Hey buffs. I've found the text on this in my search engine at aastuff.com
however, none of the sites post the original date it was first published. I've
only found dates when it was reprinted in Wally Paton's book of the same title.
I believe it was a little booklet or pamphlet like "sharing", "the guidance of
God", etc. I would like to find the actual date it was first printed.

Thank you in advance.

I have a mid-forties vintage A.A. book with a poem inscribed in the
front and I am curious about the source of the poem.  It goes:

We thank Thee our Father
for the privilege of meeting
again with men and women
who have a common problem
and help us to realize that
thru Thine help can we
hope to achieve understanding
of a better way of life
thru Jesus Christ

The name written on the opposite page is Red Settles.

I would appreciate any information on either the poem or the person.

Tommy H in Baton Rouge

GRAPEVINE ARTICLE:

http://www.aagrapevine.org/da/article.php?id=39321&tb=3ZGE9cSUzQWp1bHkrMTk3NyZwZ\
z01

AA Grapevine - July 1977 Vol. 34 No. 2
Word-worriers

Members of our Fellowship are prone to spend hours of meeting time debating the
precise meaning of words in the Steps and Traditions.
When co-founder Bill W. was asked why he said "defects of character" in Step Six
and "shortcomings" in Step Seven, he replied: "I just didn't want to use the
same word twice."

AAHL MESSAGE 2559:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/2559

* From the 1968 General Service Conference "Ask It Basket"
Question: What is the difference between "Character Defects" and "Shortcomings"?
Answer: A Staff Member said that she asked this question of Bill some years ago.
Quite simply, he said he didn't want to use the same word twice. He intended the
two terms to mean the same thing.

* From the 1977 General Service Conference "Ask It Basket"
Question: Could we republish the quotation from Bill W concerning the
difference, or lack of difference, between "defects" and "shortcomings" in the
Steps?
Answer: Some years ago, we received many letters asking the difference between
these terms. Bill said he did not want to use the same word twice.

[Both of the GSC documents are available on the web]

* Also contains a note from 'merton' that a letter was discovered in the GSO
archives written by Bill - "As if by magic the computer revealed a letter by
Bill saying that the meaning was intended to be synonomous and that the
different words were merely semantic for literary flow"

- - - -

From: "bxdennis" <bxdennis@...>
(bxdennis at verizon.net)

I asked this question of Frank M., GSO Archivist,
in the early '90's and received a written reply
that is very similar to what you have written
here, Lee. That Bill had said that he simply
wanted to use another word and not alter the
meaning.

Frank said that the question was posed in an
"Ask It Basket" session at one of the General
Service Conferences. Frank told me that it
was a regular feature of Conferences while
Bill was alive and attending to allow conference
delegates to pose questions for Bill to answer.

I might also mention that in the book,
Alcoholics Anonymous, Chapter 6, Into Action
(p. 76), the seventh step prayer includes the
sentence: "I pray that you now remove from me
every single defect of character" which was
proof enough for me that shortcomings were the
same as defects of character. But some doubters
around here needed Bill's answer and I was
delighted to get the archival information.

Sorry but my files are not accessible to me
right now to search for the letter but perhaps
someone has a record of the Ask-It Basket Q & A.

Dennis M.

- - - -

From: "planternva2000" <james.scarpine@...>
(james.scarpine at verizon.net)

From page 22 of "A New Pair of Glasses":

<<....and there've been a million hours spent on
"What's the difference between 'shortcomings'
and 'defects of character'?" There's supposed to
be a difference! I asked Bill, and he said,
"I don't know, I think I didn't want to end
two lines right next to each other with the
same words. They mean the same thing." So that's
going to knock a lot of arguments out, isn't it?>>

Jim S.

- - - -

From: "kurtzern" <kurtzern@...>
(kurtzern at umich.edu)

I recall seeing this expression in several of
Bill's letters when I examined them back in the
1970s. I am pretty sure there are precise notes
in Not-God.  Bill was writing to people who
inquired about the apparent distinction, often
proposing some very imaginative interpretations.
I understand that the archives are in the
process of digitizing all that material, so a
query to the archivist may be helpful.

ernie kurtz

Anyone interested in writing for a 2-man play?
Bill  W. meets a man from the future who has
magically been sent via time machine to  him
prior to his interaction with Ebby, and the
fellow is a big fan of Bill  W's and is
startled to see Bill W at his sickest, and the
things that Bill thought he still had power over
and the things he thought he could still manage.
The Stranger actually will work with Bill about
the symptoms and then work with him about the
solution -- the solution from the big Book.

It will be a comedy -- no budget -- a 2-man
play done to raise  money for homeless addicts
and alcoholics in the Long Beach area. A
non-fellowship play -- just a way to carry the
message while raising money. It  will be
performed by 2 actors already chosen.

Email me at
<egojames007@...> (egojames007 at aol.com)
if you're interested in  writing scenes.

From Kimball Rowe and Anders (Gothenburg, Sweden)

Responding to the original message from Jon Markle
<serenitylodge@...> (serenitylodge at mac.com)
which said "back then .... any labels used in AA
literature meant something very different than
they do, clinically, today .... Notwithstanding
there were problems of a mental and emotional
nature, we need to be very careful when discussing
such labels" in terms of modern diagnostic terms.

"Kimball ROWE" <roweke@...> (roweke at msn.com)
made this comment:

Your observation and blanket statement would
apply not only to diagnostic terminolgy (pre-DSM)
and clinical settings, but would also apply to
every term throughout the Big Book of Alcoholics
Anonymous .... when it comes to emotional and
mental disorders, it would be wise to stick with
just those described by the Big Book itself and
not apply this generation's classification
systems on the environment of the 30s.

- - - -

Additional comments from: "serenityodaat"
<agbystrom@...> (agbystrom at gmail.com)

Hi group!

Could it not be that some of the "grave
emotional and mental disorders" that the
begining of chapter 5 talks about comes from
the alcoholics real underlying problem - the
hard core egoic entity? "The self will run riot"
talked about later in the book.

When I came to AA alot of people laughed when
those lines from chapter 5 were read at the
begining of the meeting. I never understood why
they did that. Until I had written my own 4th
step and started on my amends process ... Then
I started to laugh too.

I think those lines are connected to the
"bedevilments" found in chapter 4, page 52:
"We were having trouble with personal
relationships, we couldn't control our
emotional natures, we were a prey to
misery and depression, we couldn't make a
living, we had a feeling of uselessness, we
were full of fear, we were unhappy, we couldn't
seem to be of real help to other people." This
is why I drank, and kept drinking beyond the
point when I didn't wanna drink any more. My
mind told me that alcohol was a legitimate
solution to those bedevilments, and it felt
true too. Now if that isn't grave emotional
and mental disorder, I dont know what is!

Of course, of course, there are a lot of other
disorders that an alcoholic can suffer from,
but just as Dr. Tiebout reported in his articles
that once his patients had been subjected to
the AA program, i.e. their alcoholism was
treated, they were avaliable to his therapy.

When I came to AA i had suffered from depression,
paranoia and panic attacks for years, for as
long as I can remember. I have been free of
those for years now.

Thats my take on it =)

Anders
Gothenburg, Sweden

AA, while not a Christian organization, is
based on liberal Christian thought, as was
popularly available to our founders.

(Analogy: I don't live in a Frank Lloyd Wright
house, but important elements of its design
could be attributed to the style he developed)

I'm sometimes amused by certain people,
Christian and non-Christian, with their
objections to certain AA principals because
of how those principals were originated.

I like the way AA has developed since the
early days, with an emphasis on fellowship.
Imagine if Bill and Bob had chosen a more
mystical spiritual direction with an emphasis
on a more monastic or meditative way of life
for alcoholics!

Their chosen theological strain - Shoemaker
as a great example - of the active spiritual
life saved me...

Maybe that's why Bill W. said "be quick to see
where religious people are right, make use of
what they offer."

-k.

- - - -

--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, jenny andrews <jennylaurie1@...> wrote:
>
> Episcopalian minister and Oxford Grouper Sam Shoemaker compared AA to
Christianity in "Those 12 Steps as I understand them" (Grapevine, January 1964).
"His (Shoemaker's) teaching provided most of the principles embodied in our 12
Steps..." (Grapevine, March 1973). Then there was Fulton Oursler, journalist and
novelist ("The Greatest Story Ever Told"). Of the Bible he wrote, "In this one
book (actually 66 books) are the two most interesting personalities in the whole
world - God and yourself. The Bible is the story of God and man (sic), a love
story in which you and I must write our own ending, our unfinished autobiography
of the creature and the Creator." And, "Many of us crucify ourselves between two
thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future."  Oursler was in London to
interview the archbishop of Canterbury when his wife, Grace O, convened the
first known meeting of AA in Britain in her room at the swanky Dorchester Hotel,
in Park Lane on March 31, 1947.
>
> But let's not forget that from early days, despite its genesis in first
century Christianity, AA was reaching out to those of other faiths or no faith:
"By personal religious affiliation we include Catholics, Protestants, Jews,
Hindus and a sprinkling of Moslems and Buddhists..." (Foreword to Big Book
second edition, 1955).
>
> Laurie A.
>
> - - - -
>
> From: Baileygc23@... (Baileygc23 at aol.com)
>
> People keep trying to tie AA to religion, but AA says there is no dogma. Bill
W warned that others are sensitive to aggression  in the name of spirituality.
>
> As Bill W. said, "A new comer may ask, certainly there is something I must
believe or do."
>
> Bill added, " We cheerfully reply that in AA there are no musts."
> Of course, our steps are only suggestions. There is  one imperative, Bill W
said, "Particularly was it imperative  to work with others."  But like
everything else he wrote in the big book,  that was only a suggested imperative.
>
> - - - -
>
> Original message from ArtSheehan@...
> (ArtSheehan at msn.com)
>
> There is a phenomenon in AA where a number
> of members after sobering up engage in
> reading religious material and/or return
> to church services and get the notion that
> clergy members and religions have principles
> that are "a lot like AA" when it is very
> much the other way around. In terms of
> primacy, AA's so-called "12 step approach"
> (which began as a "6 step approach")
>
>  [see http://hindsfoot.org/steps6.html]
>
> was likely spiritually in sync with Harry
> Emerson Fosdick and other influential
> Christian clergy members (such as Sam
> Shoemaker) rather than the other way
> around ....
>

I was a student nurse in Missoula, Montana
1945 to 1948.  Our hospital always admitted
drunks and gave them paraldehyde.

I remember Tom Kelly and Larry Lynch who were
admitted regularly to the wards.  Tom K was a
local bum but something happened to him after
one of his discharges from the hospital. I
never knew what happened to Larry.

After that we would see Tom K. all dressed
up with a book under his arm going to visit
different patients in private room. I now
believe that Tom K discovered Alcoholics
Anonymous and was making 12 step calls.

I didn't recall this and put it together
until I myself found Sobriety in AA in 1973.

Just thought I would share this little bit
of history.

Cecilia Archer

I'm not sure if it's authoritative, but it's
mentioned in the preface of "Drop The Rock"
by Bill P.

-- Al

- - - -

From: John Barton <jax760@...>
(jax760 at yahoo.com)

I've never seen that in print. Joe & Charlie
quote Nell Wing as having said that so maybe
GTHBT should be checked?

Regards

- - - -

--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,
"Lee Carroll" <FriendLeeCPA@...> wrote:
>
> I thought I had seen, years ago, somewhere in
> print, an alleged comment by Bill W. that when
> asked what was the difference between character
> defects and shortcomings between step 6 and 7,
> that he replied "I didn't mean any difference,
> I just didn't want to repeat myself using the
> same word twice, I didn't think that was good
> writing," or something to that effect.
>
> I could have sworn I read it somewhere, but
> now I can't find it in "As Bill Sees It" or
> "AA Comes of Age" or "Pass It On."
>
> Can anybody give me any documentation for
> that statement that Bill W. is supposed to
> have made? A book and a page number?
>
> Lee Carroll, CPA
>
> (805) 938-1981
>

"We Were Powerless: Addiction, the Will, and
the Evangelical Roots of the Twelve Steps"

By John Blevins
Assistant Professor of Pastoral Care
Emory University, Atlanta, Georgia
<jblevin@...>
(john.blevins at emory.edu)

September 15, 2009

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/scienceenvironment/1789/we_were_powerl\
ess:_addiction,_the_will,_and_the_evangelical_roots_of_the_twelve_steps


There are some things in this article that
seem worthy of comment.

LD Pierce
aabibliography.com

Episcopalian minister and Oxford Grouper Sam Shoemaker compared AA to
Christianity in "Those 12 Steps as I understand them" (Grapevine, January 1964).
"His (Shoemaker's) teaching provided most of the principles embodied in our 12
Steps..." (Grapevine, March 1973). Then there was Fulton Oursler, journalist and
novelist ("The Greatest Story Ever Told"). Of the Bible he wrote, "In this one
book (actually 66 books) are the two most interesting personalities in the whole
world - God and yourself. The Bible is the story of God and man (sic), a love
story in which you and I must write our own ending, our unfinished autobiography
of the creature and the Creator." And, "Many of us crucify ourselves between two
thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future."  Oursler was in London to
interview the archbishop of Canterbury when his wife, Grace O, convened the
first known meeting of AA in Britain in her room at the swanky Dorchester Hotel,
in Park Lane on March 31, 1947.

But let's not forget that from early days, despite its genesis in first century
Christianity, AA was reaching out to those of other faiths or no faith: "By
personal religious affiliation we include Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Hindus
and a sprinkling of Moslems and Buddhists..." (Foreword to Big Book second
edition, 1955).

Laurie A.

- - - -

From: Baileygc23@... (Baileygc23 at aol.com)

People keep trying to tie AA to religion, but AA says there is no dogma. Bill W
warned that others are sensitive to aggression  in the name of spirituality.

As Bill W. said, "A new comer may ask, certainly there is something I must
believe or do."

Bill added, " We cheerfully reply that in AA there are no musts."
Of course, our steps are only suggestions. There is  one imperative, Bill W
said, "Particularly was it imperative  to work with others."  But like
everything else he wrote in the big book,  that was only a suggested imperative.

- - - -

Original message from ArtSheehan@...
(ArtSheehan at msn.com)

There is a phenomenon in AA where a number
of members after sobering up engage in
reading religious material and/or return
to church services and get the notion that
clergy members and religions have principles
that are "a lot like AA" when it is very
much the other way around. In terms of
primacy, AA's so-called "12 step approach"
(which began as a "6 step approach")

  [see http://hindsfoot.org/steps6.html]

was likely spiritually in sync with Harry
Emerson Fosdick and other influential
Christian clergy members (such as Sam
Shoemaker) rather than the other way
around ....

Psychiatric "labels" back then were not bandied about with such
abandonment as they are today.  In fact, there was little known about
such "diagnostic terms" back then.  Certainly, any labels used in AA
literature meant something very different than they do, clinically,
today.  So, even if there were such applications to Bill W, they would
not mean the same thing as they do today.  Notwithstanding there were
problems of a mental and emotional nature, we need to be very careful
when discussing such labels back that far . . . not just in AA, but in
all circumstances.  We do a great disservice to people when we try to
attach to them such labels.

History should deal only with facts, not suppositions or assumptions.

Jon Markle/MA
Retired Therapist & SA Counseling
Dual Diagnosis/COD speciality
HS Practitioner, Advisor & Case Consultations
Raleigh, NC

[my opinions are my own, obviously <GRIN> and this post may not be
copied, duplicated, referred to or otherwise used in any publication,
paper or electronic, or digital, for any reason by any person without
my written permission.]

On Sep 20, 2009, at 1:06 PM, glennccc wrote:

> That there was much more wrong with him, in
> other words, than just being an alcoholic?
> Some kind of psychiatric problem which competent
> psychiatrists had put a name on, where he had
> been officially diagnosed as being schizophrenic,
> manic depressive, a psychopath, or something
> else of that sort?

new Carl Jung book

September 20, 2009 The Holy Grail of the
Unconscious By SARA CORBET

really not directly AA related but might be
of interest to those in this group

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/magazine/20jung-t.html

LD Pierce
aabibliography.com

[Doug. B suggested that "Dr. Howard" was
Dr. James Wainwright Howard from Montclair,
New Jersey]

Message 4381 from "Doug B." <dougb@...>
Jun 14, 2007

Re: Some Notes on the AA Original Manuscript Up for Auction

Bill,

Thanks for your observations...my spine was tingling!

I found the following Dr's that might fit your question:

Dr James Wainwright Howard from Montclair, NJ
graduated P&S in 1919

Dr Charles Russell Witherspoon from Rochester, NY
graduated Uof P in 1898

No mention of a Dr. Bevoise [any spelling]) in NY,
NJ or CT in 1936

Doug B.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Message 4409 from "Old Bill" <schaberg@...>
posted by "Fiona Dodd" <fionadodd@...>
Jun 26, 2007

Jim Burwell's Copy of Original Manuscript

Given the current excitement surrounding the sale of the "Master Copy" of
the Original Manuscript, there was a request here for more information on
Jim Burwell's copy of the Original Manuscript and I will try to supply as
much detail about it below as possible.

My Lady Sara and I are the current owners of the Burwell copy of the
"Original Manuscript" -- one of the multilith copies of the proposed text of
the Big Book that were circulated in late 1938 and early 1939 for review and
comments ....

The book has been rebound twice. Once at some point in the past, Jim Burwell
had the book rebound with a uniform black cloth binding that had the title
"Alcoholics / Anonymous // Book No. 2. / of the / First Hundred Mimeographed
/ Copies" on the front cover in gilt lettering. By 1993, this second binding
was in need of replacement so an identical looking black cloth binding (with
exactly the same front cover title information) was created by Ron M. The
first black cloth binding has been separately preserved along with the
original endpapers from that binding ....

The unique features of this copy include ....

VERSO OF INDEX PAGE:

This originally blank page is filled with a wealth of historically important
information (written in blue ink by Jim) including ....
... a final major header: "Non Alcoholics Who Were So Helpful"
listing seven full names – Dorothy Snyder appearing in a different hand at
the end. NOTE: Dr. Howard is listed here as being from "(N.J. State Hosp)"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Message 4807 from "Arthur S" <ArtSheehan@...>
Jan 20, 2008

[AA Comes of Age]

On page 165: "Had we not better make a prepublication copy of the text and
some of the stories and try the book out on our own membership and on every
kind and class of person that has anything to do with drunks?"
On page 167: "One of them came from Dr. Howard, a well-known psychiatrist of
Montclair, New Jersey. He pointed out that the text of our book was too full
of the words "you" and "must." [... also ...] "To make this shift throughout
the text of the book would be a big job."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Message 5232 from John B <jax760@...>
Sep 22, 2008

Re: Some Notes on the AA Original Manuscript
Up for Auction

Dr. Bevoise is Herb Debevoise (Herb D) from
South Orange, New Jersey.

John B

- - - -

Bill Schaberg had written:

I noticed that the name of Doctor Howard was
just about everywhere in the manuscript. He
sure had a LOT to say about edits to our book.
In addition, two other doctors I have never
before heard referenced as contributors of
Big Book suggestions list (Dr. Witherspoon
& Dr. Bevoise [sp?]) are also found here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Messsage 5321 from "John Barton" <jax760@...>
posted by Glenn Chesnut <glennccc@...
Oct 25, 2008

AA in South Orange, New Jersey (2 of 3)
The History of Alcoholism and Alcoholics Anonymous
in South Orange, New Jersey
Section 2 (of 3)

During an early Fall meeting of the trustees, Frank Amos popped up with the idea
that one of his friends -- Gene Exman -- one of the religious editors of Harpers
Magazine, might be interested in the book project. (Bill went to meet Exman, who
was quite pleased with what Bill had written and said he could probably get an
advance of $1,500 "If it could help things along." This would be deducted from
the sale of the books when finished. Bill was uneasy with the thought that an
outsider might end up in control of the group's major asset. He reported the
offer to the trustees and they were very happy, but they could not understand
Bill's conclusion and dismay. They pointed out authors very seldom publish their
own works, a well-known fact. The meeting ended with no conclusion. Hank
Parkhurst asked Bill, "Why do we bother with those trustees, they have not
raised a cent and they are not going to, either. Let's put this proposed book on
a business basis and form a stock company. We'll sell shares to our own folks."
Still, the trustees were skeptical, so Bill went back to see Exman who agreed
the membership should print its own book. The New York Group and Dr. Bob agreed
but the rest of the Akron Group was skeptical.

Hank worked out a prospectus for the new publishing company, which they called
"The 100 Men Corporation." They would offer 600 shares for sale at $25 par value
[$25 for each share]. Hank went down to a stationary store, bought blank stock
certificates, typed in his full name, followed by the title "President." The
name of the publishing company was "Works Publishing Co.," but the corporation
was not registered until several years later. Hank and Bill were each to keep
200 shares for their work on the book, the balance of the 200 shares would be
sold for $25 per share. This would raise the $5,000 needed to publish the book.
Hank button-holed every member in New York, persuading and brow beating them
one-by-one, while Bill followed him around trying to smooth things over, but
with all their expertise they still could not sell the certificates.

Then Hank had another idea: Why not get a magazine to do an article about the
book and the group? Dr. Silkworth was renting a house from the publisher-owner
of the Reader's Digest, a Mr. Williams. Every month Dr. Silkworth sent his rent
to Mr. Walters, who was president of the magazine -- which had a circulation of
12 million readers at that time. So Bill and Hank prevailed upon Dr. Silkworth
to send copies of the first two chapters of the Big Book to Walters with a
recommendation of the new organization and its founders. That is how they got in
touch with Kenneth Payne, the managing editor of the Reader's Digest. So Bill
and Hank sped off to see Payne, who seemed quite interested -- and assured them
the magazine would want to run an article when the book was ready to hit the
streets.

Now they had some real ammunition to drum up support for the book, something to
really sink their teeth into. Now the former doubters began to sign up -- but
nearly everyone was broke, so they offered the stock on the installment plan, $5
a month for five months. Most could only afford a single share. When the
trustees were informed of the good luck, they signed up, too. Dr. Silkworth and
Dr. Tiebout pitched in, and a few of Bill's Wall Street friends chipped in a
little. Charles Towns loaned them $2,500. But he would not buy stock, he wanted
a note for security! Eventually, the 200 shares were sold. Finally, the
subscribers felt they would eventually get their money back, so everyone got
behind the deal. Bill began writing the remainder of the book, making notes on
legal pads, and dictating to Ruth Hock in the little office room 601 at 17
William Street.

With the writing of the Chapter to the Agnostic and How it Works the fight in
New York was on. Bill favored writing a spiritual book that was filled with
references to God. Hank Parkhurst led the fight along with another new comer
named Jimmy Burwell, to keep the book psychological in nature and no religion.
Fitz and the Akron members also favored a spiritual book. The fight almost broke
up the little fledging fellowship and Bill eventually compromised including such
expressions as "higher power" and God "as we understood him" in the book.
Several of the steps were re-written in the process. The original version of the
Twelve Steps is shown below:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become
unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that God could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our wills and our lives over to the care and
direction of God.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of
our wrongs.
6. Were entirely willing that God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly on our knees asked Him to remove these shortcomings - holding back
nothing.
8. Made a complete list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make
amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so
would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly
admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our contact with God,
praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual experience as the result of this course of action, we
tried to carry this message to others, especially alcoholics, and to practice
these principles in all our affairs.

In January of 1939 the first draft of the Big Book was complete. Four hundred
multilith copies were produced and distributed to the shareholders and
interested parties for review. One of those to review the book was reportedly
the "Chief Psychiatrist of NJ" "Dr. Howard" from Montclair, New Jersey who
suggested softening the tone of the book to make it appear more suggestive. Dr.
"Howard" is considered to be an alias and may have actually been Dr. Marcus A.
Curry, Chief at the NJ State Asylum for the Insane at Greystone Park during the
years 1936-40.

In April of 1939 the Big Book is published with the name "Alcoholics Anonymous"
Bill had credited a New York member (and psychiatric patient) Joe W with the
name.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Message 5833 from <jax760@...>
Jun 26, 2009

Re: Big Book pg 163 who is the AA member, the 2 psychiatrists, and the
hospitals?

Dr. "Howard" is thought to be an alias. He may have been Dr. Marcus Curry, head
of Greystone in 1939.

--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com,
"Lee Carroll" <FriendLeeCPA@...> wrote:
>
> The AA member was Hank Parkhurst - he was living in Montclair NJ at the time.
>
> Prominent psychiatrist was Dr Howard of Montclair, NJ
>
> Second psychiatrist was Dr Russell E. Blaisdell, Rockland State Hospital
> near Orangeburg NY.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Jared L. suggested that "Dr. Howard" might
have been Dr. Howard W. S. Potter]

Message 5834 from Jared L. <jlobdell54@...>

Re: Big Book pg 163 who is the AA member, the
2 psychiatrists, and the hospitals?

 Marcus Curry would fit for "Chief Psychiatrist of the State of NJ" -- more or
less -- but there's the possibility (given the "Dr. Howard") that it might be
Dr. Howard W. S. Potter (1892-1984), of New York (Letchworth Village), a
native-born Jerseyan (Elizabeth, I think) -- tho' I don't know where he was
living in 1939. Perhaps someone could check the MS of Howard Potter's
reminiscences in the Columbia Medical Library.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Message 3117 from <mertonmm3@...>
Jan 29, 2006

Re: The Dr. Howard/Hank P. manuscript

Hi Rick,

As Stated in my original post this appears to be the draft edited by
Hank P. and Dr. Howard. It does not appear to be anything like a draft
that a publisher could work from and if you look closely at the 4
pages from the Sotheby's Catelog I think you will agree. Its quite
obviously an intermediate sort of draft as it doesn't remotely agree
with the finished product. Also as stated previously there are two
handwritten references to Dr. Howard and most of the handwriting is
Hank P.'s in my opinion. I disagee with the Sotheby assertion that
this is the final copy that went to Cornwall Press. This document is
far more significant historically. I am quite cautious with such an
assertion as their experts are quite meticulous.

Please look to what's available facimilewise rather than what
secondhand reporters tell us.

All the best!!

-merton

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Message 3119 from <mertonmm3@...>
Jan 29, 2006

Re: Printer's Copy and Dr. Howard

The name Curry is extremely interesting as it was one of names
mentioned by Bill and Hank during their 2 week stock redemption
debate, as a creditor of Henry G. Parkhurst, Inc. (unincorporated in
reality)(the name Honor Dealers was not used in this discussion, Hank'
contention was that he was principally liable as the company bore his
namesake so he owned the furniture. Bill pointed out that as treasurer, an
officer, he was equally liable). One of the other creditors was Sinclair Oil.

As I stated originally after reviewing the 4 pages from the Sotheby's
catelog its my very stong opinion that this wasn't a "publisher's
draft" but rather an intermittent draft and is mostly in Hank P's and
very likely the mysterious Dr. Howard's hand. The one page in Bill's
hand was written many years after publication. Hopefully more people
can view the photo fascimiles from the catelog to understand my point.
If there's anyone living in the Essex or Morris County area's please
check the various city directories for Dr. Marcus A. Curry.

Thank you jlobdell for this possible lead into identifying the elusive
Dr. Howard. Greystone Park yielded several very early members
including Morgan R., from Glen Ridge, who spoke on the radio about AA.
Source - documents in GSO Archives 1939-40 for unpublished yet Black
Sheep manuscript)

All the Best!!!

-merton

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[General background on the writing of the Big Book]

Message 3284 from <ArtSheehan@...>
Mar 22, 2006

"Pass It On" (page 200) ... states "Bill wrote at
least ten of the opening chapters of the book; there is some reason to
believe that "To Employers" may have been written by Hank."

... Mitchell K ... relayed information he received through testimonial from Ruth
Hock (a first person observer).

Merton M, a member of this forum, is researching a comprehensive
history of AA in New Jersey (which was started by Hank P). Merton also
attributes authorship of "To Employers" to Hank P based on his
research (and he is a bit of a stickler for accurate details) ....
The idea that Bill only wrote the first paragraph of "To Employers" in
no way detracts from or diminishes his role in the overall production
of the Big Book. Bill's methodology for writing the Big Book chapters
was for him to develop an outline of the chapters on a yellow legal
pad and then later dictate narrative details to Ruth Hock to type up
drafts.

The drafts were then presented to NY, Akron and Cleveland members for
editing and changes ....

The Big Book is unique in that it is the only literary work in AA
where everyone who was a member at the time (1938-1939) had an
opportunity to directly contribute to shaping both the wording and
style of the book. This also included non-alcoholic friends of AA:

1. Dr Silkworth wrote a letter of support for AA for use in
fundraising for the book. The letter, and additional narrative from Dr
Silkworth, were incorporated into the chapter "The Doctor's Opinion."

2. 28 members submitted their stories for the book. These stories,
then and today, make up a substantial and very important portion of
the Big Book (notwithstanding the tiresome "first 164 pages" mantra
that circulates within AA).

3. Jim B (whose story is "Vicious Cycle") suggested the phrases "God
as we understand Him" and "Power greater than ourselves" be added to
the Steps and basic text.

4. A psychiatrist "Dr Howard" (an alias) caused the whole tone of the
book to be changed from "must" to "should" or "ought."

5. Tom Uzzell, a friend of Hank P, an editor at Collier's and a member
of the NYU faculty, edited the manuscript which was variously
estimated as 600-800 pages (including personal stories). Uzzell
reduced it to approximately 400 pages. Most cuts came from the
personal stories, which had also been edited by Jim S of Akron and
Bill W and Hank P in NY.

The Big Book is a product of informed group conscience and, as a
consequence, it turned out to be a very remarkable product. By his own
admission, Bill wrote that his role eventually changed from one of
primary author to umpire.

Cheers

Arthur

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Message 4377 from "schaberg43" <schaberg@...>
Jun 12, 2007

I went down to Sotheby's today to take a long look at the Original
Manuscript copy that they will be auctioning off on Thursday, June
21st. This is the OM copy where Hank, Ruth, Bill, and others
recorded ALL of the suggestions that they received for edits before
actually printing the first edition of the Big Book. It is an
important historical document on many levels, but most importantly,
I think, because it shows who made some of the suggestions and also
allows you to see the suggestions that our founders did NOT take
when editing the Big Book.

NOTE: I was privileged with a private viewing of this copy of the
Original Manuscript because I had assisted the cataloger in his
write up of the history of the Original Manuscript printings --
which, with the 13 photos, takes up 11-1/2 pages of the catalog. While
I had only 20 minutes to look at this piece when it was first
auctioned off in June of 2004, this time Sotheby's allowed me over
two hours to examine this important copy and it was a truly amazing
two hours! What a piece of AA history!

Just a couple of highlights.

The original front cover of this copy is stamped in black
ink: "LOANED COPY" -- something I have heard about but never seen
before. {Note: this copy is missing the original back cover along
with the two pages of "Index" usually found in these copies.)

The reverse side (verso) of the title page has a long handwritten
note on it (see photo in lower left on page 224 of the Sotheby's
catalog). This note continues onto the verso of another loose piece
of paper that is also included here (but not pictured in the
catalog).

This is the manuscript copy of four paragraphs that were inserted
into "Bill's Story." The paragraphs in question are the first four
complete paragraphs found on page 12 of our basic text -- starting
with "Despite ..." and ending with "... would!" These additions --
certainly the largest edit to the Big Book immediately before it was
published -- include some extremely important AA precepts, not least
of which is the italicized quote: "Why don't you choose your own
conception of God?"

This manuscript section is not in Bill's hand. I suspect (especially
given the free use of abbreviations) that it was written there by
Ruth Hock -- either transcribed from Bill's notes or taken down from
dictation.

Once again, I noticed that the name of Doctor Howard was just about
everywhere in the manuscript. He sure had a LOT to say about edits
to our book. In addition, two other doctors I have never before
heard referenced as contributors of Big Book suggestions list (Dr.
Witherspoon & Dr. Bevoise [sp?]) are also found here.

The Manuscript is littered with several comments that seem to be
rather off-handed. One noted that something was "too groupy," i.e.
Oxford Groupy. But, my favorite was opposite the first three
paragraphs currently found on page 80 of the Big Book about making
amends: "Dangerous for the NUTS -- some could go higher than a kite."

And there is some real history here. On the pages containing the
dropped story "Ace Full -- Seven -- Eleven," Bill has written the
author's name (something which has not been, to my knowledge, so far
discovered) and includes a short comment on why the story has been
dropped. (I will refrain from sharing that information here since it
rightly belongs to the owner of this copy of the Original
Manuscript.)

Finally, it is interesting to note that none of the suggested
changes to Dr. Bob's story were taken. Someone -- in an effort to cut
the text -- had advised deleting three paragraphs and Dr. Howard
wanted the last line of his story to read: "Your FAITH will never
let you down!" Bob, obviously, thought the story should remain 'as
is.'

If you are anywhere within driving distance of New York City, I
would advise you to make a trip there this coming Friday, June 15th
through Wednesday, June 20th to see this remarkable piece of our
history and to "put your hands on the Book." It was a very moving
experience for both me and my sponsor who joined me for this trip!

Old Bill

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is a collection of previous AAHistoryLovers
messages which will help in providing some of
the background to the work that has been done
on trying to identify Dr. Howard. To summarize
the basic issues and possibilities discussed:

(1) Doug B. (in 2007) originally suggested
that this might be Dr James Wainwright Howard
from Montclair, New Jersey. John Barton has
now uncovered additional evidence supporting
this.

(2) Merton M. in 2006 said that "my review of
the Montclair City Directory from 1937-1940
revealed no Dr. Howard," which made him
believe that "its quite likely that [the name
Dr. Howard] was a pseudonym."

(3) Jared Lobdell in 2006 responded to Merton
by suggesting that "Dr. Howard" might then
actually have been Marcus A. Curry, Chief at
the NJ State Asylum for the Insane at Greystone
Park during the years 1936-40 (from the
Greystone Park Annual Reports 1936-40 in
the NJ State Archives).

(4) And Jared Lobdell more recently (in Message
5834) suggested that there's the possibility
(given the "Dr. Howard") that it might be
Dr. Howard W. S. Potter (1892-1984), of New York
(Letchworth Village), a native-born Jerseyan.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

THE STANDARD IDENTIFICATION GIVEN in lists which
identify the people mentioned in the Big Book say
that the "prominent psychiatrist" referred to
on page 163 of the Big Book was Dr. Howard of
Montclair, the Chief Psychiatrist for the State
of New Jersey.

BIG BOOK page 163:

 "We know of an A.A. member who was living in a
large community. He had lived there but a few weeks
when he found that the place probably contained
more alcoholics per square mile than any city in the
country. This was only a few days ago at this writing.
(1939) The authorities were much concerned. He got
in touch with a prominent psychiatrist who had under-
taken certain responsibilities for the mental health of
the community. The doctor proved to be able and
exceedingly anxious to adopt any workable method
of handling the situation. So he inquired, what did
our friend have on the ball?"

 "Our friend proceeded to tell him. And with such
good effect that the doctor agreed to a test among his
patients and certain other alcoholics from a clinic
which he attends. Arrangements were also made with
the chief psychiatrist of a large public hospital to
select still others from the stream of misery which
flows through that institution."

The standard lists of people mentioned in the
Big Book say:

(Big Book p. 163) "an A.A. member who was
living in a large community" referred to Hank
Parkhurst in Montclair, New Jersey. "A
prominent psychiatrist" there was Dr. Howard
of Montclair, who was the Chief Psychiatrist
for the State of New Jersey.

(Big Book p. 163) "Arrangements were also made
with the chief psychiatrist of a large public
hospital" referred to Dr. Russell E. Blaisdell
and the Rockland State Hospital near Orangeburg,
New York.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

THERE WAS ALSO A "DR. HOWARD" who wrote a
critique of the early draft of the Big Book
which was circulated in multilith form.

Same man? Or a different person?

Message 1045 from "Pittman, Bill"
<bpittman@...>
May 28, 2003

Any information on Dr Howard, a well-known
psychiatrist from Montclair, New Jersey,
who helped with the multilith?

Any way to find phonebook for 1938 in Montclair?

Bill Pittman

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Message 1705 from NMOlson@...
Mar 13, 2004

MEMOIRS OF JIMMY:

THE EVOLUTION OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS

By Jim Burwell

 Hank and Bill finally decided on the name "Alcoholics Anonymous" in the latter
part of November 1938.

 About this time we almost had a disaster in our still wobbly group but it later
turned out to be a Godsend. Bill and Hank had distributed quite a few copies of
the original manuscript to doctors, psychiatrists and ministers to get a last
minute reaction. One of these went to Dr. Howard, Chief psychiatrist for the
State of New Jersey. He became greatly interested and enthusiastic, but was
highly critical of several things in the book, for after reading it he told us
there was entirely too much "Oxfordism" and that it was too demanding. This is
where the disaster nearly overtook us, for it nearly threw Bill into a terrific
mental uproar to have his "baby" pulled apart by an outside "screwball"
psychiatrist, who in our opinion knew nothing about alcoholism. After days of
wrangling between Bill, Hank, Fitz and myself, Bill was finally convinced that
all positive and "must" statements should be eliminated and in their place to
use the word "suggest" and the expression "we found we had to."

 Another thing changed in this last rewriting was qualifying the word "God" with
the phrase "as we understand Him." (This was one of my few contributions to the
book.) In the final finishing the fellowship angle was enlarged and emphasized.
After many arguments and uproars, the manuscript was finally finished, complete,
in December 1938. We now had one real problem - no money.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Message 2009 from "Arthur" <ArtSheehan@...>
posted on Sep 3, 2004

1939:

Feb/Mar (?), The distributed multilith copies were returned, but reader's
comments produced few alterations in the final text. A major change did occur at
the suggestion of a Montclair, NJ psychiatrist, Dr Howard, who recommended
toning down the use of "musts" and changing them to "we ought" or "we should."
Dr Silkworth and Dr Tiebout offered similar advice. (AACOA 167-168 NG 67-77)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Message 2396 from "Art Sheehan" <ArtSheehan@...>
posted on May 10, 2005

During Feb/Mar 1939, multilith copies of the Big Book manuscript, distributed
for review, were returned. Reader's comments produced few alterations in the
final text. A major change did occur at the suggestion of a "Dr Howard, a
well-known psychiatrist of Montclair, NJ" who recommended toning down the use of
"musts" and changing them to "we ought" or "we should." Dr Silkworth (a
neurologist) and Dr Tiebout (a psychiatrist) offered similar advice. (re AA
Comes of Age [AACOA] pgs 167-168).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Message 2628 from <mertonmm3@...>
Sep 3, 2005

[Hi Old Bob, Here's another piece of information that would probably
be of interest regarding the multilith. Again the source is Black
Sheep and its source was an exact transcription from GSO Archives mf
of original I made in the early 90's.

On February 21, 1939 Rockerfeller Foundation exec Frank Amos wrote to
co-exec Mr. Richardson,]

[additions, corrections or deletions always in brackets]

[...]

"The photo-litho copies of the book has been carefully edited, but the
individual stories, occupying the last half of the book, still must
undergo considerable editing. Also there are a number of stories to be
added, most of them, I believe, from Akron. If you will let me or Bill
know how many of those photo-litho copies you would like to have, he
will see to it that you get them at once. They are quite legible, but
of course are put up in cheap form and cannot be compared in
attractiveness and readibility to the final printed volume."

[ . . .]

STOP

[I have no notation of the original reported letter from Dr. Howard, a
psychiatrist from Montclair N.J. where Hank (and around that time Bill
as well having to vacate Brooklyn Heights, and probably also Jim as
per his story) lived at this time. This is generally refered to as the
primary source of objection to the "directions" and "you musts" that
are prevelent throughout the "multi-liths". The date of this
correspondence would be helpful to track down and it may be in Ernie
Kurtz's, Not God, footnotes.]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Merton M. believed that "Dr. Howard" was a pseudonym]

Message 3082 from <mertonmm3@...>
Jan 22, 2006

bout a month ago Chuck P. (no known relationship to Hank P. at this
time) made available to me the 4 pages from the Sotheby's catalog
where the heavily annotated manuscript that was sold for well over
$1Million appeared. Having personally owned numerous handwritten
documents that were given to me by Hank's living relatives and viewed
numerous other of Hank's original documents at GSO, Stepping Stones
and Clarence's letters from Hank now housed at Brown University, I've
concluded (to my own satisfaction anyway) that except for the much
later dated page signed by Bill the vast majority of the commentary
was pened by Hank P.

Hank had 3 different styles of handwriting, one being block letters
(which I call H1) the second being a very neatly written style (which
I call H2 and somewhat rare) and third a rapid scribble (which I call
H3 and the most typical. On the bottom of several of the pages the
initials HGP appears (Hank's initials the G. standing for Giffen).
Also note that the well known Dr. Howard (See PIO) appears several
times and it seems very likely that this is the manuscript lent to Dr.
Howard for review. Dr. Howard was the individual who told them that
the book was all wrong and they must remove the "You musts" from the
book and replace it with more suggestive language. Note that my review
of the Montclair City Directory from 1937-1940 revealed no Dr. Howard
and its quite likely that this was a pseudonym. (also his first name
is unknown and he seems to have vanished from all historical accounts
of the era after the review). Jim Burwell says in his history
something to the effect that he was the head psychiatrist of New
Jersey, though I could not find such a position to have existed then.
Any doctor at the time of the writing of the book (other than Dr.
Silkworth) would be reluctant to attaching his name to this idea or book.

There are references to some of the material being "too groupy" and to
the Oxford Group explicitly demonstrating that there was a perception
that the book should avoid such appearence.(at least by Hank).

I'm not a handwriting expert but absent a great forgery I'm quite sure
of my analysis of the majority of the handwriting being that of Hank.
I've also only seen evidence regarding these 4 pages so it goes
without saying that I have no knowlege of what appears on any of the
other pages.

As always anyone should feel free to challenge any of this (preferably
having viewed the document or fascimiles in the above-referenced
auction catelog).

That such an extraorinary document should surface at this late date
demonstrates that their is still original material out there that
hasn't been noted by anyone.

All the Best,

-merton

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Jared L. suggested that "Dr. Howard" was really Marcus A. Curry]

Message 3100 from <jlobdell54@...>
Jan 26, 2006

On the name of the "Chief Psychiatrist of NJ"
I suggest Marcus A. Curry, Chief at the NJ State Asylum for the Insane
at Greystone Park during the years 1936-40 (from the Greystone Park
Annual Reports 1936-40 in the NJ State Archives). -- Jared Lobdell

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Message 3111 from "ArtSheehan" <ArtSheehan@...>
Jan 27, 2006

Oh how I would love to find out, for certain, who "Dr Howard" was.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: James Williams <jamesewilliams@...>
(jamesewilliams at suddenlink.net)

Just look at Bill Wilson and the problems he had.

- - - -

From: Glenn Chesnut <glennccc@...>
(glennccc at sbcglobal.net)

Can you give us any sources from the 1938 to
1939 period indicating that Bill Wilson was
regarded by the other AA people as someone
who had psychological problems so severe that
it put him in a special category with just a
few other early AA people?

That there was much more wrong with him, in
other words, than just being an alcoholic?
Some kind of psychiatric problem which competent
psychiatrists had put a name on, where he had
been officially diagnosed as being schizophrenic,
manic depressive, a psychopath, or something
else of that sort?

- - - -

From: James Williams <jamesewilliams@...>
(jamesewilliams at suddenlink.net)

I was referring to the 10 yr depression that Bill
himself refers to. This is referred to not only
by Bill but also in other AA references.

I was not referring to the other things that
Bill got into (the LSD, etc.) although those
are also well known and cited often.

My point when I replied was that even Bill had
problems in this area, as most of us have.

- - - -

Original message from
"katiebartlett79" <katiebartlett79@...> asked:
>
> Hi,
>
> Katie from Barking Big Book study, The Way Out.
>
> Chapter 5, How It Works, first paragraph:
> "There are those, too, who suffer from grave
> emotional and mental disorders, but many of
> them do recover if they have the capacity to
> be honest."
>
> In the period before the Big Book was written,
> do we know the names of any specific people
> who got sober in AA in spite of the fact that
> they suffered from "grave emotional and mental
> disorders"?
>
> On what specific experience(s) were they
> basing this statement?
>
> Thanks
>

John Barton has discovered information
indicating that Dr James Wainwright Howard
from Montclair, New Jersey was probably the
"Dr. Howard" who made such useful comments
on the multilith draft of the Big Book.
 
Following up on Message 6016 which was sent
by John Barton <jax760@...>
(jax760 at yahoo.com) three days ago:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/6016
 
John Barton sent this corroborative information
on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:18 PM to
    "Glenn Chesnut" <glennccc@...>
    (glennccc at sbcglobal.net)
    "Ernest Kurtz" <kurtzern@...>
    (kurtzern at umich.edu)
    "Arthur Sheehan" <artsheehan@...>
    (artsheehan at msn.com)
    "J. Lobdell" <jlobdell54@...>
    (jlobdell54 at hotmail.com)
    "BBSGSONJ" <BBSGSONJ@...>
    (BBSGSONJ at aol.com)
 
Today I read about a Dr. C. E. Howard in Bill
White's "Slaying the Dragon," and wondered if
this might be the mysterious "Dr. Howard" who
made such useful comments on the multilith draft
of the Big Book.
 
As I pursued that lead to a 1940 article on
alcoholic psychoses I was at first sure I had
in fact found "The Dr. Howard," but then I
stumbled on a short biography of James
Wainwright Howard, which is definitely our
elusive Dr. Howard as he is all over Essex
County New Jersey and Montclair.
 
This short account of his life is given in
the "Biographical Directory Of Fellows and
Members of the American Psychiatric Association."
A copy of it may be seen at:

http://hindsfoot.org/docu1.html

As I am nearby I may go and check the records
at Mountainside Hospital.
 
Doug B. originally posted the name of Dr James
Wainwright Howard from Montclair, New Jersey
as a suggestion several years back, but it seems
his lead went unpursued. I think we should
nevertheless give Doug B. the credit for the
find! The rest of us were at fault for not
following up on his suggestion.
 
God Bless
 
John Barton

- - - -

From: "Arthur S" <ArtSheehan@...>
RE: Dr. Howard has been found!
Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:53 AM

Any chance to just send an inquiry to GSO
Archives to see if they can confirm?

I believe Merton was originally of the viewpoint
that "Dr Howard" was an alias.

Cheers
Arthur

- - - -

From: "John Barton" <jax760@...>
RE: Dr. Howard has been found!
Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:33 PM

I did copy Michelle Mirza last night and will
advise all of you of her response. I wouldn't
be surprised if they had no more information
on the good doctor than we had, or Merton
would have found it.
   
Hope more will be revealed!
 
John

- - - -

From: Mirza, Michelle <mirzam@...>
To: <BBSGSONJ@...>
Sent: Fri, Sep 18, 2009 11:57 am
Subject: RE: Dr. Howard has been found!

John -

Hello and warm greetings from GSO Archives!
 
Thank you for thoughtfully passing along
this information to us! At times we are asked
to identify particular places, people or events
described in our literature and particularly
by Bill. This information is certainly useful.
 
Always grateful for your service to A.A.!
 
Michelle

- - - -

From: "J. Lobdell" <jlobdell54@...>
RE: Dr. Howard has been found!
Friday, September 18, 2009 10:24 AM

I did some research on James Wainwright Howard
a while back but was put off by his 1930 Census
listing as a physician in general practice.

I can tell you he was born in April 1891, in
Pittsburgh, graduated from Yale in 1914 (which
the bio Jack Barton sent in told us), got his
M.D. in NYC in 1919 (ditto).

His father Abner Updegraff Howard (a Yale
graduate) was an executive with Pittsburgh
Glass, but JW was left an orphan early on,
living first with his Aunt Mary and Uncle
Frank Hunter in Norristown, Pennsylvania
in 1900 and then with his older brother Morton
(Yale 1905) in Yonkers in 1910.

What I have been particularly looking for is
any connection with Bill Wilson before 1939:
here's what I've found. First, no connection
through his college roommates, Gerry [Gerard
or Gerald] Jackson or Ralph and George Semler;
second, JW's sister Esther married Edward
Anthony, later (1942-52) publisher of the
Woman's Home Companion, and before that at
least from 1933 to 1942 with Crowell, the
publishers of the WHC.

I believe Ed Anthony (like Bill W b. 1895
d. 1971, I think) was at least an occasional
habitue of Stewart's Cafeteria. Moreover, he
had worked in his younger days on the same
paper on which worked Joseph Hooker W (who
is supposed to have said "Not Anonymous
Alcoholics -- Alcoholics Anonymous!").

So there is a possible connection there.

It's true JW was an Adlerian (studied under
Adler in 1929) so there might have been a
connection through Emily Stro[e]bel, Bill's
mother, but I have found no evidence on that.

And I have found no evidence on JW's career
after 1944, tho' I have written the Yale Alumni
Archives to see what they have.

-- Jared

- - - -

From: "BBSGSONJ@..." <BBSGSONJ@...>
Re: Dr. Howard has been found!
Friday, September 18, 2009 10:56 AM

Hi Everyone,
 
The source for the Bio I posted on Dr. Howard
was from The Biographical Directory Of Fellows
and Members of the American Psychiatric
Association. The full PDF of this document
was 96 MB.
 
The document was found at
 
http://www.archive.org/details/biographicaldire007514mbp
 
There is no doubt in my mind that this is our
man. The Bio has him as Ch. (Chief) of several
teams or committees, the N.P. I believe stands
for Neurology, Psychiatry or Neuro-psychiatry.
 
God Bless,
 
PS

- - - -

From: "BBSGSONJ@..." <BBSGSONJ@...>
Re: Dr. Howard has been found!
Friday, September 18, 2009 11:05 AM

The "connection" rather than through Bill would
more likely have been through one of two
Montclair Residents; Hank Parkhurst or Harry
Brick both sober at the time the manuscript
was complete in December of 1938. My money
would go on Hank. Having been treated so many
times himself for his illness, and being a
resident within Mountainside Hospital's
immediate vicinity it is very possible that
the good doctor may have treated Hank profes-
sionally as an attending N.P at Mountainside
34-41.
 
God Bless

- - - -

From: "BBSGSONJ@..." <BBSGSONJ@...>
Re: Dr. Howard has been found!
Friday, September 18, 2009 11:13 AM

And there is of course Harry Brick's hospitali-
zation in 1938; i.e. the story of "Fred" in
the big book. This could have brought the boys
in contact with the good doctor.
 
God Bless
 
John Barton

- - - -

From: "J. Lobdell" <jlobdell54@...>
RE: Dr. Howard has been found!
Friday, September 18, 2009 12:36 PM

It very well could be exactly as you say, but
I would hazard a guess that Dr. Howard was
consulted for editing as much as for
psychiatric knowledge, and given Bill's
general predilection for consulting people
he picked rather than those picked by others
(and what was his feeling for Hank and his
friends ca Jan 1939?), and his liking for
the magazine literati (so to speak), I'd
still be inclined to say Dr. Howard was Bill's
idea rather than Hank's, and might well have
been suggested by his brother-in-law. But
you may find an indication that Hank was indeed
treated by Dr. Howard, which would be important.

I thought I had seen, years ago, somewhere in
print, an alleged comment by Bill W. that when
asked what was the difference between character
defects and shortcomings between step 6 and 7,
that he replied "I didn't mean any difference,
I just didn't want to repeat myself using the
same word twice, I didn't think that was good
writing," or something to that effect.

I could have sworn I read it somewhere, but
now I can't find it in "As Bill Sees It" or
"AA Comes of Age" or "Pass It On."

Can anybody give me any documentation for
that statement that Bill W. is supposed to
have made? A book and a page number?

Lee Carroll, CPA

(805) 938-1981

Greetings!! Some of us on a new commmittee I
am involved with are doing a picture project
for a club.

Does anyone have a picture of Bill W., Hank P.,
and Ruth Hock, the three of them together,
they can email to us?

We need that to complete the project. It's for
the newcomers there as part of the learning
process.

If you have a copy of such a photo, please email
one to me at:

<erb2b@...> (erb2b at yahoo.com)

THX! Corey F.

Alcoholics Anonymous In North Carolina

Sept. 20, 2009, Shelby will be commemorating 70 years of Alcoholics Anonymous in
North Carolina.

For more information on this event, go to http://wpintergroup.org.


Additional information follows:

AA first started to form in Shelby, North Carolina in the fall of 1939.

Early correspondence can be found at http://aastuff.com/district13workshop.htm

Bill W. talks about his visit in a Lecture in 1944 at
http://aastuff.com/lecture29.htm

Scroll down a little more than half of page to the paragraph that starts with:
"I would like to tell, in conclusion..."

The following link

http://aastuff.com/

also has some of the Oxford Group books that
are in the public domain.

I am the recently-appointed archivist for the Cleveland District Office
a.k.a. Cleveland Central Office. Archives have never had a very high
priority at that office until recently. So over the years attrition of what
few archival items and records were stored has withered our collection to
just a very few boxes.

If any of you have items or records (pertinent to Cleveland AA) that you are
willing to part with or copy and to send to us, we will take due care that
they will be safeguarded and available to researchers in the decades to
come. I will be at the National AA Archives workshop in California at the
end of this month, or they can be sent to us at:

Cleveland District Office

Reserve Square - Lower Level

1701 E 12th St

Cleveland, OH 44114

The archives community was very helpful to me a dozen years ago when I was
seeking missing issues of the Cleveland Central Bulletin as part of a
project to scan these and get them onto a searchable CD. I am hoping that
they can again help me in this new endeavor.

Bob McK.

E-MAIL ADDRESS:
<bobnotgod2@...>
(bobnotgod2 at att.net)

And it has already been announced...
2015 Atlanta
2020 Detroit

- - - -

>
> The list of sites is as follows:
>
> 1950 Cleveland
> 1955 St. Louis
> 1960 Long Beach
> 1965 Toronto
> 1970 Miami
> 1975 Denver
> 1980 New Orleans
> 1985 Montreal
> 1990 Seattle
> 1995 San Diego
> 2000 Minneapolis
> 2005 Toronto
> 2010 San Antonio
>

Has anyone run across any document verifying
the closing date of the Charles B. Towns
Hospital for the Treatment of Drug and Alcoholic
Addictions?

Bill White

Hi.  My name is Mae, an alcoholic, and I'm a new
member.  Could someone tell me what the previous
locations of the International Conventions were?
   
Thanks!
Mae

- - - -

From the moderator:

An account of each of the previous AA International
Conventions is given at

http://www.a-1associates.com/aa/internationalconvention.htm

Those are very good accounts, and they make
very interesting reading.

The list of sites is as follows:

1950 Cleveland
1955 St. Louis
1960 Long Beach
1965 Toronto
1970 Miami
1975 Denver
1980 New Orleans
1985 Montreal
1990 Seattle
1995 San Diego
2000 Minneapolis
2005 Toronto
2010 San Antonio

The Truth of what happened to
The Triangle In The  Circle
From Rick T., Area 20 Archivist, Illinois

Metaphysics and copyrights aside, anyone can still use the circle and
triangle logo! It's just not the "official" trade mark for Alcoholics Anonymous
anymore...Since 1993, lawyers advised the General Service Board that the
copyright on the logo was unenforceable.
I remember the reports generating out of the Board and an Ad Hoc Committee
meeting in January 1993 (two months before the General Service Conference).
The  Ad Hoc committee of Delegates and Trustees (chosen from a
cross-section of AA  Regions) came to the conclusion that recommended a simple
phrase
replacing it in  all the AAWS printing and publications from the Conference
forward "This is A.A.  General Service Conference-approved literature."
The Conference also agreed with this idea, and by the beginning of May 1993
a  notice was sent out by the General Service Board that AAWS, Inc. would
discontinue the use of the Circle and Triangle logo in its then-existing
formats  (1) blank, 2) with "AA" in the center of the triangle, 3) with "AA"
and General  Service Conference on the outside of the triangle, and 4) "AA"
and Recovery,  Unity, Service outside the triangle - those were accepted uses
by AA through  that 1993 announcement).
The logo had been used officially from 1957 to 1993, and that's thirty-six
years of uncontested usage - until the General Service Board thought to ask
the  medallion and coin makers to "cease and desist" using it. For a time
in 1991-92  the coin manufacturers complied (to this member, with unsightly
results...), but  somewhere in 1992 decided to re-negotiate and contest the
Board's position. Not  that the case ever went to trial as a violation of
copyright law; advice to the  Board was that the copyright was either not
renewed (in 1976, the Big Book  copyright was unfortunately not renewed by an
oversight error of omission in  legal advice to the GSB, too!) or completely
unenforceable, perhaps due to the  compliance of the coin makers not using it
(some who claimed or threatened to  claim their own copyright in the coin
formats, etc.).
To remedy a pretty bad legal situation, the Conference heard the
recommendation of simply using the 'conference-approved' phrase on literature. 
Where
much discussion for a few years centered on AA going into the business of
minting its own coins (definitely an outside issue), and suing the coin
makers  (against the 'spirit and letter' of the 12 Concepts for World
Service--avoiding  lawsuits whenever possible), the "catch-22" choices were
evident,
and the  Conference recommendation was a workable solution.
I have a friend and past Delegate who is also a lawyer, and he shared with
me, that if anyone can put together a terrible process of lawsuits, it's
us...no  wonder we are advised against litigation, especially on outside
issues. Did you  know that upside down, the blank logo is the symbol for an air
raid shelter? We  had even found the same circle and triangle on manhole
covers in Illinois (old  ones from the Elgin City Water Dept.). You can imagine
the view that any  copyright court might take on this if we had followed
through with long  litigation - it would almost be the question asked "are you
joking?"
Today we can have a bit of fun discussing our use and its current
"unofficial" status. The official logo was a beautiful part of our past, when 
the
1993 Conference also allowed that many AAs, AA events, etc. would still be
using our circle and triangle logo, and there would be no interference in
that.  Of course, now we don't "own" the logo, but as far as I know, no one
does...  Perhaps you'll use it in the same spirit used in our past years, but
don't worry  about infringing on another's copyright. Use your own judgment,
seek an informal  consensus, but lightly take the above ideas into
consideration. The circle and  triangle is not "banned by A.A.," just
discontinued
since 1993 as a trademark.

Love and Peace, Barefoot
_Index of  AA History Pages on Barefoot's Domain_
(http://www.barefootsworld.net/aahistory.html)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Doug B.

You are correct!

More to follow

John B

- - - -

The orginal message #4377 from Bill Schaberg
<schaberg@...> (schaberg at aol.com) said:

> > Once again, I noticed that the name of Doctor Howard was just about
> > everywhere in the manuscript. He sure had a LOT to say about edits
> > to our book. In addition, two other doctors I have never before
> > heard referenced as contributors of Big Book suggestions list (Dr.
> > Witherspoon & Dr. Bevoise [sp?]) are also found here.

- - - -

--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Doug B." <dougb@...>
wrote in response:
>
> Bill,
>
> Thanks for your observations...my spine was tingling!
>
> I found the following Dr's that might fit your question:
>
> Dr James Wainwright Howard from Montclair, NJ graduated P&S in 1919
> Dr Charles Russell Witherspoon from Rochester, NY graduated Uof P in
> 1898
> No mention of a Dr. Bevoise [any spelling]) in NY, NJ or CT in 1936
>
> Doug B.

- - - -

The full text of Bill Schaberg's message no. 4377:

> > I went down to Sotheby's today to take a long look at the Original
> > Manuscript copy that they will be auctioning off on Thursday, June
> > 21st. This is the OM copy where Hank, Ruth, Bill, and others
> > recorded ALL of the suggestions that they received for edits before
> > actually printing the first edition of the Big Book. It is an
> > important historical document on many levels, but most importantly,
> > I think, because it shows who made some of the suggestions and also
> > allows you to see the suggestions that our founders did NOT take
> > when editing the Big Book.
> >
> > NOTE: I was privileged with a private viewing of this copy of the
> > Original Manuscript because I had assisted the cataloger in his
> > write up of the history of the Original Manuscript printings –
> > which, with the 13 photos, takes up 11½ pages of the catalog. While
> > I had only 20 minutes to look at this piece when it was first
> > auctioned off in June of 2004, this time Sotheby's allowed me over
> > two hours to examine this important copy and it was a truly amazing
> > two hours! What a piece of AA history!
> >
> > Just a couple of highlights.
> >
> > The original front cover of this copy is stamped in black
> > ink: "LOANED COPY" – something I have heard about but never seen
> > before. {Note: this copy is missing the original back cover along
> > with the two pages of "Index" usually found in these copies.)
> >
> > The reverse side (verso) of the title page has a long handwritten
> > note on it (see photo in lower left on page 224 of the Sotheby's
> > catalog). This note continues onto the verso of another loose piece
> > of paper that is also included here (but not pictured in the
> > catalog).
> >
> > This is the manuscript copy of four paragraphs that were inserted
> > into "Bill's Story." The paragraphs in question are the first four
> > complete paragraphs found on page 12 of our basic text – starting
> > with "Despite…" and ending with "…would!" These additions –
> > certainly the largest edit to the Big Book immediately before it was
> > published – include some extremely important AA precepts, not least
> > of which is the italicized quote: "Why don't you choose your own
> > conception of God?"
> >
> > This manuscript section is not in Bill's hand. I suspect (especially
> > given the free use of abbreviations) that it was written there by
> > Ruth Hock – either transcribed from Bill's notes or taken down from
> > dictation.
> >
> > Once again, I noticed that the name of Doctor Howard was just about
> > everywhere in the manuscript. He sure had a LOT to say about edits
> > to our book. In addition, two other doctors I have never before
> > heard referenced as contributors of Big Book suggestions list (Dr.
> > Witherspoon & Dr. Bevoise [sp?]) are also found here.
> >
> > The Manuscript is littered with several comments that seem to be
> > rather off-handed. One noted that something was "too groupy," i.e.
> > Oxford Groupy. But, my favorite was opposite the first three
> > paragraphs currently found on page 80 of the Big Book about making
> > amends: "Dangerous for the NUTS – some could go higher than a kite."
> >
> > And there is some real history here. On the pages containing the
> > dropped story "Ace Full – Seven – Eleven," Bill has written the
> > author's name (something which has not been, to my knowledge, so far
> > discovered) and includes a short comment on why the story has been
> > dropped. (I will refrain from sharing that information here since it
> > rightly belongs to the owner of this copy of the Original
> > Manuscript.)
> >
> > Finally, it is interesting to note that none of the suggested
> > changes to Dr. Bob's story were taken. Someone – in an effort to cut
> > the text – had advised deleting three paragraphs and Dr. Howard
> > wanted the last line of his story to read: "Your FAITH will never
> > let you down!" Bob, obviously, thought the story should remain `as
> > is.'
> >
> > If you are anywhere within driving distance of New York City, I
> > would advise you to make a trip there this coming Friday, June 15th
> > through Wednesday, June 20th to see this remarkable piece of our
> > history and to "put your hands on the Book." It was a very moving
> > experience for both me and my sponsor who joined me for this trip!
> >
> > Old Bill

This may have been shared, but I couldn't find
it in a previous post with a search.

If you're interested in reading William James'
"The Varieties of Religious Experience" you can
find the complete text online at:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:William_James_The_Varieties_of_Religious_\
Experience.pdf

- - - -

From the moderator:

And there are also a number of other places where
one can find the full text online, some with type
which is easier to read than others.

http://etext.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/JamVari.html

http://www.human-nature.com/reason/james/contents.html

http://csp.org/experience/james-varieties/james-varieties.html

Has anyone access or a link to a photo (or
photos) of Wynn Laws?

Thanks.

Lee Carroll, CPA
(805) 938-1981

- - - -

From the moderator: I assume that you are
referring to Wynn Corum Laws?

See photo of Wynn Corum in
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-otherwomen.html

For more about her, see
http://westbalto.a-1associates.com/HISTORY_PAGE/Authors.htm
Wynn Corum Laws, Big Book story "Freedom From Bondage"

"Sometime after 1955 when her story appeared
in the Big Book, she married her fifth husband,
George Laws."

Passing on a question asked of me:  "I heard that AA had previously
had copyright for the triangle-in-the-circle symbol but gave it up as
others began to use it to avoid conflict/legal affairs/money issues...
is that right?"

I am not sure whether or not all the money/copyright/etc. issues made
it to the General Service Conference:  might anyone have a complete
set of those reports (preferably digitized)?

Somewhat relatedly, might anyone have copies of records of all legal
actions taken in the AA name?

Thanks,

ernie kurtz