Which are The Forgotten Steps?  I am told they are six and seven, but a
search on the Grapevine's digital archives turns up an article from the
June 1952 issue and it's on Steps Eight and Nine.

I have seen reference to a pamphlet apparently out of print with that title
and I understand it was on Steps Eight and Nine?

Any help out there?

Tommy H

Looking for information on a Mr. Coxe (in AA before 9/1940)his sponsor  is
referred to as only D.
Is this possibly Capt Coxe
1938, April Capt. Coxe NY Unknown ... is a listing in AA chronology
The Name is found in a big red.
yours in service
Shakey Mike G


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have a question, largely based upon reading Ebby: The Man Who
Sponsored Bill W. by Mel B.  The book indicates that Ebby appeared
before Cebra's father, Judge Graves, and was told that he "was due
back in Bennington for trial Monday morning" (p. 57).  Was Judge
Graves the same judge on Monday who "gave Ebby a lecture" and then
released him to Rowland?  I've searched through previous posts and
haven't found an answer to this question.

Chris
Raleigh, NC

Jim Burwell had indicated in "THE VICIOUS CYCLE" that the AA literature
committee had
a sum population of 60 at the time of the writing of the Big Book.  That seems
like
a likely number.  If Bill said 100 and Jim said 60, then that leaves 40
non-authors
in surrounding areas (Youngstown, Detroit, Buffalo, New Jersey, etc.)

pg 228

Around this time our big A.A. book was being written, and it all became much
simpler;
we had a definite formula that some sixty of us agreed was the middle course for
all
alcoholics who wanted sobriety, and that formula has not been changed one iota
down
through the years.

I would be interested in the list of authors.

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Mel Barger
   To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 12:13 PM
   Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] The first one hundred


   Hi Anders,
   I do know that the names of the authors of the Big Book's first edition
   are bouncing around somewhere, and I'm sure somebody will send them. Of
   course there are not 100, although it's believed that at least this number
   could be called sober by the time the Book was published in April 1939.
   There was only one woman and she did not stay sober, although her story was
   pretty good and served its purpose.
   My wife and I are going to Kolding, Denmark, this week, where I'll be
   doing some AA sessions this Saturday, July 1st, at the request of Bent C.
   Do the Swedes ever visit the Danes? Please send me your Snail Mail address
   and I'll send you that Big Book list if I can find it.
   All the best,
   Mel

   ~~~~~~~~ Mel Barger melb@accesst ~~~~~~~~ Mel Barger melb@...
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: "anders byström" <serenityodaat@...>
   To: <AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 8:24 AM
   Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] The first one hundred

   Hiya group!

   Ive been searching an answer to my question in this gruop´s archives, but
   havent had any luck, so here goes...

   does anyone know where i can find the names of the first one hundred. Or
   if not - maybe how many of them were men and how many women?

   mucho love from Sweden!
   Anders

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

   Yahoo! Groups Links

   __________________________________________________________
   Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com
   9:41:14 AM ET - 6/26/2006





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Folks,
   Mitch is right; there are no definitive lists of the first 100.  But I do
think it's safe to say that there might have been at least 100 by the time
the Big Book came off the press.
   I went to my first AA meeting in California in early October, 1948,
although I didn't start establishing continuous sobiety for another year and
a half.  The third member I met was a man named Eddie McCann who had moved
out there from Akron.  He had nine years by then.  I was thrilled to find
his name in that list of 200 which is floating around, though I don't have a
copy.  It listed him as living in a hotel in Akron.  He was a very good AA
in Ventura, Calif., and I've often wondered what happened to him.
Mel Barger

~~~~~~~~ Mel Barger melb@accesst ~~~~~~~~ Mel Barger melb@...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mitchell K." <mitchell_k_archivist@...>
To: <AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] The first one hundred


> There are lots of lists out there regarding the
> so-called "first one-hundred" in AA. Many of these
> lists are lacking in accuracy, many leave out obvious
> names and some leave out certain segments of either
> NYC or the Akron/Cleveland area.
>
> There is no definitive first 100 list. Many long term
> members I've spoken with have told me that when Bill
> decided to make that magical number up, he not only
> included the spouses who also attended (at least in
> the Akron/Cleveland area) but he also embellished the
> truth by making it a nice round number. I guess it
> wouldn't sound quite impressive if Bill wrote 63
> members and some of their spouses. (note: the 63
> number was an arbitrary one and in no way should be
> taken as an actual count of members)
>
> Shakey Mike from Philly showed me a list of the
> "first" 200 something members and there were many
> glaring omissions from that list. I've seen other
> lists, Richard K. and others. None can be accurate.
>
>
>
> --- anders byström <serenityodaat@...> wrote:
>
>> Hiya group!
>>
>>   Ive been searching an answer to my question in
>> this gruop´s archives, but havent had any luck, so
>> here goes...
>>
>>   does anyone know where i can find the names of the
>> first one hundred. Or if not - maybe how many of
>> them were men and how many women?
>>
>>   mucho love from Sweden!
>>   Anders
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been
>> removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com
> 12:36:16 PM ET - 6/26/2006
>

Hi Anders,
   I do know that the names of the authors of the Big Book's first edition
are bouncing around somewhere, and I'm sure somebody will send them.  Of
course there are not 100, although it's believed that at least this number
could be called sober by the time the Book was published in April 1939.
There was only one woman and she did not stay sober, although her story was
pretty good and served its purpose.
   My wife and I are going to Kolding, Denmark, this week, where I'll be
doing some AA sessions this Saturday, July 1st, at the request of Bent C.
Do the Swedes ever visit the Danes?  Please send me your Snail Mail address
and I'll send you that Big Book list if I can find it.
All the best,
Mel

~~~~~~~~ Mel Barger melb@accesst ~~~~~~~~ Mel Barger melb@...
----- Original Message -----
From: "anders byström" <serenityodaat@...>
To: <AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] The first one hundred


Hiya group!

   Ive been searching an answer to my question in this gruop´s archives, but
havent had any luck, so here goes...

   does anyone know where i can find the names of the first one hundred. Or
if not - maybe how many of them were men and how many women?

   mucho love from Sweden!
   Anders




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








Yahoo! Groups Links









__________________________________________________________
Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com
9:41:14 AM ET - 6/26/2006

The list of 200 I gave to Mitchell K. was given to me by  Harry the Wino,(dos
11/59) my sponsor. It is labeled the 1st 200 AA's. It only  includes Bill W
from NY and several others from the mid west. the rest are  all from Ohio. So,
it may be a list of the 1st 200 who were from the Akron,  Cleveland and
Columbus meetings. Fitz , Hank, Chrys, Bert T and Jimmy are not  listed.
Jimmy Burwell  mentions that when the "first 100" was written by Bill  that"
there were 100 men and women coming and going, mainly going." Maybe  Jimmy's
history of AA is a better representation of How it Was, than was  previously
thought. Just because its listed in AA Conference approved  literature doesn't
make it necessarily so. As people get older their  recollections of what and
when get distorted and, as we all know, Bill W took  poetic license to make a
point.
Yours in Service
Shakey Mike G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There are lots of lists out there regarding the
so-called "first one-hundred" in AA. Many of these
lists are lacking in accuracy, many leave out obvious
names and some leave out certain segments of either
NYC or the Akron/Cleveland area.

There is no definitive first 100 list. Many long term
members I've spoken with have told me that when Bill
decided to make that magical number up, he not only
included the spouses who also attended (at least in
the Akron/Cleveland area) but he also embellished the
truth by making it a nice round number. I guess it
wouldn't sound quite impressive if Bill wrote 63
members and some of their spouses. (note: the 63
number was an arbitrary one and in no way should be
taken as an actual count of members)

Shakey Mike from Philly showed me a list of the
"first" 200 something members and there were many
glaring omissions from that list. I've seen other
lists, Richard K. and others. None can be accurate.



--- anders byström <serenityodaat@...> wrote:

> Hiya group!
>
>   Ive been searching an answer to my question in
> this gruop´s archives, but havent had any luck, so
> here goes...
>
>   does anyone know where i can find the names of the
> first one hundred. Or if not - maybe how many of
> them were men and how many women?
>
>   mucho love from Sweden!
>   Anders
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
>
>

Hiya group!

   Ive been searching an answer to my question in this gruop´s archives, but
havent had any luck, so here goes...

   does anyone know where i can find the names of the first one hundred. Or if
not - maybe how many of them were men and how many women?

   mucho love from Sweden!
   Anders




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A Weird Story of Research About Felicia
__________________________________

Many thanks to Bill Lash for sharing the interview of Felicia. I wish
AAHistoryLovers had existed when Dave and I were researching and writing
Marty Mann's biography! We never came across this interview. And if we'd
even known Bill Lash's name, you can bet we'd have interviewed him.

In fact, we had a lot of trouble locating information about Felicia. People
kept telling us we should try to interview her, but no one could give us an
address or even approximate location. We did find out that Felicia was
related to the McCormick publishing family of Chicago. So, in 1998, fairly
early in our national research, we were browsing through the McCormick Room
of Chicago's main library, and I came across a book with a family tree
pictured. To our great disappointment, Felicia was designated as having died
some years previously. "Well, that's that," we thought.

Later on, a biography of Cissy Patterson, Felicia's mother and also the
famous publisher of the Washington Times, made us realize that Felicia's own
daughter, Ellen, might have some stories about HER mother. But again, we had
no idea where Ellen lived. However, Ellen had married into a Washington, DC
legal family named Arnold.

I vaguely recalled from a couple of years' living in Washington in the 1970s
that a legal firm with the name "Arnold" in it was often in the Washington
Post. "Maybe," I thought, "it's the same Arnold." On a whim, I called
Washington Information, and asked, rather diffidently, if there was such a
legal firm. To my surprise, the answer was immediately "Yes, and here's the
number." Guess Washington Information gets more than one request for that
number!

When I rang the offices, I was promptly connected to a lovely, very
accommodating and knowledgeable woman who knew all the partners. She didn't
have Ellen's address in California, but she had the names and addresses of
Ellen's three sons, Felicia's grandsons, in Wyoming. I randomly picked one,
Joe Arnold, in Laramie, hoping he could lead me to his mother.

Joe picked up the phone. I explained I was looking for his mother, Ellen,
for some stories about Felicia - and how sorry I was that Felicia had died.
Joe asked, "Would you like to speak with her?" I nearly passed out! Felicia
hadn't died at all. She was residing in Laramie in a gracious retirement
home with assisted living. Her grandsons, who adored her, had moved her
there the previous year because she had become too frail to live on her own
in the CT home Bill Lash described. That book in the McCormick Room was all
wet! It was an important early lesson to us to check and double-check all
our facts.

For the rest of the story, see our web site below. We are forever grateful
to Joe Arnold and his wife's wonderful hospitality on my whirlwind trip to
Laramie. Through him, we did indeed connect by phone with Ellen, but she had
no information about Felicia beyond what we already knew.

Shalom -    Sally

Rev Sally Brown                                   coauthor: A Biography of
Mrs. Marty Mann
Board Certified Clinical Chaplain             The First Lady of Alcoholics
Anonymous
United Church of Christ
                                                                     
www.sallyanddavidbrown.com
1470 Sand Hill Road, 309
Palo Alto, CA  94304
Phone/Fax:  650 325 5258
Email: rev.sally@...

To Bill Lash et al:
   I appreciate your sending us this interview with Felicia.  I had
interviewed her in 1980 in the same little home described here and also had
correspondence with her.  She was, indeeed, one of the key persons who
helped get the Grapevine off to a good start.  Her first husband had been a
very prominent columnist and her mother had been a well-known and very
controversial owner of newspapers, although I don't think there was much of
the fortune left by the time I interviewed Felicia.  My impression was that
she just had enough income to get by but was grateful for her cozy little
home and what she had found in AA.  Despite frequent bouts with depression,
she was a good AA and represented the fellowship well.
Mel Barger
~~~~~~~~ Mel Barger melb@accesst ~~~~~~~~ Mel Barger melb@...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Lash" <barefootbill@...>
To: <AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 8:55 AM
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Big Book Story Author Interview (2 of 4)


> Interview With the Author of "Stars Don't Fall"
> Second in a series of articles on authors of Big Book stories
> AA Grapevine, August 1995
>
> Felicia M. is eighty-nine years old and has been sober for over fifty-one
> years; she joined the Fellowship in the fall of 1943, when it was only
> eight
> years old. Her story, "Stars Don't Fall," is in the Third Edition of the
> Big
> Book.
>
> On a clear cold afternoon last January, the managing editor of the
> Grapevine
> and an editorial assistant drove up to the small town in Connecticut where
> Felicia M. lives. We found her modest house on a quiet back lane. Several
> big evergreens were in the front yard; in the backyard, a bird feeder hung
> from a bare tree. Inside, her house was cozy. A whole row of cookbooks
> filled a shelf over the kitchen door. The walls were hung with
> pictures--western scenes with men and women on horseback, a painting by a
> grandson, a large oil by a well-known abstract painter of the nineteen
> fifties, and some watercolors by Felicia herself, who began painting
> during
> one period when she couldn't write (Felicia is a professional writer). The
> three of us sat in Felicia's small book-lined living room, where the
> winter
> light filtered through the draperies, and Felicia served us coffee and
> cookies as we talked about AA and her recovery from alcoholism.
>
> In her Big Book story, Felicia tells about the turbulent times of her
> drinking: from her chauffeured "self-guided" tour of Europe's wine
> countries
> to being the down-and-out habitué of a Greenwich Village bar, where the
> other customers took to moving their stools to avoid her. Drinking wasn't
> a
> pleasant experience for her; it was, she wrote, like getting a "tap on the
> head with a small mallet." Felicia told us, "I had low self-esteem and
> behaved accordingly--and so of course I got into trouble all the time."
> Her
> analyst was one of the earliest members of the psychiatric profession to
> learn about Alcoholics Anonymous; Felicia explained, "Bill had addressed a
> bunch of shrinks, you see, and my analyst heard him. She said to me,
> 'You've
> been coming here either drunk or hungover for a year. And I think these
> people have something.'" The psychiatrist gave Felicia the Big Book to
> read
> and sent her to meet a man named "Mr. W."
>
> Bill W. suggested that Felicia meet Marty M., the first woman to get--and
> stay--sober in AA. Marty became Felicia's sponsor: "She was my sponsor
> until
> the day she died. I still miss her very much." When Felicia was sober less
> than a year, she wrote a short piece for the first issue of this magazine,
> in June 1944 (she was then known as Felicia G.). Over the years, she wrote
> a
> number of articles for the Grapevine and worked for a time, without pay,
> reading and editing manuscripts. During the 1970s, she was active on the
> Grapevine's Editorial Advisory Board.
>
> Felicia has written both novels and nonfiction. She published several
> novels
> while she was still drinking, as recounted in the Big Book. She said, "Of
> course I used to write when I was drunk--my writing was quite a mess.
> Since
> getting sober, I've written some things I'm not ashamed of." How did she
> write her Big Book story? "I was down in Florida, and it just came out--I
> didn't correct at all; it just poured out of me."
>
> "My life," Felicia said, "is so much better in sobriety. The main thing is
> that I believe in God and I can appeal to him and I can get results." She
> added, "If I hadn't stopped drinking, I'd be dead: if you had buried me
> with
> an acorn in my mouth, I'd have raised an oak tree by now."
>
> One of the benefits of Felicia's sobriety is that she and her family were
> able to make amends. "The thing that I'm very happy about is that I was
> able
> to make friends with my mother before her death. We forgave each other. My
> daughter and I didn't get along for quite a while but now we're really
> good
> friends--and I get on with my four grandchildren. I've gone out to Wyoming
> to see them, and they've been back East. And this is all because of my
> being
> sober. I can look back six generations in my family and see only fighting
> and hatred, and now it's stopped. I go back and pray for my fighting
> antecedents! I think that's why I was put here--to put an end to the whole
> business of discord in my family, to break the cycle."
>
> Are there any regrets? "I didn't marry the right man. I wasn't able to
> live
> a happy life in that way. I hope that in the next world, I can do it."
>
> The process of change hasn't stopped simply because Felicia has been sober
> so long. She tries to go to a meeting a week, and she stopped smoking
> "fairly recently." She still battles what she called in the Big Book "my
> mortal enemy--the inner me." She said, "I've always had trouble with my
> temper and with speaking out. I remember Bill had a room in the old Hell's
> Kitchen clubhouse on Forty-Fifth Street, and one day over there I lost my
> temper and I went for this woman--actually went for her. She started
> crying
> and Bill just comforted her and said nothing to me. I was very ashamed.
> Oh!
> I still remember it. I need the 'soft word that turneth away wrath.' I'm
> still working on that. I'm trying to learn to be tolerant and
> understanding
> of those who differ with me."
>
> As we were preparing to leave, Felicia told us, "I don't know what more I
> can say. I can only tell you the difference between then and now: I have a
> belief in God. My life is happy."
>
> FELICIA M.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com
> 11:57:29 AM ET - 6/25/2006
>

Interview With the Author of "Stars Don't Fall"
Second in a series of articles on authors of Big Book stories
AA Grapevine, August 1995

Felicia M. is eighty-nine years old and has been sober for over fifty-one
years; she joined the Fellowship in the fall of 1943, when it was only eight
years old. Her story, "Stars Don't Fall," is in the Third Edition of the Big
Book.

On a clear cold afternoon last January, the managing editor of the Grapevine
and an editorial assistant drove up to the small town in Connecticut where
Felicia M. lives. We found her modest house on a quiet back lane. Several
big evergreens were in the front yard; in the backyard, a bird feeder hung
from a bare tree. Inside, her house was cozy. A whole row of cookbooks
filled a shelf over the kitchen door. The walls were hung with
pictures--western scenes with men and women on horseback, a painting by a
grandson, a large oil by a well-known abstract painter of the nineteen
fifties, and some watercolors by Felicia herself, who began painting during
one period when she couldn't write (Felicia is a professional writer). The
three of us sat in Felicia's small book-lined living room, where the winter
light filtered through the draperies, and Felicia served us coffee and
cookies as we talked about AA and her recovery from alcoholism.

In her Big Book story, Felicia tells about the turbulent times of her
drinking: from her chauffeured "self-guided" tour of Europe's wine countries
to being the down-and-out habitué of a Greenwich Village bar, where the
other customers took to moving their stools to avoid her. Drinking wasn't a
pleasant experience for her; it was, she wrote, like getting a "tap on the
head with a small mallet." Felicia told us, "I had low self-esteem and
behaved accordingly--and so of course I got into trouble all the time." Her
analyst was one of the earliest members of the psychiatric profession to
learn about Alcoholics Anonymous; Felicia explained, "Bill had addressed a
bunch of shrinks, you see, and my analyst heard him. She said to me, 'You've
been coming here either drunk or hungover for a year. And I think these
people have something.'" The psychiatrist gave Felicia the Big Book to read
and sent her to meet a man named "Mr. W."

Bill W. suggested that Felicia meet Marty M., the first woman to get--and
stay--sober in AA. Marty became Felicia's sponsor: "She was my sponsor until
the day she died. I still miss her very much." When Felicia was sober less
than a year, she wrote a short piece for the first issue of this magazine,
in June 1944 (she was then known as Felicia G.). Over the years, she wrote a
number of articles for the Grapevine and worked for a time, without pay,
reading and editing manuscripts. During the 1970s, she was active on the
Grapevine's Editorial Advisory Board.

Felicia has written both novels and nonfiction. She published several novels
while she was still drinking, as recounted in the Big Book. She said, "Of
course I used to write when I was drunk--my writing was quite a mess. Since
getting sober, I've written some things I'm not ashamed of." How did she
write her Big Book story? "I was down in Florida, and it just came out--I
didn't correct at all; it just poured out of me."

"My life," Felicia said, "is so much better in sobriety. The main thing is
that I believe in God and I can appeal to him and I can get results." She
added, "If I hadn't stopped drinking, I'd be dead: if you had buried me with
an acorn in my mouth, I'd have raised an oak tree by now."

One of the benefits of Felicia's sobriety is that she and her family were
able to make amends. "The thing that I'm very happy about is that I was able
to make friends with my mother before her death. We forgave each other. My
daughter and I didn't get along for quite a while but now we're really good
friends--and I get on with my four grandchildren. I've gone out to Wyoming
to see them, and they've been back East. And this is all because of my being
sober. I can look back six generations in my family and see only fighting
and hatred, and now it's stopped. I go back and pray for my fighting
antecedents! I think that's why I was put here--to put an end to the whole
business of discord in my family, to break the cycle."

Are there any regrets? "I didn't marry the right man. I wasn't able to live
a happy life in that way. I hope that in the next world, I can do it."

The process of change hasn't stopped simply because Felicia has been sober
so long. She tries to go to a meeting a week, and she stopped smoking
"fairly recently." She still battles what she called in the Big Book "my
mortal enemy--the inner me." She said, "I've always had trouble with my
temper and with speaking out. I remember Bill had a room in the old Hell's
Kitchen clubhouse on Forty-Fifth Street, and one day over there I lost my
temper and I went for this woman--actually went for her. She started crying
and Bill just comforted her and said nothing to me. I was very ashamed. Oh!
I still remember it. I need the 'soft word that turneth away wrath.' I'm
still working on that. I'm trying to learn to be tolerant and understanding
of those who differ with me."

As we were preparing to leave, Felicia told us, "I don't know what more I
can say. I can only tell you the difference between then and now: I have a
belief in God. My life is happy."

FELICIA M.

Hi Tracy,
   My feeling is that both the Big Book account and Peabody's examples were
hearsay.  It's possible that Peabody didn't really know who the two
gentlemen were.  But I think both Bill and Peabody were trying to establish
how tenacious alcoholism is and how it stays as a latent threat even after
years of abstinence.
   We don't really need these stories anymore because we have the long
experience of AA to show us that they were based on truth, however hazy the
origins.  We see examples of AA members who pick up after years of sobriety
and the outcomes are usually very bad.  As a "Man of Eighty" with 56 years'
sobriety, I'm more convinced than ever that Bill and Peabody were right.
Mel Barger
~~~~~~~~ Mel Barger melb@accesst ~~~~~~~~ Mel Barger melb@...
----- Original Message -----
From: "tflynn96" <flynn22896@...>
To: <AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 3:45 PM
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] "Man of thirty" on page 32 of the Big Book


Hello to all,

This question is regarding the "man of thirty" described on pg 32 of
the big book. I have just finished reading the book "Common Sense of
Drinking" by Richard Peabody. I am under the impression and it has
been suggested that the "man of thirty" story was adapted from that
book. There was one story on pg 37 speaking of a man 36 yrs old and
had been drinking for 16 yrs and another on pg 123 regarding a man
who gave up drinking to make a million dollars.

Neither one of them match the story in the book. The story on pg 123
is the one that most closely matches the story in the book. The big
discrepancy in the story is the amount of sobriety this man had
(full text below). The big book speaks of 25 years of sobriety and
the other states he had 5 years sober.

My questions are:
1.Does anyone the "who" the actual man either book was referring to?
2.Was the story taken from CSoD or was he someone that was an
   acquaintance of one of the early members?
3.Was the story in the BB a combination of both pg 37 and 123 along
   with a misquote or was it more like a generalized idea that came
   from CSoD along with "artistic license" while writing the BB (like
   the 100 men and women statement)?

My assumption is they read the book, kind of jumbled up the 2
stories, put in 25 years to dramatize it and at the same time smash
home the fact that "once an alcoholic always an alcoholic". That is
just my assumption and I am not a historian. Does anyone have any
other information regarding or can verify my assumption? Thank you
all in advance for your time.

With Sincerity
Tracy F,
Chicago

"Some years ago there lived a man who decided to give up drinking
until he could make a million dollars, at which time he intended to
drink in moderation. It took him 5 years - of sobriety - to make the
million; then he begins his "moderate" drinking. In two or three
years he lost all his money, and in another three he died of
alcoholism." From Common Sense of Drinking by Richard Peabody.










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11:47:04 PM ET - 6/21/2006

Does anyone know the exact or approximate date that Bill W. and Hank P. first
met with
Kenneth Payne at Reader's Digest in the fall of 1938?  According to AACA, this
is when
they were told that Reader's Digest would probably be interested in writing a
story about
AA and the book they were trying to publish.  Thanks for the help.

(For those of you who don't know, Bill W. [after a failed business
deal in Akron OH] called Rev. Walter Tunks who gave him 10 phone
numbers because Bill was looking for an Oxford Group member who
knew of a drunk Bill could help.  Bill called all 10 numbers but
found no drunk.  One of the 10 calls he made referred him to
another name & number, that of Henrietta Seiberling, who got Bill
in touch with Dr. Bob. - Just Love, Barefoot Bill)

A.A. Is Religion With Feet on Ground
AA Grapevine, July 1948

In a sermon recently delivered in St. Paul's Episcopal Church, Akron,
Ohio, Rev. Walter F. Tunks, D.D. said:

"Therein the patient must minister to himself. But ministering to
one's self isn't enough! Many of you who have tried it, know that!
This week I attended a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. If you want
to see a religion with its feet on the ground, still working miracles
through the power of God, get in touch with that earnest group that
is lifting men and women out of the gutter and restoring them to
lives of usefulness. But as one of them said the other night, 'Take
God out of our group, and we have nothing left but human fellowship,
and that isn't enough'! Over the place where I stood to speak hung a
motto of the group with its terse reminder, 'But for the grace of
God--' Maybe alcohol isn't your problem. But whatever your weakness
is, you will never overcome it by flexing your own muscles. We can't
swing up a rope attached to our own belt straps. All our human
efforts fail until they are anchored in the rock that is higher than
I."

Akron, Ohio

Hello to all,

This question is regarding the "man of thirty" described on pg 32 of
the big book. I have just finished reading the book "Common Sense of
Drinking" by Richard Peabody. I am under the impression and it has
been suggested that the "man of thirty" story was adapted from that
book. There was one story on pg 37 speaking of a man 36 yrs old and
had been drinking for 16 yrs and another on pg 123 regarding a man
who gave up drinking to make a million dollars.

Neither one of them match the story in the book. The story on pg 123
is the one that most closely matches the story in the book. The big
discrepancy in the story is the amount of sobriety this man had
(full text below). The big book speaks of 25 years of sobriety and
the other states he had 5 years sober.

My questions are:
1.Does anyone the "who" the actual man either book was referring to?
2.Was the story taken from CSoD or was he someone that was an
   acquaintance of one of the early members?
3.Was the story in the BB a combination of both pg 37 and 123 along
   with a misquote or was it more like a generalized idea that came
   from CSoD along with "artistic license" while writing the BB (like
   the 100 men and women statement)?

My assumption is they read the book, kind of jumbled up the 2
stories, put in 25 years to dramatize it and at the same time smash
home the fact that "once an alcoholic always an alcoholic". That is
just my assumption and I am not a historian. Does anyone have any
other information regarding or can verify my assumption? Thank you
all in advance for your time.

With Sincerity
Tracy F,
Chicago

"Some years ago there lived a man who decided to give up drinking
until he could make a million dollars, at which time he intended to
drink in moderation. It took him 5 years – of sobriety – to make the
million; then he begins his "moderate" drinking. In two or three
years he lost all his money, and in another three he died of
alcoholism." From Common Sense of Drinking by Richard Peabody.

Interview With the Author of "Doctor, Alcoholic, Addict"
First in a series of articles on authors of Big Book stories
AA Grapevine, July 1995

Dr. Paul O.'s story, "Doctor, Alcoholic, Addict" is published in the Third
Edition of the Big Book; his remarks on acceptance, which appear on pages
449 and 450, have been helpful to many AA members over the years. This
interview was conducted by telephone to Dr. Paul's home in California.

How did you come to write the story that's in the Big Book?

The editor of the Grapevine--a woman named Paula C.--was also the
chairperson of the committee to review the stories. She wrote to tell me
that the magazine was going to use an article I'd written on why doctors
shouldn't prescribe pills for alcoholics. So she knew my writing a little
bit and she asked me if I had a dual problem and would I be willing to write
an article about it for consideration in the Big Book. My reaction to that
was the same as my reaction when it was suggested I come to AA--I thought it
was one of the dumbest ideas I'd ever heard and I ignored her letter. Later
on she called and asked for the article, and I lied and said I hadn't had
time to write it. She extended the deadline and called me a second time. I
had a gal working in the office with me who was in the program, and she
thought it would be nice to have typed a story that might end up in the Big
Book, so she said to me, "You write it, I'll type it, and we'll send it in."
So that's what we did. But by that time they had done another printing of
the Second Edition, and I thought, Fine, that means they won't use it. But
Paula said she liked it and the Grapevine published it with the title
"Bronzed Mocassins" and an illustration of a pair of bronze mocassins.
Eventually it was put in the Big Book, but the title was changed, and my
guess is that they wanted to show that an alcoholic could be a professional
and be an addict, but that wouldn't make him not an alcoholic. It worked
well but maybe it overshot the mark, and now one of the most uncomfortable
things for me is when people run up to me at a meeting and tell me how glad
they are the story is in the book. They say they've been fighting with their
home group because their home group won't let them talk about drugs. So they
show their group the story and they say, "By God, now you'll have to let me
talk about drugs." And I really hate to see the story as a divisive thing. I
don't think we came to AA to fight each other.

Is there anything you regret having written in your story?

Well, I must say I'm really surprised at the number of people who come up to
me and ask me confidentially if what they've heard on the very best
authority--usually from their sponsor--is true: that there are things in my
story I want to change, or that I regret having written it, or that I want
to take it out because it says so much about drugs, or that I've completely
changed my mind that AA is the answer or even that acceptance is the answer.
I've also heard--on the best authority!--that I've died or gotten drunk or
on pills. The latest one was that my wife Max died and that I got so
depressed I got drunk. So, is there anything I'd like to change? No. I
believe what I said more now than when I wrote it.

Do you think that your story might help those who are dually addicted?

I think it does. I think the story makes clear the truth that an alcoholic
can also be an addict, and indeed that an alcoholic has a constitutional
right to have as many problems as he wants! But I also think that if you're
not an alcoholic, being an addict doesn't make you one. The way I see it, an
alcoholic is a person who can't drink and who can't use drugs, and an addict
is a person who can't use drugs and can't drink. But that doesn't mean that
every AA meeting has to be open to a discussion of drugs if it doesn't want
to. Every meeting has the right to say it doesn't want drugs discussed.
People who want to discuss drugs have other places where they can go to talk
about that. And AA is very open to giving the Steps and Traditions to other
groups who want to use them. I know this from my own experience, because I
wrote to the General Service Office and got permission to start Pills
Anonymous and Chemical Dependency Anonymous. I did that when I was working
in the field of chemical dependency. We started groups but I didn't go to
them because I get everything I need from AA. I don't have any trouble
staying away from talking about drugs, and I never introduce myself as an
alcoholic/addict.

I'm annoyed--or maybe irritated is a better word--by the people who keep
insisting that AA should broaden to include drugs and addictions other than
alcohol. In fact I hear it said that AA should change its name to Addicts
Anonymous. I find that a very narrow-minded view based on people's personal
opinions and not on good sense. History tells us that the Washingtonians
spread themselves so thin they evaporated. Jim B. says the greatest thing
that ever happened in AA was the publication of the Big Book, because it put
in writing what the program was and made it available all over the world. So
wherever you go it's the same program. I don't see how you could change the
program unless you changed the book and I can't see that happening.

It's a question of singleness of purpose?

That singleness of purpose thing is so significant. It seems to be working;
why would we change it? I can't think of any change that would be an
improvement.

Nowadays drunks seem to come to meetings already dried out, but that wasn't
always the case.

No, it wasn't. You don't get Twelfth Step calls as dramatic as they used to
be. Now I find that if you're called upon to make a Twelfth Step call, it'll
be on somebody who is in the hospital. You find out when they're available
and not in some other kind of meeting, and make an appointment. But this
might change as the number of treatment programs begins to fade out.

I used to make "cold turkey" calls, where the alcoholic hadn't asked for
help. One time I went to see this guy who was described to me as a big husky
fellow. He was holed up in a motel. I found out from the manager of the
motel that he was on the second floor, and as I was walking up the outside
stairs to get to his place, I thought to myself, if this guy comes charging
out the door, he could easily throw me over the stair railing and I'd end up
on the concrete. So I thought, well, the good news is I'd probably be one of
AA's first martyrs. Then I thought, yeah, but I'd be an anonymous martyr. I
made the call anyhow, and he got sober for a while.

In your Big Book story, you say that acceptance is the key to everything. I
wonder if you've ever had a problem accepting what life hands you.

I think today that my job really is to enjoy life whether I like it or not.
I don't like everything I have to accept. In fact, if everything was to my
specifications and desires there would be no problem with acceptance. It's
accepting things I don't like that is difficult. It's accepting when I'm not
getting my own way. Yes, I find it very difficult at times.

Anything specific?

Nothing major, though it sometimes seems major that I have to accept living
with my wife Max and her ways of doing things! She is an entirely different
person than I am. She likes clutter, I like things orderly. She thinks
randomly and I like structured thinking. We're very, very different. We
never should have gotten married! Last December we were married fifty-five
years.

I guess she knows your thoughts on this matter.

Ad nauseum.

You're still going to meetings?

I'd say five or six a week.

Do you and Max go to meetings together?

Max isn't in AA, she's in Al-Anon and she's still very active in it. But I
go to Al-Anon too, and that helps a great deal, and Max comes to open AA
meetings with me and that helps too. It's kind of like Elsa C. used to say:
when two people have their individual programs, it's like railroad tracks,
two separate and parallel rails, but with all those meetings holding them
together.

Do you think you'd still be married if you hadn't gone to meetings all these
years?

I'm sure we wouldn't. I initially thought that the Serenity Prayer said I'd
have to change the things I couldn't accept. So I thought, well, we can't
get along so it's time to change the marriage. I used to go around looking
for old-timers who would agree with me and say that's what the Serenity
Prayer meant. But Max and I finally made a commitment to the marriage and
stopped talking about divorce and started working our programs. In fact we
tend to sponsor each other, which is a dangerous thing to do, but we help
each other see when we need more meetings, or need to work a certain Step or
something like that.

Do you have, or did you have, a sponsor?

Early on I was talking to a friend of mine, Jack N., who was sober a couple
of months longer than I was. Jack and his wife and Max and I used to go to
AA speaker meetings together. I was telling him how my home group was
nagging at me because I didn't have a sponsor, and on the spur of the moment
I said, "Why don't you be my sponsor?" and on the spur of the moment he said
to me, "I'll be your sponsor if you'll be my sponsor." And I said, "I don't
know if they'll allow that." But we decided to try it and it worked out. He
calls me 'cause I'm his sponsor and I call him 'cause he's my sponsor so I
guess we call each other twice as often. We're still sponsoring each other.
That's been going on for twenty-seven years. He moved to L. A. but we stay
in touch, mostly by phone.

Is there a tool or a slogan or a Step that is particularly useful to you
right now?

Pretty much every morning, before I get out of bed, I say the Serenity
Prayer, the Third Step Prayer, and the Seventh Step Prayer. Then Max and I
repeat those prayers along with other prayers and meditations at breakfast.
And I say those three prayers repeatedly throughout the day.

I grew up thinking that I had to perfect my personality, then I got into AA,
and AA said, no, that isn't the way we do it: only God can remove our
defects. I was amazed to find that I couldn't be a better person simply by
trying harder!

What I've done with a number of problems--like fear and depression and
insomnia--is to treat them as defects of character, because they certainly
affect my personality adversely. With depression, I've never taken any
antidepressants. Instead, with any defect I want to get rid of, I become
willing to have it removed, then I ask God to remove it, then I act like he
has. Now, I know God has a loophole that says he'll remove it unless it's
useful to you or to my fellows. So I tell him I'd like my defect removed
completely, but he can sleep on it, and in the morning he can give me the
amount he wants me to have, and I'll accept it as a gift from him. I'll take
whatever he gives me. I've never done that when he hasn't removed a great
deal of my defect, but I've never done it when he has permanently and
totally removed any defect. But the result is that I no longer fight myself
for having it.

That's a helpful way of seeing things. It makes defects into a gift.

That's right. And it's the Rule Sixty-two business [see Twelve Steps and
Twelve Traditions, p. 149]. It's like Father Terry always says, "Be friendly
with your defects." In fact some poet said, "Hug your demon, otherwise it'll
bite you in the ass." Poets can talk like that.

Has your sponsoring changed over the years?

I do a lot more stuff by telephone. When I'm speaking at a meeting, if I
think of it, I give out my home phone number. So I get a lot of phone calls
from all over the country. People ask me if I'm willing to help them as a
sponsor and I tell them, well, you call me every day for thirty days, or
maybe sixty or ninety or whatever, and then they call me every day, and we
get to know each other, and during that time we find out what it's like to
be relating to each other. It's kind of a probationary period. Then if they
still want me to be their sponsor, we'll go ahead and if they don't, we move
on and there's no loss. And this gets them accustomed to calling, so when
they have a problem, they don't have to analyze it at great depth and decide
if it's bad enough that they should bother me with a phone call. I haven't
personally been doing each Step individually with people as much, but I've
redone all the Steps myself on an average of every five years. And every
time I've done that, my sobriety has stepped up to a new plateau, just like
the first time I did them.

Sometimes people call me 'cause they're feeling in a funk, their sponsor has
moved away or died, or they've moved away from their sponsor, or the
meetings don't mean much anymore. They aren't getting anything out of AA.
And because of my relationship with pills, I've had a lot of people come to
me and say they've got--what do you call it?--a "chemical imbalance."
They're seeing a counselor who says, "Yeah, you're depressed," and the
counselor wants to start them on an antidepressant. My suggestion is, if you
want to do something like that and you haven't done the Steps in a number of
years, do the Steps first. And repeatedly people will do that and decide
they don't need the pills.

When you speak at out-of-state AA meetings, does Max go with you?

I don't go unless she goes.

Why not?

Because I decided I didn't come to AA to become a traveling salesman and be
away from home. So we go where it's a big enough event that they can take us
both. And what's really more fun is if it's a mixed event where Max can
speak, especially if she gets to speak first. She likes that. She likes to
say that I say that she tells a perverted version of my drinking story. Then
she points out that I was the one who was drinking and she was the one who
was sober.

There are many more young people in the Fellowship now. Do you think young
people have special problems because they're getting sober at such an early
age?

People always say they're so glad to see the young people come in, and I
agree, but I'm glad to see the old people come in too. I like to see anybody
get sober. It's hard to say whether your pain is greater than my pain or
mine's greater than yours. I'm sure that young people have problems, but we
all have problems--gays have problems, people who are addicted to other
drugs have problems, single people have problems. I can't think of anything
more of a problem than being a woman alcoholic trying to get sober, married
to a practicing alcoholic male, and with a handful of kids. That must be as
about as big a problem as you can get. Everybody has special problems.

I've said it often and I haven't had any reason to change my mind: the way I
see it, I've never had a problem and nobody will ever come to me with a
problem such that there won't be an answer in the Steps. That gives me a
great deal of confidence. I think the program--the Steps--covers everything
conceivable.

I'm getting way off from what you asked me. I can't give short answers. I
often tell people that the more I know about something, the shorter the
answer, but when I don't know, I just make up stuff.

Did you find it helpful at some point to become familiar with the
Traditions?

I find the Steps easier to understand than the Traditions and the Traditions
easier to understand than the Concepts. In fact, I find the long form of the
Traditions considerably easier to understand than the short form, and I find
that the long form is much more specific on the idea that AA is for
alcoholics and not for just anybody who wants to come in. A lot of people
like that phrase "The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop
drinking," and people interpret that to mean that if you're willing to not
drink, you can call yourself an alcoholic and a member of AA. That's not at
all what it says. I think it means that if you're an alcoholic with a desire
to stop drinking, that's the only requirement for membership.

How many years have you been sober now?

Twenty-seven.

Twenty-seven years of meetings. Have you seen any changes in the way the
meetings are conducted?

All I see is that there are more meetings and bigger meetings and more
variety of meetings. I just love to see AA grow. I enjoy meetings. I've been
to meetings in Singapore and Hong Kong and Japan, but I think the most
interesting was when Chuck C. and Al D. and I were vacationing in the Cayman
Islands and we couldn't find any meetings. We were twelfth-stepping
alcoholics there and decided we all needed a meeting, so we went to the
local newspaper and got some publicity. Then we had a public information
meeting, then we got a regular meeting started. As far as I know, that
meeting is still going.

So you haven't gotten bored by Alcoholics Anonymous.

Well, I thought about that some years back. Why is it that so many people
aren't around any more? Where do they go? It seems to me that most of the
people who leave AA leave because of boredom. I made up my mind I wasn't
going to get bored, and one of the things I do when I get bored, if I can't
think of anything else to do, is to start a new meeting. I've probably
started fifteen or twenty. The most recent one was last November. I got a
couple of friends together and we started a "joy of sobriety" meeting--it's
a one-hour topic discussion meeting and it has to be a topic out of the Big
Book and it has to be on the program and how you enjoy living the program.
It's fast-moving and we just have a lot of fun. It's a great antidote for
depression.

What's the most important thing you've gotten from AA?

This whole thing is so much more than just sobriety. To be sober and
continue the life I had before--that would have driven me back to drink. One
of the things I really like about AA is that we all have a sense of
direction, plus a roadmap telling us precisely how to get there. I like
that. All I want out of AA is more and more and more until I'm gone.

DR. PAUL

Hi

Dr Bob and Sister Ignatia together helped around 5,000 alcoholics
while they were patients in St Thomas Hospital. Dr Bob's main activity
was ministering to them as an attending physician (not as a sponsor)
during their hospital stay (and he never accepted any fee for his
services). For this, in his eulogy at Dr Bob's funeral, Bill W
rightfully called him "the prince of the 12th Steppers."

Dr Bob only lived for 15 years after sobering up. 15 years equals
5,475 days (leap years days not included). While Dr Bob may have
sponsored some of those 5,000 patients, the notion that he sponsored
5,000 members over the course of his 5,475 sober days on this planet
makes for an entertaining fable but little more than that.

Cheers
Arthur

-----Original Message-----
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jan L. Robinson
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 8:31 AM
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] How many whom Dr Bob sponsored stayed
sober?

Mine says 5001, but it's from Alanon.

Jan R.

-----Original Message-----
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mitchell K.
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:55 PM
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] How many whom Dr Bob sponsored stayed
sober?

mine said 2237 but I have to take into account the
U.S. Canadian exchange rate.



--- Jim B <jblair@...> wrote:

> Carl wrote
>  do you have  any information on how many out of the
> five thousand  people
> whom Dr. Bob sponsored stayed sober?
>
> My Ouija board says "3619."
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>







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At 10:46 6/19/2006 , Old Bill wrote:

>Here in Connecticut, I heard it again yesterday. The woman at the
>meeting said she was feeling "mocous" (pronounced: Moe-cuss). It is
>a term generally (but not always) applied to newcomers and indicates
>the jumbled, confused and usually foggy thought patterns that come
>with early sobriety. "Befogged" might be a good synonym.
>
>While this word is used with real regularity in our area and is
>understood by all, I have been unable to find it in any dictionary.
>
>Is this word in use elsewhere aroung the country?
>
>Does anyone know the origins of the word and its use?
>
>Is this an "AA-invented" word?
>
>And, if so, is it the only one you know about?

My lovely wife Jean, dos June 3, 1988, got sober and lived in the New York
City area for 17 years afterwards and says that the word is an A.A. word
and means "Moving slow and out of focus."  The synonym she used is
"befuddled."

It is applied mostly to new comers but someone with a few twenty-four hours
may say, "I'm feeling mocous."

I had not heard the word used here in Baton Rouge A.A. until she used it.

Tommy H in Baton Rouge





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/19/2006 2:52:29 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
schaberg@... writes:

Is  this word in use elsewhere aroung the country?


I heard it a lot when I got sober in NYC in the late '80's.  We  spelled it

MOCUS

"Mentally Out  Cruising Uncharted  Space"

Susan
NYC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here in Connecticut, I heard it again yesterday. The woman at the
meeting said she was feeling "mocous" (pronounced: Moe-cuss). It is
a term generally (but not always) applied to newcomers and indicates
the jumbled, confused and usually foggy thought patterns that come
with early sobriety. "Befogged" might be a good synonym.

While this word is used with real regularity in our area and is
understood by all, I have been unable to find it in any dictionary.

Is this word in use elsewhere aroung the country?

Does anyone know the origins of the word and its use?

Is this an "AA-invented" word?

And, if so, is it the only one you know about?

Best,

Old Bill

Hello All,
   I'm not the most knowledgeable member of this site by any means; and this
would be my first post here, if it passes by our good moderators...My own belief
is that, perhaps the best response to this question would be "enough".

   Dr. Bob sponsored Henry "Clay" Pearce who worked the boilerrooms of the
rubbershops when many of the other Akron members had no jobs and were fallen on
hard times like Dr. Bob himself...he was always willing to give, was described
as one of those who would give you the shirt off his own back if he thought it
would help, he tried on several occaissions to give money to Dr. Bob, he was
described as a "stayer" (I have this from Sue and Smitty who shared several
stories with me)...they laughed and said that whenever he came over he came to
stay,... he, along with co-sponsor Jim Scott, the newsman, and booktrader, also
sponsored by Dr. Bob, who was known to buy baskets of groceries too, together
sponsored  Bill Sipe, a very active twelfth stepper, (I have this from Bill's
son who has his Big Book inscribed with this information), who sponsored Russ
Ickes,  first manager of the Akron Intergroup Office, (I have this from a tape
of Russ's lead at the East Akron Group) who in turn
  sponsored my, now deceased, sponsor John Lietch, a past chairman of our Akron
Intergroup, who worked for many years as Residential Life Co-ordinator at
Interval Brotherhood Home here in Akron and was a longtime Chairman of the
Founders Foundation, which then operated Dr. Bob's Home.  John often told me the
things that "old Russ" had told him.

   He himself said without "Gratitude" we don't stay long...Russ said "Without
Humility there is no Gratitude".  The other thing he told me was perhaps
simplest of all...he said, "These oldtimer's aren't going to be here forever
Woody; someone's got to keep this thing going!"  I know today who he was talking
about; and, if it is God's will, then it will be the fellows that I sponsor, and
those that you sponsor too, who will do just that. And it is my hope that, like
Dr. Bob's sponsee's, there are enough of them to do the job.

   John was the youngest of those sponsored by Russ Icke's with Red Bates being
the oldest...John and Russ and their wives Jackie and Edith were neighbors in
the Trailer Park at Sandy Beach off S. Main Street in the portage lakes here in
Akron, Ohio.
   I notice that there aren't a lot of people in between these few men, but I
know that those between are just not visible to the eye as each of these men
recieved and carried a very important message, faithfully and very succesfully
over a long period of time.  I may be an exception in knowing the history of my
own sponsorship because there were so few between me and Dr. Bob, but the action
of sponsorship, ...the unselfish principal which is illustrated here... is the
same for each of us within this marvelous fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous,
these fellows just stayed awhile at the job and were good enough to pass this
thing along to me.

   A not too knowledgeable,
   but very grateful,
   Woody in Akron


   edgarc@... wrote:
           Carl wrote
do you have any information on how many out of the five thousand people
whom Dr. Bob sponsored stayed sober?

My Ouija board says "3619."
Jim
++++++++++++++++++
Mine says 3627, but it is admittedly an older model and some folks may have
gone out between editions....
Edgar C

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mine says 5001, but it's from Alanon.

Jan R.

-----Original Message-----
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mitchell K.
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:55 PM
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] How many whom Dr Bob sponsored stayed sober?

mine said 2237 but I have to take into account the
U.S. Canadian exchange rate.



--- Jim B <jblair@...> wrote:

> Carl wrote
>  do you have  any information on how many out of the
> five thousand  people
> whom Dr. Bob sponsored stayed sober?
>
> My Ouija board says "3619."
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>







Yahoo! Groups Links

Carl wrote
do you have any information on how many out of the five  thousand people
whom Dr. Bob sponsored stayed sober?

My Ouija board  says "3619."
Jim
++++++++++++++++++
Mine says 3627, but it is admittedly an older model and some folks may  have
gone out between editions....
Edgar C


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mine said 2237 but I have to take into account the
U.S. Canadian exchange rate.



--- Jim B <jblair@...> wrote:

> Carl wrote
>  do you have  any information on how many out of the
> five thousand  people
> whom Dr. Bob sponsored stayed sober?
>
> My Ouija board says "3619."
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>

For the story of Dave B., "Gratitude in Action,"
in Nancy Olson's Biographies of the Authors of the
Big Book Stories:

Henry,

There is a similar URL with Nancy's Big Book bios at:
http://silkworth.net/aabiography/storyauthors.html

Doug
___________________________________

Original Message from:
Tom Hickcox <cometkazie1@...>

Henry, you wrote:

"I would be grateful if anyone can give me any information
on Dave B., the writer of 'Gratitude in Action' in the
fourth edition of the Big Book."
___________________________________

Hi Henry,

There used to be a web site that had the authors
of the stories in the back of the Big Book and a
brief bio, but I tried to access it just now and get
an error message .... Its url was
<http://www.a-1associates.com/AA/Authors.htm>
It was put together by the late owner of this list,
Nancy Olson.
___________________________________

From: Ron Sessions <pqrgs@...>

Try this link - it works for me...

http://www.a-1associates.com/aa/Authors.htm

      Ron

___________________________________

From the moderator:

Al W. in Baltimore, who manages the website for
the East Baltimore AA Group, tells me that they have
recently changed to a new web server, which is case
sensitive.  This has been what has been throwing
things off, and making people get error messages.

Since the new web server is case sensitive, this
means that if you put AA in capital letters, the
url won't work.  If you type it as aa, the url
works just fine.

So we have two good places to look up this set of
Biographies of the Authors of the Big Book Stories:

http://www.a-1associates.com/aa/Authors.htm

http://silkworth.net/aabiography/storyauthors.html

I tested these just now, and both of the above
addresses work.
___________________________________

Nancy Olson (September 18, 1929 - March 25, 2005),
founded the AAHistoryBuffs in March 2000:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryBuffs/

In March 2002, the group changed its name to the
AAHistoryLovers, the name under which it is still
known.  Nancy continued to be the moderator down to
her death from congestive heart failure a little
over a year ago.

Nancy Olson was also the author of a major book on
AA history:  "With a Lot of Help from Our Friends:
The Politics of Alcoholism"

http://hindsfoot.org/kno1.html
http://hindsfoot.org/kno2.html
http://hindsfoot.org/kno3.html

Her book is still considered almost mandatory
reading among the administrators at the U.S. Surgeon
General's Office and at a number of major national
foundations, because it gives the history of how
the Hughes Act was passed, the most successful piece
of alcoholism legislation enacted in the United States
in the twentieth century.  All modern alcoholism
treatment facilities in the United States depend in
part on provisions originally laid out in the Hughes
Act and the other associated bills which Nancy helped
get passed in her capacity as aide to Senator Harold
Hughes.

The story of Nancy's life is given at:

http://hindsfoot.org/nomem1.html
http://hindsfoot.org/nomem2.html
http://hindsfoot.org/nomem3.html
http://hindsfoot.org/nomem4.html

             -- Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)
                Moderator of the AAHistoryLovers

Ron wrote
   It provides a great insight into Peabody's approach.

People who practiced the Peabody approach were described as "being like
industrial engineers as they carried a time sheet with the day laid out with
things to be accomplished."
Jim

The question was, "How many out of the five thousand
people whom Dr. Bob sponsored stayed sober?" Dr Bob
did not "sponsor" five thousand people. That is how
many he helped to detox. Big Book (page 171) says,

"To 1950, the year of his death, he carried the A.A.
message to more than 5,000 alcoholic men and
women, and to all these he gave his medical services
without thought of charge."



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Glenn C., the moderator of the AAHistoryLovers, will
be out of town from June 17 to July 5, 2006:

   I'm going to be staying at various campgrounds where
I won't have access to the internet, so please hold off
on emailing me until I'm back in South Bend.
_________________________________________

   As part of the trip, I will be speaking briefly at the
One-Day History & Archives Gathering on June 24, 2006,
in Lebanon, Pennsylvania, see Message 3351:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAHistoryLovers/message/3351

   Barefoot Bill L. will be on one of the panels at
the conference in Lebanon, Mitchell K. will speak on
"Experiencing AA History: Doing the Steps with Clarence S.,"
and oldtimer Chet H., Hummelstown, Pennsylvania (sober
April 4, 1949) will speak and/or do a question and answer
session.
_________________________________________

   Fiona D. (Ballina, County Mayo, Ireland), who has
helped moderate and take care of the AAHistoryLovers
since it was started in March 2002, and to whom we all
owe a great debt of thanks, will be watching out for
the group for the next two and half weeks.

         Glenn C. (South Bend, Indiana)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi All

I asked Amy Filiatrau, AAWS Archivist, and she replied that the long
form of the Traditions was added to the 12&12 in its 16th printing.

Cheers
Arthur

-----Original Message-----
From: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hickcox
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:51 PM
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] Long form of the Traditions and the 12
& 12

From Tommy H. and Jim S.

At 12:11 5/28/2006 , sobie396@... wrote:

>Does anyone know when the long form of the Traditions
>were added to the 12 & 12, and any reason why they were
>omitted from early  editions, like my June 1973 twelfth
>printing?
  __________________________________

I have a 15th printing and it does _NOT_ have the long form
Traditions.

Tommy H
__________________________________

From: "Jim S." <james.scarpine@...>
Date: Thu Jun 1, 2006 8:12 am

My copy of the 12 & 12, printed in 1967, does not include the "long
form."



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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