of lessening the
> severity of my depression and speeding up the recovery althoug
> that one was
> so very severe it is hard to be sure.
>
> I use if something is preventing me from attaining a goal for most med
> decsions. I live with very bad pain due to a degenerative
> disorder. It jsut
> is not possible given I will need my liver for another 50 years or so to
> take pain killers as often as I have severe pain. I would already have had
> to move up to way more powerful and addictive pain control meds so I only
> take them if I have something to do that I would not be able to
> do with the
> level of pain I am having and if not doing that thing would have an
> undesirable consequence.
>
> Gareeth
>
>

Larry Arnold wrote:
> But why ? but why
>
> Autism is not neuro chemical it is the way we are and if I admit a
> weakness
> it is for alcohol
>
In this case I assume he wanted the med for his ADD and to me it seems when
a problem gets to the point you feel you need to remediate it you explore
options which for ADD does include meds.

As for to be social or not I wouldn't take a medication to specifically
improve that. I did take a microdose of luvox technically for social anxiety
for a few years while doing courses at university. The reasoning was similar
in that I had reached a point where this symptom was a significant barrier
to the goals I hoped to achieve. PLus it had a second useful effect in that
at the dose I was taking it at it was specifically for an autism related
symptom so if I had an emergency and my meds were listed autism would come
up right away and my doctor liked that feature enough to continue
prescribing it ,with my taking it being optional, after my life no longer
required so many social interactions.

I have been on ritalin too but not for ADD. Because my depressions are not
treatable by conventional means they tried using it for it's stimulant
properties. This was based on the simple premise which I totally agree with
and had seen in me that I was most likely to get out of a depression if I
maintained a farily high level of activity and that my depressions became
more dangerous at the point where I just couldn't get myself to move etc...
I would say it was probably effective at the very least of lessening the
severity of my depression and speeding up the recovery althoug that one was
so very severe it is hard to be sure.

I use if something is preventing me from attaining a goal for most med
decsions. I live with very bad pain due to a degenerative disorder. It jsut
is not possible given I will need my liver for another 50 years or so to
take pain killers as often as I have severe pain. I would already have had
to move up to way more powerful and addictive pain control meds so I only
take them if I have something to do that I would not be able to do with the
level of pain I am having and if not doing that thing would have an
undesirable consequence.

Gareeth

No

It is not the camera but the vision of the person behind it.

Of course it does help having something that can do justice to the vision. I
am dyspraxic and clumsy, but then so is David Bailey

Larry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rhonda [mailto:rj_fremenyoung@...]
> Sent: 30 January 2004 15:45
> To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: Careers
>
>
> Hi, Scott!
>
> Photography is just a hobby with me, too.
> I just thought I'd *try* to make it a career.
> I'm not sure I can do it, but I don't know
> what else to try.
>
> I've never used a digital camera before.
> Are they harder to use?
>
> Rhonda
>
>
>

But why ? but why

Autism is not neuro chemical it is the way we are and if I admit a weakness
it is for alcohol

Why why why why why. We are we, and they are them and why should we take
from them that we do not want.

Social life to hell with it.

I have my own inner life and I realise that I am not social, I can do it up
to a point but to take a typical break time at college for an example.

I sit where I sit in the same place because it is more important to me where
I sit and what I see in front of my eyes than who I talk to, and if people
whom I am comfortable talking to move somewhere else and as a consequence I
am unable to engage them in conversation then my being where I am is of more
importance.

A carreer on the other hand would be okay, but not the social life please.

Larry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike [mailto:cromulnt@...]
> Sent: 30 January 2004 20:15
> To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Medication
>
>
> I'm really starting to think that I might need medication, like the
> kind that people with ADD would take, Ritalin or something.  I just
> feel like I've been completely lacking any type of drive or
> motivation, and I can't pay attention to anyone or anything for very
> long, or focus on two things at once.  I'm also very addicted to the
> internet and I rarely actually do anything worthwhile on there.  I
> feel like if I don't do someting about there's no way I'm gonna be
> able to do well in school, have a decent social life, or pursue a
> career.  Is this really the right way to go?
>
>
>

Maurice I do not particularly like being accused of ruling class traits when
I live in a Council flat which is scheduled for demolition with little
control over the proceedings

In my posting to you before I was merely concerned about the situation of
Luke Jackson whom I percieved that you were unjustly condemning being
unaware of his current situation.

I often find myself defending the rights of people whose opinions I do not
agree with, but equally that does not stop me from disagreeing with there
opinions.

I do what I can, but I try not to waste energy and get myself too upset
combatting things I am in no position or ill suited to change.

Fairness is a very individual concept and not one that has an objective
quality to it, is it fair for the wildebeeste to be eaten by the lion ?

It is not fair to one person that they cannot play there stereo at full
volume at 3 in the morning when they work nights, but to there neighbour it
is not fair that they should have to live next door to someone who wants to
work nights and cannot keep quiet during the time when everyone else sleeps
if you get what I am saying.

Neither you nor I have a universal rectitude in our position although I know
I am a very opinionated person, that is something I have to accept about
others with no individual hard feeling about it.

Larry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: maurice frank [mailto:aspieknee@...]
> Sent: 30 January 2004 16:08
> To: AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [AS-and-Proud-of-it] Re: policy and reality
>
>
>
>
> Larry, if you have this hard nosed an awareness of unjust realities
> of power, then it's logical for you not to have the pro-ruling class
> trait of ever saying that any topic concerned with personal fairness
> should not be written about, or that this is ever "no place for it."
> You would be like me in always siding with personal fairness against
> all other things on unconditionally every issue that ever exists.
>
>
> ____________________________
>
> Is ANYONE really "normal"?
> Celebrate the AS difference!
> ____________________________
>
> To post, send message to AS-and-proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com
> To subscribe, send message to AS-and-proud-of-it-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> To unsubscribe, send message to
> AS-and-proud-of-it-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> To get a message to the list owner, send to
> AS-and-proud-of-it-owner@yahoogroups.com
> AS-and-proud-of-it home page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AS-and-proud-of-it


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--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "maurice frank"
<aspieknee@l...> wrote:

> Larry, if you have this hard nosed an awareness of unjust realities
> of power, then it's logical for you not to have the pro-ruling class
> trait of ever saying that any topic concerned with personal fairness
> should not be written about, or that this is ever "no place for it."
> You would be like me in always siding with personal fairness against
> all other things on unconditionally every issue that ever exists.

OR he might just have different ways of thinking about unjust
realities of power than you do, and not "ruling-class" ones either.

There are plenty of places where certain discussions are off-topic,
and it has nothing to do with the ruling classes.  I think you're
taking a fairly extreme view and saying basically, "If a person
believes THIS, then surely they must believe ALL THESE OTHER THINGS."

Amanda

I'm really starting to think that I might need medication, like the
kind that people with ADD would take, Ritalin or something.  I just
feel like I've been completely lacking any type of drive or
motivation, and I can't pay attention to anyone or anything for very
long, or focus on two things at once.  I'm also very addicted to the
internet and I rarely actually do anything worthwhile on there.  I
feel like if I don't do someting about there's no way I'm gonna be
able to do well in school, have a decent social life, or pursue a
career.  Is this really the right way to go?

Anymore meanings of "hell"?


--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "dacl@i..." <dacl@i...>
wrote:
> In German it means 'bright' as in lighting.
> David NZ
>
> ojmalm wrote:
> >
> > Yes it is! I actually think the name really means rock or slab or
> > something like that. Funny enough, "hell" also means "luck" in
> > Norwegian!
> >
> > --- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "Stan's Computer"
> > <vze2txm3@v...> wrote:
> > > On 29 Jan 2004 ojmalm wrote:
> > >
> > > > ... I live in a rural town in central Norway where a
> > > > man who doesn't have a girlfriend or is married by age 20 is
> > either
> > > > gay or retarded...
> > >
> > > now i know where to go if i have to move!
> > >
> > > next time someone tells me to go to Hell, i'll look at the map,
> > > see that Hell is a rural town near Trondheim, and realize the
> > > person giving me that advise only wishes me the best.
> > > (:
> >
> > ____________________________
> >
> > Is ANYONE really "normal"?
> > Celebrate the AS difference!
> > ____________________________
> >
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--- In AS-and-Proud-of-it@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Arnold"
<larry@l...> wrote:
> What I try and convinve people who believe in the sovereignty of
law and
> believe that just because a law exists on paper they can have it
enforced is
> that the reality is power and the enforcement of law through the
courts is
> the property of an elite class who have the leisure and money to
pursue it.
> I don't think lawyers come any cheaper in the US than they do over
here.
>
> What good is a law if it is not enforced?
>
> My only ultimate right when attacked by someone who has not regard
for the
> law of assualt is self defence and to hope that I have superior
strenght, -
> and that  is not the way it should be, but that is the way it is.
And if I
> use too much force, then the law will prosecute me.
>
> In pursuing my complaint against the local mental helth service
helpline,
> who arbitrarily put the phone down on me I have first to establish
I am not
> a crazy ranting person with no credibility. But who but a crazy
ranting
> person would phone there help line in the first place, catch 22.
>
> Larry


Larry, if you have this hard nosed an awareness of unjust realities
of power, then it's logical for you not to have the pro-ruling class
trait of ever saying that any topic concerned with personal fairness
should not be written about, or that this is ever "no place for it."
You would be like me in always siding with personal fairness against
all other things on unconditionally every issue that ever exists.