I just received this. Thought it was inter-
esting. This is a good example of why the
12 Traditions were necessary.

- - - -

Patti <paks68@...>
(paks68 at optonline.net) wrote:

Here is the story about Irma Livoni that some
of you asked about. Each year around this time
I try to tell this true story about what
happened not just on Dec 7th 1941 (Pearl
Harbor Day) but what happened to one of the
few women who was in AA at that time, and about
a letter she received in the mail, on Monday,
December 8th, which virtually kicked her out
of AA. This is a long email, so read it
when/if you have the time.

In Dec of 1984, I had been sober for 2-1/2
years, and working with my sponsors Bob and
Sybil Corwin since Jan of 84. Sybil had
gotten sober in March of 1941, so at the time
she was 43 yrs sober. We were driving home
from a meeting and she asked me the date
(to her it was just Sunday). I told her it
was Dec 8th, and that yesterday (Dec 7th) was
the anniversary of Pearl Harbor Day.

She said "Matt, have I ever told you about
Irma Livoni?"

"Nope, who is she?"

She said, "Well, when we get back to the
house, come in for coffee and I’ll tell you
a story about AA history and some of the
reasons we have tradition 3. Oh, and by the
way Matt, did you know that the literature
specifically protects 'queers, plain crackpots,
and fallen women,' and since you and I are at
least two out of those three, we should be
especially grateful for tradition 3? I'll
show you it when we get home."

I laughed out loud, as Sybil had a great sense
of humor, and she had been a taxi dancer,
back before she got sober, you know one of
those "10 cents a dance" ladies, and she was
divorced twice, and was a single mom, as well
as an alcoholic back then, so the term "fallen
woman" was something that hit close to home.

She had told me that it was very different
back in the 30's and 40's for a woman to be
an alcoholic. Sybil said It was a time when
women wore hats and gloves, and "respectable
women" were not usually found in a bar, or
at "whoopie parties."

Our Thursday night step study had voted to
not cover the traditions after we got to
step 12, so I figured they must not be very
important and thought I’d probably be bored
with the conversation, but she got my attention
telling me that "queers, crackpots and fallen
women" were mentioned, so I agreed to come in
for coffee.

Besides Sybil had been sober longer than I
had been alive. I didn't argue with her very
much.

Sybil got down her copy of the big book. She
said, I want you to find the traditions in
there, and read me tradition 3. It was a 1st
edition Big Book. Thicker than mine.

I said, "Is this why they call it the Big
Book?"

She said, "exactly, Bill had it printed on
big paper, with big margins around the type,
so that people would think they were really
getting something for their money."

I looked in the back of the book, where I
thought the traditions were, but couldn't
find them. "I can’t find them, Sybil."

"Exactly. That's because we didn't have any
traditions back in 1941 when I came in. And
Matt, AA was in mortal danger of destroying
itself, which is why we have traditions now."
Then she had me find them in my 3rd edition
and in my 12 & 12. I didn't read it all,
just the caption heading, and then she started
telling me the story of IRMA LIVONI.

Irma was a sponsee of Sybil's. She also
became a member in 1941, just after Sybil.
Sybil took her into her home. (Sybil told me
that many people's bottoms were very low then,
no home, no job, no watch, no car, nothing).
Sybil said it was different then for a woman
to be an alcoholic. That most of them had
burned all their bridges with their families,
and were looked down upon, even more so than
male alcoholics. Sybil said she watched AA
help Irma get sober, watched AA help Irma get
cleaned up, watched AA help Irma get her first
job in sobriety, and watched AA help Irma get
her first apartment in sobriety.

Then she said that on Dec 5th, 1941 a self-
appointed group of the members signed a letter
to Irma & mailed it 2 days before Pearl Harbor,
on that Friday, Dec 5th. Here is a copy of
the letter:

-------------------------

ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS
Post Office Box 607
Hollywood Station
Hollywood, California

December Fifth 1941

Irma Livoni
939 S. Gramercy Place
Los Angeles, California

Dear Mrs. Livoni:

At a meeting of the Executive Committee of the
Los Angeles Group of Alcoholics Anonymous,
held Dec. 4th, 1941, it was decided that your
attendance at group meetings was no longer
desired until certain explanations and plans
for the future were made to the satisfaction
of this committee. This action has been taken
for reasons which should be most apparent to
yourself. It was decided that, should you so
desire, you may appear before members of this
committee and state your attitude. This oppor-
tunity will be afforded you between now and
December 15th, 1941. You may communicate with
us at the above address by that date.

In case you do not wish to appear, we shall
consider the matter closed and that your
membership is terminated.

Alcoholics Anonymous, Los Angeles Group
Mortimer, Frank, Edmund, Fay D., Pete, Al

-------------------------

I was stunned. "How could they do this,
Sybil?"

"Because we didn't have any guidelines,
any traditions to protect us from good
intentions. AA was very new, and people
did all sorts of things, thinking they were
protecting the fellowship."

Sybil then said to close my eyes and imagine
my being in the following setting. Sybil
explained that Dec 7th, 1941 was Pearl Harbor
Day (a Sunday). She said that that Sunday
night everyone in LA was afraid that Los
Angeles would also be attacked and bombed.
There was a citywide blackout, people were so
terrified. She said that on Monday Dec 8th,
President Rosevelt gave the speech that
talked about "the date that will live in
infamy" and that we were now at war with
Japan and Germany.

She said, that was the day that Irma
received her letter. There was only one
meeting in the entire state of California
when Sybil came in, in 1941. By December
there may have been two or three, but Irma
had nowhere else to go, no one else to turn
to. No other Group in California that she
could ask for help.

Sybil said, "Imagine only one or two meetings
in your entire state, and being shunned by
your family, and by society, and by the
only group of people who were on your side,
your AA group. Imagine them shutting the door
on you and sending you such a letter, Matt."

I shivered at the thought of it. It was
Christmas time, the stores were decorated
and now poor Irma was all alone.

I thought about how it was in 1984 with
2000 meetings a week to choose from in
Southern California. and then I imagined
having no other help for a hopeless
alcoholic.

Sybil told me that Irma never came back to
another meeting, left AA and died of alcoholism.
She wrote to Bill about the incident, and I
cannot tell you that this is the reason that
the following is a part of the 3rd Tradition,
but it certainly seems to apply.

From Tradition 3, page 141:

-------------------------

... that we would neither punish nor deprive
any AA of membership, that we must never
compel anyone to pay anything, believe
anything, or conform to anything? The answer,
now seen in Tradition Three, was simplicity
itself. At last experience taught us that to
take away any alcoholic's full chance was
sometimes to pronounce his death sentence,
and often to condem him to endless misery.
Who dared to be judge, jury and executioner
of his own sick brother?"

-------------------------

JUDGE JURY AND EXECUTIONER

I remember looking at those words again and
again, and they seemed to get larger and
larger.

JUDGE JURY AND EXECUTIONER

JUDGE JURY AND EXECUTIONER

JUDGE JURY AND EXECUTIONER

I hadn't really noticed EXECUTIONER when I
had read it the first time at my 12 & 12
study group. Again I felt so bad for this
poor lady. Wow, those words really had a
different meaning than when I had read the
traditions before. So here it is, 23 years
later, and each December 7th & 8th, I always
think about Irma Livoni, and how lucky I am,
that we have traditions now. I also think of
how lucky I was to have met Sybil and so
lucky that she appointed herself my sponsor.

Years later I realized how everything she ever
taught me was like gold. But in 1984 I had no
idea who Sybil really was or how lucky I was
to have her as my sponsor. She was like a
piece of living history, but I really didn't
realize how valuable that was in explaining
WHY we do some of the things we do (like the
story she told me about how they never said
"Hi Sybil" and no one said "Hi my name is
Matt and I'm an alcoholic" back then).

Besides being one of the first women in AA,
Sybil was the first woman west of the Nissis-
sippi. She also became the head of LA's
central office for 12 years, and she became
close friends with Bill and Lois. She and
Bob even used to go on vacation with them.
She used to tell me all sorts of stories
about Bill Wilson and things he said to her.

He was very interested in how AA would work
for women, as there were very few women
worldwide in AA back in 1941. Marty Mann
came in before Sybil did, but very few
stayed sober.

I learned that night that no one can get kicked
out of AA. We can ask a disturbing wet drunk
that he needs to settle down or we might have
to ask him to step outside for that day, but
we don't vote to kick anyone out forever. And
we don't shun people because our guidelines,
our traditions tell us that no one has to
believe in anything (they don't have to be
like me) and they don't have to conform to
anything(they don't have to dress a certain
way, or have no facial hair, or pay anything).
Even if I get drunk again, I am still welcome
at any AA meeting.

So that's the story about Irma Livoni. Feel
free to pass this along to anyone you know
who might be interested in knowing a bit about
how and why the traditions got started. I
think it sort of puts a face on tradition 3:
the face of a woman I never knew, who got
kicked out of AA. Who got drunk and died.

Thank God for Tradition 3, and thank God for
all of you. I truly appreciate and cherish
all the people in this group.

Best AA love to you all.


"God hasn't promised us tomorrow,
but he has promised us eternity."