"There but for the Grace of God [goes old John Bradford]" is the first use I
know (1550?) of the phrase in English -- said, by a former paymaster of the
King's forces at Calais who had embezzled funds (possibly for drinking), but
been converted by Hugh Latimer and made amends and restitution, on seeing
another embezzler of the King's funds being taken away to execution. There is
no particular question of predestination, nor is the phrase peculiar to
alcoholics -- in fact it was popularized long before the word "alcoholic"
existed. It refers quite simply to the fact that we (whoever we may be) don't
recover (from any sin or sickness) by our own unaided efforts -- and I'm not
sure that should be contentious in A.A., or elsewhere.

> To: aahistorylovers@yahoogroups.com
> From: jennylaurie1@...
> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:46:39 +0000
> Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] RE: "Powerless over people places things"
>
>
> Among the plethora of ideas discussed by our pioneers - for example,
establishing "AA" hospitals - about the only one to survive was the decision to
publish the Big Book. Early members were aware that the message could be
diluted, distorted and misrepresented when passed on orally. The slogans which
adorn the walls at so many AA meetings are not Conference-approved; though three
of them appear at the end of chapter nine in the Big Book, viz: First Things
First; Live and Let Live; Easy Does It. One slogan - There but for the grace of
God - is contentious, suggesting as it does that some alcoholics are chosen for
salvation and others condemned. Likewise, the Serenity Prayer is not
Conference-approved, though undoubtedly an established part of our oral
tradition. So, unless tested by the Fellowship's group conscience as expressed
at Conference, expressions heard at meetings, like e.g. Keep it simple stupid,
should be taken with a pinch of salt. Some are more helpful than others; some
are contrary to our tradition, e.g. "It (addiction) is all the same illness."
>
> Laurie A.
>
>
> To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
> From: jdf10487@...
> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:36:02 -0700
> Subject: Re: [AAHistoryLovers] RE: "Powerless over people places things"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> AA has a rich oral tradition which includes many sayings, slogans and common
expressions.
>
> Some of these expressions can be found in the AA literature and others can't.
Regardless of that fact, these saying and slogans are as much a part of
authentic AA History as the coffee pot. AA is as AA does, and AA does use
sayings and slogans. It always has and I believe that it always will.
>
> Sincerely, Jim F.
>
> --- On Wed, 6/24/09, johnlawlee@... <johnlawlee@...> wrote:
>
> From: johnlawlee@... <johnlawlee@...>
> Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] RE: "Powerless over people places things"
> To: AAHistoryLovers@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 4:56 AM
>
> The topic is "powerless over people, places and things", wnich cliche is
absent from the basic literature of AA, NA and Al-Anon. The topic is not
"people, places and things." According to the Unofficial Big Book Search
Engine, the word "people" is found on 78 pages of the basic text. "People"
isn't the topic either. You won't find the cliche "powerless over people places
things" in the basic literature of AA. You won't find it in the basic literature
of NA or Al-Anon either. You won't locate the recommendation "avoid people
places and things" in the basic literature of those three fellowships, although
that nugget is heard frequently in rehabs, AA meetings and NA meeetings. You'll
hear the chanting of "keep coming back" at virtually every AA meeting, but
that's not in the basic text of AA either. I don't believe you'll find it in the
Bigger Book either [the one with the black cover and ribbon]. Christ never
said, "Keep coming back." He
> said, "Heal the sick...Freely have you received, freely give." In AA we
carry the message to those who still suffer.
> Pass it on.
> John Lee
> Pittsburgh
>
> --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Robert Stonebraker <rstonebraker212@ comcast.net> wrote:
>
> From: Robert Stonebraker <rstonebraker212@ comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things"
> To: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 5:50 PM
>
> The inquiry comes from the previous message concerning the validity of page
> Dr. Paul's quote from page 417.
>
> The answer:
>
> The stories in the second section of the book are not considered as the
> clear cut directions. Please read page 29: "Further on clear cut directions
> are given showing how we recovered. These are followed by forty-two
> personal experiences. "
>
> The personal experiences are not the clear cut directions.
>
> Bob S.
>
> www.4dgroups. org
>
> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========
>
> From: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com
> [mailto:AAHistoryLo vers@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bridgetsbuddy
> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:39 AM
> To: AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com
> Subject: [AAHistoryLovers] Re: "People places things"
>
> What about this one? "When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person,
> place, thing, or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me,
> and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or
> situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment."
> ("Acceptance was the Answer," BB, 4th Ed., p.417) No?
>
> --- In AAHistoryLovers@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:AAHistoryLo vers%40yahoogrou ps.com> , Jon Markle <serenitylodge@ ...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Where does the concept of powerlessness over "people, places and
> > things" come from?
> >
> > Hugs for the trudge.
> >
> > Jon (Raleigh)
> > 9/9/82
> >
> > "The violets in the mountains have broken the rocks." (Tennessee
> > Williams)
> >
> > "Hope is the feeling we have that the feeling we have is not
> > permanent." (M.McLaughlin)
> >
> > "You know, I occasionally watch those preachers on the Christian TV
> > stations. I always think to myself: How can I believe your theology
> > when I can't believe your hair?" (Patricia Clarkson)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
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