On Feb 28, 2005, at 6:09, Ernest Kurtz wrote:

> Just now I am trying to investigate why the Millati Islami (Google it
> in  "") have left "and to another human being" out of their Fifth Step.

> There are other small changes, but that one confuses me, because it
> seems to me that one big way of growing in the program is by way of
> identification.  Anyone out there who might put me in email contact
> with an Islamic AA member -- or with a book/article that contains the
> stories of Islamic AAs?
>
> One individual I contacted on the web told me the 12 Steps were
> "adapted to Muslim sensibilities," but I'm afraid I am too ignorant of that
> faith to have been able to understand his follow-up.

I duly Googled the site and found this rather detailed rationale for
the deletion of the phrase:

------------------

"Millati Islami Step Five     

   5. We admitted to Allah and to ourselves the exact nature of our
wrongs.

 Having had the experience of thoroughly working through the 12 steps
of Alcoholics Anonymous several times, we can say from our own
experience, that we, in Millati Islami, do understand why in Islam,
Muslims are not to go about advertising their faults to other people.

 We have had personal experience and have heard of others who have
shared their personal stories with, what was believed to be a trusted
person, only to later hear some of the most private details of their
life being discussed publicly. And we are well aware of the AA saying
that says we are as sick as our secrets, and this is not without some
validity.

    In Islam, there is no equivalent to the confessional of other faiths.
Or rather, it should be said that we confess our wrongs to and beg for
forgiveness from Allah alone, Who already knows our defects. We also
are required to mend our ways, to repent, and to do good deeds. Our
belief as taught by Rasulillah (the Messenger of God)(pbuh) is that one
sin equals one sin, and we are rewarded several times over for the one
good deed that we do. This is indeed mercy from the only One that can
dispense mercy, Ar-Rahman (Most Merciful), Allah.

 It is also viewed as a good deed for one brother to cover another
brother’s (or sister’s) faults. This does not mean to not share a
guiding word with any of our straying friends. It simply means that we
do not broadcast theirs or our wrongs to anyone. The reason for this is
to not allow justification for doing wrong to grow from having heard of
so and so doing wrong. And then saying “well so and so has not been
struck down dead from his wrong. If he was forgiven, then I will be
forgiven also”

 Of course there is a difficulty with this step, because the Big Book
of Alcoholics Anonymous says on page 72-73 that we must tell someone
our entire life story if we are to stay sober. How can these two
contrary views be reconciled is the question?  I would say with common
sense we have our answer. In our faith of Islam we have brothers and
sisters that we are close to. Or I should say we should make it our
business to get close to the Ummah (community of believers). It is a
command of Allah that we stand together as one unit. There is not much
witnessed of great harmony among the Ummah today because of outside
influences and of varying schools of thought, but as recovering
Muslims, we have no choice but to tighten our ranks. We NEED each
other. We NEED to share our experience and hope with each other. We
NEED to strengthen and understand each other. It is in this way that we
relieve and assist each other, where Allah allows us, in staying clean
and sober. We then fulfill part of our Islamic responsibility and the
command of Allah to stay unified and not allow division to appear in
our ranks.

   Under these life and death circumstances of active drug addiction and
the very real need to stay drug-free, there is no one that we should be
closer to, besides Allah and His Messenger (pbuh), than to each
recovering/repentant Millati Islami brother or sister. To share our
experience strength and hope with each other, in Millati Islami, is our
Step Five.

--------

Arkie
Honolulu

Hi John,

No, I do not know of any AA connections with gnosticism, but AA lore and
some of Bill W's comments in the early 1960s suggest that whenever AA
got into a new area, especially in Asia, and some member explained the
12 Steps, the religious leaders of the region would say, "Yes, that is
what we have always believed and thought."  Since many gnostic teachings
were close to early Christian beliefs, what you say is not surprising.

Just now I am trying to investigate why the Millati Islami (Google it in
"") have left "and to another human being" out of their Fifth Step.
There are other small changes, but that one confuses me, because it
seems to me that one big way of growing in the program is by way of
identification.  Anyone out there who might put me in email contact with
an Islamic AA member -- or with a book/article that contains the stories
of Islamic AAs?

One individual I contacted on the web told me the 12 Steps were "adapted
to Muslim sensibilities," but I'm afraid I am too ignorant of that faith
to have been able to understand his follow-up.

ernie kurtz


John G wrote:

>
> I've been reading the Nag Hammadi gnostic gospels and some commentaries on
> them.
>
> I'm struck at times by parallels between gnostic spiritual practices, and
> the practices of AA.
>
> Does anyone know of any past Gnostic connections to AA?
>
> Thanks....
>
> John G.
>
>
>
> FYI, here are a few gnostic links:
>
> http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html
>
> http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhlalpha.html
>
> http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679724532/qid=1109476701/sr=8
> -1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-4642935-1327921?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375703160/qid=1109476701/sr=8
> -2/ref=pd_csp_2/104-4642935-1327921?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
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A lingering mystery for me has been why the editors of As Bill Sees It
changed the word "victory" to "transcendence" on p. 210, which has the
paragraph containing the Third Step Prayer and an edited version of the
following sentence.

Bill warns us in the Foreword, "Because the quotations used were lifted out
of their original context, it has been necessary in the interest of clarity
to edit, and sometimes to rewrite, a number of them," but I do not see a
need for this change of words.

What was the justification for it?

Tommy in Baton Rouge

I've been reading the Nag Hammadi gnostic gospels and some commentaries on
them.

I'm struck at times by parallels between gnostic spiritual practices, and
the practices of AA.

Does anyone know of any past Gnostic connections to AA?

Thanks....

John G.



FYI, here are a few gnostic links:

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhlalpha.html

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679724532/qid=1109476701/sr=8
-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-4642935-1327921?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375703160/qid=1109476701/sr=8
-2/ref=pd_csp_2/104-4642935-1327921?v=glance&s=books&n=507846



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Charles, for the accurate wording ("The first meeting in
Southern California"). "Pass It On" incorrectly states that LA was the
location of first meeting on the "west coast." On November 21st, 1939,
an AA meeting was held in the Clift Hotel in San Francisco. Ray W., a
New York member, was in SF on a business trip, and had made a contact
with Ted. C., an alcoholic resident at the Duboce Park boarding house
of Zilpa Oram. Ms. Oram had heard about AA on the radio (the Heatter
broadcast?) and had written to the NY office in an effort to get some
help for her tenant.

Arkie
Honolulu

On Feb 24, 2005, at 21:16, Charles Knapp wrote:
>
> Hello from rainy California
>
> Here in Southern California W.W.II had an indirect effect on the
> growth of
> AA. The first meeting in Southern California was held December 19,
> 1939 in
> Los Angeles.  It was started and run by two non-alcoholics.  The first
> real
> meeting run by alcoholics took place March 1940 in the Cecil Hotel in
> downtown LA.  So you might say at that time there were 2 groups and
> approx.
> 10 members.  Within one year there were 8 groups and approx. 500
> members in
> the Southern California.

Ken,

Probably the most up to date idea of true value would
be in the realm of eBay. They always have a variety of
first editions for sale. Tracking prices over a week
or two would give you a pretty good idea. A true first
first is a pretty significant item. Even more so if it
has the original dust jacket and clutch the pearls
honey if there's a notable signature.

A suggestion would be to put the future of the book to
group conscience with an eye to the traditions and see
what you come up with. Many states have active
archivists who might be able to help.

Early editions of the BB are wonderful things. It's a
tangible link with a past that has given a future to
so many. BUT it IS a THING and a thing of value. Many
big resentments have been spawned over much less.

Good luck!

George

PS-I once got a first fourteenth at a garage sale for
twenty five cents. One of my best scrounging days
ever!


--- Ken WENTZ <ayceeman@...> wrote:

>
> Does anyone know how much a "First Printing " First
> edition Big Book would be worth today?
>
> My home group owns one in very good, almost pristine
> condition & may need to have it appraised. Any help
> would be appreciated
>
> Ken W.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
>
>




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--- In AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com, "courtautomation" <courtautomation@e...>
wrote:

>
> I am currently researching influences of Emanuel Swedenborg on AA
> history. I've heard that Carl Jung was a Swedenborgian, and I am
> generally very interested in Carl Jung influences on early and
> current AA thinking. Same goes for Willam James.

With regard to Jung, Swedenborg seems to have increased his respect for modes of
understanding that operate outside of everyday consciousness.  Jung's thinking
about
"exceptional experiences" derives in part from the theories of Swedenborg.

In Mel B's book on spiritual roots, New Wine, he does not mention Swedenborg but
he
does write about Jung's theory of synchronicity.  I'm not sure if Mel B thinks
that the theory
itself was influential with early AA's, or if it is simply a better explanation
than
"coincidence" for some of the occurances in AA's early years.

Synchronicity is a Jungian theory of acausal connection.  Here is what Frank
McLynn, a
Jung biographer, says about the concept:

"In its simplest manifestation, synchronicity involved the coincidence of a
psychic state
with a corresponding and more or less simultaneous external event taking place
outside
the observer's field of perception, at a distance, and only verifiable
afterwards.  A famous
example, often cited by Jung,  was that of Emanuel Swedenborg.  In 1759 he was
staying
with friends in Gothenburg.  At 6 PM on a Saturday evening in July  he had a
vision of the
great fire that  broke out that night in Stockholm. He described the course of
the fire in
detail to his friends, and when couriers arrived from Stockholm on Monday and
Tuesday
with the news,his account was confirmed in every detail.  When asked how he had
known,
he replied that the angels had told him."

Immanuel Kant wrote a short book about  Swedenborg, Dreams of a Spirit-Seeker,
which
Jung read during the time (in his early career) when he was most interested in
psychic
phenomena.  That is apparently where he read the accont about the fire, not
through
reading Swedenborg himself.  So it appears that Swedenborg was an influence,
although
minor.

Hello from rainy California

Here in Southern California W.W.II had an indirect effect on the growth of
AA. The first meeting in Southern California was held December 19, 1939 in
Los Angeles.  It was started and run by two non-alcoholics.  The first real
meeting run by alcoholics took place March 1940 in the Cecil Hotel in
downtown LA.  So you might say at that time there were 2 groups and approx.
10 members.  Within one year there were 8 groups and approx. 500 members in
the Southern California.  By 1945 the AA population grew to 30 groups and
2,000 members.  Interviews of early members contribute the growth to three
things:  (1) rapid transportation with the scarcity of automobiles owned by
alcoholics still licensed to drive and (2) the rationing of gasoline due to
World War II. (3) 1941 Saturday Evening Post article.

Up until about April 1941, the Friday night meeting was the only meeting
around. Some members would drive 2 hour one way just to attend the  meeting
that was held in the Cecil hotel.  Keep in mind there were no freeways back
then. Many of these members paid very close attention on how the meeting was
run and after just a few meeting they tried staring meeting in their
hometowns so they would not have to make that drive each week and use up
their rations.

After the Saturday Evening Post article cane out in March 1941, the New York
office forwarded inquires that came in  from all over Southern California to
the Cecil Hotel meeting.   At the end of the of the meeting each week those
in attendance were ask if any one was from Palm Springs or San Bernardino,
or from this city or that city.  If you raised your hand and gave the town
you were from, you were give a stack of letters told to contact these people
from your city  and tell them about AA.  Almost all held at least one open
meeting in their town to introduce possible alcoholics to AA. As a result
weekly meeting sprang up almost over night.

Hope this helps

Charles from California

Ken,

Five years ago I was offered a 1st edition 1st printing Big Book signed by
Bill Wilson.  Bill wrote a flap message in the book to "My Dear Pete"  in
1951. Looks like the Pete he signed the book for was an AA delegate. As my
name is Pete, I got hooked and bought it after some research.

First, I showed the book to a rare book collector who is in the program and
offered to pay him to appraise the book. He did not charge me and said the
book and message looked valid to him and he said it was simply worth what I
was willing to pay. The bottom third of the flap page had been replaced with
a new piece of paper and he said this is common as many times there was an
Al-Anon message there from Lois and that folks removed and saved those
messages for a number of reasons. He said there simply are not enough of the
early books selling to establish a price structure and he could not price
mine.

Then the book seller, Earl H., an excellent AA archivist in Oklahoma found
some personal letters written in 1961 from a Howard B. to a George (both
delegates) mentioning  the Pete B. on the flap of my book that gave good
insight into some of the AA issues of the day for the delegates.

Earl also said he had the book pages treated so that they would not crack
and they are soft and flexible today. The binding had also been repaired. So
I felt I knew who the owned the book and who restored it and that Bill had
written in it. And Earl said there were 4,650 books printed in the first
printing.

My web research in 1999 showed that a number of 1st edition books were being
sold abroad and that the prices were increasing dramatically. There was a
value at that time of about $2,500 for a good condition 1st edition 1st
printing book. I had trouble finding more than a few for sale at that time.
The prices looked like they doubled if Bill had signed the book and the
price doubled if it had an original dust cover because most original buyers
ripped off the bright red/yellow jacket and threw it away. There is a laser
copy reproduction of the original dust jacket that is on my book.

Last year I color photo copied the inside message and the Contents and sent
it to the curator at Stepping Stones to see what she thought of the Bill
Wilson signature and the message and the book. The signature actually reads
Bill Wilson. She said she had never seen a Bill Wilson signature on a book
as he always signed them just Bill. She felt (after years of seeing Bill's
writings) the handwriting was Bill's on my book from the "My Dear Pete" to
the "Bill" but that someone else had added Wilson and I believe she is
correct. She also said I have a good book and to enjoy and treasure it. She
knew of no easy way to place a value on the book or any of the early Big
Books.

This book fired my interest in AA history and membership in this group. It
somehow gives me a connection I needed to Bill as I read it and share it
with others. Recently I spent some time at Stepping Stones and read all
available on the last 60 days of Bill's life and got to see his Big Book. He
had penciled in on the stories in the CONTENTS who was in and out of future
printings - I assume based on sobriety.

Not sure why you need it appraised, but enjoy and treasure it and keep on
sharing it with all interested.

Peace,

Pete K.
PS: Below is a current listing from AbeBooks.com

       Alcoholics Anonymous
       BILL WILSON]

       Price: US$ 20000.00 [Convert Currency]
       Shipping: [Rates and Speeds]

      Book Description: New York: Works Publishing Company, 1939. Half-title
+ TP + v-viii + half-title + 1-400 + 3 blank leaves, large Octavo. First
Edition, First Printing wth the Original Dust Jacket. " A rare book despite
a press run of 4,650 copies. FIRST PRINTING ISSUE POINTS: Jacket spine and
inside front flap do not have a printing number The binding is red - the
only issue in that color There is gilt lettering on the front cover and the
spine The title page states: "How More Than One Hundred Men Have Recovered
From Alcoholism". Page 154, line 29: "abberations" misspelled Page 234, line
27: repeats line 26 Dust jacket is a bit faded on spine and very slightly
worn an torn. There are some old tape discolorations along the front edge of
the dust jacket, the rear edge of the dust jacket and in the lower left
corner of the rear panel. There is an old library label affixed to the lower
portion of the spine with "616.86 / AAt" written on it. Nevertheless, this a
VERY honest dust jacket. The book has been dustjacketed throughout its life
with bright and completely intact gilt lettering on the front cover and the
spine. The book has three names neatly written on the front flyleaf: "Dr. R.
S. Bookhammer" / "Reve. A. F Greene" / "Rodney Elder". Otherwise, a bright,
clean and totally unmarked copy. ADDITIONAL PHOTOS AVAILABLE UPON REQUEST.
Bookseller Inventory #000120

       Bookseller: Athena Rare Books ABAA (Fairfield, CT, U.S.A.)




----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken WENTZ" <ayceeman@...>
To: <AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] 1st Edition, 7th printing



> Does anyone know how much a "First Printing " First edition Big Book would
> be worth today?
>
> My home group owns one in very good, almost pristine condition & may need
> to have it appraised. Any help would be appreciated
>
> Ken W.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi everyone,

I am searching for any information on the Creation of the 4th step
inventory used in the Big Book,the column one.I have noticed
liabilities and assest checklist in articles,personal stories in the
Big Book,Grapevine articles,and from speakers themselves.The creation
of the column inventory remains a mystery to me.I would appriciate any
information I could get.Thanks for your help.
Tommy H.
N.Carolina

Hi, I am interested in getting more history about the Servicemen who were
stationed in West Germany right after the WWII.   I have put some history
together and am interested in getting more.   The first meetings were held in
Frankfurt in 1948.   All the early groups were Loner groups.   Those men were
very influencial in getting english speaking AA going here on the Continent.  I
have put together a short history of the history over here and if you are
interested I can send a copy to you.  Bill W. was asked to speak at the
Wiesbaden Round-up in 1962 but "graciosly declined".  I am looking for more
history to fill in the empty spaces-years.   Hope to hear from you.   Yours in
AA  Dolores R.





"righteousthug" <righteousthug@...> schrieb:
>
>
>
> It's always amazed me at all the 'coincidences' that led to the
> formation and growth of AA.  Bill picking a minister's name off a
> sign in a hotel lobby in Akron, the minister 'knew someone who knew
> someone' with a drinking problem....  Gives me chills every time I
> think about it.
>
> Anyway, it has also struck me how our entry into WWII played such an
> important part in the growth and spread of the Fellowship.  The Big
> Book having been published a scant 2 years before Pearl Harbor,
> Groups formed in England due to our GIs being stationed there, then
> France as we roared across Europe after June 6.  Italy, North Africa,
> the Pacific Theater - all had AA groups formed by GIs.
>
> Perhaps more importantly, WWII was responsible for so many Americans
> moving around the country, seeking employment in war industry
> factories.  California especially was a large recipient of the war
> diaspora because of the aviation industry.
>
> I was at a meeting in Burnet, Texas a coupla years ago, and someone
> announced that the Mason Group (~40 miles down the road) was having
> their 50-some-odd anniversary.  I got to thinking about how the hell
> a group formed in Mason, Texas so early, only to find out that it was
> (apparently) started by someone returning home after the War.
>
> My question is - has anyone seen any writing regarding the effect
> that WWII had on the spread of AA?
>
> /rt
> 6/14/88
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

As a life-long practicing Swedenborgian, this has been a topic of great
interest to me even from the time before I joined A.A.  Some of my fellow
alcoholic Swedenborgians see a profound influence of Swedenborgianism on
Bill W.  Personally, I do not.  To me it seems, at best, to have been a
minor influence and quite likely more indirect, through Jung and James,
rather than through any connection via Lois's family.

My basis for saying this is simply the lack of any clear Swedenborgian
influence in anything I've seen that Bill W. wrote.  I am quite familiar
with the church's doctrines and Emanuel Swedenborg's writings.  If they
had had a profound impact on Bill, I would expect him to have wrestled
with a different set of issues than he seemed to.

I don't consider myself an expert on the subject of Swedenborgian
influence on Bill.  I did forward the original post to a Swedenborgian
minister who I know has an interest in this subject, having corresponded
with him not too long ago about Susan Cheever's biography and her
mentions of Swedenborg.  I'm hoping he will respond with something I can
forward to this list.

> P.S.  For those who haven't heard of this group, Emanuel Swedenborg
> (1688-1772) was a Swedish scientist who turned into a mystic and
> visionary in his later years (direct contact with the angels,
> etc.).  He insisted that the spiritual realm was more basic than
> the material realm, and that the Universe had a fundamental
> spiritual structure.  It's a pantheistic system:  everything is
> God, and God is in everything.
>
> Swedenborgianism was one of the ancestors of New Thought (Emmet Fox
> et al.) and similar movements which came later on.  The New
> Jerusalem Church (the group which his followers formed) established
> their first congregation in the United States at Baltimore in 1792,
> and there are still about 40,000 Swedenborgians worldwide.  I've
> seen their place in Boston.

This is a fair summary, except for the allegation that it's a pantheistic
system.  While Swedenborg's writings seem to me to recognize an certain
immanence of god (and not every  -- maybe even very few -- Swedenborgians
would agree with me on that), the primary doctrine Swedenborg taught was
that Jesus Christ is the one and only god of the universe, spiritual and
natural.  He identified Jesus as the incarnation in the natural world of
the Jewish god, Yahweh or Jehovah.

Swedenborg vehemently opposed the division of god into three persons and
the Protestant doctrine of faith alone.  "Faith without works is dead" is
a very Swedenborgian thing to say, but Swedenborg himself averred that
the book of James was *not* a part of the Word of God, i.e. not a
divinely inspired book that belonged in the Christian canon.  His list
included only five books of the New Testament: the four gospels and
Revelation.
--
Hugh H.
Bryn Athyn, PA

               How can you expect to govern a country that
             has two hundred and forty-six kinds of cheese?
                                       -- Charles de Gaulle

Hi RT,

Not much has been written of the effect of WWII on AA.  There is a lot
"between the lines" in *AA comes of Age*.  A current scholar, Rich
Dubiel, who is stydying AA styles in Newfoundland, learned that AA got
to that island only after the war.

But what a great topic fow whoever is going to be revising *Not-God*!
And we had better get to that generation fast

ernie

righteousthug wrote:
>
>
> It's always amazed me at all the 'coincidences' that led to the
> formation and growth of AA.  Bill picking a minister's name off a
> sign in a hotel lobby in Akron, the minister 'knew someone who knew
> someone' with a drinking problem....  Gives me chills every time I
> think about it.
>
> Anyway, it has also struck me how our entry into WWII played such an
> important part in the growth and spread of the Fellowship.  The Big
> Book having been published a scant 2 years before Pearl Harbor,
> Groups formed in England due to our GIs being stationed there, then
> France as we roared across Europe after June 6.  Italy, North Africa,
> the Pacific Theater - all had AA groups formed by GIs.
>
> Perhaps more importantly, WWII was responsible for so many Americans
> moving around the country, seeking employment in war industry
> factories.  California especially was a large recipient of the war
> diaspora because of the aviation industry.
>
> I was at a meeting in Burnet, Texas a coupla years ago, and someone
> announced that the Mason Group (~40 miles down the road) was having
> their 50-some-odd anniversary.  I got to thinking about how the hell
> a group formed in Mason, Texas so early, only to find out that it was
> (apparently) started by someone returning home after the War.
>
> My question is - has anyone seen any writing regarding the effect
> that WWII had on the spread of AA?
>
> /rt
> 6/14/88
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Does anyone know how much a "First Printing " First edition Big Book would be
worth today?

My home group owns one in very good, almost pristine condition & may need to
have it appraised. Any help would be appreciated

Ken W.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Washington Temperance Society

In April 1840, six drinking friends in Baltimore, MD formed the
“Washington Temperance Society” and later became known as the
“Washingtonians.”

They required a pledge of total abstinence and attendance at weekly
meetings where members would relate their stories of drunkenness and
recovery. As a body, they recognized no religion or creed. They were
politically neutral and each member was supposed to help alcoholics
who were still drinking.

Over the following years, Washingtonian membership evolved to consist
primarily of non-alcoholic temperance advocates and a large number of
adolescents who were under age 15.

Their membership reached several hundred thousand but the number of
alcoholics in the mix was likely well under 150,000.

As the membership makeup changed, sentiments shifted away from
reforming (or helping) alcoholics, to pursuing a legal means of
prohibiting alcohol. Washingtonian practices came to be viewed as
outmoded and interest in them faded. There was no sudden or massive
collapse. They simply faded out of existence over time.

Some claim that issues such as Washingtonian involvement in religion,
politics and abolition of slavery led to their downfall. While there
were some incidents of this, there is not much compelling evidence to
support the conclusion that it played any real significant role in the
Washingtonian’s downfall.

The root cause of the Washingtonian’s downfall appears to be their
major departure from their original membership makeup (of all
alcoholics) and their major departure from their original primary
purpose (of one alcoholic trying to help another alcoholic).

It’s a powerful lesson on the importance of AA’s Traditions.

________________________________________
From: WCompWdsUnl@... [mailto:WCompWdsUnl@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:40 AM
To: aahistorylovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Singleness of Purpose


Could anyone provide me with any related history about how the
principle of 
Singleness of Purpose was adopted by the early A.A. members.  Who?
When?  Why?
Under what circumstances?  Were there any members who disagreed, if 
so, why?
etc>

Thank you,

Larry W.
(Atlanta, GA)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Craig,

Below, please find a compilation of posts to AAhistorylovers from the summer of
2003 regarding the topic of ‘Swedenborgian roots in AA’.  Please be aware, you
should search the AAhistorylovers archive during that period, as there may be
additional relevant information in other posts.  These particular posts were of
interest to me, and as a result, they are the only ones I saved.

Regards,
Jeff J

They must be thinking of Lois Wilson as Swedenborgian.  Her grandfather, Nathan
Clark Burnham, was a Swedenborgian minister in Lancaster, PA.  We can assume
that some of this influenced Lois.  The connection is mentioned on page 2 of
"Lois Remembers," published in 1979 by Alanon.

Mel Barger

Lois Wilson's paternal grandfather, Nathan Clarke Burnham, practiced law,
medicine and was also a minister of the Swedenborgian Church. He wrote a book
"Discrete Degrees" about the relation Swedenborg had found between the spiritual
and natural life.

Re the book "Lois Remembers" page 2.

On January 24, 1918 Lois and Bill were married in the Swedeborgian Church in
Brooklyn, NY.

Cheers
Arthur

I wouldn't be surprised if all four of them (Bill W., Lois, Dr. Bob, and Ann)
had read some Swedenborgian material at some point, because they were all
fascinated with unconventional religious movements, spiritualism, and so on --
it's a possibility, but I've never run across any specific references.  Perhaps
someone else in the AAHistoryLovers could come up with a specific reference?

But I wonder if your Swedenborgian chaplain got something a little garbled here,
and left out a step or two in the transmission process.  William James, author
of The Varieties of Religious Experience, had a profound effect on the founders
of A.A. -- we all know that.

William James' father was a Swedenborgian theologian, and I should imagine that
a Swedenborgian would notice many things in The Varieties of Religious
Experience (some of the questions asked, and the kind of data that James was
looking at, and some of the interpretations) that were the product of a
Swedenborgian upbringing.  And the Swedenborgians may still claim William James
as "one of their own," which may have been why the chaplain made that statement.

So it is possible that all that the chaplain was really referring to was the
heavy use which Bill and Bob and Lois and Ann made of The Varieties of Religious
Experience and the ideas of William James.

On the other hand, there may have been more involved -- which would be very
interesting to know -- so I too would be curious to find out if anyone else in
the AAHistoryLovers group knows of any specific references to the Swedenborgians
in the lives (and reading) of Lois or Ann.

                   Glenn Chesnut, Indiana University (South Bend)

P.S.  For those who haven't heard of this group, Emanuel Swedenborg (1688-1772)
was a Swedish scientist who turned into a mystic and visionary in his later
years (direct contact with the angels, etc.).  He insisted that the spiritual
realm was more basic than the material realm, and that the Universe had a
fundamental spiritual structure.  It's a pantheistic system:  everything is God,
and God is in everything.

Swedenborgianism was one of the ancestors of New Thought (Emmet Fox et al.) and
similar movements which came later on.  The New Jerusalem Church (the group
which his followers formed) established their first congregation in the United
States at Baltimore in 1792, and there are still about 40,000 Swedenborgians
worldwide.  I've seen their place in Boston.

courtautomation <courtautomation@...> wrote:

Hi Folks!

Thanks for having this fantastic group!

I am currently researching influences of Emanuel Swedenborg on AA
history. I've heard that Carl Jung was a Swedenborgian, and I am
generally very interested in Carl Jung influences on early and
current AA thinking. Same goes for Willam James.

In "The Soul of Sponsorship" about the friendship of Bill W. and
Father Ed, it mentions that Bill and Lois were married in "Lois's
family's Swedenborgian church," is there any more information about
whether Lois was an active Swedenborgian?

Thanks in advance for the help.

-Craig S.
Alcoholic

Yahoo! Groups Links




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Folks!
Thanks for having this fantastic group!

I am currently researching influences of Emanuel Swedenborg on AA
history. I've heard that Carl Jung was a Swedenborgian, and I am
generally very interested in Carl Jung influences on early and
current AA thinking. Same goes for Willam James.

In "The Soul of Sponsorship" about the friendship of Bill W. and
Father Ed, it mentions that Bill and Lois were married in "Lois's
family's Swedenborgian church," is there any more information about
whether Lois was an active Swedenborgian?

Thanks in advance for the help.

-Craig S.
Alcoholic

Could anyone provide me with any related history about how the principle of
Singleness of Purpose was adopted by the early A.A. members.  Who? When?  Why?
Under what circumstances?  Were there any members who disagreed, if  so, why?
etc>

Thank you,

Larry W.
(Atlanta, GA)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Keith

From the information I have (see below). it shows 20,000 copies for
the 8th printing. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this figure and
am uncomfortable with it. Plus the number you cite (5,000 copies)
seems much more consistent with the trend of the war years
mobilization period from 1941 thru 1943.

AA membership exploded after the War. I have a table that contains
figures on the number of Big Books distributed over the years but very
little info on the printings.

Printings of Alcoholics Anonymous First Editions

1st - Apr 1939, 4,730 Printed, Red Binding
2nd - Mar 1941, 5,000 Printed, Blue Binding
3rd - Jun 1942, 5,000 Printed, Light Blue Binding
4th - Mar 1943, 3,500 Printed, Green Binding
5th - Jan 1944, 5,000 Printed, Blue Binding
6th - Jun 1944, 5,000 Printed, Blue Binding
7th - Jan 1945, 5,000 Printed, Blue Binding
8th - Feb 1945,20,000 Printed, Blue Binding
9th - Jan 1946, 20,000 Printed, Blue Binding
10th - Aug 1946, 25,000 Printed, Blue Binding
11th - Jun 1947, 25,000 Printed, Blue Binding
12th - 25000 Printed, Blue Binding
13th - 50,000 Printed, Blue Binding
14th - 50,000 Printed, Blue Binding
15th, - 50,000 Printed, Blue Binding
16th - 50,000 Printed, Blue Binding
   _____

From: Keith Dunn [mailto:werdunn_99@...]
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 8:23 PM
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] 1st Edition, 7th printing

Greetings.  I need some help with some Big book printing history.
The 7th printing of the 1st edition of the Big Book shows a printing
date of Jan. 1945, with a nominal run of 5000.

The eighth printing shows a run of 10,000 1 month later.  My experience suggests
there are fewer 7th printing survivors than any other of the 16
printings.  I have heard the stories of the warehouse fire in NY, of
the boat sinking carrying a shipment to Australia, and am aware of
the book and movie "The Lost Weekend," and how this stimulated
demand from spouses interested in sobering up their partners, but
the partners weren't ready, and hence disposed of the books. The
book came out in 1944, and the movie in 1945.

But, taking into account WWII, limitations to paper due to the war, and the fact
that the 8th printing followed 1 month later, this suggests to me the 7th
printing probably wasn't a 5000 copy run, but something smaller, and the
resources were funnelled into the 8th printing, to provide more books (and
profits) for AA, and allowed the printer and AA to stay within government
guidelines.

Any suggestions as to where to go for information, or does anyone have any
feedback on this?

Love and Service, Keith D













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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Friends,

   In "On the Tail of a Comet," Garth Lean's splendid biography of Frank Buchman,
there's a mention on page 140 of McGhee Baxter, who is described as an alcoholic
whom Buchman had helped.  Baxter resumed drinking, however, and was apparently
quite a problem for the Oxford Group team that went to South Africa in 1929.  He
was reportedly pursuing Eleanor Forde in the hope of marrying her, but she
wisely resisted his charms!

   McGhee later was in Richmond, Virginia, and was one of the early AA members
there.  In "Pass It On," pp. 170-173, Bill Wilson explains to a Richmond member
why AA separated from the Oxford Group.  Though not mentioned in the book, the
Richmond member was McGhee Baxter.  McGhee also may have lived for a time in
Weaverville, N.C.

   Eleanor Forde later married Jim Newton, who was responsible for carrying the
O.G. message to "Bud" Firestone in Akron, thus starting a chain of events that
resulted in the 1933 Oxford Group rally that brought in several people who would
help Dr. Bob and the early Akron AA members.  Some years ago, I spent a pleasant
afternoon in Ft. Myers Beach with Jim and Ellie Newton.  They remembered McGhee
fondly and were delighted to hear that he may have found sobriety in AA.

   Does anybody have any information about McGhee and how he fared in AA?  He was
obviously a very conscientious and devoted AA member at the time he wrote to
Bill.  The Newtons have passed on (Ellie lived to be 103), but it would still be
interesting to know how things worked out for McGhee.

   McGhee also appears to have been an Oxford Group member who made an early
transition into AA.  Nell Wing did some research and concluded that quite a few
O.G. members found their way into AA.
Mel Barger




~~~~~~~~
Mel Barger
melb@...




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings everyone,

Regarding Jane's recent question about deaf AA members, this isn't much but
it might be helpful. The information is from Bob P.'s unpublished material
(from the section on Special Purpose groups in AA):

     * The first group of AA for deaf and hearing impaired members was formed
in Los Angeles in 1962.

     * In 1985 the AA General Service Office listed over a hundred groups and
contacts for deaf members.

Perhaps the Los Angeles Central Office could put you in touch with someone
who knows more about the history of this first group, or the archivist at
the General Service Office.

Regards, -- Audrey in California


Message: 3
    Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:29:11 EST
    From: DeafAA@...
Subject: History


Hello

I am wondering if there were any deaf people attending AA meetings during
the early 1940's? Or.. Did the deaf people meet Bill W or Dr. Bob during
1940's or 1950's???

Jane

It's always amazed me at all the 'coincidences' that led to the
formation and growth of AA.  Bill picking a minister's name off a
sign in a hotel lobby in Akron, the minister 'knew someone who knew
someone' with a drinking problem....  Gives me chills every time I
think about it.

Anyway, it has also struck me how our entry into WWII played such an
important part in the growth and spread of the Fellowship.  The Big
Book having been published a scant 2 years before Pearl Harbor,
Groups formed in England due to our GIs being stationed there, then
France as we roared across Europe after June 6.  Italy, North Africa,
the Pacific Theater - all had AA groups formed by GIs.

Perhaps more importantly, WWII was responsible for so many Americans
moving around the country, seeking employment in war industry
factories.  California especially was a large recipient of the war
diaspora because of the aviation industry.

I was at a meeting in Burnet, Texas a coupla years ago, and someone
announced that the Mason Group (~40 miles down the road) was having
their 50-some-odd anniversary.  I got to thinking about how the hell
a group formed in Mason, Texas so early, only to find out that it was
(apparently) started by someone returning home after the War.

My question is - has anyone seen any writing regarding the effect
that WWII had on the spread of AA?

/rt
6/14/88

Greetings.  I need some help with some Big book printing history.
The 7th printing of the 1st edition of the Big Book shows a printing
date of Jan. 1945, with a nominal run of 5000.  The eighth printing
shows a run of 10,000 1 month later.  My experience suggests there
are fewer 7th printing survivors than any other of the 16
printings.  I have heard the stories of the warehouse fire in NY, of
the boat sinking carrying a shipment to Australia, and am aware of
the book and movie "The Lost Weekend," and how this stimulated
demand from spouses interested in sobering up their partners, but
the partners weren't ready, and hence disposed of the books. The
book came out in 1944, and the movie in 1945.  But, taking into
account WWII, limitations to paper due to the war, and the fact that
the 8th printing followed 1 month later, this suggests to me the 7th
printing probably wasn't a 5000 copy run, but something smaller, and
the resources were funnelled into the 8th printing, to provide more
books (and profits) for AA, and allowed the printer and AA to stay
within government guidelines.  Any suggestions as to where to go for
information, or does anyone have any feedback on this?
Love and Service, Keith D

*****
Art, feel free to respond directly, and forward this to anyone who
can be of help.  I didn't know if protocol dictated I send this
straight to the "group", or if I could send it to some archivists
directly.  I am aware this is pretty "deep." I've done a lot of
research in the archive arena, and have few resources in Nebraska.
Thanks for your help.

"Rarely - or Never?"

How co-founder Bill Wilson answered a frequently asked question.

The AA Grapevine, December 1978

From time to time over the years, some AA members will question the wording
of the first sentence of Chapter 5 of Alcoholics Anonymous: "Rarely have we
seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path." Why, the
enthusiastic member asks, doesn't the Big Book say, "Never have we seen a
person fail..."?

This question was answered - several times - by an AA well qualified to
speak on the subject, since he wrote the book, with the assistance of other
early members.

Bill Wilson, AA's co-founder, answered a 1961 letter from Minnesota with
these words (preserved, like those of the following letter, in the archives
at the AA General Service Office): "Concerning your comment about the use of
the word 'rarely" in Chapter 5 of the Big Book: My recollection is that we
did give this considerable thought at the time of writing. I think the main
reason for the use of the word 'rarely' was to avoid anything that would
look like a claim of a 100% result. Assuming, of course, that an alcoholic
is willing enough and sane enough, there can be a perfect score on [a person
of this sort]. But since willingness and sanity are such elusive and
fluctuating values, we simply didn't want to be too positive. The medical
profession could jump right down our throats.

"Then, too, we have seen people who have apparently tried their very best,
and then failed, not because of unwillingness, but perhaps by reason of
physical tension or some undisclosed quirk, not known to them or anyone
else. Neither did we want to over encourage relatives and friends in the
supposition that their dear ones could surely get well in AA if only they
were willing. I think that's why we chose that word. I remember thinking
about it a lot.

"Maybe some of these same reasons would apply to present conditions. Anyhow,
I do know this: The text of the AA book is so frozen in the minds of tens of
thousands of AA’s that even the slightest change creates an uproar."

*************************

In 1967, Bill made the following reply to a Florida member asking the same
question: "Respecting my use of the word 'rarely,' I think it was chosen
because it did not express an absolute state of affairs, such as 'never'
does. Anyhow, we are certainly stuck with the word 'rarely.' My few efforts
to change the wording of the AA book have always come to naught - the
protests are always too many."

*************************

And at the 1970 General Service Conference, this Ask-It-Basket question was
addressed directly to Bill: "If there was any change you would make in the
Big Book, would it be to change the word 'rarely' to 'never' at the start of
Chapter 5.

Bill answered, "No."

Just Love,
Barefoot Bill

   -----Original Message-----
   From: Robert Stonebraker [mailto:rstonebraker212@...]
   Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 11:43 AM
   To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] change ? to BB text

   Pages 200, "Pass It On" states:   (According to an apocryphal story, Bill
   was asked in later years whether there was any change he wished he could
   have made in the Big Book, and he replied he would change "rarely" to
   "never." .    Bill himself said he never considered that change.)

   And

   On page 245 of "Not God,"   by E. Kurtz, Bill states in a 1961 letter:  "I
   think the main reason for the use of the word "rarely" was to avoid
anything
   that would look like a claim of 100% result."

   Bob S.

   -----Original Message-----
   From: J. Carey Thomas [mailto:jct3@...]
   Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 2:37 PM
   To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] change ? to BB text

   Folks,
           Can anyone verify that Bill W. has ever said "The only word I
   would change is 'rarely' (to 'Never') at the start of the fifth chapter"
   -- or words to that effect?
                   _\|/_
                   (o  o)
   -----------o00-(_)-00o-----------carey----------

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Articles and essays from the Hindsfoot Foundation webpage have been appearing in
the AAHistoryLovers for quite some time. They have been on topics like early AA
prison groups, early black AA leaders, the role of the Upper Room in helping
shape the spirituality of the Big Book, the authors of Twenty-Four Hours a Day
and The Little Red Book, and so on.

It has been decided to discontinue doing this, because the way AAHistoryLovers
messages have to be posted, it is difficult to format many of the articles so
that they can be read easily, and even more important, it is impossible to
include photos of first editions and people and places.

If however you would like to continue to read them when they come out, could you
please send us an email at "hfaabooks" hyphen "mail" at "yahoo" dot "com":

hfaabooks-mail@...

If this link doesn't work, click on this link instead --
http://hindsfoot.org/hfaabooks.html -- and then click on the email address given
on that page.

Every month or so, when a new article or essay comes out, an email will be sent
to your address giving the title of the piece and a link which you can click on
if you want to read it.

If later on you decide that you don't want these notices coming, just let us
know at the same email address, and we'll remove you from the list immediately.
(This is just a little private sub-account in the e-mail system we use for
corresponding with authors when we are editing their books. It's handy for this
purpose because there is a button we can click in that separate address folder
and send the same email to a number of people simultaneously.)

Or you can just check the Hindsfoot Foundation site itself every once in a
while:

http://hindsfoot.org/

This address takes you to the home page. At the bottom of that page, there is an
index of all the articles and essays arranged in reverse chronological order.
The ones at the top of the list are the ones which have appeared most recently.

Thanks,

Glenn Chesnut (South Bend, Indiana)







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The 1st edition

In November 1937, Bill and Dr Bob met in Akron. Bill had ideas for a
chain of hospitals, paid missionaries and a book of experience to
carry the message to distant places. His ideas passed by 2 votes among
18 members (1 vote actually made the difference).

Up to December 1938, the recovery program was made up of 6 Steps
(passed on to new members by word of mouth). Bill changed this to 12
written Steps to add clarity and close loopholes the alcoholics were
wiggling through. Differing versions of the 6 Steps are listed in “The
Language of the Heart,” “AA Comes of Age,” “Pass It On” and the Big
Book Pioneer story “He Sold Himself Short."

In March 1939, a heavily edited manuscript was turned over to Tom
Uzzell, an editor at Collier’s and a member of the NYU faculty. The
manuscript was variously estimated as 600 to 800 pages. Uzzell reduced
it to 400 pages. Most cuts came from the stories.

On April 4, 1939, 4,730 copies of the 1st edition of “Alcoholics
Anonymous” were published at $3.50 a copy ($46 a copy today). The
printer was told to use the thickest paper in his shop. The large,
bulky volume became known as the “Big Book” and the name has stuck
ever since. The idea behind the thick and large paper was to convince
the alcoholics they were getting their money’s worth.

Despite many assertions to the contrary, the Big Book does not
"precisely" (in the sense of "exactly") describe the recovery program
used by the first 100 members. The book actually transformed the 6
Step recovery program then used into something quite different. In the
literary sense "precisely" simply means "short and to the point."

The page numbering of the 1st edition basic text was from 1 to 179
(not 164). “The Doctor's Opinion” was originally page 1. “Bill's
Story” did not become page 1 until the 2nd edition.

In March 1941, the wording of Step 12 was changed in the 2nd printing
of the 1st edition. The term “spiritual experience” was changed to
“spiritual awakening” and “as the result of these steps” was changed
to “as the result of those steps.” The appendix “Spiritual Experience”
was added. Many members thought they had to have a sudden, spectacular
spiritual experience like the one Bill had in Towns Hospital. The
changes emphasized that most spiritual experiences were of the type
that the psychologist William James called the “educational variety.”

The 2nd edition

In April 1952, based on a 1951 advisory action, the Board formed a
special committee on literature and made a report to the 1952
Conference. The Board recommended literature items that should be
retained and future items that would be needed. Bill W also reported
on the literature projects he was engaged in. One of them included
updating the story section of the Big Book.

The Conference unanimously approved the Board proposals and Bill's
projects. This led to Conference-approval of the 2nd edition and
retroactive approval of the 1st edition and several pamphlets.

In 1955, AA’s 20th anniversary and 2nd International Convention
occurred in St Louis, MO. AA came of age. The General Service
Conference became the Guardian of the Traditions and group conscience
of the entire Fellowship. The 2nd edition Big Book was also published.
30 new personal stories were introduced.

In 1956, the wording of Step 12 changed again in the 2nd printing of
the 2nd edition. The term “as the result of those steps” was restored
to “as the result of these steps.”

The 3rd edition

The 1976 Conference approved the 3rd edition.

300,000 copies of the 1st edition were distributed from 1939 to 1955.
1,150,000 copies of the 2nd edition were distributed from 1955 to
1976. 19,550,000 copies of the 3rd edition were distributed from 1976
to 2002. Distribution reached the 1 million mark in 1973 and the 22
million mark in 2001.

4th edition

The 2002 Conference approved the 4th edition. More than 3,000,000
copies of it have been distributed so far. Big Book distribution
surpassed 25 million copies in January 2005.

Changes to the basic text

Contrary to popular belief, many wording changes have been made to the
“basic text.” In the 11th printing of the 1st edition, the term
"ex-alcoholic" was replaced by "ex-problem drinker" or "non-drinker."

Other changes updated numerical values to show growth (e.g. "scores"
changed to "hundreds" changed to "thousands" etc). Also, foot notes
were added. Several web sites have tables detailing all the wording
changes from edition to edition.

The sentiments of the membership

The basic text is "protected" from radical change by the prevailing
sentiment of the entire AA Fellowship. Changes can be made by
Conference advisory action but it’s doubtful they would get very far.

As early as the 2nd edition (1955) Bill W sensed that the Fellowship
was resistant to changing the basic text. The inside flap of the 2nd
edition dust jacket states "Of course, the basic text itself, page 1
to page 165 [sic] remains substantially unchanged. To the minds of
most AAs, this should stand as first written."

The foreword to the 3rd edition probably best describes it with the
statement "Because this book has become the basic text for our Society
and has helped such large numbers of alcoholic men and women to
recovery, there exists a sentiment against any radical changes being
made to it. Therefore, the first portion of this volume, describing
the AA recovery program, has been left untouched in the course of
revisions made for both the second and third editions."

Several Conference advisory actions for the 4th edition reaffirmed
that no changes were to be made to the forewords, basic text,
appendices and “Dr. Bob's Nightmare." They were to remain "as is."

Cheers
Arthur

Hi Jane,

I doubt that you will find the exact information you seek (unless
someone else on this listserv knows it) but there is a wealth of general
information at http://www.dhh12s.com/index.htm  Not much history, I'm
afraid, but I am often amazed at what I find browsing such pages.

ernie

DeafAA@... wrote:

>
> Hello
>
> I am wondering if there were any deaf people attending AA meetings
> during the early 1940's? Or.. Did the deaf people meet Bill W or Dr. Bob
> during  1940's or 1950's???
>
> Jane
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
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An Advisory Action by the 1995 General Service Conference authorized work on a
Fourth Edition of the Big Book. It repeated previous decisions that the first
164 pages, the\Prefaces, the Prologues, "The Doctor's Opinion," "Dr. Bob's
Nightmarem" ane the Appendices remain as is.

The area delegates to the General Service Conference are from the United States
and Canada. Certainly they considered the needs of alcoholics in other countries
and those who were incarcerated (total estimate of 1,922,269) but they directly
represented the group conscience of 1,251,192 A.A. members that year.

Hello

I am wondering if there were any deaf people attending AA meetings during the
early 1940's? Or.. Did the deaf people meet Bill W or Dr. Bob during  1940's or
1950's???

Jane

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pages 200, "Pass It On" states:   (According to an apocryphal story, Bill
was asked in later years whether there was any change he wished he could
have made in the Big Book, and he replied he would change "rarely" to
"never." .    Bill himself said he never considered that change.)

And

On page 245 of "Not God,"   by E. Kurtz, Bill states in a 1961 letter:  "I
think the main reason for the use of the word "rarely" was to avoid anything
that would look like a claim of 100% result."

Bob S.




-----Original Message-----
From: J. Carey Thomas [mailto:jct3@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 2:37 PM
To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] change ? to BB text


Folks,
         Can anyone verify that Bill W. has ever said "The only word I
would change is 'rarely' (to 'Never') at the start of the fifth chapter"
-- or words to that effect?
                 _\|/_
                 (o  o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-----------carey----------







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