The topic is "powerless over people, places and things", wnich cliche is absent

from the basic literature of AA, NA and Al-Anon.  The topic is not "people,

places and things."  According to the Unofficial Big Book Search Engine, the

word "people" is found on 78 pages of the basic text.  "People" isn't the topic

either. You won't find the cliche "powerless over people places things" in the

basic literature of AA. You won't find it in the basic literature of NA or

Al-Anon either. You won't locate the recommendation "avoid people places and

things" in the basic literature of those three fellowships, although that nugget

is heard frequently in rehabs, AA meetings and NA meeetings. You'll hear the

chanting of "keep coming back" at virtually every AA meeting, but that's not in

the basic text of AA either. I don't believe you'll find it in the Bigger Book

either [the one with the black cover and ribbon].   Christ never said, "Keep

coming back." He

  said, "Heal the sick...Freely have you received, freely give."   In AA we carry

the message to those who still suffer.

Pass it on.

John Lee

Pittsburgh



--- On Tue, 6/23/09, Robert Stonebraker <rstonebraker212@...> wrote:





From: Robert Stonebraker <rstonebraker212@...>

Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things"

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 5:50 PM

















The inquiry comes from the previous message concerning the validity of page

Dr. Paul's quote from page 417.



The answer:



The stories in the second section of the book are not considered as the

clear cut directions. Please read page 29: "Further on clear cut directions

are given showing how we recovered. These are followed by forty-two

personal experiences. "



The personal experiences are not the clear cut directions.



Bob S.



www.4dgroups. org



============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========



From: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com

[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bridgetsbuddy

Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:39 AM

To: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things"



What about this one? "When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person,

place, thing, or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me,

and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or

situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment."

("Acceptance was the Answer," BB, 4th Ed., p.417) No?



--- In AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com

<mailto:AAHistoryLo vers%40yahoogrou ps.com> , Jon Markle <serenitylodge@ ...>

wrote:

>

> Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and

> things" come from?

>

> Hugs for the trudge.

>

> Jon (Raleigh)

> 9/9/82

>

> "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee

> Williams)

>

> "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not

> permanent." (M.McLaughlin)

>

> "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV

> stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology

> when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson)

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AA has a rich oral tradition which includes many sayings, slogans and common

expressions.

 

Some of these expressions can be found in the AA literature and others can't. 

Regardless of that fact, these saying and slogans are as much a part of

authentic AA History as the coffee pot.  AA is as AA does, and AA does use

sayings and slogans. It always has and I believe that it always will.

 

Sincerely, Jim F.



--- On Wed, 6/24/09, johnlawlee@... <johnlawlee@...> wrote:





From: johnlawlee@... <johnlawlee@...>

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] RE: "Powerless over people places things"

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 4:56 AM



















The topic is "powerless over people, places and things", wnich cliche is absent

from the basic literature of AA, NA and Al-Anon.  The topic is not "people,

places and things."  According to the Unofficial Big Book Search Engine, the

word "people" is found on 78 pages of the basic text.  "People" isn't the topic

either. You won't find the cliche "powerless over people places things" in the

basic literature of AA. You won't find it in the basic literature of NA or

Al-Anon either. You won't locate the recommendation "avoid people places and

things" in the basic literature of those three fellowships, although that nugget

is heard frequently in rehabs, AA meetings and NA meeetings. You'll hear the

chanting of "keep coming back" at virtually every AA meeting, but that's not in

the basic text of AA either. I don't believe you'll find it in the Bigger Book

either [the one with the black cover and ribbon].   Christ never said, "Keep

coming back." He

said, "Heal the sick...Freely have you received, freely give."   In AA we carry

the message to those who still suffer.

Pass it on.

John Lee

Pittsburgh



--- On Tue, 6/23/09, Robert Stonebraker <rstonebraker212@ comcast.net> wrote:



From: Robert Stonebraker <rstonebraker212@ comcast.net>

Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things"

To: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 5:50 PM



The inquiry comes from the previous message concerning the validity of page

Dr. Paul's quote from page 417.



The answer:



The stories in the second section of the book are not considered as the

clear cut directions. Please read page 29: "Further on clear cut directions

are given showing how we recovered. These are followed by forty-two

personal experiences. "



The personal experiences are not the clear cut directions.



Bob S.



www.4dgroups. org



============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========



From: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com

[mailto:AAHistoryLo vers@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bridgetsbuddy

Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:39 AM

To: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things"



What about this one? "When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person,

place, thing, or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me,

and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or

situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment."

("Acceptance was the Answer," BB, 4th Ed., p.417) No?



--- In AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com

<mailto:AAHistoryLo vers%40yahoogrou ps.com> , Jon Markle <serenitylodge@ ...>

wrote:

>

> Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and

> things" come from?

>

> Hugs for the trudge.

>

> Jon (Raleigh)

> 9/9/82

>

> "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee

> Williams)

>

> "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not

> permanent." (M.McLaughlin)

>

> "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV

> stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology

> when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson)

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Among the plethora of ideas discussed by our pioneers - for example,

establishing "AA" hospitals - about the only one to survive was the decision to

publish the Big Book. Early members were aware that the message could be

diluted, distorted and misrepresented when passed on orally. The slogans which

adorn the walls at so many AA meetings are not Conference-approved; though three

of them appear at the end of chapter nine in the Big Book, viz: First Things

First; Live and Let Live; Easy Does It. One slogan - There but for the grace of

God - is contentious, suggesting as it does that some alcoholics are chosen for

salvation and others condemned. Likewise, the Serenity Prayer is not

Conference-approved, though undoubtedly an established part of our oral

tradition. So, unless tested by the Fellowship's group conscience as expressed

at Conference, expressions heard at meetings, like e.g. Keep it simple stupid,

should be taken with a pinch of salt. Some are more helpful than others; some

are contrary to our tradition, e.g. "It (addiction) is all the same illness."



Laurie A.





To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

From: jdf10487@...

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:36:02 -0700

Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] RE: "Powerless over people places things"















AA has a rich oral tradition which includes many sayings, slogans and common

expressions.



Some of these expressions can be found in the AA literature and others can't. 

Regardless of that fact, these saying and slogans are as much a part of

authentic AA History as the coffee pot.  AA is as AA does, and AA does use

sayings and slogans. It always has and I believe that it always will.



Sincerely, Jim F.



--- On Wed, 6/24/09, johnlawlee@... <johnlawlee@...> wrote:



From: johnlawlee@... <johnlawlee@...>

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] RE: "Powerless over people places things"

To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 4:56 AM



The topic is "powerless over people, places and things", wnich cliche is absent

from the basic literature of AA, NA and Al-Anon.  The topic is not "people,

places and things."  According to the Unofficial Big Book Search Engine, the

word "people" is found on 78 pages of the basic text.  "People" isn't the topic

either. You won't find the cliche "powerless over people places things" in the

basic literature of AA. You won't find it in the basic literature of NA or

Al-Anon either. You won't locate the recommendation "avoid people places and

things" in the basic literature of those three fellowships, although that nugget

is heard frequently in rehabs, AA meetings and NA meeetings. You'll hear the

chanting of "keep coming back" at virtually every AA meeting, but that's not in

the basic text of AA either. I don't believe you'll find it in the Bigger Book

either [the one with the black cover and ribbon].   Christ never said, "Keep

coming back." He

said, "Heal the sick...Freely have you received, freely give."   In AA we carry

the message to those who still suffer.

Pass it on.

John Lee

Pittsburgh



--- On Tue, 6/23/09, Robert Stonebraker <rstonebraker212@ comcast.net> wrote:



From: Robert Stonebraker <rstonebraker212@ comcast.net>

Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things"

To: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 5:50 PM



The inquiry comes from the previous message concerning the validity of page

Dr. Paul's quote from page 417.



The answer:



The stories in the second section of the book are not considered as the

clear cut directions. Please read page 29: "Further on clear cut directions

are given showing how we recovered. These are followed by forty-two

personal experiences. "



The personal experiences are not the clear cut directions.



Bob S.



www.4dgroups. org



============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========



From: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com

[mailto:AAHistoryLo vers@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bridgetsbuddy

Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:39 AM

To: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things"



What about this one? "When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person,

place, thing, or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me,

and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or

situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment."

("Acceptance was the Answer," BB, 4th Ed., p.417) No?



--- In AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com

<mailto:AAHistoryLo vers%40yahoogrou ps.com> , Jon Markle <serenitylodge@ ...>

wrote:

>

> Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and

> things" come from?

>

> Hugs for the trudge.

>

> Jon (Raleigh)

> 9/9/82

>

> "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee

> Williams)

>

> "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not

> permanent." (M.McLaughlin)

>

> "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV

> stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology

> when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson)

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















_________________________________________________________________

Get the best of MSN on your mobile

http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/147991039/direct/01/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There but for the Grace of God [goes old John Bradford]" is the first use I

know (1550?) of the phrase in English -- said, by a former paymaster of the

King's forces at Calais who had embezzled funds (possibly for drinking), but

been converted by Hugh Latimer and made amends and restitution, on seeing

another embezzler of the King's funds being taken away to execution.  There is

no particular question of predestination, nor is the phrase peculiar to

alcoholics -- in fact it was popularized long before the word "alcoholic"

existed.  It refers quite simply to the fact that we (whoever we may be) don't

recover (from any sin or sickness) by our own unaided efforts -- and I'm not

sure that should be contentious in A.A., or elsewhere.



> To: aahistorylovers@yahoogroups.com

> From: jennylaurie1@...

> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:46:39 +0000

> Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] RE: "Powerless over people places things"

>

>

> Among the plethora of ideas discussed by our pioneers - for example,

establishing "AA" hospitals - about the only one to survive was the decision to

publish the Big Book. Early members were aware that the message could be

diluted, distorted and misrepresented when passed on orally. The slogans which

adorn the walls at so many AA meetings are not Conference-approved; though three

of them appear at the end of chapter nine in the Big Book, viz: First Things

First; Live and Let Live; Easy Does It. One slogan - There but for the grace of

God - is contentious, suggesting as it does that some alcoholics are chosen for

salvation and others condemned. Likewise, the Serenity Prayer is not

Conference-approved, though undoubtedly an established part of our oral

tradition. So, unless tested by the Fellowship's group conscience as expressed

at Conference, expressions heard at meetings, like e.g. Keep it simple stupid,

should be taken with a pinch of salt. Some are more helpful than others; some

are contrary to our tradition, e.g. "It (addiction) is all the same illness."

>

> Laurie A.

>

>

> To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

> From: jdf10487@...

> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:36:02 -0700

> Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] RE: "Powerless over people places things"

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> AA has a rich oral tradition which includes many sayings, slogans and common

expressions.

>

> Some of these expressions can be found in the AA literature and others can't. 

Regardless of that fact, these saying and slogans are as much a part of

authentic AA History as the coffee pot.  AA is as AA does, and AA does use

sayings and slogans. It always has and I believe that it always will.

>

> Sincerely, Jim F.

>

> --- On Wed, 6/24/09, johnlawlee@... <johnlawlee@...> wrote:

>

> From: johnlawlee@... <johnlawlee@...>

> Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] RE: "Powerless over people places things"

> To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com

> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 4:56 AM

>

> The topic is "powerless over people, places and things", wnich cliche is

absent from the basic literature of AA, NA and Al-Anon.  The topic is not

"people, places and things."  According to the Unofficial Big Book Search

Engine, the word "people" is found on 78 pages of the basic text.  "People"

isn't the topic either. You won't find the cliche "powerless over people places

things" in the basic literature of AA. You won't find it in the basic literature

of NA or Al-Anon either. You won't locate the recommendation "avoid people

places and things" in the basic literature of those three fellowships, although

that nugget is heard frequently in rehabs, AA meetings and NA meeetings. You'll

hear the chanting of "keep coming back" at virtually every AA meeting, but

that's not in the basic text of AA either. I don't believe you'll find it in the

Bigger Book either [the one with the black cover and ribbon].   Christ never

said, "Keep coming back." He

> said, "Heal the sick...Freely have you received, freely give."   In AA we

carry the message to those who still suffer.

> Pass it on.

> John Lee

> Pittsburgh

>

> --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Robert Stonebraker <rstonebraker212@ comcast.net> wrote:

>

> From: Robert Stonebraker <rstonebraker212@ comcast.net>

> Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things"

> To: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com

> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 5:50 PM

>

> The inquiry comes from the previous message concerning the validity of page

> Dr. Paul's quote from page 417.

>

> The answer:

>

> The stories in the second section of the book are not considered as the

> clear cut directions. Please read page 29: "Further on clear cut directions

> are given showing how we recovered. These are followed by forty-two

> personal experiences. "

>

> The personal experiences are not the clear cut directions.

>

> Bob S.

>

> www.4dgroups. org

>

> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========

>

> From: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com

> [mailto:AAHistoryLo vers@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bridgetsbuddy

> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:39 AM

> To: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com

> Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things"

>

> What about this one? "When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person,

> place, thing, or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me,

> and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or

> situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment."

> ("Acceptance was the Answer," BB, 4th Ed., p.417) No?

>

> --- In AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com

> <mailto:AAHistoryLo vers%40yahoogrou ps.com> , Jon Markle <serenitylodge@ ...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and

> > things" come from?

> >

> > Hugs for the trudge.

> >

> > Jon (Raleigh)

> > 9/9/82

> >

> > "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee

> > Williams)

> >

> > "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not

> > permanent." (M.McLaughlin)

> >

> > "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV

> > stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology

> > when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get the best of MSN on your mobile

> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/147991039/direct/01/

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>



_________________________________________________________________

Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits.

http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_St\

orage_062009



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Jun 27, 2009, at 11:14 AM,

J. Lobdell wrote in Message 5835:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/5835



>"There but for the Grace of God [goes old John Bradford]" is the

>first use I know (1550?) of the phrase in English -- said, by a

>former paymaster of the King's forces at Calais who had embezzled

>funds (possibly for drinking), but been converted by Hugh Latimer

>and made amends and restitution, on seeing another embezzler of the

>King's funds being taken away to execution.  There is no particular

>question of predestination, nor is the phrase peculiar to alcoholics

>-- in fact it was popularized long before the word "alcoholic"

>existed.  It refers quite simply to the fact that we (whoever we may

>be) don't recover (from any sin or sickness) by our own unaided

>efforts -- and I'm not sure that should be contentious in A.A., or

>elsewhere.



Our slogan is not the same as the quote being "But for the Grace of

God," and I'm not at all sure "grace" is capitalized.  Quibbling,

perhaps, but it gives the meaning a different slant.



I belive the five slogans which start "live easy but think first" are

available from the New York Office, which lends a certain amount of

authority to them.  They originally appeared as slogans in the

Grapevine in the middle '50s according to Art Sheehan.



As far as any of them being contentious, I think that is entirely

dependent on the eye of the beholder.



Tommy H in Baton Rouge



- - - -



From: Jon Markle <serenitylodge@...>

(serenitylodge at mac.com)



I do agree however, that the clear implication is that God's Grace is

predetermined to be available to some people but not all.

(Predestination is indeed a very hotly contentious religious dogma).



If/when I use that platitude, I always make sure that the grace *I*

understand is free and available to anyone and everyone.  The only

thing that makes the difference, is whether or not each of us chooses

to make use of that empowering grace.



Hugs for the trudge.



Jon (Raleigh)

9/9/82

From John B (jax760), J. Lobdell, and Baileygc23



- - - -



From: "jax760" <jax760@...> (jax760 at yahoo.com)



"It does not seem necessary to defer to the feelings of our agnostic and atheist

newcomers to the extent of completely hiding our light under a bushel."  Bill W.

to Russ R. 1959 LTR



As he did so many times in many of his writings Bill quotes the Bible in

expressing everyday ideas. Here of course it's the Sermon on The Mount,  Matthew

5:14-16



Bill frequently disguised his religious (or spiritual if you prefer) thought so

as to not scare away the newcomer but his views and his "biblically based" ideas

i.e. "ancient principles" can be found throughout his published and personal

writings.



I think we can find the roots of all the slogans and substantiate them, or cite

sources for most of them.



From the AA History Book "Pass It On"



"Bill now joined Bob and Anne in the Oxford Group practice of having morning

guidance sessions together, with Anne reading from the Bible. "Reading… from her

chair in the corner she would softly conclude `Faith without works is dead.' "

As Dr. Bob described it they were convinced that the answer to our problem was

the Good Book. To some of us older ones, the parts that we found absolutely

essential were the Sermon on the Mount, the 13th Chapter of First Corinthians

and the Book of James. The Book of James was so important, in fact, that some

early members even suggested "The James Club" as a name for the fellowship." –

p. 147



From the AA History Book "Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers"



"We already had the basic ideas, though not in terse and tangible form. We got

them…as a result of our study of the Good Book. We must have had them. Since

then we have learned from experience that they are very important in maintaining

sobriety. We were maintaining sobriety – therefore we must have had them." – p.

97



"Dr. Bob noted there were no 12 steps at that time and that `our stories didn't

amount to anything to speak of,' later said they were convinced that that the

answer to their problems was in the Good Book. `To some of us older ones the

parts that we found absolutely essential were the Sermon on the Mount, the 13th

Chapter of First Corinthians and the Book of James' he said. This was the

beginning of A.A.'s "flying blind period." They had the Bible; they had the

precepts of the Oxford Group. They also had their own instincts. They were

working, or working out, the A.A. program – the Twelve Steps – without quite

knowing how they were doing it." – p. 96



The Biblical Roots of the Slogans are as follows"



Live and Let Live (The Golden Rule) - Matthew 7:12

"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."



Easy Does it (One Day at a Time) Matthew 6:34

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for

the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."



But for the Grace of God - 1 Corinthians 15:10

"But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon

me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all:  yet not I,

but the grace of God which was with me."



Think Think Think - Romans12:3

"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not

to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly,

according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."



First Things First Matthew 6:33

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;

and all these things shall be added unto you."



Some of these slogans are first discussed (from a history perspective) in one of

the Earliest Akron Pamphlets, The Akron Manual circa 1940-41 which tells the

newcomer: "There is the Bible that you haven't opened for years. Get acquainted

with it. Read it with an open mind. You will find things that will amaze you.

You will be convinced that certain passages were written with you in mind. Read

the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew V, VI, and VII). Read St. Paul's inspired essay

on love (I Corinthians XIII). Read the Book of James. Read the Twenty-third and

Ninety-first Psalms. These readings are brief but so important."



From this pamphlet:



Shortly after you leave the hospital you will be on your own. The Bible tells us

to put "first things first." Alcohol is obviously the first thing in your life.

So concentrate on conquering it."



"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for

the things itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. -- Matthew VI,

34.

These words are taken from the Sermon on the Mount. Simply, they mean live in

today only. Forget yesterday. Do not anticipate tomorrow. You can only live one

day at a time, and if you do a good job of that, you will have little trouble.

One of the easiest, most practical ways of keeping sober ever devised is the day

by day plan, the 24-hour plan. You know that it is possible to stay sober for 24

hours. You have done it many times. All right. Stay sober for one day at a time.

When you get up in the morning make up your mind that you will not take a drink

for the entire day. Ask the Greater Power for a little help in this. If anyone

asks you to have a drink, take a rain check. Say you will have it tomorrow. Then

when you go to bed at night, finding yourself sober, say a little word of thanks

to the Greater Power for having helped you. Repeat the performance the next day.

And the next. Before you realize it you will have been sober a week, a month, a

year. And yet you will have only been sober a day at a time.



"There is an old saying, "Easy does it." It is a motto that any alcoholic could

well ponder. A child learns to add and subtract in the lower grades. He is not

expected to do problems in algebra until he is in high school. Sobriety is a

thing that must be learned step by step. If anything puzzles you, ask your new

friends about it, or forget it for the time being. The time is not so far away

when you will have a good understanding of the entire program. Meantime, EASY

DOES IT!"



From another of the earliest Akron Pamphlets:



"The road to rehabilitation is not as long as the road to alcoholism, but

neither is it as tough. If you have successfully made the Sixth and Seventh

Steps you will fully understand this. Always remember, easy does it. We must

take life and its problems a single thing at a time" The Akron Guide to the 12

Steps



a single thing at a time……… as in one day at a time…….. as in easy does it?)



As Jared mentions, one of the earliest uses of "But for the grace of God"….. is

John Bradford who I would suggest took it from Paul's letter to the Corinthians

slightly out of context but expressing the identical idea as Saint Paul.



As for Think Think Think and how it is used in Romans 12:3………..you be the judge.



Knowing the Biblical roots of our program as noted above,the fledgling

fellowship (the First Forty and One Hundred)modeling itself after another

fledling fellowship (The Oxford Group) modeling itself after another fledgling

fellowship (The First Century followers of the teachings of the Man from

Galillee) why should it surprise us that our slogans all came from the bible?



God Bless



John B



- - - -



From: "J. Lobdell" <jlobdell54@...> (jlobdell54 at hotmail.com)



I'm not sure what different slant is given by the word "there" before "the grace

[or Grace] of God" tho' there might well be a different slant according to

whether "Grace" is capitalized.  But my point was that the phrase long antedates

AA (so, for example, does "One Day At A Time" -- which was the title of a column

by William Lyon Phelps in the newspapers in the 1920s) and I figured AA history

doesn't start with AA (Washingtonians? Oxford Group?), so perhaps AA

historylovers might be interested in how this slogan started.  As I say, I'm not

sure I see a significant difference between "but for the Grace of God" and

"[There] but for the Grace of God" -- but they may well have different

connotations to different people.  I certainly agree that contentiousness is in

the eye of the beholder: it just happens that -- just in my experience -- the

view that alcoholics do not get sober on their own isn't particularly

contentious -- which was my other point here.



- - - -



From: Baileygc23@... (Baileygc23 at aol.com)



Although Bill W most likely went along with the

slogans, he did point out that the new comer is

sensitive to aggression in the name of spirituality.

God making me better off than the next person is

aggression. The beholder may think that we are

making fun of him.

We have been discussing the early AA slogans,

especially "But for the Grace of God."



But another of the early slogans was also

mentioned:



This one -- "Think think think" -- was perhaps

not biblical. It seems to have been an IBM slogan

put up on a Cleveland AA bulletin board or the

equivalent ca 1944 much to the chagrin of

Clarence S., who observed (approximately)

"Alcoholics don't think -- they emote."



(Mitch K. can probably provide chapter and

verse on this.)



- - - -



> From: John B <jax760@...>

   (jax760 at yahoo.com)

> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009

> Subject: Re: There but for the grace of God



> The Biblical Roots of the Slogans are as follows"



> Think Think Think - Romans12:3

> "For I say, through the grace given unto me,

to every man that is among you, not to think of

himself more highly than he ought to think; but

to think soberly, according as God hath dealt

to every man the measure of faith."

THINK, THINK, THINK



This slogan is not found in the BB but was

adopted by AA members from a sign that came

with early IBM calculating machines. The sign

said:



THINK of what you are about to do



THINK of what you are doing



THINK of what you have done



- - - -



J. Lobdell <jlobdell54@...> wrote:



We have been discussing the early AA slogans,

especially "But for the Grace of God."



But another of the early slogans was also

mentioned:



This one -- "Think think think" -- was perhaps

not biblical. It seems to have been an IBM slogan

put up on a Cleveland AA bulletin board or the

equivalent ca 1944 much to the chagrin of

Clarence S., who observed (approximately)

"Alcoholics don't think -- they emote."



(Mitch K. can probably provide chapter and

verse on this.)

I don't see any cause and effect association

between the IBM and AA slogans - it's seems

like speculation. Is there a non-anecdotal

source for corroboration that it "... was

adopted by AA members from a sign that came

with early IBM calculating machines ..."



T J Watson Sr coined the slogan "Think" in 1911

long before the forerunner companies evolved

into the name "International Business Machines"

in 1924. The slogan consisted simply of the

single word "Think."



http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/attic2/attic2_207.html



Cheers

Arthur



- - - -



From: Jon Markle <serenitylodge@...>

(serenitylodge at mac.com)



Re: Another of the slogans: Think think think



This one was exlplained to me:  Think it all

the way through.



Hugs for the trudge

Jon (Raleigh)

9/9/82



- - - -



From: "Glenn Chesnut" glennccc@...

(glennccc at sbcglobal.net)



It seems to me that Arthur's warning should

be taken seriously.



It certainly appears that a lot of legend

and creative myth-making has built up around

this. I did a search on the internet for IBM

and the word "think," and in every single

case that word only appeared once. I could

find no example at all of an IBM sign that

had "Think Think Think" three times, let

alone with the fanciful explanations that

are sometimes given in AA legend about

what these were supposed to mean.



So to give a few examples out of many:



IBM Archives: THINK Sign

http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/attic2/attic2_207.html

The "THINK" motto was developed by Thomas J. Watson, Sr., three years before he

joined the forerunner of today's IBM in 1914. By the early 1930s, THINK began to

take precedence over other slogans in IBM, and it appeared on signs such as this

in IBM plants and offices, and in company publications, calendars and

photographs all over the world.



http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV2024.html

THINK was a one-word slogan developed by IBM founder Thomas J. Watson, Sr. It

appeared in IBM offices, plants and company publications in the 1920s and in the

early 1930s began to take precedence over other slogans in IBM. It eventually

appeared in wood, stone and bronze, and was published in company newspapers,

magazines, calendars, photographs, medallions -- even New Yorker cartoons -- and

it remained for years the name of IBM's employee publication. You can still find

echoes of Watson's motto in the brand name of IBM's popular notebook computers:

the ThinkPad. This photograph shows a number of THINK signs rendered in a

variety of languages for display by IBM employees around the world.



http://home.comcast.net/~suptjud/IBMMachines.htm



http://www.timewarptoys.com/think.jpg

(on this webpage http://www.timewarptoys.com/gallery.htm )



http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV2184.html

It's 1940 and these 22 young men are operating an electric accounting machine

installation somewhere in IBM. We know it's an IBM installation because visible

in the photograph are an IBM job time recorder (for logging the start and end of

various accounting jobs), one photo of Thomas J. Watson, Sr. and five THINK

signs. Can you spot them?



- - - -



On Jul 9, 2009, at 6:03 PM, John Barton

<jax760@...> wrote:



> THINK, THINK, THINK

>

> This slogan is not found in the BB but was

> adopted by AA members from a sign that came

> with early IBM calculating machines. The sign

> said:

>

> THINK of what you are about to do

>

> THINK of what you are doing

>

> THINK of what you have done

>

> - - - -

>

> J. Lobdell <jlobdell54@...> wrote:

>

> We have been discussing the early AA slogans,

> especially "But for the Grace of God."

>

> But another of the early slogans was also

> mentioned:

>

> This one -- "Think think think" -- was perhaps

> not biblical. It seems to have been an IBM slogan

> put up on a Cleveland AA bulletin board or the

> equivalent ca 1944 much to the chagrin of

> Clarence S., who observed (approximately)

> "Alcoholics don't think -- they emote."

>

> (Mitch K. can probably provide chapter and

> verse on this.)

From Cora Finch, J. Lobdell, Troubled Individual,

and John Lee in Pittsburgh



Arthur Sheehan wrote in an earlier message:



> I don't see any cause and effect association

> between the IBM and AA slogans - it's seems

> like speculation. Is there a non-anecdotal

> source for corroboration that it "... was

> adopted by AA members from a sign that came

> with early IBM calculating machines ..."

>

> T J Watson Sr coined the slogan "Think" in 1911

> long before the forerunner companies evolved

> into the name "International Business Machines"

> in 1924. The slogan consisted simply of the

> single word "Think."



I tried the old indiscriminate-search technique on this problem. Repetition of

the word "think" for emphasis appears early, e.g. a Ben Jonson play from the

1600s, where a character tells another to "think think think think", but of

course that is not in any sense a slogan.



In 1909, in a book on American authors, this sentence appears: "To produce vital

and useful criticism it is necessary to think think think and then when tired of

thinking, to think more." I've seen that exact sentence quoted in at least one

other book (with the author's name--W.C. Brownell).  The phrase "think think

think" or "think think and think" seems to have developed a life on its own over

the next few decades.  It showed up in several letters to the editor in the

1950s-60s.



One 1950s article about IBM made it clear that each sign was just one word, but

described the effect of multiple signs as, "Think . . . Think . . . Think," in

the sense that the occupant of room with several such signs would experience it

as repetitive. So it would be entirely understandable if the previous

literary/expository repetitions of the word combined with the IBM use of

one-word signs to create a slogan.

Cora



- - - -



From: "J. Lobdell" <jlobdell54@...>

(jlobdell54 at hotmail.com)



Arthur Sheehan wrote:



> I don't see any cause and effect association

> between the IBM and AA slogans - it's seems

> like speculation. Is there a non-anecdotal

> source for corroboration that it "... was

> adopted by AA members from a sign that came

> with early IBM calculating machines ..."



It depends on whether one considers Clarence Snyder's recollections (as recorded

by Mitchell K.) as purely anecdotal or as an historical source.  Myself, as an

historian, with a Ph.D. in (Applied) History, and having produced a number of

books based on transcriptions of dictated memoirs, and having some years ago

done at paper for the Oral History Association on the value of such

transcriptions, I'd call Clarence's story of the IBM connection pretty good

evidence -- certainly in the absence of evidence to the contrary.  So -- if not

history, at least an historical source. Of course, we know that even Bill W's

accounts of the early history of AA -- even Dr. Bob's DLD -- are subject to

question (and Jimmy B. recorded that Dr Bob, perhaps not counting the beer Bill

gave him, counted his sobriety from June 15 not June 10 -- hearsay but not

anecdotal).



- - - -



From: Troubled Individual <addicttedone@...>

(addicttedone at yahoo.com)



I got sober in a clubhouse here in Atlanta, many years ago I'm quite thankful

for, and they had to sign "THINK THINK THINK" posted on one of their walls.

Right across the room was a sign saying "DON'T THINK, DONT DRINK, and GO TO

MEETINGS." I used to sit and stare at those two signs wondering how these

"fools" could site here day after day, week after week and not realize this

oxymoron. Don't worry, I got better and I'm not sure if the signs still remain

in the building like that or not. Let's hope so.



- - - -



From: "johnlawlee" <johnlawlee@...>

(johnlawlee at yahoo.com)



"Think the drink through" is heard regularly at AA meetings, but it's absent

from the AA literature. It's another popular cliche scattered by treatment

centers. There's a large group of people who can think the drink through--these

people are called "non-alcoholics". A serviceable lay definition of "alcoholic"

would be "someone who cannot reliably think the drink through."  The Big Book

assures us, at page 24, that a real alcoholic cannot bring into consciousness

with sufficient force the humiliation of a week ago.  Page 43 indicates that, at

certain times, the real alcoholic has no effective defense against the first

drink. He has placed himself beyond human power, so that memory, knowledge, fear

and fellowship will not protect him from the first drink. If drunks were able to

reliably think the drink through, they'd never need the Steps or spiritual

experience, only a desire to stop drinking.

John Lee

Pittsburgh

If you have a copy of the March 1, 1941

Saturday Evening Post magazine with Jack

Alexander's article, one of the photos is

of a staged meeting (its caption ends with

"... A typical clubhouse discussion group").



Prominently displayed on the wall above a

fireplace mantle behind the attendees facing

forward (i.e. Ruth Hock, Bill W, Dick S and

Lois W) is a rather large sign (possibly

needlepoint embroidery) that reads "But for

the Grace of God."



Cheers

Arthur

Thank you Jared



It's refreshing in a history forum to see a

posting with citation and source reference

rather than assertion and editorial. The

following citation is from the very first

chapter drafted by Bill W in preparation for

the publication of the Big Book. That chapter

is  "There Is a Solution" (pgs 24-25):



"When this sort of thinking is fully established

in an individual with alcoholic tendencies, he

has probably placed himself beyond human aid,

and unless locked up, may die or go permanently

insane. These stark and ugly facts have been

confirmed by legions of alcoholics throughout

history. But for the grace of God, there would

have been thousands more convincing demonstrations.

So many want to stop but cannot.



====================



AA's popular slogan plaques were first published

in 5 Grapevine issues from September-December1956

and February 1957. Four slogans are from the Big

Book: "But for the Grace of God" is from the

chapter "There Is A Solution" (on pg 25) as noted

above.



"Easy Does It," "First Things First" and "Live

and Let Live" are from the chapter "The Family

Afterward" (on pg 135). The slogan "Think,

Think, Think" is a bit of a mystery. Some say

it originated in Cleveland, Ohio in the mid-1940s,

however, its actual source is unknown.



The following is posted on the AA.org web site

at http://aa.org/subpage.cfm?page=287



". Q: What's the history of typical AA slogans

like "First Things First" and "One Day at a Time"?



A. We don't have a great deal of information

about the origins of AA's slogans and acronyms,

but we can provide some sharing and preliminary

information. Many of these slogans, as with

other practices in AA, were simply passed

along verbally to other members, so it is

impossible to know who started using them first.

It is possible that some of the slogans may

have originally stemmed from a part of the

Oxford Group Movement language, but it could

also be that they were original with Bill and

Dr. Bob and the early members.



Members have always inquired as to the origins

of various slogans, and it has always been

difficult to narrow down; in our research, we

discovered a letter written by former GSO

Archivist, Frank M., dated 1989, who responded

to a similar question that was posed to him.

This was Frank's response,



"Your interest in the origins of 'One Day at a

Time' is shared by many of us. Like hand-holding,

however, it's difficult to pin-point the exact

'moment.'"



That is the problem we find with most of our

AA slogans, unfortunately!



We do know, however, that many slogans commonly

heard have been around since the early days of

the Fellowship. In December of 1958 Ruth Hock

(non-alcoholic), who was AA's first secretary,

wrote a response to a similar question concerning

different slogans.  In her reply Ruth wrote:



"Bill [W.] and I first worked together in January

1936 when he had been sober just a little over

one year and at that time 'Easy Does It,' 'Live

and Let Live,' and 'First Things First,' were

part of the daily conversation. They were also

used in the very first drafts of the book, but

probably only Bill himself could tell you where

he picked them up.



"As far as I'm concerned all of the above were

introduced into A.A. by Bill W. himself although

not original with him. "Some of these could have

been used in Oxford Group meetings but there is

no way for sure."



In addition to Ruth's response, page 220 of

Bill W.'s biography, Pass It On, also addresses

this topic:



"Some 'A.A. saws' were also used as long ago as

the late 1930s: 'First Things First,' 'Easy Does

It,' 'Live and Let Live.'  Because these appear

in the first edition of the Big Book (at the end

of the chapter on 'The Family Afterward'), it's

probable that the use of the slogans originated

with Bill and that he brought them with him from

Vermont - old saws with new teeth. ."



====================



In regard to the Traditions, they are to the

Legacy of Unity what the Steps are to the Legacy

of Recovery and what the Concepts are to the

Legacy of Service - namely, the core spiritual

principles of the Three Legacies. The Traditions

are a body of spiritual principles whose objective

is unity not lock-step conformity. Likewise, by

explicit statement in its own Charter (Article

12), the Conference does not function in a

governance role.  The Conference Charter has 12

Articles, the 12th of which is also called "The

General Warranties of the Conference" or just

"Warrantees" for short. The 6 Warrantees in

Article 12 are a condensed version of the

Traditions to ensure that the Conference always

functions in the spirit of the Traditions.



In 1962, the General Warranties of the Conference

formed Concept 12 of the Twelve Concepts for

World Service.



The slogans are most definitely Conference-

approved. The 1952 Conference approved a list

(proposed by a special Trustees Committee on

Literature) of the then existing literature

items that were to be retained with Conference-

approval. Among those items were the Big Book

and the Long form of the Traditions (previously

released as a pamphlet in 1947). The 5 slogan

signs have been available as published AA

literature from the Grapevine for decades.



How someone wishes to view or interpret the

word "addiction" or any other term is a matter

of their individual conscience and it is

neither right nor wrong based on any notion

of Conference-approval - "Conference-approval"

has never been intended to be used in that

manner.



Literature is Conference-approved, thought is not.



Bill W was very explicit in "AA Comes of Age"

in stating: "For example, in its original "long

form," Tradition Four [sic - should be Tradition

Three] declares: 'Any two or three gathered

together for sobriety may call themselves an

A.A. group, provided that as a group they have

no other affiliation.' This means that these

two or three alcoholics could try for sobriety

in any way they liked. They could disagree with

any or all of A.A.'s principles and still call

themselves an A.A. group. But this ultra-liberty

is not so risky as it looks. In the end the

innovators would have to adopt A.A. principles

- at least some of them in order to remain sober

at all. If, on the other hand, they found something

better than A.A., or if they were able to improve

on our methods, then in all probability we would

adopt what they discovered for general use

everywhere. This sort of liberty also prevents

A.A. from becoming a frozen set of dogmatic

principles that could not be changed even when

obviously wrong. ."



Cheers



Arthur







-----Original Message-----



From: J. Lobdell

Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 10:15 AM

Subject: RE: "Powerless over people places things"



"There but for the Grace of God [goes old John Bradford]" is the first use I

know (1550?) of the phrase in English -- said, by a former paymaster of the

King's forces at Calais who had embezzled funds (possibly for drinking), but

been converted by Hugh Latimer and made amends and restitution, on seeing

another embezzler of the King's funds being taken away to execution.  There

is no particular question of predestination, nor is the phrase peculiar to

alcoholics -- in fact it was popularized long before the word "alcoholic"

existed.  It refers quite simply to the fact that we (whoever we may be)

don't recover (from any sin or sickness) by our own unaided efforts -- and

I'm not sure that should be contentious in A.A., or elsewhere.







> From: jennylaurie1@...

> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:46:39 +0000

> Subject: RE: "Powerless over people places things"

>

>

> Among the plethora of ideas discussed by our pioneers - for example,

establishing "AA" hospitals - about the only one to survive was the decision

to publish the Big Book. Early members were aware that the message could be

diluted, distorted and misrepresented when passed on orally. The slogans

which adorn the walls at so many AA meetings are not Conference-approved;

though three of them appear at the end of chapter nine in the Big Book, viz:

First Things First; Live and Let Live; Easy Does It. One slogan - There but

for the grace of God - is contentious, suggesting as it does that some

alcoholics are chosen for salvation and others condemned. Likewise, the

Serenity Prayer is not Conference-approved, though undoubtedly an

established part of our oral tradition. So, unless tested by the

Fellowship's group conscience as expressed at Conference, expressions heard

at meetings, like e.g. Keep it simple stupid, should be taken with a pinch

of salt. Some are more helpful than others; some are contrary to our

tradition, e.g. "It (addiction) is all the same illness."

>

> Laurie A.







> From: jdf10487@...

> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:36:02 -0700

> Subject: RE: "Powerless over people places things"



> AA has a rich oral tradition which includes many sayings, slogans and

common expressions.

>

> Some of these expressions can be found in the AA literature and others

can't.  Regardless of that fact, these saying and slogans are as much a part

of authentic AA History as the coffee pot.  AA is as AA does, and AA does

use sayings and slogans. It always has and I believe that it always will.

>

> Sincerely, Jim F.







> From: johnlawlee@... <johnlawlee@...>

> Subject: RE: "Powerless over people places things"

> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 4:56 AM

>

> The topic is "powerless over people, places and things", wnich cliche is

absent from the basic literature of AA, NA and Al-Anon.  The topic is not

"people, places and things."  According to the Unofficial Big Book Search

Engine, the word "people" is found on 78 pages of the basic text.  "People"

isn't the topic either. You won't find the cliche "powerless over people

places things" in the basic literature of AA. You won't find it in the basic

literature of NA or Al-Anon either. You won't locate the recommendation

"avoid people places and things" in the basic literature of those three

fellowships, although that nugget is heard frequently in rehabs, AA meetings

and NA meeetings. You'll hear the chanting of "keep coming back" at

virtually every AA meeting, but that's not in the basic text of AA either. I

don't believe you'll find it in the Bigger Book either [the one with the

black cover and ribbon].   Christ never said, "Keep coming back." He

> said, "Heal the sick...Freely have you received, freely give."   In AA we

carry the message to those who still suffer.

> Pass it on.

> John Lee

> Pittsburgh







> From: Robert Stonebraker <rstonebraker212@ comcast.net>

> Subject: Re: "People places things"

> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 5:50 PM

>

> The inquiry comes from the previous message concerning the validity of page

> Dr. Paul's quote from page 417.

>

> The answer:

>

> The stories in the second section of the book are not considered as the

> clear cut directions. Please read page 29: "Further on clear cut

directions

> are given showing how we recovered. These are followed by forty-two

> personal experiences. "

>

> The personal experiences are not the clear cut directions.

>

> Bob S.







> From bridgetsbuddy

> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:39 AM

> Subject: Re: "People places things"

>

> What about this one? "When I am disturbed, it is because I find some

person,

> place, thing, or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me,

> and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or

> situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment."

> ("Acceptance was the Answer," BB, 4th Ed., p.417) No?

>

Just out of curiousity, since the short form

of the Serenity Prayer is given at the end of

the chapter on Step Three in the book "Twelve

Steps and Twelve Traditions," and that book

is conference approved, wouldn't that

automatically make this version of the short

form of the Serenity Prayer a conference

approved text?



Bob Wilson